Things I'm looking forward to in a new edition;


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Dark Archive

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Elves of Golarion 2.0.

Elves have long been a favorite of mine, and what Golarion has done with them (elves are from another planet!) is pretty darn unique and fun. But Elves of Golarion was one of the first of those little companions, and, gosh, it shows.

Yes, I would LOVE for 1st edition to have gone on long enough to see that line dig way past the core races and Kobolds and Orcs to Tengu of Golarion and Gnolls of Golarion and Lizardfolk of Golarion, but I accept that this is not to be, and look forward instead to a much better Elves of Golarion, with more juicy detail on Snowcaster Elves and Mordant Spire Elves and Ekuje Elves and Aquatic Elves and maybe even some teasy hints about the Elves of Castrovel.


Set wrote:

Elves of Golarion 2.0.

Elves have long been a favorite of mine, and what Golarion has done with them (elves are from another planet!) is pretty darn unique and fun. But Elves of Golarion was one of the first of those little companions, and, gosh, it shows.

Yes, I would LOVE for 1st edition to have gone on long enough to see that line dig way past the core races and Kobolds and Orcs to Tengu of Golarion and Gnolls of Golarion and Lizardfolk of Golarion, but I accept that this is not to be, and look forward instead to a much better Elves of Golarion, with more juicy detail on Snowcaster Elves and Mordant Spire Elves and Ekuje Elves and Aquatic Elves and maybe even some teasy hints about the Elves of Castrovel.

That is a book that could use some updating for sure. But I'm not sure how it'd fit into the new book lines. They're no longer doing the Player Companion books from what I understand. I think all books will just be the base rulebook line and the hardback World Guide line. And there are fewer books a year, I think the World Guide line is basically quarterly. So it'd probably be a bit more than just elves. It could be a part of a book dedicated to several ancestries. Like say do one book for Elves Gnomes and Halflings together or something. But big hardbacks dedicated to individual ancestries could be kind of cool. Everything You Wanted to Know About Elves, but Were Afraid to Ask.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Doktor Weasel wrote:
... Everything You Wanted to Know About Elves, but Were Afraid to Ask.

"Why do you have so big ears?" *snicker*

Yeah, what the doc says: fewer, bigger books, covering more ground.

LOWG1 is 'regions', but doesn't seem to delve too deep into the various regional variants of ancestries.

LOWG2 seems to be 'ancestries' with new playable ancestries. Could very well be that you get some of that elf-love in that one.

LOWG3 was talked about, I think it was 'gods'.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm so excited to see new classes and archetypes brought to the table- as well as a tonne of new ancestries, perhaps delving into the downright monstrous!


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm excited about so many things, both as a GM and as a player.

As a player, I think what I'm most excited about right now is the caster/caster multiclassing options.

As a GM, I'm most excited about not having to hand-hold to make sure players don't drop off in combat relevance just because they're not as familiar with the game as me.


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Yeah, it'll be nice to see some of the new stuff for ancestries when that comes out. A lot of cool stuff about them is kind of scattered around, hidden in corners, and it'll be great to see it brought front and center.

As a player, there are about half a dozen characters I'm interested in building. Several classes can now trade out features I wanted to get rid of that I never found a good archetype for. And the new multiclassing is so flexible I'm... actually most excited to not plan multiclassing, just jumping on it if something justifies it in game.

From the other side of the screen, I'm really stoked for the new monsters (and NPCs). The designs got opened up to do a lot more flavorful stuff and, between that and the new action economy, they were just super fun to run during the Playtest.

And, for both, high-level play. Not even the rocket tag thing, we mostly have that under control. I'm actually looking forward to skills staying roughly even over the levels (directly because of proficiency and through Follow the Expert). Because a lot of the fun skill stuff that happens at early levels, even just sneaking the party past an obstacle, really broke down as you get 15+ points of modifier between characters. And those non-combat solutions are some of my favorite parts of the game.

Cheers!
Landon

Liberty's Edge

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I'm looking forward to homebrewing an Eberron conversion. The new rules for ancestries are going to make so many things so much easier.


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Player: The way Archetypes and multiclassing works. The fact that when a new archetype comes out (with the exception of 'class archetypes') it'll be available for pretty much every class. And with the ease of multiclassing, any new content is also mostly available to everyone. A new LVL 4 Fighter feat is a LVL 8 feat for anyone else willing to multi into it. Personally I love that.

GM: 3 Action System, the simplicity of explaining the new system to new players. And personally, the monsters. Not having to keep track of every specific feat a monster has, and instead just look at a list of options they have at their disposal is amazing.

Both a player and GM: The fact that AoO isn't universal and just reactions in general. If you or a creature have reactions, it now becomes a game of "do i use this reaction, or save it so i can do this". Shield Block Vs Attack of Opportunity, ect.

Dark Archive

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xNellynelx wrote:
Player: The way Archetypes and multiclassing works. The fact that when a new archetype comes out (with the exception of 'class archetypes') it'll be available for pretty much every class. And with the ease of multiclassing, any new content is also mostly available to everyone. A new LVL 4 Fighter feat is a LVL 8 feat for anyone else willing to multi into it. Personally I love that.

That does sound neat. One thing that I found annoying when writing up stuff for Wayfinder is that I'd come up with an Archetype, and immediately want to chop out the two or three cool things in it to make into Feats, so that they'd become available to *everyone,* and not be immediately gated off and only available to that one guy of that one particular class who took said Archetype.

It was a problem with classes that had a bunch of modular options, in particular. I'd come up with an idea for a Fighter or Rogue or Alchemist AT and think, 'I could just scrap this and turn it into 3 Feats or 3 Rogue talents or 3 Alchemist discoveries that anyone could use instead...'

I tend to obsess over wordcount, having edited in my misspent youth, so any option that doesn't apply to 90% of the players feels, IMO, wasteful. The more broadly useful something is, the more it feels like something I should include over something only useful to members of a specific class.

That tends to go both ways, unfortunately, and I've noticed that a new book will come out with a bunch of new classes, and 80% or more of them are spellcasters, because they've already used hundreds of pages on spells, and it feels 'wasteful' to not be able to point back at them, or to have a new class require a new subsystem or mechanic, when it could 'just use spells.' I remember being disappointed that five out of six of the 'new' APG and OA classes, and 7 out of 10 of the new ACG classes, for instance, used spells, which led to me, being contrary by nature, wanting great things from the few that, like the Cavalier and Kineticist (and Brawler, Slayer & Swashbuckler), bucked that trend, and even wanting to see more 'spell-less Ranger' or 'spell-less Paladin' type options, or even a 'spell-less Priest' that found alternate ways to focus on Channel Energy to heal and smite and ward (or just got a ton of more and stronger Oracle revelations), or 'spell-less Mage' that jacked up base powers, like those of the Arcanist's pool, Wizard's school, or a Witches hexes, and skipped spells and spell slots entirely.

Dark Archive

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I'm looking forward to a system that most people will have an adequate understanding of. A system that doesn't have a million hand-waves and incorrect understandings of the rules at every table. Additionally, I can't wait for a system that I can actually teach to people who have never played ttrpgs before and play with them irl. Finally, I like how they are more for trying new things, which can be seen in the stat blocks of monsters and class feats.

August can't get here soon enough!


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Doktor Weasel wrote:
They're no longer doing the Player Companion books from what I understand.

This makes me sad as those were my favorite books.

Doktor Weasel wrote:
And there are fewer books a year, I think the World Guide line is basically quarterly.

Double sadness. I liked getting something new to play with every month.


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I'm looking forward to the World Guide line which is effectively combining the Player Companion and Campaign Setting lines.

Like really "Aquatic Adventures" and "Blood of the Sea" could have been one book, also "First World- Realm of the Fey" and "Legacy of the First World" and lots of other pairs of books in those two lines.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

I'm looking forward to the World Guide line which is effectively combining the Player Companion and Campaign Setting lines.

Like really "Aquatic Adventures" and "Blood of the Sea" could have been one book, also "First World- Realm of the Fey" and "Legacy of the First World" and lots of other pairs of books in those two lines.

Same. Larger, less frequent books appeals to me.

On a semi-related note, I'm looking forward to seeing many of these topics covered by the CRB line revisited with an eye towards more fully rooting the rules into the setting. Between that and the WG line, I'm certainly looking forward to seeing rules contextualized with the lore without having to skip around to two other books.

Now, if only I could convince them to set up a PDF-only subscription option.


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I mean, having two lines which often had pairs of books with similar titles and themes makes it harder to find something. I know right away which of two books the Feyspeaker PrC or Deep Shaman archetype is in, but "having to look in 2 book" is not as good as "having to look in one."


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, having two lines which often had pairs of books with similar titles and themes makes it harder to find something. I know right away which of two books the Feyspeaker PrC or Deep Shaman archetype is in, but "having to look in 2 book" is not as good as "having to look in one."

It's not really an issue to figure out where something is: Our now official online resource tells you the source of anything you look up. It easily tells you that Feyspeaker is an archetype from Ultimate Intrigue pg. 26 while Deep Shaman is Aquatic Adventures pg. 51.

Now offline can be an issue, but I doubt I'd get Feyspeaker right on the first, second or third guesses. Luckily the number of places without some kind of internet access are shrinking daily. ;)

PS: I'm not sure what you are thinking of with the "Feyspeaker PrC".

PPS: I just thought of something I'm looking forward to: Archives of Nethys being the official online source instead of the old way that continued to have out of date and factually incorrect info remaining until the books got a reprint.


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I misspoke, I meant the Feysworn, the Evangelist for one of the Eldest, from the campaign setting First World book (as opposed to the Player Companion First World book).

I have both them an I keep looking for the PrC in the "rules heavy" book, not the other one.


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Shisumo wrote:
I'm looking forward to homebrewing an Eberron conversion. The new rules for ancestries are going to make so many things so much easier.

Ahhh. I thought I was the lone one thinking of Eberron campaign uses for PF2.

Liberty's Edge

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Barnabas Eckleworth III wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
I'm looking forward to homebrewing an Eberron conversion. The new rules for ancestries are going to make so many things so much easier.
Ahhh. I thought I was the lone one thinking of Eberron campaign uses for PF2.

That makes three of us now, and I can't wait.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
kaineblade83 wrote:
Barnabas Eckleworth III wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
I'm looking forward to homebrewing an Eberron conversion. The new rules for ancestries are going to make so many things so much easier.
Ahhh. I thought I was the lone one thinking of Eberron campaign uses for PF2.
That makes three of us now, and I can't wait.

Here's number four.


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I'm looking forward to less randomness regarding the books' themes and a quick conversion of the major concepts and tools of 1E.


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I'm looking forward to introducing the game to a new group of friends. I put together a group for the Playtest and in the past year, the five of us ended up becoming great friends. After finishing Doomsday Dawn, my one friend said, "Man, that Adventure Path was great." This was the first roleplaying game that any of them had taken part in.

I was excited to explain to him that the playtest modules weren't even close to what a full AP would be.


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I'm looking foward to getting to see Paizo really make Pathfinder it's own game without being as constrained as they once where.

When Pathfinder first came out they where very, very much being held up against 4e and 3.5e and it probably made them more hesitant to make the changes they've made now for fear of being compared against 4e. This edition change definitly has certain people who aren't as pumped for the edition change as me but Paizo is in a stronger position now and can make the game the way they think is best.

New and exciting monsters with fun and novel mechanics. Watching Oblivion Oath it really feels like fighting zombies vs fighting bandits vs fighting slimes will feel even more different and like each monster presents a unique challenge.

The base classes have be refined and take into account the design changes (and improvements) made to latter classes and while it remains to see whether or not linear fighter, quadratic wizard will hold, it looks like even if that power diffrence is there, that martial classes won't feel as same-same in and out of combat. Don't get me wrong you could make some awesome non-casters in 1e but 2e looks like its much harder to make a character that doesn't feel unique or at least interesting and varied.

The new action economy will hopefully help manage the sometimes massive disparity between diffrent classes turn lengths and make things move faster.

The integration of golarian specifics from day one so there are no longer those weird disconnects in the CRB between how the system works and how golarian works.

The building of a chassis upon which the game can grow in a manner that doesn't feel disjointed.

I guess what I'm most excited for is getting to see Paizo take everything its learnt and use it make Pathfinder even better; simple but not simplistic; new in design but old in feeling.

Also the chemist / chemical engineer in me is super excited to see how Alchemists will turn out in the final version.

There is only one change between editions that I'm not excited to see more of and that is me trying to handle the change of Harsks hair colour because it has really thrown me. Most of the iconic redesigns are good and even the Harsk one isn't bad per se but I keep seeing the art release and going who's that dwarf with the other iconics because the old look of Harsk is so engraved in my brain.


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I'm looking forward to the second adventure path. Everyone starting as members of a circus is right up my group's alley. And a murder mystery to boot?


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I'm looking forward to a game with more choice in character building than 5e but less weird complexity and cognitive overhead than PF1.


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rooneg wrote:
I'm looking forward to a game with more choice in character building than 5e but less weird complexity and cognitive overhead than PF1.

My whole group is in pretty much the same place you are! As the eternal GM, I can't wait for the ease of run games promised by PF2.


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I am hoping the PF2 paladin is as much fun to play as the PF1 is.


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I am looking to the Bestiary, the golems got me pumped, with the new action economy, fun monsters and not having to look for like 8 monsters feats when running an encounter the game will be pretty fun to GM.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Definitely looking forward to the combined player/setting books. Only having one book to go to for all my [region] needs is going to be awesome.

And the Bestiary. Oh man the Bestiary. As I've said before, 2e monsters are amazing and I can't wait to see/run all of them.


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You know what else is nice? NPCs being designed like monsters not only means they are easier for GMs to run. You can also now hand a player an NPC to tag along in battle and it will be significantly easier on them. I was going to build a couple of Black Arrows for such purposes using PC rules, but then it occurred to me I could just use NPC statblocks with some minor tweaks and they would have a much easier time with them.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

And unlike Starfinder, it theoretically won't break the game balance.


MaxAstro wrote:
And unlike Starfinder, it theoretically won't break the game balance.

...NPCs tagging along in starfinder breaks game balance? I know they have to be APL - 3 or 4 to not outshine the PCs, but it shouldn't break anything.

But for PF2 the monster design is the thing I'm looking forward to most. Followed shortly by the multiclassing system.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
You know what else is nice? NPCs being designed like monsters not only means they are easier for GMs to run. You can also now hand a player an NPC to tag along in battle and it will be significantly easier on them. I was going to build a couple of Black Arrows for such purposes using PC rules, but then it occurred to me I could just use NPC statblocks with some minor tweaks and they would have a much easier time with them.

Right now I use generic fighters for soldiers and guards but, now I can make a bunch based on the regional fighting styles in my world. It will be super immersive for my player to see NPCs more customized for the location their in without it being a chore for me.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Garretmander wrote:
MaxAstro wrote:
And unlike Starfinder, it theoretically won't break the game balance.

...NPCs tagging along in starfinder breaks game balance? I know they have to be APL - 3 or 4 to not outshine the PCs, but it shouldn't break anything.

But for PF2 the monster design is the thing I'm looking forward to most. Followed shortly by the multiclassing system.

Having to be APL-4 is what I mean. It's looking like an APL-1 or even just an APL NPC shouldn't be overpowered compared to players in PF2e.


Garretmander wrote:
...NPCs tagging along in starfinder breaks game balance? I know they have to be APL - 3 or 4 to not outshine the PCs, but it shouldn't break anything.

Starfinder's NPC math is different enough from PC math that NPCs (built using the NPC rules) are in some ways much better and in other ways much worse than an equivalent level PC. So dropping them in to a party can be extra challenging.

But, per the PaizoCon panels, they got this ironed out for P2 release. NPCs will sometimes have slightly better numbers if built under the monster rules, but way less options, so they should be balanced with NPCs built as PCs.

Garretmander wrote:
But for PF2 the monster design is the thing I'm looking forward to most. Followed shortly by the multiclassing system.

Yessssss. The monsters look so good. I'm super excited.

Cheers!
Landon

Dark Archive

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Looking forward to seeing if how Ancestries are handled makes it easier to play non-traditional races like gnolls or lizardfolk, that, in previous iterations, have been saddled with level adjustments and racial HD (and things you generally don't want to give a PC race, like that +5 natural armor bonus on the lizardfolk...).

'Cause I've wanted to play a lizardfolk since Quag Keep and the 1st edition Rogue's Gallery character Phoebus (sp?), and I just like gnolls, because I'm a freak. :)

Silver Crusade

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I too amm a freaky Gnoll lover and would to play them more often yes yes.

Liberty's Edge

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I like Gnolls and would be pleased to see them as a PC ancestry. I'm not sure that makes me especially freaky, but I suppose it's a matter of definition...


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Set wrote:

Looking forward to seeing if how Ancestries are handled makes it easier to play non-traditional races like gnolls or lizardfolk, that, in previous iterations, have been saddled with level adjustments and racial HD (and things you generally don't want to give a PC race, like that +5 natural armor bonus on the lizardfolk...).

'Cause I've wanted to play a lizardfolk since Quag Keep and the 1st edition Rogue's Gallery character Phoebus (sp?), and I just like gnolls, because I'm a freak. :)

Are you aware that Lizardfolk will be the first post-core ancestries to drop, alongside Hobgoblins and Leshis?

Silver Crusade

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Gives us the fluffies!


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I will not be happy until I can play a Flumph again. That and a vegepygmy with a Thorny animal companion.


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graystone wrote:
I will not be happy until I can play a Flumph again. That and a vegepygmy with a Thorny animal companion.

Yes! Flumph up the jams! I'm not really joking when I say an all Flumph adventure like the We Be Goblins and Skitter Shot series would be a lot of fun. They're friendly tentacle monsters from space, what's not to love?

The PF1 Kineticist always makes me think of Flumphs with the text stating that you need a free hand "or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn’t have hands" for their blast and gather power abilities. It sounds like they were exactly what was in mind when that was written.


A fast conversion cycle...

- Have a second "player's handbook" with 12 converted classes and more races.
- Have a second bestiary with 90% of B2, 3 and 4.
- Have a second rulebook with 90% of the Adventures and Ultimate books.
- Have a release schedule similar to Starfinder, with smaller or more booklets.

Look, that they are upgrading their rules, I'm perfectly fine with it.
That they aren't upgrading everything from the start, I'm not fine with it.

I shouldn't have to wait more than one year to play an Occultist, Kineticist or Viligante...


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JiCi wrote:

Look, that they are upgrading their rules, I'm perfectly fine with it.

That they aren't upgrading everything from the start, I'm not fine with it.

I shouldn't have to wait more than one year to play an Occultist, Kineticist or Viligante...

Are you serious? There is a reason those PF1 books came over the span of years. It's work to create them.

If there should be everything available from start, PF2 would not come out in a bit more than a month but around August 1st 2024. Oo


masda_gib wrote:
JiCi wrote:

Look, that they are upgrading their rules, I'm perfectly fine with it.

That they aren't upgrading everything from the start, I'm not fine with it.

I shouldn't have to wait more than one year to play an Occultist, Kineticist or Viligante...

Are you serious? There is a reason those PF1 books came over the span of years. It's work to create them.

If there should be everything available from start, PF2 would not come out in a bit more than a month but around August 1st 2024. Oo

The problem is that newcomers will not see that; veteran players will...

To a newcomer who wants to start playing PF with 2E, s/he will see that there are 12 base classes.

To a veteran who wants to play that same game, s/he will see that there are 28 missing base classes.

Ok, fine, maybe some of them could be reworked into their base classes, but still...

Also, I'm not asking to get everything from the start; I'm asking to get everything 1E ASAP.

- 14 classes next year, next 14 classes the next next year
- Bestiary 1 2E being made of B1, 2 and even 3, Bestiary 2 2E being made of the rest.

Silver Crusade

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JiCi wrote:
veteran players will...
Veteran player here perfectly fine with it.
Quote:
Ok, fine, maybe some of them could be reworked into their base classes, but still...
And then some.
Quote:
Also, I'm not asking to get everything from the start; I'm asking to get everything 1E ASAP.

And I very much want them to not rush everything to get stuff out asap. I rather they, ya'know, actually work on stuff.

Dark Archive

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Rysky wrote:
And I very much want them to not rush everything to get stuff out asap. I rather they, ya'know, actually work on stuff.

Yeah, as the old saying goes, you can have it good, you can have it fast, or you can have it cheap. Pick one.

I pick good. I'd much rather have a *good* Kineticist, or whatever, than just one pumped out so that they'd have one out there in time for launch.

Plus if they dropped, like, FORTY or so base classes right at launch, the book would weigh fifty lbs, and cost all the moneys. I'll take the installment plan, please. :)

And, IMO, the classes that probably *should* get priority are the ones already cooked into the setting. We know Alchemists are a big deal, because of the Sun Orchid Elixir and Thuvia. Gunslingers are a thing in Alkenstar, and Numeria. We know there are Witches, they are all over Irrisen. But if there aren't any Cavaliers or Hunters or Shifters or Mesmerists available right this second? There's no setting area neglected by those showing up a few books down the road.

It's a little bit ironic that the rush to backfit the Summoner into the setting via the Godcallers of Sarkoris, combined with the newly available adventure area of post-Worldwound Sarkoris, makes the Summoner *more* relevant to the setting lore than, say, the Inquisitor or even the Magus! I'm sure that wasn't intended. :)

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