Golden Goblin Statue

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Organized Play Member. 244 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 4 Organized Play characters.


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So I told my players that I, personally, don't enjoy random encounters. Now the people I'm playing with are all new to TTRPGs, so they seemed a little disappointed. I promised them that I'd throw together something. This triggers for a success, failure, or critical failure for the Camp in the Mwangi Jungle activity, so I've made it something of a coin flip on whether or not they'll get an encounter. So far we haven't had any encounters, but my players are tense when they make camp, so I guess it's working.

I've included my random encounter chart below for anyone interested.

Spoiler:

Random Encounters

01 - 50 No encounter
51 - 65 Charau-ka Hunting Party
66 - 75 Biloko Hunting Party
76 - 83 Grippili Hunting Party
84 - 90 Living Sap
91 - 95 Anklyosaurus
96 - 99 Megaprimatus
00 Roll twice and combine the encounters

Charau-ka Hunting Party: A group of charau-ka who have nothing to do with the Cinderclaws chances upon the players during the night. They approach stealthily at night, opposed to the passive Perception of the person on watch. Success indicates that they get a surprise round.

5 Elite Charau-ka Warriors
2 Charau-ka Acolytes
1 Charau-ka Butcher

Biloko Hunting Party: Knowing that they are no match for the group, the Biloko instead follow the PCs making Stealth checks opposed by passive Perceptions on the next day. If they are successful, they join in on the next encounter as enemies.

3 Biloko Veterans

Grippili Hunting Party: These peaceful frogmen begin at Unfriendly, but if their Greenspeaker can be moved to Friendly, they will give the PCs information about a populated hex nearby.

3 Grippili Scouts
2 Grippili Archers
1 Grippili Greenspeaker

Living Sap: Stealthily approaching from the treetops onto the sentry, the living sap attempts to suffocate the guard. It makes a Stealth check against the passive Perception of the person on watch. Sleeping PCs get a -4 penalty to Perception checks to beat DC 5 to hear the sounds of battle. Further, if the sentry is Engulfed, this DC raises to 10.

Anklyosaurus: An anklyosaurus attacks in the middle of the night. It makes no attempt to sneak up and charges the sentry instead.

Megaprimatus: Arrives in the morning after the PCs have taken their daily preparations and are starting to move on. A wild herd of animals comes thundering through the jungle, forcing all the PCs to make Reflex saves (DC 22) or fall prone for the first turn of combat. The megaprimatus pushes aside some trees and throws itself at the PCs, hungry for blood!


Cool! If people aren't so big on Hunted Shot, you could always use level 4 for Bespell Weapon for another 1d6 damage with that third action attack. Throw out a spell (like Hideous Laughter, Blur, Burning Hands, or Grease) to help out, then get in 3d6 damage on that third attack without any MAP penalties. It seems a little more reliable than Hunted Shot and hoping the creature survives a round to take advantage of that.


Is there are reason you went with human instead of elf for bows? Instead of using your human ancestry feat for 1/2 weapon training, you could instead use your elven ancestry feat to get Elven Weapon Familiarity for shortbows (and more) from level 1. It also gives you access to Elven Weapon Elegance at 5. Not to mention elves get their ancestry bonuses to Int and Dex natively.


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You said

Strill wrote:
Martialmasters is the only one who's saying that gishes are harmful to the game.

And the OP has been clear and has repeated several times that this thread isn't an argument about what a gish is, but is looking for builds.

Edit: Martialmasters has even said that you're not at all representing what he is saying.


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Samurai wrote:
What if the people who are feeling offended and marginalized are due to all the changes from PF1e? Or, more precisely, not all the changes,

I'm not sure it's the best look to compare "not liking a new game" to "civil liberties routinely stripped away." You can always NOT play a game, but you can't change your ethnicity, sexuality, or disability.


Well that's a whole load of guilt off my shoulders.


Castilliano wrote:
Try feeding water to a boxer...while he's boxing.

Or a runner while he's running! ...Wait.

Honestly, I'm not exactly happy that I've houseruled it at my table, but it was in an effort to incentivize my alchemist to prep more than just alchemist's fire over and over (he has since changed this habit, thankfully).

EDIT: Really not a fair comparison from me, as the runner themselves takes and drinks the water.


Personally, I've ruled at my table that you can spend an action to "feed" a potion or elixir to an adjacent ally. This hasn't come up too often since it's usually an entire turn of Striding, Interacting, and then using the potion.

At my table, I would have no problem with you doing that. 1 action to Command the familiar which then uses it's two actions to 1) Interact to draw it and then 2) Feed it to you.

However, I haven't seen anything official.


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Hey, man, Martialmasters has made it abundantly clear that they were looking for gish builds from people, not a crusade against it. If you feel that strongly that gishes are somehow harmful to the game, go make a thread instead of attacking the OP's.


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I think you want the First Edition forums, you're in Second here. But we can totally help you make a 2e warpriest!


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puksone wrote:


The sjw attitude from paizo is really annoying. They should keep their views for them self.

A lot of people seem to cry "SJW" when they see a changing social climate. If you think that having the inclusion of boundaries or LGBTQ NPCs somehow makes the game worse, I'm not sure what to tell you. This is a game made in 2019 with our social and cultural mores baked into it. It's reflective of (admittedly) American shifts in society that are accepted and a part of normal life.

My anecdotal data is strange about 2e's take up. I live in Japan and often use board games and role-playing games as a way to introduce English to students. I run two 2e groups and have a small list of people ready to join into new games after the holidays. One of my Japanese friends is an OSR player who paged through the Playtest Rulebook and was really excited. He's been waiting for the Japanese release from Arclight Games. Not sure if that's happened yet or if he's running any games, but he has excitedly talked about goblin barbarians!


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Atalius wrote:
Typically isn't there an inch under the doors or anything so the eye can go through doors?

Depends on your DM and where you are. An inch is bigger than you think. I wouldn't enjoy an inch gap under my door during the cold months.


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I don't see why it would. It's a 5th level spell slot to get information about what's coming up, it feels like a fair trade off. It can only be sustained for 10 minutes, so its not like you can cover the entire complex (especially one with doors). With durations of buffs being changed as well, prebuff and battle isn't as troublesome/necessary as it was before.


Coming in as a teacher to repeat with Malk is saying. The issue isn't with the rules, it's with how they're being interpreted by a very small percentage of people. This thread isn't a good sample size, but it should illustrate how many other people are not confused by the rules of the feat.


Let me save you some ethical debate: You weren't the only one to think that.


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Oh, come on. Do we need ANOTHER of these threads? Really? There's one going on right now!


At the OP's request, I'm not going to continue this derail. I disagree with your premise that gishes require the character to get an exchange of more power and that fighter feats provide more power than spellcasting.


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Strill wrote:
Ruzza wrote:
But a gish can do what a martial can do. They're less limited by design. To say that a martial can use abilities all day doesn't stop a gish from using those same abilities all day, they just get that AND spellcasting.
If they're a gish, then they're sacrificing a bunch of class feats that they could be using on other things. Yes, they can technically do martial things and spellcasting, but they're missing out on a ton of martial stuff.

But in this edition you're gaining combat options as a martial, not combat power. Trading out options for options isn't degrading your power in any way. It's still a gish.


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But a gish can do what a martial can do. They're less limited by design. To say that a martial can use abilities all day doesn't stop a gish from using those same abilities all day, they just get that AND spellcasting.


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Strill wrote:
Of course it needs to be a power gain. If you go gish, your abilities are limited to spell slots. If you go straight fighter, your abilities are unlimited. That limitation should offer greater peak power in exchange.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. A fighter doesn't have unlimited abilities as compared to a gish. They can't fly, hurl fireballs, or haste themselves. Adding in a spellcasting counterpart confers to them those abilities that, like all spellcasters, have spell slots. You're adding versatility without increasing overall power.

Though it could, and should, be argued that more versatility is a form of power.


Or one of my favorites, "Flunked out of a wizard academy and turned to a life of crime to pay back your tuition costs, using what little you've learned and your own deft fingers." - Rogue Wizard/Arcane Trickster

Gish isn't a term used only in powergaming circles, it comes from far before that. (I mean, if we're being literal, gish just means a gith'yanki fighter/magic-user) It really is just anyone who blends the martial and spellcasting ability. The idea that someone would be gishing for anything more than versatility might not have done that much CharOp.


Lanathar wrote:
Ruzza wrote:

I have a sorcerer in my group with the champion dedication that's been working out quite well from what I've seen. Currently level 7, wearing full plate and can mix it up in melee combat fairly decently with his draconic heritage. He buffs and debuffs, has a high Intimidate, and has become the "catch-all skill monkey" with Clever Improviser. At level 8, he's planning to take Champion's Reaction to grab Glimpse of Redemption to further his protector role.

Let me acknowledge (as he does) that he doesn't have a ton of HP, but it hasn't yet become an issue. He's held his own in magic and martial matters, but he definitely excels when it comes to casting. His current wishlist for the APG is some form of Sorcerer archetype that would allow him to reach only master in spellcasting, but also master in his weapons.

What is the build / stat spread ?

I'm going off my memory here (and I know he lurks on these forums and never posts, but I'll try and do it justice).

Ancestry: Human
Heritage: Half-Orc
Class: Draconic Sorcerer (Level 7)

  • Str 18
  • Dex 12
  • Con 14
  • Int 10
  • Wis 12
  • Cha 19

2nd level: Champion Dedication
4th level: I want to say Bespell Weapon, but I haven't seen it get used. It could just be Champion Resiliency
6th level: Advanced Bloodline
8th level (when he reaches it): Champion's Reaction

If he ends up in melee or needs to provide flanking for the martial in the group, he uses his Dragon Claws and does a decent bit of damage. He generally debuffs stronger foes with Slow or Touch of Idiocy, buffs the martial with Haste, and blasts with Magic Missile or controls weaker groups with Sleep. He's been solid in my group.


I have a sorcerer in my group with the champion dedication that's been working out quite well from what I've seen. Currently level 7, wearing full plate and can mix it up in melee combat fairly decently with his draconic heritage. He buffs and debuffs, has a high Intimidate, and has become the "catch-all skill monkey" with Clever Improviser. At level 8, he's planning to take Champion's Reaction to grab Glimpse of Redemption to further his protector role.

Let me acknowledge (as he does) that he doesn't have a ton of HP, but it hasn't yet become an issue. He's held his own in magic and martial matters, but he definitely excels when it comes to casting. His current wishlist for the APG is some form of Sorcerer archetype that would allow him to reach only master in spellcasting, but also master in his weapons.


Kennethray wrote:
So last week we finished book 1. During the description of the gates I was have a hard time seeing the gates on the map in the location they are listed in. Maybe I am missing something. Where are the bloody gates?

The map markings are a little off. I made some quick notes on my map here to help you.

In between the portals are alcoves with benches, but they could be mistaken for portals at a quick glance (and with the way the letters line up).


Funny enough, I got to run this encounter today. With a group of level 6 players, I was worried about how this would go. The sorcerer in my group opened up with a level 3 dispel magic on the pillar, got a success, and the rest of the group just went in on the combat itself. Cleric buffed up the barbarian who went in swinging and Demoralizing while the alchemist hurled lightning bombs and frost bombs. The sorcerer ended up being less useful with his mostly fire-based damaging spells, but he got in several magic missiles.

Overall, this fight was tough, but nearly as deadly as I feared. A lot of that, however, is off of the sorcerer compulsively dispelling every pillar (and rolling high or blowing Hero Points for it) and the party having a ton of debuffs against the enemy.


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You can not like something, you keep saying you don't like the class and that's okay. But you keep saying that it's poorly designed and either not knowing what that means or just not telling us what you think it means.

As for the math being out, there have been numerous threads proving the that math works just fine. What math are you referring to?


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I feel strange saying this, but I really like the human ancestry right now. Ancestry feats that tie a lot of flavor into the character are really exciting to get, like a fire-breathing Tian, flying Shory, or magically imbued Thassilonian.

Humans in PF1 were really an all around great race, but I felt like it was a bland option if I ever picked it. Now the human has a stronger cultural identity that's also fun to interact with.


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Whelp, I've already blown an hour at work going through this.

Seriously,though, fantastic job. I usually hate class guides, but you're looking at the wizard from every angle and it shows. I pray your sanity holds out as more books get added into the fold.


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Fumarole wrote:
Dragon Pillars attack the closest target. This means if a PC is blinded and they remain the closest one to the pillar, the pillar is effectively neutralized for the rest of the combat.

"Are we winning guys? Are we winning?"

"Yes, Torvok, we're winning. Now keep standing there and swinging your sword!"


So my response to that, Valantrix1, is how has your party been handling combat up until now? More specifically, how did they handle the fight with the barghest in book 1?

The encounter is severe for them, but it's also a nova encounter. They should be throwing everything they have into it. Level + 2 fights can be really tricky if your players aren't buffing and debuffing or playing tactically. If every encounter has been some variation of "Stride in and Strike" then I think it's fine to give the guardian the weak template to make things a little easier.

The pillar, on the other hand, is actually incredibly nasty. Odds are low that the pillar is going to miss, but at least the attack will most likely be going against someone with a decent Fort save (hopefully your Fighters/Barbarians/Champion types are leading the charge), but a low roll is going to be rough. The good news is that Restore Senses is a 2nd level spell, and the blindness acts as a 3rd level effect (half of the hazard's level) for the purposes of counteracting. Only a success needed to cure it.

Depending on your group, they should be ready to run and return better prepared later. The advantage of this book is that there's lots of scouting that can be done (and given as rewards), so you can use that as well. At the end of the day, however, you know your group best. Simply lowering the range and DC of the pillar can be a fine and charitable thing, as well.


Miy2Cents wrote:

(since only Evil takes Good damage) ?

Could you point me to that page number, please.

Core Rulebook page 452 "Alignment Damage"


Corvo Spiritwind wrote:

Anyone got a link to this new stuff?

Didn't see alchemist got changes :o

This thread is back from launch, they're talking about Playtest to launch. Then it got Necro'd. (Unless you're talking about the errata from last month, in which case here you go.)


If it's something that concerns you or your players, however, it's a pretty easy houserule to implement. Just give it a Crafting DC based on item level and have it take a day of downtime to resize.


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It sounds like you're not choosing the right spells for the situation. Summons (even in PF1) aren't about getting another damage dealing body, but rather options: a flanking partner, a spellcaster, a creature with an aura, and occasionally a silver bullet answer to an encounter.

Flaming sphere is a high risk, high reward spell that promises big damage on a failed save, but nothing on a success. It's best use is to clear out weaker foes and probably shouldn't br a first pick in your highest level spell slot.

All that said, it's absolutely fine to enjoy playing the bard more. That doesn't mean that wizard isn't fun to play or is a poorly designed class. You're attempted to turn a subjective thought into an objective fact.


ChibiNyan wrote:


Might even have worse odds than the non-spell since other actions you can increase DC/bonus with items/buffs.

I want to be clear that I'm asking this question genuinely, so I'm still getting used to spell lists. Are there any common spells that can buff up your saving throws?

As far as I've seen, it's mostly been debuffing versus spells that's the name of the game. An enemy could Raise a Shield or Take Cover, but I haven't seen anything they could do to gain an increase to their Fortitude, Reflex, or Will.

Personally I haven't engaged too much in the martial versus caster debate because I haven't had enough time seeing them in action. Now that I've been running 2e for about three months with two groups and four spellcasters, I can say that they're enjoying themselves.

The trouble only seems to occur versus enemies that are higher level than them (i.e. the "boss fights"). However, these fights have given my martial players just as much trouble (at least until they started Demoralizing and buffing). One of my players who didn't play any 1e asked to change around his spell list since he needed spells that played around better at all levels; picking up spells that still were decent effects even on successful saves and ditching spells that didn't have at least basic saves.

I also have a player who came from 5e who tried out summoning and she seemed pretty disappointed to spend three actions to get a fairly weak creature and one she needed to spend another action the next turn to maintain. I pointed out the versatility of the spell, to get creatures that could target weaknesses or help in areas you lack, but she mostly just wanted to make a little guy for fighting. As a GM, I'm in love with these rules and I understand why they're there. I just was pointing out what my players haven't enjoyed. But really, they keep showing up for games and they keep casting spells (even if our 8 Strength gnome bard keeps trying to find ways to fight with her whip).


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Since it deals alignment damage, each only affects evil creatures anyway.


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Regardless, the OP seemed to have taken the advice of the thread and stepped away to cool off. It's a good thing to remember if ever you find yourself getting upset at people you've never met over a game that we all enjoy.


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If we get the thread topic to turn into: "Throwing fire at trolls is racist," then we'll have finally justified the need for three threads about this.


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Lemme try my hand at helping you out.

Gemstones

  • Alexandrite (500 gp)
  • Aquamarine (500 gp)
  • Violet garnet (500 gp)
  • Black pearl (500 gp)
  • Deep blue spinel (500 gp)
  • Golden yellow topaz (500 gp)
  • Jasper gemstone (50 gp)

Art Objects

  • Silver chalice set with Moonstones (750 gp)
  • Gold comb set with red garnets as eyes (750 gp)
  • Ceremonial electrum dagger with a black pearl in the pommel (750 gp)
  • Gold flute (40 gp)
  • Silver cup with mysterious markings (50 gp)
  • Gold-plated copper candleholders, pair (45 gp)
  • Antique ceramic vase, inlaid with bronze (125 gp)
  • Ornamental fur cloak with alabaster clasps (75 gp)
  • Durable marble figurine of a snake, inlaid with gold (600 gp)
  • Durable platinum figurine of an elephant, inlaid with mother-of-pearl (1250 gp)

I worked very hard on this list, so please be kind.


1) No, magic weapon only turns a weapon into a +1 striking weapon, it does not turn it into a +2 greater striking weapon or "stack." It just flatly does the effect.

2. Correct. Unless you take a feat (such as Divine Reflexes) you only have one reaction a turn.

Edit: Beaten!


Rosgakori wrote:


Is the Greater Barghest going to murderize a standard 3-4 player party? I'm looking at what it can do and how many hitpoints it has and it seems like a potential partywipe waiting to happen. I acknowledge that I'm still looking at these stats with 1.edition goggles on due lack of experience, but my friend who is running this (and isn't active in these forums) was worried about this too. He had trouble getting his party alive from boggards too.

Ralldar is no joke. I think that most people agree that he's the real "boss" of book 1. It's important to see how your players tackle encounters and sort of adjust accordingly. The old paradigm of "run into melee and swing until dead," is going to be rough.

My group had a discussion about tactics AFTER the barghest encounter and realized the sort of tools they had at their disposal. Since then, things have been smooth sailing. It's better to have that talk before the party level+3 fight, though. ("How can we prevent ourselves from getting hit? How can we debuff the enemy? How will we handle combat healing?" Etc)


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You're also doing a really good job populating this list of art objects and gemstones yourself.


The_Hidden_GM wrote:

They could learn:

1. That certain parts of the creature are valuable to the right buyer, delicious when cooked correctly or a potent aphrodisiac.

2. That they can not go near or are attracted to a certain substance.

3. That under the right conditions they can transform into another creature.

4. That they have some origin story related to a powerful entity or a force of nature.

5. That they are children/servitors of a larger, more legendary creature.

6. That some attack they do transfers a slow acting disease or curse, with a local cure (watch for the symptoms).

7. That they have some unique ritual associated with them.

8. That they have an odd reaction to a spell or item.

9. That among them is a shape-shifting caretaker.

10. That it's clearly a humanoid in a costume.

Most of these waste time after a fight or are quickly disproved by wasting a few action, an equivalent of one person being stunned 2. I based this list on folk stories, urban legends and fairy tales of common creatures.

This is an A+ list. Stealing some of these for sure.


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It can tough to think of on the fly, but I try and make it something that makes the fight more interesting and less frustrating. "It's weak to (it's immunity)!" for instance, isn't all that engaging.

But telling a group that black puddings are weak to slashing weapons makes the fight more challenging, but not in a way that's unaccounted for in the stat block. Misremembering that hags can only be wounded in the light of the moon, a mummy is tied to it's burial place and is weakened if it leaves, bulettes have a vulnerability on their underside... Things that change the texture of battle.

I'd rather my players attempt more interesting actions based on "half-heard rumors" or "stories they were told as children" makes a critical failure a part of the story rather than, "Oh... So we dealt less damage."


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That might just be confirmation bias.


Edit: Didn't see the above posts. Removing mine.


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We don't need three threads for these discussions.


SuperBidi wrote:
Ruzza wrote:
But we have again and again pointed out that this is only going to occur with characters that don't have any actual knowledge of the topic. Like was said several times, even creatures that would have high DCs aren't going to give you a high percentage of inaccurate information unless... And again, this is the kicker, you're actually not knowledgeable in that area.
We are running in circle, so we will agree to disagree :)

You made the topic asking for people's opinions and even included a nice clickbait-y title. Are you saying that you haven't been engaging with this topic in good faith?


Saying, "Well why should I make this check? I'm likely to fail," is entirely within character for someone who is woefully inadequate at the skill.

Someone who does have a high bonus (or honestly, at par for their level) isn't going to even think about DCs because they will be fine.


SuperBidi wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
How would you know if the DC is high? Monsters don't walk around with glowing numbers over their head telling you their CR.

Hence the title of my thread: You have, as a player, to assess the DC of the Recall Knowledge before using it. If it's too high, you must not as you'll get mostly trash information you'll have to play with. This is the metagaming I'm speaking about...

Ruzza wrote:
Right? But you've been arguing that critical failures create this nebulous zone of "metagame knowledge" because mathematically you could be giving out erroneous information that you "have to act on."

Not at all.

I'm not speaking about the critical failures content. I'm speaking of the chances of critical failures who forces you to metagame the DC to avoid having too much trash information.

But we have again and again pointed out that this is only going to occur with characters that don't have any actual knowledge of the topic. Like was said several times, even creatures that would have high DCs aren't going to give you a high percentage of inaccurate information unless... And again, this is the kicker, you're actually not knowledgeable in that area.

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