is it just me or does Spoiler #34 - Weapon Specialization looks less powerful than expected?
Depends; what do we know about "instinct specialization abilities"? There wasn't anything called "totem specialization abilities" in the playtest.
Guess it would depend on what the instinct specialization is
is it just me or does Spoiler #34 - Weapon Specialization looks less powerful than expected?
At a minimum it's as good as weapon specialization in PF1, a feat a lot of people took, plus there's the issue where "we don't know what instinct specialization abilities are like. If it's something like the level 6-8 feat associate with a totem in the playtest then it looks pretty strong.
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It's basically rage damage scaling. I wouldn't worry too much. What we need to find is the Fighter and Ranger damage scaling, because if it's enough to cover two damage dice, great, but if not, Striking is going back into the dumpster and ABP is back.
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We're getting close! I'm currently missing images for these 12 spoilers:
6
13
20
26
40
46
50
51
72
84
85
93
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is it just me or does Spoiler #34 - Weapon Specialization looks less powerful than expected?
No? It stacks on top of Rage damage to give more or less the same damage bonus they got in the playtest, plus the Instinct Specialization (whatever that is).
I mean, maybe it's weak maybe it's strong, maybe it's weak but on top of everything else they get the class as a whole is strong. We just lack information on what's going on in this regard.
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Man you guys are quick on the uptake here. Looks like my list of 50+ is already uploaded accurately. I've reuploaded images to a google drive to keep track of the images.
I also manually renamed the files so you can find those here!
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Thanks tqomins! Adding number 93 right now...
#93We're getting close! I'm currently missing images for these 12 spoilers:
6, 13, 20, 26, 40, 46, 50, 51, 72, 84, 85, 93
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It's delicious and it counts as a trail ration.Awesome! I was hoping to get equipment kits.#84
Barbarian Class Equipment Kit
Price 3 gp, 2 sp; Bulk 3 Bulk, 5 light;
Money Left Over 11 gp, 8 sp
Armor hide armor
Weapons 4 javelins
Gear adventurer’s pack (containing a backpack, a bedroll, two belt pouches, 10 pieces of chalk, flint and steel, 50 feet of rope, 2 weeks’ rations, soap, 5 torches, and a waterskin), grappling hook, 2 sheaths
Options greataxe (2 gp), greatclub (1 gp), greatsword (2 gp), or battleaxe and steel shield (3gp)Barbarian. Soap?
So two weeks and one day of rations
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Just found #46 abandoned in the hotel:
Resolve Cleric Class Feature 9th
You've steeled your mind with resolve. Your proficiency rank for Will saves increases to master. When you roll a success at a Will save, you get a critical success instead.
Spoiler #46 #MyPathfinder Spoiler
Spoiler 93: Fricken cool!!! You can use your Hero Points for your familiars or animal companions :)
Hmmm, it says Hero Points are fortune effects... would that mean they could be effected by fortune enhancing powers (if 2E has any)?
AWESOME. Got my google doc updated with what we know so far. Love the Jason will be adding more when he gets back assuming we find them all.
6, 20, 50, 51, 72, 74, 85, 86, 87, 99 left
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Hmmm, it says Hero Points are fortune effects... would that mean they could be effected by fortune enhancing powers (if 2E has any)?
Unless these bits have changed significantly from playtest, it means:
Cannot apply other fortune effects to the check.
Cannot be applied to checks with the Secret tag.
Are cancelled by (and cancel out) a misfortune effect on the check.
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is it just me or does Spoiler #34 - Weapon Specialization looks less powerful than expected?
It's actually pretty close to the damage progression we had in the playtest. It looks like both are 2 more damage at level 7, and it seems reasonable to expect that master/legendary bumps are going to be happening at the same point the playtest damage would have been bumped again (11 and 15) given when other classes seem to be getting proficiency bumps.
More importantly, this doesn't seem to be a barbarian's only bonus damage based on #36, Thrash. I don't know what a "ferocious specialization damage" is but I bet it is relevant.
Edit: Oy, lots of people beat me to the punch here.
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Fortune/Misfortune are just keywords for "roll twice, pick the best/worst result"?
Fortune/Misfortune are just keywords for "roll twice, pick the best/worst result"?
Category of effect that includes the above as well as rerolling a failed roll and forcing a reroll on an opponent's success. See pg. 293 of the playtest rulebook for the specifics.
Hmmm, it says Hero Points are fortune effects... would that mean they could be effected by fortune enhancing powers (if 2E has any)?Unless these bits have changed significantly from playtest, it means:
Cannot apply other fortune effects to the check.
Cannot be applied to checks with the Secret tag.
Are cancelled by (and cancel out) a misfortune effect on the check.
Also (still per the playtest) that it cannot be applied to ritual skill checks.
I am very curious about #45, the "Cloistered Cleric", as a "Cleric Doctrine". I don't remember cleric doctrines from the playtest. I am very curious to learn more about those, which makes me especially curious to learn what #46 might be since we have not seen that one revealed yet. I am hoping it might be another cleric doctrine. I want to learn more about those. I have always found the cleric to be a boring class, but the idea of cleric doctrines is making me excited to learn more. I am hoping there are at least a few to sink my teeth into, like maybe "templar", "warpriest", "inquisitor", "oracle", "shaman", and such. Cloistered Cleric is clearly a very spell-focused doctrine, but maybe there are more combat-focused, investigative, diplomatic, sneaky, healer, and anti-monster doctrines.
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I am very curious about #45, the "Cloistered Cleric", as a "Cleric Doctrine". I don't remember cleric doctrines from the playtest. I am very curious to learn more about those, which makes me especially curious to learn what #46 might be since we have not seen that one revealed yet. I am hoping it might be another cleric doctrine. I want to learn more about those. I have always found the cleric to be a boring class, but the idea of cleric doctrines is making me excited to learn more. I am hoping there are at least a few to sink my teeth into, like maybe "templar", "warpriest", "inquisitor", "oracle", "shaman", and such. Cloistered Cleric is clearly a very spell-focused doctrine, but maybe there are more combat-focused, investigative, diplomatic, sneaky, healer, and anti-monster doctrines.
All classes except fighter and monk are confirmed to have class paths similar to the druid orders. Doctrine seems to be the name of the cleric's path.
And warpriest* was already confirmed to be one of the available doctrines.
Warpriest as in "martial focused cleric". Can't remember if "Warpriest" was the actual name.
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I am very curious about #45, the "Cloistered Cleric", as a "Cleric Doctrine". I don't remember cleric doctrines from the playtest. I am very curious to learn more about those, which makes me especially curious to learn what #46 might be since we have not seen that one revealed yet. I am hoping it might be another cleric doctrine. I want to learn more about those. I have always found the cleric to be a boring class, but the idea of cleric doctrines is making me excited to learn more. I am hoping there are at least a few to sink my teeth into, like maybe "templar", "warpriest", "inquisitor", "oracle", "shaman", and such. Cloistered Cleric is clearly a very spell-focused doctrine, but maybe there are more combat-focused, investigative, diplomatic, sneaky, healer, and anti-monster doctrines.All classes except fighter and monk are confirmed to have class paths similar to the druid orders. Doctrine seems to be the name of the cleric's path.
And warpriest* was already confirmed to be one of the available doctrines.
Warpriest as in "martial focused cleric". Can't remember if "Warpriest" was the actual name.
Ooh, nice to know about the warpriest bit. Thanks for sharing. I did not know that before now.
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I am very curious about #45, the "Cloistered Cleric", as a "Cleric Doctrine". I don't remember cleric doctrines from the playtest. I am very curious to learn more about those, which makes me especially curious to learn what #46 might be since we have not seen that one revealed yet. I am hoping it might be another cleric doctrine. I want to learn more about those. I have always found the cleric to be a boring class, but the idea of cleric doctrines is making me excited to learn more. I am hoping there are at least a few to sink my teeth into, like maybe "templar", "warpriest", "inquisitor", "oracle", "shaman", and such. Cloistered Cleric is clearly a very spell-focused doctrine, but maybe there are more combat-focused, investigative, diplomatic, sneaky, healer, and anti-monster doctrines.
Warpriest was confirmed as a cleric doctrine a while ago, it grants heavy armour proficiency and other stuff. There is a third doctrine, but it wasn't revealed yet.
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Sadly, from these spoiler cards it seems Spell Level is still a thing. And considering the universal format of things, it's a worse problem than other editions. Feat 5 means it's a feat available at level 5, Item 5 means it's an item appropriate for level 5, etc. But apparently Spell 5 still means it's a 5th Spell Level spell, which can be taken at level 9... A cantrip with Heightened +1 means you improve it every other level. And what levels are they using for Rituals and Focus Powers? (I suspect spell level and character level respectively, but focus powers are probably heightened by spell level). It's a pretty dramatic break from the general pattern, but presented in the same way. If they wanted to keep a unified style for everything, they probably should have changed the level of spells to the level it's available at, so those 5th level spells will be Spell 9, and eventually there will be Spell 19 for what are currently 10th level spells. That might upset some for it's breaking of tradition, but would at least make every use of Level work on a consistent scale. Alternately, spells could keep their 1-10 scaling and be presented in a different style than everything else, and preferably be called something other than spell levels.
This will cause some confusion, and even after people learn that it's an exception, will increase the cognitive load a little. This isn't a massive game-breaker, but annoying.
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Sadly, from these spoiler cards it seems Spell Level is still a thing. And considering the universal format of things, it's a worse problem than other editions. Feat 5 means it's a feat available at level 5, Item 5 means it's an item appropriate for level 5, etc. But apparently Spell 5 still means it's a 5th Spell Level spell, which can be taken at level 9... A cantrip with Heightened +1 means you improve it every other level. And what levels are they using for Rituals and Focus Powers? (I suspect spell level and character level respectively, but focus powers are probably heightened by spell level). It's a pretty dramatic break from the general pattern, but presented in the same way. If they wanted to keep a unified style for everything, they probably should have changed the level of spells to the level it's available at, so those 5th level spells will be Spell 9, and eventually there will be Spell 19 for what are currently 10th level spells. That might upset some for it's breaking of tradition, but would at least make every use of Level work on a consistent scale. Alternately, spells could keep their 1-10 scaling and be presented in a different style than everything else, and preferably be called something other than spell levels.
This will cause some confusion, and even after people learn that it's an exception, will increase the cognitive load a little. This isn't a massive game-breaker, but annoying.
Counterpoint - you have a bunch of spell 17s at level 18, and people will constantly be going "where's spell 2/4/6/8/etc".
For Focus Spells, I assume they're going to use level/2 rounded up again.
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Sadly, from these spoiler cards it seems Spell Level is still a thing. And considering the universal format of things, it's a worse problem than other editions. Feat 5 means it's a feat available at level 5, Item 5 means it's an item appropriate for level 5, etc. But apparently Spell 5 still means it's a 5th Spell Level spell, which can be taken at level 9... A cantrip with Heightened +1 means you improve it every other level. And what levels are they using for Rituals and Focus Powers? (I suspect spell level and character level respectively, but focus powers are probably heightened by spell level). It's a pretty dramatic break from the general pattern, but presented in the same way. If they wanted to keep a unified style for everything, they probably should have changed the level of spells to the level it's available at, so those 5th level spells will be Spell 9, and eventually there will be Spell 19 for what are currently 10th level spells. That might upset some for it's breaking of tradition, but would at least make every use of Level work on a consistent scale. Alternately, spells could keep their 1-10 scaling and be presented in a different style than everything else, and preferably be called something other than spell levels.
This will cause some confusion, and even after people learn that it's an exception, will increase the cognitive load a little. This isn't a massive game-breaker, but annoying.
Counterpoint - you have a bunch of spell 17s at level 18, and people will constantly be going "where's spell 2/4/6/8/etc".
For Focus Spells, I assume they're going to use level/2 rounded up again.
There is that. It would introduce design space to fill those numbers. But I think any issue about missing levels is outweighed by the confusion of displaying a completely different scale in the same fashion as the 1-20 levels. Classes don't always get feats for every level after all, why should spells be different?
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“A spell of the third circle” has been a staple in-game term for me for over a decade to define Fireball’s power level.
Give it a try.
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In the German translation we use "Stufe" for "level" for anything that's on the character level 1–20 scale, and "Grad" (literally "degree") for other uses of "level", such as spell level, or even starship tiers in Starfinder.
couple more ill keep checking the ones i have photos of and sharing
Thank you for those photos. I know at least one person here is compiling them in jpeg
For those jumping to the end, the current missing cards are:
6, 20, 50, 51, 72, 74, 85, 86, 87
Somebody mentioned 6 was floating around, but I can't seem to find it.
And here's the transcribed list if you want a quick reference in .docx format.
Actually, malcolm_n, #74 is given above and #86 and #87 are already available on GlassTopGames for example. But #26 is still missing.
So the current missing list would be:
6, 20, 26, 50, 51, 72, 85
Actually, malcolm_n, #74 is given above and #86 and #87 are already available on GlassTopGames for example. But #26 is still missing.
So the current missing list would be:
6, 20, 26, 50, 51, 72, 85
Yes, thank you, sorry I must have missed those. I've got them added now.
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Sadly, from these spoiler cards it seems Spell Level is still a thing. And considering the universal format of things, it's a worse problem than other editions. Feat 5 means it's a feat available at level 5, Item 5 means it's an item appropriate for level 5, etc. But apparently Spell 5 still means it's a 5th Spell Level spell, which can be taken at level 9... A cantrip with Heightened +1 means you improve it every other level. And what levels are they using for Rituals and Focus Powers? (I suspect spell level and character level respectively, but focus powers are probably heightened by spell level). It's a pretty dramatic break from the general pattern, but presented in the same way. If they wanted to keep a unified style for everything, they probably should have changed the level of spells to the level it's available at, so those 5th level spells will be Spell 9, and eventually there will be Spell 19 for what are currently 10th level spells. That might upset some for it's breaking of tradition, but would at least make every use of Level work on a consistent scale. Alternately, spells could keep their 1-10 scaling and be presented in a different style than everything else, and preferably be called something other than spell levels.
This will cause some confusion, and even after people learn that it's an exception, will increase the cognitive load a little. This isn't a massive game-breaker, but annoying.
It already gave me a moment of confusion when I saw that Summon Dragon (a Spell 5) summons a level 5 dragon. For a moment I thought that spell was awesome, then I realized... Not so much.
And wow I hope that isn't the general progression. A Spell 9 summoning a level 9 creature would be... Really bad. Like, astoundingly bad.
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It already gave me a moment of confusion when I saw that Summon Dragon (a Spell 5) summons a level 5 dragon. For a moment I thought that spell was awesome, then I realized... Not so much.And wow I hope that isn't the general progression. A Spell 9 summoning a level 9 creature would be... Really bad. Like, astoundingly bad.
It's in line with the playtest Summon Monster/Nature's Ally progression, where the 5th level spells summoned level 4-5 monsters. The 9th level spells summoned level 12-13 creatures.
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It already gave me a moment of confusion when I saw that Summon Dragon (a Spell 5) summons a level 5 dragon. For a moment I thought that spell was awesome, then I realized... Not so much.
We actually don't know how good it is. A Creature 4 levels down is probably not a serious threat on its own, but may well be a serious combat aid. If it's got to-hit on par with a Fighter of the same level (something that was usually true of monsters in the playtest), we're likely talking at least +15 to hit, and AC at 9th seems to very plausibly be 27 or 28 (+5 Dex and Armor +11 Proficiency +1 or +2 Armor Quality), and again if they stick with the playtest, most on-level monsters have slightly worse AC than that (to go with their Fighter level to-hit).
Indeed, based on the rough stat guesses from the Bestiary monsters available, a 5th level creature seems to have a +15 or so to hit, an AC of 21 or 22, and probably nearly 100 HP.
That's not a bad flanking buddy at all for a 9th level character when fighting on-level opposition.
And wow I hope that isn't the general progression. A Spell 9 summoning a level 9 creature would be... Really bad. Like, astoundingly bad.
We don't know how it advances. It could do all sorts of interesting things, depending. It might go up by +2 levels for every spell level you Heighten it, for example.
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It sounds from Xenocrat's comment that the actual progression might be [level at which the spell is learned]-4, which is much better. But again brings up the confusion: One, because Paizo happened to pick the one spell level where spell level and summoned creature level are the same, and two because you have to say things like "a level 7 summon spell summons level 9 creatures because 13-4=9", and people who aren't paying attention are going to wonder where the 13 came from.
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I think with those summoned creature levels, there is the opportunity to give feats, wands, or staves that do things like adding enhancement bonuses to summoned creatures, or give them level boosts.
It might be hitting a sweet spot where a default summoning spell gives you a useful HP bag and a flanking buddy, but with a little investment you have a dangerous combatant. If those spells start off summoning a closer to at-level creature they become disproportionately good without trying.
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Summon monster got really weak at high levels in the playtest. The stuff you could summon with a 10th level summon monster was barely able to hit a level 20 creature and could hit real epic threats like the Jabberwock on a nat20. That's pretty damn weak for a 20th level ability, that costs your level 20 feat and is usable once per day.
It looks like 10th level slots are no longer gated behind a feat, but I still hope they improved the summoning spells significantly. The dragon summon does look a bit disappointing in this regard, to be honest.
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I have screenshots of most of the stat block of the Young White Dragon that might be Level 5 monster.
We have all the level 10 Adult and level 15 Ancient White Dragons.
Young White: AC 23, HP 115 Bite and Claw are both at +17
Adult (10): AC 29, HP 215 Bite and Claw are both at +23
Ancient (15): AC 36, HP 330 Bite and Claw are both at +31
Lots of interesting action use and attack options in the stat block.
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Divine Lance bodes well for cantrip damage in general. 9d4+Casting Stat is respectable high level damage for something free, and I doubt Arcane cantrips are too much worse.
I am not so sure. Comparte it with a composite longbow at that lvl it 5d8+dex+0.5 Str+Runes (fire, holy etc). Given all that its likely the ranged weapon deals at the very least twice as much damage .Plus the bow has FAR longer range (divine lance should have at least 120). The one downside a ranged weapon has is...ammo.
Divine Lance bodes well for cantrip damage in general. 9d4+Casting Stat is respectable high level damage for something free, and I doubt Arcane cantrips are too much worse.I am not so sure. Comparte it with a composite longbow at that lvl it 5d8+dex+0.5 Str+Runes (fire, holy etc). Given all that its likely the ranged weapon deals at the very least twice as much damage .Plus the bow has FAR longer range (divine lance should have at least 120). The one downside a ranged weapon has is...ammo.
The weapon is also one action as opposed to two for the cantrip. That is two attack rolls compared to one, with multiple attack penalties etc. But it does look like the cantrip starts to fall behind quite a bit. The cantrips shouldn't be as good at doing damage as a good weapon used by a martial character, but when action economy is taken into account, they're probably worse than they should be. Cantrips should probably either be 1 action, or do better damage so they don't fall so far behind.
Same with some of the other spells. Like Shocking grasp doing 2d12 + 1d4 persistent seems good at first glance for a first level spell, but it's 2 actions, which means it's not really much better than a martial character with a greatsword taking two attacks. And it costs a spell slot instead of being doable all day.
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I'm reaching out to different sources I know, but no luck so far on the last few cards. 6, 20, 26, 50, 51, 72, 85
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I'm reaching out to different sources I know, but no luck so far on the last few cards. 6, 20, 26, 50, 51, 72, 85
I believe the text of 13 and 84 have been provided, but without pictures. So pictures of those two would still be useful.