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Just curious really. I've never really delved into multi-classing much to be honest, and for the most part, the way paizo's built their system, it seems to reward you for solo classing. That said, I ran into the Songbird of Doom build a while back, and fiddled around with my own version of it. I even tested it out in a scenario a friend cooked up. Lots of fun.
So, I'm here hoping I could further my knowledge on builds that dip every which way to make something fun and effective. Something outside the standard single class and hopefully past 2 multi-class builds. Perhaps expand my horizons, and inspire my own builds in the future.
So how about it? Anyone with an absurdley multi-classed, dip heavy build that's both effective and fun?
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I have a heavily multi-classes (and admittedly anime inspired) character that uses four different classes. You'd be surprised how many fights you can abruptly stop by whipping out a pair of Greatswords and waving them about like daggers. ^_^
Titan Marauder 3, Separatist* 1, Martial Artist 1, Acrobat 1+
*Gorum, travel domain.
I've posited a convoluted build before:
Half-Orc Ranger 2/Monk (Martial Artist) 1/Fighter 3/Warpriest 1/Alchemist (Ragechemist) 2/Barbarian 3 (Wild Rager)
(Not necessarily order you should take it in)
Combined you get three natural attacks (not including magic items), martial versatility making them all deal 1d6 damage, TWF with unarmed strikes (Fighter Bonus feats help there), ragechemist for unsafe mutagens, and Wild Rager to just freak out to your heart's content.
I've posited a convoluted build before:
Half-Orc Ranger 2/Monk (Martial Artist) 1/Fighter 3/Warpriest 1/Alchemist (Ragechemist) 2/Barbarian 3 (Wild Rager)
(Not necessarily order you should take it in)
Combined you get three natural attacks (not including magic items), martial versatility making them all deal 1d6 damage, TWF with unarmed strikes (Fighter Bonus feats help there), ragechemist for unsafe mutagens, and Wild Rager to just freak out to your heart's content.
Slightly better change. Switch out martial artist with mutagenic mauler, lose a level of ragechemist, and then add a level to Wild Rager.
Remain calm. It's just a monster with Anger/Drug issues...
monk Rogue inquisitor
I dip in rogue for the thug archetype so I can make opponents frightened instead of scared. With the enforcer feat if i deal nonlethal I get a free intimidate attempt.
I pick inquisitor for the conversion inquisition, so I use wisdom instead of cha for my social skills.
Then monk can flurry and ki point for extra attacks allowing me more chances. Top it with boar style for more damage, bonus to intimidate, and another chance to intimidate.
Against creatures he can fear horribly broken.
My last character went Bolt Ace 5 / Urban Ranger 5 / Fighter 2.
I suppose it helps all of those are very front loaded and full BAB so it ultimately made little difference what classes I was taking.
I've never really delved into multi-classing much to be honest, and for the most part, the way paizo's built their system, it seems to reward you for solo classing.
Well, there are legacy rules in favor of multi-classing:
1) Get +2 on all strong base saves at level 1. With enough dips you can beat a Core monk there.
2) Get all class skills from all classes. A ranger + rogue + wizard already covers every skill, resulting in +3 across the board.
3) Get the signature feature of each class: Favored enemy, sneak attack, spells etc.. After first level, signature feature progresses slowly (extreme example: ranger gets second favored enemy at level 5), but as a multi-classer, you can simply move on and grab the next level 1 goodie.
Paizo also has limited support for it:
1) They removed this annoying -20% XP penalty for multi-classing with the 'wrong' class level amount.
2) Extra X feats allow you to expand the class without taking further levels. Since X often scales with level or is locked behind a class level, this approach has limits, but should not be ignored.
3) Archetypes sometimes come with bonus feats at level 1 or 2, intended to introduce into their theme. Feats like Weapon Focus, Toughness, Diehard etc. are general enough to be of use for multi-classers also.
4) Half-elves can take Multitalented Mastery, to get a favored class bonus for each level, no matter the class. Likely you will want +1 HP each - making this feat weaker than Toughness. But given the limited sources for bonus HP, you might want both.
5) Alternatively, half-elves are relatively good at maintaining multiple caster classes. Multidisciplined gives you +1 CL to all your spellcasting classes, Bifurcated Magic adds +1 to two of them. Good old Magical Knack can still help out on classes that didn't profit from Bifurcated. Those three might be combined, depending on your GM's ruling.
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Unbreakable Fighter 1/Spelleater, Cross-blooded Dragon/Aberrant Bloodrager X/ Dragon Disciple 4
Going Fast Healer + Tumor Familiar with Protector Archetype for Survivablity.
Doing C. Smash + Cruel AotMF + Riving Strike for a -6 to saves
Topping it off with Eldritch Heritage- Ghoul for Ghoulish Claws.
Basically Bite= Shaken and Riving...First Claw Brings Cruel effect and Possible Paralysis. If they fail their save you Coup de Grace them next round.
Your HP will be very very good with Fast Healing and the Protector Tumor. I had to skip Raging Vitality/brutality cause of lack of Feats. But who needs Brutality when you Coup most targets?
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My own fox of doom is doing very good as a multiclass build. He's current at Urban barbarian 2 Mouser swashbuckler 1 vexing dodger rogue 4 and one level to be determined. I'm probably going to go warpriest 3 for wisdom to ac and cmd, then can't decide between snakebite brawler for the saves and sneak dice and BAB or Hunter So he can take animal soul and be justified when he identifies as a Fox.
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I'm currently messing around with a 95% charisma-based build.
15 Point-Buy:
STR - 7
DEX - 7
CON - 16
INT - 7
WIS - 10
CHA - 18
Level 1:
Race - Human (+2 to CHA, new total = 20)
Class - Oracle 1
Curse - Tongues (Abyssal, just because)
Mystery - Lore
Revelation - Sidestep Secret (CHA to AC)
Feat - Divine Fighting Technique: Desna's Shooting Star (from Divine Anthology, gives CHA to hit and damage when using starknife)
Bonus Feat - Noble Scion (CHA to init)
Level 2:
Class - Oracle 1/Bard 1
Class Feat - Bardic Knowledge (will be used at level 3)
Class Feat - Bardic Performance (9 rounds/day)
Level 3:
Class - Oracle 1/Bard 1/(Here's where we have options. I'm currently trying to decide between Swashbuckler, Bard, Eldritch Scion Magus, or Weapon Master Fighter)
Feat - (If I don't pick a class at level three with Martial Proficiency, I'll want to pick it up here otherwise...) Extra Revelation: Lore Keeper
This is in no way even close to fleshed out, since I just started messing around with it yesterday, but I think it has potential.
Check out Alex Augunas builds on Know Direction.
Unbreakable Fighter 1/Spelleater, Cross-blooded Dragon/Aberrant Bloodrager X/ Dragon Disciple 4
Going Fast Healer + Tumor Familiar with Protector Archetype for Survivablity.
Doing C. Smash + Cruel AotMF + Riving Strike for a -6 to saves
Topping it off with Eldritch Heritage- Ghoul for Ghoulish Claws.
Basically Bite= Shaken and Riving...First Claw Brings Cruel effect and Possible Paralysis. If they fail their save you Coup de Grace them next round.
Your HP will be very very good with Fast Healing and the Protector Tumor. I had to skip Raging Vitality/brutality cause of lack of Feats. But who needs Brutality when you Coup most targets?
How is the tumor familiar acquired?
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How is the tumor familiar acquired?Unbreakable Fighter 1/Spelleater, Cross-blooded Dragon/Aberrant Bloodrager X/ Dragon Disciple 4
Going Fast Healer + Tumor Familiar with Protector Archetype for Survivablity.
Doing C. Smash + Cruel AotMF + Riving Strike for a -6 to saves
Topping it off with Eldritch Heritage- Ghoul for Ghoulish Claws.
Basically Bite= Shaken and Riving...First Claw Brings Cruel effect and Possible Paralysis. If they fail their save you Coup de Grace them next round.
Your HP will be very very good with Fast Healing and the Protector Tumor. I had to skip Raging Vitality/brutality cause of lack of Feats. But who needs Brutality when you Coup most targets?
Crossblooded Aberrant Bloodline...Feat Aberrant Tumor
In this thread there's a bunch of builds that utilize a shield for crazy early pouncing.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2szs2?Level-5-Pounce-Need-help-with-a-Siegebrea ker
Crazy multi classing going on because 2 levels of Siegebreaker Fighter are needed as well as 2 levels of Slayer or Ranger for early access to Shield Slam and Bloodrager 1 is a good ideas for most martials.
Overall I think in a setting such as PFS where you are not going beyond level 11 martials have an awful lot to gain from multi classing. Mainly because those high level abilities that are supposed to make single classing desirable aren't ever gonna happen for you anyway.
Add to that the fact that multi classed characters can have much better saves than single class PC and can add up powerful little perks from front loaded classes and you have a nice recipe for murder.
I also like builds that multi class into strong PrCs like in the 3.5 days. Sentinel of Pharsma, Living Monolith or Ulfen Guard come to mind.
multi-classing someone to hit things well is a lot easier than multi-classing to do anything else.
fighter 5 v fighter 9 has +1 to attack and damage from weapon training increasing and probably +1 attack from greater weapon focus.
fighter 5 v fighter 5 barb 1 has +2 to attack and likely +3 damage and really only needs 1 extra rage feat to have enough rage for all their fights.
Check out Alex Augunas builds on Know Direction.
Would probably go better with hunter now...
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I can't tell you what the build is, but in my PFS group there was a messed up multi-class character that (supposedly) wasn't really planned, the character just turned out this way. It had monk barbarian and fighter in it, but i think he had at least 5 classes. Ac was something like 45 on a normal basis.
Well, there is this guy.
That Class Features tab...
*Tosses popcorn into his mouth*
...Don't Monk and Barbarian have mutually exclusive alignment restrictions?
There are ways to dip to get higher will save. But yeah, full bab dips make a solid hit them character. And a handful of non-full bab classes have lv1 class features that keep them on par. Like the champion medium, while having 0 bab, has +1 attack rolls and +3 damage at lv1, thus keeping your to-hit equal to a full bab.
I saw a build for an effective mounted combatant made of dips from a bunch of classas; with the right choices the resulting wolf mount was pretty good.
Wow. A lot of fun looking builds. Very cool everyone!
Is it even normal to go straight class if you're a martial? I plan for my builds to come online at level 6-7, so I would never have enough feats if I didn't multiclass.
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Is it even normal to go straight class if you're a martial? I plan for my builds to come online at level 6-7, so I would never have enough feats if I didn't multiclass.
Depends on the martial.
Barbarian and (to a lesser degree) Vigilante really reward sticking with them, as does Ninja (at least as far as 10th level), and Slayer really rewards 7 levels and can take a Bonus Feat every two levels (making dipping for Feats usually unnecessary), and dipping out of Fighter or Brawler for Feats is almost always not really needed (dipping out of them for other stuff, sure that happens, but not Feats).
Several other Classes also have features that dipping more than a level or two punishes pretty severely (Swashbucklers adding level to damage, or how a Cavalier's Challenge works, for example), so it's a matter of whether that feature is a part of your build in those cases.
On the other end of the spectrum, more than five levels of Gunslinger is usually a waste, Cavalier is easy to dip out of and maintain a full Animal Companion if you don't care about Challenge, and several other Classes reward dipping for various things.
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My friend had a Fighter/Skald/Paladin that pretty tanks everything. Not a very creative build, but very effective. He walks into a room, and asks the GM before combat "do they even have a chance of hitting 34 AC without rolling 20?" and "Do they have enough intelligence to know that?"
i'm currently planning a Brawler/Cavalier grappling/feinting build that may dip into Drill Sergeant (Fighter) and Unchained Rogue.
Half-Elf Zen Archer 3 / Eldritch Guardian Mutation Warrior 4 / Exemplar 2 / Castellan 1 / Vigilante 2
(Not PFS legal)
The point of the multiclassing is basically to get as many feats as possible.
At level 7, you and your familiar both ready two ranged attacks per round with Overwatch Style. And since you're using Concentrated Fire you'll roll twice for attack rolls. While each hit will lower the enemy's saves by -4 thanks to Hindering Shot (Weapon Trick).
At level 12, that's 4 attacks per round and a total of -32 to saves if all attacks hit.
May I introduce you to the Gunslinger (pistolero) 7, Monk (Far Strike Monk) 4, Paladin 3.
At 14th:
Revolver +17/12/+7 on touch, for 1d8+15
AC is a solid 30, Touch 22, Flatfooted 23
Fort: +19
Ref: +21
Will:+19
Between Grit, Ki, massive saves, flexibility, a paladin's immunities, a monks flurry, etc... I have respectable damage output and great survivability, plus feats galore. I'm kind of awesome.
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Bloodrager or Barbarian 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Dragon Disciple 4/ Eldritch Knight can really load-up on a lot of different physical and spell-buffing assets. Just using Controlled Bloodrage + Dragon Disciple 4 + Heroism + Monstrous Physique (Gargoyle) grants: +10STR, +2attack, +2saves, +4AC, and Fly 30. This is on a character whose BAB never drops below "full BAB -3", who can easily start with 18STR, who has two high-Will-save classes, and who can wear mithral medium armor with Arcane Armor Training. Overall spellcasting ends up being just -1CL with Magical Knack, grants significantly more spells/day than a Bard, and benefits from 1-2 Bloodline Arcana bonuses.
I just made a build that seems interesting.
Half Orc Inspired Blade 1/ Emissary/Honor Guard 5/ Duelist 6
Plus the feat beast rider, I get a triceratops Mount.
I have opportune parry and riposte in case of emergencies, 5 AoO's, the parry ability, bodyguard feat, and Swift Aid. Plus Order of the Dragon and honor guard boost Aid Another to +4.
Just, picture that on a battlefield. The Duelist doing all that atop a Triceratops.
A friend and I came up with aasimar 4 reg monk 4 enlightened paladin 3 chevalier x disciple of irori it had like mid 50 ish ac and touch and the low save was in the mid 30s and able to swap ki into smite was retarded tooWe "threatened" our GM with the all monk evilness party it was going to be this hell spawn teamed up with a zen archer, crazy weapon flurry sohei, and a 1 cleric x monk bad touch build to take advantage of Medusa's wrath min ac on the team was in the mid 30s at lvl 6,7,or 8
That sounds hilarious. Care to spell 'em out a bit more for giggles and grins? :)
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If you aren't using the Unchained fractional advancement rules then one option for an extremely multiclassed build is to take 1st level in a lot of full BAB classes which get two or three 'good' saves to stack up the 1st level bonuses.
Single class characters have +6 or +12 for each save at 20th.
UnMonk/Paladin/Ranger/Brawler/Slayer/Gunslinger/Battle Herald/Holy Vindicator/Master Chymist/Stalwart Defender/Arcane Archer/Champion of Irori/Chevalier/Ulfen Guard/Shieldmarshal/Lantern Bearer/Pure Legion Enforcer/Skyseeker/Inheritor's Crusader/Justicar would yield;
Fort 23, Ref 16, Will 14
At which point, you can potentially skimp on save boosting stats and items and assign the extra resources to boost other options.
Conversely, if you ARE using Unchained fractional advancement then it becomes much easier to take dips into multiple 3/4 or 1/2 BAB classes without completely destroying your total BAB.
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I've a Paladin 2/Brawler 2/Swashbuckler (Noble Fencer) 1 in PFS right now, who's going for 2 levels of Medium next, followed by Fighter (Brawler).
He flurries with Unarmed Strikes while in full plate and heavy shield, and thanks to Snake Style, his Unarmed Strikes are piercing weapons for Swashbuckler goodies. Also thanks to Snake Style, he can use Sense Motive in place of touch AC as an immediate action, and the Noble Fencer Swashbuckler archetype lets him essentially use derring-do on those checks. Medium and Fighter levels are for cranking up the attack and damage bonuses. Saves are through the roof.