SheepishEidolon's page

Paizo values our subscribers as the backbone of our business

I'd say the backbone of your business is thoughtful innovation. You introduced ideas like subscriptions, pawns, flip mats, completely free online rules, strong support for third party etc. And seemingly it worked pretty well for you, in general.

Instead of clinging to a business model that becomes increasingly brittle when campaigns increasingly happen online, trust in your capability to innovate.

How does Centered Spell interact with Lightning Bolt (and other line spells)?

Centered Spell (Metamagic)

Source Legacy of the First World pg. 23
(...)
You can center the area of a spell with an area effect and duration of instantaneous on you, and exclude yourself from the effects of the spell.

Lightning Bolt

(...)
Area 120-ft. line

Couldn't find anything online, surprisingly. My interpretation is

The book "Cheliax, the Infernal Empire" has some official random encounter tables. For level 5 the following could be useful:

Heartlands
* a few hellfire ignises (CR 3 each, introduced in that book)
* a few centaurs
* 2 fiendish owlbears
* a few redcaps

Hellcoast
* a few hellhounds
* a bulette

Longmarch
* 2 giant dragonfly nymphs
* a few host devils

Menador
* a few shadows
* an erinnyes

Ravounel
* a few hellfire ignises (again)
* Asmodean inquisitors

Sirmium
* 2 bison
* a drowning devil

The book has a few cool new monsters in general, you might want to check out the AoN page.

Maybe the encounters can foreshadow a kind of enemy, give a clue for an upcoming mystery, or drive home the flavor of oppressive but opulent Cheliax.

As a GM, I don't love PF1. At least not the mechanics and their presentation: Huge stat blocks, long spell descriptions sometimes and cross-references back and forth. In actual play, fiddly rules questions and condition tracking can unnecessarily bog down the game.

Still my players love the character customization, and I feel that, too. So I continue, but cut corners when it comes to preparation, a bit more every year. I have like a dozen houserules, and most of them are about simplifying the game (while keeping the interesting stuff). Who knows, my table might become like one of these 3.5 tables, houseruled to the point where the original system is barely recognizable.

Beyond that, I like the setting. It has something for everything, including many opportunities to add your own ideas. I wouldn't GM another AP for a while (too clunky, too railroady), still some of them make great reading material. And I had a great time collecting all the pawns.

With published adventures, a GM can not only save a lot of time in preparing for a game or a campaign

Actually, I end up with roughly the same prep time for both homebrew and published adventures. The latter mean little time spent on content and artwork. But they also mean spending time into understanding foreign stories as best as possible, as well as dealing with mechanics you probably wouldn't bother with otherwise. Adventure specific subsystems are the worst offenders - you have to understand them, consider and research whether they are worth the trouble, and (if yes) find a way to squeeze them into your notes.

To be fair, published adventures have other benefits, too. They save you from writer's block, and they help you to provide your players with something innovative, something you wouldn't have come up yourself.

And when you don’t have a group to game with, even the simple act of reading a published adventure can help you feel that you’re still connected to your hobby until you find a new group to game with.

That's true and really helps to make the adventures worthwhile. Thing is: If books are made for both GMs and normal readers, a few compromises are necessary. "Adventure backgrounds" that span more than an entire page and very detailed NPC stories are nice for a reader, but have limited use for a GM. On the other hand, full stat blocks are rather material for GMs, not for readers.

I prefer DR and resistance being viable from low to high level without changing it all the time.

Hrm, you could go with of x percent reduction, from older editions. It works for any level and rewards fighting a challenging foe in different ways than usual. A demilich with DR 20/- just encourages Power Attack further (YAWN). A demilich with 75% reduction of physical damage has a chance to make players of martials think out of the box (once they are done with complaining).

Hm. Amazon, my usual dice source, doesn't have these yet. Nor does Paizo. :-( The links above are to Q-Workshop's home site in Poland.

Well, the dice didn't make it to Germany yet, either. And we are neighbors of Poland. I guess QW tries to sell the first wave on their own, demanding a premium price from collectors who don't want to wait. At least one German retailer plans to sell them for a third less...

I GM on VTTs since 2016, and never spent a dime. The platform would deserve some money actually. But the subscription model really puts me off. I would constantly feel obligated to a) use the time as best as I can and b) reconsider whether it's still worth it. It's not really rational, but it drives my decision.

Further, I don't find most token packs or maps an attractive offer. The art commissioned by Paizo looks better IMO, so I rather go through the lengthy process of adapting PDF content to VTT.

The only thing that tempts me so far is high-quality and exclusive content like well-made spell effects.

Yeah, static initiative is an option. The +10 doesn't change the order, but given that you do the math only on few ocassions, it doesn't matter much.

I honestly can think of no viable workaround to play PF2 without rolling dice and bookkeeping.

I did some research lately:

Static initiative (as above).
Draw cards - either generic or custom with (N)SC images.
Alternate between all SC and all NSC.
Alternate between single SC and single NSC.
Let the current creature decide who's next (popcorn initiative).
Let them decide who's next but it must be a creature of the other side.

These options change balance and feeling somewhat, of course. It can be partially compensated: Give creatures with high initiative a second card (they act on the first drawn) or do one roll per side to determine who's first etc..

I am not too happy with "roll initiative". A battle is about to begin, excitement rises - and the game grinds to a halt, for rolling dice and bookkeeping, excitement cools down. Yes, there are workarounds, but an approach that is faster or more interesting by default would be welcome. Even if it's just mentioned in a sidebar.

I'd offer them a new alternate capstone every level beyond 20, instead of new class abilities (they still progress at the steady stuff). Choosing one seems to be a meaningful decision, even at that character level. This will lose steam after a few levels, though, after the more interesting capstones are taken.

Personally, I'd rather worry how to challenge them before the final fight. There are not so many CR 21+ creatures in the books, and they are usually supposed to be unique. Improving CR 20- creatures comes at the risk of the players' question "Can't we fight something epic?". And building level 21+ NPCs can be quite exhausting, unless you excel in efficient preparation (library of NPCs, building blocks, reskinning, skipping unnecessary details etc.).

Also be careful with the duration of your campaign. Every month comes at the risk of losing a player, so playing year after year might result in a campaign cancelled before the end. If you want to go beyond 20, consider leveling quickly - unless your players are diehards with unwavering motivation, solid health and neverchanging private situation.

My group almost finished battling Crimson Throne's plague, some twists came up:

Since the gnome bard is into saving animals (and other creatures), Devargo had to be parted from his pseudodragon. Unfortunately, he sold the little fellow some moments ago, and allowed the frightening buyer to visit the lower part of the ship. When the heroes insisted to follow, combat ensued, with Devargo ending up dead. In the belly of the ship the party encountered Rolth with some zombie pseudodragons - and the wizard didn't get away, despite multiple tricks. Ugh. At least he just turned unconscious, so they brought him to the Guard citadel, not being sure about his identity. When they moved on, some Grey Maidens took Rolth to the castle and it was publicly announced that they caught someone responsible for blood veil. Soon enough, the party will encounter Rolth again.

The party witch cured a friendly gnome's blood veil. In return, he wanted the NPC to play a joke on the gnome bard PC. I still have to come up with something funny, hopefully an Internet search will provide enough inspiration.

The raging barbarian killed Ausio Carowyn in his manor because the noble held a knife in his shaking hands. The players spent more time on dealing with this murder than on cleaning the manor. Jolistina had a few strikes at them, but they rather found her odd than terrifying (sigh). Either way, after handing Ausio's corpse over to the temple of Sarenrae they were overly cautious when they found the hospital. They knew something was off, but nobody was willing to start a fight with official authorities. So they tried multiple other things, up to (down to) searching for a sewer entrance to the building, meeting some moderately friendly wererats on the way. At the end they were quite frustrated that they "didn't make progress" - I expect them to play more aggressively next session.

The only lawful character, a member of the Korvosan Guard, got arrested by the Grey Maidens for "loitering" (they monitored the hospital during night). He obediently walked with them, until close to the castle. Then the player panicked and started a fight. The four maidens were barely able to scratch him (high AC), one went down but didn't die. They retreated, but now I have to make up... consequences.

The Kickstarter is online. For those who are curious about Owlcat's stance: They actually advertised BKOM's campaign in their latest update.

Since personal code came up a few times, here is an official take on it:

To qualify as lawful, a personal code must be more than a set of consistent emotional responses to certain situations-especially if the code licenses you to break society's rules. It must be rigid, be reasonably detailed (at least for your character; there is no need to roleplay all the minute lifestyle details at all times), and include your own obligations as well as precepts you expect others to follow. Crucially, you must be committed to honoring these obligations even at cost to yourself.

A code of personal honor is entirely compatible with a chaotic alignment, provided this code is simple, serves to limit the constraints on yourself (and possibly others), and springs from a fierce internal conviction. Your sense of obligation is personal, not imposed by rules and structure; indeed, determined ly self-sufficient souls often feel their obligations more keenly than others around them.

I had fears that BKOM, a mobile/indie video game company might try and be too ambitious with doing their games for Pathfinder. But seeing them keeping it simple with an ARPG is kinda nice.

Same here. Better a Pathfinder ARPG at least some players enjoy than a RPG that never gets released. Or worse, released in horrible shape, with no hope to ever become polished...

Most of the AP's are written with Good PC's in mind, since the objective is some variation of save the world, rescue the princess, defeat the evil god, etc.

Hrm, the goals usually encourage good PCs indeed, but the player's guides show a mixed picture:

Characters of all alignments, religions, and homelands can play a vital role in this campaign

The plot of Iron Gods makes no assumption about PC alignment.

Even evil adventurers (with Game Master permission) might enjoy that same fame and fortune, or see every reason to take revenge against monsters who wrong them personally or destroy their property.

Characters of all alignments, religions, and nations of origin have a place in Brevoy and the River Kingdoms

Even evil characters can, in theory, function in Return of the Runelords, although as is always the case with evil PCs, you’ll want to work with your GM and the other players to ensure that such a character isn’t disruptive to the group’s cohesion.

Characters of all alignments, religions, and homelands can play a vital role in this campaign

Almost everyone, whether good, evil, or purely self-motivated, stands to lose considerable freedom and safety under the rule of Tar-Baphon and legions of the dead, and so alignment isn’t necessarily limited by morality or ethos for Tyrant’s Grasp so long as characters can agree that the Whispering Tyrant and the Whispering Way must be stopped.

That's not counting Hell's Vengeance as well as Skull and Shackles.

Evil and good characters working together just doesn't work well in a game. There's a reason the rules themselves tell you it's a bad idea.

I guess it usually doesn't work when players simply start playing their idea of evil.

But Paizo published a few good books on playing evil in a functional way, like Agents of Evil, Champions of Corruption and the Hell's Vengeance Player's Guide:

Players are remembered that evil PCs still have allies, a sense of self-preservation and no obligation to act evil all the time.

Evil party members can solve problems in their own, efficient ways, without burdening the precious soul of their comrades - a quick poison neutralizes an annoying bureaucrat, not necessarily killing them.

They can result in unusual enemies which can be interesting to interact with - ever tried to talk an archon out of exacting justice?

They can be a wildcard when enemies are only prepared to fight good adventurers - they don't care about blasphemy, circle against good etc., and might simply take control of enemy undead.

Evil characters can be subject to redemption. They can be (LE) minions by nature, readily accepting orders, even though they will relucantly remember their masters that there are... other options.

Alignment restrictions have a chance to make players explore something else than their usual behavior pattern. Appearantly many players start their roleplaying careers with an alignment close to their real life attitudes, and some seem to pretty much stick with it for decades. If a class they desire forces them to play something else, they can grow on it.

Luckily not every martial character relies on picking a two-handed weapon and Power Attack. It's a valid playstyle (and makes PF more accessible due to its simplicity), but personally I appreciate the variety Pathfinder offers, from sword and spell to natural attacks.

At least one AP has creatures that were affected by charm person for a while - and developed enough rapport to voluntarily stay with the caster afterwards.

Falling in love after a while is possible in real life, but in my experience it's never as intense as love on first sight. Which is not necessarily bad, due to lower expectations, healthier lifestyle etc..

Finally I'd differentiate between love (wishing the other creature the best) and being in love (feeling attracted to them). The item seems to cover only the latter, but of course either feeling can support the other one.

At some point, I thought it would be an interesting twist to have a rod of lignification, based on a wood oracle's lignification revelation. Think flesh to wood, once a day, only some rounds. But you probably guess it already: It ended a boss fight very quickly.

Since then I disallowed / nerfed such effects, and wouldn't use them as a player.

Instant Enemy doesn't work against targets that are already your favored enemies. And usually you will pick common or dangerous foes as favored enemies, reducing the potential of the spell.

Nevertheless, when it works, it's pretty good.

Just because he asks for a solo campaign, you are not obligated to do exactly that. You could offer him to watch a session of your usual players, with the chance to control a pet or summon sometimes.

Just a warning: A casual interest like "oh, I watched this movie, and now would like to try it" often results in "ok, not my cup of tea". Especially if they invested little time and effort to make it happen. Don't make it too comfy for them, let them read up some stuff on their own, and let them make their own decisions (even if they are quirky or mechanically ineffective).

I'm pretty sure there's recruitment boards on other parts of these forums.

Yeah, there are some PF1 APs in the recruitment section, with a varifying degree of modification.

I am running Curse of the Crimson Throne right now, after a homebrew campaign. Ironically, it doesn't really reduce my prep time, because I spend a lot of time at getting familiar with story details and sometimes mechanics I wouldn't use otherwise.

I will be back to homebrew afterwards, using APs only for inspiration. PF2 APs usually don't appeal to me, only Abomination Vaults piques my interest.

Now, if it were more polished than Owlcat's games

Owlcat had a dedicated crew and they really struggled to port a good share of the ruleset to a computer game. I remember Kingmaker's bug infested start. Many studios would have given up on fixing such a mountain of issues.

If I were at BKOM, I'd try to motivate everyone to learn as much as possible from the past. A light-hearted approach will succeed only on a natural 20, unless the scope of the game is really reduced.

I'd love to know more about what exactly is required for learning the secret handshake.

At least their wiki can be read by everyone.

I start at level 1, but I don't throw very deadly foes at my players at this level. Together with Pathfinder's safety belt (don't die before -Con score) they are safe to explore their new characters.

Wizards and sorcers might struggle, but I'd tell such a player: You don't have to do two-digit damage at level 1. The martial PC might dish out such amounts, but then the player sacrificed a lot of utility in favor of damage. And a good share of it will be wasted, most of the time - a standard goblin has 6 HP. A Knowledge check can also contribute to combat, as well as identifying enemy spells or demoralizing a foe.

Finally, starting at 1 means we have more time before Pathfinder gets into higher level play - a stage where the game IMO becomes less fun: Weaker class balance, more bookkeeping, fewer possible noncombat challenges, longer combat duration.

I'd like to build a character that can really fit the region of Varisia, and could maybe have a few more RP opportunities in the campaign.

Since Varisia is more wilderness than civilization, I'd recommend the class that is the most likely to be a freelancer: Oracle.

Both elves and aasimars will meet one of their kind in book 1, although in very different ways. Otherwise human seems like a stronger connection to the campaign, given the mostly human starter town and the secrets you will discover later.

The town has a priest of Desna, so worshipping the same deity would offer some chance to build a bond to a NPC. That's not much, but with Ashava you'd get nothing.

gdotbat wrote:

What about the 3 action economy system? This is what Starfinder really needs.

Integrating 3AE into SF is not something that would be easy to do for a number of reasons.

Pathfinder Unchained managed this relatively well for PF 1E, within 8 pages. Since Starfinder uses the same clunky "standard action, move action etc." system as PF 1E, Unchained's "Revised Action Economy" is probably a good starting point for any Starfinder GM who wants the 3 acts system.

If you know languages beside English, you might find a localized physical copy at a reasonable price.

The "Digital content" / "My downloads" section of the page could use... vast improvement. There have been a few statements suggesting it's work in progress, during the last few years, but appearantly there was no major change.

Maybe a complete overhaul is simply too much of a project. In this case, splitting it into small improvements would help incredibly. User's life could be easier even with just a consistent order of "File Per Chapter" and "Single File", by stripping repeated "Paizo Adventure Path" entries in each line or by starting downloads automatically, after watermarking.

A good package. Minor issues: "Troubles in Otari" uses the flip-mat image for the adventure. "Flip-Mat Classics: Anceint Dungeons" has a typo.

Some mysteries offer an improved version of mage armor as a revelation. It scales with level, has some special effect later on and can be used in 1-hour increments (hence it's basically "all day" after a few levels).

Given that you basically want to play a sorcerer with healing capabilities, I wonder whether unicorn or phoenix bloodline might be a better fit for you...

Breakdown for campaigns I GM(d):

Giantslayer, abandoned at level 9
Homebrew, finished at 21
Homebrew, put on hold at 5
Curse of the Crimson Throne, ongoing at 4

So, in a strict sense it's only 25%.

Breakdown of campaigned I played:

Homebrew, ongoing since 2013, level 8
Curse of the Crimson Throne, joined and left at 8, but I guess the GM finished the campaign at 17 (lost contact though)
Kingmaker, joined at 1, campaign imploded at 2
Rise of the Runelords, joined at 4, campaign fell asleep at same level

In a strict sense it's 0 of 3 (ignoring second one due to uncertainty), respective 0%.

Maps of Casmaron are scarce. Would it work to move the action to another desert?

You could also pick a random RPG desert map. Since there is (appearantly) no official material, nothing contradicts your take.

Finally, you can paint something on your own. Tools like Wonderdraft vastly simplify the creation of RPG maps.

As far as I remember, they publicly considered the special treatment of undead (and constructs) overly complicated, so they turned everything into Con based. Should be true for PCs also, but you can ask at the PF2 rules section to be sure.

would be a shame to lose PF1, but if they don't want to fight that battle that's their call to make

Let's start with a disclaimer: I don't endorse piracy. Good books should be rewarded with buying them.

But in such a scenario Paizo could find unusual allies among pirates. While illegal copies are currently undesired, they would become a boon once the books are no longer allowed to be sold legally. They still have the chance to spark interest in buying legal books (such as PF2), and they would undermine Hasbro's lawful evil policy. All Paizo would have to do is to stop fighting piracy of PF1 books, once the scenario becomes reality.

However, the bigger issue is whether they need to sleep or not.

A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which she spends 15 minutes concentrating.

Note it's "concentrating", not "preparing". Only prepared casters prepare.

Also keep in mind that Melkiador replied spending his free time, in a quite patient way during his first two postings.

Keep in mind this is assuming the cleric in question is good aligned, because i know the whole bad touch concept is a thing, but not only would i not know where to start, i want to make it a non lethal bad touch build and i dont know if i can do that while good aligned

Every CG deity offers the Chaos domain, with its bad touch available at level 1. Your PC will have to be CG himself.

Beyond that, you can always prepare inflict spells and combine them with metamagic. Merciful Spell is obvious if you want it to be nonlethal, you can add conditions with Sickening Spell or Fearsome Spell and at some point you might want Quicken Spell. The Magical Lineage (inflict light wounds) trait should be helpful. You won't win the powergaming prize 2023 with that, but it might be good enough for a given campaign.

I wonder about the motivation of such a move (if it's true). Sure, it might put a lot of pressure on competition and even drive some of them out of business. But WotC barely has the ressources to rehash old stuff - do they really think they can keep all these players interested in the hobby? Do they hope to completely dominate a very small market instead of being the biggest fish in a small one?

And as a third-party producer, I'd avoid working with such a company in any way. If they pull such a move once, they might do again.

EDIT: Finally, if only half the affected companies allies to challenge WotC, both on business and legal level, I wouldn't bet on WotC.

It seems like it can be addressed with encounter design, too.

1) If encounters are split among the entire day, mage armor loses a lot of value. Maybe something harasses the group again and again, maybe you have to dig for hours to progress within the dungeon, maybe it's just a random encounter.

2) If enemies target touch AC or CMD, mage armor loses value, too. Maybe a ray attack gets combined with sneak attack, maybe adventurers get bull rushed into a pit, maybe it's a class ability to target touch AC (bolt aces can pull it at level 1).

Of course a GM shouldn't overdo it. If regular AC remains as an important defensive value, players have something to flock towards to. Reducing the importance of regular AC too much means further encouraging the already dominant paradigm "kill it before it kills you".

Why send the paladin and not someone else?
If it must be the paladin, why it has to be Bluff instead of another solution?

But ok, let's roll with it. A paladin could lie (no matter the codex) and afterwards ask for atonement. Because he sincerly blames himself for not being able to come up with a better solution, and he will strive to improve.

As GMs, we trust ourselves to play all alignments in a proper way, even as we spend only little time on fleshing out some of our characters. So IMO we should trust players to be able to properly play a single evil character. At least some of them.

Sheepish, you would strongly dislike my current tables lol! One of my players has a PC in both of my games and he helps direct PCs towards the following pattern in both

Sounds like a healthy injection of chaos is in order (pun intended).

It's a complex pattern and relies on a lot of things, so it's rather fragile. What if no plot hook comes up and players are supposed to find their own goals? What if no sources for investigation are available - maybe they are stranded alone in the middle of nowhere? What if being fast is actually detrimental - perhaps they have to wait until full moon anyway? What if the situation changes heavily after their scrying etc.?

If they have to improvise, they might notice it works out and is more fun also (well, for some people, at least).

I banned scrying spells since such a cautious playstyle is not what I consider adventuring. They might be back at next campaign, though, to allow players that playstyle if they really desire it.

Beyond that, I changed effects that neutralize opponents (anything beyond staggered / slowed) to allow a new save at the end of each round. By now I saw this in action for some sessions and IMO it works well, although a crafty player already figured out command isn't handicapped at all. Nevertheless, this houserule avoided a ban on such effects.

I am thankful that most of my players don't feel the need to gravitate towards (IMO) problematic material. They seem happy as long as they feel the challenges are fair and they get to shine (which can require me making a fool of my NPCs, but that's part of the job).

To me, honestly, a +2, +2, +1, +1, +0, -1 just sounds like a peasant farmer who doesn't wear shoes. Or rather, since that is exaggerating for effect, it sounds like an NPC village guard or town merchant. It does not sound like a hero or champion.

IMO, heroism and championship are more about attitude and deeds than capabilities. At least heroism is way more convincing if there is an actual challenge - superhuman stats actually undermine that. To use an extreme example: Superman stopping a mundane bank robber is not heroic, it's something he does without any risk. At least for himself, he still has to care a little bit for innocent persons involved.

Sure, with more power the scope of heroic deeds increases. A high-powered PC can save the multiverse, while a low-powered one might struggle to drive off a bunch of goblins. IMO both can be equally heroic.

Weapon Quality / Resizing Source Giant Hunter's Handbook

Hrm. So if someone wants to annoy you with an antimagic field, you simply throw a net with this property. The property gets suppressed, and the weapon turns back into the Colossal sized weapon it originally was, hitting the antimagic field caster with 96 pounds. Yeah, that's a nice mental image.

It's appearantly rather a guideline Paizo used internally. See rogue, ninja, alchemist (visectionist), vigilante (stalker), slayer + VMC rogue and probably more. Accomplished Sneak Attacker's text made it somewhat public.

At high levels monster HP scale quickly and there are increasingly powerful other ways (than HP damage) to neutralize them. So it's no biggie if the guideline is broken with a 2nd or 3rd boon.

I don't think encumbrance is a good way to counter Str dumping. Players will be affected mostly at lowest level, when their Str dumped wizards are (relatively) weak anyway. They know that after a few levels things will get better, so they might accept the issue for now and dump Str anyway. And since their GM didn't pull punches when it came to encumbrance, why should they when they have medium and high level spells at their fingertips?

Personally I'd rather modify point-buy: A 7 nets only 3 points, meaning only 1 point more than an 8. Suddenly the decision between both scores becomes more interesting. And having some score below 10 makes a character more interesting IMO.

I appreciate the lowered prices for accessories (maps, pawns, cards etc.).

But personally I think the digital store here rather has a convenience problem than a pricing problem: Downloading multiple PDFs could be much more convenient. An outline how it could be:

1) You don't have to login again just to access your digital content.
2) There is a well-sorted gallery of your assets, fitting to the structure on the rest of paizo.com.
3) Names are shortened to the relevant part. Nobody needs 20 lines starting with "Pathfinder Adventure Path" in a row.
4) There are images of the book covers.
5) All these versions of a book (one chapter per file, lite etc.) are presented
6) You only have to click an asset once to mark it for download. If Paizo wants to stick with watermarks, they can be added silently before the user actually downloads (see 7)).
7) Once you are finished with selecting books, you click "Download selected" once. The result could be a ZIP with 0% compression, they are created pretty fast.
8) The files are named consistently and user-centric. My preference: When I buy the Advanced Player's Guide, I don't want PZOabcd.pdf, I want Advanced Player's Guide.pdf.

Sorry I wasn't entirely constructive, but the download section annoys me every time I have to deal with it.