[Fire Mountain Games] Throne of Night


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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

I just received my custom art from Mr. Clarke. (He mentioned I was pretty early in the line for this, since I contacted him right after the Kickstarter funded).

I'm blown away by how awesome it is. It was definitely worth the wait (and the expensive pledge level).


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Oh man, just got an update from the kickstarter.

Was pretty glad it wasn't an announcement of surrender on the project.

Stuff in the works looks amazing as usual, just hope it's not another few months between this and the next update.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Man, that update got me interested. I'll be looking forward to this being finished and up for regular purchase.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Man, that update got me interested. I'll be looking forward to this being finished and up for regular purchase.

Indeed.


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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm still giving Gary the benefit of the doubt. The new update shows he is still comitted to finishing the project. That is good enough for me, although indeed, he could have been more communicative before. But I dont mind if it takes another year. It's not as if I don't have any adventures left to play.

Grand Lodge

Zaister wrote:
I'm still giving Gary the benefit of the doubt. The new update shows he is still comitted to finishing the project. That is good enough for me, although indeed, he could have been more communicative before. But I dont mind if it takes another year. It's not as if I don't have any adventures left to play.

Agreed. Communication is definitely key for future ventures. I'm hoping he'll still do the Way of the Wicked sequel, but with Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance coming out he'll likely step away from that. No one likes to "challenge" Paizo with similar scenarios. Still, it wouldn't technically be the same as it's supposed to be a "you're a descendant of the conquerors and you have to spread the kingdom's authority to an uncharted island." Still evil though.

Whatever he chooses to do, while I know others have already stated that they won't support Gary's ventures until all of the books come out, as they feel burned (and I don't blame them for feeling that way), I'll go face first like I always do when it comes to his projects.


Lord_Hyperion wrote:


2. "The guy has a writer´s block"

For real. And the baddest case of it I ever heard of! Cause apparently this mysterious writer´s block of Mr. McBride encompasses writing my adress on a package to send me the (already written) WotW books I payed for two f#&%ing years ago.

+1. AllThough I'm in the patient camp this definitely rubs me wrong too. He should send out WotW.

Grand Lodge

Thanael wrote:
Lord_Hyperion wrote:


2. "The guy has a writer´s block"

For real. And the baddest case of it I ever heard of! Cause apparently this mysterious writer´s block of Mr. McBride encompasses writing my adress on a package to send me the (already written) WotW books I payed for two f#&%ing years ago.

+1. AllThough I'm in the patient camp this definitely rubs me wrong too. He should send out WotW.

According to the update, he plans to send everything in one giant lump sum. Makes it cheaper, and it'll also allow time for errata and corrections to be made.


I hope it all gets finished. I might buy it.


I can get behind that. Some of the pledge levels where not very thought out esp. The international postage.

I would have paid a bit more if he'd have but asked.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
KenderKin wrote:
I hope it all gets finished. I might buy it.

As long as the entire path is available, I'll pick it up. The same way as Way of the Wicked. Somehow I doubt he'll show up at PaizoCon for me to get it signed like before.


Well, that art is amazing I'll say that. And while I'd prefer things sooner rather than later, at least it appears its still on its way.

I definitely want to get at least up to #3 with my group

Grand Lodge

A former player of mine is currently running Way of the Wicked. They're partly through Book 2 at the moment, and is hoping that at least Book 4 will be done by the time they're done the campaign.


Hello folks. I've been keeping up and researching the news around this KickStarter in preparation for a blog post. As I am not a backer and the KickStarter page only allows backer comments, I wanted to ask here if any backers of Throne of Night received PDF copies of the released books, as well as copies of Way of the Wicked. It's clear to me that the physical copies have not shipped yet, but PDFs are typically faster and easier to provide.

I'd also like to note that upon checking the Drive-Thru RPG/RPGNow pages for Books 1 and 2 of Throne of Night, the print-on-demand options for purchase are no longer available and it can be obtained only in PDF format now.


Books 1 and 2 have been released in PDF form to backers, and the custom art prints have been fulfilled as well.


Thank you for the information. Are you one of the backers? If not, do you have any links of backer discussion, KickStarter or otherwise, confirming this?


We have also received in PDF the seventh book in the way of the wicked series as well the first six if ordered. But no physical copies of any books from either series.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Is there any way to get that seventh book now? Or will that remain backer exclusive?


It is called Tales of Talingarde and is available on rpgnow for $10.00 as far as I know


I ordered a copy of the book 7 in Way of the Wicked off of Drive-Thru RPG's print on demand service if that is any help.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Much appreciated!

Grand Lodge

New update from Gary on KS. More art, and some people haven't gotten back to Mike yet on what they want for their commissions. So if you haven't received an e-mail from him, check your spam/junk folder, and hope it didn't already get deleted after the standard 7 days. That's where I found mine.

Grand Lodge

I haven't been updates much lately. Mostly because I'm been crazy busy with Pathfinder Society stuff, and the Convocation that's happening next month. That said, I came across something a little while ago, and was just reminded of it when I came across it once more.

The Perstermin from Abandoned Arts More Gremlins is a hunchbacked gremlin with mushrooms growing out of its hump. While I question the crunched numbers for hp, attack and CMB/CMD. I'm not seeing anything that could constitute the low numbers when you only have a -2 involved. Even more strange is the -5 melee attack when a cane is a finesse weapon. Well, the sword cane is. Makes sense though.

At any rate, this would be a perfect creature to add, and make part of the mushroom forest. With its Dex, Int, and Cha, it could be a rogue, bard, wizard, sorcerer (likely the fey bloodline), or arcanist.


I received an email from Kickstarter today - it was an invitation to take a survey about my experience using Kickstarter.

The interesting thing was, once the survey started, it was asking specifically about my experience with the Throne of Night Kickstarter.

Have any of you received a survey like this?


The survey chooses a random project you backed. I got "It came from the Stars."

Grand Lodge

I got mine, but haven't done it yet.

EDIT: Doing it now. It's for a completely different project.


Spoilers abound

I am currently running a loose version of the Dwarven side of this campaign. I say loose because I have added a ton of stuff and because the players have refused to engage several of the plots. They are playing a group of fairly xenophobic dwarves who had no interest in saving a bunch of silly gnomes or exploiting stonecutting and trade. They blew through the gnome town and left it for the Drow. They briefly pondered the lake in the fungal jungle, but decided not to risk the water and boats so they turned north and headed for the jumping off point. I beefed up the defenses of the Drow or they would have cake walked through them, and the good news is that there is a Drow/Orc army (I gave the Drow a bunch of genetically improved Orcs to give them some muscle/shock troops, figuring they wouldn't be inclined to die in wars of conquest). I changed Vothys so that the path goes under the tower and they had to go into the tower to open a close door or they would probably just have flown around those encounters. They have their pants on fire to find Dammerhall (which name they immediately rejected and renamed Hammerhold). The funny thing is that the players are aware there is no book for Dammerhall, but the characters are hellbent on getting there as fast as possible.

Also, I told them at the beginning of the campaign that they had to be diplomatic at some point and they couldn't just kill the whole darklands. They aren't sure they agree with that.

In the next couple of sessions they will head down into the jumping off point, which they tend to call the Maw because they met some troglodytes who call it the Maw of the Great Wyrm before they met the gnomes. I like that different cultures have different names for the feature. The Drow call it the path of bats.

Once they get to the bottom, I am going to ditch the fact that this connects to the surface. They didn't come all this way to come back to the surface, that will just make them mad. I am also going to put a Thassilonian ruin down here somewhere in the Earth's Wound. Still looking for a dungeon for that, maybe something from PFS or adapt one of the adventure path dungeons. I need to do something to stall until book 3 comes out.


Endzeitgeist wrote:
The survey chooses a random project you backed. I got "It came from the Stars."

Oh, I was hoping they (Kickstarter) were targeting this project for feedback. I'll go back to forgetting about any resolution to this poor investment.

Grand Lodge

tumbler wrote:
Spoilers abound

I'll be honest. I don't think I could handle your players. At this point it's not even the original game any more. It's just extremely loosely based around it.

If you're looking to stall for time, I highly suggest adapting this adventure that I found, and talked about earlier in the thread. Essentially, have it be that the mine was originally for Dammerhall, sorry Hammerhold, but something about a curse hit it, so it was abandoned, and they had to move to another location for mining operations. They may or may not take the bait. It's a bit high for levels, but that can be adjusted of course.

There's a couple of Thassilonian maps if you do a Google search. I couldn't find much else, sadly.

If you can get your hands on the AP Castle Whiterock, by Dungeon Crawl Classics, that'll have lots of scenarios and suggestions for you. It's 3.5, but it'll definitely help. There's more drow, an underground slave arena, dragons, gates to alternate worlds, etc. My group's currently going through that entire path. Just skip the whole "travel back and forth from the town to the mountain" idea if they don't want to go to the surface at all.

Another idea would be to really old school it and use the 2nd Edition adventures from the old Dungeon Magazines 67 and 81, and use their underdark scenarios.


Any ETA on the rest of the AP?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ejrik the Norseman wrote:
Any ETA on the rest of the AP?

NEVER! Hahahahaha - oh wait, I kickstarted this to. Damn it.

Grand Lodge

Ejrik the Norseman wrote:
Any ETA on the rest of the AP?

Sadly, no. The way he's been talking I'd like to assume the end of September.


kevin_video wrote:
Ejrik the Norseman wrote:
Any ETA on the rest of the AP?
Sadly, no. The way he's been talking I'd like to assume the end of September.

Nothing I have read in any of the updates gives any indication of a timeframe. After three updates in a row of "Hey look at this neat artwork, more progress coming, stay tuned!" I am quite cynical about when/if we will see anything out of this project.

What will win my confidence back is *details*. Good details, bad details, it doesn't matter at this point. Even an honest, regularly updated admission of "I am overloaded, I can't make a firm projection, please bear with me" would be better than the long stretches of silence punctuated by links to art. I can't run a campaign on artwork.

Grand Lodge

Unimportant wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
Ejrik the Norseman wrote:
Any ETA on the rest of the AP?
Sadly, no. The way he's been talking I'd like to assume the end of September.

Nothing I have read in any of the updates gives any indication of a timeframe. After three updates in a row of "Hey look at this neat artwork, more progress coming, stay tuned!" I am quite cynical about when/if we will see anything out of this project.

What will win my confidence back is *details*. Good details, bad details, it doesn't matter at this point. Even an honest, regularly updated admission of "I am overloaded, I can't make a firm projection, please bear with me" would be better than the long stretches of silence punctuated by links to art. I can't run a campaign on artwork.

I was thinking more about how he was telling us what each book was about. How he summarized everything so neatly, showed the art for each book, minus a few that Michael was still working on at the time and is now finished as of the last update. One of his updates said that Book 3, 4, and the side adventure were both about half done. That was a couple of months ago. I'd like to think that in those two months that Book 3 would be at least 3/4 done by now, and 100% done by September.


kevin_video wrote:
tumbler wrote:
Spoilers abound
I'll be honest. I don't think I could handle your players. At this point it's not even the original game any more.

We've been together once a week for 14 years, so I am used to them. If they were being jerks as players I might ask them to get on the railroad a little, but it really is all character motivated. The players are on board. We have a strong preference to avoid meta gaming, sometimes even to the point of self sabotage, so that takes some getting used to. We were pretty close to a TPK in Vothys and they were ready to kill off their dwarves and roll up the Drow who had killed them to keep the campaign going.

I've learned over the years not to grow attached to anything and to expand the parts of the world they are interested in. Everything ends up being a sandbox, but I have piles and piles of stuff to go to.

Thanks for the adventure ideas. I had seen some of those earlier and picked them up. I have pretty much every Dungeon. If we can't get book three soon enough, I am going to just adapt the maps from Dragon Mountain.

I also plan to add some Serpent folk and maybe a beholder in there somewhere. We haven't fought a beholder since Pathfinder came out.

Grand Lodge

tumbler wrote:

I've learned over the years not to grow attached to anything and to expand the parts of the world they are interested in. Everything ends up being a sandbox, but I have piles and piles of stuff to go to.

Thanks for the adventure ideas. I had seen some of those earlier and picked them up. I have pretty much every Dungeon. If we can't get book three soon enough, I am going to just adapt the maps from Dragon Mountain.

I also plan to add some Serpent folk and maybe a beholder in there somewhere. We haven't fought a beholder since Pathfinder came out.

You're braver that I. I like having the same character if an adventure has a Point A to Point B storyline. Any new characters just don't have the same investment.

Serpent folk are always cool to run into. I guess worst case would be adapt the Spider Queen 3.0 scenario. You can be drow taking in other drow, or outsiders taking them on. I've played it twice, doing both variations.
And of course beholders don't exist for legal reasons, but if you were to hunt down The Book of Forbidden Lore, they converted all of the monsters we aren't supposed to use anymore.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So, I'm running Way of the Wicked, about to 1/3 of the way through book 5...Was hoping to run this, but since it has been 2 years in the making, might move on to something else...I don't like starting something without the completed works in hand...I could always start, and if it's not done, pick up the writing of the end myself, but that requires work, which I don't have the time for...

Gary, give us an update please?

Grand Lodge

Patman wrote:

So, I'm running Way of the Wicked, about to 1/3 of the way through book 5...Was hoping to run this, but since it has been 2 years in the making, might move on to something else...I don't like starting something without the completed works in hand...I could always start, and if it's not done, pick up the writing of the end myself, but that requires work, which I don't have the time for...

Gary, give us an update please?

It's extremely doubtful that you'll see an update on here from him. The best thing would be to Google the KS project for updates. So far we at least know the synopses of each book and there's loads of pics. Theoretically, you could adapt it and go from there. We're hoping to have Book 3 by November. But you're correct in thinking that you should probably do a different adventure path after you complete WotW. If Book 4 or 5 is not out by the time you're on Book 6 of WotW, I'd definitely consider it. There's lots out there.

Grand Lodge

For those of you who want to see a really cool underdark adventure in the Night Below, check out the latest Pax D&D adventure hosted by Chris Perkins and the guys from Penny Arcade. I think this is by far my favourite adventure that they've done to date.


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Well there´s something I really need to say: while in the meantime I really and absolutely resent my involvement with this whole project (not because I need to wait on product but because I don´t like being treated like s**@ by someone I threw hard-earned cash at) I would like to thank Kevin_video form the bottom of my heart, for spreading news, giving advice and bringing to our attention stuff we might need to better the campaign. Way to go dude! Way to go!

Grand Lodge

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You're quite welcome. I've been quiet as of late, but mainly because of how busy I've been. I'm hoping to get back writing and my blog (how to improve and add to Way of the Wicked) now that life's calmed down.
If anything comes up, I'll be sure to share here anything that can add to Throne of Night.


kevin_video wrote:

You're quite welcome. I've been quiet as of late, but mainly because of how busy I've been. I'm hoping to get back writing and my blog (how to improve and add to Way of the Wicked) now that life's calmed down.

If anything comes up, I'll be sure to share here anything that can add to Throne of Night.

What blog? How about a link?

Grand Lodge

KenderKin wrote:
kevin_video wrote:

You're quite welcome. I've been quiet as of late, but mainly because of how busy I've been. I'm hoping to get back writing and my blog (how to improve and add to Way of the Wicked) now that life's calmed down.

If anything comes up, I'll be sure to share here anything that can add to Throne of Night.
What blog? How about a link?

It's just a tumblr, but I've set up a link under the "Ask me a question" for the WotW changes so that anyone who wants to only read the changes can click on that, and read only those.


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kevin_video, I'll second Lord_Hyperion's praise! I've enjoyed your recent blogs in particular. Sound's like you run a much higher powered campaign than I'm used to, but your changes have been insightful and enjoyable to read.

Grand Lodge

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I'm glad I can be of service to you guys. I'll keep doing what I can in the future. We're all in this together.

I'll add this little tidbit, and probably on Book 1 as well (just a copy and paste), and then eventually on my blog. I'll make this spoiler free for those that haven't read the first book.

Book 1 end encounter:
The baroness that you meet at the end of Book 1 (whether you play drow or dwarf), is not CR 8. She's CR 9. Drow nobles are +1 CR due to all of their increased abilities and stats, and she has nearly 28k in wealth. That's another +1 CR. However, that's not what everyone's upset about. It's the fact that she's not proficient with armor. So? The rules state that she just gets double the armor check penalty. Mithral shirts don't have any. They do still have the 10% spell failure though. I can see Gary looking at that, and thinking the 10% mischance balanced things out. If it was breastplate or chainmail, I'd have been more lenient, but 10% isn't much of a handicap when you're a level 8 NPC. So, here's my suggestion. Make her CR 9. Gives the PCs the extra XP for defeating her. They deserve it. However, increase the wealth to the full 30k that she should have. How? 1) Give her armor the Caster Armor quality (Dragon Magazine 358, p39 for 400 gold, reducing her spell failure to 5%. 2) She has no neck slot item, and this is a 3PP adventure and we're not that concerned with copyright stuff with a homegame, so give her a Drow House Insignia (scroll 1/3 down the page) at level 2 for 2160 gold. Give her a 2nd level spell that you personally feels fits her drow house AND fits your version of the campaign world. This makes her 150 gold over, not including her spellbook and narcotics, but oh well. If wealth is a big deal for your campaign world, and you think this is too much, just give her a 1st level insignia for 360 gold instead of the 2nd level.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
kevin_video wrote:
For those of you who want to see a really cool underdark adventure in the Night Below, check out the latest Pax D&D adventure hosted by Chris Perkins and the guys from Penny Arcade. I think this is by far my favourite adventure that they've done to date.

So cool!

Thanks for pointing it out to me.

kevin_video wrote:
Serpent folk are always cool to run into. I guess worst case would be adapt the Spider Queen 3.0 scenario.

Book 5 of the Serpent's Skull AP also has a ruined city of the Serpent folk, though it might be a little too high in level at this point as written.

Ruyan.

Grand Lodge

RuyanVe wrote:
Book 5 of the Serpent's Skull AP also has a ruined city of the Serpent folk, though it might be a little too high in level at this point as written.

I'll admit that I haven't read that one. Likely too high. That said, the 3.5 adventure "Shrine of the Feathered Serpent" is level 12, so probably too high as well. If you have access to the 3.5 Serpent Kingdom Forgotten Realms book, there's four adventures in that which could be converted if necessary.

Grand Lodge

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I was going through the Minions book tonight, looking for random encounters that I could send after my PCs, when I came across the deep fey. They're only CR 1, but they're usually LG alignment. Then I thought, why send them after my PCs? They could be allies. Well, unless you're evil.

Their background is that they protect weakened areas of the Material Plane's underground that could be attacked or manipulated by evil beings who wants to create earthquakes or even see an entire city crumble into the underground itself. A race of eternal protectors? I like that. Only CR 1, but they're fey. They're rarely a threat to begin with at 1/2 BAB. Just add class levels, and it should be fine.

The cavern wolf is another creature that seems rather interesting. A pack of wolves that hunt in the underground with their blindsight. They're magical beasts, but I doubt anything short of templates and lots of advanced hit die would really make them much of a threat after a certain level.

Those of us who have been following the updates on KS, know exactly what the PCs are in for during books 5 and 6. It's a whole other world with those. So much so that maybe it's dangerous that they learn of this knowledge. Perhaps certain people don't want them to tell others, especially the outside world, about what they've learned and seen. This is where the Secret Eater comes into play. These are a group of clerics with additional supernatural abilities such as Erase (an advanced version of Modify Memory). If your PCs are Doctor Who fans, you could totally play them up to be variants of The Silence. I think the best part is their costume sort of looks like Spawn, but without the green eyes. Change their Rebuke Undead to Channel Negative Energy, and you should be good to go.

Have PCs extremely paranoid about mimics? Make them even more paranoid with the slather. This creature can replace doorways and cave openings, and your PCs just walk right into its mouth to be swallowed whole. Can't tell because its tongue can manipulate itself to form a set of stairs.

I've always disliked ropers. So much strength drain, and when they're above you, you're essentially toast. Then comes along the lassoo. Weaker versions of ropers, and ugly as sin. That 25 ft. long tongue certainly doesn't help.

Finally, really gross out your players with the gutwrench aberration. That's the name of this game, anyhow. Think of a rhinoceros with all of its muscle tissue exposed. It's 9 HD, but because it's 3.5 it's missing 1 feat. I highly recommend Intimidating Prowess. With Str 30, and being ugly as sin, it's bound to scare at least one PC.

I'll mention the charrel just as an honourable mention, but let's be honest about this creature. Who in their right mind would send a creature after the PCs that quite literally snorts flammable snot rockets at characters? That's just gross.


I've been lurking for a long time, but I just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading your updates and suggestions. I'll have to get this book now!

Grand Lodge

El Ronza wrote:
I've been lurking for a long time, but I just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading your updates and suggestions. I'll have to get this book now!

lol I almost have to ask which book? Complete Minions, or Throne of Night? Complete Minions is 3.5, but I honestly wish it got an Pathfinder update. That said, I'd really like it cleaned up because it REALLY needs it. So difficult to read, and unbalanced. I'm really hoping that book 3 comes out soon as right now I've really only been able to add things for books 1 and 2. That said, the dwarf mines adventure works best after book 3 because of everyone's level.

I'm glad you like what you're reading though. Thanks for that. Feedback lets me know that it's all worth it. I sometimes wonder if I should keep going as with the project being so behind, I didn't figure anyone came by anymore.

Once I'm done with the Way of the Wicked series, which I'm currently updating on the forums as well under each individual book, I'll be looking to do the same thing with Throne of Night. You can check my current updates on Tumblr. Top of the page, I've linked the WotW articles. I try about once every 1-2 weeks to do an update. The car accident behind me really behind schedule.

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