Just finished reading the adventure. I am impressed. This actual feels like the start to an epic quest, and I am excited to see how the rest of the AP pans out. Minimal padding and pointless crap. A manageable number of well-defined NPC companions.
Congratz to authors Brian Duckwitz and John Compton on writing what looks to be a pretty great adventure.
One question::
Ardax leaves the party at the end of chapter one, but in the closing paragraphs of chapter three he is back again with no explanation. Was this an editing oversight, or did I miss something stating he rejoined the caravan?
The primary reason I would visit the Paizo forums is to read the Story Hour/Campaign logs of other groups playing through the Pathfinder Adventure Paths. With the rise of podcasting and Youtube-ing, this kind of post has taken a nosedive.
I used to post a lot of my own session logs too, but as I grow older and have less time, I have not been doing this as much. Also, I found myself gravitating to 5e and other systems, for a variety of reasons.
It frustrated and confused me that Paizo did not do more to cross-promote Pathfinder for Savage Worlds. One or two blog posts and that was it. No sub-forum, no nothing. Since you went to the effort of collaborating with Pinnacle on that line, I would have hoped for more.
Pinnacle killed their own forums a while back, so there is nowhere else to post about PF4SW, at least for those of us who don't use Reddit/Discord.
I loved how Shattered Star and Return of the Runelords followed on from, and built on the events of Rise of the Runelords.
I did not love whatever Curtain Call was trying to do with the whole, janky-ass Nemesis system. IMO, the AP would have been stronger if you had picked one defeated villain (the artwork semed to suggest you favored Belcorra Haruvex, although I would have preferred Barzillai Thrune) and really leant into that, shifting CC from Indirect Sequel to Direct Sequel.
I appreciate why you did it the way you did it, I just don't think it was very good.
...but in the end we also have to make each one stand alone, because there are some folks who only run one or two books or use them for other purposes ... Making each volume capable of being self-contained for those reasons results in some sacrifices....
The notion that each entry in an Adventure Path is treated as a stand-alone, self-contained module is very strange to me, and perhaps explains why I have been gradually falling out of love with the AP line. Has this always been the modus operandi, or is it a recent development in line with changes to the business model?
Sacrificing campaign cohesion to appease some lunatic who only buys 1 book in a 3/6 part AP is straight-up bizarre. :s
Yeah, folks complaining about the reveal being "underwhelming" are doing it a bit of a disservice, I feel ... All of which is why we'll never be revealing the details of how and why Aroden died.
Now I am convinced he did something dumb like accidental self-defenestration or switching seats while driving, and you're not gonna' tell us cos we'll take the piss.
Thankyou for posting your review and sharing your thoughts on this AP. I sincerely hope the Paizo writing team take on board these observations and adjust their output accordingly.
I have spent the better part of an hour poring through all three volumes trying to work out who sabotaged the gala, before thinking to check here. How the GM is supposed to resolve this without making massive changes to the campaign as written is beyond me. Either Ruzadoya is the mastermind and does not get turned into a graveknight since she knows what's coming, or Zibik is much more hostile and pro-active than presented in the adventure. Either option would require massive re-writes to make sense.
I'm flabbergasted this was overlooked.
EDIT: Ok, how about this. Ruzadoya is responsible (possibly working with a third party), but her sister Vandalya is not aware of her intent. When the seedbag erupts, Vandalya is killed. Ruzadoya is overcome with rage and guilt, and proceeds with her plan to take over the Wildwood Lodge as written, blaming everyone but herself for her sister's fate.
EDIT 2: Maybe Vandalya is the one to come back as a graveknight, working with Ruzadoya without realizing who is responsible for her death. If the PCs can proove her sister's guilt, she fights along the PCs to defeat Ruzadoya.
Suggestion for the Paizo team: get in touch with Scott McClintock and co over at Quill & Cauldron to see if they are open to doing a ' Doomed Golarion' in the style of the Doomed Forgotten Realms line they have released on the Dungeon Masters Guild.
Rise of Vecna
https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/385544
Fall of Vecna
https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/421754
Reign of Rot
https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/450868
Wrath of Zuggtmoy
https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/468752
This team puts out some epic content, and I would love to see their take on a Doomed Golarion where every major AP was failed, resulting in an increasingly hopeless setting.
Plus, they will probably let us fight The Whispering Tyrant (properly, not counting the much maligned heroic sacrifice in Tyrants Grasp), which would be awesome.
Do you not still have the PDFs to GM from? Back when I maintained an AP subscription, the 6 physical books went onto Ebay as soon as the set was complete, but I can still run every AP from RotRL to 7DfS (even the rubbish ones - looking at you Blood Lords).
Spoilers for Glass Cannon Podcast, season 2 (Gatewalkers);
:
One PC (the catfolk Lucky) was killed by Bolan very early in the campaign. Troy ain't pulling no punches. They are fast approaching the Kanepo fight, so we'll see how that shakes out in the next few weeks.
A few times now, the players (mostly Joe) have asked: "Is this encounter really written for lvl 2 characters?!"
If you want to make Calmont a sympathetic character, you'll need to make changes to the AP. He might be at the Call for Heroes (at Voz's orders, to report on anyone taking an interest in Hellknight Hill or the mercenaries she has hiding out in the woods), but not set fire to the town hall. He definitely should not appear threatening goblins in the dungeon.
He could appear in Voz's shop, if/when the PCs break in, or alongside Voz when the PCs encounter her toward the end of the AP.
If you want to keep the fire, you could have Voz give Calmont scroll to summon fire mephits after the PCs have made a nuisance of themselves and order him to burn down the inn, or whatever building the PCs are staying in, which he will do out of fear.
Maybe we can all stop discussing Way of the Wicked and let money-thieving, Kickstarter-defrauding, safari-loving Gary McBride fade into the obscure ignominy that his actions have warranted.
I bought Warlock! after I saw Warpstar! advertised on EN World. I'm planning to run a streamlined version of The Enemy Within campaign in January 2024.
I would say Compendium 1 & 2 are nigh essential, and I'm hoping the career expansion (Earn Your Crust) is reduced over at Drivethru for Cyber Monday.
If you do decide to run something on the PbP forum, I would be interested in playing.
If you wipe it off the servers to save space, then Paizo is changing it's practice/policy and customers will not be able to download previous purchased PDFs.
So they issue codes to download the same PDFs from Drivethru, as many Kickstarters do with digital content. Problem solved.
Oh, so one sweet part is that you get to design your own picture of dwarven craftsmenship while helping to build out part of Torag's Shield, and my character was in charge of that part, so now (at least in our game) there is the story of how clan Runebinder bravely crafted weapons for the great warriors to defeat their foes.
If memory serves, don't the players get to keep and continue using 'ghost' versions of the cards they had equipped at the time? I may be misremembering that, as it's been awhile since I read this module.
The 'heroes gather artifacts only for villain to swoop in at the last moment' trope is pretty common across many genres, so I would say go with it. If your players are pissed, direct that frustration towards getting even with the villain.
I have a story hook planned, where the characters at lvl 4 enter a lair of a cult, and after clearing it they meet the BBEG and it's servant, a Thanadaemon. BBEG says to take care of them and leaves to find new cult members to do his bidding.
Thanadaemon instead summons his boat and takes players to Abaddon, where they have to travel to a safe haven from which they could return to the Universe. Perhaps through Outer Rifts and Hell's layers.
There is a free mega-dungeon called Escape from Carceri available on Drivethru RPG right now, that sounds perfect for what you are describing.
How about a three part heist themed AP, akin to Keys for the Golden Vault, but with an over-arcing storyline? Outlaws of Alkenstar skirted the edges of this territory, but never fully committed. You probably wouldn't be able to write it as a conventional AP, requiring more of an urban sandbox to really shine.
I dropped the catacombs of wrath entirely, as their only real purpose to is to level up the PCs before Thistletop, and foreshadow the larger dungeon crawl at the start of book 5, which I also cut. The campaign did not suffer as a result.
The Sandpoint article mentions an abandoned house on Chopper's Isle, previously occupied by the bird-carving serial killer whose name I forget. The party visited the house, found his secret murder workshop and fought the killer's ghost. They also picked up some Pazuzu themed cursed treasure.
I really like many of the changes that you made to this campaign, but I only see your notes going up into chapter 2 (with mention of chapter 3 and 4). Did you ever finish this campaign?
Since their last update was 2017, I'm guessing not. :D
If memory serves, you find evidence of necromantic activity under Hellknight Hill, then follow a secret tunnel to the basement of an inn in Breachill. The tavern owner can then tell you that Voz has been using the tunnel, and I guess the hope is that players will assume she is the bad person they are after.
EDIT: last poster beat me to it, by 24 hours, lol.
Maybe so, but the book doesn't direct readers/customers to the Archive of Nethys. Whether or not you can get your hands on the particular ruleset for (cue jingle) Paizo's BS Subsystem of the Week isn't my main gripe, it's that being bombarded with multiple subsystems per module is exhausting and subjectively bad.
Subsystems: Paizo loves their subsystems. Only that many of them don't work (Caravan system from Jade Regent) or are terribly unbalanced (original kingdom rules from Kingmaker 1E). Encountering one which actually is not terrible (like the rebellion rules in Hell's Rebels, which are just a bit boring, but functional) is always a big plus.
I will - and recently have - marked AP volumes down in review because of what I perceive as an unnecessary and egregious use of subsystems. I'll grudgingly concede that managing a caravan or organizing a rebellion justify the use of a subsystem to keep track of everything across the course of the entire campaign, but recently we have seen subsystems to handle the most trivial bs imaginable.
An NPC has information that could help your investigation? Better start gathering Influence points!
You're being chased by an angry bloke with a big stick? Let's hope you can accumulate enough Evasion points to escape!
Do you want to buy that cool magic item from the skeezy merchant? He's not gonna' sell unless you've collected enough Negotiation points to satisfy his weird and inconvenient compulsion to haggle.
... and so on. Usually followed by a blatant advertisement to buy whatever splat book that particularly subsystem appears within.
Sure, I can - and will - cut this stuff out of any AP I actually run, but having to read this [content] on an initial assessment of any module is dull as F.
That sounds awesome! Only two issues that spring to mind; access to an airship will make boarding Graveraker trivial, and potentially enable the party to bypass the majority of the Grey Queen's Tower.
It wouldn't be a Pathfinder AP without their signature Convoluted & Unnecessary Subsystems! But yeah, this chapter (and the start of book 2 for that matter) have a weird lackadaisical energy.
If I had to run this module, I would have the PCs investigate the shop and learn the bad guys are already searching the marketplace for Merchant with Next Card/s, then have the battle occur in the middle of the market. PCs get more cards, portal to Harrow Court opens, and you're into chapter 2.
I have attempted to streamline the plot of Mantle of Gold for conversion to Savage Worlds;
:
PCs in dwarven city of Highhelm.
PCs meet furtive/hooded dwarf Elbert Glassgrinder (WC), who wants to mount expedition to recover Skysunder (long lost clan dagger of First King Taargick) from the Darklands.
(Elbert is really Krohan Veldollow, who was previously exiled for stealing - and losing - the dagger. He hopes returning the relic will end his long banishment).
Elbert believes the lost dagger is located in the abandoned gnome enclave of Guldrege, which was abandoned after being destroyed by a giant crimson worm.
A dwarven patrol recently went missing near the ruins of Guldrege, the gate guards ask the PCs to keep an eye out.
Krohan provides a giant beetle to serve as a pack animal.
The way to Guldrege is blocked by a fungal forest, the party can press on (A), or seek another path (B);
A: fungi release poisonous/mind-altering spores. Most of the missing patrol have been turned into fungal zombies (2x per PC, plus 2). Fungal zombies explode when they die.
B: Survival rolls to navigate winding tunnels and remain on course (Dramatic Task). Success results in an uneventful journey to Guldrege. Failure results in the party getting lost, consuming their rations and arriving in Guldrege Fatigued.
The ruins of Guldrege surround a gaping hole in the floor.
A tribe of troglodytes (4x per PC, spread out among the ruins) have claimed the ruins as an outpost, who sacrifice prisoners by tossing them into the pit. The dagger is in the possession of troglodyte priest Hhrulkaz (WC), and has become tainted by its use in sacrificial rites.
Captain of the missing patrol Elga Longbraids is chained to a rock, pending sacrifice.
A basilisk nests nearby and occasionally prowls the outskirts of Guldrege for an easy meal.
Before anything else, the cursed relic must be cleansed. Elbert knows a young priest called Heldin who can perform the necessary rites. During the ceremony, vengeful spirits (1x per PC + 1) emerge from the blade and try to disrupt the ritual. Elbert is possessed, as are any PCs who fail to resist.
After cleansing the relic, the party should present themselves before High King Borogrim the Hale. Elbert reveals his true identity and asks for his long exile to be ended. The PCs (and Elga Longbraids) may speak up to sway the King's decision.
High King Borogrim leads party into highly secure vault full of dwarven artifacts. They present the dagger to statue of First King Taargick, which animates and instructs them to find his lost tomb.
The party need a guide to help them find Zogototaru the Avernal Worm, who will lead them to King Taargick's lost tomb. The only guide mad enough to brave the crimson worm's tunnels is a deep gnome called Jirelga. Unfortunately, she is currently in the clutches of the Black Noon Thieves Guild after she attempted to rip them off. The guild is lead by tattooed brute Tuom Molgrade (WC), and consists of many Black Noon Thieves (3x per PC, spread across the area). The guild have set up shop in an abandoned foundry.
I am curious how Jirelga is supposed to know the whereabouts of the Avernal Worm though. Is it a case of "Hey, this thing ate you once, where is it now??" I'm guessing it'll be some kinda 'the trauma of being eaten alive formed a strong mental bond with the beast' nonsense, but I suppose we'll find out next week when the PDF drops.
I've not particularly enjoyed the first two thirds of this AP, although it is not without intermittent and isolated merits. Having read Worst of All Possible Worlds this morning, I started thinking about how I would restructure the AP for play at my table.
:
PCs receive Harrow cards and are drawn to Absalom.
PCs gather enough cards to open gateway to tbe Harrow Court.
PCs gather some more cards via portals across Golarion.
Harrow Court attacked by Raven Nicoletta and the Prince of Wolves.
PCs are defeated and forced to retreat. Raven Nico!etta caims their cards and the Prince of Wolves claims the Harrow Court.
PCs summoned to the Tree of Answers for audience with the Norns. PCs are given the power to confront Raven Nicoletta and the Prince of Wolves, and the opportunity to sway the Norns from their course.
Return to the Harrowed Court (now a desolate wasteground) to confront the Prince of Wolves and rescue the epitomized harrowkin.
PCs transported from Harrow Court to the Nexus of Fate (demiplane) for final confrontation with Raven Nicoletta.
If the PCs did not sway the Norns from their course, they appear to reclaim the Deck of Destiny as Raven Nicoletta falls, and the PCs must defeat tbem too.
I would also dramatically reduce the number of cards in the Deck of Destiny, and by extension, the amount of time the PCs spend on their long ass scavenger hunt, IMO the weakest facet of this AP.
Also, the next game I run will defo have a sausage vendor called Wurst of All Possible Worlds.
Additional information about the ruins of Kho are presented [in the Destiny War], but if you're looking to expand on what's provided, Pathfinder Lost Omens The Mwangi Expanse contains an overview of the Ruins of Kho on pages 168 - 173.
Are there detailed maps, NPCS, specific monsters, described places, artifacts, magic items on Kho ?
"Additional information about the ruins of Kho are presented [in the Destiny War], but if you're looking to expand on what's provided, Pathfinder Lost Omens The Mwangi Expanse contains an overview of the Ruins of Kho on pages 168 - 173."
Before you abandon your campaign, I feel compelled to recommend Savage Worlds, or Pathfinder for Savage Worlds. Medium crunch, low prep, laughably easy to convert content for. It may or may not be right for you, or your group, but it's definitely worth a look.
I've not read either book in an age, but what immediately sprung to mind was running The Palace of Fallen Stars pretty much as written, but have Unity be the BBEBG controlling the Technic League from the shadows, and place the Godmind beneath Starfall. The PCs deal with Osmyn Zaidow as written, then find a secret lift down to the final confrontation with Unity. You'll need to jiggle the party level a bit, but - Boom, campaign over.
I gave some thought to converting this to Savage Worlds, with a recurring house rule that the GM can spend a benny to have a recurring villain automatically escape, which mitigates the risk of the players annihilating a major bad guy the minute you bring them into play.
I was going to have Deputy Loveless and her corrupt Shield Marshalls lay siege to the bank the PCs rob in book 1, and have her participate in a chase scene through the scrapyard (the plan was to cut the whole section with the goblins and the cannibal gnolls entirely).
You could have the PCs encounter Mugland at one of the locations they visit while investigating the Powderkeg Punks, or he could invite them to one of his properties to sound them out/bribe them to give up Gattlebee's location?
I would also remove Parsus and the Alkenstar Falls chapter altogether, and go straight from defending the gunworks to infiltrating the Gearsmoke.
EDIT: I'd also change it so the Gearsmoke belongs to Mugland, and he was planning to hold a secret auction for the Pyronite bomb on board. If he dies in book 2, Loveless takes over. If he survives book 2, the PCs can deal with him there.
An alternate interpretation is "usually female and almost always the main character, a Mary Sue is often an author's idealized self-insertion, and may serve as a form of wish-fulfillment".
It just dawned on me how much this AP is ripping off - sorry, paying homage - to Final Fantasy 10. Evil whale monster? Check. Escorting Mary-Sue VIP on spiritual journey? Check. Travel between different worlds? Check. If we have to win the Blitzball cup in book 3, then so help me....
Yeah, I did consider adding "IMO" afrer the fact, but the person below had already quoted me and I didn't want to alter my post again.
I completely agree with what you just said, re: subjectivity. My review is written from my personal headspace, with the added caveat that I am reading it as a non-Pathfinder player who is looking for material/storylines to convert to another game system. I completely gloss over the stat blocks and specific rules for traps/hazardous environments, as I will be rebuilding those myself.
For these reasons, I found The Seventh Arch to be lacking, but other people will have their own reasons to like or dislike the module, whereas NVM seems to have taken umbrage with my apparent powers of time travel more than anything else.
The big difference between them being I actually read it before submitting my review.
I restarted my subscription following the ORC announcement; received, read and reviewed the PDF copy of this book, then cancelled my subscription because I found it to follow in the recent trend of being, well, bad.
But in response to NVM's not-really-a-review, I have adjusted my own review score to 1 star, just to "balance things out".
