Given all the inherent problems with continuing to level spellcasting classes with no spells available past 4th level ones, you may want to consider just going the full Monty and capping *all* classes at, say, 6th to 8th level...
IOW, why reinvent the wheel when "E6/P6" has already been done and hashed out in thorough detail?
Eric Hinkle wrote:
I checked out the description for Mythic Monsters: Halloween, and it looks pretty good. I was especially amused by the 'mythic mobs'. I imagine that they're troops?
What leaped to my mind was the museum scene in The Mummy...
Or, substitute the chanted name of your favorite demon lord/Great Old One/BBEG here...
Seven Sins are tangible force, tied to the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Death = Pride other three get 2 sins each, still figuring out who gets what. Tied to Old Gods
Keeping in that spirit, I'd say that Famine should be Greed and Envy, Disease should be Despair and Sloth, and War should be Wrath (naturally). Lust I'm having a hard time fitting into this paradigm.
I count it because it was a stretch goal. You personally may not have paid for one, but it's still part of the overall deal. Just as the additional adventure with the half-God prince needs to count for ToN despite it being an extended chapter unto itself.
Should a stretch goal from an entirely different AP have taken precedent over actual Throne of Night material? Just sayin'. ;-)
I came to realize today that last Saturday (May 7th) was the three year anniversary of the project being funded. Three years, three books.
TWO books. AFAIC, the Way of the Wicked book does *not* count. I didn't pay for it, it's not part of Throne of Night by any stretch of the imagination, therefore it doesn't count (even if he offered it as a gift/bonus).
Amora Game wrote:
(Purchaser here) Adventurer class, if you please. :-)
Wouldn't we all, but if wishes were fishes...
It's now been over two years since we last got a Throne of Night module. It's been over nine months since we heard anything about a release schedule. And it's been almost six months since we heard ANYTHING PERIOD.
Seriously, this project is dead.
In case anyone's been curious, I've been to Michael's site and I've seen a lot of 2016 stamped pictures. At the very least that means that Gary's still commissioning him to continue with the artwork for the book series. That's at least some comfort.
Has Michael himself confirmed this? Because it's entirely possible that he just did a ton of concept work for ToN when it was first commissioned, and is just finishing it out for his own reasons.
And if Gary *did* commission it... why hasn't he bothered to keep us informed (the perennial question in this interminable KS project...)?
Even I have to admit that I'm losing faith. I looked it up. It was Oct 2014 that David first did his own summary of how books 3 through 6 should go. It was around that same time that I discussed various monster adds, and adventure substitutions. That means for a year and a half, I've supplemented the AP and gave it tons of filler. At least David (Weslocke) summed everything up and left it to the GMs on how to finish things. I just padded things and gave false hopes.
Gary's lack of candor and good faith does not invalidate all the hard work you have put into helping those of us stuck in the middle of a (now dead?) adventure path. Your work - and the work of the artist Mike Clarke - is greatly appreciated.
You have ZERO blame here. It's all on Mr. McBride.
While I am not personally a fan of the idea of 'always evil'/fundamentally evil sentient beings, and tend to go in the opposite direction when I'm homebrewing stuff like that, I think this is a pretty slick/more 'truthful' way of handling a world with monsters, which I like. It also very much reminds me of greek myth, where there's *Specific* things that are relating to and creating these dangers - especially Typhon & Echidna. Instead of the fantasy kitchen sink, there's a reason the monsters exist.
Definitely a slick move. I'm also on the anti-cumpulsory alignment idea. Too many aspects of alignment are subjective, but at the same time outsiders with alignment subtypes are forced to play within the rules of alignment (lack of free will, often). However even with a non-compulsory alignment system where a Lahmia could protect a village from eradication by zealots, having the monsters in some way linked back to an evil deity (Medusa I would think for this) does explain their typical state of alignment
RE: non-compulsory alignment for monsters - you guys should check out this great blogpost on the subject of religion in the context of a campaign world. The author does a great job of running with this idea, by declaring that monsters are "evil" because their gods are evil, and thus their basic religion will tend to warp them towards evil.
RE: free will for monsters - dragons are a good example of that in my campaign. They were originally creations of "Lamashtu" (to give my aberration goddess a good parallel Golarion name) for use as shock troops in a divine war. Half of the dragons (the ancestors of the metallics) rebelled outright and switched sides to the Lords of Light. The ancestors of the chromatics stayed on Lamashtu's side during the war, but made it clear that they fought for their own purposes, not hers - and just because she created them didn't mean they owed her any favors. ;-)
In my homebrew, I specifically tie all the monsters (any non-mundane evil creatures) I use to three evil deities, either directly or indirectly. For instance, the evil god of battles and destruction [think Khorne-clone] is the patron/creator of orcs and goblins, giants, and various beastmen/lycanthropes; the goddess of twisted creation for aberrations, dragons, magical beasts, and oozes; and of course, a god of death for undead. The point is, there are no "willy nilly" creatures that just show up with no reason - if it exists, one of the gods (or one of their servants) created it for a specific purpose (perhaps long forgotten). These deities are known by different names to the creatures worshiping them (the aberration-goddess may be known as "Big Mama" to the ogres, but is called "Lolth" by the drow), but they remain the same three gods.
For the opposing good pantheon, I broke out the remaining domains not assigned to the evil deities and grouped them logically, and eventually came up with nine deities (called the Lords of Light), each with three associated domains. I also specifically use the houserule that clerics spontaneously cast domain spells rather than healing spells, to give the pantheon and its associated characters some flavor.
What? Why do I constantly never get any of these? He's released at least three of them and I haven't gotten even one. I feel so left out. So much for being a big supporter. Totally not recognized at all.
Don't feel bad - I haven't received a single one either. In fact, this is the first I have heard of it.
Seems like every bit of news I hear about this lately puts Mr. McBride and FMG in worse and worse light...
When was the last update?
Depends on your definition of the word "update". :-/ The last two official updates (August and October 2015) were art-only. The last update on the text was July of last year, where Mr. McBride announced that the last four modules would be released as a package. Before that, he had been promising Module 3 every few months since April 2014.
So, officially, we haven't heard *anything* since October 29th. We last heard about something resembling a production schedule in late July. And we haven't had an actual Throne of Night module released since #2, back in April 2014.
Draw your own conclusions...
I'm reasonably certain that the only thing legal action against Mr. McBride will accomplish is make sure the project will never get finished.
What certainty do we have *now* that this project will ever get finished? I'm not asking for a vellum-printed copy of all six modules to be hand-delivered to me by the end of the month. All I want is a status update. Give me that, and a good-faith promise from Mr. McBride to be more communicative, and I will happily revert to lurking again.
I'm sorry, but I'm on Lord_Hyperion's side in this. If some people here think it's OK to just toss their money at a Kickstarter with *zero* expectations of any feedback from the creator, let alone a finished product, that's on you. Some of us actually *expect* something for our money. At the very least, actual, detailed updates on a regular basis as to the project's status. Most Kickstarters, even ones that meet unexpected challenges (and who doesn't?), manage to do this. Whatever Mr. McBride's problems are, at the very least he owes us, the funders, an explanation and a real status update, because a Kickstarter project once funded is a legal contract (court rulings have determined this). And by "actual update", I do not mean just an "I'm still working on it!", but progress numbers (text 50% written, X% laid out, etc.) and a decent guesstimate as to completion time. If he would just do THAT on a regular (monthly?) basis, I would be on the side of the folks here who keep saying he can take all the time in the world. But when he takes all the time in the world and *doesn't tell us a thing*? That is NOT cool.
I am now determined that if Mr. McBride doesn't at least post a decent status update by January 31, I will call my state's Attorney General on February 1.
This may be a fault of mine, but hearing this just makes me angrier. Not only is he not communicating with us, but now he's adding material which, to remain legal, will *add even MORE delays* to the project? At this point, his "vision" is getting in the way. As far as I'm concerned now, he needs to directly communicate with us ASAP with either a decent timetable to deliver the goods, or an offer of a refund.
Imagine a small child, a runaway, dressed in rags and carrying a worn-out but surprisingly sturdy ragdoll or teddy animal. When threatened or frightened, the child will toss the doll at his/her nemesis - and the doll tears them to shreds.
The child is (unbeknownst to him/herself) a summoner, and the ragdoll is their eidolon.
Kevin Mack wrote:
Frankly as long as we are getting evidence that work is still progressing (Which I would count what Kevin_video reported as) then I think reporting him to the attorney general is premature and counter productive.
I have not contacted my state's Attorney General about this yet, but I must respectfully disagree with your assertion that this thread counts as "evidence". Will all due respect to kevin_video, I want to hear from the project owner, *directly*, via the Kickstarter notification system, with either a firm timeline for releases or an apology and an offer of a refund. At this point, nothing else would prevent me from making that phone call to the AG.
Nothing I have read in any of the updates gives any indication of a timeframe. After three updates in a row of "Hey look at this neat artwork, more progress coming, stay tuned!" I am quite cynical about when/if we will see anything out of this project.
What will win my confidence back is *details*. Good details, bad details, it doesn't matter at this point. Even an honest, regularly updated admission of "I am overloaded, I can't make a firm projection, please bear with me" would be better than the long stretches of silence punctuated by links to art. I can't run a campaign on artwork.
And this morning's crop has been flagged.
FWIW, almost every other forum I know of has some sort of moderator vetting required to join and post. I hate to pile work on the mods here at Paizo, but it looks like these *******s are not going away, and are intent on exploiting the flaws in the current system. Something needs to be done.
On Tuesday, the Necromancers of the Northwest published the Cultist NPC class on their blog. If you haven't seen it yet, go read it now. I'll wait...
Now, the two example cults they give are for demonic and diabolic patrons, and that's fine as far as it goes. But what is a cultist without a mind-shattering Alien Horror From Beyond to worship? Therefore, I want to use this thread to propose a few new cults to spice up the Cultist class, and really give the devil - or in this case, the Great Old Ones - their due.
To get my feet wet (pun intended), the first attempt will be that perennial favorite, the Esoteric Order of Dagon. The first draft follows inside the spoiler. Any ideas and suggestions welcome. IÄ R'LYEH!
The Esoteric Order of Dagon:
The Esoteric Order of Dagon
The Esoteric Order of Dagon is a cult found in isolated coastal communities throughout the world. It quickly takes root where its promises of precious gold artifacts and restoration of depleted fisheries are desirable to elements in the local community. Part of its eschatology centers on a return of its followers to the water world, accompanied by gradual bodily transformation and an eternal life of sorts. The central beings worshiped by the Order are the Deep Ones, Father Dagon, Mother Hydra, and, to a lesser extent, Cthulhu. The Deep Ones are seen largely as intermediaries between the various gods, rather than as gods themselves. Even so, the cultists sacrifice various locals to the Deep Ones at specific times in exchange for a limitless supply of gold and fish. Interbreeding between the human and amphibian species is also actively encouraged. The Esoteric Order of Dagon has three oaths which members have to take. The first is an oath of secrecy, the second, an oath of loyalty, and the third, an oath to marry a Deep One and bear or sire its child.
Alignment: Members of the Esoteric Order of Dagon cannot be Lawful or Good.
Restricted Spells: Members of the Esoteric Order of Dagon cannot cast spells with the good or lawful descriptors.
Channeled Energy: Negative.
Hexes: Members of the Esoteric Order of Dagon can select from the following hexes.
Primeval Resilience (Ex): The cultist gains a +4 bonus on saving throws made to resist poison, and an amount of cold resistance equal to his class level. At 12th level, he gains an amount of acid and electricity resistance equal to 1/3 his class level.
Claws of the Deep (Su): As a move action, the cultist can cause his hands to twist and gnarl into horrible claws. He gains two primary claw natural attacks, which deal 1d6 points of slashing damage on a successful hit (or 1d4 points of slashing damage if the cultist is Small). If the cultist is at least 6th level, he can transform his hands in this way as a swift action, instead. If the cultist is at least 10th level, the critical threat range for the claws increases to 19-20. If the cultist is at least 14th level, the critical multiplier for the claws increases to x3. The cultist can use the claws for a number of minutes per day equal to 1/2 his class level. These minutes need not be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments.
Corrupting Whisper (Sp): As a standard action, the cultist can mentally compel a single creature within 60 feet to perform a single evil act, such as theft, murder, or other actions that involve hurting another for personal gain or enjoyment. The act in question must be able to be described in 100 words or less, and must take no more than 24 hours to complete. The target is entitled to a Will save to resist this effect, and gains a +4 bonus on the save if performing this action will have obvious negative consequences (such as violating a law in front of the town guard, or breaking an important promise to a loved one). If the target succeeds on the Will save, he identifies the cultist as the source of the mental compulsion. Whether the target succeeds or fails his Will save, he cannot be the target of this hex again for 24 hours. The cultist can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier.
Insidious Wound (Su): Whenever the cultist scores a critical hit with a melee weapon, he can choose to leave a insidious wound. If he does, the damage inflicted by that critical hit cannot be healed naturally, and even magical healing fails to affect it unless the caster succeeds on a caster level check (DC 11 + the cultist’s class level). A creature that has been affected by this ability cannot be affected by another insidious wound until the first one has been successfully healed.
First Oath of Dagon (Secret of the First Circle) (Ex): Beginning at 1st level, the cultist gains a swim speed of 30 feet.
Second Oath of Dagon (Secret of the Second Circle) (Su): Beginning at 9th level, the cultist gains the amphibious special quality and develops a fat layer that grants a +1 natural armor bonus and resist cold 5 (this stacks with the Primeval Resilience hex). When immersed in water, the cultist gains blindsense 30 feet.
Third Oath of Dagon (Secret of the Third Circle) (Ex): Beginning at 17th level, the cultist gains a swim speed of 60 feet and blindsense of 60 feet in water. Also, his body is covered with fine, slippery scales, granting DR 10/piercing and continuous freedom of movement. Underwater, the cultist gains evasion and blindsight 120 feet, and is immune to pressure damage from deep water.
Ascension: At 20th level, when the cultist becomes an outsider, he gains the chaos, aquatic and evil subtypes, and all the traits associated with those types. If the cultist has the primeval resilience hex, he may immediately replace it with a different hex for which he qualifies. Additionally, once per day, he can summon any mythos creature of CR 20 or less as a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This summons has a 50% chance of success. The summoned creature serves him faithfully for up to 1 minute, and this otherwise functions as the spell summon monster IX.
I came up with my own "patch" for coinage in my house rules for E6/P6. The two premises are A) the base is silver, not gold; and B) coins step up in factors of 50 (i.e. 50 CPs are worth one SP, 50 SP are worth one GP), and any 50 coins weigh a pound. This is not exact historically, but it's much more accurate than the RAW d20/PF system.
How this works in mechanical terms is actually simple. For the book/RAW price in GP, simply read it as SP. Multiply the book/RAW price in SP by five to get the price in new CP. And if the book/RAW price is in CP, divide by two (round UP) for the cost in new CP.
This also has the effect of making copper actually worth something, and assumes most of the populace uses CP for almost all transactions. Silver is something special, and gold is the province of kings and merchant princes.
Needless to say, this will significantly alter the way treasure is handed out. ;-) I'm still playing with the ratios, but for the gritty atmosphere I'm aiming for, I'd probably cut coin amounts in treasures by half (after converting it to the new system above).
Jr. Annalist wrote:
Almost done with a revision of the abridged (a few small tweaks, several suggested upthread) and with the rogue for the full thing. Cautiously optimistic to have the former done in a few days.
Great! I've been working on an E6 background, and your materials have been a godsend. Thanks for all the hard work!