[Fire Mountain Games] Throne of Night


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Grand Lodge

I think if May hits, and we don't even get a single pdf, or even an apology, that the volcano will erupt. The crossed fingers are starting to cramp.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Weslocke wrote:

It is getting pretty close to April.

Everybody cross your fingers for the next few weeks.

Think positive (I know, I know) and try to visualize those books arriving at your door in a big volcano shaped box with a bow on it.

May I ask why everyone is suggesting we'll get something in April?

Grand Lodge

Banesfinger wrote:
Weslocke wrote:

It is getting pretty close to April.

Everybody cross your fingers for the next few weeks.

Think positive (I know, I know) and try to visualize those books arriving at your door in a big volcano shaped box with a bow on it.

May I ask why everyone is suggesting we'll get something in April?

That was the month that Gary essentially name dropped during an update. It's all any of us have to go on.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

kevin_video wrote:
That was the month that Gary essentially name dropped during an update. It's all any of us have to go on.

I don't see any reference to that in the last few Kickstarter updates?...


I've posted on the backers page. 20 months since the last installment (tales of Talingarde) and longer since TON book 2, I am forced to conclude that something drastically wrong has happened here. Nearly five months since the last update just isn't cricket.

At this point I really would consider the unfinished manuscripts, artwork and notes as the best of a bad lot and write the project off. He can keep my money but I would like to see something to show for it. Others may want their money back. I don't blame them at this point.

Grand Lodge

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This is fairly minor, but Necromancers of the Northwest released a few magic items for their weekly blog update, and I thought that at least two of them fit the whole "dwarf campaign". They are an adamantine miner's pick and a smithy warhammer. The last item doesn't quite fit, but it's still kind of cool for above ground forest types.

Just another potential add-on that I wanted to share with everyone.


My prediction: We'll see 2 or 3 books together, but not until June. Late June. June 24 is the date I keep telling myself.

It's been way too long, but I do have printed-out map on my wall, and dream of ToN forming the core of my world's underground, connected to various PF locations that seem to be referenced, as well as somehow being integrated with Rappan Athuk. Maybe even an eventual 7th book detailing locations just off the map, like the town the humans come from, the svirfneblin capitol, etc.

I really want this. I really, really hope that the project does not end prematurely, in any case.


My prediction: you are wise not to add a year to your June prediction. Cause it sure as hell won´t be 2016.

Grand Lodge

kevin_video wrote:

Looking over the template, the half-marilith only grants two extra arms. The picture has six, not four. This makes me think that either Gary didn't tell Michael the exact details (possibly vague), or he's adding an extra two arms to the build regardless, or it is a drowblood marilith. In which case, it's going to be a difficult battle for the PCs if it's actually a CR 17-18. I went with a Young creature build just so it could fit in a standard drow sized throne. Despite it being a higher CR, it does say that the PCs are supposed to make her an ally, and not so much fight her. With made this with that in mind.

No idea what her name would be, but I figured I'd make one up regardless. So, here's my attempt.

Wow, Jan 22 was the last time I actually did my own thing and tried my hand at an encounter build for this AP. Not that I had to, but I like adding my own take on things, from time to time.

Well, it took me about 24 hours to do (I do everything by hand since I don't have Hero Lab to play with), and decided that I'd try my hand at the half-god prince, using one of the godling classes from Rogue Genius Games. For some of you, the picture will be new. I got it from Michael's Google+ page.
Yes, I was just that bored. Also, sick. That helped a boatload, but mostly the boredom. Unlike with the drow marilith, I didn't bother with trying to come up with a name. Figured he's probably on the cusp of being a demilich and will forget all of that anyhow.

Grand Lodge

In case anyone's been curious, I've been to Michael's site and I've seen a lot of 2016 stamped pictures. At the very least that means that Gary's still commissioning him to continue with the artwork for the book series. That's at least some comfort.


kevin_video wrote:
In case anyone's been curious, I've been to Michael's site and I've seen a lot of 2016 stamped pictures. At the very least that means that Gary's still commissioning him to continue with the artwork for the book series. That's at least some comfort.

Has Michael himself confirmed this? Because it's entirely possible that he just did a ton of concept work for ToN when it was first commissioned, and is just finishing it out for his own reasons.

And if Gary *did* commission it... why hasn't he bothered to keep us informed (the perennial question in this interminable KS project...)?


Agreed. I had the same thoughts.
For a time, I assured myself that all was good: he wouldn't pay for art if he had no intention of ever completing the project.
Then I realized: he probably paid in advance with the KS cash, so the art doesn't mean the books are being finished.

Grand Lodge

Unimportant wrote:
Has Michael himself confirmed this?

No, he hasn't said a thing in almost a year now.

Grand Lodge

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Adventure-a-Week just released two mini-dungeon adventures that can be placed in any campaign as a one-off. The first is Dwarven Dread, a level 5-6 game. The second is Howling Halls, a level 7 game. Both links give you the synopsis of each adventure.


kevin_video wrote:
Nezzarine Shadowmantle wrote:
Does anyone know when the third book (or all of them) will be released?
It's all guess work right now. The implied answer is he's writing all four books at the same time, and we should expect to hear/see something come April sometime. Whether or not that's legit, no one know. Even Mr Clarke isn't responding to messages, which I don't blame him.

As a backer of this project, I have read the updates on Kickstarter as they are posted (the last being October 29th, 2015). I have never seen anything that suggests an April goal. Can you clarify on where you found this information?

Grand Lodge

Firstbourne wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
Nezzarine Shadowmantle wrote:
Does anyone know when the third book (or all of them) will be released?
It's all guess work right now. The implied answer is he's writing all four books at the same time, and we should expect to hear/see something come April sometime. Whether or not that's legit, no one know. Even Mr Clarke isn't responding to messages, which I don't blame him.
As a backer of this project, I have read the updates on Kickstarter as they are posted (the last being October 29th, 2015). I have never seen anything that suggests an April goal. Can you clarify on where you found this information?

Turns out I misspoke. I thought it was in one of the updates from Gary, but it looks like it was in one of the emails that Michael replied back to me with. More so it was for him to have hex maps completed, which he did. That was last November though.

Maybe we won't get an April date. I'd still like it to be that.


kevin_video wrote:
Firstbourne wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
Nezzarine Shadowmantle wrote:
Does anyone know when the third book (or all of them) will be released?
It's all guess work right now. The implied answer is he's writing all four books at the same time, and we should expect to hear/see something come April sometime. Whether or not that's legit, no one know. Even Mr Clarke isn't responding to messages, which I don't blame him.
As a backer of this project, I have read the updates on Kickstarter as they are posted (the last being October 29th, 2015). I have never seen anything that suggests an April goal. Can you clarify on where you found this information?

Turns out I misspoke. I thought it was in one of the updates from Gary, but it looks like it was in one of the emails that Michael replied back to me with. More so it was for him to have hex maps completed, which he did. That was last November though.

Maybe we won't get an April date. I'd still like it to be that.

of what year? ;-0


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kevin_video wrote:


Turns out I misspoke. I thought it was in one of the updates from Gary, but it looks like it was in one of the emails that Michael replied back to me with. More so it was for him to have hex maps completed, which he did. That was last November though.

Maybe we won't get an April date. I'd still like it to be that.

Wouldn't we all, but if wishes were fishes...

It's now been over two years since we last got a Throne of Night module. It's been over nine months since we heard anything about a release schedule. And it's been almost six months since we heard ANYTHING PERIOD.

Seriously, this project is dead.


Well, that sucks. I was hoping I missed something and that we could see an April update.
My group has had characters for this AP for a long time now, but I don't want to start it without, at least, having book 3. I wouldn't want to end it (or put it on indefinate hold) at the end of book 2. That would frustrate me and my players.
I guess my table will be on hold until either Strange Aeons or the CotCT hardcover is released.


Thanks a lot, Gary...


The Sword wrote:

I have previously been on of Gary's most strident supporters... Even I am struggling at this point not to write the project off.

However, my growing suspicion is that gary has lost all enthusiasm and motivation for the project. As a result all his creative juices have dried up and he is suffering from the mother of all writers block. Faced with the choice of producing nothing or something naff he has chosen nothing. I would imagine explaining this would get little sympathy so he hasn't. After all "I don't feel like it" isn't a very good reason for something not being completed.

However, this is a real phenomena. Ask George R Martin!

Seriously? I doubt it! Come on......no writer known to mankind, living or dead, has ever had 2 fricking YEARS of "writer´s block". All of us who do their own adventures from time to time know that you can get stuck, badly too from time to time. But if you just let it go for some days or weeks and just give it some thought then something always comes up. Always.

Besides.....it´s not like he´s trying to write a fricking nobel prize novel here. It´s just a lousy adventure path for god´s sake. One which - if WotW is any reference - would have needed some shining by the GM anyway. Don´t get me wrong: WofW is good but it´s hardly perfect.

Also.....as much as Georgie Porgie DOES suck at finishing his stuff at least he´s writing 800-pages books not 96 pages adventures where some 10 pages or so are art (if one adds it up) to boot. So one book from Georgie is bigger than ALL the adventures McBride promised. And I seriously doubt that the ToN story would have been as complex and intertwined as ASoIaF.

This won´t be a George R.R. Martin. This will become a Robert Jordan.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

As far as I can tell, this is the timeline of the project:

Throne of Night successfully funded in May, 2013.
Book 1 (pdf) released in Oct, 2013.
Book 2 (pdf) released in Apr, 2014.

That is roughly 6 months between book releases. The July 2015 update from kickstarter said they will release the remaining 4 books + the bonus adventure at the same time. 5 books x 6 months each = 2.5 years from the last released book.

Using that estimated schedule, the remaining 5 books be finished in approximately Oct 2016!

By my math, we should be getting the remaining books in about 6 months from now.


You gotta be kidding me! LOL.

We don´t even get any updates. Don´t you think if he were through with the books or even nearing the end he´d have been posting about it? Or do you seriously think that you´ll just wake up some morning to find a parcel on your doorstep left by the gnomes with all the shiny stuff from Gary "I can´t talk or write" McBride?

Gimme a break!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

You don't have to be dick about it.


No? Oh! Thanks for telling me.

And here I thought because I´ve been sitting here for 3 f!#$ing years without even getting the Way of the Wicked physical books I have payed for (what´s up? His alleged "Writer´s block" encompassing writing my address on a label?) OR getting the refund I have asked for a bazillion times meant I´d need to.

But ok....I´ll try to turn the sarcasm mode off. And I apologize to you, Banesfinger.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Lord_Hyperion wrote:
And I apologize to you, Banesfinger.

No offense taken Lord_Hyperion. I know everyone's patience has worn thin.

I was just pointing out the historic dates for people here (I know my memory has gotten foggy over the years).


Firstbourne wrote:

Well, that sucks. I was hoping I missed something and that we could see an April update.

My group has had characters for this AP for a long time now, but I don't want to start it without, at least, having book 3. I wouldn't want to end it (or put it on indefinate hold) at the end of book 2. That would frustrate me and my players.
I guess my table will be on hold until either Strange Aeons or the CotCT hardcover is released.

I'm in a similar situation. I'm starting to think of each book (well, the location covered in each book) as being modular. Like the Upper Azathyr is the realm of Svirfneblin and the Fungus Forest and beyond is some kind of unknown "Here be Drow" area. Or even have a complete cave collapse beyond the Drow tower. Other books, if used, could be placed in widely separated parts of the world and treated as separate products. I guess that completely destroys the overarching storyline, but it would allow me to salvage the locations and NPC races in this product I really like, regardless of whether Gary finishes or not.


Does anybody have a synopsis for all 6 adventures for this adventure path?

I have the first two adventures and a synopsis for the third but cant find the rest of them outlined. I figure I'm going to finish these adventures myself but would like to see what he had outlined for them.

Grand Lodge

Rifts Guy wrote:

Does anybody have a synopsis for all 6 adventures for this adventure path?

I have the first two adventures and a synopsis for the third but cant find the rest of them outlined. I figure I'm going to finish these adventures myself but would like to see what he had outlined for them.

Yeah, I did that back on page 15 for everyone so they could essentially do the same thing. Linked for your convenience.


kevin_video wrote:


Yeah, I did that back on page 15 for everyone so they could essentially do the same thing. Linked for your convenience.

Thanks! I really appreciate it.

Anybody got any Adventure Paths or Modules that are similar to this one but actually finished?


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@Rifts Guy: Take a look at AAW Games' Rise of the Drow saga and Underworld Races/Classes-pdfs. While the former deal mainly with fighting against drow, the majority of the AP takes place in the Underdark. The Underworld Races/Classes-pdfs sport A LOT of unique, imaginative races and class options, from a race of blind beings to crystal-suffused beings to guys that kill you with exploding shrooms. To my knowledge, no other publisher has this extensive of an array of options that would fit perfectly with ToN.

Grand Lodge

Rifts Guy wrote:
kevin_video wrote:


Yeah, I did that back on page 15 for everyone so they could essentially do the same thing. Linked for your convenience.

Thanks! I really appreciate it.

Anybody got any Adventure Paths or Modules that are similar to this one but actually finished?

You'd have to go through the pages backwards, but I put down about a dozen or so ideas and links. One included a link to the old AD&D underground aberration filled adventure path, Night Below, which was converted to 3.5 D&D. Pretty sure ToN was inspired by that path.

Grand Lodge

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Because they're all spread out, and new people are coming to the forum asking questions regarding things that have already been answered and linked, I thought I'd do an update post. These are in no particular order. I opened a bunch of tabs, and they were placed randomly.

The links on RPGNow Paizo no longer work, but if you can find the Solace Games - Elves of Darkness, that's got some nice suggestions for an underground adventure. Even more so if you're focusing on drow as it's got as many variants on the race as tieflings and aasimars.

Link 1 Adventure suggestion Tiger's Palace from D&D 3.0 by Owen K. Stephens. The adventure has since been moved here and is available for 99 cents. Will need slight converting to Pathfinder.

Link 2 Monster suggestions from the AAW Aventry Bestiary.

Link 3 My own suggestions and linked builds for two of the potential monsters that the PCs would meet over the course of the AP: marilith drow noble queen, and the half-god prince. Art provided by Michael Clarke.

Link 4 Synopsis of Books 3 through 6 that Gary put up on the KS.

Link 5 My build of the mithral shirt that was given to Bilbo Baggins in The Hobbit, which was suggested as a potential magic item that could be found as treasure in the adventure.

Link 6 Suggested underground encounters pdf by Purple Duck Games.

Link 7 I made a number of posts in a row for this link.
1) Suggestion for upgrading Knivy Ivy.
2) A regenerating horn of mead. The perfect item for dwarves.
3) Right below those two posts, is a post that has more suggestions including adventures and how to advance the monsters to make them credible threats to the PCs, and an ice forge haunt.
4) And right below THAT, is my blog link where I started coming up with suggestions for Book 1. I did the same thing for all seven books of Way of the Wicked. However, the enthusiasm for ToN just isn't there, so I haven't continued the posts.

Link 9 More adventure suggestions, this time from early from Dragon Magazines.

Link 10 The largest set of links for suggested adventures I could find that would easily fit this campaign. A few of them are free. The only exception is the link for The Lost Mine of Klangdensturm is no longer available through the Way Back Machine. However, I found a direct link here for it.
Probably the one that fits best for this game, other than the Lost Mine, is the AD&D Night Below game. Just be sure to go to the conversion link too. Someone on this forum did a suggestion Pathfinder conversion as well.

Link 11 Even more adventure ideas and suggestions.

Link 12 Ideas for what dwarves eat while solely underground, and a couple of monster ideas.

Link 13 Two more adventure suggestions.

Link 14 Dwarven items created by Necromancers of the Northwest. They later did more magic items, but only one (at the bottom of the page) was something a dwarf would consider taking. And that's the Tower Shield of Blades.

Link 15 Suggested reading for adding things to this AP; an adventure and two underdark books. All created by Paizo. Apologies for the lack of direct links on that one, but I was using my phone while at my friend's, going through his books.

Link 16 Two monster suggestions and my conversions.
1) The first is a monster that's perfect for any dwarf that's getting claustrophobic and looking to get back to the surface.
2) The second is apparently already been directly converted in this book. Directly converted meaning it's not balanced with the Pathfinder monster rules. This post link explains why it's a good monster to add.

Link 17 Link to Halls of the Mountain King adventure.

Link 18 Dwarf books. Also, there's a drow version of the race book called Advanced Race Codex: Drow. Very good to have on hand if you're playing the other side of the coin.

Link 19 Dragon Magazine link with dwarven magic items in the Magic Shop section.

Link 20 Magic toadstools taken from the Castle Whiterock AP by Dungeon Crawl Classics, that would fit perfectly in this AP.

Link 21 This one isn't mine, but it's a suggestion for where Throne of Night might start if you're using Golarion as the base world.

Link 22 Again, not mine, but a sample build using the patron/deity rules.

Link 23 The end encounter of Book 1 seemed a bit unbalanced in a number of ways, including not having the correct CR.

Link 24 Watch Chris Perkins of WotC and the guys of Penny Arcade play an underdark adventure and the drow Drizzt is there. The old link is long gone so I gave a direct link to the video.

Link 25 Another adventure suggestion, and more reading material.

Link 26 Another drow book. Also look into the AWW Underworld Races Drow, and the Underworld Classes books (namely Masters of the Web and Stonespeaker), as well as Fat Goblin Games' Amazing Races Drow.

Link 27 More reading material suggestions, and ideas for what to equip Knivy Ivy with, as well as the PCs.

Link 28 More drow reading material.

Link 29 More monster suggestions.

Link 30 More adventure suggestions.

Link 31 Gremlin suggestion.

Link 32 Suggestion to add a beholder into the mix of fights, but mainly the suggestion to take the City of the Spider Queen 3.0 adventure and convert it.

Link 33 A hazard suggestion from Complete Minions 3.5 and why it would fit.

And that should about cover it. Couldn't find any more, but it's quite possible that I missed something. This should do for now though. Lots of material to go through.

Grand Lodge

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Now that my links are done, I think it's time to once again showcase the work that Weslocke did. When Books 3 through 6 didn't appear on time, he took matters into his own hands and gave his players his own bookend ending.

Here's his summarized version of how you can finish up Throne of Night without the books. Or, as he called, it Throne Done Right.

If you use these, be sure to thanks him below.

Part 1

Part 2

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

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Say something Gary, I'm giving up on you

Grand Lodge

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kevin_video wrote:
And that should about cover it. Couldn't find any more, but it's quite possible that I missed something. This should do for now though. Lots of material to go through.

Looks like I missed one. On the same page as the list, no less. Whoops. Just shows how many of these I put up over the past three years. I wish we could edit week old posts so people don't have to favorite these more than they have to.

My luck there's still one or two that I'm unaware of among the 18 pages.

Link 34 Two Adventure A Week scenarios that deal with the underground environment. One specifically takes place in dwarven territory.

Grand Lodge

I came to realize today that last Saturday (May 7th) was the three year anniversary of the project being funded. Three years, three books. Not sure if four more, and one's just thicker for the extra adventure, or if it's more like five books, or just 4.5 books.


kevin_video wrote:
I came to realize today that last Saturday (May 7th) was the three year anniversary of the project being funded. Three years, three books.

TWO books. AFAIC, the Way of the Wicked book does *not* count. I didn't pay for it, it's not part of Throne of Night by any stretch of the imagination, therefore it doesn't count (even if he offered it as a gift/bonus).

Grand Lodge

Unimportant wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
I came to realize today that last Saturday (May 7th) was the three year anniversary of the project being funded. Three years, three books.
TWO books. AFAIC, the Way of the Wicked book does *not* count. I didn't pay for it, it's not part of Throne of Night by any stretch of the imagination, therefore it doesn't count (even if he offered it as a gift/bonus).

I count it because it was a stretch goal. You personally may not have paid for one, but it's still part of the overall deal. Just as the additional adventure with the half-God prince needs to count for ToN despite it being an extended chapter unto itself.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Two or three PDFs. Zero books. :(


kevin_video wrote:
I count it because it was a stretch goal. You personally may not have paid for one, but it's still part of the overall deal. Just as the additional adventure with the half-God prince needs to count for ToN despite it being an extended chapter unto itself.

Should a stretch goal from an entirely different AP have taken precedent over actual Throne of Night material? Just sayin'. ;-)

Grand Lodge

Unimportant wrote:
kevin_video wrote:
I count it because it was a stretch goal. You personally may not have paid for one, but it's still part of the overall deal. Just as the additional adventure with the half-God prince needs to count for ToN despite it being an extended chapter unto itself.
Should a stretch goal from an entirely different AP have taken precedent over actual Throne of Night material? Just sayin'. ;-)

It was technically already made. The three minion quests had been something he was playtesting at conventions, and the material was fresh in his mind from his previous AP. I'd say yes. Better to do it right away than lose it later. It's supposedly part of why he was doing all the books at once instead of releasing them one at the time. Before, he'd miss entire chapters because he literally forgot about them. Book 7 was essentially an apology for cutting too many corners. Not sure what's going on this time.


Are the 2 already released pdf worth buying on their own?

Grand Lodge

Nicos wrote:
Are the 2 already released pdf worth buying on their own?

They are. There's a number of sentence structure and spelling errors here and there, as well as one of the fights at the end of Book 1 is unbalanced (which I try to rebalance in one of the above links), but other than that it's interesting enough to at least start up and act as an introduction for your own underground adventure.


Nicos wrote:
Are the 2 already released pdf worth buying on their own?

They are decent adventures, in their own right... but honestly, if you want to run this as a whole, I wouldn't buy s~#+ til is all out. In addition, I would probably recommend not buying anything from them til its all released. 3 years, with no explanation, is ludicrous.


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If you want another underground adventure, Cyclopean Deeps from Frog God Games may be worth examining. It's complete at two large volumes, and available right here on Paizo.com (PDF version, printed version also available), as well as FGG's website (Free PDF with printed book).


Nicos wrote:
Are the 2 already released pdf worth buying on their own?

For dwarven campaign? No, since a lot is missing and it doesn't feel as a "dwarven adventure." It's severely lacking.

For drow? It might be. Didn't try it with them, but you don't need books 3+ for anything, you can make it up.


GM Rednal wrote:
If you want another underground adventure, Cyclopean Deeps from Frog God Games may be worth examining. It's complete at two large volumes, and available right here on Paizo.com (PDF version, printed version also available), as well as FGG's website (Free PDF with printed book).

Indeed.

I just grabbed the Cyclopean Depths vol 1 and 2 for 40% off at the FGG website. They are having a pre Paizocon sale. If you need / want anything off their site - get it now! The discount works on pdfs too.


Nicos wrote:
Are the 2 already released pdf worth buying on their own?

Yes. Best underground hexsandbox I've seen.


GM Rednal wrote:
If you want another underground adventure, Cyclopean Deeps from Frog God Games may be worth examining. It's complete at two large volumes, and available right here on Paizo.com (PDF version, printed version also available), as well as FGG's website (Free PDF with printed book).

I actually wouldn't call it complete. 2 areas out of, what, 15? 20? fully detailed. Seems more like a long-term series that may get gradually filled out to me.

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