Caster-Martial Disparity Battleground - No Crying.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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THOUGH THEN AGAIN, BARBARIAN AM NOTING ENDING OR ENTERING RAGE AM FREE ACTION.

BARBARIAN TECHNICALLY DO THIS MID ATTACK AND JUST SMASHER AGAIN IF ARMOR AM SOMEHOW SURVIVE.

ALSO, RIDE-BY ATTACK SAYING EVEN IF MILLION TO ONE CHANCE AM COMING ABOUT AND THIS SOMEHOW FAIL, BARBARIAN AM ABLE TO BE WAYYY HIGH UP IN AIR OUT OF RANGE AGAIN.

MAN BARBARIAN AM AWESOME.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Leongorance wrote:


By table,+5 adamantine full plate have hardiness of 30 and 140 hit points,so its kinda absurd even to try to break it.

Your math for the HP is off.

5 x Armor Bonus 9 = 45 + 15 Adamantine Bonus HP (1/3 of 45) = 60 + 10 per Enhancement Bonus HP (50) = 110.


SMASHER rage power completely ignore's hardness. ;)


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

BARBARIAN AM USING SMASHER RAGE POWER, IT BYPASS HARDNESS. ADAMANTINE APPROXIMATELY AS HARD AS PAPER TO BARBARIAN.

BARBARIAN ALSO FIGURE SQUISHY ARMORED GUY AM USING HASTEYS.

NOTE BARBARIAN AM NOT INCLUDE HASTEYS BECAUSE THIS AM BUFF EVERYONE AM HAVING. BARBARIAN ASSUME FIGHTY KNEW THIS, BARBARIAN AM SADLY NOT INTRIGUED TO SEE AM NOT KNOWING. BARBARIAN ROUND AM LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

AM CHARGE IN FROM HUGE DISTANCE AWAY ON BATTY BAT.

AM FULL ROUND ACTION.

AM USE SMASHER ON FIRST ACTION.

BARBARIAN AM ALREADY HAVING +74 AFTER GREATER SUNDER. AM NOT SURE IF FEETS AM OPEN, BARBARIAN AM THOUGHT EXPERIMENT.

THEN BARBARIAN AM GET ADDITIONAL +1 FROM HASTYS. AM +75. AFTER THAT, BARBARIAN AM NOTING HE AM SUNDER ARMOR, NOT WEAPON. AM APPROXIMATELY 4+2+4 TOO HIGH DUE TO GLOVE THINGYS. BONUS AM NOT 97, AM 87. LEARN TO MATHS, FIGHTY AM WORSE AT IT THAN BARBARIAN. AM FAIRLY SAD. IF BARBARIAN AM GO FIRST (BARBARIAN CHARGE RADIUS 360 FEET DUE TO DIVING BATTY BAT OF AWESOME, SO LIKELY TO GO FIRST AND BARBARIAN AM ALWAYS WIN INITIATIVE) AM BECOME 81. IF FIGHTY GO FIRST, BARBARIAN JUST SMASH CASTYS. FIGHTY AM NOT GOOD AT GETTING IN BATTY BAT WAY.

MOVING ON, BARBARIAN AM THEN CHARGING. THIS AM MAKING BARBARIAN BONUS AT +77. WHEN BARBARIAN MOVE FIRST, THIS AM 85% CHANCE OF HIT. WHEN BARBARIAN NOT MOVE FIRST, BARBARIAN USE BATTY BAT TO GET WHERE BARBARIAN NEED GO TO MOVE FIRST. BARBARIAN AM UNFAIR. ON CHARGING RAGELANCEPOUNCE, BARBARIAN AM DEALING APPROXIMATELY...

3D8+87 PER HIT. MATH AM REALLY FAST, ONLY ASSUME +14 STR AND +7 FROM WEAPON, WITH MINIMAL BONUS. SMASHER AM IGNORE ITEM HARDNESS, THUS AM DEALING AVERAGE OF 100.5 DAMAGE TO ADAMANTINE ARMOR WITHOUT EVEN POWER ATTACKING REGARDLESS OF ADAMANTINENESS OF ARMOR. BARBARIAN AM PUNCH THROUGH TWO AND HALF INCHES OF ADAMANTINE NO PROBLEM. AM LANCE THAT PIERCE HEAVENS.

ALSO, POUNCE AM STILL LEAVING BARBARIAN WITH REMAINING FOUR ATTACKS. AND FIGHTY JUST LOST 14 AC AT LEAST.

IS PITY, BUT EVEN CRAZY FIGHTY HAVE 85% CHANCE OF LOSS TO BARBARIAN....

Haha do you really think that by that time fighter wont be able to fly?:))Absolutely not rue you will always play first.

Btw how many rage powers barbarian can use during an action?All of them or?

Well if you didnt red post,even with 100.5 from hit you wont destroy armor.

And if you come to fighter with scimitar full attack,you are over.As there is over 85% chance for crit,and if you get single crit you become staggered,or even worse stunned,and thats over.

And btw is pounce barbarian only ability?:)


Feel the need to point out that the disparity has never been about how much HP damage someone can do.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Leongorance wrote:


By table,+5 adamantine full plate have hardiness of 30 and 140 hit points,so its kinda absurd even to try to break it.

Your math for the HP is off.

5 x Armor Bonus 9 = 45 + 15 Adamantine Bonus HP (1/3 of 45) = 60 + 10 per Enhancement Bonus HP (50) = 110.

Hmmm do you red table correctly?

Maybe i am wrong but as far as i remember table is made for medium armors.And therefore when calculating for light is /2 and when you are counting for heavy its x2.You have it at the bottom of table.So for heavy isnt 5x9,it is 10x9 if i am correct.So it is 170 hit points.I might be wrong on that one thou...dont have book here atm,so cant check it.

Liberty's Edge

I am just going to throw in this simple fact. Your level 20! AC means nothing! I build a barbarian with a +5 furious brilliant energy weapon. There I win! I ignore all that AC investment. Your touch AC is probably somewhere in the 20's. I hit you on everything but a 1. This is why AC is the worst defense to invest in at high levels. Next argument. This is supposed to be a melee vs caster piss fest not fighter vs barbarian one.

Oh and by the way....Its large armor that gets double hit points and small armor that gets 1/2 hit points. So its 5x9.


Kendal Ogles wrote:

I am just going to throw in this simple fact. Your level 20! AC means nothing! I build a barbarian with a +5 furious brilliant energy weapon. There I win! I ignore all that AC investment. Your touch AC is probably somewhere in the 20's. I hit you on everything but a 1. This is why AC is the worst defense to invest in at high levels. Next argument. This is supposed to be a melee vs caster piss fest not fighter vs barbarian one.

Oh and by the way....Its large armor that gets double hit points and small armor that gets 1/2 hit points. So its 5x9.

The dwarf is now undead. WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOOOOW!!!


heck, Am Barbarian owes me some brutal foreplay and a few broken bones.


LOL, this doesn't even matter considering the challenge of the game is determined by someone else. If we're talking about PvP we aren't talking about Pathfinder.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:
MAN BARBARIAN AM AWESOME.

...and threads like this are why someone desperately needs to update the Rage Mage for Pathfinder. I love that PrC so freaking much.


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POUNCE AM BARBARIAN ONLY, UNLESS FIGHTER AM ABLE TO TAKE GREATER BEAST TOTEM.

RIDE BY ATTACK AM KEEPING FIGHTER FROM EVER GETTING INTO MELEE WITH BARBARIAN.

AM KIND OF SAD FIGHTY KEEP TALKING.

BARBARIAN NOT-BARBARIAN DESTRUCITY AM ALREADY DETERMINED, AM NO MORE REASON TO CONTINUE GOING OVER IT. EVEN HYPERSPESHULIZED FIGHTY AM NOT ABLE TO DEAL WITH NON-SPECIALIZED FOR SAME AREA BARBARIAN IN AREA OF FIGHTY SPECIALTY.

AM TOO BAD; MAYBE BUFF FIGHTYS.

NOTHER SEMICOLON. BARBARIAN AM DEFINITELY GETTING A ON ENGLILSH TERM PAPER THIS TIME.


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Yamiko Kurogetsu wrote:
heck, Am Barbarian owes me some brutal foreplay and a few broken bones.

BARBARIAN AM ROLLING GRAPPLE CHECK FOR FOREPLAY, BUT LADY AM USING GREASE. NOT USE STRENGTH SURGE, BARBARIAN SNAP CASTY LADY IN HALF.

BARBARIAN AM STRONG.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Leongorance wrote:


Hmmm do you red table correctly?

Maybe i am wrong but as far as i remember table is made for medium armors.And therefore when calculating for light is /2 and when you are counting for heavy its x2.You have it at the bottom of table.So for heavy isnt 5x9,it is 10x9 if i am correct.So it is 170 hit points.I might be wrong on that one thou...dont have book here atm,so cant check it.

I prefer to blue table myself, but red works in a pinch.

Yes, the table is for Medium armors, and we are talking about Medium size full plate. Unless your fighter is some ogre or something? Or Enlarged? But I don't think Enlarge Person adds HP to items.


Quote:
Maybe i am wrong but as far as i remember table is made for medium armors

Am I the only one who, after reading this quote in this thread (with AM BARBARIAN), pictured somebody making medium armor from a red table?


Casters>>Martial in mid and upper-level play. There really isn't much competition.

Unfortunately, Paizo ignored a lot of the issues with 3.5e to avoid upsetting the 3e grognards that Pathfinder is marketed towards.

It's a shame, but maybe when the next edition of Pathfinder is released the caster-martial disparity will finally be addressed.


Black Knight wrote:

Casters>>Martial in mid and upper-level play. There really isn't much competition.

Unfortunately, Paizo ignored a lot of the issues with 3.5e to avoid upsetting the 3e grognards that Pathfinder is marketed towards.

It's a shame, but maybe when the next edition of Pathfinder is released the caster-martial disparity will finally be addressed.

Why do these posts never have examples?

Shadow Lodge

Andy Ferguson wrote:

Why do these posts never have examples?

Because examples never convince anyone.


AM BARBARIAN is right, it takes a lot of specialization for a fighter to beat a barbarian. Thankfully most fighters specialise anyway, I'd wager that such a fighter (In this case a Massive AC turtle dwarf is still pretty damn good at killing other stuff.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TOZ wrote:
Andy Ferguson wrote:

Why do these posts never have examples?

Because examples never convince anyone.

Besides, last time that somebody's lab-environment theorycraft "reality is irrelevant" tests made the headlines, it was at Fukushima.


Case in Point. I cannot defeat AM BARBARIAN in a fair fight.
He's not evil. So he cannot be smited. Whilst I'd put in a mighty effort if it came to blows (my mount has a flying saddle, and I have mounted skirmisher), good sense says I'd have best chance by attacking his bat

Either way, Witnesses would remember such a contest.

Won't happen though. We're far more likely to take out a Great Wyrm in an epic ariel battle of Good (me) and Crazy (AM BARBARIAN) vs evil.


I MIGHT be able to drop him. Have my mount continually stay at a standoff distance, While I fill his mount, then him full of arrows.

(See my build in the advice section- Luring, Strategist CAVALIER)


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

BARBARIAN AM USING SMASHER RAGE POWER, IT BYPASS HARDNESS. ADAMANTINE APPROXIMATELY AS HARD AS PAPER TO BARBARIAN.

BARBARIAN ALSO FIGURE SQUISHY ARMORED GUY AM USING HASTEYS.

NOTE BARBARIAN AM NOT INCLUDE HASTEYS BECAUSE THIS AM BUFF EVERYONE AM HAVING. BARBARIAN ASSUME FIGHTY KNEW THIS, BARBARIAN AM SADLY NOT INTRIGUED TO SEE AM NOT KNOWING. BARBARIAN ROUND AM LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

AM CHARGE IN FROM HUGE DISTANCE AWAY ON BATTY BAT.

AM FULL ROUND ACTION.

AM USE SMASHER ON FIRST ACTION.

BARBARIAN AM ALREADY HAVING +74 AFTER GREATER SUNDER. AM NOT SURE IF FEETS AM OPEN, BARBARIAN AM THOUGHT EXPERIMENT.

THEN BARBARIAN AM GET ADDITIONAL +1 FROM HASTYS. AM +75. AFTER THAT, BARBARIAN AM NOTING HE AM SUNDER ARMOR, NOT WEAPON. AM APPROXIMATELY 4+2+4 TOO HIGH DUE TO GLOVE THINGYS. BONUS AM NOT 97, AM 87. LEARN TO MATHS, FIGHTY AM WORSE AT IT THAN BARBARIAN. AM FAIRLY SAD. IF BARBARIAN AM GO FIRST (BARBARIAN CHARGE RADIUS 360 FEET DUE TO DIVING BATTY BAT OF AWESOME, SO LIKELY TO GO FIRST AND BARBARIAN AM ALWAYS WIN INITIATIVE) AM BECOME 81. IF FIGHTY GO FIRST, BARBARIAN JUST SMASH CASTYS. FIGHTY AM NOT GOOD AT GETTING IN BATTY BAT WAY.

MOVING ON, BARBARIAN AM THEN CHARGING. THIS AM MAKING BARBARIAN BONUS AT +77. WHEN BARBARIAN MOVE FIRST, THIS AM 85% CHANCE OF HIT. WHEN BARBARIAN NOT MOVE FIRST, BARBARIAN USE BATTY BAT TO GET WHERE BARBARIAN NEED GO TO MOVE FIRST. BARBARIAN AM UNFAIR. ON CHARGING RAGELANCEPOUNCE, BARBARIAN AM DEALING APPROXIMATELY...

3D8+87 PER HIT. MATH AM REALLY FAST, ONLY ASSUME +14 STR AND +7 FROM WEAPON, WITH MINIMAL BONUS. SMASHER AM IGNORE ITEM HARDNESS, THUS AM DEALING AVERAGE OF 100.5 DAMAGE TO ADAMANTINE ARMOR WITHOUT EVEN POWER ATTACKING REGARDLESS OF ADAMANTINENESS OF ARMOR. BARBARIAN AM PUNCH THROUGH TWO AND HALF INCHES OF ADAMANTINE NO PROBLEM. AM LANCE THAT PIERCE HEAVENS.

ALSO, POUNCE AM STILL LEAVING BARBARIAN WITH REMAINING FOUR ATTACKS. AND FIGHTY JUST LOST 14 AC AT LEAST.

IS PITY, BUT EVEN CRAZY FIGHTY HAVE 85% CHANCE OF LOSS TO BARBARIAN....

His Target is too high. The +20 favored class bonus vs Sunder is something HUMAN fighters can get. The turtle was a DWARF. They can get +20 vs trip and Grapple.

Whatsmore, any HUMAN fighter who takes the Favored Class defense option should take it vs Grapple and Trip (the two most common monster Combat Maneuvers).


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

BARBARIAN AM USING SMASHER RAGE POWER, IT BYPASS HARDNESS. ADAMANTINE APPROXIMATELY AS HARD AS PAPER TO BARBARIAN.

BARBARIAN ALSO FIGURE SQUISHY ARMORED GUY AM USING HASTEYS.

NOTE BARBARIAN AM NOT INCLUDE HASTEYS BECAUSE THIS AM BUFF EVERYONE AM HAVING. BARBARIAN ASSUME FIGHTY KNEW THIS, BARBARIAN AM SADLY NOT INTRIGUED TO SEE AM NOT KNOWING. BARBARIAN ROUND AM LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

AM CHARGE IN FROM HUGE DISTANCE AWAY ON BATTY BAT.

AM FULL ROUND ACTION.

AM USE SMASHER ON FIRST ACTION.

BARBARIAN AM ALREADY HAVING +74 AFTER GREATER SUNDER. AM NOT SURE IF FEETS AM OPEN, BARBARIAN AM THOUGHT EXPERIMENT.

THEN BARBARIAN AM GET ADDITIONAL +1 FROM HASTYS. AM +75. AFTER THAT, BARBARIAN AM NOTING HE AM SUNDER ARMOR, NOT WEAPON. AM APPROXIMATELY 4+2+4 TOO HIGH DUE TO GLOVE THINGYS. BONUS AM NOT 97, AM 87. LEARN TO MATHS, FIGHTY AM WORSE AT IT THAN BARBARIAN. AM FAIRLY SAD. IF BARBARIAN AM GO FIRST (BARBARIAN CHARGE RADIUS 360 FEET DUE TO DIVING BATTY BAT OF AWESOME, SO LIKELY TO GO FIRST AND BARBARIAN AM ALWAYS WIN INITIATIVE) AM BECOME 81. IF FIGHTY GO FIRST, BARBARIAN JUST SMASH CASTYS. FIGHTY AM NOT GOOD AT GETTING IN BATTY BAT WAY.

MOVING ON, BARBARIAN AM THEN CHARGING. THIS AM MAKING BARBARIAN BONUS AT +77. WHEN BARBARIAN MOVE FIRST, THIS AM 85% CHANCE OF HIT. WHEN BARBARIAN NOT MOVE FIRST, BARBARIAN USE BATTY BAT TO GET WHERE BARBARIAN NEED GO TO MOVE FIRST. BARBARIAN AM UNFAIR. ON CHARGING RAGELANCEPOUNCE, BARBARIAN AM DEALING APPROXIMATELY...

3D8+87 PER HIT. MATH AM REALLY FAST, ONLY ASSUME +14 STR AND +7 FROM WEAPON, WITH MINIMAL BONUS. SMASHER AM IGNORE ITEM HARDNESS, THUS AM DEALING AVERAGE OF 100.5 DAMAGE TO ADAMANTINE ARMOR WITHOUT EVEN POWER ATTACKING REGARDLESS OF ADAMANTINENESS OF ARMOR. BARBARIAN AM PUNCH THROUGH TWO AND HALF INCHES OF ADAMANTINE NO PROBLEM. AM LANCE THAT PIERCE HEAVENS.

ALSO, POUNCE AM STILL LEAVING BARBARIAN WITH REMAINING FOUR ATTACKS. AND FIGHTY JUST LOST 14 AC AT LEAST.

IS PITY, BUT EVEN CRAZY FIGHTY HAVE 85% CHANCE OF LOSS TO BARBARIAN....

Yes,and fighter will just stand there and watch you carhging all te time while he is doing nothing.If you loose so many rounds just charging fighter then you loose alot.And besides that 360 you are talking might occur on some huge meddow or somethin.On 99% of terrian you WONT be able to do that.

Btw when you are crahging you are using lance in one hand,so you dont calculate x1.5 str,so you wont do 100 dmg.

And most important thing,because of lance you made that high dmg on armor,and your lance have reach.As far as i know(might be wrong thou) you cannot attack target that is adjactent to you with reach weapon.So imagine with following step+pin down+stand still what will happen,and will you hit me again after that first charge.

Also one crit is enough for you to go down from bat,unless you have 100+ride skill.Plus stun(or staggered-only can use single action on your turn,move or standrad,but no full attack))on crit,and on 5 hits crit chance with scimitar is over 85%.

Anyway,TOZ.You are right,my fault,didnt have table than.My apologize for that.

Cheers


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CLEARLY FIGHTY AM NOT HEAR OF RIDE BY ATTACK.

BARBARIAN ON BAT AM HAVING ABILITY TO CHARGE - FULL ATTACK - MOVE AGAIN.

UNLESS FIGHTY AM ABLE TO ALSO CHARGE - FULL ATTACK - MOVE AGAIN, ARGUMENT AM UMINPORTANT.

BARBARIAN AM ALSO NOTING THAT RULES TEXT SAY 'CAN' WEILD LANCE ONE HANDED ON MOUNT. ONLY CRAPPY BARBARIAN PAY ATTENTION TO THAT RULE, BECAUSE CAN AM NOT MUST. AM MORE EVIDENCE OF BARBARIAN NOT-BARBARIAN INTELLIGCENCE DESTRUCITY.

BARBARIAN SO SMART, AM INVENTING NEW WAYS TO SPELL INTELLIGCENCE.

UM... BARBARIAN AM FORGETTING WHERE TO GO NEXT WITH POINT. LET BARBARIAN CONSULT 'ARGUING BARBARIAN NOT-BARBARIAN DESTRUCITY ON INTERENTS.' AM PAMPHLET BARBARIAN RITE FOR NEW PEOPLE TO GAME.

OH. FOUND PLACE. UHM. PAST LEVEL 5 ALL COMBAT AM ON NARROW FIELD, ANYONE WHO AM DECLARE OTHERWISE AM NOT PLAYING GAME PROPERLY.

AND TALKING ABOUT WHAT FIGHTY CAN DO DURING FULL ATTACK AM IRRELEVANT AS BATTY BAT AM NEVER GOING TO BE IN RANGE, AND IF FIGHTY AM USING FLY SPELL, BARBARIAN AM USING SPELL SUNDER TO SMASH FLY SPELL.

AM GOOD TRY THO. RIDE BY ATTACK NOT PROVOKE AND LET BARBARIAN REMAIN OUT OF REACH WHILE HAVING REACH, FEATS AM USELESS AGAINST ALL-MIGHTY BARBARIAN.

STOP MOVING GOALPOSTS. ONLY ONE ABLE DO THAT AM CATCHUP GUARD BARBARIAN, AND ONLY BECAUSE CATCHUP GUARD BARBARIAN AM PROFICIENT.

BARBARIAN AM CLEARLY WINNER.


AM BARBARIAN I was told and read that you could not pounce while mount because the mount is charging not you. Is that wrong since you put that is what you are doing on Batty Bat?


oh, my poor eyes.


Evil Lincoln wrote:
oh, my poor eyes.

Don't complain too much...the thread has devolved just as you wanted it to.


Leongorance wrote:

Also one crit is enough for you to go down from bat,unless you have 100+ride skill.Plus stun(or staggered-only can use single action on your turn,move or standrad,but no full attack))on crit,and on 5 hits crit chance with scimitar is over 85%.

Anyway,TOZ.You are right,my fault,didnt have table than.My apologize for that.

Cheers

You have not read the Barbarian handbook apparently. Crit is very ineffective against a well planned barbarian. Heres why....Heavy Fortification. Because barbarians care little about AC and focus more on HP and DR heavy fortification is much better as it prevents the big spikes in damage that would potentially kill you. Also, since invulnerable ragers drop uncanny dodge and can be sneak attacked it helps out there too. So drop that huge percent way way down.

Anyone know how to do the math on that? do you just multiply his percent to crit by .25 and that's his new chance?


Mrdarknlight wrote:
AM BARBARIAN I was told and read that you could not pounce while mount because the mount is charging not you. Is that wrong since you put that is what you are doing on Batty Bat?

AM DIRTY FIAT TO KEEP CASTYS ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH BARBARIAN.


Oh make sense. Keep up the good work AM BARBARIAN.

Shadow Lodge

oh yeah but then my tetori monk grapples you, breaks your jaw, hits you in the face 13 times and then chokes you out.

wait this isnt melee vrs melee? oh sorry.


I'm well versed in playin all classes, and usually i think that divine casters are slighty better than other. But... there's no class that rules all. Hyper specilized PCs are fragile. If you can only hit hard, you will not survive long. A lot of people here (casters fans) seems to forget that spells are not cheap. Spellbook, material components. If you play easy go spammin spells mage with enormous spellbook is sure that you can show some power, but if you consider the expense, warrior should be pimped like no one in exchange. It's a matter of gold, guys. In fact, there's no a better PC, only a better party.
Then, we should also consider the role and option of everyone. I will not mention this time stealth classes, but paladin and barbarian have a lot of way to evade spells. Damn, now they can eat and sunder spells. You can't bring a barbarian down before his party dispel your invisibility and the rogue oneshot you. Indeed, i'm wondering if he can't do himself, with a few magical items and well chosen powers. Maybe warriors have more problems, but this is not a solo playing game.


I would like to break character for a moment here just to point out that nobody is trying to clam barbarians lose versus casters anymore, and are instead making super focused melee builds specifically to try and beat a barbarian.

...I think Barbarians may have just become Pathfinder's first full-bab caster.

Naturally, they cast off of STR, and all their spells damage something.


Trinam wrote:

I would like to break character for a moment here just to point out that nobody is trying to clam barbarians lose versus casters anymore, and are instead making super focused melee builds specifically to try and beat a barbarian.

...I think Barbarians may have just become Pathfinder's first full-bab caster.

Naturally, they cast off of STR, and all their spells damage something.

Given the number of supernatural abilities that are rage powers meaning that they don't function in Magic Dead OR Anti-magic fields they may be full BAB Gish for sure.


Dragonsong wrote:
Trinam wrote:

I would like to break character for a moment here just to point out that nobody is trying to clam barbarians lose versus casters anymore, and are instead making super focused melee builds specifically to try and beat a barbarian.

...I think Barbarians may have just become Pathfinder's first full-bab caster.

Naturally, they cast off of STR, and all their spells damage something.

Given the number of supernatural abilities that are rage powers meaning that they don't function in Magic Dead OR Anti-magic fields they may be full BAB Gish for sure.

Having all that goodness as Extraordinary Abilities is sweet. Barbarians are the first and only caster class to fully function in an anti-magic field.


AM FUNCTION BETTER. ANTIMAGIC FIELD AM SPELL TO. BARBARIAN AM SMASH.


Lab_Rat wrote:
Having all that goodness as Extraordinary Abilities is sweet. Barbarians are the first and only caster class to fully function in an anti-magic field.

Umm please to read sure seems like a lot of supernatural abilities on that list.

Sorry AM spell sunder is SU and cant be used in the field.


DOH.

AM OK. STAND JUST OUTSIDE THEN.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

DOH.

AM OK. STAND JUST OUTSIDE THEN.

with what weapon no 15 ft reach weapons in the game other than whip which is ranged and thus cant be used to sunder?

You need awl pike which dosen't exist.

In other words you AM CASTER. as Caster only screw with messes with you.


WHAT? NO. BARBARIAN AM CONFUSE.

BARBARIAN JUST STAND OUTSIDE FIELD AND THEN AM SUNDER FIELD WITH SPELL SUNDER.

OR JUST CHARGE SQUISHY CASTY.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

WHAT? NO. BARBARIAN AM CONFUSE.

BARBARIAN JUST STAND OUTSIDE FIELD AND THEN AM SUNDER FIELD WITH SPELL SUNDER.

OR JUST CHARGE SQUISHY CASTY.

AMF is 10 square emanation FROM caster. IE caster must be in range of weapon to sunder as source of effect. To use SU you must be able to attack caster but still be 15ft away. You charge you enter field and loose all SU rage powers including totems and spell sunder.

I will point out that its super sad that AMF is the best defence against a Barb it's wicked wrong.


Just use Lunge or Enlarge Person.


To be specific, amf isn't an effect on a creature, only an emanation centered on a creature.

He has to hit you for effects going on you, like dominate person. Effects like prismatic sphere or amf he just has to hit the emanation, since the spell is not specifically on you.

Spell Sunder is beastly.


Azten wrote:
Just use Lunge or Enlarge Person.

Or that.


Trinam wrote:

To be specific, amf isn't an effect on a creature, only an emanation centered on a creature.

He has to hit you for effects going on you, like dominate person. Effects like prismatic sphere or amf he just has to hit the emanation, since the spell is not specifically on you.

Spell Sunder is beastly.

Is there an eratta on that because that is not how the effect reads to me?


You end an ongoing effect by beating it at a sunder check of 10+cl. If it's an effect on a creature, it's cmd+5. AMF is not an effect on a creature, it says it's an emanation. Effects on a creature are targeted, like Haste targets.


This is not a problem- AMF is centered on the caster (who is inside). Pounce will kill him just fine :)


STR Ranger wrote:
This is not a problem- AMF is centered on the caster (who is inside). Pounce will kill him just fine :)

No because pounce is a SU so you lose full attacks on charges as soon as you enter the field.


Trinam wrote:
You end an ongoing effect by beating it at a sunder check of 10+cl. If it's an effect on a creature, it's cmd+5. AMF is not an effect on a creature, it says it's an emanation. Effects on a creature are targeted, like Haste targets.

OK that makes sense I don't agree with the wording of emanation but I can see that distinction in the rules making it work like that.

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