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Rysky wrote:

Well this information has kinda been circulating the forums for awhile (since Paizocon?) so not that much of a spoiler, but even then,

CorvusMask wrote:

I mean, I was curious about whether they would kill of Tyrant of not, but I didn't think they would really do it.

Its not really buzzkill as long players don't assume the AP is about destroying Tyrant and not just preventing him from becoming a god :p

(also, seriously, this AP is worth it just for map art. I'm not even kidding, map art from war for the crown and afterwards has been super duper awesome)

You probably do kill him to stop him from ascending to the Starstone.

But that's the thing. He's a Lich.

Killing them is as much of a setback as them stubbing their toe in the morning.

It is still easier to stop a lich than trying to stop a god lich.

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Arachnofiend wrote:
I'd be quite happy to see prestige classes that are tied to a mechanical concept rather than a theme of being prestigious go the way of the dodo. An Arcane Trickster is just a Rogue with spells, a Mystic Theurge is just a wizard who is also a cleric (or perhaps a cleric who is also a wizard). Neither of these things need to be gated behind a prestige class, and doing so just means that the people who want to play this concept have to spend many levels playing a different concept first.

And it makes it in theory easier over time to just add feats and stuff to help give focus to people who want to go those ways and increase their theme/flavor without needing to make an entire class when its not necessary.

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The Raven Black wrote:
Pompous Aristocrat wrote:
All these mortals lusting after divinity, when immortality is just a vampire-bite away.

IIRC Tar-Baphon wants to become a God because he wants to be forever. Undeath is no guarantee of unending.

Also, if something has stats, PCs will destroy it.

Aroden showed nothing is forever not even being a god.

QuidEst wrote:
Ooh, playable swarm! I wonder how armor works there. I wonder if I can cast polymorph to pretend to be humanoid? Surprise people by letting the spell expire?

Technically we already had a playable swarm race with the shirren.

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Elorebaen wrote:
Love the new wand rules. Easy to manage, much more interesting conceptually, and the risk/reward approach to overcharge adds a touch of excitement, not to mention another good reason to have a good repairman in the party.

Seems like a solid way to handle them. Most casters are going to want a few wands for some common stuff you probably will use during combat at least once per day to help bulk up your spells per day without just being a book keeping nightmare. The resonance stuff in the playtest + charges was pretty wtf that was the opposite of helping book keeping issues.

Now it would be super easy to just have a few playing cards and flip them when your wands are used.

HammerJack wrote:
I have not built a ship without a recreation suite. I want the entire party to still be alive when they get to their destination.

Same I also sort of assume most recreation suites also come with a virtual gun range/shooting type thing so you can keep yourself amused and keep your skills up without having to fire live ordnance in your own ship.

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Claxon wrote:
Pogiforce wrote:
I also thought Inspiring Boost would be first, since anyone can shoot things but battlefield healing is at a premium.

It's at best a once per combat per person heal.

I can tell you that my experience for my melee soldier is that it would basically negate one attack that I took. Which isn't bad, but also isn't as useful generally, as the attack bonus. And denying everyone the attack bonus that round to do it, is the real problem. Although, I guess you could regular Get 'Em and do Inspiring Boost. It's still on the lack luster side, in my opinion.

The only problem with limiting it to once per person per combat is that usually damage is not evenly distributed. My melee solider takes a majority of the damage most of the time (unless I'm not doing my job or we get rushed by lots of melee enemies at once).

I think it depends how long your "adventuring days" are. Inspiring boost just used once on each person per day is not that impressive but you can do that every single combat if you have minimal breaks and the resolve saving means you can as a group afford to push and do more than a group without an envoy could safely. Over the course of an adventure it adds up to a lot of damage mitigation.

If you are in a group that does one or two fights and then does a long rest then yes probably not that useful.

I think eventually starfinder likely will wind up with more class specific type archetype options. I think early on they wanted to make sure that their archetypes could be used by any class simply so they could get as much content out for people as possible to use if they wanted.

Pact worlds archetypes have some better options that started adjusting the level you gain powers a bit more to make them at least a bit more appealing.

One issue though is even with this a lot of the archetype powers especially early on are just not as good as your class specific ability you are giving up for it. A lot of times you are losing a lot of mechanical power for minimal RP flavor gain.

Anorak wrote:

I can't praise it enough! It is a beautiful product and I've used it to recruit 3 new players so far!

I do have to ask why you left out the Solarion and Kasatha!

Some cuts needed to be happen to fit everything into the box which is I think why kasatha got the ax. Solarion are a higher skill cap/understanding cap class which is why they got dropped from the beginner box. It is like why the engineer iconic got changed to be exocortex for the beginner box. Less other mechanics to learn and simpler rules to be introduced too.

Shinigami02 wrote:
Jasque wrote:

There is a recycling system expansion bay for starships that states:

Starfinder #6: Empire of Bones pg. 46 wrote:

Note: The following Expansion Bay is compatible only with a Supercolossal ship.

A recycling system enables a Supercolossal starship to be nearly self-sustaining, operating independently for decades or even centuries. A combination of smelters, biomass processors, manufacturing, and UPB converters allows the ship to convert almost all its waste into goods and materials.

It appears that items can be broken down into UPBs with "smelters, biomass processors, and manufacturing." I assume the "UPB converters" then convert the UPBs back into useful items.

The recycling system is the size of a cargo bay, and it can convert "almost all" the waste generated on a starship into UPBs.

I do think it's worth noting that while it is 1 Expansion Bay in size, the recycling system only works with supercolossal ships. AKA a size beyond the "15,000+ feet" long category. So while technically all expansion bays are supposed to be the same size, that kind of size restriction makes it not unreasonable to believe there might be something more to what goes into the recycling system. Like, it might not be all that compact.

It may just be that the amount of "feedstock" necessary to keep the reaction going in a sustainable manner needs a super colossus worth of input from people to be efficient enough to bother with. It may also be energy requirements if you have enough energy to pump into something there are a lot of conversions you can do simply by throwing atoms at each other.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Lethallin wrote:
Jasque wrote:
The recycling system is the size of a cargo bay, and it can convert "almost all" the waste generated on a starship into UPBs

I can envision certain people (like myself) being immensely amused by yesterday's biologically processed food being turned into a laser pistol.

Any quite a few others being rather horrified at the idea of their shirt being made of the same stuff.

hey, parts is parts.

If you can manipulate matter at a small enough level its all lego blocks animal/vegetable/mineral makes no real difference it's all atoms and molecules.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Derry L. Zimeye wrote:
My burning question is what replaces TAC? Is it Reflex DCs, regular AC, what
It looks like most stuff just uses AC. Given that casting stats are now used to attack with spells, this is probably fine.

Honestly spells and other attacks using the same mechanics is a lot easier for new players to understand. I get what touch AC was doing but in the end probably easy enough to get the same effect with just some ability based modifiers instead of having a different mechanic.

Xenocrat wrote:

There are zero galactic superpowers because the galaxy is too large for any political entity to have explored more than a small fraction of it or maintain diplomatic (or undiplomatic) relations with more than a very tiny fraction of it.

I don't think there is likely to be a galactic superpower as such for a while because drift travel is just not that old. The azlanti have one of the biggest "star empires" because they used magic or non FTL to colonize a handful of worlds. Otherwise most of the polities we have seen are like the pact worlds where primarily single system focused entities.

There may be others out there that used magic or other travel methods like the shadow drive but so far what we have seen is not really showing much in the way of massive settled world factions.

The swarm could be a something like that but it depends if they are just a nomadic force that strips a world and moves on or if they actually setup and colonize as their swarm moves around.

Master Han Del of the Web wrote:
If memory serves, yes they do. Most sufficiently complex AIs do. It’s actually kind of an issue in setting.

It seems like in setting if you are sentient you get assigned a soul. Even the undead I think have them but pharsasma is pissed because their undeath keeps their souls from traveling to their final destinations the way they are supposed to.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

No, and drift travel (probably deliberately) makes it a moot point.

Drift doesn't care about the distance between you and your destination. It only cares about the number/size of drift beacons. So 10,000 light years? Back to absolom station is 1d6 days. 1 light year? Back to absolom station is ..1d6 days.

Yup with the drift it largely does not matter where it is located because effectively it is right next door to everywhere due to the way absalom station works.

The side effect of that makes me wonder how long they can defend the pact worlds. It is just about the easiest place in the universe for any drift capable opponent to stage an attack at.

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One thing I guess I am not super clear on is there any time jump in the in game universe between pathfinder 1 and pathfinder 2?

I would have to guess this year is probably going to be beginner box, Alien archive 3 and then characters operation manual.

The beginners boxes are pretty huge undertakings so guessing whatever falls between that and character operation manual is something easier for them to put together which probably would be an alien archive.

Hiruma Kai wrote:
"Dr." Cupi wrote:
It explicitly states that all of the bonuses for the tool kits are circumstance bonuses in the paragraph describing general tool kits (pg. 221).
Ah, good catch. I'm used to the bonuses being listed explicitly next to the bonus, but you're absolutely right. On the bright side, circumstance bonuses generally stack unless from essentially the same source, so its not too different.

When trying to compare operatives and mechanics and the other classes skill this kind of thing is something very important. Two bonuses of the same type don't stack. The biggest one I have seen mess people up is insight bonuses. Operatives often at a glance look really out of whack but once you realize insight bonuses don't stack mechanics and operatives stay pretty close with the mechanics pulling ahead over time.

Also if you take the technomancer/engineer/operative they tend to be good with different kinds of computer systems.

Technomancers are great with alien/ancient tech. Being able to deal with any language helps a TON on your checks for this kind of thing a couple quick spells and they are good to go.

Mechanics especially exocortex ones are the best in combat hackers being able to wirelessly hack stuff while you are not in physical contact with the device is a huge plus. It allows for stealthy hacking of personal computers at bars or other social gatherings that would not be possible for others.

Operatives especially early on are really good sit down and concentrate type hackers. Also they and the envoys are generally competent enough to attempt most computer checks reasonably even if not really specializing in it.

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I am pretty sure the painful injection thing is so that you are not getting the boosted damage during a full attack. But makes a single attack round more viable damage wise.

Zwordsman wrote:

I think one reason there are less is that I feel like the Biohacker doesn't have much inbuilt support for melee.

Injections help. but I feel like they don't haave much mitigation or escape options

If you go toxin you can basically give everybody trying to hit you in melee -2 by injecting yourself with your buff. That plus heavy armor plus whatever debuffs you are applying to your opponents at least on paper make it look viable.

Also they do have a bio hacker option to do full level/damage with injection weapons if people don't want to spend feats on advanced weapon prof/spec.

One other option for them if you need gap closing/escapes is the enzymology their breakthrough is
When injected, the compound allows the target to take
an extra move action during their next turn. This move action can
be taken before or after a full action, but not during. Additionally,
all of the target’s modes of movement increase by 15 feet for 1
round, up to twice the target’s normal speed using that form of
movement, which affects the target’s jumping distance as normal
for increased speed. This counts as a haste effect, and the bonus
to speed is an enhancement bonus. If you are at least 7th level, all
of the target’s modes of movement instead increase by 30 feet. If
you are at least 13th level, all of the target’s modes of movement
instead increase by 50 feet.

Given you would be using it on yourself you are not going to miss and thats a pretty big get the hell into combat or GTFO of combat option.

So they do have stuff that would assist melee but if you want to go this route you would have to design and pick stuff to favor it more specifically than a ranged person would.

Dracomicron wrote:
VampByDay wrote:

Everyone seems to be talking about running with high dex, but a basic human could start with 16 Str and Int, heavy armor proficiency and weapon focus-basic melee, And could run around with an injection glove and some grooved shuriken. Level 3 pick up versatile focus and you could do a decent amount of damage in combat.

Maybe not the most optimal build, but possible, right?

If you were willing to hold off on versitile specialization, Elbarians would get you some extra Stamina with their con boost.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Over in the Iconics thread I speculated that Dwarves would make good Instinctive Biohackers; their Advanced Melee Weapon Proficiency and Specialization would ensure that they get full specialization damage on those injection gauntlets without having to sink any feats into it.

The dwarf could get Heavy Armor proficiency then focus on Strength and Wisdom (and be terrible at starship combat, but I digress).

One nice thing about the str route is there is a full line of advanced injection weapon ice daggers so their damage dealing is probably the best out of bio hackers. If you did you would probably need to pick heavy armor for your first feat. Dwarf would be a solid option too if you want more diversity of what weapon you are using but between pain claws and ice dagger thing they would have plenty to work with without ever bothering with advanced melee prof.

Dracomicron wrote:

"Needless" is kinda a strong word. The Biohacker's main job is not damage. They exist to buff and debuff and generally be a science person.

They're in the same support category as Envoys and Drone Mechanics.

So they CAN do full level damage if they want to Specialize, but it really isn't necessary. They're already getting a damage buff from being able to use injection longarms (the level 1 needle rifle does the same damage as a level 3 nightarch needler, and with longer range) and advanced melee weapons.

I wouldn't call it a feat tax.

I hope they add a full range of needle rifles the first one at level one in long arms is really solid combat tool at its level. If they extend that to a full normal level range weapon its a pretty big boost. They also get pretty easy access to full damage with small arms/injection weapons so they are one of the few classes that actually gets solid use out of small arms.

I am pretty sure the bio hacker thing still works there. It treats the ally as if they are flat footed but it does not actually make the ally flat footed. Basically its a way to model that if your buddy knows you can inject them with stuff to help them out they are not actively trying to dodge or evade what you are doing and may actually be presenting their body in a way that makes it easier for you to hit them.

KLGChaos wrote:
That seems to be a common theme with Vaguards. Their "EP doesn't matter". It's kinda disappointing that a major class feature can just be ignored.

Well that is probably good feedback now while they are still working on things. I have seen this coment a fair bit as well that in play EP doesn't wind up getting used/mattering much. They still seem like a solid class even without it but that mechanic I think needs some tweaking/revisions to make people both want to use them more and be able to do so.

Also it should be noted as you advance in levels your buffs last a pretty good chunk of time. Hitting your melee with buffs before they charge off to battle should be pretty easy and those are auto hit if done adjacent on a willing target. You can rebuff at a range but a lot of your buffs especially as things go on as you level probably are going to be the close quarters no miss ones.

Big Lemon wrote:
Nyerkh wrote:

Plus it's a reason to maybe not put longarms on pretty much everyone.
Which is the best part of shields IMO.

Yup it gives more of a reason why somebody would want to stick with small arms/basic melee and get some more diversity. I don't think they intended for everybody and their brother regardless of class basically always using long arms unless they are doing a specific melee or operator build.

I think skittermanders would probably do better becoming a core race when they eventually do a veskarium book as they could do core races from the more populace ones there. Since we are still mostly focused on the pact worlds major pact world players should be the ones listed.

Barathu seems a no brainer given how big of a foot print they have compared to other races.

The people from triaxus and Verces likely also should be core. The ones from verces are some of the earliest starfarers in the pact worlds.

One thing I find interesting is that the kathsha are a core race when given how tiny their overall population seems to be even bumping into one when not on their world ship would be a super rare occurrence.

Ascalaphus wrote:

If we're going to have extra "core" races, I would prefer them to be races that have played a significant role in the Pact Worlds/Veskarium and that you would not be terribly surprised to run into more.

* Ryphorians get around quite a bit through among others the Skyfire Legion.
* Skittermanders make for a good second race from the Veskarium.

Barathu really should wind up being a core race as well. If you look at the pact worlds they have both more population and more powerful influence than just about any of the other races. They control two gas giants and their associated moons. It seems odd things like ysoki are a core race but they are not given the ysoki really don't control anything other than some settlements on akiton.

Zwordsman wrote:

i've always imagined they somehow made hardlight sorta tools.

Probably not correct..
but i have always adored that idea.

I wonder how a battery fits in it, while fitting in the eye. but who knows.

Most of my group plays things like the engineer kits and now the biohacker stuff like mass effect omni tools. So basically hardlight+nanites+ space magic haha.

I think a bunch of people have touched on the scanner things range being a bit short for what it is for. Thats probably a pretty easy thing to dial in for usability. I also think as it increases in level it should improve to work like an advanced med kit because otherwise you are going to still need to cart one of those around in addition to your custom one which seems not intended.

Biohackers with some of the options can make at least decent close quarters people but to do it you are pretty much going ice injector knives/pain gloves + heavy armor and then take one of the main fields of study that help you. The one that gives you haste pretty early is useful or like me take toxicity that gives anybody trying to hit you in melee -2 penalty for a pretty long duration.

A melee bio hacker likely winds up um self medicating more than ranged ones do where you would be using a lot of your buff options on yourself to improve your speed or defense.

One kinda funny thing about the whole willing/unwilling stuff my party figured combatants would have dog tags with organ donor/DNR type stuff so they have another spot for treat while unconcious. So anybody with a med scanner can check their tags and see that they give consent to treatment when unconscious or not. Given we already do stuff like this in real life it seems pretty reasonable in a far future setting something like making clear if you would accept such treatment or not preemptively makes sense. If you are unconscious you are not going to make good choices so better to choose while you have your full faculties.

I hope with this book at very least they add in a another ranged injection weapon between 8 and 13. There is a big gap there for ranged users where you would go a number of levels basically either using a weapon that is growing more and more stale or having to shift to melee for a period of time if you wanted to just use injection weapons or use weapons that simply don't do damage.

ThermalCat wrote:
kaid wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
I hate to see people recommending the aeon cannon ship weapon for Mystics, as it leads the party to adopt a bad weapon just so one guy can be accurate. This only makes sense in a VERY narrow BP window where this is your best offensive option given other things you think you absolutely have to have. At some point, though, you're wondering why you don't upgrade this lame weapon to something beefier just because your Mystic wants to think he's contributing.
Given there are ships that are totally bioorganic and or mystical it makes a lot of sense to have more weapons flagged like the aeon cannon. Also it would make sense to have some upgrade options like mystic sensors or something so you could have instead of a science officer have a mystic officer doing a lot of the same things.
Why not let Mystics cast spells to enhance ship functions? Magic Torpedo anyone? I wouldn't make it an always-hit spell like Magic Missile, but it should help tracking rolls. Nothing huge, but things here and there that buff other roles, could fit with certain campaigns. Leomund's tiny escape pod, or Bit of Luck could be useful. Nothing that crosses the boundary between character and ship scale, like a +1 to damage is too powerful at the ship weapons level, but a finesse action like a bit of illusion to act as an aid-another to the Captain's Taunt action might be interesting.

I am kinda waiting for more rules on Bioorganic space ships. In theory an engineer on such a vessel would get better use out of life sciences than engineering and a mystic could be a good "ship doctor" to such a vessel.

Plus side for the speed issues of the dwarves there are a lot of ways to mitigate that even without class dipping. In close quarters type fights it should not be that much of an issue but for more open stuff shield move penalty plus armor move penalty do hurt.

Off the bat I took skill synergy just to gain some extra insight bonus to a couple skills. Was kinda torn on that or skill focus but +2 for insight and +2 for meds if I feel I REALLY want to succeed at a skill roll seemed solid.

I think my next one would be weapon focus if I can figure out if doing weapon focus small arms would auto grant me that same bonus to injection weapons in general. I am not sure if that would fly given how the write up is for injection expert. Still most of my carreer probably will be using injection pistols of some flavor for ranged attacks so probably worth doing anyway.

Xenocrat wrote:
I hate to see people recommending the aeon cannon ship weapon for Mystics, as it leads the party to adopt a bad weapon just so one guy can be accurate. This only makes sense in a VERY narrow BP window where this is your best offensive option given other things you think you absolutely have to have. At some point, though, you're wondering why you don't upgrade this lame weapon to something beefier just because your Mystic wants to think he's contributing.

Given there are ships that are totally bioorganic and or mystical it makes a lot of sense to have more weapons flagged like the aeon cannon. Also it would make sense to have some upgrade options like mystic sensors or something so you could have instead of a science officer have a mystic officer doing a lot of the same things.

VampByDay wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
We are absolutely looking at starship roles for all these classes. And we are aware we likely don't have them all covered well enough yet. What we really want is feedback from people who have run these characters through both normal and starship combat, with other characters, and their experiences, so we can fine tune where to go with these.

We ran several of the playtest characters through a few different games last week during our area’s week long toys-for-tots charity drive. I didn’t play one personally, but I sat at a table with a few. The general consensus was:

The new classes are cool, but have little to do in Starship combat.
Biohacker CAN do Engineering/computers (if they invest the skills) but are never going to beat, or even come close to a mechanic (or Technomancer for sensors) because their class gets no bonuses to those skills.

Vanguard’s only options are shooting IF they are dex based, or maybe face skills. A str-based vanguard With low Charisma is just boned.

Witchwarper again has nothing to do but captain.

Now this can be mitigated by skill synergy/skill focus/themes, but not all character builds have that option. At this point we now have mystic/Vanguard/Witchwarper that have nothing but captainry skills and all of them pale compared to the envoy. I mean, for a system that seems to want to push starship combat as a core part of gameplay, leaving out 3/10s of your classes unless they bend over backwards to fit YOUR mold seems. . . Counterintuitive.

I think one big thing they could do to help would be to make mystic weapons more common for ships. They exist on the azlanti ships that let you use your mysticism skill for gunnery which helps witchwarpers and mystics a lot. If you have a ship with extra spell casters giving them gunnery options is nice. Biohackers are competent gunners/science officers/engineers depending on skills and get a crap load of skill points so pretty easy to put some points to be competent enough to fill a hole. They may not be the best of the best but they would be competent.

Made my first bio hacker with the needle rifle and with as cheap as the gun is I was able to get some mk1 healing serums and a like 6 clips of ammo pretty reasonably. Also the needle rifle has bigger clips than most of the pistols so really nice for endurance for the first few levels of play when money for ammo is tightest.

Jack Rift wrote:

For none full base attack classes, weapon focus becomes +2 at later levels. You complained about not being able to hit with you injection guns, but then say you want the damage from longarms? You don't get both. The ability to hit for the buffs and debuffs is more important than damage, especially if your ability to hit with a longarm is less than the injection weapon. Plus, you are using the only class that can get full damage from weapon specialization with smallarms and eventually with all injection weapons, if you select that ability and its upgrade. Plus, smallarms has some strong damaging options available now, handcannon being the big one. Yeah, you don't get many shots with it, but d8s on a smallarm is nothing to ignore, especially with full weapon specialization bonus. The primary role of this class is buff/debuff, not damage. So focus on making that the best, with the ability to reliably hit when those are out as needed.

For the melee build, you complained about low ACs, but want the damage of two handed weapons. Well, either buff AC via using shields, cover, or raise Dex. Again, you don't get all of them easily. Most none primary melee classes, Soldier, Solarian, and Vanguard, struggle at early levels. Heck, those three do as well, which means you either figured work arounds or except that you will have to compromise. Low ACs for front line characters should never be the compromise though, especially with how the NPCs to hit bonus are calculated.

I would note that at low levels the needle rifle is really nice. It is a long arm so it does 1d6 damage at level 1 and is an injection weapon. Given it is an injection weapon it allows you to get the damage of a basic long weapon with the accuracy of the injection weapon. It is sad they don't get further variants of those as they level but at least for the first 3 or so levels you can get the best of both worlds.

The Ragi wrote:
Lightning Raven wrote:
How frequent poison resistance is found in Starfinder's monsters?

According to the Universal Monster Rules, we find poison immunity in: Constructs, Elementals, Oozes, Plant and Undead.

And also creatures with "No Breath" would be immune to the toxicology restorative.

Undead and constructs would be the most common, indeed.

At least the generic counter agents specifically list that they work on unliving targets. So even against things immune to poison they still have a lot of options and tools to use which is nice.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
kaid wrote:

I think it also should be noted dart weapons fire darts. Syringes are not what is being fired. To use the injection with a dart weapon you use your syringe to load the darts payload container that is used to deliver poisons/serums/what not.

So you're arguing that its not a syringe, its just a liquid filled hollow container with a needle on the end of it full of a drug that the device injects into the target... but that its not a syringe.

You are right it is the weapon dart ammunition. All of the dart weapons ammo with the injection capability have a reservoir for a chemical to be inserted into them. Just as modern dart guns are not just shooting random syringes at their targets they use a specific type of ammunition loaded with the chemical they are trying to deploy.

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The Ragi wrote:

"Most optimal" races considering stats only, and when they match up, racial abilities.

I wouldn't spend money on any injection weapons above the Needler Pistol, if I didn't need to put a Conserving Fusion on it.

Right now, I just don't see full attacking with injections being such a top priority, considering the added risk to miss.

That said, I'm only playtesting a couple of level 1 biohackers (the most played level). Higher levels might be something else, but that's beyond my scope.

Given their increased accuracy and near full BAB with injection weapons full attacking with bio weapons is fine one thing that is nice is if you have preloaded your weapon with injections expert you can choose to use different ammo for each shot or not use any special feature and just use plain darts instead on the fly.

At low levels biohackers can use dart rifle right away which is a pretty nice bonus for a small arms user having access to a very inexpensive starter long arm rifle. Good ammo capacity and given how cheap it is you can buy a bunch of extra clips for it and still be a lot cheaper than what most of your party is using.

I think it also should be noted dart weapons fire darts. Syringes are not what is being fired. To use the injection with a dart weapon you use your syringe to load the darts payload container that is used to deliver poisons/serums/what not.

Honestly if they did not want the conversing to return missed healing serums fired via dart guns then it should have left off darts completly. The damage darts do is and always was secondary to the payload they can contain. If you just want to do damage there are better choices to use you use darts because of what you can load into them so conserving those loads is sensible. Honestly it seems less trouble believing the dart with contents teleports back to the weapon if missed than a bullet somehow unexplodes and rebuilds its powder and charge.

Zwordsman wrote:

Which leads to another question.

Can you take your syringe... and inject that stuff into a normal dart?

From how it is listed that sounds like exactly what you do when you prepare your daily syringes then you can either immediately inject those into darts to use in your dart weapons or hold off and do them when you need them. Seems a sensible way to put the chemicals into the darts anyway just have a lil sealing membrane that you put the injection into then when you pull it out its ready to go.

SuperBidi wrote:
Zwordsman wrote:

Thoughts on that angle?

I think your answer doesn't catch the real issue.

The way Conserving fusion is written specifically forbids to keep spells (Supercharge Weapon) and other class abilities. Injections are class abilities, and Conserving weapons would allow you to use them more often per day. So, the real question is: Do the conceptors think it's broken or not?
Currently, the way it is written, you don't keep them. If I was DMing a SFS game, and without clarifications, injections would be expanded on a miss.

There is another issue with Injections. If I use an injection with a melee weapon and miss, is the Injection expanded?
The answer to both questions should be the same.

If you ask my opinion on that matter, I think Conserving should work and Injection should not be expanded on a melee miss. I'm just stating that, even if everyone wants it to work, RAW, it's not written that way, and a nit-picker DM may annoy you (in case of SFS games, for a home game, it's another issue).

One major difference between super charge weapon and injections of serums via dart would be that things like super charge weapon is for supercharge weapon it has a specific condition. If the next attack hits in this case the next hit failed so you lose the charge but you still get the ammo back. In the case of injection weapons the darts are made to hold a payload of liquid be it poison/serums/or bio hacker chemicals. You fill the physical dart with a substance it is designed to contain. It makes little sense why something that lets you preserve the ammunition would not preserve what is contained inside it. When you get a rocket back it is not missing its explosives or fuel.

The substances you are putting into those darts basically is good for 24 hours before it becomes inert so unlike some other similar weapon enhancing powers there is no real time limitation of if the thing is not used quickly it disperses.

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One thing to note +str +int potentially works well for biohackers as well or plus STR plus wisdom.

There is a full line of injection cryo knives that are an advanced melee weapon so they have better damage scaling that they are proficient with. There are also the pain claw options as well.

Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:

I'm really digging the concept of the Biohacker, but I had a few queries...

Starfinder Character Operations Manual Playtest pg. 3 wrote:
You must hit an unwilling creature with a melee attack to inject them with an injection, and an injection counts as a consumable basic melee weapon for this purpose.

Question: If I make a melee attack to inject with an injection and miss, is the injection expended? If it's not expended, is the type determined (i.e., if I attempt another melee attack to inject the target on my next turn, can I still decide what type the injection is as part of that standard action)?

Starfinder Character Operations Manual Playtest pg. 3 wrote:
An injection can also be loaded into a weapon with the injection weapon special property as a move action, and you can deliver the injection with a normal attack with that weapon.

Question: How does this interact with the conserving fusion (Armory pg. 62), which causes your weapon to not consume ammunition that misses that target? Is just the dart conserved, or the dart and the injection?

Question: This one isn't directly based on the Biohacker's class abilities, but is sure to come up eventually. What freely available equipment can be loaded into a weapon with the injection property? Poisons, drugs, and medicinals are explicitly called out in the CRB, but what about serums? The flavor text for darts (the ammunition) suggests yes, but the description of serums indicates that you can only imbibe them orally. And what about spell amps? Their descriptive text outlines them as delivered by injection, but no injection weapons or ammunition reference them.

serums work I believe it was called out early that you could use injection weapons to heal people by shooting them with a healing serum. It also is why it is important that biohackers can chose to NOT do damage when using their stuff on allies.

The Ragi wrote:
I'd rather be able to upgrade it to an advanced medkit at a higher level without having to pay the extra cost.

I would recommend once they hit level 4 it upgrades to advanced medkit.

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Still being able to give your melee fighter the toxic "restorative" that makes anybody who attempts to hit them in melee -2 to hit them for four rounds at level one is a pretty solid buff that can easily be given before the fight starts.

Applying stuff at a range being something that can fail is the downside of a lot of their stuff either stacking with other buffs or applying some serious conditions at a range.

At level 2 you can rock a +6 to hit friendly targets at a range not including any dex or other feat modifiers. If you are worried about trying to apply this stuff to friendly targets at a range you can mitigate that pretty well.

Otherwise just get adjacent to them and there is no chance of flubbing.

Also there is the conserving fusion that appears to let you on a miss not expend the injection/serum as it specifically works on dart weapons. If you find yourself needing to shoot healing serums on the battlefield investing in the conservation fusion when you are able to acquire it seems very much worth doing.

Blake's Tiger wrote:

First, you're right, I must have scrolled back too far when checking for the skill points. It's 4.

Now, I'm not saying that infinite worlds is overpowered by itself. I'm saying it's useful and is added to multiple other useful abilities, more in utility and in frequency than what technomancer can provide and more in frequency than many mystic abilities. That's why I suggested trimming down on the uses rather than reworking the ability.

You're undervaluing difficult terrain. It can be the difference between an alien creature or a solarian reaching you in 1 move action and 2 move actions. It can prevent the shooter from taking a guarded step away from your party's solarian.

The elevation effect has several uses including the ones you mention. 3/day now.

Armored enemies also need their environmental protections turned on to avoid radiatiom, something that is not a given indoors or on a habitable planet. This effect is the same as a 3rd level spell, irradiate plus the option for other effects. Increased gravity gives half-speed movement and quite possibly encumbers anyone in armor (-5 to hit and initiative among other effects).

All it takes is for the ability to be useful sometimes (as opposed to a 9th level class ability that replicates an ability anyone wearing armor is assumed to have).

Also note raising terrain is nice but lowering it is good too. Sometimes you need to make the barrel to put the ducks into before shooting them. Alien critters charging you boop now they are in a 10 foot pit where you can rain fire down into until they either climb out while being shot at or just get shot to pieces. A lot of animal critters don't have a lot in the way of ranged attacks so this could be super handy when exploring worlds.

Lost In Limbo wrote:

Other than explicitly mental abilities like QuidEst mentions, Starfinder is much more agnostic about it's magic.

The idea is that in the future, with magic being practiced and studied on an industrial scale the barriers have really come down between the different sources of magic.

There's no longer arcane, divine, or psychic casting classes. Now you are, say, a technomancer who draws power from study and practice of formulas, or one who taps into a greater outside force to receive revelations about the underpinnings of the universe, or uses the sheer power of their mind to rewrite reality.

At least that's my understanding of it.

This is also what I get from the back ground. It seems like mystics do edge a lot closer to psionics lots of mental attacks and a lot of mind affecting type powers. But like technology you can describe basically any mechanical tech as bio tech if you want and visa versa and magic types seem to have gotten to the point where understanding of magic has come to get people closer to the "source" of the power and less needing to rely on various flavors of arcane/divine/psionics to filter it through.

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