Pathfinder Bestiary 3

Asgetrion wrote:

Wayne Reynolds wrote:

Routamaa wrote:

Are those Skeletons old friends of Valeros as that emblem on the shield and banner is the same Valeros has on his shield in his Iconic picture??

Also love those Tooth Fairies on the cover, especially the one on the foreground that looks like salivating watching those skeletons and all those teeth ready to be pulled off.

Well spotted!

Critical success on your perception roll. :)

Oh no! They're not his friends... those skeletons have killed Valeros and taken his stuff! Bastards!

Unlikely.

The shield that the skeleton troop is holding is a different shape to Valeros's shield.

There’s one in the background with a diamond shaped shield (under the arch)

But yeah, no Bestiary 4 coming... but there will be a next one, but it might be named with a more colorful name. It was addressed at GenCon as an answer to someone making a comment that bestiary 2 was hard to find results on google because the PF1 book mixed itself in the results

Is there a list anywhere of confirmed Bestiary 3 monsters since Gencon happened? Fingers crossed for Valkyrie!

As a reminder, given the discussion about this being the last Bestiary, we do at the very least know that Kingmaker is coming with its own Bestiary.

A lot of monsters that were part of Kingmaker AP were intoduced to PF2 in the second Bestiary though.

As a reminder, given the discussion about this being the last Bestiary, we do at the very least know that Kingmaker is coming with its own Bestiary.

That's not really true, there will be Kingmaker bestiaries, but they will be collections of creatures and NPCs appearing throughout the AP, collected to D&D 5E and Pathfinder 1E. There is no Kingmaker Bestiary for Pathfinder 2E.

Asgetrion wrote:

Wayne Reynolds wrote:

Routamaa wrote:

Are those Skeletons old friends of Valeros as that emblem on the shield and banner is the same Valeros has on his shield in his Iconic picture??

Also love those Tooth Fairies on the cover, especially the one on the foreground that looks like salivating watching those skeletons and all those teeth ready to be pulled off.

Well spotted!

Critical success on your perception roll. :)

Oh no! They're not his friends... those skeletons have killed Valeros and taken his stuff! Bastards!

Unlikely.

The shield that the skeleton troop is holding is a different shape to Valeros's shield.

Valeros using a shield is pretty recent. Maybe he liberated his from some forbidden grave and this is the result.

Ah, he's Golarian's Ash? :P

Wayne Reynolds wrote:

Asgetrion wrote:

Wayne Reynolds wrote:

Routamaa wrote:

Are those Skeletons old friends of Valeros as that emblem on the shield and banner is the same Valeros has on his shield in his Iconic picture??

Also love those Tooth Fairies on the cover, especially the one on the foreground that looks like salivating watching those skeletons and all those teeth ready to be pulled off.

Well spotted!

Critical success on your perception roll. :)

Oh no! They're not his friends... those skeletons have killed Valeros and taken his stuff! Bastards!

Unlikely.

The shield that the skeleton troop is holding is a different shape to Valeros's shield.

Valeros using a shield is pretty recent. Maybe he liberated his from some forbidden grave and this is the result.

I hope we get the Nightshades, they are one of my favorite category of monsters.

I hope we get the Nightshades, they are one of my favorite category of monsters.

Same. I love Nightshades as a sort of rival to the kytons and sahkil.

Sporkedup wrote:

I wonder if they'll try a new track with Bestiaries after 3. Instead of a general "pile of things" maybe they'll move to more specific thematic ties?

Really important question here.

I can't find the link, but I'm pretty sure James Jacobs said somewhere on these boards that Bestiary 3 was the 'final' bestiary for relaunch purposes. The idea was that it took 3 volumes to cover all the creatures from PF1 that they wanted to have in PF2, reorganize some categories, fix earlier blunders, clean up things dragged along unchanged from WotC OGL, etc.

The sense I got from his post was that these first couple years are getting the foundations in place, and that Bestiary 3 was the last building block for the "creatures" part of the foundation.

So I can't expect Cthulhu?

Considering his stats in P1 were “ha, you lose” I’d be fine if he didn’t get statted again.

Cthulhu vs. Rovagug. Who wins? :-)

We all lose.

Cthulhu vs. Rovagug. Who wins? :-)

Me. I get calamari.

Ed Reppert wrote:

Cthulhu vs. Rovagug. Who wins? :-)

Me. I get calamari.

I mean, if we go by Call of Cthulhu, Cthulhu ain't made of material matter.

So I guess that means you get spirit squid?

Considering his stats in P1 were “ha, you lose” I’d be fine if he didn’t get statted again.

That's been his stats in any system that he ever showed up in.

In Call of Cthulhu he simply ate a bunch of investigators each round.

You could nuke him from orbit but he'll just reform but now he's radioactive and he still simply eats a bunch of investigators each round.

Rysky wrote:

Considering his stats in P1 were “ha, you lose” I’d be fine if he didn’t get statted again.

That's been his stats in any system that he ever showed up in.

In Call of Cthulhu he simply ate a bunch of investigators each round.

You could nuke him from orbit but he'll just reform but now he's radioactive and he still simply eats a bunch of investigators each round.

Yeah not really swaying my response any.

I mean, he could lose in 1e vs mythic party ;D So again depends on when we get 2e version of "these rules allow you to face demigods"

Neigh unbeatable creatures and gods have been a part of RPGs since the beginning when they included the Tarrasque and Odin.

Granted, they aren't for everyone but a certain subset of fans (myself included) enjoy them and appreciates their inclusion.

Granted, I'll probably never use them in a game, but they are fun to look at and dream epic campaigns around them.

You can totally use the Tarrasaque and Odin and Cthulhu without giving them stats that amount to “you lose”, the same as how deities are handled.

Stat blocks make it easier to envision.

For some yeah, for others it's basically a hazard or event more than a creature.

Regardless, there's better uses of the page space.

I disagree.

I think it's a wonderful use of space.

Odraude wrote:

So if this is the final bestary, I'd love to see some of the older robots and tech stuff in here. I love my robots and lasers and it would actually fit my friend's current campaign. He's using Starfinder stats for the lasers and other tech stuff.

It's been four days, something is clearly broken. Maybe let's try again:

I HOPE FOR LOTZ OF ROBOTZ WITH LAZORS IN THIS BOOK!

*primes the claymore mine, draws the kukri*

Huh? Wait...wut? Oh...sh....! Musta fell asloop. [Adjusts plague doctor mask/apocalypse cowl. Taps distortion microphone.]

Ahem. Is this thing on? H-hmm. [Takes deep breath, puffs out chest.]

How DARE you ask for robotz and lazors!!! Don’t you know droids, lazorswords and skyships are the death knell of fantasy? Next you will want mind tricks, telekinesis and lightning bolts shooting from wizened fingertips. Or cute furry creatures capturing warriors and worshipping floating golden gods. Blasphemor!!

@Wayne: Love the cover. Great work on the helms and pole-arms. Skeleton soldiery is a favourite of mine. And yes, great weather to have for a dread siege or failed repulse.

Is there a list anywhere of confirmed Bestiary 3 monsters since Gencon happened? Fingers crossed for Valkyrie!

Here's all the ones I've found, My sources are the APG stream from Paizocon, Know Direction podcast with Logan Bonner December 17th, and GenCon ask the experts Q&A stream

Skeleton troop

Clockwork Dragon

Tooth Fairies

Imperial dragons (forest and sea were named)

Brain child

Krampus

Skull peelers

Androids

More sprites

More devils and demons

Hell knight Cavalry troop

Skull Swarm

"Demon equivalent of the lemure" possible Dretch

General clockwork enemies (spy, mage, soldier)

Skeltons expanded (Harpy and T-Rex examples)

Bobble/Bauble beast

Gliminal? Unsure on spelling

Hyakume

Stheno ("ancestry ready" - Mark Seifter)

Sakhils monster family

Agathions

Divs

Asura(s)

Enoscythe(?) Family (includes Caulborn)

Titans: Elysian, Thanatonic, Hekatonkheires, Danova(?)

Green Man

Kuchisake-onna

Peri(s)

Is Stheno like variant of medusa? .-.

Is Stheno like variant of medusa? .-.

It's an associated ancestry, yes.

--C.

I need more kaiju... *rawr*

I need more kaiju... *rawr*

I would love real stats for Kaiju

CorvusMask wrote:

Is Stheno like variant of medusa? .-.

It's an associated ancestry, yes.

--C.

The way I interpret it is that it'll look very similar to the Grippli Scout and Fetchling Scout, where it has a large page of writing with general information you would also see on an ancestry page, and you might glean some ideas to their stats. It serves more as a teaser for what's to come later when they have a book for it.

And enough information to include them as NPCs in your tables now, so that when it's an available ancestry, they're not totally out of the blue.

I expect we'll see some whiplash from the Ancestry Guide for that. Fleshwarp NPCs or androids at all aren't in most tables now.

I expect we'll see some whiplash from the Ancestry Guide for that. Fleshwarp NPCs or androids at all aren't in most tables now.

I'm planning on making some androids when the Ancestry book comes out, whether they be brand new, or NPCs that have been around already but were hiding their markings. Also allowing any players to ret-con anything if any new options fit their characters better, or they're just excited to try new options out (because I know I am!).

Sakhils monster family

Agathions

Divs

Asura(s)

Huzzah!

Jeffrey Swank wrote:

I need more kaiju... *rawr*

I would love real stats for Kaiju

We have them for the tarrasque.

Jeffrey Swank wrote:

I need more kaiju... *rawr*

I would love real stats for Kaiju

We might get some in the Fists of the Ruby Phoenix AP.

This adventure also includes lore of the monstrous kaiju that dwell in the world's darkest corners...

Note about that list (info that come from the Logan interview):
Skull Peeler are “cute dragonfly winged monkeys”. And yes, the name is more representative of the kind of monster they are.

Clockworks were developed around the same time as the ones in Agents of Edgewatch.

Troops are for orderly creatures, not mindless creatures or animals. Logan wasn’t certain, but swarms might still be better to represent a semi coherent group of large animal/monsters. Troops are made to feel like an army, not just a bigger swarm. Skeletons are an exception, because they are usually magically controlled to act like a troop.

Brain Child will be... *wild*.

The new sprites were added after they made the new sprites heritages in the LO Ancestry Guide. They realized it would be weird for players to be certain kind of sprites that don’t have a “monster” equivalent.

Very happy for Stheno, hopefully they adapt the Euryale from 1e in this so we can finally have monsters based on all three sisters!

Not sure if Krampus or Peri are what I'd have included in the last core Bestiary, but the rest of the list looks really good. Sahkils... yum yum! :D

I agree with Rysky; deities (even demigods) should not have stat blocks. Surviving an encounter with beings such as Cthulhu or Yog-Sothoth should be (in terms of game mechanics) more like a high-level hazard or a complex trap. Besides, you rarely get to use deity-level monsters anyway, so those all-too-few-and-precious Bestiary pages should IMO be reserved for "regular" monsters.

On a 100% sidenote: realized that after all of these years, we don't have cyclops based oni.

We clearly need one so hopefully we get that at some point xD

↑ One would think that that greater/dire cyclops would've been a good candidate for it...

<shrug>

More Oni and Kami in general would be nice. Also, would love a Tian specific race of Celestials. Kami kind of have the Monitor role filled imo.

I know we'll never get them in beastary 3 but just for a future book I would love if the 4 horsemen got 2e stats at some point. I also fundamentally disagree. fighting dietys/demigod lvl beings is fun! also some are not unkillable (the 4 horsemen are a perfect example as mortals have killed them before then become them!) & we already have to divine lvl beings in xolti & the tarrasque . its also confirmed titan stats in this book so. saying pcs should never be able to fight God lvl beings has already been thrown out the window as we can already do it

No one’s said you should never fight powerful beings like that (titans were under demigod status in P1 I believe), just that stat blocks that amounted to “you lose” were not a good use of space.

The Tarrasque and Cthulhu were novelty monsters like that. The T and Xotani? (I don’t know a Xolti) aren’t anywhere close to being a divine.

No one’s said you should never fight powerful beings like that (titans were under demigod status in P1 I believe), just that stat blocks that amounted to “you lose” were not a good use of space.

The Tarrasque and Cthulhu were novelty monsters like that. The T and Xotani? (I don’t know a Xolti) aren’t anywhere close to being a divine.

Still think CR 30 has good role in being "what CR 25 is to level 20 party" to mythic party. Or whatever will be (if it happens) 2e's version of "extra ordinarily powerful characters capable of challenging demigods"

Note that there is no such thing as Challenge Rating in PF2. The game uses level for monsters which is similar in concept, but not quite the same.

Note that there is no such thing as Challenge Rating in PF2. The game uses level for monsters which is similar in concept, but not quite the same.

Yeah, though in practice its same thing, except that CR never worked :p

Zaister wrote:

Note that there is no such thing as Challenge Rating in PF2. The game uses level for monsters which is similar in concept, but not quite the same.

Yeah, though in practice its same thing, except that CR never worked :p

Sort of, the key is that the level of encounter difficulty varies the amount of experience each PC 'demands' from the encounter.

In a Moderate encounter each Player Character is worth 20 EXP, or in other words, a single monster two levels lower than themselves.

In an Extreme encounter each Player Character is worth 40 EXP, or in other words, a single monster of their own level.

This is all a little different than CR, which to my understanding (and it worked like this in 5e) declares that a creature of any given CR is an equal challenge for an entire party of PCs of that level. Now this was generally inaccurate, but the assumption of Creature Level in 2e is actively that a single at-level creature is a toss up fight with a single PC, and is a very different framework.

Incidentally I think this is why creatures go to -1 but not lower, that's the lowest point PC numbers meaningfully exist for, since they're an 'equal match' for level 1 PCs.

Well anyway, if this is the final "core" bestiary, I do hope it has one level 24 creature, since realized that is currently only level that isn't covered in any of 2 previous core bestiaries :D

(if the book has rest of playtest bestiary monsters such as non mythic devastator, that means we get few more level 21-23 at least :3 )

(if the book has rest of playtest bestiary monsters such as non mythic devastator, that means we get few more level 21-23 at least :3 )

I've been meaning to go through the Playtest Bestiary myself to see what we have left from it. It'll be interesting to see what makes it and what gets held over for the future of Bestiary-adjacent products. I vote we call then Creature Compendiums. Lol

Incidentally I think this is why creatures go to -1 but not lower, that's the lowest point PC numbers meaningfully exist for, since they're an 'equal match' for level 1 PCs.

Well now I'm curious if I can design Level -2 creatures.

I almost always solo run PF2, so I could use that additional level. Technically I could use Level -3 creatures as well, but I think at that point I'd be fighting a housecat with a shotgun.