Gorbacz |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you want noble morals with your warfare, Iomedae is your grrrl. She's fantasy Erwin Rommel, chivalrous conduct, no collateral damage to civilians, treat POWs respectfully, try to mitigate the evil of war and battle as much as you can. I can see a Good person fighting under her banner.
Gorum is there just to fight with no regards to consequences. Granted, it's a step above of Szuriel and few other Evil entities, but only that.
Bagpuss |
Bagpuss wrote:Amazon is terrible about getting RPG books out. My suggestion would be to just hit your local store or B&N. You should get it soon there. If you don't want to do that, buy the PDF.Rysky wrote:Amazon actually list the "release date" as April 10th (after what they say is the release data for the GMG in March), which is very odd.(For all future inquiries)
Amazon does not make the book, and you can purchase it elsewhere, such as here from the people who do make it :3
I have never had their advertised release date be two months after the actual date, whether or not they get it late. I think that's just a date they grab automatically either from the publisher or the distributor(who presumably gets it from the publisher). I have bought RPG stuff from loads of publishers, from Amazon, and not had this problem (including from Paizo). I don't know what's going on with Paizo stuff and Amazon, but it seems worse for Paizo material then others.
I mean, obviously I can do without the book--there's non-Paizo stuff on which I can also spend money, and I will get round to God's and Magic eventually, I guess--so that I am more bemused than bothered
Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
Asgetrion |
I finally got my copy of this book a couple of weeks ago, and I have to say there are a lot of really good things in it. I love the new feats, some of them really make the most of the new action economy showcase why 2E (IMO) truly shines as the best version D&D-esque RPG so far. And the Pantheon rules rock, as do Divine Intercessions! :)
I also love the aphorisms, but I wish all the core gods would have received an equal amount of them (many only get 2). They're some of the best bits in the book, though, and this begs the question: would it have been possible to publish a web-enhancement that includes most common titles and rites of all the major religions? It would be a fantastic addition to any campaign if the GM could occasionally include names of rites and rituals (for example, "Bloodbinding" mentioned by Jason Buhlman as a common rite for Kuthites) used by the core faiths.
It is a bit disappointing that most spells in the book are not for divine spellcasters, and there are no new Golarion-specific ritual spells. I mean... isn't this supposed to be THE SOURCE of all things divine (including ritual spells) for Golarion? I see this as a wasted opportunity. I understand the page count is what it is, and it's likely that all the new ritual spells will be published as generic rituals in upcoming products. It may even be there's going to be a product called 'Magic of Golarion' or something like it coming out in a year or two. Yet it still feels underwhelming to me that quite a few of the new spells are for Bards, Druids, Sorcerers and Wizards. And speaking of upcoming products, I'd rather have, say, 3-4 thicker tomes for reference than a dozen slim-ish Age of Lost Omens books we need to flip through whenever someone needs to reference a spell, dedication, ritual, background or feat.
As for the domains, well, these are mostly good. Although in my opinion most of them would have belonged in the Core Rulebook, replacing weird domains like Truth or Confidence. Then there are some which (at least to me) just exist to justify certain deities, like Dust for all the desert deities, or Delirium for Sivanah. Vigil is just odd... it's about remembering things and people, as in "holding a vigil" (I think it's the former subdomain 'Memory'). Glyph should IMO be erased from the book, because it's a GM plot device and potentially either campaign-wrecking or totally useless in the hands of PCs. I also wonder why certain deities don't grant ANY access to domains that belong in their portfolios, such as Urgathoa with Plague or Zon-Kuthon with Sorrow -- not even as Alternate Domains. These need errata, I think, but it doesn't change the fact that in my opinion domains are a huge mess in 2E. It is surprising to me, because a pretty hefty list of domains and subdomains already existed in 1E, and I know the designers were aware of the problems how these applied to the Golarion pantheon.
It is also a bit sad there are only a couple of new domain-related feats (one for picking each deity's Alternate Domains and one for starting a splinter cult) and only one new background. Another missed opportunity, I think, but it's another sacrifice that had to be made due to including as much "fluff" (lore) as possible into a modest page count.
Art is mostly fantastic, there are some really good illustrations in the book. However, that weird decorative "double-squiggly" on the background is (IMO) both ugly and impractical, as it makes the borders of some holy symbols look smudgy. It serves no purpose and if I had been the Art Director for this book I'd have ditched it.
Michael Sayre Organized Play Developer |
11 people marked this as a favorite. |
It is a bit disappointing that most spells in the book are not for divine spellcasters [...]
It's because they're granted as deity spells by specific deities, which generally shouldn't be divine spells since gaining divine spells as deity spells doesn't really do anything for a character. If the book was full of divine spells you'd have a bunch of repeats for deity spells since it would be mostly limited to stuff from the CRB (or stuff coming up in the APG that won't be usable for a few more months).
It also makes the book a better resource for characters of all types, not just champions and clerics, as mentioned in the product description. "Whether you're a sneaky rogue asking the god of thievery for a blessing on your next heist or a valorous crusader calling the might of your patron down upon the forces of evil, faith and the forces behind it are key to every character's identity."
The Only Sheet |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
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Asgetrion |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Asgetrion wrote:It is a bit disappointing that most spells in the book are not for divine spellcasters [...]It's because they're granted as deity spells by specific deities, which generally shouldn't be divine spells since gaining divine spells as deity spells doesn't really do anything for a character. If the book was full of divine spells you'd have a bunch of repeats for deity spells since it would be mostly limited to stuff from the CRB (or stuff coming up in the APG that won't be usable for a few more months).
It also makes the book a better resource for characters of all types, not just champions and clerics, as mentioned in the product description. "Whether you're a sneaky rogue asking the god of thievery for a blessing on your next heist or a valorous crusader calling the might of your patron down upon the forces of evil, faith and the forces behind it are key to every character's identity."
Hi Michael! Sorry, I've completely missed your reply due to all that is happening around the world (and also over here) right now with COVID-19.
Here's what bothers me: none of those spells specify which deities grant them. For example, does Pharasma or Norgorber grant access to Acid Storm, Animus Mine or Iron Gut? If not, why? Nothing in terms of game mechanics (traits, specifically) make them special in any way or different from all the common spells in the Core Rulebook. As far as I know, any wizard -- whether they worship a deity or not -- could choose, say, Shattering Gem at first level.
Now, if these were uncommon or rare spells, that would be a different story. Categorizing spells by rarity is not a new phenomenon, at least in the Forgotten Realms; IIRC, there was even a pretty decent rarity table for wizard spells in Forgotten Realms Adventures. There were also a lot of deity-specific divine spells, and while most could be cast by clerics and priests of the same faith, there were also certain rare spells that had to discovered to gain access to them. For example, not all clerics of Helm knew Mace of Odo, they first had to learn it from sacred tomes or a scroll. This same effect could have been achieved with all the spells in G&M by tagging each of them as either Uncommon or Rare (and preferably also with a list of deities that grant them).
Most of the spells in G&M don't have anything particularly "divine" or "sacred/profane" about them. They aren't strongly tied to any deities. A few (e.g. Cup of Dust) have even been converted from common first edition spells, and would have (IMO) fit a lot better in the upcoming APG.
And that is why I'm confused and disappointed at the spells in this book, and see this as a wasted opportunity to publish uncommon and rare spells and rituals with strong ties to specific deities or philosophies.
Luis Loza Developer |
8 people marked this as a favorite. |
The majority of the new spells are granted by the deities who received entries in this book, that is the "other 20" and all of the deities featured in the appendix in the back. So, if you wanted a cleric that can cast anticipate peril or time beacon Shyka would probably be a good deity to worship. If you check out the spells that the appendix deities grant, you'll see the new spells scattered throughout the listings.
While you are correct that a lot of the new spells are not exactly tied to the divine or the deities in a specific manner, they are tied to a lot of the themes and concerns associated with many of the deities of Golarion. For example, time is a major focus for Shyka and other deities like Yog-Sothoth. However, the Core Rulebook was lacking in a lot of appropriate time-themed spells. We used the new spells in this book to fill in a lot of the thematic gaps we had.
In particular, that is why so many of the spells are 1st-level spells. There were lots of gaps for characters that would want spells for certain themes (earth, time, etc.) but not want to wait until higher levels to be able to use the spells they want. The same goes for deities. If a deity has an earth theme, it's more fun for a cleric to receive shockwave early on as a bonus spell than it is to have to wait until they receive earthbind or earthquake at much higher levels.
It's not as fun to be a cleric and not be able to snag all of the fun new spells from the book like a bard or a wizard can. I understand if there's some frustration with that. However, I think the importance of being able to support the themes of all of the updated deities in this book cannot be devalued. It was important to us to be able to bring as many of the deities from 1E over to 2E as fast as possible and creating all of these spells was part of that process.
If we do a follow-up to Gods & Magic, we're in a far better spot with spell support that we won't need to create as many non-divine spells, so we can provide plenty of new toys for clerics in that case. Also, I'm sure that there will be plenty of fun new divine spells coming in the APG and beyond!
Luis Loza Developer |
Eleanor Ferron Developer |
Asgetrion |
The majority of the new spells are granted by the deities who received entries in this book, that is the "other 20" and all of the deities featured in the appendix in the back. So, if you wanted a cleric that can cast anticipate peril or time beacon Shyka would probably be a good deity to worship. If you check out the spells that the appendix deities grant, you'll see the new spells scattered throughout the listings.
While you are correct that a lot of the new spells are not exactly tied to the divine or the deities in a specific manner, they are tied to a lot of the themes and concerns associated with many of the deities of Golarion. For example, time is a major focus for Shyka and other deities like Yog-Sothoth. However, the Core Rulebook was lacking in a lot of appropriate time-themed spells. We used the new spells in this book to fill in a lot of the thematic gaps we had.
In particular, that is why so many of the spells are 1st-level spells. There were lots of gaps for characters that would want spells for certain themes (earth, time, etc.) but not want to wait until higher levels to be able to use the spells they want. The same goes for deities. If a deity has an earth theme, it's more fun for a cleric to receive shockwave early on as a bonus spell than it is to have to wait until they receive earthbind or earthquake at much higher levels.
It's not as fun to be a cleric and not be able to snag all of the fun new spells from the book like a bard or a wizard can. I understand if there's some frustration with that. However, I think the importance of being able to support the themes of all of the updated deities in this book cannot be devalued. It was important to us to be able to bring as many of the deities from 1E over to 2E as fast as possible and creating all of these spells was part of that process.
If we do a follow-up to Gods & Magic, we're in a far better spot with spell support that we won't need to create as many non-divine spells, so we can provide plenty of new toys for clerics in that case. Also, I'm sure that there will be plenty of fun new divine spells coming in the APG and beyond!
Luis, thanks for your quick reply! It's funny; I'm a long-time Pathfinder and Golarion fan, yet I did not even realize the spells in G&M are linked to any themes, or that any of them are tied to specific deities. I did notice some deities grant their clerics access to certain new spells, but I didn't see any link between, for example, bards or wizards and Shyka. I also didn't realize the "Core 20" don't grant these spells to their "mundane" followers (i.e. who are not clerics or champions), if I understood your point correctly?
I think while these thematic links may be evident to designers who worked on this book, they're not to me; if my impression is that this book is more or less a collection of random feats and spells, it is probably even more hazy to GMs who are new to Pathfinder and Golarion.
If the spells have been designed to "fill in thematic gaps", it would have been vastly helpful to make those themes more transparent in the book, for example by traits and a new line under each deity to spell out which themes said deity grants access to. And a table with each theme listing spells linked to them.
Feros |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Luis Loza wrote:There could be if there is enough demand for more! Let us know how you feel about more gods and/or magic!<whispers> Buy our book.
Yeah! Then they will make a follow up and Eleanor can make another chart!
;)
Feros |
So I will eventually get this book...just waiting to get some money but I have question for those who have the book...
What is in the book for followers of Calistria?
Stuff! :)
...
OK, seriously:
Boons (When Calistria is pleased) and Curses (When she is ticked off) for the GM to interpose as appropriate.
Beyond that just a more detailed write up than in the CRB of the faith. If you have the info from PF1e, there is nothing really new here.
Jen Page Media Specialist, SmiteWorks USA (Fantasy Grounds) |
Hello everyone! This is now available for purchase from Fantasy Grounds or on Steam. Sync your FG account first to get it a discount equivalent to the PDF Price ($24.49). Happy gaming!
Pathfinder 2 Lost Omens: Gods & Magic
Publisher: Paizo Inc.
System: Pathfinder 2.0
Get it on Steam
QuidEst |
I as going through the various Domain options, looking at Divine Access possibilities for different types of Oracles and I noticed that Hanspur offers Aqueous Orb as a level 2 spell. It is normally level 3, any idea if this is deliberate or a typo?
It is a typo. PF2 plans to never add spells to lists at different levels than they would normally be.
YawarFiesta |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I find it a bit odd that the normal domains of the core deities are omitted both in the apendix and their main entries. It makes "browsing" deities unnessecairy arduous.
Paizo's editing style has a problem against redundancy, even when it would be for the benefit of the reader.
Humbly,
Yawar
vagrant-poet |
Luis Loza wrote:There could be if there is enough demand for more! Let us know how you feel about more gods and/or magic!I would like more of both!
For sure. I always feel like there needs to be a bunch of chaotic Kurgess level gods for specific interests, etc. I have no idea how to add that variety while providing compelling deities that aren't just a blob, but I'd love to see more CN gods. It's a subset that would benefit the most from variety of options.
Elfteiroh |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hello,
Given the situation with WoTC and the Remaster offerings, is this item still relevant?
I have a project I am working on that I could use this for but want to ensure I don't implement this only to find out that this will incur some sort of update or change going forward.Thanks,
DJ
There's this book that have been announced... :O
Reddit post about Divine MysteriesPathfinderWiki's page about it