Meet the Iconics: Ija

Tuesday, May 25, 2021

In Kiutu, a quiet village on the eastern coast of Terwa Lake, young children often grow up listening to tales of the ruins that are visible on an opposing shore, separated from the hamlet by only a shallow inlet. Some stories tell of draconic monsters who haunt and terrorize those who step foot beyond the threshold of the buried temple, and others of the shadowy, winged figures that come to Kiutu in the night to drag misbehaving children to the ruins; whatever the story, the folklore surrounding ancient Bloodsalt carries with it a strong culture of fear and ominousness among Kiutu’s people. Most children grow tired of hearing such tales as they grow into their adolescence, brushing them off as fantasy, though the ruins always remain taboo. But Ija and her peers always accepted that she was a peculiar child, and the young girl never truly outgrew her youthful curiosity.

From as young as 4 years, Ija exhibited an unusual wisdom among the children that age in Kiutu. Even before she was old enough to begin tutoring, Ija could spin entire imaginary universes of her own, and though she couldn’t yet speak full sentences, she would fill sketchbooks with drawings of creatures and characters from her imagination, and from the tales her parents told of the wonderful things they’d seen on their travels. Her mother, a local artist named Ataya, was ecstatic to see Ija’s knack for building worlds, and often the two would spend days drawing stories together, Ataya often drawing fantastical dragons—Ija’s favorite creature—for the toddler to color in. Together they formulated myriad characters, and Ija developed an affinity for a pink dragon her mother doodled, whom the two decided to name Tuku.

When Ija was finally old enough to journey past the sightline of the village, she would traipse with sketchbook in hand down to the nearby lakeshore, where her father often assisted biologists from across the region to set up field studies on Terwa Lake. She’d ask the scientists questions about the animals that roamed outside of the safety of Kiutu’s borders, offering a drawing of what she imagined they looked like in return.

While most of the scientists found Ija’s “endless conversational charisma” endearing, she’d often find herself getting sent by her father to fetch research materials or supplies from the village instead, and while she was sure she’d been behaving, she could never help but shake that she’d done something wrong.

Into her adolescence, Ija still found herself preoccupied with her imagination; notes she’d meant to take from her studies or her father’s scientific lectures would be covered in doodles, or she’d lose minutes of her tutors’ lectures daydreaming while looking at the Bloodsalt Ruins across the lake, envisioning Tuku swooping about in mighty clashes with the monsters that lurk there. But while her imagination was celebrated in her younger years, expectations that Ija couldn’t keep up with were slowly piled upon her as she grew older. Eventually the fond memories of days laughing and drawing with her mother and father’s colleagues felt more and more distant. As her parents, tutors, and peers pressured her to grow up, Ija buried herself deeper and deeper into her imagination, and every night found solace in envisioning Tuku drifting elegantly through the moonlit clouds, rather than dwelling on what she did (or could have done) wrong that day.

One day, on a short field trip to the Terwa River with her teacher and a few other children, Ija found herself separated from the group; she’d become fascinated by a small copse of brightly colored ferns, and in her fixation wandered off without saying a word to her group. While musing at the strange and beautiful flora around her, noting the unusual shapes of the leaves in her sketchbook, she laughed as she thought of Tuku helping her to grab flowers and leaves from far above her reach. The bright oranges, reds, and violets of the blossoms around her seemed to glow with an otherworldly light when she held them close to her face, and Ija could have spent hours there without ever losing focus. Her wild exploration ended abruptly, however, when she caught the sound of her teacher calling her name from the edge of her hearing. Realizing she had missed her lesson and fearing punishment, she shamefacedly ran to catch up with her peers.

Sketch of a dark-skinned human girl, wearing mage’s robes. She gestures to her eidolon, a dragon several feet taller than her.
art by Wayne Reynolds

As Ija crested a small rise overlooking the riverbank and regained sight of her group, she noticed her teacher and the other children’s eyes widen in looks of surprise and confusion. Ija glanced down at herself, expecting to find her clothes in embarrassing disarray or marked by a stains or tears she didn’t notice, but there was nothing any more out of place on her person than normal. She looked over her left shoulder and then her right, and instantly shared their amazement. Tuku, manifested in physical form, stood a few feet behind her, eyeing her fellow villagers with curiosity.

Ija marveled wordlessly; how could they all so clearly see her imaginary friend? How was Tuku here and not just in her idle daydreaming? Her teacher stepped forward, his eyes fixed on Ija’s forehead, where the runic medallion she’d crafted for herself years earlier hung from a simple headband. The rune was glowing, and it matched an identical symbol on Tuku’s brow.

“Ija,” her teacher asked in wonder, “how long have you been a god caller?”

She just shook her head, trying to make sense of what was going on. Had she done something wrong again?

Her teacher knelt to look her straight in the eye as he spoke. Tuku snorted defensively behind her as the kindly elder reached out for Ija, but quickly calmed as the teacher spoke:

“My grandfather was a refugee of the Worldwound, you know. He fled Sarkoris a century ago, as a child, when the demons overtook his land. He kept few of the traditions of his people when he met my grandmother and settled here in Kiutu, but he told stories of his childhood. Most memorable among them were his stories of the god callers—those among the Sarkorians who could summon a powerful ally from beyond our reality to aid and guide the people in times of trouble. The Sarkorians called these beings gods, but others call them eidolons, and don’t worship them as my grandfather’s people did. It appears that you are a god caller, too, Ija, and that dragon—”

“Tuku,” she said without thinking.

“—Tuku, as you say, is your eidolon,” her teacher explained. “Just as you and Tuku share a connection, symbolized in the glowing rune upon both your bodies, so too did the holy runes of the Sarkorian god callers shine when the gods were among their people.”

Ija turned to look at her eidolon inquisitively. Tuku returned the look and tilted his head playfully, like a pet dog expecting its owner to throw a stick. Who was this strange creature, who wasn’t quite as imaginary as she’s always thought? She felt as though she already knew him so well. She’d created him as a toddler, after all—or had she?

A small group of researchers working a short distance down the riverbank had made their way up to where Ija and her eidolon now stood. Her father was among them. None of them appeared scared of Tuku, or of her glowing rune. They were simply curious, interested in a new occurrence to document in their findings. Her father, however, looked proud and overjoyed at his daughter’s newfound calling.

Her teacher, noticing the confusion in Ija’s face, offered words of reassurance. “Yes, there is much for you to learn about yourself, Ija. Perhaps you struggled so much to walk the path set before you because you had a different path you were meant to walk, shoulder to shoulder with Tuku here. We can’t teach you these things, your parents and I. You must learn about Tuku and your bond with him on your own, but don’t worry—we will help you how we can, and I am sure Tuku will guide you in his own way as well.” The teacher paused momentarily with thought. “Do not be afraid, young one; the path you walk may be yours alone, but you are never truly alone on your journey.”

Over the coming weeks and months, Ija and Tuku traveled farther from Kiutu than she’d ever gone before, to Nantambu where the libraries of the Magambya promised answers to her calling (if she could focus enough to read them). But unlike the lessons of her youth, Ija found the questions she had sufficient motivation to learn all on her own. And since she learned better by doing than from reading or listening to a lecture, the fact that she could now explore the limits of her power and the strange bond she shared with her dear Tuku meant she never lacked the will to get up and approach the day’s challenges together.

Ija has met many fellow knowledge seekers in her travels, and she makes a loyal, if mischievous, companion. Tuku tends to be aloof and curmudgeonly when interacting with anyone other than Ija, though he eventually warms to those who clearly don’t mean his summoner any harm. Together, Ija and Tuku plan to one day visit the Sarkoris Scar, to learn what they can of their connection from the god callers repopulating the land now that the Worldwound is closed. Until then, however, Ija and Tuku go where their fancy takes them and return often to Kiutu to share drawings and verbal tales of their adventures with her family and friends.

Lu Pellazar
Senior Editor

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1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:
thejeff wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:

I love how some folks are surprised about scientists and biologists when the Mwangi Expanse is home to one if not *the* premier academy in all of Golarion.

Makes sense to me, though the terminology is a bit suprising.

"Scientist" isn't a word commonly associated with academies of Magic.

Arcane magic is extremely similar to science : reasoned study (Mental) of the physical world (Material).

Also the root word of science is the Latin Scio (I know). Also pretty appropriate for Arcane magic.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


I like the eidolon.


UnArcaneElection wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
thejeff wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:

I love how some folks are surprised about scientists and biologists when the Mwangi Expanse is home to one if not *the* premier academy in all of Golarion.

Makes sense to me, though the terminology is a bit suprising.

"Scientist" isn't a word commonly associated with academies of Magic.

Arcane magic is extremely similar to science : reasoned study (Mental) of the physical world (Material).

Also the root word of science is the Latin Scio (I know). Also pretty appropriate for Arcane magic.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Numerian technology is indistinguishable from magic?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Laclale♪ wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
thejeff wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:

I love how some folks are surprised about scientists and biologists when the Mwangi Expanse is home to one if not *the* premier academy in all of Golarion.

Makes sense to me, though the terminology is a bit suprising.

"Scientist" isn't a word commonly associated with academies of Magic.

Arcane magic is extremely similar to science : reasoned study (Mental) of the physical world (Material).

Also the root word of science is the Latin Scio (I know). Also pretty appropriate for Arcane magic.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Numerian technology is indistinguishable from magic?

According to the Inner Sea World Guide? Yes. They compare a gun that fires laser beams to a wand of scorching ray for example. 1ed Inner Sea World Guide pg 257 for reference

Also, I hadn't seen that tid bit in a while. Always nice when someone asks a question and it makes me dive into it. Thanks!


Maybe, but Golarion also has detect magic and other such spells, which would fairly reliably be able to discern the difference between advanced tech and magic.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
SOLDIER-1st wrote:
Maybe, but Golarion also has detect magic and other such spells, which would fairly reliably be able to discern the difference between advanced tech and magic.

True True and in the game impact area it even describes players possibly using detect magic and spell craft to sus out the aspects of the technology. Just because it IS technology doesn't mean arcane means of identification is useless. It could definitely be used to identify the difference between tech and magic, but I like that it can also be a possible means of identifying the aspects of the tech too.

Dark Archive

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I've read this multiple times now and love it more each time. The art in full color is extraordinary in my opinion and both Ija and Tuku are so cute yet oddly I can see the pair being a little intimidating.

I also love the details about learning styles and how Ija just couldn't cut it using the traditional classroom setting. That does a great job to illustrate both real life and the difference between Intelligence based learning and Charisma based learning mechanics in my opinion.

I can't wait for the class to release (my favorite fantasy trope is Summoner) and only hope that it wasn't made too "simple" in order to attract younger players to it at the cost of interesting mechanics. That said, I believe the Kineticist iconic was a child, and that was one of the most complicated P1 classes (and very fun), so I'm not overly concerned.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I like the story and the background.

Are shorter people more inclined to summoning? Or was it just random that the previous iconic was replaced with a human(?) child?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I feel like “Scientist” is describing a background, not a class.

I would be delighted to be wrong though. I enjoyed the inventor playtest and like investigators, so something combining some of those themes might be interesting.

Liberty's Edge

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So, um, the art is supposed to be from her childhood and doesn't represent her as an adult, or is Ija just a particularly petite adult? Is there going to be a different Summoner pregen character made to replace this iconic for society play or will players need to build up from scratch and own the book to play one?

The text tells a story of childhood but goes onto talking about "lessons of youth" as if that phase/age has passed so I'm a bit confused as well, especially if they plan on releasing pregen versions of Ija, TTRPGs are NOT anywhere CLOSE to the realm of pokemon so the whole pre-pubescent/adolescent hero trope honestly strikes me as rather gross.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:

So, um, the art is supposed to be from her childhood and doesn't represent her as an adult, or is Ija just a particularly petite adult? Is there going to be a different Summoner pregen character made to replace this iconic for society play or will players need to build up from scratch and own the book to play one?

The text tells a story of childhood but goes onto talking about "lessons of youth" as if that phase/age has passed so I'm a bit confused as well, especially if they plan on releasing pregen versions of Ija, TTRPGs are NOT anywhere CLOSE to the realm of pokemon so the whole pre-pubescent/adolescent hero trope honestly strikes me as rather gross.

Check out Wardlings and Reapers kid heroes. They are out there and it makes it accessible to kids.

I play with my kids, 8/14 and 18 and I personally got into DnD when I was 12.

Having the options of child hero iconics is sorta cool from my perspective.

Also, this is just an iconic, nothing says that she needs to be used on a campaign, and nothing stops us from making adult versions of Summoners too, or.... just use the iconic stats and change the age and use a different mini.

It's only gross if people use it in ways that they shouldn't. I agree throwing kids into horrific combat isn't ideal, but I know my 8 year old will love having a summoner, as a child or adult character it won't matter. They are already asking me if they can have the dragon :D

Dark Archive

Themetricsystem wrote:

So, um, the art is supposed to be from her childhood and doesn't represent her as an adult, or is Ija just a particularly petite adult? Is there going to be a different Summoner pregen character made to replace this iconic for society play or will players need to build up from scratch and own the book to play one?

The text tells a story of childhood but goes onto talking about "lessons of youth" as if that phase/age has passed so I'm a bit confused as well, especially if they plan on releasing pregen versions of Ija, TTRPGs are NOT anywhere CLOSE to the realm of pokemon so the whole pre-pubescent/adolescent hero trope honestly strikes me as rather gross.

While I share your concern and your question, I think she is still in her childhood. It isn't unheard of for a child iconic with Pathfinder. Yoon is still clearly a child and he is the PF1e Kineticist iconic. He was also playable in PFS as a pregen as well. I don't know how old he is exactly, but he looks around 10ish.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I could have sworn that Yoon was also a girl.

Dark Archive

David knott 242 wrote:


I could have sworn that Yoon was also a girl.

You're right, looks like she was an 8 year old girl for her pregen iconic.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Yoon is female and a child, yes.

Grand Archive

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The young iconics are an exception to the "no child character" in PFS. Same for an iconic with a non-common ancestry. You don't need the Tengu boon to play the oracle iconic.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I like the story and the background.

Are shorter people more inclined to summoning? Or was it just random that the previous iconic was replaced with a human(?) child?

You'll notice that we tend to use Small or small-ish characters for "pet" classes whose companions are larger than Small. This is because getting two Medium creatures onto a single character illustration is really cramped and it makes ordering art of them doing stuff in the world for later books harder. Since it's cooler to have a big eidolon than a big person and a little eidolon, we went with Small characters for both editions' iconics. Also, the idea of a child summoner whose eidolon is her imaginary friend was just too good to pass up.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

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Themetricsystem wrote:

The text tells a story of childhood but goes onto talking about "lessons of youth" as if that phase/age has passed so I'm a bit confused as well, especially if they plan on releasing pregen versions of Ija, TTRPGs are NOT anywhere CLOSE to the realm of pokemon so the whole pre-pubescent/adolescent hero trope honestly strikes me as rather gross.

I don't know that we've nailed down exactly how old Ija is, but she's older than Yoon was. She's more a tween than a child. Ija's growth in this story is from child to adolescent, but no, she's not yet an adult by any stretch.

Personally, I know that it was around age 11 that I started to really feel the conflict between wanting to live in my imagination and growing up, and that's sort of what her conflict is in this story. She has to stop playing games and become a young adult, and she finds a way to do that while still remaining connected to the creativity and escape her drawings and fantasies allow her.

If it bothers you to play a child at the table, you can simply say she's 18 or whatever age she magically becomes appropriate to play. Her statistics aren't really affected by how old she's illustrated or described to be in canon.

Editor

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AnimatedPaper wrote:
I feel like “Scientist” is describing a background, not a class.

Yes, I was trying to drum up images of academics that come to Terwa Lake, most likely to study the fauna (or maybe the ruins). =) Ija’s father Is an admin/escort of some kind that aids expedition groups in setting up camp near Kiutu, since it’s in a central location to a few points of interest.


L Pellazar wrote:
AnimatedPaper wrote:
I feel like “Scientist” is describing a background, not a class.
Yes, I was trying to drum up images of academics that come to Terwa Lake, most likely to study the fauna (or maybe the ruins). =) Ija’s father Is an admin/escort of some kind that aids expedition groups in setting up camp near Kiutu, since it’s in a central location to a few points of interest.

With what you're envisioning, would "Naturalist" work here as an alternative?


^By an amazing coincidence, I was thinking yesterday about a Naturalist archetype of Pathfinder 1st Edition Summoner that would be Intelligence-based (or maybe Wisdom-based), 6/9 prepared casting, have Summon Nature's Ally (instead of Summon Monster) as the major Spell-Like Ability, have an Animal Companion (which, however, could still gain Evolutions), and have a lot of skills, including both those for survival in the wild and the ability to get along in society. A 1st Edition alternative would be a Hunter archetype.

For 2nd Edition, this is a harder concept to implement, since 2nd Edition doesn't have 6/9 (or 7/10) casters. Maybe do it as a non-multiclass archetype to enable it to be added onto any chassis?


^ Interesting. I wasn't aware that the word 'naturalist' was used as a game term in Pathfinder 1E...

My query was based on the first (& third) meaning of the word from here:
Naturalist


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I feel EXTREMELY happy that there's an Iconic with very clear signs of ADHD in her youth (Even if it wasn't intentional in writing!). It feels heartwarming of a story being told that an extremely active imagination can spawn a whole realm of wonders from it, even if the academic side of the brain struggles to keep up a bit.

Thanks for writing a story that I can empathise to and relate so well with! I love this so much!!


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Mark Moreland wrote:
If it bothers you to play a child at the table, you can simply say she's 18 or whatever age she magically becomes appropriate to play.

I dislike the subtext that you think there's some sort of magic number players are looking for.

PFS has set a rule that characters have to be young adults. I don't know first hand why it exists (i.e., past incidents that necessitated the rule), but I can guess why. Nobody has a fun time when the table debates the exact numerical age when a girl becomes a woman ... no matter what number they come up with.

Unlike a pre-adult character made for an AP (where there may be a Session 0 and a trusted GM to mediate disputes), in PFS the iconics will be played by strangers with other strangers at the table, and some of those players will unfortunately be That Guy.

Silver Crusade

14 people marked this as a favorite.
Watery Soup wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
If it bothers you to play a child at the table, you can simply say she's 18 or whatever age she magically becomes appropriate to play.

I dislike the subtext that you think there's some sort of magic number players are looking for.

PFS has set a rule that characters have to be young adults. I don't know first hand why it exists (i.e., past incidents that necessitated the rule), but I can guess why. Nobody has a fun time when the table debates the exact numerical age when a girl becomes a woman ... no matter what number they come up with.

Unlike a pre-adult character made for an AP (where there may be a Session 0 and a trusted GM to mediate disputes), in PFS the iconics will be played by strangers with other strangers at the table, and some of those players will unfortunately be That Guy.

And that’s where the GM steps in and kicks out That Guy for being a creep and/or jackass.


7 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Watery Soup wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
If it bothers you to play a child at the table, you can simply say she's 18 or whatever age she magically becomes appropriate to play.

I dislike the subtext that you think there's some sort of magic number players are looking for.

PFS has set a rule that characters have to be young adults. I don't know first hand why it exists (i.e., past incidents that necessitated the rule), but I can guess why. Nobody has a fun time when the table debates the exact numerical age when a girl becomes a woman ... no matter what number they come up with.

Unlike a pre-adult character made for an AP (where there may be a Session 0 and a trusted GM to mediate disputes), in PFS the iconics will be played by strangers with other strangers at the table, and some of those players will unfortunately be That Guy.

And that’s where the GM steps in and kicks out That Guy for being a creep and/or jackass.

Agreed. The existence of awful people shouldn't eradicate the possibility of child heroes existing in fiction. Now I don't want Golarion to become a world full of Nick Jr. heroes but a handful of young adventurers shouldn't be an impossibility either.


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Love it!
The fact that she's a child, and her demeanour all look fantastic !
Can't wait to play her :3


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Watery Soup wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
If it bothers you to play a child at the table, you can simply say she's 18 or whatever age she magically becomes appropriate to play.

I dislike the subtext that you think there's some sort of magic number players are looking for.

PFS has set a rule that characters have to be young adults. I don't know first hand why it exists (i.e., past incidents that necessitated the rule), but I can guess why. Nobody has a fun time when the table debates the exact numerical age when a girl becomes a woman ... no matter what number they come up with.

Unlike a pre-adult character made for an AP (where there may be a Session 0 and a trusted GM to mediate disputes), in PFS the iconics will be played by strangers with other strangers at the table, and some of those players will unfortunately be That Guy.

And that’s where the GM steps in and kicks out That Guy for being a creep and/or jackass.

double agree, that guy is that guy regardless of what is or isn't allowed.


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So ... a child.

A child whose going to kill, maim and murder monsters for a living.
It matters not how cute/nice/good aligned she is, the core of the game revolve around killing monsters and taking their stuff.

I'm not sure if i'm ok with a little girl looking around 10 blasting highwaymen and goblins to pieces with magic.

I know Golarion is a rough world. And i've already complained once or twice how i was not a fan of how things were toned down in PF2.

But ... yeah, no, not a fan of the 10 years old loli killing people/monsters with an innocent smile on her face. Not to mention it would be very creepy to have her in the more horror oriented modules/AP (Rise of the runelord, book 3, Graul farm segment. Yeah, have nice nightmares too, no need to thank me).

Silver Crusade

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“Think of the children!”

Also: “calls said child a ‘loli’.”

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I'll just say that I played lot of characters that never killed a living creature (or even never dealt lethal damage).
But yeah. Back to the topic, I love her story, and can't wait to get to know this dragon more through all the art they will appear in!


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

An adventure doesn't mean you go looking for it, it is clear that Ija's personal story is more about exploration, about learning, and discovery. She is not hear to slay monsters, but the world is dangerous and Tuku will protect her. How many adventures are people forced into situations while traveling, or at a festival.

There are countless tales in young adult fiction in which youth are put into danger, and as someone who grew up on it, kids love that stuff. They dream about going on adventures. I get it, it might not be for you. But for the children it can offer escapism.

Dataphiles

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UnArcaneElection wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
thejeff wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:

I love how some folks are surprised about scientists and biologists when the Mwangi Expanse is home to one if not *the* premier academy in all of Golarion.

Makes sense to me, though the terminology is a bit suprising.

"Scientist" isn't a word commonly associated with academies of Magic.

Arcane magic is extremely similar to science : reasoned study (Mental) of the physical world (Material).

Also the root word of science is the Latin Scio (I know). Also pretty appropriate for Arcane magic.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Any sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from SCIENCE!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Raian the Archiver wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
thejeff wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:

I love how some folks are surprised about scientists and biologists when the Mwangi Expanse is home to one if not *the* premier academy in all of Golarion.

Makes sense to me, though the terminology is a bit suprising.

"Scientist" isn't a word commonly associated with academies of Magic.

Arcane magic is extremely similar to science : reasoned study (Mental) of the physical world (Material).

Also the root word of science is the Latin Scio (I know). Also pretty appropriate for Arcane magic.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Any sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from SCIENCE!

Here here!


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Watery Soup wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
If it bothers you to play a child at the table, you can simply say she's 18 or whatever age she magically becomes appropriate to play.

I dislike the subtext that you think there's some sort of magic number players are looking for.

PFS has set a rule that characters have to be young adults. I don't know first hand why it exists (i.e., past incidents that necessitated the rule), but I can guess why. Nobody has a fun time when the table debates the exact numerical age when a girl becomes a woman ... no matter what number they come up with.

Unlike a pre-adult character made for an AP (where there may be a Session 0 and a trusted GM to mediate disputes), in PFS the iconics will be played by strangers with other strangers at the table, and some of those players will unfortunately be That Guy.

And that’s where the GM steps in and kicks out That Guy for being a creep and/or jackass.

That's fine. Let's lobby to drop the "young adult" rule in PFS so that everyone can play children responsibly, not just those who play the iconics.

pixierose wrote:
There are countless tales in young adult fiction in which youth are put into danger, and as someone who grew up on it, kids love that stuff. They dream about going on adventures. I get it, it might not be for you. But for the children it can offer escapism.

I don't disagree with any of that. But PFS has additional rules because of public recruiting. The games are often played in public spaces, and rules beyond basic gaming rules exist.

It's one of the reasons why Paizo doesn't sanction all the material they publish - some things that are totally appropriate for RPGs in general are not appropriate for PFS.

The "young adult" rule exists in PFS, not Pathfinder.


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I may be wrong since I don't know the rules for PFS, but I guess that even if you take a pregen, you are not bound by its age or other non-mechanically-relevant chracteristics.
So, being a fictional character, if you aren't comfortable about the age she is portrayed at, I don't think there's anything that stops you from adjusting it. You are playing Ija, just a few years later.


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Megistone wrote:

I may be wrong since I don't know the rules for PFS, but I guess that even if you take a pregen, you are not bound by its age or other non-mechanically-relevant chracteristics.

So, being a fictional character, if you aren't comfortable about the age she is portrayed at, I don't think there's anything that stops you from adjusting it. You are playing Ija, just a few years later.

Correct, if I am not comfortable playing Ija at a certain age, I can play her at a different age. But if I am not comfortable with someone else playing Ija at a certain age, I rely on PFS rules to mediate.

I'm not even sure that a PFS GM is allowed to boot That Guy from a publicly recruited game.


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meumeujeu wrote:

So ... a child.

A child whose going to kill, maim and murder monsters for a living.
It matters not how cute/nice/good aligned she is, the core of the game revolve around killing monsters and taking their stuff.

I'm not sure if i'm ok with a little girl looking around 10 blasting highwaymen and goblins to pieces with magic.

I know Golarion is a rough world. And i've already complained once or twice how i was not a fan of how things were toned down in PF2.

But ... yeah, no, not a fan of the 10 years old loli killing people/monsters with an innocent smile on her face. Not to mention it would be very creepy to have her in the more horror oriented modules/AP (Rise of the runelord, book 3, Graul farm segment. Yeah, have nice nightmares too, no need to thank me).

So... Toph from ATLA.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Megistone wrote:

I may be wrong since I don't know the rules for PFS, but I guess that even if you take a pregen, you are not bound by its age or other non-mechanically-relevant chracteristics.

So, being a fictional character, if you aren't comfortable about the age she is portrayed at, I don't think there's anything that stops you from adjusting it. You are playing Ija, just a few years later.

I have had more than one GM and Venture Captain tell me that I could not alter a character's flavor, or a given rule mechanic's flavor. I was told repeatedly that it was expressly forbidden, though the reasons given for that answer varied.

I was playing Yoon at the time, but didn't want to play a kid, so asked if he could be a female little person instead, a fiery dragon-themed witch.

Later, I rolled up a unique character, a fiery dragon-themed witch, little-person, and female pyrokineticist with identical stats to Yoon. That character was rejected too because you can't play Small humans, even though I had just done exactly that for several games with one of the freaking iconics!

Later, while playing a ranger, I was similarly rejected when I asked to have two themed dog companions, Gristle (the workhorse) and Fat (the good-for-nothing), where one so lazy and useless that he existed only as background flavor that never did anything (since you were only permitted one companion at the time). I figured it would be fine, but several GMs said no, citing that it changes the narrative since enemies would realistically not ignore the presence of a second dog, even if he was just a fly on the wall.

I don't really play much PFS anymore, and this was a big reason why. Restricting imagination in a game of imagination just isn't my cup of tea.


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I started playing D&D when I was 7, being a hero and taking out monsters. The idea that I was too young to do so sorta feels like toxic gatekeeper sorta mentality, even if it's coming from a good place it sounds overprotective and stiffling. Being able to have a character that has agency in their world can be a huge thing for a kid who has none, especially when you have a lot of negative things in your life.

Love this background, I just wish it fleshed out how the Eidolon thinks and interacts with others a bit more. Can't wait to get bits of her interacting with other iconics.


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OrochiFuror wrote:
I started playing D&D when I was 7, being a hero and taking out monsters. The idea that I was too young to do so sorta feels like toxic gatekeeper sorta mentality, even if it's coming from a good place it sounds overprotective and stiffling. Being able to have a character that has agency in their world can be a huge thing for a kid who has none, especially when you have a lot of negative things in your life.

The PFS "young adult" rule has nothing to do with children roleplaying children. It's not even about adults in general roleplaying children. It's about a certain subset of adults roleplaying children - a certain subset that, per other PFS rules, the GM has limited control over.

Ravingdork wrote:
I don't really play much PFS anymore, and this was a big reason why. Restricting imagination in a game of imagination just isn't my cup of tea.

PFS rules definitely gate-keep and limit imagination - "no evil characters" being the obvious parallel. Whether that rule is appropriate or inappropriate, the simple fact of the matter is that the rule exists, and by publishing an iconic that breaks that rule, it's creating a self-inconsistency. Most adults can play evil characters responsibly; the rule exists because some cannot. Most adults can play child characters responsibly; the rule exists because some cannot.

If it's not that big of a deal, that's no problem - just lift the PFS young adult rule. Or modify it. If it's a problem, then just declare Ija's age for PFS. But definitely don't trust 7 strangers to come up with a good resolution on the fly - that's a recipe for disaster.


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Ravingdork wrote:


I don't really play much PFS anymore, and this was a big reason why. Restricting imagination in a game of imagination just isn't my cup of tea.

Restricting players to one companion of any sort is more of a time factor than an in game issue. I think it is reasonable. I discourage companions in large groups just so I spend time reasonably with each player. I encourage them in small groups for luck stabilisation.

But yeah you would hope people were comfortable enough to allow you to have the character options that you wanted.

Liberty's Edge

I find it odd to expect GMs will of course trust complete strangers to play with a level of seriousness and responsibility one can be often hard-pressed to find even with old friends.


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Ravingdork wrote:

{. . .} That character was rejected too because you can't play Small humans, even though I had just done exactly that for several games with one of the freaking iconics!

{. . .}

I wonder what would happen if an actual adult Small Human(*) on Earth tried to get a seat at a PFS table.

(*)While these are very rare, I know from personal observation (as well as having read of them) that they do exist. (And that isn't even counting the former population of Flores.)

Silver Crusade

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The Raven Black wrote:
I find it odd to expect GMs will of course trust complete strangers to play with a level of seriousness and responsibility one can be often hard-pressed to find even with old friends.

"Trust" isn't the right word, being complete strangers you're expected to be on your best behavior.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Rysky wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
I find it odd to expect GMs will of course trust complete strangers to play with a level of seriousness and responsibility one can be often hard-pressed to find even with old friends.
"Trust" isn't the right word, being complete strangers you're expected to be on your best behavior.

Indeed. I find it's old friends who are most likely to take advantage of their GMs.

I certainly get FAR more respect from strangers in Society play or in new groups than I do at our own long-time, in-person tables.

Lantern Lodge

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Yoshua wrote:
So.... how many more iconics before we get a new set of iconics evolved minis? My daughter would love to play this Summoner

Apparently none more.

Those are the computer renders, don't expect them to look that good.

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