Jeremy Packer's page

Safe travels to you both. We will keep things going.

To everyone, sorry for the delay. Work was a grind the last two days.

Adding my late opinion here, but I have felt conflicted on paid games. Seeing that Paizo is planning on throwing official endorsement of them is slightly troubling to me but as mentioned earlier, by a fellow "old" person, it's their business and their decision.

When I first noticed Paid threads, I was afraid they would take over but that really hasn't happened (in my opinion). Personally, I would never pay a GM to run a game but I am lucky to have a pretty good circle of friends to play with. There is a decent Organized Play community both on the forums and in person near me, so I have options. Some others do not and perhaps this is a solution for them.

I do think one positive of Paid GMs is that it allows people who are great GMs (subjective, I know) to support themselves by doing something they love and for the community to support. I am glad Paizo welcomes them as part of the community, but welcoming and endorse are two very different things. Providing them space and defending their right to participate in the community free from harassment is a good thing.

What is not a good thing is if the product swings to focusing on servicing the paid GMs, or if Paizo begins to model their business towards taking their cut of it. This is what I truly fear this could mean. I acknowledge Paizo is a business first, and I will stand by that. They are free to do what they want with their products, but if the trends leans into paid GMing and pushing the community to pay to play the games, then I will regrettably have to say goodbye to their product lines and move on to another game community.

One more thought on this, regrettably, long post. While I no longer actively participate in the Organized Play system, I feel that it would be a massive failure and an actual barrier to the community for Paizo and their Organized Play to endorse monetary pay to GMs for participation in Organized Play. Individual stores taking minor table fees and even sharing store credit to GMs to encourage patronage is one thing, but for Paizo to actually endorse charging players to pay GMs directly for Society Play games would be a horrible idea and a massive failure on the part of Paizo. That would signal a shift where paying to play this game is the norm, and possibly a step to far for myself.

OK, so just a quick heads up. I will be travelling soon so, after Wednesday my access will be spotty at best and I won't be returning until July 6th. So, we should likely hit pause on it come Thursday morning (EST) and probably not resume until Monday the 7th.

Until then, I plan to try to wrap things up with Sara if we can. If we can't I will just commit to rereading things and get back into place as quickly as I can. Thanks.

A few quick notes on how I intend to run combat. Most of these are in order to speed things up.

1. I will be rolling initiative at the beginning of combats.
2. I am not exactly using block initiative, but I do welcome you to post actions as you are able to regardless of actual initiative order within certain groups. I will apply my best attempt to interpret the actions. In the event there is a conflict I will default to the actual initiative order and I assure you that in the event an action becomes invalid, I will ask for an alternative. The intention is to speed things up, not invalidate someone’s turn.
3. In terms of Knowledge checks, I welcome each player to make one (1) Knowledge check each turn if they wish. I am providing the results as spoilers and I will make my best effort to provide the more useful information. Again, this is to speed things up, not to add challenge or frustration.
4. I am going to try to make some tokens for the group, using the art some of you have loaded in various places. For now though the default ones are on the map.

As always, I welcome feedback. If something isn’t working out we can certainly modify things or even scrap it. Thanks.

Hey guys. I will try to post this weekend if possible, but it is my wife's birthday and we have two parties basically, and I have to play host for both of them. If I get the chance I will respond, but it may have to wait. Enjoy the weekend.

Hey guys, just a heads up, I am unlikely to post tomorrow and possibly not until late Tuesday. I will try if I can and I will try to post more tonight if needed.

In addition, I am working on a Treasure Google sheet. I have one that I modified recently based on one I saw else where, but I need to test it a little more if possible. We will see.

”I can’t thank you enough.” Kurst says as he steels himself for the tasks he will now need to handle. He carries the weight of his obligation well, but soon the exhaustion will likely begin to show soon. ”If you need me, please look for me at the Longhouse. If I am not there, leave a note and I will get it shortly enough. Now I must return to my father and see that he is well. Thank you.”

As Kurst turns to leave he looks to Vethorm. ”My friend, please do me one more favor.” Kurst draws out a hopeknife from his belt and hands it to Vethorm. ”This is Rodrik’s hopeknife. I don’t know if it will help find the truth, but it’s best you have it just in case. As is tradition, the knife should be placed with him at his memorial, so please keep it safe.”

Looks like Robin is heading to Cham. Purg and Vethorm are heading to Brinya. Where would Hilde, Ranhild, and Wild like to go? Kurst has not yet left if anyone had further questions for him.

In addition, I will be adding a detail to the campaign page with the “leads” you are following, to help keep track of the investigation. This will likely link to Roll20, so if there are notes you will to add you should be able to. I should have this set up tonight.

Vethorm of Trunau wrote:

Just a note, GM, you're adding an extra "R" in Vethorm's name. :P

And now he's calling you Vethrom. If this is a bit, I don't get it, but it sure looks like it is supposed to be Vethorm.

I assure you this was not a bit, thought the goblin in me wants to make it one now. It is a simple run of the mill typo. Or so says the embarrassed GM trying to cover himself.

And on that note though, I need to mention that I likely won't post in full until later tonight due to spending the day and evening with family. I wish everyone else a great day. Thanks.

Jubilation fills the spring-evening air in the normally staid town of Trunau, for it is the twelfth birthday of the Chief Defender’s youngest daughter, Ruby, and the townsfolk have been preparing all day for the ceremony and festivities to follow. A throng of spectators has amassed at the town Commons; the buzz of the crowd subsides as the weathered town leader, Halgra of the Blackened Blades, takes the stage and begins to speak.

“Thank you all for joining us this night. I take immense pride in my responsibility as Chief Defender, especially when it comes to the honor of the hopeknife ceremony. It is always a great privilege to bequeath Trunauan youths their hopeknives as they come of age.” Halgra stops speaking long enough to open an ornamental case and retrieve a slender, ornately decorated dagger hanging from a silver chain. “But tonight is a special occasion, for the recipient of this hopeknife is none other than my youngest daughter.” Once again, Halgra pauses, but this time she turns to talk to the child beside her.

“Ruby, by the traditions of our town, you have come of age. This hopeknife represents your responsibilities as an adult and defender of Trunau. You must be willing to use it on yourself, your fellow Trunauans, and your family—even me, should it come to that. It will be a far quicker death than that which the orcs will offer, and providing it is your duty. Do you swear to guard Trunau from all comers, and to use your hopeknife only for its intended purpose?” Ruby—dusky skinned, black haired, and painfully shy—nods her head in response to her mother’s question.

“If the orcs come, and there is no other option, this is where you cut—here, here, and here.” Halgra demonstrates which arteries to sever while Ruby watches. When she is finished, Halgra sheathes the hopeknife and places the necklace around Ruby’s neck before turning back to address the crowd.

“Tonight, Ruby becomes a full member of our community! Let us welcome her, and celebrate her passage into adulthood! Trunau forever!” The crowd echoes Halgra’s last words in unison, signaling the end of the ceremony.

Once Halgra has finished her speech, the townsfolk waste no time transitioning to the ceremony’s more lighthearted festivities. Games and food are the highlights and through the night Ruby is to be center stage. Rodrik and Kurst Grath take on the crowd but they manage to make everything about Ruby and the crowd cheers all the louder.

”Tradition holds that the first event of the night is the tug-of war.” Rodrik shouts to the crowd. ”It will be the honor of the lowly members of the militia to take on Ruby and her chosen allies in a show of strength.” As the twin brothers motion towards each other, the crowd takes the cue and they boo loudly.

Kurst smiles at his brother and feigns being offended. ”Dear Rodrik, I think the crowd no longer favors you. Perhaps they can help her choose who will serve with her.” Rodrik takes Ruby’s hand and leads her to the people so she can pick her fellow competitors. The young girl excitedly looks over the shouting crowd, laughing and trying to decide on who to ask for help.

After a few moments she catches sight of a few people she has often seen around. She points towards a sharp-eyed goblin first. ”Purg! I want Purg.” Shouts and Rodrik motions for the goblin to come to the front. Ruby then spots a fiery gnome. ”And Wild! He’s stronger than anyone.”. Rodrik motions again but is now having trouble keeping up with Ruby who has run up to Agrit Staginsdar and her wife Sara.

”Miss Agrit,” Ruby politely asks the dwarven wizard. ”Dwarfs are strong right? Would you want to help?” The Councilor smiles and goes to step forward, but then thinks better of it. ”Little Ruby, it would be unfair for a councilor to take sides. You are right to ask for dwarves. I know of two new comers to town who may be willing to help.” Agrit points to a dwarven priestess in the crowd as well as female caravan guard. Rodrik approaches the two dwarven women and asks them to come to the front.

”Anyone else, Ruby?” Rodrik asks to the further cheers from the crowd. While Ruby and Rodrik handle her choices, Kurst quietly goes around to some of the older children to enlist their help. After a few join up with him Kurst approaches his friend Verthorm. ”What do you say Verthorm? Want to help make this a fun event? You remember what it was like for you.” He turns back to the rope being laid out but then adds. ”Plus, we don’t want Rodrik to have all the fun do we?”

Ruby is still thinking things over as the two groups of competitors gather together and Rodrik looks up. He makes an exaggerated counting motion at the number of people and looks back at Ruby. ”It looks like you might need one more, who…” Before he can finish asking she shouts out. ”Robin! Robin can you help out?”

Ruby comes bounding over to her chosen team mates. She smiles at the three people she knows already and then turns to the two dwarven women. ”I’m Ruby. These are Purg, Wild, and Robin. Are we ready to bear these stuffy militia men?”

Just chiming in here. I am glad to see people working on developing things. I expect to be ready to start with the game itself tomorrow evening after work. I like what I am reading though, and while I may not be commenting here much or responding to specific statements, I am making note to see about working it in if the chance comes up.

To begin, thank you for joining the Giantslayer AP. I am hoping this will be a fun, relatively well-paced, and exciting game experience for everyone.

While I finish getting everything set up, I figure everyone can discuss how the group may or may not know each other. You don’t necessarily need to know each other, but in a small town such as Trunau it’s not a stretch that you could have some prior relationship with each other. In addition, you can finish up any tweaks to your characters now that we know what the group looks like.

A few notes for everyone to provide insight into the campaign I am planning.

I am a fan of milestone leveling, so I will be using that instead of adding up XP. I do still want to provide some benefits for the various story awards, so it is my intention to provide some minor bonuses for them. These could be bonuses to any number of appropriate checks at time or possibly even additional Hero Points.

It is my intention to focus on story and RP as much as possible, and I also intend to customize elements to the characters. It may not start out as customized but over time as we get familiar with the characters there will be more. The overall plot will remain though.

I will be adding a PC sheet for each character, you do not need to fill it out in anyway. I just find it easier to load the tokens from these sheets. Plus it can be a good place to put up a visual image if you want. Many of the visuals I will use in the game will be linked to the Roll20 site. For examples, there are links on the campaign page, though until you join I am unsure if you will be able to see fully.

I am planning on starting the game itself no later than Wednesday night or Thursday morning. Obviously, if you have any questions please feel free to ask.

I don't selection will be completed until Sunday night/Monday morning as the DM has new submission to review and their submissions need the same level of consideration as the ones submitted at the beginning :-)

Lots to consider now. Thank you all for the submissions. I am going to take time today and tomorrow to review the submissions. I should have the group selected no later than Monday night. Here is the final list as I see it.

Characters Submitted

Just about 5 hours to go for submissions. I have to say an impressive 28 active submissions so far. Thank you for that folks. I am hoping to post an final updated list later once the deadline is passed, though it may wait until the morning here depending on if I need to pass out or not.

A lot of good submissions folks. I am working on gathering more info and my thoughts. A few more days to submit for anyone still thinking about it. Here is the latest. Thanks.

Characters Submitted

Time for another update. At this point I am sending out some follow up questions to help me decide. These are coming in private messages as they are sometimes specific questions. Keep an eye out in the next week in case.

Characters Submitted

Well, then.

J Scot Shady, kindly add Kahldek back to the list, and I'll get him finished a.s.a.p.

Sorry for any confusion.

No problem. I left it there but crossed out, just in case.

Glad to see people still seem to be putting in more submissions. I think that means people are excited for this one. Here is the updated submissions. Again, if I overlooked something, please let me know. Thanks.

Characters Submitted

The Hopeknife Festival is an important coming of age event for the local youths in Trunau, a stubbornly independent town within the orc-held land of Belkzen. The lively event is joyous and the whole town comes together to celebrate their history of standing against the orcs that have raided the town numerous times. You celebrate with the people, getting to know the townsfolk and enjoying the pleasant atmosphere, unaware that disaster will strike tonight and will lead to a growing threat to all of Avistan.

Adventurers Wanted!

Hey folks. I’ve been feeling the itch to try running another PBP game and I’ve wanted to take a crack at the Giantslayer AP. I am hoping to focus on telling a good story, good RP, and exciting combat. So, please, if you are interested see below for the guidelines to follow for character creation. Also, please read the Giantslayer Player’s Guide for recommendations to make an appropriate character.

Who: I am looking for five characters.

When: I plan to accept submissions for two weeks, with a cut off of midnight EST, April 11th. Then after a few days, I will present those who I would like to invite to join. It is my hope to begin the actual play in about three weeks.

Attributes: 20 point buy

Races: All core races, plus aasimar, changeling, dhampir, goblin, hobgoblin, orc (see special notes), ratfolk, and tiefling

Alignment: No evil, otherwise the character should want to work together to defeat a growing threat to the region, and not be disruptive.

Starting Gold: 200 gold

Traits: 3 traits but 1 must be a campaign trait found in the Giantslayer Player’s Guide

So, now the GM is afraid to post a recruitment for this group.

Just kidding. Thanks for the encouragement guys. I am still working out a few ideas in my head before setting it up but I will likely put the recruitment up tomorrow night or Friday night(ish). I look forward to the submissions, though I am also slightly afraid.

I'm picturing a mixed group of gnomes, dwarves, goblins, and halflings taking on giants.

OK, so it seems like there is at least some interest. I likely will post a full recruitment in the next few days.

Hey folks. Having recently come back into trying out PBP and being of the mindset that it's only fair to share the GM load, I have been considering running a game again. I have been interested in trying to run a Giantslayer AP for 1E but before I get too much deeper into planning, I figured I'd see if there was anyone interested in playing this one still. Hopefully there is. Thanks.

I wanted to reach out to everyone to explain my absence and my pulling out of the game. It is not personal with any of the players or the GM, I really appreciate the chance to try but two factors have made it a less than ideal experience.

1) 2E just doesn't hit the spot I enjoy from 1E. I love the world and the stories, but I just don't seem to "love" the system.

2) Everyone in the group is great but the pace of this game is too much for me. It's great for those that can keep up and enjoy it, and I wouldn't ask you to change a thing. I just need to accept that my style doesn't seem to fit well.

As I said, I appreciate the chance and I thank you all for understanding. Enjoy, and maybe I will see some of you on another game some time.

@Farol - Thanks. Good to meet you as well. I look forward to playing with you. As for a character, a warpriest can be a great addition. With at least two of us having skill in medicine, plus my elixirs, I think you could focus a little more on melee then a pure healer.

@GM - Enjoy the trip. I also will be away a bit but will definitely have access this time (travel for work, so internet is a must). I will work on leveling tonight and tomorrow and post things later.

I will assume earning income with craft would work as normal. Roll once and multiply by the 16 "days"? I will post a roll as well. Thanks.

Recruit Stetova Hevva is eager to serve House Thrune and the Erinyes company by ensuring the loyalty of the citizens of Longacre.

Stetova is a straight-up fighter but will be hopefully leveling into the Sanguine Angel prestige class at 6th level. She is a disgraced knight-in-training with the church of Iomedae and looking for a little vengeance for the banishment they enforced on her.

The profile has the details, including the short narrative introduction given below, as well as a backstory. I still have some formatting to do on the profile but all the mechanics should be there. Let me know if there is anything needed or if you have questions.

I switched back to the Grey Maiden since you mentioned still wanting combat roles. Plus the Drow Rot Warden Druid I was coming up with didn't feel as fun. Thanks.

I'd be into most anything except War for the Crown and the Runelords trilogy (as I am or have played those completely). I'd really like to see Crimson Throne from the other side of the screen though and I've been interested in doing both Hell's APs.

I do appreciate the good will guys. It is my hope that the game continues well to the end. I know I was not likely to be able to hold out for it though, so it was best to see if someone more adapt at it would take the reins. I do believe all of you are strong players, and I will not be leaving the format entirely, just not as a GM anytime soon.

I do look forward to assisting GM Nayr get up to speed. I am in contact with him and helping him with resources. So, if anyone had questions, I will try to answer them as best I can. It has been an honor to do this as long as I did. Thank you.

Hey team,

So after some considering about the party make up I have a few changes to mention.

Instead of the Animal domain, I am going to switch it out for the Plant domain. It actually feels like a better fit for a lumberjack background and I don't know why I hadn't thought of that originally.

This means no additional animal companion from me. And since I was also considering taking the Boon Companion feat I have a feat slot that I can fill with Precise Shot at level 3, bringing the character back to a ranged focus (well, besides healing).

As for skills, I can definitely focus on spellcraft (not INT focus but it is a class skill) and I will likely have Religion and History covered. Plus heal with the rest spread across a few others to be secondary or aid. Probably some in Sense Motive as well.

And last, welcome Kerndrew. I would say stick with the melee if that is where you wanted to be. I can provide some ranged support as needed and the rogue seems to be riding the line. I think its a good split.

Enjoy Team!

J Scot Shady wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

The thing you are missing is that you can craft items that aren't available for sale in the region.

I do see that as part of it, but is it intended that PC have that much difficulty in acquiring gear? I may be missing that point, but if that is the only point of crafting then I still think my point is valid. Its not worth it.

It depends on what you want and where you are. If you are in an urban campaign with magic item shops nearby, it's not good. Let someone craft for you. If you are adventuring in ruins a month away from the nearest city, you will prefer crafting for 4 days to taking a 2 month detour or hoping the dungeon has the specific scroll you want.

Yes, that make sense, but how many parties will take the 4 days of downtime in the middle of an adventure? It just seems like they are devoting a fair bit of the rules to something that overall isn't that useful anymore. I can understand wanting to slow down some of the other crafting from 1E but now a simple scroll takes nearly 5 times as long to do, unless you want to pay full price for it.

The thing you are missing is that you can craft items that aren't available for sale in the region.

I do see that as part of it, but is it intended that PC have that much difficulty in acquiring gear? I may be missing that point, but if that is the only point of crafting then I still think my point is valid. Its not worth it.

OK, so I am looking into the crafting rules for second edition and I just am not sure if it is worth it. It honestly seems like it is not MORE difficult and MORE likely to be something players ignore.

If I am reading this correctly, crafting plays out like this.

Character takes 4 days of downtime to make a Crafting check and spends half the price of the item in raw materials. If he succeeds at the check, he then can spend the other half of the price to craft it after the four days, or he can continue crafting it using more downtime to reduce the cost. For a more in depth example, see below.

So, if I am correct, you can either spend a WHOLE lot more time crafting (the example would take up to 20 days) or spend just 4 days and pay full price for the item anyways. So, wouldn't it be a better deal to spend the downtime earning income and use that income to cover some of the cost of the item when you simply buy it.

I am simply not seeing WHY someone would craft anything in this game. I mean alchemists can use the infused reagents, but other than that why would they ever actually use downtime to make additional items?

If I am missing something, please fill me in because I was excited that the alchemist was now focused on crafting, and I thought that meant crafting would be worth doing. Thanks.

Thank you to all those that submitted. I will be reviewing the builds and concepts and I should be posting tomorrow with a decision.

The healer seems about to respond sternly to Harmini but eases off as Nimaethep speaks up. The healer motions for the party to follow her and heads into the building's front entrance.

"I've read up on the afflictions of mummy's." she says as she leads the party. "The wounds are not infectious, so he should not be a danger to others. Please bring him in, I will see who may be able to help."

The healer leads the party into a small room with some other wounded people and continues to answer the group's questions.

"As for what has happened, I have heard many ideas but nothing clear. Several people seem to be irrationally saying that the Madness has returned. Whatever it is, it seems to be bringing the dead back to life. Now please wait here for a moment."

The healer heads off quickly. A minute passes and Teos seems weak but no worse than before. A young voice calls out from nearby.

"Teos!"a young boy shouts as he approaches. "Your sister will be glad... Oh no, what has happened you you?"

Edamm sits down near Valerica and Trig, taking a few bites of the boar. She saves a nice juicy piece to take out to Ponok in a few as she hears Valerica and Trig discussing Lord Foxglove. At the mention of any reaction to Lord Foxglove she tenses and drops the piece of meat she was about to bite.

She quickly grabs the meat and the extra piece for Ponok and makes for the door. As she is about to leave she is passed by the tall man entering and she pauses.

Lord Kaiitsu at the Rusty Dragon? Jubrayl said to keep my eye out for this kind of thing. There's bad blood between the lord and Ameiko he said. She's been so nice when I've seen her. Hope this isn't trouble.

Chui opens the door and slips in. He looks back at his companions and stumbles back a bit as something on the floor trips him up. Through the open door, the rest of the party can see the room as well.

The walls of this room are decorated with a scenic vista of a river valley running through a desert, resplendent with verdant life and greenery near the shores. Only a few pieces of lacquered furniture remain in the chamber. A faint, musty odor of decomposed wood and fabric lingers in the air. On the floor is a headless body and this is what Chui stumbled over.

This was poorly planned!

Note that it is a racial trait (part of the character's race) and not a race trait (one of the two you get at 1st level, but with a racial prerequisite).

Not sure if you meant the correct one or not, but I figured I'd clarify just in case - it comes up a lot. ^_^

I did mean Racial, sorry.

I feel that the layout works fine the way it is. I feel it is unnecessary to spend the additional time and money needed to go to this trouble. And I certainly don't feel it is foolish not do sleeve the game, even if you can cut out over 300 by having to re-sleeve a lot each game (by the way there is an issue with your math, there are only 7 henchmen per scenario not 8). I think it is admirable that Vic and the crew are trying to please as many people as possible but realize that by requesting this change would make some other people unhappy, myself included. I think foam inserts would not look as clean, foam tends to become static filled, and as the cards are moved in and out it will become damaged as foam is not the most durable of materials.

Sorry for the little rant.

And to Slandor, I simply put the cards that are out of the game in one of the empty adventure decks. But then again I don't sleeve my cards so they can also fit in the box.

I'm unclear why any house rules would be needed at all - couldn't you just vary the number and mix of cards in the locations to make it easier or harder?

For example, if one additional monster were added to each Brigandoom! location, that would have a significant impact on the difficulty, and wouldn't involve any rules changes at all. Heck, I can see fan scenarios being created and rated for difficulty in some as yet unspecified manner.

Which has me thinking ... I wonder if there could be the equivalent of Tomb of Horrors for the Adventure Card Game. Hell, I bet Paizo could put out decks that could be the basis for games based on existing modules like Tomb of the Iron Medusa or the Dragon's Demand. That would be pretty damn cool.

I don't think I would stop there if I was them. I would not only try to release smaller "adventure" packs (one new adventure card, three scenarios, maybe a new location for each scenario, villians, etc.) but maybe an even smaller Pathfinder Society Scenario pack.

I know there have been card games before, and I know there have been adventure/campaign games before (a favorite example of mine is Space Hulk), but I believe this is the first of it's kind. The format seems to lend itself to possibly expanding across the whole Pathfinder library (eventually).

I for one don't feel it is necessary to reprint the cards. And as for the customer service issue, I think I can explain this. Please correct me if I am wrong here, but this game can be looked at as both a board game and a CCG.

One of the reasons Paizo has made the decision to not reprint the cards is that all of the copies have been printed. They do not currently plan on running another print of Rise Of The Runelords. While there are very few typos, there have been a number of clarifications in both the rulebook (which I do think should be redone as a PDF) and on the cards themselves. This would be like Magic reprinting the an entire set to clear up a ruling made later, and just like Magic does, Paizo released the errate/clarifactions and moves onto the next set for corrections.

The reason games like Elder Sign can reprint cards, and provide them for the customers that bought the older version, is that they release second (or third, etc) editions of the same game. It's exactly the same, just with the corrections. Yes they have expansions (which often have second+ editions as well) but the base game is the same. This is not what Paizo plans from what I have seen.

I expect that next year after Rise of The Runelords is finished we will see another base set like game (still compatible but seperate from the current one), with another character expansion pack, and then 5 more adventure deck packs (assuming the first adventure deck comes with the new base). When this is released, Paizo will hopefully make the clarifications (shame on them if they don't, though I also think they will have a new set of corrections for the next game, hey that's life).

I think Paizo as a whole has been great about this game. Vic and Mike have been responsive on the site here, helping clarify issues and being receptive to mistakes (a 14 to recharge Detect Magic). I think people should accept that as the first attempt at this type of thing (ever as far as I've seen) this went really well. It may not be a CCG, but the game itself may be collectible at some point as the first ever game of it's type and now see what it's become (assuming this takes off).