What is Mythic?

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the previous level 26-30 creatures were re-balanced to be level 21-25 but with many new Mythic abilities put onto them. Their increased threat level would still exist, but it'd exist under the framework on the PF2E system instead of what they were in PF1E.

Yeah as someone who wanted 2e mythic to have 26-30 foes i'm kinda waiting to see what the if "level 21-25 mythics" truly feel like equivalent or not :O (because it does feel kinda weird if CR 26 demon lord would be level 21 mythic in 2e and lose in fight to CR 25 Treerazer who is still level 25 in 2e)

(and if CR 26-30 ALL are level 25 mythic.. Well that its own source of confusion)

I'm interested to see how in the world this system is going to be balanced. Not that original Mythic ever was, but with the tight math being such a selling point of the 2E system, this preview seems to fly in the face of that.

Mythic proficiency sounds bonkers, even if limited in scope and number of uses per day.

This is actually not as bonkers as it seems on a surface level. A reroll where you keep the higher result is worth a +5 to just hitting and often 1-3 to critting.

This basically just gives you a +8 if you are trained, then gets weaker the better you are at the skill. You'll mostly be using this at Expert or Master, which it's only netting you +6 and +4 respectively.

Honestly I'm kind of worried. I loved 1e mythic even though it was a broken mess that laughed at the idea of balance, but I always thought 2e had the perfect way to implement mythic as 1e advertised. A tier being roughly equal to half a level would be incredibly easy to implement in 2e without breaking the fundamental math.

This makes me worried that it's going to make nobody happy. The people who don't want mythic to break things are going to be upset at (at low levels) a huge power boost, even if it's on a limited resource, and the people like me who want mythic to be a strong power boost aren't going to get that, because sure, going from a +14 to a +20 or so is going to be great for letting a level 10 get a hit in on something that's level 16 or so...but it's not going to do anything for the level 20s who are trying to take down demigods to go from a +28 to a +30 against something that's level 28, even if it was a passive, always on resource. As a limited pool it doesn't mean you can *beat* demigods, just that you can maybe get a lucky hit in sometimes.

This is honestly what I expected: something like "pick a skill and you get rank/2 as a mythic proficiency bonus to it" is really elegant with how PF2 works. This could be an activate (after rolling) or a passive thing with a certain number of skills or such.

"You can turn a +2 into a +10" is definitely not what I expected, especially since it appears to be an ability that scales inversely as you level. Mythic options getting weaker as your baseline proficiency goes up is counter-intuitive.

We don't have the full picture yet, so maybe it'll be fine.

I'm still looking forward to it, I'm just...worried.

The challenge with these previews is we're getting a small part of the picture and then thinking about it, because that's what people do. :) But it leads to situations where the view that we have can be skewed and maybe the thing will actually be just fine once the whole picture is revealed even though it doesn't make much sense by itself.

I definitely feel you though, the way the math works in this preview has me going "huh?" more than it does "oh wow!" (Course, I thought the Oracle preview sounded like a good idea and the outcome of that was awful, so what do I know?)

I'll reserve judgement for when the books comes out, as obviously we're working with limited data. So far though what I'm seeing doesn't look like it will get me what I want out of Mythic; that is, the ability to take on and fight mythic level threats such as the Archdemons of 1e. Narrative power is great, but I want mechanical power too, and what effectively amounts as a +2 a limited amount of times at level 20 doesn't look like it'll help you take out a level 29 foe. Unless they print the demigods at lower level and give them mythic power to compensate, which honestly would feel lame.

Point is, my point of view is that if Treerazer is the expected ceiling of regular adventurers, that ceiling for Mythic adventurers should be Cyth V'Sug. Until I see more, this doesn't feel like what I'm hoping for.

Let's break the math and get to Mythic! Forget balance! I am all in for this because Mythic characters should not be balanced with non mythic. That is the point.

I want the mechanical power too! Let these Mythic heroes be truly characters of Myth and Legend, and I am not sure you can do that with an occasional +2. Here's hoping!

For those who worry about Mythic upsetting the balance, just skip this book and keep enjoying the games as you already do.

Big unanswered question about the mythic rules. Will mythic allow players to fight level 26-30 creatures? And will we finally be getting statblocks for demigods and kaiju in 2e?

For those who worry about Mythic upsetting the balance, just skip this book and keep enjoying the games as you already do.

I mean, there's going to be a load of non-Mythic content in War of Immortals as well, such as two new classes, several class archetypes, non-Mythic items and gear, potentially non-Mythic spells and feats, etc.

So it'd be better to say "ignore the Mythic rules" rather than encouraging to forgo an entire book with plenty of other useful content =P

That said, I agree with Tridus: we're only getting a very narrow snapshot of the whole system and so it's really early to be making judgement calls. I do think, though, it would've been worth playtesting. I suppose since Mythic will largely be an entirely optional system (outside of potential future AP's, which themselves are also optional), there wasn't as much pressure felt to get the community involved in helping to finetune things like with other, broader releases like the various class playtests.

Ezekieru wrote:

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the previous level 26-30 creatures were re-balanced to be level 21-25 but with many new Mythic abilities put onto them. Their increased threat level would still exist, but it'd exist under the framework on the PF2E system instead of what they were in PF1E.

Yeah as someone who wanted 2e mythic to have 26-30 foes i'm kinda waiting to see what the if "level 21-25 mythics" truly feel like equivalent or not :O (because it does feel kinda weird if CR 26 demon lord would be level 21 mythic in 2e and lose in fight to CR 25 Treerazer who is still level 25 in 2e)

(and if CR 26-30 ALL are level 25 mythic.. Well that its own source of confusion)

I'm just surprised because canon products refer to level 26+ creatures. For instance, Osoyo the Blackfrost Whale is explicitly level 27

I wonder whether Mythic Points are a different pool from Hero Points (feels cumbersome) or if they actually replace those.

CorvusMask wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the previous level 26-30 creatures were re-balanced to be level 21-25 but with many new Mythic abilities put onto them. Their increased threat level would still exist, but it'd exist under the framework on the PF2E system instead of what they were in PF1E.

Yeah as someone who wanted 2e mythic to have 26-30 foes i'm kinda waiting to see what the if "level 21-25 mythics" truly feel like equivalent or not :O (because it does feel kinda weird if CR 26 demon lord would be level 21 mythic in 2e and lose in fight to CR 25 Treerazer who is still level 25 in 2e)

(and if CR 26-30 ALL are level 25 mythic.. Well that its own source of confusion)

I'm just surprised because canon products refer to level 26+ creatures. For instance, Osoyo the Blackfrost Whale is explicitly level 27

Yeah that as well. And its far from the only one.

CorvusMask wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the previous level 26-30 creatures were re-balanced to be level 21-25 but with many new Mythic abilities put onto them. Their increased threat level would still exist, but it'd exist under the framework on the PF2E system instead of what they were in PF1E.

Yeah as someone who wanted 2e mythic to have 26-30 foes i'm kinda waiting to see what the if "level 21-25 mythics" truly feel like equivalent or not :O (because it does feel kinda weird if CR 26 demon lord would be level 21 mythic in 2e and lose in fight to CR 25 Treerazer who is still level 25 in 2e)

(and if CR 26-30 ALL are level 25 mythic.. Well that its own source of confusion)

I'm just surprised because canon products refer to level 26+ creatures. For instance, Osoyo the Blackfrost Whale is explicitly level 27

This is why I'm worried. They've kept most things level equal to their old CR intentionally, and there have been a couple of explicit examples of things in that range that were stated to be the appropriate level and just weren't given statblocks because they're too much (the Lantern King being 29 is another example).

So if that's the route they're going, they're retconning things, but I don't think that makes sense and I doubt it's what they're doing. But from what we have seen, mythic isn't going to let us fight those creatures either, which is a failure. I'm just hoping I'm wrong, and glad I've got Sparking Zero and Metaphor to keep me distracted until I can read the rules myself with context.

I guess I'm kind of surprised by just how much people care about levels/CR and keeping them as some sort of true to canon as opposed to like a basis for rules to exist so that you can play a game. Like for me if a creature can still provide the appropriate narrative weight and can be a challenge.. do those exact numbers really matter from a story or gameplay angle?

I would generally view threats that exist outside of a reachable level to be those intended for non-traditional tactics, like bringing in allies and armies, artifacts, deific blessings, using special weaknesses, etc. We don't need level 24 minions that can be taken out in 3-5 rounds using standard tactics.

I guess I'm kind of surprised by just how much people care about levels/CR and keeping them as some sort of true to canon as opposed to like a basis for rules to exist so that you can play a game. Like for me if a creature can still provide the appropriate narrative weight and can be a challenge.. do those exact numbers really matter from a story or gameplay angle?

Mostly I agree with this take. I don't really mind what actual level something is as long as it feels right in the encounter and, to be totally honest, has fun abilities in its statblock for me to oo and ah over while I'm reading it.

I will say it does feel odd, though, when we look at earlier decisions in the game. Like, what's Tar-Baphon doing creating a level 26 artifact-level helm when he himself could only ever be level 25? Yeah, it's a mechanical conceit that doesn't really have any bearing on the moment-to-moment gameplay because it's invisible to the characters, but it's also not invisible to the players, or especially the GMs, and it's hard to just ignore that incongruity sometimes.

I would generally view threats that exist outside of a reachable level to be those intended for non-traditional tactics, like bringing in allies and armies, artifacts, deific blessings, using special weaknesses, etc. We don't need level 24 minions that can be taken out in 3-5 rounds using standard tactics.

That last sentence is a good point I hadn't considered. Keeping the cap at level 25 does mean that we don't have the narrative weirdness of needing to justify where the appropriate, non boss-level threats are coming from. Treerazor feels a lot less special when the level 30 baddie has a gaggle of gribblies who are all more powerful than him, which retroactively makes a lot of cool and iconic threats feel kinda cheap.

So, will the mythic rules be used at all in Pathfinder Society? I imagine that we will hear soon about what will be sanctioned from the book.

Like the mechanics are not the world, so sometimes the GM has to make a call RE: who is able to fight whom. If Mogaru is going to step on Baba Yaga's hut, Baba Yaga is not going to go outside and suplex the kaiju, even if there's some math that might suggest she can, she's going to move the hut (that's why it has legs.)

In PF1 we had a statblock for Abrogail Thrune that suggested she was a level 17 sorcerer. This was not an invitation for your level 20 PCs to pick her as a target.

This is why it's extremely good that the baseline for mythic is "you are extremely hard to kill in a way that matters" rather than "you're just walking around with better math."

Calliope5431 wrote:

CorvusMask wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the previous level 26-30 creatures were re-balanced to be level 21-25 but with many new Mythic abilities put onto them. Their increased threat level would still exist, but it'd exist under the framework on the PF2E system instead of what they were in PF1E.

Yeah as someone who wanted 2e mythic to have 26-30 foes i'm kinda waiting to see what the if "level 21-25 mythics" truly feel like equivalent or not :O (because it does feel kinda weird if CR 26 demon lord would be level 21 mythic in 2e and lose in fight to CR 25 Treerazer who is still level 25 in 2e)

(and if CR 26-30 ALL are level 25 mythic.. Well that its own source of confusion)

I'm just surprised because canon products refer to level 26+ creatures. For instance, Osoyo the Blackfrost Whale is explicitly level 27

This is why I'm worried. They've kept most things level equal to their old CR intentionally, and there have been a couple of explicit examples of things in that range that were stated to be the appropriate level and just weren't given statblocks because they're too much (the Lantern King being 29 is another example).

So if that's the route they're going, they're retconning things, but I don't think that makes sense and I doubt it's what they're doing. But from what we have seen, mythic isn't going to let us fight those creatures either, which is a failure. I'm just hoping I'm wrong, and glad I've got Sparking Zero and Metaphor to keep me distracted until I can read the rules myself with context.

Honestly the Cyth V'Sug being mythic 25 makes me pretty certain they ARE retconning. Since we know he was previously CR 26+ (as a full demon lord).

Which for the record is totally okay, but makes it weird and obnoxious because now there's a separate power scale. Is Treerazer weaker than Cyth V'Sug? Probably. But is he weaker than a mythic balor or vrolikai? I have no idea.

In PF 1e they said straight up what a mythic rank 5 owlbear's CR was. Here it seems to be a somewhat vague "we don't know", and that's troubling from a GM perspective of building encounters. Maybe it'll just be methods of being unkillable, in which case it's mostly a flavor thing - but if mythic affects actual combat power it'll be a royal headache to balance fights.

So, will the mythic rules be used at all in Pathfinder Society? I imagine that we will hear soon about what will be sanctioned from the book.

Unlikely, though there might be specific scenarios that allow PCs to dabble in mythic in a limited, controlled manner - there was a two-parter module for 1e PFS that did something along those lines, if I recall...

So, will the mythic rules be used at all in Pathfinder Society? I imagine that we will hear soon about what will be sanctioned from the book.

Almost certainly not as a player option, because mixing mythic and non-mythic PCs at a table is going to cause problems. Both in the "I can pull out a +8 at level 2 on this skill check and completely trivialize it" manner that the scenario author can't account for, and the "some PCs are significantly better than others and that's a source of friction" manner.

It wouldn't be surprising if some scenarios said "something happens and now you have X mythic ability available during this scenario", though. That lets the author at least account for and control it, and keeps every PC on a somewhat equal footing.

I’m just excited to tick all the boxes in Pathbuilder and see what I can come up with.

Yes please, I’ll take an FA, Dual Class with mythic powers please.

In PF1 we had a statblock for Abrogail Thrune that suggested she was a level 17 sorcerer. This was not an invitation for your level 20 PCs to pick her as a target.

Sure it was, it's just that it necessitates a little, creativity.

I’m just excited to tick all the boxes in Pathbuilder and see what I can come up with.

Yes please, I’ll take an FA, Dual Class with mythic powers please.

Don't forget Ancestry Paragon while we're at it

So, will the mythic rules be used at all in Pathfinder Society? I imagine that we will hear soon about what will be sanctioned from the book.

There is one scenario announced with the "Mythic" tag: 6-09 "Of Myths and Legends".

Mythic in a nutshell. ;-)

House rule mythic proficiency is now +11

Mythic bugleyman wrote:

Mythic in a nutshell. ;-)

House rule mythic proficiency is now +11

Ok, that was pretty clever.

For anyone who might be interested, there is actually a sequel inbound.

{. . .}

Being able to spend a mythic point to get +10 to attack rolls would be very different. At that point, the party could spend all their mythic points to stat check a PL+3 solo boss. Critical hit with a falcata and shocking Grasp Spellstrike+another critical hit with a finisher with a karambit=A very dead boss.

Isn't Shocking Grasp about to undergo Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure?

Prince Setehrael wrote:

Oh I am so excited.

And as far as Mythic Destinies revealed:
Archfiend
Apocalypse Rider
Ascended Celestial
Eternal Legend
Prophesied Monarch
Gosling

That's 6 out of 9 in War of Immortals and there is the Mortal Herald in Divine Mysteries next month.

Finally I can fulfill out my TTRPG dream of playing one of the lead actors of such hit films as La La Land and The Nice Guys

Just don't put all your eggs in one basket

I'll reserve judgement for when the books comes out, as obviously we're working with limited data. So far though what I'm seeing doesn't look like it will get me what I want out of Mythic; that is, the ability to take on and fight mythic level threats such as the Archdemons of 1e. Narrative power is great, but I want mechanical power too, and what effectively amounts as a +2 a limited amount of times at level 20 doesn't look like it'll help you take out a level 29 foe. Unless they print the demigods at lower level and give them mythic power to compensate, which honestly would feel lame.

Point is, my point of view is that if Treerazer is the expected ceiling of regular adventurers, that ceiling for Mythic adventurers should be Cyth V'Sug. Until I see more, this doesn't feel like what I'm hoping for.

Desril wrote:

Calliope5431 wrote:

CorvusMask wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the previous level 26-30 creatures were re-balanced to be level 21-25 but with many new Mythic abilities put onto them. Their increased threat level would still exist, but it'd exist under the framework on the PF2E system instead of what they were in PF1E.

Yeah as someone who wanted 2e mythic to have 26-30 foes i'm kinda waiting to see what the if "level 21-25 mythics" truly feel like equivalent or not :O (because it does feel kinda weird if CR 26 demon lord would be level 21 mythic in 2e and lose in fight to CR 25 Treerazer who is still level 25 in 2e)

(and if CR 26-30 ALL are level 25 mythic.. Well that its own source of confusion)

I'm just surprised because canon products refer to level 26+ creatures. For instance, Osoyo the Blackfrost Whale is explicitly level 27

This is why I'm worried. They've kept most things level equal to their old CR intentionally, and there have been a couple of explicit examples of things in that range that were stated to be the appropriate level and just weren't given statblocks because they're too much (the Lantern King being 29 is another example).

So if that's the route they're going, they're retconning things, but I don't think that makes sense and I doubt it's what they're doing. But from what we have seen, mythic isn't going to let us fight those creatures either, which is a failure. I'm just hoping I'm wrong, and glad I've got Sparking Zero and Metaphor to keep me distracted until I can read the rules myself with context.

Honestly the Cyth V'Sug being mythic 25 makes me pretty certain they ARE retconning. Since we know he was previously CR 26+ (as a full demon lord).

Which for the record is totally okay, but makes it weird and obnoxious because now there's a separate power scale. Is Treerazer weaker than Cyth V'Sug? Probably. But is he weaker than a mythic balor or vrolikai? I have no idea.

In PF...

I mean technically speaking there's already an AP where you take on multiple mythic tier threats, meet an NPC who was started out with mythic tiers, and more or less become successors to one of greatest legends in Golarion. It's already very confusing.

Can't wait to see how this works with Starfinder 2E.

We have confirmed that level 25 is the cap at this point for things, be they monsters or NPCs or artifacts or whatever. Before we finalized this with the content of War of Immortals, we did have a few things slip through the cracks based on previous assumptions from 1st edition (such as Osoyo being pegged at level 27), but going forward we'll be sticking with level 25 as the cap for things and, when/if we do more with Osoyo or whatever will errata those numbers as makes sense.

The short version is that when a creature becomes mythic it's more powerful than an equivalent level creature that's not mythic. So to take the Treerazer/Cyth-V'sug angle, Treerazer is level 25, while Cyth-V'sug would be level 25 but also a mythic monster. More info coming, of course, once the book's out.

So while evil outsiders have two mythic destinies (apocalypse rider and archfiend), good outsiders have only one (ascended celestial)?

To be fair, that's assuming one of the unknown three isn't a good one. I really hope we find out what the other three are soon though.

Are all CR 26-30 now level 25 but mythic so they are now of equal power?

Are all CR 26-30 now level 25 but mythic so they are now of equal power?

No. They'll vary as we want them to vary, if and when we ever do stats for them. I do not envision we'll ever convert all of the 1st edition level 26–30 creatures over, but will be picking and choosing them (and augmenting them with brand new stuff) as the stories we want to tell suggest going forward.

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Prince Setehrael wrote:

Oh I am so excited.

And as far as Mythic Destinies revealed:
Archfiend
Apocalypse Rider
Ascended Celestial
Eternal Legend
Prophesied Monarch
Gosling

That's 6 out of 9 in War of Immortals and there is the Mortal Herald in Divine Mysteries next month.

It is a lovely day in the War of Immortals, and you are a horrible goose. :P

Mythic awakened goose.

Never underestimate how mythically crazy geese are.

I mean technically speaking there's already an AP where you take on multiple mythic tier threats, meet an NPC who was started out with mythic tiers, and more or less become successors to one of greatest legends in Golarion. It's already very confusing.

Well sure. But that confusion is mostly edition-to-edition weirdness and flavor.

I'm more concerned about the mechanical weirdness inside PF 2E, not whether or not it makes any sense when compared to PF 1E. Like it or not, PF 1e is its own thing. PF 2E isn't bound to follow anything in PF 1E in terms of flavor or mechanics, and already has literally whacked one of PF 1E's core deities.

Whereas whether or not a mythic level 15 monster (in PF 2E) is an appropriate challenge for non-mythic level 14 PCs (playing PF 2E) actually matters. Because vanishingly few GMs want to accidentally slaughter their party.

I'm assuming that there's going to be a mythic template that you can apply to monsters in order to make them an appropriate challenge for a mythic party of the appropriate level, but you should avoid applying this template to monsters you plan to send against normal PCs.

Like I'm going to be sad if I can't have a mythic bear or a mythic housecat.

I'm assuming that there's going to be a mythic template that you can apply to monsters in order to make them an appropriate challenge for a mythic party of the appropriate level, but you should avoid applying this template to monsters you plan to send against normal PCs.

Like I'm going to be sad if I can't have a mythic bear or a mythic housecat.

Mythic Lava Otters

Can't wait to see how this works with Starfinder 2E.

My big hope is for SF2e to use mythic rules to allow for more powerful or complex playable species that don't fit the normal game balance or character design limits. Could be the place to give species with multiple arms more ways to use them effectively. Some new mythic-only species would be fun to have too.

Mythic mechs and starships would be cool to have.

We have confirmed that level 25 is the cap at this point for things, be they monsters or NPCs or artifacts or whatever. Before we finalized this with the content of War of Immortals, we did have a few things slip through the cracks based on previous assumptions from 1st edition (such as Osoyo being pegged at level 27), but going forward we'll be sticking with level 25 as the cap for things and, when/if we do more with Osoyo or whatever will errata those numbers as makes sense.

The short version is that when a creature becomes mythic it's more powerful than an equivalent level creature that's not mythic. So to take the Treerazer/Cyth-V'sug angle, Treerazer is level 25, while Cyth-V'sug would be level 25 but also a mythic monster. More info coming, of course, once the book's out.

Wait, what? Level 25??

I thought max level in Pathfinder was 20?

Is Level 25 a PF2 thing??

James Jacobs wrote:

We have confirmed that level 25 is the cap at this point for things, be they monsters or NPCs or artifacts or whatever. Before we finalized this with the content of War of Immortals, we did have a few things slip through the cracks based on previous assumptions from 1st edition (such as Osoyo being pegged at level 27), but going forward we'll be sticking with level 25 as the cap for things and, when/if we do more with Osoyo or whatever will errata those numbers as makes sense.

The short version is that when a creature becomes mythic it's more powerful than an equivalent level creature that's not mythic. So to take the Treerazer/Cyth-V'sug angle, Treerazer is level 25, while Cyth-V'sug would be level 25 but also a mythic monster. More info coming, of course, once the book's out.

Wait, what? Level 25??

I thought max level in Pathfinder was 20?

Is Level 25 a PF2 thing??

NPC levels, Treerazor and Tarrasque are level 25.

(since to have solo boss enemies you need to have level 21-24 enemies for level 20 party)

We have confirmed that level 25 is the cap at this point for things, be they monsters or NPCs or artifacts or whatever. Before we finalized this with the content of War of Immortals, we did have a few things slip through the cracks based on previous assumptions from 1st edition (such as Osoyo being pegged at level 27), but going forward we'll be sticking with level 25 as the cap for things and, when/if we do more with Osoyo or whatever will errata those numbers as makes sense.

The short version is that when a creature becomes mythic it's more powerful than an equivalent level creature that's not mythic. So to take the Treerazer/Cyth-V'sug angle, Treerazer is level 25, while Cyth-V'sug would be level 25 but also a mythic monster. More info coming, of course, once the book's out.

Pardon me for saying this, but that is extremely disappointing. Again, we've not seen mythic yet so maybe there's something in the rules when you get to the Mythic Destinies that lets monsters actually become intimidating, but setting a max level of 25 and having that represent past level 26-30 monsters just doesn't gel with me. With what we've seen so far, besides the narrative power, it looks to me like a Nascent Demon Lord like Treerazer at level 25 could pretty easily handle something that was previously level 27-28, if now it's a level 22-23 creature with some once per day boosts. Again, benefit of the doubt, you've done some great stuff, but wow that is demoralising. Hits the same "if this doesn't fit into the system you shouldn't have done it at all" buttons that the execution of the undead archetypes did.

It'll depend on how they implement it. If its like pf1e where certain amounts of mythic tiers grant equivalent power to a level, it should be fine. Its basically just standardization of the different ways they used to make enemies past CR 25, and would be a good way to represent how power is attained past that level.

It'd certainly be better than pf1e where you had creatures of CR 26+ with no mythic powers, level 25 and below creatures that had mythic powers that made them equivalent to a CR 26-30 creature, and CR 26+ creatures with mythic powers that apparently had no effect on CR.

Of course if they make it so the only difference between a level 25 mythic and non-mythic enemy is a few resource based ablilities and a passive that says "non-mythic things cant kill me ever lul," then yes, it'd be a disappointment.

I for one really don’t need monsters in the game with numbers so high they are functionally useless stat blocks because I will never be able to reasonably use them in my game. It feels like at that point it is just a mental exercise for theory crafting, and it would really make spells and spell rank break down if there are creatures 10 levels ahead of a level 20 character.

Like nothing about a hypothetical 30th level creature would make sense as far as it being able to do anything that a level 25 creature can’t do except more numbers, and I wouldn’t see the value added there. Making a bunch of hypothetical rank 11+ spells and level 21+ feats just for NPCs and just for creatures far beyond the ability of level 20 heroes to fight feels like a colossal waste of developers time and resources as that would be used in like maybe one one book of one AP.

I am excited to see the kind of narrative breaking mythic powers creatures and characters can eventually get to make telling the super powerful creatures of myths stories possible without it just being about numbers in a stat block.

I absolutely anticipate a "non-mythic things can't kill me lul" passive on most things that would've been level 26 and beyond on 1e, and that's so much more disappointing than actually making them strong enough that you need mythic to take them down.

I for one really don’t need monsters in the game with numbers so high they are functionally useless stat blocks because I will never be able to reasonably use them in my game. It feels like at that point it is just a mental exercise for theory crafting, and it would really make spells and spell rank break down if there are creatures 10 levels ahead of a level 20 character.

Like nothing about a hypothetical 30th level creature would make sense as far as it being able to do anything that a level 25 creature can’t do except more numbers, and I wouldn’t see the value added there. Making a bunch of hypothetical rank 11+ spells and level 21+ feats just for NPCs and just for creatures far beyond the ability of level 20 heroes to fight feels like a colossal waste of developers time and resources as that would be used in like maybe one one book of one AP.

I am excited to see the kind of narrative breaking mythic powers creatures and characters can eventually get to make telling the super powerful creatures of myths stories possible without it just being about numbers in a stat block.

Well yes, I feel like the appeal of such creatures is that you specifically can't use them in ordinary games. They're specifically for Mythic adventures. There should be a noticeable difference between an ordinary and a mythic character, especially in the creatures they fight. Otherwise it's just saying that you're [insert mythic destiny here] without feeling like it.

The noticeable difference doesn’t need to be in raw numbers though. It can be in narrative powers that break the mold of the game and will be more interesting than just “can’t be killed.”

sidenote, do you think first mythic 2e ap might be Iblydos ap? :O

sidenote, do you think first mythic 2e ap might be Iblydos ap? :O

Given that they made sure to give us almost all the Ancestries such a thing would need with Howl of the Wild, I think the odds of that are honestly very, very good.

The 'problem' (not that I see it as such) is that there's a few potential Mythic APs that lead out to me: Iblydan hero-gods, Arcadian hero-gods, mythic heroes beating up on Walkena, and mythic heroes beating up on Tar-Baphon. I don't envy the team that has to space those out/choose which ones happen!

CorvusMask wrote:

sidenote, do you think first mythic 2e ap might be Iblydos ap? :O

Given that they made sure to give us almost all the Ancestries such a thing would need with Howl of the Wild, I think the odds of that are honestly very, very good.

The 'problem' (not that I see it as such) is that there's a few potential Mythic APs that lead out to me: Iblydan hero-gods, Arcadian hero-gods, mythic heroes beating up on Walkena, and mythic heroes beating up on Tar-Baphon. I don't envy the team that has to space those out/choose which ones happen!

I could see all of those, plus probably a few dozen more that I'm not envisioning. The only thing I'm a little more believing is that a Tar-Baphon AP might be saved for near the end of the edition, as he seems to be a bit of an overarching villain that does a lot for the lore by existing and being a threat (alliance between the Knights of Lastwall and places like Oprak, Belkzen, the mounting panic of Razmir, potentially big upsets in Ustalav...). I do believe we'll be heading to Iblydos eventually, with Howl of the Wild and Mythic being added.

William Ronald wrote:

So, will the mythic rules be used at all in Pathfinder Society? I imagine that we will hear soon about what will be sanctioned from the book.

Unlikely, though there might be specific scenarios that allow PCs to dabble in mythic in a limited, controlled manner - there was a two-parter module for 1e PFS that did something along those lines, if I recall...

Three-parter: Destiny of the Sands. IIRC, you only got to be Mythic for the last part.

That kind of thing (except hopefully more than once) is the only way Mythic-in-PFS can really work IMNSHO. Well, unless Mythic ends up so popular that they do a whole parallel campaign for it, but that seems...unlikely.

sidenote, do you think first mythic 2e ap might be Iblydos ap? :O

I hope so. Made a minotaur bouncer, which sent me wanting to learn about iblydos. And it's so disappointing that Casmaron has so little info about it.

Unrelated: Genuinely curious which will come first: Lost Omens Arcadia or Iblydos