Starfinder Second Edition is Coming!

I'm excited for this! Although I thought the rules for SF1 were decent, I had a more personal preference for PF2 rules. I'm excited to see that PF2 and SF2 will be compatible with each other. I'm looking forward to the play test next year.

I want to allow the people upset by this news to grieve, but at the same time I'm calling it now: in a few years this decision will be recognized as an insanely good thing for Starfinder and the science fantasy ttrpg scene as a whole.

I am now content as I was dead on these past few months, now to really dig into this "new SF II prototype Soldier"

Thank you Team Starfinder, Pf II team and all of Paizo for making this happen , a lot less to worry about now!!

Tom

I stopped buying Starfinder books, but now that this news came out, I'm going to buy all the Starfinder Sourcebooks I'm missing.

Having played almost all the AP's I don't really have a lot to grieve about -- I got my money's worth. But I am curious about some of the balancing choices they'll have to make and how they're going to make Starfinder classes stand out.

If you're making your system 1:1 compatible that means Starfinder will have 10th level spells, which it currently lacks. Soooo that unleashes a whole new can of worms on how you're going to balance Mystics/etc. You're going to need to sell me on why I would rather take a Mystic or Technomancer over a Wizard or Cloistered Cleric.

There are a couple of options: You make them full casters, which seems a poor design choice when you already have them, or you zap them from existence and just say "Play a wizard in a spacesuit", in which case I'd stick with 1e.

Also -- flying is reserved for levels 16-20 in Pathfinder 2e. You can buy a jetpack at level 3 in Starfinder. How they'll reconcile that, I don't know, but if the solution is to make jetpacks a high level item...again, I think I'll stick with the game where I can buy a jetpack at level 3.

I started paizo products with starfinder until PF2e dropped with a ruleset I greatly preferred. Loved the setting immensely so I'm very excited for SF2e

Wintergreen wrote:

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Super excited for all of this! Also very intrigued by Zon-Shelyn, especially in the context of what we learned in the Pathfinder side of things.

I'm almost afraid to ask; what did we learn on the Pathfinder side of things, exactly?

I was wondering the same thing.

There's going to be a Drift Crisis syle event involving a divine war. One of the Core 20 is going to die.

WHAT?!

Excuse you?! The hell you mean?!

Where was this?!

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Wintergreen wrote:

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Super excited for all of this! Also very intrigued by Zon-Shelyn, especially in the context of what we learned in the Pathfinder side of things.

I'm almost afraid to ask; what did we learn on the Pathfinder side of things, exactly?

I was wondering the same thing.

There's going to be a Drift Crisis syle event involving a divine war. One of the Core 20 is going to die.

WHAT?!

Excuse you?! The hell you mean?!

Where was this?!

GenCon Keynote presentation.

I'm really interested to see how this goes. The big one for me and my group is whether SF2E integrates immediately into Foundry. We run our PF2E campaigns in Foundry and the modules Paizo sells are fantastic. I'm hopeful witht eh cross compatibility and same ruleset that SF2E content will have greater Foundry support.

Yes!!!! After diving a bit more into Pf2e recently this year the only thing I've wished is for a Starfinder to be more similar to 2e. Can't wait for this! I might revive the Starfinder game I was running once a few of the books release.

As someone who never played PF1 (I already had 3.5 and liked 4E okay), I first started following Paizo for Starfinder. Loved the game themes and setting, but mostly stopped playing it after PF2 came out because I like that game better.

Starfinder story and setting that plays more like PF2 sounds like my dream game!

Curious how this new edition will handle the many unqiue species with the more in depth ancestry system. Also, show us Altronus or we riot.

Sipping my tea and remembering when folks were up in arms about PF2E when it was launched, and seeing lots of similar comments here.

For me, this is nothing but good news! It makes sense from a business perspective, and will undoubtedly have a strong impact on the community and Organized Play. I've always been Starfinder-curious, and this seems like the perfect excuse to jump in!

This is disappointing. I'd hoped Starfinder would remain its thing and not get "2e"-ified. I really don't like the core design of Pathfinder 2e at all. I guess I'll finish getting what is coming for SF1 and... that leaves me nothing at all Paizo releases anymore except maybe a map one in a while.

It's a shame. :(

I am of the same opinion - good thing is I have lots of SF and PF 1e AP's and modules I can use, and I will save money not buying books.

Having played almost all the AP's I don't really have a lot to grieve about -- I got my money's worth. But I am curious about some of the balancing choices they'll have to make and how they're going to make Starfinder classes stand out.

If you're making your system 1:1 compatible that means Starfinder will have 10th level spells, which it currently lacks. Soooo that unleashes a whole new can of worms on how you're going to balance Mystics/etc. You're going to need to sell me on why I would rather take a Mystic or Technomancer over a Wizard or Cloistered Cleric.

There are a couple of options: You make them full casters, which seems a poor design choice when you already have them, or you zap them from existence and just say "Play a wizard in a spacesuit", in which case I'd stick with 1e.

There's a mention in one of their announcements that the mystic uses both primal and divine magic as well as doing party bonding. So it might have fewer spell slots but wider spell access and more class features (ala the Psychic, inasmuch as amps are a class feature that enhances core spellcasting mechanics).

Hurra!!! Soooo happy!! Love all the PF2e, and always liked the Starfinder setting. And now they are link together. A great day to be a Paizo fan.

Also, from a marketing perspective, I think it is a great move to make both settings compatible. Transvase of fans from one to another, don't have to have multiple ancestries/mosnters/player options duplicated, etc.

I really think that Paizo hit the jackpot with this movement. Can't wait :)

Sipping my tea and remembering when folks were up in arms about PF2E when it was launched, and seeing lots of similar comments here.

Everything new is old again.

Chk Chk babysitting his brother around in larva jar raises so many questions about Keskodai's family situation :D

I am once again concerned (as some mentioned above) about 'splitting the party'.

Is there a need for SF2? Probably, if Paizo is backing it up with announcements

Does it feel sort of like 'being left behind' the way some folks felt about PF1? Yes.

Also as noted above, this is a game that is 'Flight-friendly'.

If they try to destroy that to bring it to 'current' PF2 Flying, I do not know if I'll have enough bandwidth or care to play anymore.

This may change, but the 'tunnel vision/single path' adventures should be retired with the OGL, imo.

I hope they ultimately move away from the leveled weapons. Just give us Starfinder equivalent of Potency and Striking runes.

Oh, and give us good vehicle customization rules. Hell, such rules should be there from the start and each vehicle added into the game should be built from such rules. The only ones that should have vehicles that go beyond the norm should be those created by Mechanics.

Sounds like da pretty lady wot went missin iz comin back wif more pointy bitz, propah orc-like.

Next time dat bloke at da tavern axes me an Groktar to step fru 'is tellyporta or woteva 'e callz it, I mite just take 'im up on it if meanz I can get some new flash for me necksplitta.

I do hope they genuinely don't try to change Starfinder assumptions to fit Pathfinder just to keep systems compatible.

Like SF1e does a LOT more gonzo stuff than PF2e does which is fairly mundane at low levels and afraid of letting players go too wild early on

Super excited for Starfinder 2e because I felt some of the system language that existed as hold-overs from PF1e/3.5 were clunky and holding the system back. At least in terms of my personal enjoyment.

However, I've looked at the Soldier field test and noticed that they completely removed Stamina. I know that the game will be fully compatible with Pathfiner 2e, but Stamina was one of the parts that I felt made Starfinder unique and gave it more of an action-driven feel. I'd like to see the system maintain its unique identity instead of being "Pathfinder in space" for the sakes of compatibility.

On one hand, I'm stoked for Starfinder to inherit the good bits of PF2, like the three action economy and functional encounter balance.

On the other hand, I am gonna miss how SF1 did diverge from PF1 (and how SF2 seems like it will not be able to do so, in order to maintain PF2 rules compatibility, unless Paizo is willing to walk this back), and how it is liable to inherit PF2's own flaws (get ready for "casters feel bad to play": three-action science-fantasy edition!) .
I'll also miss quirks like EAC/KAC, light/heavy/powered armor, stamina and resolve, class and build flexibility, and the very oddball species.

(And I'm glad I am not alone in this sentiment across both here and some other places online.)

I'm still more excited than not, but it's not without caveats.

I hope they ultimately move away from the leveled weapons. Just give us Starfinder equivalent of Potency and Striking runes.

Here. They're leveled, but have built in damage bumps and a new "tracking" feature for accuracy that exactly matches the dice bumps and accuracy increases that runes provide at the same levels in PF2.

Not gonna lie, this caught me off-guard.

Wasn't expecting a playtest for SF2 for a couple years at least (y'know, the whole "10 year life-expectancy for RPGs" thing).

I really haven't interacted with PF2 since its playtest and I'm not sure how hyped I can get for these rules in a Starfinder skin. With the compatibility announcement, I fervently hope that Starfinder stays as its own rules set and doesn't become just a campaign setting. I'm not up for buying the whole Pathfinder Remastered rules library just for this.

I'm very disappointed in merging it with the PF2 ruleset. Starfinder as its own game with its own mechanics gave it its own feel and not just a reskinned pathfinder. The stamina system in particular let you take any group of mixed nuts and run them through a wacky adventure without having to worry too much about who was the healer.

navasi with an actual weapon is pretty cool though

Chk Chk babysitting his brother around in larva jar raises so many questions about Keskodai's family situation :D

"There's a species that doesn't use older siblings as free babysitting services?"

I'm very disappointed in merging it with the PF2 ruleset. Starfinder as its own game with its own mechanics gave it its own feel and not just a reskinned pathfinder. The stamina system in particular let you take any group of mixed nuts and run them through a wacky adventure without having to worry too much about who was the healer.

navasi with an actual weapon is pretty cool though

1. It's not "merging" with PF2, it's compatible. It will have its own full rulebook, and the teaser has already shown a willingness to add stuff. PF2 is already quite robust and modular, with trait systems allowing for quite a bit of tinkering.

2. Stamina is already an optional rule in PF2. Even without it, though you still don't need someone to be the "healer" so much as at least have someone pick up medicine.

Super excited by this move.

This means I'll finally get into Starfinder, because I had no interest in keeping two similar but not quite rules systems in my head at once.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that they are similar. Starfinder is essentially Pathfinder 1e with shake-up. Which is only related to Pathfinder 2e in name.

Personally I'm really excited for what the base ruleset for PF2e can bring to starfinder as a system.

That being said, it's gonna be a huge bummer to see the stamina/resolve system go as a core mechanic. It's probably the most innovative and interesting part of the system, and a part of starfinder that I've wished pathfinder 2nd addition took more from.

Yes, I'm aware of the stamina variant rules, but it feels playing with half the rules without the ability to spend those resolve points for powerful abilities to "push yourself".

This new edition of Starfinder is being designed to be fully compatible with the upcoming release of the Pathfinder Remastered rulebooks and all future Pathfinder Second Edition products. This means that all your Pathfinder content going forward will be compatible with the new edition of Starfinder, and that all Starfinder Second Edition content will work in Pathfinder—with your GM’s permission, of course!

I would be so happy if this means we can play envoys in PFS.

We literally stopped playing Starfinder 1 after about 6 months because its rules were so friggin clunky and PF1ishy. We just couldn't handle it anymore. Especially since we were also playing PF2e, which, to us is 1000x more elegant than PF1, SF1, or 'that other system'. Soooooooo happy SF2e that is using PF2e rules!!!! My group has been glued to our computer screens trying to eat up any information we can find about SF2e and it's making us excited to play in space again!! I do feel for everyone that is unhappy with this, but you all have many many books for the system that you prefer and no one will ever stop you from playing that game you love.

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

This means I'll finally get into Starfinder, because I had no interest in keeping two similar but not quite rules systems in my head at once.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that they are similar. Starfinder is essentially Pathfinder 1e with shake-up. Which is only related to Pathfinder 2e in name.

In the grand scheme of things (or: being a person who plays more RPGs than just 80s games and their new editions), both were very similar (d20, Str/Dex/Con, hp, gear as source of powerups) BUT had all those differences that kept tripping you up (how does a Fear spell work in one vs another?). Now I'll be able to do the same with one mental load. Easy win there.

"variant rules" is a non starter. They don't interact with the system and nothing will be made to expand on or use them. They largely collect dust in parts of the rulebook filling up a page count.

"variant rules" is a non starter. They don't interact with the system and nothing will be made to expand on or use them. They largely collect dust in parts of the rulebook filling up a page count.

Free Archetype is a variant rule that is used at something like 70% of tables

Wait, somebody plays without Free Archetype? Weird people.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

"variant rules" is a non starter. They don't interact with the system and nothing will be made to expand on or use them. They largely collect dust in parts of the rulebook filling up a page count.

Free Archetype is a variant rule that is used at something like 70% of tables

ABP is also quite popular.

Free Archetype is a variant rule that is used at something like 70% of tables

Which also breaks the game encounter design at later levels, showing that it is just a variant rule, with minimal support. Stamina/Resolve Points is the same, just a variant rule with minimal support. Variant rules are never going to be like core rules. Seeing Stamina going away from Starfinder 2e seems like a step backwards, forcing the whole Continual Recovery + Ward Medic + Investing in Medicine from PF2e to come back.

WatersLethe wrote:

Free Archetype is a variant rule that is used at something like 70% of tables

Which also breaks the game encounter design at later levels, showing that it is just a variant rule, with minimal support. Stamina/Resolve Points is the same, just a variant rule with minimal support. Variant rules are never going to be like core rules. Seeing Stamina going away from Starfinder 2e seems like a step backwards, forcing the whole Continual Recovery + Ward Medic + Investing in Medicine from PF2e to come back.

Or not having a dick GM who lets you rest and isn't trying to run the dungeon as some simulation since they understand that this is a game, not a chore.

WatersLethe wrote:

Free Archetype is a variant rule that is used at something like 70% of tables

Which also breaks the game encounter design at later levels, showing that it is just a variant rule, with minimal support. Stamina/Resolve Points is the same, just a variant rule with minimal support. Variant rules are never going to be like core rules. Seeing Stamina going away from Starfinder 2e seems like a step backwards, forcing the whole Continual Recovery + Ward Medic + Investing in Medicine from PF2e to come back.

It really doesn't, speaking from extensive experience, they're about as strong as optimized base pf2e characters because action economy is hard bottleneck.

Wait, somebody plays without Free Archetype? Weird people.

The tables that so society play don't use Free Archetype

Or not having a dick GM who lets you rest and isn't trying to run the dungeon as some simulation since they understand that this is a game, not a chore.

Following the rules is being a dick GM? That's new information. Also, better stay away from Adventure Paths, since they are encounter after encounter after encounter.

It really doesn't, speaking from extensive experience, they're about as strong as optimized base pf2e characters because action economy is hard bottleneck.

Also talking from experience, a very optimized party of characters from 14th+ levels will break the encounter balance if they are allowed any common archetype.

This new edition of Starfinder is being designed to be fully compatible with the upcoming release of the Pathfinder Remastered rulebooks and all future Pathfinder Second Edition products. This means that all your Pathfinder content going forward will be compatible with the new edition of Starfinder, and that all Starfinder Second Edition content will work in Pathfinder—with your GM’s permission, of course!

Out of curiosity... is this a big draw for a lot of people? I've never really the desire to combine the 2 settings since I think both are pretty complete as-is. This is potentially a negative for me as I'd rather not have Starfinder feel beholden to specific Pathfinder 2E rules in order to remain cross-compatible.

Also, variant rules aside, Stamina didn't catch on because free unlimited healing outside of combat with medicine means you don't need it. Stamina was also super cludgey with how it interacted with magical healing in SF1, which is another reason I don't miss it

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

Or not having a dick GM who lets you rest and isn't trying to run the dungeon as some simulation since they understand that this is a game, not a chore.

Following the rules is being a dick GM? That's new information. Also, better stay away from Adventure Paths, since they are encounter after encounter after encounter.

I am on running my third PF2 Adventure Path and unless time is sensitive for some reason, the party can heal up almost to full between encounters. There's nothing in the rules that forces you to throw encounter after encounter with just minutes to rest at people, in fact, your g~+~!@n (ha! Paizo boards no longer autocensor 'g~*$+$n') job as a GM to ensure that the game flows at the right pace and people don't fall into some Darkest Dungeon on higher difficulty grade slog UNLESS it's something they specifically wanted upfront.

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

Wait, somebody plays without Free Archetype? Weird people.

The tables that so society play don't use Free Archetype

The society also uses a dozen other specific house rules that make it not the baseline of how the game is played.

About Stamina I don't think that we will get Stamina as main rule in SF2 once that PF2 10 minutes healing basically does the same job without need the RP system and part of RP system was moved to Hero Points.

IMO the 10 minutes healing makes even more sense in a high technological scenario due high-tech restoration technologies (like nano-robots, or some kind of portable fast-healing machines) than just will power and little rest as basically the Stamina + RP does.

YES! YES! YES! I love starfinder so much, despite not playing it much, and the fact that Starfinder 2e is cross compatible with Pathfinder 2e is amazing, it means that when rules rely on something the other already has, we don't need to make a whole new book! Plus, we don't need to reprint the Human, Android, Elf, Orc, Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling, or Yoski for pathfinder 2e!

I am on running my third PF2 Adventure Path and unless time is sensitive for some reason, the party can heal up almost to full between encounters. Sorry if this is some new information you'll have to process now.

Without Continual Recovery, rolling one Treat Wounds per hour is going to take awhile, imagine when you have 150 HP, healing by 4d8 per hour? Or, as I previously stated, someone HAS to invest into Medicine to make healing work and roll against the high DC, and if you do, in case of a failure? Let's wait a whole hour since you are now immune to Treat Wounds.