Starfinder Second Edition is Coming!

While I'm cool with calling my SF1e collection complete. I do need to get the other adventure paths outside of Dead Suns and was hoping for at least having them as collected single bound offerings. Since that isn't going to happen if work is going to be focused on 2e, is there any way a collected bundle of the books could be offered?

Not really, no. To begin with, Paizo's policy is that the original run of AP books needs to sell out (at least in part) before they publish a compilation. The last three announced books (including two hardback APs) are what we're going to get.

roysier wrote:

It looks like I'm in a minority. But I never liked the PF2 rules. 3 and 4 hour combats starting around level 10 are boring as hell. So, it looks like Paizo has nothing more to interest customers like me with this cut over.

That's definitely not normal. 3 to 4 hour combats should be very rare in my experience and from what I've seen from other people. Really long combats (~2 to 3 hours) shouldn't start to be become more common until level 15+. But you are right, at high levels, combat can be quite session-filling. Especially if someone is being cute and throws CC spells everywhere.

It might be worth giving it another shot with a different group or at least a different campaign.

3-4 hour combats are pretty common at high levels in PF1E, though, even if in-game they only last 1-3 rounds.

I hope we get a Pathfinder AP set in Numeria around the release date for Starfinder 2e or even a Lost Omens: Numeria. That way we can use some of that new science fantasy content as a treat as well.

Great to see, but please for all that is holy, don't use that cop out of "If they capture a ship they can retire" for why you don't put in a starship economy. Same applies to pathfinder yaknow, capture something big enough and retire. Just make starships comparable in cost to an RV or something if space travel is common.

I was wondering. Have two long running Starfinder campaigns. One is close to five years now. My question I guess how hard will it be to convert 1e to 2e characters. This may not be a thing and for the high level campaign will this be even feasible?

I was wondering. Have two long running Starfinder campaigns. One is close to five years now. My question I guess how hard will it be to convert 1e to 2e characters. This may not be a thing and for the high level campaign will this be even feasible?

Based on the PF1->PF2 change, I would recommend that you finish up those campaigns whenever they wrap up and make new characters for the new edition.

If nothing else, there's going to be an issue where "many character options (even top level ones like "class") are simply not available yet" since they can only print so many books in a year. Like my final PF1 game had a Kineticist in it, we just got the PF2 rules for playing a Kineticist in the last week. You might be waiting a while if one of your characters is like an SRO Evolutionist.

Troy C wrote:

I was wondering. Have two long running Starfinder campaigns. One is close to five years now. My question I guess how hard will it be to convert 1e to 2e characters. This may not be a thing and for the high level campaign will this be even feasible?

Based on the PF1->PF2 change, I would recommend that you finish up those campaigns whenever they wrap up and make new characters for the new edition.

If nothing else, there's going to be an issue where "many character options (even top level ones like "class") are simply not available yet" since they can only print so many books in a year. Like my final PF1 game had a Kineticist in it, we just got the PF2 rules for playing a Kineticist in the last week. You might be waiting a while if one of your characters is like an SRO Evolutionist.

Thank you. Thats kinda what I was thinking because some of my players have some wild/weird characters.

Well I love PF2e and the three action economy, but I hope we don't lose the feel and uniqueness of Starfinder in the rush to make it compatible.

For one thing currently Starfinder has more limited magic, only up to 5th level spells. For another right now we use stamina and RP points in Starfinder. I understand that there are Pathfinder variant rules for this, but Starfinder is built around it, including class abilities relying on use of RP. I can already see how they are trying to change Soldier so it doesn't overlap with Fighter, and I'm not sure I like it. Fighter isn't designed to use technological weapons, and now Soldier is only designed to use AOE weapons.

There is a lot to gain here, but also a lot that could be lost.

1) they’ve stated all Casters will go to 10th

2) Stamina and Resolve *may* remain baseline but most likely will become an optional rule just like it is already in P2

3) they updated the Soldier Fieldtest to alleviate that concern somewhat, I would check Thurston Hillman‘a posts ^w^

Didn't he say though that they don't update the old fieldtest documents though or am I confused?

Didn't he say though that they don't update the old fieldtest documents though or am I confused?

I believe you are correct. They appear to be a snapshot of what the Starfinder team is working on, mostly for transparency, and not a playtest officially seeking feedback. But they do seem to be taking some of the feedback from the Forums.

CorvusMask wrote:

Didn't he say though that they don't update the old fieldtest documents though or am I confused?

I believe you are correct. They appear to be a snapshot of what the Starfinder team is working on, mostly for transparency, and not a playtest officially seeking feedback. But they do seem to be taking some of the feedback from the Forums.

Which is why I suggested looking at Thursty’s posts ^w^

Specifically this one.

Driftbourne wrote:

CorvusMask wrote:

Didn't he say though that they don't update the old fieldtest documents though or am I confused?

I believe you are correct. They appear to be a snapshot of what the Starfinder team is working on, mostly for transparency, and not a playtest officially seeking feedback. But they do seem to be taking some of the feedback from the Forums.

Which is why I suggested looking at Thursty’s posts ^w^

Having read all his comments, the problem becomes remembering which one said what.

In this interview Thursty he talks about how the field test was created and what they are.
Glass Cannon Starfinder 2E Interview.

I for one am completely excited for the coming of SF2e (as I've said previously maybe with this I'll finally be able to create my Pathfinder/Starfinder crossover adventure path). I recently recovered several of the adventure "titles" I had worked up, and as someone stated about the recent "Drift Crisis" SF APs my crossover idea is definitely an homage to those yearly comic book events that I loved growing up as a kid. So for that reason alone I am completely and totally stoked for SF2e!

Oh, I downloaded and printed out the first field test and I really like it. (I'm guessing a future field test might be for the 2e SF Mystic)? I sure hope so.

Oh a related question (although perhaps there's a better place to ask) but I noticed that the SF AP line seems ... almost nonexistent ... is that by design (like are you folks just waiting for 2e to launch and then there will be Starfinder APs again)?

I intend to resubscribe to the Starfinder books and possibly the APs ... but definitely want to wait until SF2e launches (or should I say, closer to its launch).

Regards,

The_Minstrel_Wyrm

this is going to be amazing looking forward to see whats new with the gear spells and vehicles heard rumors it will be combatible with pathfinder 2e if that's true it opens entirely new opertunites for rp

this is going to be amazing looking forward to see whats new with the gear spells and vehicles heard rumors it will be combatible with pathfinder 2e if that's true it opens entirely new opertunites for rp

It’s not a rumor, it was part of the announcement.

I desperately hope this will be good... My group is not the biggest fan of Pathfinder 2e so hearing that Starfinder 2e will just be Pathfinder 2e in a space suit was disapointing...

I'v been trying to get my group to try Starfinder because I thought it looked super cool and fun! The health/stamina system was unique and really cool! And now it is probably all gonna be gone to just be Pathfinder 2e, In space...

It will probably align with Pathfinder 2.1e (The ORC version).

Generally, I'm a little nervous and unsure about all this, but those things are only a stone's throw from excited and interested. So, nervous and unsure, but with some pinches of optimism.

I'm so far not too interested in the cross-compatibility due to it being with pathfinder content. IDK, not a big John Carter or Cowboys & Aliens person I suppose. I mean they're okay, but not really bread-and-butter stuff. So, putting medieval and sci-fi in juxtaposition, it's been done before(ish) and is of limited interest.

I'd be more excited to hear about what in the new edition is genuinely new, as opposed to say an upgrade to an already known system. I mean, I'm not opposed to that being a major part (as I imagine it's a considerable effort), but my eyes are much more focused on "star" rather than "path", if that makes sense. I don't see them as the same and, if they're 100% compatible, then great, but I'd still want sf2 to have it's own identity and bring its own stuff to the table. What's that stuff in this new edition?

Things do sound good for pathfinder folks though, regardless of the unknowns. More stuff plus a (likely) longer life cycle.

SF2 has also made me curious about say 3e? Will we see bifurcation or will things now be lock-stepped? With the products only being 2 years apart, I wonder why this is a better decision than say skipping straight to pf3/sf3?

Maybe one last point that has kind of been skewing my initial reactions, I'm not a fan of some of the kick-it-in-gear / rush-response flavor in some of the media. That just doesn't sound good for "making the best starfinder you can".

Not sure why you would be thinking about a 3e so early.

I agree with the release of SF2 in 2025 I don't expect a PF3/SF3 before 2030.

Probably we will get many errata adjustments and maybe an unleashed/unchained versions with more larger changes (like remaster but without all the name confusion about license change) but all following the base PF2 mechanics that still very good until now.

Not sure why you would be thinking about a 3e so early.

Personally, I don't think 2 years is that long. If we're talking about sf2 today, that's kind of like talking about pf3 in 2 years. That's an easier thing to talk about than say what things look in 10.

Just to be clear though, I think pf3 in 2 years seems early. I think sf2 seems a little early too, but it does have more knowns to gain, and so I think there's more value in it. (Well, this is somewhat arguable as it depends on how one feels about pf2, but paizo generally makes cool stuff, so I'm thinking there's value in it.) Though, I would be super-interested in a couple more novel things to accompany a new-edition, sweeten the pot hehe, things outside of the "conversion bucket". But that's just me.

It seems we might receive some more food this week. At least I hope there will be a stream and new info.

More food, sounds like a field rations test. I hope they stream it too.

No stream in the immediate future.

We have some staff at PAX who will be running some in-person SF2 demos at the event. We're planning our next stream though, and will probably attempt it when folks are back in the office.

No stream in the immediate future.

We have some staff at PAX who will be running some in-person SF2 demos at the event. We're planning our next stream though, and will probably attempt it when folks are back in the office.

Ah ok, thanks for the info ^^.

No stream in the immediate future.

We have some staff at PAX who will be running some in-person SF2 demos at the event. We're planning our next stream though, and will probably attempt it when folks are back in the office.

If you are running a demo at an event outside the office, that truly is a field test. Looking forward to the next stream whenever it is.

Since Karmagator brought up food, not to complain about the taste but we shirren would sure appreciate more options when it comes to field rations. I for one would be willing to play an extra credit for a "Field Ration Virority Pack" Even if all the flavors are still bland at least make them different colors or shapes so there is some choice to be made. Bad options are still better than no options.

Obviously, Starfinder 2 is being built on the PF 2E Remaster. But, how compatible will it be with the Pathfinder 2E Legacy?

Yes, in the same way the PF2e remaster is compatible with legacy content. Everything we've heard says core mechanics will be the same. There will probably be a few odd edge cases but legacy material can probably be plugged in just fine

I agree. Probably the compatibility won't be accepted in PFS games and for some GMs that want to restrict the content to SF2 books only. But for other homebrew games you could use with any PF2 content that you have and want to use.

Some of these changes seem to be incorporating the "streamline and sameify" approaches from 2e. Kasatha have 4 hands but can only effectively use 2 of them. Seems similar to the 2e approach to winged creatures that have wings but can't use them until PCs have access to flight via spells or equipment. From a player perspective, what's the point of being able to play as dozens of species if they all turn out to be pretty similar in how they play? I understand that this is being done in the interest of balance and ease of design but it has a real cost in terms of player customization and the joy of character creation.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Starfinder 2, just balance the game, don't destroy it!

What I mean, is please don't let mathematical balance flatten the beautiful diversity the Starfinder universe blossomed into! In coming online with Pathfinder 2 rules, I fear we will lose the winged races, Large races, and the damage scale for the epic high-tech weaponry that flatly SHOULD BE better than sword and board -sans epic magic, of course!

Also, I for one LOVE the original starship combat feel which, although complex, provides a great tactical feel that is reminiscent of some of the most notable moments in the sci-fi genre. As this is a somewhat optional component anyway, please don't set Enhaced's streamlined system as the default mode.

I see that the design philosophy calls out for balance, but please try to find a way that keeps the universe strange, alien, and different so player races don't feel like a bunch of costumed humans at a convention. Let aliens be Tiny, or Huge, Fly or whatever make them unique. The balance comes from what they trade from being so different and how they react with other races and ships/gear/etc. built for them.

To keep this positive, any who agree please post things you love about Starfinder 1 you hope to see carry over into the new edition.

Hartan wrote:

Some of these changes seem to be incorporating the "streamline and sameify" approaches from 2e. Kasatha have 4 hands but can only effectively use 2 of them. Seems similar to the 2e approach to winged creatures that have wings but can't use them until PCs have access to flight via spells or equipment. From a player perspective, what's the point of being able to play as dozens of species if they all turn out to be pretty similar in how they play? I understand that this is being done in the interest of balance and ease of design but it has a real cost in terms of player customization and the joy of character creation.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Starfinder 2, just balance the game, don't destroy it!

What I mean, is please don't let mathematical balance flatten the beautiful diversity the Starfinder universe blossomed into! In coming online with Pathfinder 2 rules, I fear we will lose the winged races, Large races, and the damage scale for the epic high-tech weaponry that flatly SHOULD BE better than sword and board -sans epic magic, of course!

Also, I for one LOVE the original starship combat feel which, although complex, provides a great tactical feel that is reminiscent of some of the most notable moments in the sci-fi genre. As this is a somewhat optional component anyway, please don't set Enhaced's streamlined system as the default mode.

I see that the design philosophy calls out for balance, but please try to find a way that keeps the universe strange, alien, and different so player races don't feel like a bunch of costumed humans at a convention. Let aliens be Tiny, or Huge, Fly or whatever make them unique. The balance comes from what they trade from being so different and how they react with other races and ships/gear/etc. built for them.

To keep this positive, any who agree please post things you love about Starfinder 1 you hope to see carry over into the new edition.

I love the starfinder lore and can't wait to play with it in a new engine! On a more serious note, I hope to see the the exocortex and drone return (either as archetypes or mechanic class paths like in 1e).

So I hear you acknowledge that balance matters, and that the things you're asking for probably break balance, but to please do them anyway.

So, tiny PC ancestries are all ready a thing, sprites, and poppets are either tiny by default, or can be. and I believe in howl of the wild they will be introducing their first large player ancestry. So those things are already fine.

So I hear you acknowledge that balance matters, and that the things you're asking for probably break balance, but to please do them anyway.

So, tiny PC ancestries are all ready a thing, sprites, and poppets are either tiny by default, or can be. and I believe in howl of the wild they will be introducing their first large player ancestry. So those things are already fine.

Starfinder has quite a few Large races already and I don't want to lose them!

Well, given Starfinder 1e is still going to be a thing, you're not "losing" them.

For 2e, they have made it clear they are starting with a few playable ancestries, and and going to expand.

Large sized player ancestries were not available in the first releases of Starfinder 1e. They might not be available in the first few releases of SF2e. That said, size categories are not nearly the super-powerful thing in PF2e they were PF1e so large creatures are definitely on the table

Zoken44 wrote:

So I hear you acknowledge that balance matters, and that the things you're asking for probably break balance, but to please do them anyway.

So, tiny PC ancestries are all ready a thing, sprites, and poppets are either tiny by default, or can be. and I believe in howl of the wild they will be introducing their first large player ancestry. So those things are already fine.

Starfinder has quite a few Large races already and I don't want to lose them!

What is so umbalancing about Large?

A Large species would have reach and high Strength. That is it. Reach can be their ancestral advantage, like darkvision on a goblin or 30-foot Speed on an elf, and Strength can be one of their ancestry attribute boosts. Without automatic Reactive Strike (Attacl of Opportunity) and with so many ranged technological weapons in Starfinder, reach is not an overpowered advantage.

Likewise, multiple arms beyond two is not so powerful in the three-action system, in which extra limbs do not grant extra attacks. The advantage of multiple arms is spending fewer actions drawing items. Some two-handed weapons are partially balanced by requiring all the hands on a two-handed character, with none left over for shields or spellcasting, but Starfinder 2nd Edition can change that balance point by weakening the weapons slightly.

Or give two-handed weapons a Multihand trait that requires more hands on multi-armed creatures, "Multihand The number of hands required to wield this weapon is 2 on a two- or three-armed character, 3 on a four- or five-armed character, and 4 on characters with six or more arms. If Multihand is followed by a weapon die, such as Multihand d10, then the multihand trait is optional but using multihand increases the weapon dice to the featured size."

The Starfinder team needs to expand the techniques for balance ton handle greater variety. After years of Pathfinder 2nd Edition gameplay, they should have the skills to do so.

So I hear you acknowledge that balance matters, and that the things you're asking for probably break balance, but to please do them anyway.

So, tiny PC ancestries are all ready a thing, sprites, and poppets are either tiny by default, or can be. and I believe in howl of the wild they will be introducing their first large player ancestry. So those things are already fine.

I believe we're getting as many as three: centaurs, minotaurs may be large, and it was just confirmed today that awakened animals can range from tiny to large size.

Large sized player ancestries were not available in the first releases of Starfinder 1e. They might not be available in the first few releases of SF2e. That said, size categories are not nearly the super-powerful thing in PF2e they were PF1e so large creatures are definitely on the table

We had large-sized player options as early as Alien Archive with options like the dragonkin and sarsesians. I totally agree with your point, just wanted to point out that large sizes were actually accessible pretty early in SF1's lifespan.

For my money, the best space combat game is Ad Astra Games' "Attack Vector: Tactical". But it's not for everyone.

I fear we will lose the winged races,

Winged ancestries were addressed in the initial SF2 FAQ. They're not going anywhere, and will be able to fly at first level.

Large races,

PF2 is getting three large-size ancestries in May, so this should be fine in SF2.

and the damage scale for the epic high-tech weaponry that flatly SHOULD BE better than sword and board -sans epic magic, of course!

Well, the damage will scale with upgrades, which is not something that PF2 does without magic. Ranged weapons in SF2 will be better than PF2 ranged weapons, but don't expect a doshko to be better than a greatsword. If they just arbitrarily make all of SF2's numbers bigger, then you can't bring over any PF2 creatures. Being able to have something like a specific fey show up in a home game without SF2 needing to re-stat every last fantasy creature from scratch is one of the advantages.

Also, I for one LOVE the original starship combat feel which, although complex, provides a great tactical feel that is reminiscent of some of the most notable moments in the sci-fi genre. As this is a somewhat optional component anyway, please don't set Enhaced's streamlined system as the default mode.

They've said they're taking their time to do starship combat right, so I wouldn't worry about this. Personally, I'd expect SF2 ship combat to work better, because PF2's level-based DCs are more obtainable than SF1's numbers.

I see that the design philosophy calls out for balance, but please try to find a way that keeps the universe strange, alien, and different so player races don't feel like a bunch of costumed humans at a convention. Let aliens be Tiny, or Huge, Fly or whatever make them unique.

PF2 has tiny ancestries, and I covered flying and huge. Immunities are probably mostly gone, though, because they caused a lot of encounter design problems.

The balance comes from what they trade from being so different and how they react with other races and ships/gear/etc. built for them.

... Not sure how that's actually "balance"? Unless you mean size categories should be balanced by poor accessibility in public spaces and gear being hard to find for them, which I'd disagree with.

To keep this positive, any who agree please post things you love about Starfinder 1 you hope to see carry over into the new edition.

Holographic skin implants, absurd sniper rifle ranges, and Eox's entertainment industry.

... Not sure how that's actually "balance"? Unless you mean size categories should be balanced by poor accessibility in public spaces and gear being hard to find for them, which I'd disagree with.

Very much agree. That was always a misery in Shadowrun whenever it came up for a dwarf or troll character.

Holographic skin implants, absurd sniper rifle ranges, and Eox's entertainment industry.

If Zo! isn't in the game imma riot. Heck I may riot if Zo! isn't in the first book. An entire Zo! book is probably too much to ask for, although...

If Zo! isn't in the game imma riot. Heck I may riot if Zo! isn't in the first book. An entire Zo! book is probably too much to ask for, although...

For a second I thought this was a reference to Clan Lord, an MMO in which Zo (full name Ghorak Zo) is a playable race with some interesting foibles. For example, they tend to get their directions mixed up, so "Zo West" is East and so on. :-)

For my money, the best space combat game is Ad Astra Games' "Attack Vector: Tactical". But it's not for everyone.

mmm chocholate

If Zo! isn't in the game imma riot. Heck I may riot if Zo! isn't in the first book. An entire Zo! book is probably too much to ask for, although...

For all we know the entire book The Gap could be about Zo!s gap years.

There is apparently a Zo!-centric scenario coming up in SFS, and it's tempting me to try and join just to play it.

Well... maybe the Gap is the result of the Gods making the Whispering Tyrant forget he was a super-villain, and he now only knows himself as Zo. And somehow his prior supreme motivation was mystically transformed from ruling the world... to being the best known being in the universe.