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I hope so!

But I'm pretty sure they were cancelled because paperstock and shipping prices skyrocketed, and pawns use a lot of paper and are heavy to ship relative their price.

That, and Paizo seems to overstock things relative to their sales levels.

With the doubling-down on the Wizkids miniatures, and the introduction of the VTT tokens... I sadly doubt it.

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I will happily crowdfund a Pathfinder 1e Core Rulebook rewrite that's the same rules, but rewritten without any legacy Wotsi-sourced verbiage.

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I know it won't happen, but this makes me wish it meant that PF1 items would get errata added to its page that never had things addressed properly, or were hidden deep in forum posts. (e.g., Ultimate Wilderness.)

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ckdragons wrote:

Sorry if this was asked before...

Does this Bestiary allow a 1E GM to run Kingmaker 2E AP at the relative same power level as a 2E GM would use?...

I just posted my review (after some play at low levels), check it out. It's just a bestiary (which includes traps). And not a well-done/balanced one. Expect constant need for GM interpretation and adjustment, even of the statblocks. The non-statblock stuff needs you to do it entirely on your own and is NOT in this book.

I miss new pawns already. I'll have to decide if I want to double up on any (I have them *all*. It's a great product line.)

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Yeah, at this point I see print and PDF as separate products. You wouldn't expect to get a code for a free product with any product in any other store. Only the fact that it's the same content in a different format makes anyone think of it differently.

Except TONS of publishers do give free PDF with physical products, including those purchased in FLGS and not directly. Have you really never encountered Bits and Mortar?

As for other products: Innumerable Blurays come with free redemption codes for streaming. Buying CDs often come come with digital downloads. I've done novel preorders that included epubs as well.

It's not at all uncommon or unusual. Tons of media comes free digital with a physical purchase, and [at least among publishers active in the US], Paizo is in the minority, alongside, WotC, for not doing it.

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SheepishEidolon wrote:
But personally I think the digital store here rather has a convenience problem than a pricing problem: Downloading multiple PDFs could be much more convenient.

It took me literally most of a week to download everything, and I'm *still* in the process of unzipping/renaming it all like a month later.

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Odd. Paizo was already (from my perspective) at the top-end of PDF pricing for books, especially when buying a hard copy doesn't include the PDF gratis like basically everywhere else. This was the single biggest thing that kept me from adopting PF1 until the last couple years of its life.

I understand raising prices. But Paizo really needs to stop being the outlier on "buying the book doesn't get you the PDF". Even if just through your own store and not universally like through Bits and Mortar.

The price drops for the digital maps/pawns is necessary, considering they're not very useful. The pawns are too low-res to print (not that I would -- that's not a very maintainable activity, especially in comparison to the preprinted ones that I already dearly miss getting new ones of!), and don't include the images separated for useful online use. Ditto the maps, which also only come as a PDF rather than zip of image files.

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Richard Lowe wrote:
Not that recent... as your own quote outlines. Beyond that, mountains don't (typically) move much, forests move over the course of decades and centuries (even accounting for increased growth). ...

Even forests would move in the time period. Let's not forget this is a fantasy setting, and that this particular region has strong ties and influence to the First World. Also, my snippet was from a part that also discussed how plants in the area can change easily. So, yes, even forests would move at that rapid pace.

Swiftbrook wrote:
Paizo/Game On Tabletop wrote:

Kingmaker Bestiary for Pathfinder First Edition (Add-On)

Does your group prefer to stick with First Edition? We’ve got you covered with the hardcover Kingmaker Bestiary for Pathfinder First Edition, a 160-page monster and NPC resource that converts the new companions, NPCs, and monsters unlocked by this campaign into old-school Pathfinder First Edition. Play along in the new and updated encounters with this helpful conversion guide featuring back-converted stats for the entire Kingmaker campaign, plus other rules conversions, tips and tricks to run the campaign smoothly. This add-on book is your ticket to playing Kingmaker in classic style.

Game On Tabletop Kingmaker link

(added bolding) Exactly. It indicated more than bestiary. And what's there is "technically" more than just bestiary, but a single paragraph per topic isn't helpful.

Topagae wrote:
Looking to buy the Adventure Path from someone if has a copy from the Kickstarter I can purchase!

Paizo is taking preorders for the official release late October. https://paizo.com/store/pathfinder/adventures/adventurePath/kingmakerap

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Zaister wrote:
Isn't it a bit weird that the Player's Guide contains the complete map of the Stolen Lands? Aren't the PCs are supposed to meticulously explore and map them during the adventure?
Maps reflecting the geography of the region probably already exist before the party sets off. We know where the rivers and mountains are, for example. The maps in the Player's Guide lack any labels or points of interest, and the party's job in this AP is less "figure out where the mountains are" and more "figure out what's in those mountains."

They'd have to be super recent. Part of the schtick about the River Kingdoms is that the rivers are constantly shifting, even within just one or two generations. That's why there are so many wetlands and why hills are so valued, and why the area is so fertile. From Guide to the River Kingdoms (in the section about geography, swamps and waterways in particular): "This constant change means that maps drawn a decade ago may contain significant errors regarding wilderness areas and those from a century before may be all but unrecognizable except for the names of the settlements." [p4] These play into the major meta-plot of the AP (the whole fae part).

No, not at all. Following the tactics blocks gives good flavor and structure to the adventures for how they're suggested to play out for the adventure path. The tactics blocks give the entities personality, even if they were to have the same stat block. It's not about optimization or "always trying to win".

The PF2 module does give tactics there (it's not labeled or separated; it's just paragraphs in the particular room), but they're obviously not all going to be applicable. I haven't checked for morale yet (which is really important in modules 4-5).

The big boss fights in chapter 5 are a good example of where the tactics blocks are necessary. The new one doesn't even seem to note if some of his pre-buffs are included or not in the statblock, or his "always uses arcane strike" is included. So I'll have to verify all the math, defeating the purpose of the bestiary conversion...

The new bestiary blocks also omit the ever-so-useful "Tactics" section, except occasionally to mention pre-buffs.

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CorvusMask wrote:
Anyway, they were pretty clear from start that 1e and 5e bestiaries were just that, bestiaries of the new statblocks (or for statblocks that didn't exist in 5e, thats why we now have zomok in 5e too). Kingdom rules don't really need conversation, you can use original ap treasure for most parts and honestly as I said elsewhere, SKill DCs with some glitches do actually match up between editions. (40 is level 20 dc in 2e, 1e dcs usually go int he range of 10-40. DC for climbing really hard to climb wall in both editions is actually the same :'D )

Nah, I'm not buying it. I spot checked some DCs between the two and the values were pretty different, and I've seen plenty of discussion that PF2 DCs tend to go much higher.

As for "just use 1e treasure", did you miss the part where the new version has hundreds of new pages of content, including an entirely new chapter, which spreads out some of the existing content to higher levels, too? There's no 1e to look at for these.

As for "it was just going to be a bestiary":

Play along in the new and updated encounters with this helpful conversion guide featuring back-converted stats for the entire Kingmaker campaign, plus other rules conversions, tips and tricks to run the campaign smoothly.

There's technically "tips and tricks", but there's the bare minimum. "other rules conversions" is just the traps/hazards (which are just statblocks too). I can also point out that the 5e conversion book is 45 pages longer than the PF1. They could have gone for page parity and fully supported their own game!

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It gets even worse. I've been randomly comparing PF1 original to PF2+Bestiary and there are whole monster changes, like the one big memorable monster, the Zomok. The 2e version replaces it with a Sard -- which doesn't exist at all in the PF1 Bestiary. If there's one thing missing, there's probably more.

Edit: I guess it's in the PF1 Bestiary 2. So anything that's in any of the bestiaries appear to be omitted. Carbuncle was in the original Stolen Lands bestiary chapter, but was reprinted in B3, so omitted from the Kingmaker 2e PF1 Bestiary. Still weird they changed one of the key monsters that was kind of "highlighted in the art" and very memorable ("it's a plant dragon!") with something else

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As someone who got it hoping finally to have a paper copy to use to play PF1 (since the PF1 6-chapters have been out of print for forever; and because I liked the idea of all the added side quests and 7th chapter)... It does not meet that goal. The PF1 conversion guide is basically just monster/trap/NPC stat blocks. There are only 4 pages (minus 1.25 pages for images/renamed monsters chart -- so 2.75 pages of text) in the PF1 book that isn't statblocks.

  • -There's NOTHING on converting skill checks and DCs.
  • -Treasure is a paragraph that says, basically, "do it yourself".
  • -Even the statblocks have a disclaimer that says "YMMV, we are only giving a brief try".

Sadly, I have to give this an F at being a useful PF1 product. I'd have to spend way more time doing a conversion than I'd like to. Which is made all the worse because the majority of it had already existed as PF1 content!

Sure, I have access now to the PDFs of the PF1 chapters... but I run from paper. If I were happy with the unpleasant experience of reading and running an AP from PDFs, I wouldn't have bothered with this in the first place. The whole point of buying was for having books.

I guess I'll try to find a place to print the PDFs and start on a massive conversion project? Or maybe convince my players to do another AP instead of the one we all want to do. I guess at least I was able to get pawns and maps?

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Why weren't these just in the book to begin with? Seriously -- was it not ready when the book went to the printers? Were 22 pages out of the budget to go into the book? If it was written as "part of the book", but cut for some weird meta-puzzle, that's pretty feels-bad for everyone (aka, most people) who don't get all in on "puzzles" like that. It looks like this is the conclusion of a seriess of mini-adventures that are in the book? I know if I'd purchased an adventure and the ending were not included.

Maybe I just don't "get" it. The board game Gloomhaven did a similar thing where a major part of the content was excluded from the game box behind a meta-puzzle and then provided as a downloadable thing (and, for board game pieces, print-and-play doesn't work so it was even worse than this, that's just another adventure you can work in.)

I'm also glad "web enhancements" have largely gone away.

Hm, thank you -- that helps me find the FAQs, but I still can't find the errata documents.

EDIT: I guess much of it is here: https://paizo.com/pathfinder/rules/downloads

But I could swear Wilderness had an errata document? Guess not.

The PF2 errata/FAQ pages seem to have replaced the PF1 ones. Where can I find the FAQ/errata/"free downloads page" for PF1 content?

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NielsenE wrote:
Its also part of the pivot/strategy, I think, of avoiding "GM-only" books and trying to ensure all books are marketable/interesting to players and GMs.

Meh. That just makes it harder browse/find/remember-where things. PF/SF being completely OGL with online reference helps that a little bit, but not entirely.

Leon Aquilla wrote:
Since when does the success or failure of a franchise depend on how many Bestiaries they make?

It's often a side of troubles when companies go canceling long-running lines of products, which this post and thread has lots of. (I wish they'd said for Pawns instead "paused until paper and shipping issues make it affordable again", or if they truly thing it's a worthless product.)

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Aaron Shanks wrote:
There are no more Bestiary or Alien Archive books planned. There will be new creatures. There are no plans for new pawns. Paizo is keeping the basics in stock for as long there’s enough demand.

EEK! I didn't know Paizo was doing that poorly. I thought Starfinder was being moderately successful.

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AKA_Kira wrote:
Saddened to see the sunset of the pawns line, as that was one of my favorites, I like having the mini's available for the exact bestiary entry. I had even recently suggested that Demiplane add the pawn box numbers next to their monster entries. I do a mix of digital and physical. Digital maps physical pawns for players and monsters.

It sounds like you work like I do. When I don't have a printed map that works, and it's too complex to draw out on a grid, I have a TV that goes flat on the table that becomes my battlemap (and use pawns on it).

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Leon Aquilla wrote:
While this -is- true, I would like to see Paizo take a more active role in supporting VTT's if that's the direction they're going to go at the expense of traditional living room play. Supporting the folks developing the Pathfinder 2e module in Foundry is a good start. I would like to see the same extended to Starfinder.

The best way for Paizo to go for supporting VTT use is to sell the high-quality images themselves. Such as for the Pawns lines, you'd be buying a zip of PNGs. Then you can use them with any VTT of your choice (including offline ones like MapTool). Paizo wins because it's less work and they get a bigger cut (without "marketplaces" taking more out), and we win by not having vendor lock-in.

(I will never buy anything that is VTT-specific or otherwise DRMed or vendor locked-in. And Roll20 technically allows a vendor to check "allow download" or something like that, but it's such a pain and one-at-a-time that it may just as well not exist.)

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redeux wrote:

Well, this certainly clears up any confusion about whether or not there will be future PACG products. ... Sure, we had our guesses but officially we were left in limbo for over a year.

Regardless, thanks for bringing one of my favorite games of all time.

Agreed. PACG was one of the most fun experience outside of RPGs ever, more than most board games most of the time. A few of the scenarios weren't so hot (like B, and any of the Army ones in Wrath), but it was still fun. Alas, it's over. Lone Shark's Apocrypha didn't cut the same way. (Well, neither did PACG 2e for that matter, but it was still good; just not as good as PACG 1e.)

But it was clear Paizo got in over their heads: they stopped even providing character sheets or card lists. And the way it was sold seems to have burned them and their retailers. It was boom and bust too much. A flood of things, then not much. And then a sudden return.

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Dancing Wind wrote:
I'd like to have something that was able to be printed to the standard 1-inch=5-ft scale, on a 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper, in black and white as well as color.

There's TONS of this available through various artists on Patreon and dtRPG. Already scaled, with cutlines and everything. Some of them even produce cutfiles for luxurious people with "Cricut" type devices. Some of them even do polls for what to do next or accept commissions. Many of them even use PDF layers to let you customize them.

There are almost no other players in the readymade pawn space where you can just buy and use. Paizo was the dominant force there. D&D had a small entry (but not nearly as nice), a couple very pricey acrylic ones.

Kobold Games has done a few. PEG has done a few with their Savage Worlds kickstarters. Monte Cook did one. There are a couple premium, expensive plastic ones out there (largely Kickstarter-funded). But even they aren't as nice to use and store as PF Pawns.

[Sorry for verbosity. I really am a big fan of the line and have tried them all out! Pawns were the main thing I was still buying from Paizo anymore other than a few ultra-cheap PF2 supplements when they go really cheap that I can use for lore, but otherwise I'm just backfilling missed PF1 content on Ebay since the POD project is going so slowly.]

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Yoshua wrote:
I think it would be smarter for them to make it a purely PDF product for people to print it out and they provide the art. Not hard to put them on card stock or foam core and make our own pawns and they wouldn't be out the cost of producing physical products.

No. Printing is pretty much useless. Who has access to a printer? Or wants to spend all that time? And there's TONS of competition (and GREAT ones at that) in the space for ready-to-print standees.

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Nameless Henchman wrote:
I'm curious if there's going to be anything to replace the pawn line. As cool as the Pathfinder Battles minis are, they're much more cost prohibitive for a lot of people.

Yeah. Miniatures have major STORAGE and "find what I need" issues. Pawns were perfect!

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NOOO! Why the cancellation of Pawns? It's your BEST line!!!

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It looks like the player's guides aren't catalog items to add to our downloads list anymore. That's a little bit of a back-slide in usability. (I appreciate the option to download without, but it's nice to have things together in the downloads page too.) Any thoughts?

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I really hope Pawns aren't dead. It really is my favorite of Paizo's product lines. I hope it's not a switch to plastic over paper. I find the plastic ones, and basically all the competition (I've tried all I've found) inferior to Paizo's.

While not a subscriber (I buy from stores), I have every product in the line, and regularly use from them. Even the APs I've never run. Even the PF2 and Starfinder ones though I play PF1.

Paizo hit it right with this line. Uniform layout (rather than "cut tight to art"), no need for double-sided art, easy re-use of art they'd already commissioned for other uses. The perfect paper quality for the item. The solid-color white background that made the art pop well. The numbering system so it's easy to find and sort [except those 2? boxes that skipped that for some reason!]. The multiple color bases for identifying figures on the table even more easily.

And then the AP-specific collections was ideal for those running the paths!

:fingers crossed: that this is just a reorganization of how it's sold and not a cancelling or major change to the line.

I know it's "legacy product", but any chance of backfilling to PF1 spell/battle cards? Especially since it's a complete product now without new spells being added. Preorder only even? Just one big SKU for all of them? Whatever makes it most likely to happen.

This did get resolved. The CSM had to place the order on my behalf with saved card info. (This was due to Humble Bundle physical discount coupons not applying properly.)

I've emailed customer.service@paizo.com a couple times for an issue, and I have not gotten a response (other than the automated "here's your ticket number" [most recently 158410]). I hate posting here about it, but it's timely, as it's about a coupon that's set to expire at the end of the week.

Hopefully someone in the community team sees this and asks for an escalation or something for me, please?

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Congrats Jim. Good luck! Hopefully you can help to get the company back on track.

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How well does this AP upgrade to PF1? Is it harder than most because of being more dungeoncrawly?

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Probably going to have to get this one even though I use PF1 and don't really like PF2. Hopefully Alkenstar's material will stand up and isn't PF2-ified too much. (PF2-ified meaning: all "too weird" with everyone being odd species and odd classes, stuff like "shoot while midair to jump again", and whatnot. Anime-absurdism.)

Definitely like the "suggested" table. Other posts indicate this is new? I don't remember seeing it before, but I haven't looked at the AP player guides in quite a while. Good stuff.

I'm still learning Starfinder [slowly, my group may or may not ever try it -- this book may be the one that pushes me toward it, since I want "space fantasy" and not "scifi with magic"] and interpreting this through a Pathfinder lense... But reading Acid Puddle, it sounds like a no-brainer always to take it over fireball. Is Starfinder generally amped up that much over PF? Or acid (and hardness) more resisted? Or SR avoidance less important?

In Pathfinder, if it were straight-up Conjuration (no SR) Acid damage -- no other changes from Fireball -- I'd consider it pure upgrade. But this also has its duration. The reduced range rarely matters, and the flat 6d6+n2d6 is the same to better than Ld6.

Appeared today:
Pathfinder Adventure Path #62: Curse of the Lady's Light (Shattered Star 2 of 6)(PF1)

I always did wonder why Paizo kept partnering with Q-Workshop, makers of the ugliest dice in the industry. None of my groups ever were even slightly interested in any of their dice.

I see the list of available POD titles has changed.

It's disappointing that apparently we need to just look regularly.

Hopefully link works for others:

https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com/browse/pub/5549/Paizo?src=fid100114& filters=0_0_0_0_100163_0&page=1&sort=4a

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Tonya Woldridge wrote:

Could you please explain why my post was removed from this thread? Sorry to post in the thread, but the Paizo forums don't appear to have DMs. I had no personal attacks. I had no advocation for slavery. I kept my post related to Golarion.

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Fergie wrote:
For example, no one considers mandatory military conscription slavery.

I'm sorry, but no, you cannot say that becoming property of your government and being able to be sent anywhere, have anything done to you (up to and including death, but absolutely including medical experimentation) is not slavery.

Just because the owner is a collective or abstract entity rather than an individual with a face consisting of two eyes, a nose and a mouth, does not mean it is not slavery or ownership of another being.

Any attempts to try to say "conscription is not slavery" would be very much akin to trying to defend slavery as not the reprehensible, evil act it is. Owning others and denying them their will is incompatible with a good existence. That does not change whether the owner is a person or a governmental body.

Ibid prison labor.

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The four I ordered arrived today. Three (Thieves #1; Return of the Runelords #6; Paths of Prestige) are fine and exactly what I expected.

Paizo PODs book from dtRPG: good quality. Slightly lesser binding than the mass printed ones, but only nominally, just a couple bucks. Only nominal color calibration differences. Biggest difference is the paper of the leaves being "paper" rather than "glossy coat". I prefer reading on the matte, they just may have less durability. But it doesn't feel like that big of an issue.

The Worldwound has some errors though. The spine is printed with "STRATEGY GUID", and the TOC has some missing characters ("Chapter Two: dventures in the Worldwound" [capital A is missing, but space for it is there]); likely from the layout file. It's not a big problem by any means.

I'm happy to continue getting POD for the rest of my books to fill out what I'm missing (mostly Campaign Setting books, and adventure paths I desire) when I don't see a reasonably-priced, readily-available copy of the mass printing on ebay/etc.

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Mark Moreland wrote:
We will not be changing the editorial content of the books, but reserve the right not to offer a title at all for POD for whatever reason. ... We are currently working on a disclaimer to address this, which will be added to all POD product pages (similar to what other publishers have done for their older material).

Thank you for this statement. It is heartening. I hope the list of items not offered approaches, if not equals, zero. I did just make my first purchase of some of the items in this offering. I'll get more next month. I was surprised to learn I already had a couple of these 'hard to find' items.

I hope the Pocket Editions will remain regular press for a while yet?

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TwilightKnight wrote:
I like this idea as long as the new print is clearly identifiable so as to not affect the value of the original first print.

This will be a problem sadly on eBay. I almost bought a resold DTRPG POD D&D 4e Manual of the Planes instead of buying it directly.

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sherlock1701 wrote:

For Kingmaker, they've gone a different route. It's the next revamped one like Rise of the Runelords or Curse of the Crimson Throne. I don't know how many they're printing beyond what's necessary for crowdfunders (especially of the 1e stuff that they're sadly moving away from), but hopefully it's enough for it to hit stores.

Link to Kingmaker: https://www.gameontabletop.com/cf194/kingmaker-10th-anniversary.html

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I'm not happy about you "chasing whales" with going after the luxury market... but maybe you need to to keep the lights on enough for normal products.

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YAY! It's about time! Now I do wish they'd have done more "all 6 adventures in 1 hardcover" adventure paths (no updates/changes needed), but this will still cover, especially for those APs where only one book is hard to get (Return of the Runelords #6). I managed to get all of the Player companions, but I still have a handful of setting and lots of modules I want to get bound copies of. My PODs from dtRPG I got of a couple Wizards books weren't bad at all.

I do hope Paizo keeps the pocket editions in print though.

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Elfteiroh wrote:
This is made by another company, Demiplane. And Demiplane needs to pay their employees, and probably the license fees to use Paizo's stuff. So there needs to be some income somewhere.

So Paizo needs to finish what they announced (did they ever work on it?) of releasing their stuff directly themselves, tool-agnostically. They said they were going to start including HQ images for VTT use in maps and Pawns. The next step is including appropriately-formated portable files alongside the PDFs so people can import into their preferred VTT, or an open API to confirm ownership on all the various platforms, rather than making cross-listing partnerships with every fly-by-night VTT tool out there.

Regarding "this is made by another company", lots of companies are duplicating, triplicating, reduplicating effort wastefully with situations like this.

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