All for Immortality, HARDCORE MODE! (Inactive)

Game Master Matthais777


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Liberty's Edge

1/2E Sorc 13, HP:93 of 93, AC:16, Touch:12, Flat Footed:14, with mage armor 13hrs F:+12, R:+11, W:+15, Init:+2, Perc:+19

Ok, I can live with the GM call.

Slight retcon then. Assume I delay my action until Teriq dispelled the DD.

Did the grapple succeed?

Teriq, something wierd is going on with the text boxes. Sometimes if I quit and reload the map, the text boxes are in a different location. {shrug} I will try to keep mine correct, but I don't know what is going on with it.

Scarab Sages

NG Elf Oracle 15

Try grouping it with your Icon, so they're treated as one item?
Maybe that will help?

Scarab Sages

NG Elf Oracle 15
GM_Starson wrote:

The man growls in annoyance and turns towards the devil, the sun falling down on him now as he turns.

Let GO.

Concentration: 1d20 + 21 ⇒ (10 )+ 21 = 31

Just a note: The DC of the concentration check to cast a spell while grappled is 10 + the grappler's CMB + spell level.

So for this check, it would be 10 + 16 + 7 = 33

I think the 31 would fail, yes?

And you forgot the -12 for distance on his spellcraft check.
(Which still makes it, but only just)


Plunder and Peril Ship 1 Plunder and Peril Ship 2

True. But I also forgot to include his combat casting bonus, so he still makes it. :)

Scarab Sages

NG Elf Oracle 15

As a side note, given we found some loot.

Both the +4 charisma headband, and the +2 ring would be upgrades for him.

Though the ring would probably be better elsewhere, if needed.

Grand Lodge

Elf 13 | Seeker | Wizard

I will pass on the loot. You're better equipped with it. :)

Grand Lodge

Male LG Dwarf Unchained Monk 13 | HP 134/134 | AC 32 T 23 FF 28 | CMB +18, CMD 38; CMD 40 against grapple | F: +16, R: +16, W: +14 | Init: +5 | Perc: +20, SM: +9 | Speed 60ft | . | Ki pool: 15/16 | Active conditions: barkskin (130min), life bubble (314min), stoneskin(130min or 150/150) DR 10/adamantine; haste 6 rnd, blur.

I will pass on the loot also.

@ GM - Dorje's HP is full because we did not consider that he has stoneskin.

Grand Lodge

Now that everyone has safely escaped that combat, I am going to safely escape this scenario. This isn't hard mode, it's just plain inappropriate.

I am sorry for abandoning my fellow players, but I have some very strong disagreements with GM_Starson's style. Strong enough that I will even encourage the rest of you to leave as well.

There are too many issues to list, so I will just focus your attention on one: spell ranges.

Previous to this post, we had already had questions about distance to target multiple times. GM_Starson was aware of the long distances between combatants and the need to check them. Except he didn't; he killed a PC with an illegal attack.

Yes, he undid the attack when corrected, but the fact that it occurred at all concerns me greatly. Especially when I read the following on his profile:

GM_Starson wrote:

Current Fallen Heroic Pathfinders: 30

+1 transformed into a chinchilla.

Current Fallen Heroic Starfinders: 4

Do the rest of you keep track of your kills?

Do you brag about them publicly?

Do you want to play with a GM who cares enough about his kills to count them, but doesn't care enough about your characters to count some squares before killing them?

Liberty's Edge

Male LG Human Monk (Windstep Master) 4/ Paladin (Tortured Crusader) 2/ Champion of Irori 6 | HP 110/110 | AC 27 T 24 FF 23 | CMB +18, CMD 42 | F: +17, R: +15, W: +17 | Init: +3 | Perc: +22, SM: +16 | Speed 50ft | Lay on Hands 11/11 || Ki Pool 20/21 || Smite Evil/Chaos 1/4 | | Active conditions: Deflect Arrows, Deific Obedience

I'm not going to attack anyone, but I haven't been a fan of how thing are being handled either. Everyone makes mistakes and I get that we are all busy with IRL things, but I do feel like a hard mode seeker scenario deserves more devotion, time, and effort than it appears to be being given.

I'm not sure if our GM is playing or running other games, but I feel like a scenario like this should be the only one your running. The players are all using characters that they haven sunken a lot of time into and are finally able to play a rarely run endgame scenario, it should be a really great experience.

I'm not saying your a bad GM, but I feel like your attention may be too divided right now to run this scenario at the highest level. I suggest trying this scenario again when you have more time to devout to it, but I appreciate you doing your best for the content we have experienced.

Sorry GM, thanks for running what you have run, but I'd also like to stop playing for now. No hard feelings I hope.


Plunder and Peril Ship 1 Plunder and Peril Ship 2

I'm sorry you feel that way.

If multiple people have feelings that they are not interested in continuing, I will not continue this game.

I will admit to being distracted. I recently suffered a nervous breakdown not long after this campaign began which resulted in me having to leave work on short term disability and may result in me being unable to return to work at all. This has left me unfortunately rather scatterbrained and yes, lead to me incorrectly calculating how far on a triangle one is, as math has not ever been my strong suit, and the 3d long distance fighting of this first combat ended up not being good for me.

I keep track of my kills as a scare tactic. I'm an old school GM who believes that people should be challenged and that it's no fun to win a scenario being coddled by a GM who actively tries to keep your character alive. I remember fondly meeting my first GM and being told how scary and deadly he was, and every time we beat a dragon in his campaign he would opine "Welp, I couldn't kill you this time, you were just to good!". Neither he, nor I, actually WANTED to kill any PCs. Any character killed is a tragedy, a loss of something someone cared about and nurtured. But I want you to feel important, impressive, for beating a "Dangerous deadly" GM just like I did when I first learned how to play. Maybe this "Kayfabe" of being a ultra deadly GM is not for you, and I'm sorry if I put you off or made you feel like I was actively trying to ruin your characters. It was neither my intention or want.

As for killing Teriq... Frankly? The only reason that DIDN'T work was because I started the guy off to far away. My mistake kept him alive, not killed him. This is hard mode. My own character died during the course of this mission, and I had to have a wish to bring him back. If you are going to risk hard mode, and risk high level play, part of that is the possibility of dying, and dying badly. If a caster, casting a 7th level spell with the possibility of killing you on a failed save, is to scary for you, I do not recommend you play at this level of play at all, as that sort of thing is par for the course at level 12+.

In the end, I'm sorry I couldn't provide you the kind of scenario and fun you wanted. I'm sorry I wasn't able to be a good enough GM for multiple reasons, and I hold no ill will for you wanting to quit. Best of luck to you all, and I hope you find a GM who is good enough.

Liberty's Edge

Male LG Human Monk (Windstep Master) 4/ Paladin (Tortured Crusader) 2/ Champion of Irori 6 | HP 110/110 | AC 27 T 24 FF 23 | CMB +18, CMD 42 | F: +17, R: +15, W: +17 | Init: +3 | Perc: +22, SM: +16 | Speed 50ft | Lay on Hands 11/11 || Ki Pool 20/21 || Smite Evil/Chaos 1/4 | | Active conditions: Deflect Arrows, Deific Obedience

I have no qualms about hard mode or losing my character as I have lost many already, and I'm sorry about your work situation. I would be more than happy to be a player for you again, I'm just not feeling all the "wait, hold up, does that actually work" moments.

I totally get the 3D space and range. One of the reason I don't tend to play spellcasters is almost entirely because of 3D space usage and weird template ranges on a grid style map.

Dark Archive

Scenario and AP Tracker

Greetings everyone! I am stepping in here (Hope the GM doesn't mind) to try and help facilitate this if you all do in fact wish to keep going. So for now if you all wish to continue let's briefly place this game on pause and discuss what we need to do to get you all on the right track and happy adventurers again.

I am mostly caught up with what is going on. Looks to me like you have succeeded and won the first encounter here. No one died as Teriq's death was pulled due to a mistake earlier in the fight.

With that being said this is a very, very, tough fight and also can be very overwhelming and confusing on the GM's end. Though through it all in the end no one died and during the mass confusion the GM did seem to weigh the rules more onto the player's benefit.

Though if you do wish to discuss and stay let's please keep this constructive, civil and on track. We are not here with pitchforks or a witch hunt.

Also if you do wish to leave and dissolve this game, you can do so with no chronicles as it was still in the first encounter. No harm no foul.

-VL Tyranius

Liberty's Edge

Male LG Human Monk (Windstep Master) 4/ Paladin (Tortured Crusader) 2/ Champion of Irori 6 | HP 110/110 | AC 27 T 24 FF 23 | CMB +18, CMD 42 | F: +17, R: +15, W: +17 | Init: +3 | Perc: +22, SM: +16 | Speed 50ft | Lay on Hands 11/11 || Ki Pool 20/21 || Smite Evil/Chaos 1/4 | | Active conditions: Deflect Arrows, Deific Obedience

Thanks Tyranius. Like I said, I have no problem with the GM and I understand this scenario is likely very complicated. I'm mostly trying to mediate Huritt's post to be a tad less aggressive towards the GM. I definitely think Starson can run this scenario quite well.

Personally, I'd rather everyone make their own decision based on their own personal enjoyment rather than being encouraged to choose to leave or stay by someone else.


Plunder and Peril Ship 1 Plunder and Peril Ship 2
Tyranius wrote:

Greetings everyone! I am stepping in here (Hope the GM doesn't mind) to try and help facilitate this if you all do in fact wish to keep going.

-VL Tyranius

Don't mind at all Lieutenant. A mediator is certainly welcome, though I think I've said my piece on the matter.

Scarab Sages

NG Elf Oracle 15

I can understand all sides of this, and am not a confrontational person in general... but figure I should say something at least.

I think Yajima earlier comment is likely the crux of the matter.

Its a confidence thing I think.

There were errors, oversights, or pertinent information not given, pretty much every round of that encounter... most if it not particularly earth shattering... but it adds up. Whether its distraction, timing, overeagerness, rules knowledge, or something else entirely, I've no idea.

Most of those were pointed out or noticed, after the fact... but the constant retconning to fix them, does not instill one with confidence over a long haul (and gets confusing). The players wont notice everything, nor generally have the behind-the-screen information to know if some things were wrong or not. They have to trust the GM to do so... but after a point, one can start questioning everything.

Not to mention such things can quickly domino, until fixing them becomes overly convoluted as well. It doesn't take much to kill folks, at this level of play.
(ie: If the GM hadn't specifically mentioned OOC that it was Destruction that killed me, after doing so, I'd still be dead (had no idea what the spell was otherwise) ... and play would have continued as if I had... how do you easily go back and undo all that a few rounds later, when literally every PC decision since that point was influenced by it?)

That being said, it is high level stuff, so lots of things going on... but then there's the possibility of concern that it will keep happening... and should players have to monitor the GM's decisions constantly? No one wants that. That would be irritating for both the GM and the players.

Personally, I'm ok with things for the most part (other than that attempt to free fall for free movement... that one really grated). But feeling you having to constantly double check what's happening is a little onerous.

Though given that first encounter... I can't say I'm too enthused about continuing on short staffed in Hard Mode... but given I wasn't too enthused about joining in the first place, that's probably normal =)

Grand Lodge

Male LG Dwarf Unchained Monk 13 | HP 134/134 | AC 32 T 23 FF 28 | CMB +18, CMD 38; CMD 40 against grapple | F: +16, R: +16, W: +14 | Init: +5 | Perc: +20, SM: +9 | Speed 60ft | . | Ki pool: 15/16 | Active conditions: barkskin (130min), life bubble (314min), stoneskin(130min or 150/150) DR 10/adamantine; haste 6 rnd, blur.

I completely agree with Teriq.
There was a moments when I did not know what I can see and what not, who was the enemy on the map, and so on.

I just know one thing, I wanna play All for Immortality series but not in HARD MODE if possible.

Grand Lodge

Elf 13 | Seeker | Wizard

I will post my full opinion this afternoon after work.

TL:DR- I have no problem with the game or the decisions of the GM.

Grand Lodge

Elf 13 | Seeker | Wizard

I think the difficulty of all seeker scenarios require much finesse to full off. This is my first time playing something this high level on the forums, and to be honest, I am quite impressed. To be able to pull off such a hard encounter from a mechanics perspective, isn't easy. There were so many moving pieces, and I think it was handled rather well. The combat ran smoothly and quickly, and we didn't spend much time simply "waiting" for decisions to be made.

I understand that some of the mechanical rules were overlooked, but none of us are perfect. If you expect a perfectly executed game, it is my honest opinion that you will never find out. Especially not in PbP and on this medium. Distances for spells are always hard, and yes it would have been better if the GM had a better grasp of spell distances and their calculations, but that is why we are here - to comment and keep him honest when things go wrong. Which we did, so I don't see what the problem is.

With regards to Hardmode, although I agree that the extra challenge warrant some form of mental decision on the players side that they are willing to lose their characters participating, I also think you need to be able to justify the enemy actions as to why they would make certain decisions. I never felt like the enemy actions were unjustified.

Regardless of the outcome, the DC 34 fort after reroll would have saved Teriq from being vaporised. Destruction is a scary spell, and rightfully so. To be honest, with high level play like this, it would have been better to let the player roll of his fate, rather then rolling and asking for a reroll after. DM, you say you want to give the players a chance, so let them roll for their own merits when it comes to life and death saves.

I am not sure, if it was the lack of attention to detail, or the speed at which we were playing - but I feel like this was the only thing off with this game.

I feel like some GM's brag about their games just as much as some players brag about their characters. There is no shame in that - it is a personal decision. Personally, I keep a record of all of my player deaths and kills - because they are just that - memories. I further agree with GM Starson, if you don't have enough PP for a wish to bring you back, then you shouldn't be risking that character. Just a personal opinion, that's all.

----

I am sad to see this awesome group dismantle, if that is the case. I was having a lot of fun with your characters. We had a really good mix, and I am disappointed that we couldn't work things out.

I had a lot of fun, and I was looking forward to this series.

Thanks everyone.

Liberty's Edge

1/2E Sorc 13, HP:93 of 93, AC:16, Touch:12, Flat Footed:14, with mage armor 13hrs F:+12, R:+11, W:+15, Init:+2, Perc:+19

I am quite willing to continue if we still have a group. If not, happy gaming in the future to all of you.

Liberty's Edge

Male LG Human Monk (Windstep Master) 4/ Paladin (Tortured Crusader) 2/ Champion of Irori 6 | HP 110/110 | AC 27 T 24 FF 23 | CMB +18, CMD 42 | F: +17, R: +15, W: +17 | Init: +3 | Perc: +22, SM: +16 | Speed 50ft | Lay on Hands 11/11 || Ki Pool 20/21 || Smite Evil/Chaos 1/4 | | Active conditions: Deflect Arrows, Deific Obedience

If we have more people staying than leaving, then I'm more than happy to continue.

Dark Archive

Scenario and AP Tracker

I will leave that all up to you guys and your GM. Possibly do a roll-call on who is staying and who is leaving.

Looks like there are moments where it needs to be conveyed a lot clearer on everything that is happening. I.E status of light, height people are at, ect. PbP is a difficult medium to convey all of that quickly sometimes as it would be an instant in realtime.

When going forward just convey what you are looking for to be kept up to date on from the GM. GM Starson is very responsive and will gladly work with you. :).

Liberty's Edge

Male LG Human Monk (Windstep Master) 4/ Paladin (Tortured Crusader) 2/ Champion of Irori 6 | HP 110/110 | AC 27 T 24 FF 23 | CMB +18, CMD 42 | F: +17, R: +15, W: +17 | Init: +3 | Perc: +22, SM: +16 | Speed 50ft | Lay on Hands 11/11 || Ki Pool 20/21 || Smite Evil/Chaos 1/4 | | Active conditions: Deflect Arrows, Deific Obedience

On readied actions, here is a feat that should clear up some confusion.

Scarab Sages

NG Elf Oracle 15

I'm still willing to go on... as I'm pretty sure you guys will be forced to stop if I don't, as the only healer type. Though a man short is not encouraging.

Though none of this has removed any reservations.

From what I've been told, Hard Mode only changes one encounter in this scenario... it should *not* change the way the entire thing is treated by the GM (nor should that be implied, as it has been many times so far).

'It's Hard mode' is not a valid excuse. (well, except on that one encounter, I suppose)

Grand Lodge

Male LG Dwarf Unchained Monk 13 | HP 134/134 | AC 32 T 23 FF 28 | CMB +18, CMD 38; CMD 40 against grapple | F: +16, R: +16, W: +14 | Init: +5 | Perc: +20, SM: +9 | Speed 60ft | . | Ki pool: 15/16 | Active conditions: barkskin (130min), life bubble (314min), stoneskin(130min or 150/150) DR 10/adamantine; haste 6 rnd, blur.

I am willing to continue.


Plunder and Peril Ship 1 Plunder and Peril Ship 2

@Ras, I understand how you feel on that one, and there was a reason I was pressuring so much for him to reroll... but, without the ability to identify the spell cast because he couldn't in that instant, it would not be following the rules to just tell him that the spell was lethal one. Despite that, I think I did a pretty good job of leaning hard and making it very obvious that it would be a good idea to succeed on this save without explicitly telling what the spell is, just that it was VERY bad. I did this because the reroll can only be used BEFORE you learn the results of your roll, something people frequently forget. Had he had something else that would come fairly into play, I would have course let him use it, or retcon if it was something he could do after the knowledge of what happened.

@Teriq, I will be upfront with you, "It's Hard Mode" changes nothing other than what is stated in the mission, making certain fights more difficult. However, it does change how I treat the encounter, in that the baddies are much more likely to play dirty by casting kill spells or using special abilities rather than let you beat them up so you can get more of the story.

I would not continue a man short unless you absolutely want to. The fights coming up are even more brutal than this one, (If, in my opinion, WAY less complicated and headache-inducing to run) We just finished the first battle and would be fine with allowing someone to pick up Huritt's place if you so want to. This is again, up to you guys.

Grand Lodge

Elf 13 | Seeker | Wizard

Why couldn’t we identify the spell in that case?


Plunder and Peril Ship 1 Plunder and Peril Ship 2

At that time, the baddy was in the zone of deeper darkness and Teriq could not see him actually cast the spell, and per spellcraft "but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast," to identify it so no spellcraft check to identify the spell cast.

Grand Lodge

Elf 13 | Seeker | Wizard

So taking a double take at this, I see that you are correct.

But I have also noticed something else. Destruction requires a physical 500g worth Holy Symbol that a components pouch cannot account for to cast. Ras specifically was looking for a holy sumbol that he did not have, from your post. So how was the boss able to cast it?


Plunder and Peril Ship 1 Plunder and Peril Ship 2

He's an oracle. Apparently, Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells with a divine focus. It's right in their spellcasting features. Took me by surprise to!


Plunder and Peril Ship 1 Plunder and Peril Ship 2

Also, I realize that it's a "Focus" not a "Divine Focus" but since the scenario says he has that spell and uses it, I figure it's an error on the writers part, either that the spell should be a "Divine Focus" so he doesn't need one, or he should have the piddling 500 gold focus holy symbol of an outer god that the scenario writer forgot to give him (Would not be the first time i've seen that). Since he's an oracle, I went for the prior cause it felt more thematic and thought it might be a good tip to his class, but if it would make you feel better about it it's no problem to include the holy symbol with since it's clear he's meant to be able to cast the spell.

Grand Lodge

Elf 13 | Seeker | Wizard

I have to argue the latter here, becuase the class specifically says that Divine Focus only includes the DF component of the spell. destruction does not have a DF component. It is a F component worth 500gp which is distinctly different.

Just becuase an author has wrote a spell into a scenario, doesn’t mean things can use it. Again, we are all seasoned GMs here, and know of countless scenarios where this has happened. But this is an argument of RAW and RAI, which let’s not have it here.

I am happy go keep playing, as I said, I’m excited and fine with all decisions made.

A question to the other players, what would need to change, from either side, for you to be okay with continuing?

Liberty's Edge

Male LG Human Monk (Windstep Master) 4/ Paladin (Tortured Crusader) 2/ Champion of Irori 6 | HP 110/110 | AC 27 T 24 FF 23 | CMB +18, CMD 42 | F: +17, R: +15, W: +17 | Init: +3 | Perc: +22, SM: +16 | Speed 50ft | Lay on Hands 11/11 || Ki Pool 20/21 || Smite Evil/Chaos 1/4 | | Active conditions: Deflect Arrows, Deific Obedience

Im up for continuing. How many players do we have without Huritt and are we replacing him?

Liberty's Edge

1/2E Sorc 13, HP:93 of 93, AC:16, Touch:12, Flat Footed:14, with mage armor 13hrs F:+12, R:+11, W:+15, Init:+2, Perc:+19

I am still willing to proceed.

Grand Lodge

Male LG Dwarf Unchained Monk 13 | HP 134/134 | AC 32 T 23 FF 28 | CMB +18, CMD 38; CMD 40 against grapple | F: +16, R: +16, W: +14 | Init: +5 | Perc: +20, SM: +9 | Speed 60ft | . | Ki pool: 15/16 | Active conditions: barkskin (130min), life bubble (314min), stoneskin(130min or 150/150) DR 10/adamantine; haste 6 rnd, blur.

I am also willing to proceed.


Plunder and Peril Ship 1 Plunder and Peril Ship 2

Teriq, how do you feel? If your honestly not feeling it, please, don't force yourself to do so. We'll just refind another 2 instead of one, but it is completely up to you.

If Teriq decides they would like to drop, I can move to the 4 player adjustment to make things a little easier, though that may be no replacement for loosing out on your healer and a controller, and i would caution that it might be a better idea to recruit more, but it's up to you guys, just wanted to present the option.

Liberty's Edge

1/2E Sorc 13, HP:93 of 93, AC:16, Touch:12, Flat Footed:14, with mage armor 13hrs F:+12, R:+11, W:+15, Init:+2, Perc:+19

I would prefer to recruit back to full strength.


Plunder and Peril Ship 1 Plunder and Peril Ship 2

Okay, i'll post something in the lodge tomorrow, unless someone has someone specific they want to reach out to.

Grand Lodge

Elf 13 | Seeker | Wizard

After much thought and internal debate, I have decided to pull Ras’al out of this scenario.

Although I don’t see much wrong, I can’t shake the bad feeling I have which has been dwelling on me since Teriqs and Huritts post. I’m not comfortable with continuing with a different group, seeing as the original experience has been tattered.

I appreciate the chance to play, but I think I might stay away from seeker tier games on these forums moving on. I’m feeling that this isn’t the right medium to peruse such high tier games for me.

Thank you all.
- Tealk


Plunder and Peril Ship 1 Plunder and Peril Ship 2

That is more than fair, and I completely understand.

I think it's best for all involved at this point if I dissolve this. I do not think I'll be reattempting it on PBP sadly, at least not anytime soon.

Thank you for those of you who were kind in your evaluation of my attempt, and I hope I did not sully things too much. I hope you might consider my games again in perhaps a less fraught, lower level environment.

Liberty's Edge

Male LG Human Monk (Windstep Master) 4/ Paladin (Tortured Crusader) 2/ Champion of Irori 6 | HP 110/110 | AC 27 T 24 FF 23 | CMB +18, CMD 42 | F: +17, R: +15, W: +17 | Init: +3 | Perc: +22, SM: +16 | Speed 50ft | Lay on Hands 11/11 || Ki Pool 20/21 || Smite Evil/Chaos 1/4 | | Active conditions: Deflect Arrows, Deific Obedience

Sorry to see you go Starson. I have no qualms about playing again in one of your games, even this one again some day, but I wasn't too eager with playing in this scenario to begin with since I have a lot going on right now too (just got into graduate school), but I wanted to help out the other players with a front liner so they could play the scenario.

So either way of staying or going is fine with me, but I do hope you continue to GM games regardless of the outcome of this one.

Liberty's Edge

1/2E Sorc 13, HP:93 of 93, AC:16, Touch:12, Flat Footed:14, with mage armor 13hrs F:+12, R:+11, W:+15, Init:+2, Perc:+19

Ok I understand. Good luck and no hard feelings. I'm sure I will see all of you in one guise or another sometime soon. Luck all!

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