I think Bombard's bonuses should be class features or feats.

[Squiggit]

Rework the style to be more focused around... well, bombarding.

Fundamentally, Bombard's benefits are imo too quality of life focused. It doesn't grant you any new features or inherent capabilities, but does make you significantly more reliable. I think that's useful, but not particularly evocative.

Meanwhile, enemies with high reflex saves denying you access to your core gimmick (suppression) and struggling to properly target if you have melee allies or close quarters scenarios are both just natural points of frustration with the class.

The targeting one is especially awkward as a primary feature because depending on encounter and party dynamics it may not be come up much or at all, which feels really bad as a main subclass feature but better as a natural class feature or buy-in.

I think they'd be better off as class features... or perhaps the safety targeting could be a feat.

[Karmagator]

Class feature for all of it, definitely. The first part in particular is also just too integral to make the Soldier useful against truly dangerous enemies (your level or higher) to be optional. The second part makes it so the Soldier is not a no-go in many party combinations or common combat scenarios, as you said.

Neither of these should be a problem any class has to deal with, much less a core class.

[moosher12]

Level 1 Feat I think would be a good approach. Least for the ability to exclude your allies from your AoE.

Bombard can probably stress the use of explosives from grenades (as well as bombs), and missiles.

[Karmagator]

moosher12 wrote:

Level 1 Feat I think would be a good approach. Least for the ability to exclude your allies from your AoE.

But then it just becomes another feat tax, because all Soldiers will have that problem.

And it would conflict with several feats integral to certain builds already there, such as Ready Reload.

Quote:

Bombard can probably stress the use of explosives from grenades (as well as bombs), and missiles.

That and other area weapons, I assume? Because it would be weird to exclude most of them.

[moosher12]

Valid point on the feat tax. I certainly would not mind if it became a class feature instead. Either way, I think that aspect of the bombard should be available to all Soldiers, one way or the other.

And yes, Area weapons would be apt (as well as splash and maybe Scatter weapons for Pathfinder compatibility)

[Teridax]

Agreed, and in general I'm not terribly convinced about the Soldier's subclasses. Right now I think each one falls into one of three camps:

Essentially mandatory for the class to function properly (Bombard).

Nice to have, but not playstyle-defining and easily made into feats (Close Quarters, Erudite Warrior).

Largely unnecessary power boosts that don't really add more gameplay so much as more raw power (Action Hero, Armor Storm).

I'd also like the Soldier to have multiple two-action AoE fires as a baseline, including one that applies suppression (including on a successful save) and another that lets you exclude allies from friendly fire. Giving the Soldier a third AoE fire based on subclass could be a way to expand their playstyle, otherwise that's just something you could build upon with feats.

[Squiggit]

I think armor storm is a little bit better than that. The average soldier is not interested in sitting in melee range dropping aoes at their own feet, and their kit doesn't really lend itself to athletics checks either.

Erudite's also pretty cool in the sense that it nudges you toward something the soldier wouldn't oherwise do. If suppress on a success became baseline then Oppressive Presence could be swapped out for something cooler too.

[Raxmei]

I have mixed feelings about the targeting part of the Bombard's features. On the one hand it's much needed when your main attack is a particular AoE and it's expensive to do anything else. On the other hand aiming an explosion to exclude specific people is a really hard to impossible feat of arms and most spellcasters can't do it either.

[25speedforseaweedleshy]

soldier already have some feat tax problem

avoid friendly fire should be part of the chassis

a focus fire feat that only target one enemy with aoe attack but apply suppression on success would be good low level choice