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So, I finally decided to take a look at familiars (after a mere 40 years of playing these games) and I like the flavor of the Figment archetype but I can't see what it actually works well for (mechanically speaking):
- The loss of both half a normal familiar's health and improved evasion seems to indicate it's not really viable as a combatant, while
- The available evolutions you can take are mostly melee combat focused.
Is there a mechanically good use for a Figment familiar?
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Scouting - being skilled at stealth and not actually killable is a very useful combo.
You are missing one important detail about the figment, it cannot be killed. Sure it has less HP, but if it is killed it simply reforms after its master gets a full night’s sleep. A normal familiar who is killed has to be replaced after a week with an 8 hour ritual that cost 200 gp per wizard level. So depending on the time and availability of resources the wizard could be without the services of his familiar for quite a while. So while it seem like they are less durable they are actually better suited for combat than it might seem. Unlike a normal familiar if they are killed these is no real downside.
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Because a figment never "really dies" you can use it as a (minor) combatant without really panicking about it's safety. Some of the evolutions like Improved Damage or Energy Weapons can make it slightly better, but it's not going to set a new standard for most powerful companion.
The one thing I've been able to come up that's kinda unique to the figment is making use of the fact that even though it loses Deliver Touch Spells it keeps Share Spells. Cast a spell like detonate on the figment. If you've picked the right energy type with the Immunity evolution the familiar can run/fly in and blow up without harming itself.
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Scouting - being skilled at stealth and not actually killable is a very useful combo.
Okay, but that basically requires the master to keep putting ranks in Stealth and the figment is still limited to staying within 100', which should greatly limit its utility.
I get that the figment is kinda 'disposable/recyclable' but a familiar that probably dies in the first AoE doesn't seem particularly useful: My 'Urban Bloodrager 4 / Fractured Mind Spiritualist 1' has 43hp at the moment, so a 10hp figment isn't likely to survive, well, anything (a 6d6 AoE averages 21 dmg, or 10 dmg on a successful save)...
I guess I'd just prefer a familiar that is more likely to survive the first encounter each day, so the Figment is probably not for me...
I've been thinking about getting a thrush Figment Sage familiar for my sorcerer, who is thick as a plank so needs someone to help with the Knowledge checks. This done by VMC wizard, though it could be a Wasp Familiar as both match her backstory.
As the figment can be as small (it's imaginary, after all) it can live in a pocket until needed for scouting or skill checks, making it safe from combat.
Imaginary Tumor Familiar combined with Die For Your Master.
The size bonus to Stealth also helps even if you don't have ranks in Stealth. Tiny is +8. 100ft is a lot bigger than most people apparently seem to think. A dimunitive familiar is even better at scouting. A Cockroach can bypass most doors/windows as well.
If you want a combat familiar, why even discuss the Figment when you can just take a Mauler? If your fights aren't deadly enough to kill normal familiars(which is surprising to me since I can't stand familiars personally since they get gibbed too frequently), then a Mauler should make you happy.
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The size bonus to Stealth also helps even if you don't have ranks in Stealth. Tiny is +8. 100ft is a lot bigger than most people apparently seem to think. A dimunitive familiar is even better at scouting. A Cockroach can bypass most doors/windows as well.
Most familiars are Diminutive, which is +12 and typically leaves them with a mid-teens stealth score: This is good for a while, but it never improves on its own, so eventually the master will need to invest skill points to keep it viable.
If you want a combat familiar, why even discuss the Figment when you can just take a Mauler? If your fights aren't deadly enough to kill normal familiars(which is surprising to me since I can't stand familiars personally since they get gibbed too frequently), then a Mauler should make you happy.
Not personally interested in a combat familiar, but that is what most of the Evolution options for the figment lean towards, which made me wonder what I was missing (nothing, as it turns out).
As I have a level in the Fractured Mind archetype, the Figment flavor would have been great: Mechanically, it just seems too fragile for my taste (pretty much any AoE will probably kill it for the rest of the day)...
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Suppose you take a thrush figment familiar and get skilled (stealth) as its evolution. Size +12, racial +8, dex +2 = +22 stealth before you spend a single rank. If you desperately want to avoid spending your own skill points on stealth it's compatible with sage, but I'd be happy spending my own on that skill. With perception it has skill focus and Wis 15 (and low-light vision) so it's pretty good there too. It can fly and it can talk to tell you what it's seen while scouting. This is seriously good at its job. Oh, and you get +3 diplomacy and alertness as a freebie. What's not to like?
Or there's a house centipede - it has a +8 racial bonus to stealth without the evolution so it could pick up increased reach with the first evolution point to be an occasional flanking partner instead (a fragile one as you point out). There's other options too with their own positives - petriferns, ioun wyrds, owls, bats, moles, butterflies, cockroaches like Scavion mentions, etc.
With the 100' limit - if you are investing anything in stealth you can have the familiar scout a bit ahead of you, and you can be a bit ahead of the party without losing anything much in stealth. If you're scouting a fixed location it should be possible to work around it easily enough.
If AoEs are a problem and your familiar is not going to be a combat asset then keep it out of sight, in a familiar satchel or similar.
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If you want a combat familiar, why even discuss the Figment when you can just take a Mauler? If your fights aren't deadly enough to kill normal familiars(which is surprising to me since I can't stand familiars personally since they get gibbed too frequently), then a Mauler should make you happy.
Another thread just reminded me of something that is often overlooked... familiars are a valid target for spells like the beast shape and elemental body series (and others).
Using those spells can result in a pretty decent combatant. Similar total strength to the mauler in battle form and a much higher AC. Plus all the abilities and attacks granted by the spell. The downsides are total HP and that it takes an action from the master to cast the spell. The figment also adds whatever you take from evolutions and doesn't permanently die (the main reason few wizards use those spells on their familiars). AoE is still a problem, though.
For having a small purple dragon?
J/K
Ambassador + Figment could be interesting to roleplay for a caster that dumps Cha (the caster's "cool self"; e.g., Hobbes to the caster's Calvin).
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Ambassador isn't that appealing to me due to the range limit its basically in the same spot as you and you penalise your familiars int fairly heavily which hurts skills.
That said there is definate appeal for me in . . .
1) Sage
2) Shapeless familiar (can turn into another animal)
3) Changeling familiar (can turn into a child or teenager of your race). Requires shapeless.
For a literal imaginary friend who know's things you don't. Just imagine someone trying to wrap their head around the concept a construct of your mind genuinely know's things you don't.
Person: "But they're a creation of your mind."
You: "yes and?"
Person: "How do they have a +21 to knowledge nature when you almost ate poisoned berries? They STOPPED you eating them because THEY recognized the berries as poisonous and could give a full description of how and what they're commonly mistaken for then went into the bushes and found a 4 course meal INCLUDING a rabbit they trapped with their + 13 survival. HOW!"
So many possibilities
"Oh that looks nice could you negotiate a better price for me Jenny?"
"Sure"
Imaginary best friend/sibling negotiates you a discount with their high diplomacy skill. Replace for any skill you don't have . . . imaginary friend can tell you all about fashion and make you a nice dress, imaginary best friend has a comprehensive knowledge of how to market your magic items for profit, imaginary best friend takes evolution extra feat - technologist and can tell you all about that fusion reactor (Me? No I don't know anything about nuclear engineering ask my imaginary sister), take ranks in linguistics for a figment that can talk and have it know languages you don't . . .
This is all per the rules so take it to the logical extreme your familiar know's skills you don't (and possibly languages) so it can know things you don't. Therefore it remembers its experiences when it was seperated from you. Familiar chats with person while your in the library reading even after dismissal resurection they remember the conversation but you don't. They can be literally their own person with their own likes, dislikes, memories and desires like a regular familiar.
Turns into a human and drags you to the local carnival because they want to see it and you need to be in 100'.
Now if only I could think of a way to convince a GM to (1) let me take leadership and (2) make my figment my cohort "yes my imaginary sister is a lvl 17 bard that's her performing on stage.". Well that and get rid of the 100' limit and dissapearing on sleeping.
You also have other options if you want to invest the feats . . ..
Polyglot: Talk with animals of its own kind given back to it.
Familiar Spell: Can transfer a prepared spell to it if it can speak it can essentially cast any spell (spell lvl + 3 familiar can retain up to your caster level in spell levels provided no 1 spell exceeds half your level) it casts fireball or see invisibility or create pit . . .
Spark of the uncanny: Any familiar can speak 1 language you know. At 5th lvl can be replaced with improved familiar but that wouldn't apply here unless gm allows polyglot to count for pre-reqs.
Telepathic link: Any familiar with speak with master can now telepathically talk to you up to a mile away. Give it this and familiar spell you can have a familiar ready to cast a spell up to lvl 6 when you give it the telepathic go command.
Then of course there's all the fun things you can do with evolutions e.g a winged cat flying around after birds. Shame there's no pony/horse/mule/donkey on the familiar list or you could have a pegasus but you can have a flying pig with the regular familiar.
My favorite thing to do with a figment familiar is The possessed hand feats because the idea of an imaginary hand to be hilarious. That and with the shared evolution and any fun 1 point evolution in addition to the eldritch guardian fighter equals just an insanely versatile fighter.
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Also, as an aside, how freaking horror movie cool would it look if you combined a Figment familiar with Shapeless Familiar, Changeling Familiar, and Figment's Fluidity? You're out in the market and you spot some hooligans coming your way; you and your familiar have 1 full round before you've got to engage.
Your "little sister" with her cutsie tail plants a foot and as the tail begins to audibly retract into her body she wrenches and dislocates an arm, then reshapes and resets it a bit to give herself Reach instead of the Tail Evolution. Ugh, that image just feels so awesome!
Or if she already had reach and say bait switch tail to tentacle and the cutsie tail retracts into her as this long grasping tentacle emerges from her mouth with another set of snapping jaws at the end or perhaps her entire jaw unhinges and extends.
You can't have improved familiar with figment familiar correct? I can't seem to find the rule regarding that.
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You can't have improved familiar with figment familiar correct? I can't seem to find the rule regarding that.
Improved Familiars don’t get Speak With animals of its Kind. Since figment also replaces Speak With Animals of its kind, you can’t take both.
From speaking with a designer at PaizoCon one year - it was a very deliberate choice to have so many archetypes replace speak with animals specifically to keep the archetypes from being used with Improved Familiars.
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So deliberate choice odd they don't seem that powerful unless your really pushing things.
As always, the questions the designers are asking (and authors of material should be asking themselves) are not "how powerful is it?" but rather "how powerful is it in relation to established baselines?" and "what extreme builds already exist and would this make one of them more powerful?"
In this particular case, the issue is that many Improved Familiars are bipedal with hands, essentially giving them the ability to use any item a PC can. While base familiars are rarely used in combat, many players take Improved Familiar specifically to use them in combat. So if an archetype would make them even better combatants, you don't want to allow that since archetypes are "free" (don't cost the master feats or dips).
Basically you want to give players a multitude of options and avoid giving them a "best" option.
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My 'Urban Bloodrager 4 / Fractured Mind Spiritualist 1' has 43hp at the moment, so a 10hp figment isn't likely to survive, well, anythingWhy are the HP of a familiar being compared to the total HP of an 80% d10, 20% d8 HD PC with any expectation of comparison?
I know you get a familiar. But compare that Figment's HP total to the expected HP of your usual Wizard familiar at the same level.
What exactly do you want from this thing?
It seems like your build is ideal for such a creature...
Yep, my familiar should have a lot of HP for a familiar, but the trade-outs that the figment archetype make just seem to make it too fragile (a 6d6 AoE will probably kill it even if it makes its save): A typical wizard's figment would probably only be slightly less healthy (Assuming a similar 16 con, 6 + (4 * 4) + (2 * 5) would be 32hp for a Wizard 5 and 8hp for the figment familiar (not including FCB).
Honestly, I don't have a 'plan' for a familiar: I've just been diving through the archives looking for interesting options and saw that I could get a familiar either through a pair of feats or by trading out my level 1 bloodline ability, and a Thrush would synergize well with my both my skills (With multiple bonus skill focus feats, traits, and being a half-elf, Taja is really good at Perception, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive despite an 8 wisdom and 12 charisma) and an early Blue Canary In The Outlet By The Lightswitch, Who Watches Over You... idea I had for this character (Basic Idea: She's an abused rage-machine whose better personality traits have formed a 'phantom' that is trying to push her toward 'the light' or at least toward trying to talk things out before raging): Making such a familiar a Figment would fit very well with her 'fractured mind' theme, but as noted, would sacrifice its survivablity in a big way...
If it isn't for combat, don't have it out in the open in combat.
i always seen the figment as a good familiar archtype for witches and any other class that get their spells stored in familiars.
it's never fun when your spell-book is gone and you need to replaces it
figment sorta solve that for them.
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i always seen the figment as a good familiar archtype for witches and any other class that get their spells stored in familiars.
it's never fun when your spell-book is gone and you need to replaces it
figment sorta solve that for them.
Because it is a being of its master’s mind, a figment can never serve as a witch’s familiar, a shaman’s spirit animal, or any other spell-granting familiar, and it can’t use any divination spells or spell-like abilities the base creature has.
You can't have improved familiar with figment familiar correct? I can't seem to find the rule regarding that.Improved Familiars don’t get Speak With animals of its Kind. Since figment also replaces Speak With Animals of its kind, you can’t take both.
From speaking with a designer at PaizoCon one year - it was a very deliberate choice to have so many archetypes replace speak with animals specifically to keep the archetypes from being used with Improved Familiars.
I thought it was something like that. Thanks.
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i always seen the figment as a good familiar archtype for witches and any other class that get their spells stored in familiars.
it's never fun when your spell-book is gone and you need to replaces it
figment sorta solve that for them.I always saw it as a good alternative to
Me: so, if I take a Familiar, are you gonna like, target it in combat?
GM: (with HUGE, EVIL grin on their face) No, why do you ask? Also, does your character have an extra 200 GP lying around, and how do you feel about waiting a week to get that familiar back? Asking for a friend...
Me: so, its a FIGMENT then...
@ the OP: A level 5 Thrush has a baseline of 19 AC, the better of its saves or yours, and 21 HP. A Figment gets 10 HP instead and loses Evasion. A Mauler with Mauler's Endurance gets 31 HP and keeps Evasion.
A CR 5 monster can deal about 21 damage in a full attack round or with a spell. A standard or a Figment could both be slain in one round by a single CR 5 monster. Either you've got a plan, meaning you know you're going to have a combat-focused familiar with the Mauler archetype and Mauler's Endurance for +10 HP, or your familiar is at significant risk of dying in 1 round. Period.
If you're not going Mauler, you're then looking at damage mitigation efforts. Not using your familiar in or near combat is one; keeping Evasion is another. However, if you're not going to let your familiar anywhere near combat, why would it matter if they kept Evasion since, if they can get to Full Cover (again, inside some kind of container like a backpack) on your person and then YOU make the save, they're fine anyway.
So why, exactly, are you concerned with HP? I'd suspect this is from an overabundance of caution; you've been hurt before, or perhaps familiars/animal companions/cohorts of yours or somebody else's you know have.
Remember that familiars don't normally get any ability to wear armor or wield shields. They have fewer item slots than you do and gearing them costs money. To defend a...
It's not familiars being targeted that is the main issue: It's (for me at least) the 'collateral damage' from AoEs that Figments just can't endure with their horrible HP and lack of Improved Evasion...
I mean, the traditional approach to familiars is to just forget they exist until you need them, but that just rubs me the wrong way (as does keeping one in a box until you need it) so maybe familiars are just not for me...
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I think you need to look at the baseline familiar 'Special Abilities' again:When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a familiar takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage even if the saving throw fails.TtB: I'd strongly suggest that, if you choose to continue down the path of a Familiar that you go with a Mauler archetype instead. It won't be a manifestation of your fractured mind but a projection of your anger an rage into a physical form; the feral beast prowling your psyche all the time made flesh.
Any other familiar is going to be too fragile. The standard Thrush familiar, no archetype, has a Ref +4 save before items are used or spells cast on it. A standard CR 5 monster has an AoE effect between DC 11 to DC 15 that might inflict damage. At the higher end of that spectrum, that means that a standard, no archetype Thrush familiar with 21 HP (half of yours) will suffer full avg damage from an AoE over half the time, while less than half the time they'll take no damage.
The standard foe you'll be facing, at CR 5, likely deals about 6d6 damage with their AoE. The avg damage on that is 21 HP. The Thrush will be at exactly 0 HP in over half the situations where its caught in the open and suffers a standard CR 5 AoE attack.
Assuming there is a reflex save involved, anything that would one-shot your baseline familiar will also one-shot you if you fail your save (since it only takes half damage on a fail, you take full damage on a fail, and it has half your HPs). All bets are off, of course, if there isn't a reflex save involved...
Also, Mauler familiars are no more durable than a baseline familiar: They hit harder, but they'll die just as easily (or easier, as they make perfectly legitimate targets).
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Also, Mauler familiars are no more durable than a baseline familiar: They hit harder, but they'll die just as easily (or easier, as they make perfectly legitimate targets).
I believe most people assume that everyone who has a mauler takes the Mauler's Endurance feat.
Improved Evasion does little to keep your Familiar alive since half damage from the AoE will put it down pretty quickly if you aren't constantly keeping up with it's health.
The difference between the Mauler dying is yeah as Belafon mentioned, you can make them substantially tough and ultimately anything devoting it's time to fighting the Mauler is not hurting the rest of your party. It's replaceable, your party members aren't generally.
Keep in mind that the Figment familiar does not qualify for Shared Evolution.
If you're using the SRD then it's easy to be mislead as they've bunched up archetype-specific evolutions into one big list without explaining what they did. Archives makes it clear that not everyone can take Shared Evolution.
Shared Evolution, Extra Feat, and Shared Slot are all restricted to the Twinned Eidolon from the Twinned Summoner archetype.
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Figment familiar also let's you increase the teach of the familiar making them slightly safer when fighting large creatures. Also makes it so tiny familiars don't have to share space to threaten.
The extra nat armor evolution also makes it tankier than a normal familiar even if it has less HP.
Finally, the familiar can gain more attacks than normal. Which is good along with the pounce evolution. Familiars can use Amulet of Mighty Fists to boost their natural attacks afterall. But this option is really hit or miss (literally).
Figments cannot take the pounce evolution.
Manifest Dreams (Su): At 3rd level, a figment is shaped by its master’s dreams. Each time the master awakens from a full night’s rest, he can apply to the figment 1 evolution point’s worth of eidolon evolutions that don’t have a base form requirement. At 7th level, he can apply 2 points’ worth of eidolon evolutions; at 13th level, he can apply 3 points’ worth of eidolon evolutions.
Reach and Improved Natural Armor are good evolutions. Reach doesn't have a prerequisite evolution so you can assign it to an attack the familiar already has. I just wish it would apply to every attack type instead of having to take it multiple times.
The only things (deliberately) keeping the figment from being an above-average combatant is the low number of evolution points and low HP.
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Oh I missed the line of pounce but my statement about multiple attacks remains. An Owl could get a 1 bite, and 2 wind buffet attacks. A cat could get a tail slap and tentacles attacks. Etc.
That's a little iffy. Bite, yes. But the wing buffet evolution specifically states "The eidolon must possess the flight evolution, with wings, to select this evolution." Ditto for tail slap and "the eidolon must possess the tail evolution to take this evolution."
In a home game I'd probably allow it since the familiar does have the appropriate appendages. The only reason the eidolon has to take the prerequisite evolution is because it doesn't. But in a strictly by-the-book campaign like PFS it wouldn't be allowed.
My own idea for a combat figment - once you get to 7th level or above - is to have a familiar with claws. Take Improved Damage (claws) and Improved Natural Armor. Cast beast shape II on the familiar and turn it into a tiger.
A bit niche but it works well for the Swarm Monger druid. Their familiar gets 50% of their master's HP as temp HP when they become a swarm (so combined normally 100% of their total HP, 75% for the figment) which still makes them pretty durable for a swarm, and now they don't care if it dies.
Their ability to gain resistance/immunity to an element can protect them against some of the most common anti-swarm tactics
False Life is your friend for helping to keep a Figment Familiar alive, and it (and the poorly scaled Greater version) are on the Bloodrager and Spiritualist spell lists. You will get it rather late due to the 4/9 casting progression, but you could get it as a Wand (just make sure you get one crafted by a Shaman or a Wizard, to minimize the steep cost as much as possible, and this isn't viable for the Greater version).