White Estrid

Taja the Barbarian's page

2,110 posts. Alias of Darren Rodriguez.


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Shadow Lodge

twiggyleaf wrote:
Greater GoC says the witch can "redirect" the effect to her opponent, so I'm not sure if she should be subject to the damage of the coup de grace (i.e. damage dealt)

The save is separate from the damage, so the witch should still take it.

Shadow Lodge

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Fortitude is a low save for a witch. To use the hex the witch must be subject to the effect requiring the fortitude save. That is limits how powerful the hex really is. Its best use is vs another caster with a poor fortitude save to take out the opposing caster that also has a poor fortitude save. Most of the time that is going to be another arcane caster. Most divine casters have good fortitude saves, which limits its effectiveness vs them.

This will often be a hail marry action for the witch.

Re-read the 'greater' version's text:
Greater Gift of Consumption (Su) (Potions and Poisons pg. 10): wrote:

The witch can more effectively redirect effects to her proxy chosen by the gift of consumption hex. When the witch succeeds at her Fortitude save against an effect that she has redirected to a proxy, the hexed creature takes a –4 penalty on its Fortitude save against the redirected effect. If the witch ever fails a Fortitude save or intentionally exposes herself to an effect that requires a Fortitude save, such as by ingesting a poison, she can redirect that effect to affect ONLY the hexed creature, though the hexed creature can still attempt a saving throw to resist the effects. Once she has redirected an effect to another creature in this way, that creature cannot be affected by the gift of consumption hex again for 24 hours. The witch must have the gift of consumption hex to select this hex.

Did I just fail a Fort Save? I guess that's your problem, not mine...

With a Coup-de-Grace, the witch would still have to deal with the damage, but most other effects can just be pushed onto a foe (provided a 'fresh' target is within range and your immediate action is available) without any other consequences.
You succeed at your Fort Save: Your target takes a penalty on their save
You fail at your Fort Save: You are not affected at all, and your foe still needs to make their save against the effect.

Yep, I can see why this was banned from PFS...

Shadow Lodge

It is worth noting that while Gift of Consumption (Su) is flagged as being PFS Legal, Greater Gift of Consumption (Su) is not and since it doesn't seem to be outright 'evil' or involve any of the banned subsystems (crafting, stamina points, mythic, etc.), this is a decent indicator that it is considered either too powerful or too confusing for Organized Play.

I'm not seeing any obvious confusion issues, so I'm going say this power is just considered to be potentially too ridiculously powerful and GMs might want to think twice about allowing it in their games.

Shadow Lodge

Here's the thing to keep in mind: The Race Builder is just not good. Basically, no one uses it because it doesn't work very well at all, and the game is generally better if you pretend it just doesn't exist.

The 'race builder' examples in the ARG are never going to get an errata because they are just examples of how this system can be used: They are not official PC races, and they don't necessarily bear any resemblance to any official PC race published at a later date.

As published, the ARG Drider PC is Str +4, Con +4, Wis +2. You can certainly not like it, but it is what it is. If the GM wants to change it, that is well within their authority, but that doesn't make the ARG version 'wrong' (or 'right' for that matter) in any way.

Shadow Lodge

Mako Senako wrote:
Azothath wrote:

The ARG Race Builder is clear in the first two paragraphs. It's for GMs or players with GM oversight to create races.

The examples show you what the system can do, it's not a RAW PC race.
So your premise is flawed, Driders are not official or even standard PC races.

The Race Builder can create Home Game PC races or even use the example. APL or ECL is a thing to balance the powerful races out trading levels for race powers. The monster Drow at CR 7 is about 6 levels worth of experience (-1 due to low value equip).
d20pfsrd has Drider 35 RP it references Race Builder. It would seem to be Lvl= (RP -8)^0.5 pts or so with the low end (1-2)Lvls needing consideration/adjustment.

For an analogy - I could follow the Magic Item Creation Table and make things I could claim are RAW but many GMs would sputter. The GM oversight & review is critical to the Home Game process.

= = = ADVICE
Since you are in a high power game, the GM should assign everyone N Levels to play with choosing CR N to N+1 monsters or X number of Race Points. He'll need an unused Lvl & RP to ability score bonuses rule, or use the RP ones to make up the difference for people that didn't use all their points.
d20pfsrd also lists RP for various races.

I don't think you understand my stance on this, i stand with the GM who already ruled the Driders do not get the +2 str bonus from larger size or the -2 to dex. and that the stat block given is intentional. It was the pc who is using the race that is arguing otherwise and trying to get support for his belief. Also, this is a very high-powered campaign with factors I haven't revealed. People's race choices have already been balanced out by the GM, case in point im a actual monster a dragon who has been put through considerable restraints, size locked to medium, and no racial modifiers to boot, as well as being locked out of the Gestalt rules...

As printed, the Drider PC gets the Large size (which costs it 20% of its RP) and all associated benefits/drawbacks.

Source Advanced Race Guide pg. 218

The next step is to pick a size quality for your race. Most races are Medium or Small, which have no prerequisites, but you can also elect to make your race either Large or Tiny with the following modifications at the listed point cost.

Large (7 RP): Prerequisite: Humanoids taking this quality must have the giant subtype; Benefit: Large creatures gain a +2 size bonus to Strength and a –2 size penalty to Dexterity. Large races take a –1 size penalty to their AC, a –1 size penalty on attack rolls, a +1 bonus on combat maneuver checks and to their CMD, and a –4 size penalty on Stealth checks. A Large creature takes up a space that is 10 feet by 10 feet and has a reach of 5 feet.

Medium (0 RP): Medium races have no bonuses or penalties due to their size. A Medium creature has a space of 5 feet by 5 feet and a reach of 5 feet.

Small (0 RP): Small races gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty on combat maneuver checks and to their CMD, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks. Small races have a space of 5 feet by 5 feet and a reach of 5 feet.

Tiny (4 RP): Prerequisites: Aberration, construct, dragon, fey, outsider (native), or plant type; Benefit: Tiny creatures gain a +2 size bonus to Dexterity and a –2 size penalty to Strength. Tiny races gain a +2 size bonus to their AC, a +2 size bonus on attack rolls, a –2 penalty on combat maneuver checks and to their CMD, and a +8 size bonus on Stealth checks. Tiny characters take up a space of 2-1/2 feet by 2-1/2 feet, so up to four of these characters can fit into a single square. Tiny races typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack it in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. Other creatures can move through those squares without provoking attacks of opportunity. Tiny creatures typically cannot flank an enemy.

The GM is free to use a homebrew version of the Drider without these attribute adjustments, but you are outside of any official rules at this point...

Shadow Lodge

Java Man wrote:
The ARG has an example write up for driders, https://legacy.aonprd.com/advancedRaceGuide/raceBuilder/exampleRaces.html#o ther-race-examples

Drider

Type: Aberration 3rp
Size: Large 7rp (+2 size bonus to Strength and a –2 size penalty to Dexterity)
Base Speed: Normal 0rp
Ability Score Modifiers: Flexible (+2 Con, +2 Wis) 2rp
Languages: Standard 0rp

Racial Traits:
Ability Score Racial Traits
Advanced Constitution (+2) 4rp
Advanced Dexterity (+2) 4rp
Advanced Strength (+2) 4rp

Defense Racial Traits
Greater spell resistance 3rp
Natural armor 2rp

Movement Racial Traits
Climb 2rp

Senses Racial Traits
Darkvision 60 ft. —rp

Other Racial Traits
Quadruped (8 legs) 4rp

Total: 35rp

By my count, this version should end up as: Str +4, Con +4, Wis +2 on a species that is pushing up on a +3 level APL adjustment (at low level at least)

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Mako Senako wrote:
They are suppose be picking the base PC race. They aren't building the race.

Well, here's your problem: There is no 'official' Drider base PC race option.

I am seeing a third-party Drider Bestiary Template but templates are not really intended for PCs.

EDIT: There was a Drider option published in D&D3.0's Savage Species volume, which made it into a 10 level 'class' to balance it out.

Shadow Lodge

Yeah, Pyrotechnic Eruption is a 'great flavor can lead to horrible mechanics' spell: If you are on a ship in the middle of the ocean, is the ship's deck the 'ground' or is it the ocean floor two and a half miles beneath you? If you are flying at the edge of space above the Marianas Trench, does a mid-level spell really create a flame that instantly shoots through 7 miles of incredibly dense water and 62 miles of rapidly thinning air to reach your target?

Personally, I'd probably just read 'Ground' as 'Bottom side of the square(s) currently occupied by the target' to make it work more smoothly: The flames always start right beneath you and have no effect on creatures above or below you (unless they try to touch you, of course).

Shadow Lodge

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If we are diverting from the specifics of the original request, the Swashtigator is another decent skill-monkey option:
Start with an emphasis in Dex/Int, take one level in Inspired Blade Swashbucker so you can take Fencing Grace as your initial starting feat, and take Student of Philosophy as one of your traits (unless your party has a 'face' already).
All subsequent levels should be in Empiricist Investigator.

You start as a decent melee combatant, get nearly every skill as a class skill, use Intelligence for Perception, Sense Motive, Disable Device, and nearly any social interaction by level 3, can choose to add a d6 or better to skill checks if you don't like your initial roll, and have a variety of alchemy options to boost nearly anything you want to do. At 5th level, your studied combat + studied strike features come online, boosting your combat performance significantly.

You'll still have to focus on specific skills, of course, but you should be able to cover nearly any skill gap your party might have.

Shadow Lodge

The big thing about the Unchained Rogue is free Weapon Finesse + 'Dex to Damage' for both main hand and offhand, which is just a massive number of early feat slots you can spend on something else.

The likely issues this sort of build will face include:
a) Being a 3/4 BAB class will put you behind the full BAB martial characters, and additional attack penalties can be very painful.
b) You'll need to keep two separate weapons enchanted, which typically means you will be 1 enhancement bonus behind (a +3 weapon is similar in cost to a pair of +2 weapons).
c) Actually getting a full attack from flanking will probably be fairly uncommon given the time it typically takes to set this sort of thing up (the more powerful your party, the more likely your chosen target is to die before you have a chance to full attack).
d) You are likely to be somewhat fragile for a front-liner.
e) You will occasionally encounter foes that are actually (Elementals) or practically (Barbarians/Rogues) immune to your sneak attack feature: If they have a DR you can't bypass as well, you are in for a very depressing fight.

ADDENDUM: I keep forgetting to mention that while the Knife Master archetype gets extra sneak attack damage with the Kukri, it doesn't actually grant proficiency with this martial weapon, so you'll probably need to invest a feat or trait to make this a decent weapon option.

Shadow Lodge

Oli Ironbar wrote:
What advice do we have on using ABP to close the power gap between two casual players who favor melee and an extensively experienced player who prefers full casters?

Play a different game???

Seriously, the martial/caster class and casual/experienced player discrepancies are baked into the heart and soul of this game and nothing* short of changing it into a completely different game will fix this.

*Alternately, I guess you could just set a level cap around 6 or so to keep most caster builds under control, but this is pretty much pushing up on 'a whole different game' as well.

Shadow Lodge

If you are looking at the Twinned Channeling ability, you might need to look at it again:

Source Champions of Balance pg. 30

...
Twinned Channeling: When channeling energy, the envoy of balance can simultaneously release waves of positive and negative energy. She chooses a category of creatures (either living or undead), and this conjoined energy BOTH heals and harms the affected creatures. Roll the amounts of damage healed and dealt separately. Treat the envoy of balance’s effective cleric level as 2 lower than normal for the amounts of damage and the DC to halve damage taken. The envoy of balance can choose whether to include herself in either or both the healing and harming effects. If she has an ability that allows her to exclude targets from her channeled energy, such as the Selective Channel feat, she can choose to exclude different targets from the healing effect than from the harming effect. An envoy of balance must possess the spiritual equilibrium endowment to choose this endowment.
...

This ability really requires the Selective Channeling feat (and a strong Charisma) to actually be useful, and after getting a good enough Charisma and Wisdom for channeling and Spells, you typically won't have enough good stats left over for decent melee combat...

Shadow Lodge

Wrong John Silver wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Wrong John Silver wrote:
I've been thinking about using PF1 in an OSR way. And that led me to wonder: what happens to the martial-caster disparity if metamagic rods just don't exist? What if you can't find them, can't buy them, can't make them?
Is this idea coming from 'personal experience' with these rods, or just from seeing them on the item lists?
Two things, mainly. First, every build for a caster I see involves a time of "just add metamagic rods," and that regularly suggests to me that they're too important as part of a build, and thus improving diversity in the space involves banning them. I wanted to be sure there wouldn't be some unforeseen effect from doing so.

Like I said, metamagic rods aren't really that common in actual battle (in my experience, at least) and banning them won't really impact game play at all.

Wrong John Silver wrote:
Second, I greatly dislike the magic mart and will not allow the simple purchase of magic items (except for some low-level potions and scrolls). However, I'm aware how Wealth By Level expects the ability to convert gold into magic items without issue.

Keep in mind that the 'Magic Mart' is generally limited to items of a certain value or less, so you literally need to go to a metropolis to have a 75% chance of finding a lesser empowered rod to purchase:

Community Size: Base Value
Thorp (<=20 people): 50 gp
Hamlet (21-60 people): 200 gp
Village (61-200 people): 500 gp
Small town (201-2,000 people): 1,000 gp
Large town (2,001-5,000 people): 2,000 gp
Small city (5,001-10,000 people): 4,000 gp
Large city (10,001-25,000 people): 8,000 gp
Metropolis (25,001+ people): 16,000 gp

Shadow Lodge

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Wrong John Silver wrote:

...

Second, I greatly dislike the magic mart and will not allow the simple purchase of magic items (except for some low-level potions and scrolls). However, I'm aware how Wealth By Level expects the ability to convert gold into magic items without issue.

The point of the 'magic mart' is to allow players to build a character that isn't completely dependent on the authors of published adventures, the benevolence of the GM, or the party spending the feats and downtime for crafting when gearing up: Playing any sort of 'equipment-specialized' character is difficult if you aren't assured of reasonable access to the appropriate gear of the appropriate size.

This was a bit of a fundamental change with D&D3.0: Before this edition, characters generally didn't specialize that much outside of fighters and certain class kits, so you generally just used whatever magic weapons you happened to find. Now, you can build a character that is focused on a specific weapon and generally be assured you won't be crippled by availability.

One thing I learned back in the early 90s was playing a D&D2.0 Thief kinda sucked when the campaign just had no lootable invisibility items...

Shadow Lodge

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Wrong John Silver wrote:
I've been thinking about using PF1 in an OSR way. And that led me to wonder: what happens to the martial-caster disparity if metamagic rods just don't exist? What if you can't find them, can't buy them, can't make them?

Is this idea coming from 'personal experience' with these rods, or just from seeing them on the item lists?

In my experience, these rods just aren't seen that often due to the following issues:
Price: These things really aren't that cheap (lesser empower is half your expected wealth at 6-7th level).
Obsolescence: Lower level offensive spell slots become fairly obsolete as you level up, so an item that only buffs lower level slots also fades in power fairly quickly (by the time you can likely purchase a lesser empowered rod, 3rd level spell slots are for use in trash fights).
Weight: For a lot of casters, 5lbs is a lot.
Unwieldiness: Spontaneous casters still have the increased casting time when using a rod, so they generally need to have it in hand before their round begins.

My caster characters typically get multiple lesser extend rods for those sweet low level buffs, but I don't think I've ever purchased any of the others: My Wrath of the Righteous Oracle found a Normal Quickened rod which was very nice (Quickened Breath of Life + Heal got our deceased Paladin back in the fight immediately), but I doubt I would have actually paid 75.5k gold for one.

Overall, Casters were 'overpowered' long before these rods were introduced, and removing them probably won't shift the dial in any meaningful way.

Shadow Lodge

rogue171 wrote:

Yeah, this weirdly isn't even something I was *trying* to set up, we ended last session in the middle of combat and I just took a look at the map and went "wait..."

(For context, there's a group of rogues trying to steal an item the party's trying to protect.)

I guess move action makes sense? Apologies for rules ignorance, but could you replace a standard action with a second move action to move 30 ft and then hand something to another person on the same turn? Or is that not how it works?

Yes, you can replace your 'standard' action with a second 'move' action.

Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 181

...
Move Action: A move action allows you to move up to your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table 8–2 for other move actions.

You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move action for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.
...

Your basic movement options are:

Move (Move action, Base Speed)
Double-Move (Move + Move action, Base Speed x2)
Run (Full Round action, Base Speed x4 in a straight line)

Shadow Lodge

The rules aren't going to cover this sort of situation because it is highly unlikely to come up.

Personally, I'd think it would probably be a move action to hand an object to another character (heavier objects might take a standard action or even a full action), as this is the action cost for 'pick up an item', 'draw a weapon', and 'sheathe a weapon'.

Note that this sounds like a situation that might possibly 'break' game mechanics a bit: Each character acting individually and in the right order could let an object travel at ridiculous speeds (a dozen characters each moving 30' and then passing the item to the next character would let the item move 360'+ in 6 seconds or roughly 41mph).

Shadow Lodge

Lady Bluehawk wrote:

Not to beat a horse that's been dead for over a decade, but about Zul ("There IS no trident, there is only ZUL!")...why the heck does it have the summon monster I ability as part of its construction, if it doesn't have anything on that in its write-up? Everything it does can be explained away via the calcific touch spell. :-/

LB

Summon Monster 1 is required for the Bane Quality.

Shadow Lodge

Halasham wrote:
Alright, thank you. Makes the Prestigious Caster feat all the more priority for me.

Just note that the Prestigious Spellcaster feat is not PFS Legal, most likely either because it is considered overpowered or overly confusing/complicated (it only grants 'new spells per day as if the prestige class did grant +1 level of spellcasting for that level' rather than the 'you gain 1 additional effective spellcaster level from your prestige class levels' as described in the feat's description).

Definitely a 'check with your GM before adding this feat to your plans' sort of situation...

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The PF1e AP Adventures can be found in AoN's 'Source List' page (https://www.aonprd.com/Sources.aspx?ProductLine=AdventurePath): Just pay attention to the "player's guide" entries to see what the actual AP name is.

Shadow Lodge

We're going to need a little more context here:

  • First of all, are you really combining a 25pt buy + Gestalt + Mythic? Honestly, that's a bit of overkill for a 15pt buy + Mythic adventure that is really kinda easy by the end.
  • Second, what is your actual intent with this character? Is it just a caster with a martial 'side-hustle' or is it something more ambitious? You kinda need to outline what you plan to do as you level up for us to advise you on your viability.

Shadow Lodge

For pure utility, Empiricist Investigator + the Student of Philosophy Social trait might mix well with an Int-based caster, giving you the Alchemist's 'spell' power while making Perception, Sense Motive, Disable Device, and many social interactions both Int-based and boost-able with Inspiration (possibly even for free with the right talent selection).

Shadow Lodge

I believe you could safely use Expansive Spellstrike with Fireball if you were attacking a Huge or Gargantuan creature from outside of the 'due north/east/south/west' squares with a Reach Trait weapon by abusing the 'creatures are square while bursts are round-ish' grid rules.

Otherwise, you would be within the fireball when it went off...

Shadow Lodge

Flames of Chaos wrote:

I've been playing PF2e since the playtest, and most of the spellcasters make sense to me. I'm looking to dip my toes into the waters of a Magus for the first time as one of the folks in my usual playgroup may be dropping out and they've kinda had the class locked down since we hate to step on each others toes relating to class selections.

While looking through the feats, I'm struggling pretty hard to understand how Expansive Spellstrike works, particularly since my very limited understanding is the intention was to give magi an AoE option when spellstriking. Yet the last sentence of the feat seems to contradict this:

"You can blast the energy of a spell out around the target of your attack. When you
Spellstrike
with a spell that has an area of a
burst,
cone,
or
line,
the spell creates an area instead of affecting only the target. The target must be in the area. A burst is centered on a corner of the target’s square; if the target is Large or larger, the burst use the square corner closest to the center of the target and choose the corner if more than one is eligible. A cone or line emits from you and must include the target; if you’re not adjacent to the target (using a
reach
weapon or
starlit span,
for example), choose any square adjacent to the target as the source. The spell affects all creatures in the area as normal, but the Strike still targets only one creature."

Can someone please explain this to me in basic terms as I am clearly overlooking something obvious? Thanks in advance!

The 'Strike' is the physical weapon attack: If you expansive spellstrike with a sword, the sword damage only applies to the specific attack target, while the spell affects everyone in the appropriate area.

Shadow Lodge

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

Heavens, I'd almost forgotten I'd posted this! Anyway, it is not clear to my that my most important question has been answered:

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
My question here is, what happens if this is paired with a kit like Exemplar or Venomfist that loses or adulterates the standard Brawler's Unarmed Strike feature? Is it stuck with piddly damage, or does this effectively provide the full feature?

The official answer is that there is no official answer, which makes it a GM's call.

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Oh, and this is an ARCHETYPE, not a 'kit'...
"Kit" is what the 2nd Edition alternative packages for core classes were called, and what these things put me in mind me of ever since they were introduced - also, I spend a lot of time on a totally-unrelated game wherein the term "Archetype" has a very important and quite different meaning, so I find it less confusing.

You really should prioritize terms your audience understands when posting publicly like this...

Shadow Lodge

Dwarftr wrote:

Looking thru post and tried to build a few of the suggestions. I think that the "Tempered Champion Paladin of Tanagaar" is looking like the top contender so far. Taja, do you by chance have a sample build of yours that you might share? would like to see how you had it started and what it looked like before you stopped playing them.

Thxs much

Unfortunately, the specific build I saw in use was for Wrath of the Righteous with watered-down mythic rules, so it probably won't work right in a normal campaign (where your charisma won't be boosted to a ridiculous number and evil outsiders won't be everywhere), but it was:

Kitsune (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str)
Str: 16 - 2 = 14
Dex: 15 + 2 = 17
Con: 14 + 0 = 14
Int: 07 + 0 = 07 (definitely not a skill-monkey build)
Wis: 10 + 0 = 10
Cha: 12 + 2 = 14

Feats were pretty standard: Finesse, Two Weapon fighting tree, and the usual Focus and Specialization feats.

The basic idea was to boost your Charisma through the roof and Smite everything, which probably isn't practical in most campaigns.

Might work better as a dual stat boost human or half-elf to free up 5 points from your initial strength score cost.

Shadow Lodge

A Ratfolk PC + Riding Rat(Giant Dire Rat) mount combination offers good mobility (Medium size, Speed 40, climb 20, swim 20).

Shadow Lodge

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

Behold the kit in question.

1.

Class Skills wrote:

A constructed pugilist gains Craft (weapons) as a class skill.

This alters the brawler’s class skills.

This is stupid, isn't it? Brawlers get Craft as a class skill anyway, so what's the point of this aside from needlessly threatening compatibility with some other Brawler kits? Seems like there should be errata for this.

Technically, this change is unnecessary, but it does emphasize the importance of this particular sub-skill for the archetype (for rebuilding their Constructed Arm feature).

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
2.
Constructed Limb wrote:
She treats attacks with this limb as unarmed strikes that gain all the benefits of the brawler’s unarmed strike class feature.
My question here is, what happens if this is paired with a kit like Exemplar or Venomfist that loses or adulterates the standard Brawler's Unarmed Strike feature? Is it stuck with piddly damage, or does this effectively provide the full feature?

Offhand, I'd guess the "Constructed Arm" feature is supposed to modify the "Unarmed Strike" class feature (note that this archetype feature doesn't officially modify or replace any baseline class feature), which would make your question moot.

Unfortunately, we are long past the point when PF1 was supported, so you're not going to get any new official errata or rulings.

Oh, and this is an ARCHETYPE, not a 'kit'...

Shadow Lodge

Zapranoth wrote:

Hi all,

Can you tell me how to calculate the damage for a spell cast by a 20th level / Archmage Tier 6 Magus:

20th CL mythic chain lightning that has the effects "channel energy" (mythic 6th tier Archmage ability), the Empowered Magic Magus arcana and the Maximize Magic magus arcana?

Thank you!

As I recall, the rule on Maximize is that it only maximizes the base spell damage and not the 'Empowered' portion, so what you'd probably end up with is:

200 (20d10 maximized) + 20d10 / 2 (Channel Power) + 20d10 / 2 (Empowered) = 20d10 + 200 Electricity damage that ignores SR

Shadow Lodge

TxSam88 wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Taason the Black wrote:

While there are many Pathfinder rules that do not make a lot of sense to me, none is worse imho than the rule that all paladins have to be LG. With that said, it is impossible to be a paladin of Cayden Cailean since his alignment chart is CG, NG, CN.

The actually concept of paladin is holy warrior for a deity, not some overzealous policeman upholding the law. For that you have hellknights.

Is there a workaround for this or does PF throw its hands in the air and just say not all good aligned deities have paladins?

Given the way that Paizo changed Paladins in 2nd Edition, they agree with this idea.
Gray Paladin exists in PF1
The Gray Paladin only expands your PC alignment options by a little bit:

Source Ultimate Intrigue pg. 69

Gray paladins have discovered that in a world of intrigue, a strict code of honor hinders their options. Their divergence from the paladin’s normal code still drains them, but somehow, they have found a way to avoid losing all of their powers.

Alignment: A gray paladin can be lawful good, lawful neutral, or neutral good, though she must still follow a lawful good, neutral good, or lawful neutral deity.

This alters the paladin’s alignment restrictions.
...

Any deity that has Gray Paladin worshipers always could have had 'normal' paladin worshipers as well...

Shadow Lodge

Waterhammer wrote:
What if I want to do the warpriest build but as a human? Also don’t want to dump my strength into the pits? It should be viable from 1st level as well. I noticed that a 1st level Ranger character that I made was packing over 69 pounds of gear. Very close to being a medium load. If your strength is 16. Eight strength is way less.

Point buys only stretch so far, and high-dex builds can generally get away with light equipment loads until they eventually get some magic bags.

Conveniently enough for many builds, this generally works better for Small size characters than Medium ones due to their 75% carrying capacity vs. 50% weapon/armor weights, giving them just a tiny bit more wiggle room (unless you need something that doesn't scale by character size like an Alchemy Crafting Kit).

Shadow Lodge

Northern Spotted Owl wrote:

If you go with the (excellent option of) warpriest, you might as well use kukri for their 18-20 crit range. You no longer care that they're 1d3 weapons. At 11th level you can take Improved Critical for a 15-20 crit range.

And if by luck you have a witch who takes the fortune hex then your crits skyrocket (one combat per day). Boring math below:

18-20 range means an 85% if not getting a crit. 85% * 85% = 72%, that is you have a 72% chance of *not* getting a crit on either roll, and hence a 28% chance of getting a crit.

15-20 means 70% * 70% = 49% chance of *not* getting a crit on either roll. That's right, 51% of the time you crit.

Cheers

Just to clarify, you are talking about chances of a Critical Threat rather than an actual critical hit: You still need to confirm the crit, which will be hamstrung a bit by the Warpriest's 3/4 BAB.

Back when we ran through (most of) Wrath of the Righteous, one person played a Tempered Champion Paladin of Tanagaar for full BAB big damage dice Kukri fun.

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Sysryke wrote:

...

But, more generally, I've always wondered a bit why high level shape shifting type characters aren't able to become fully powered versions of the creatures they can become, like dragons. When you're high enough level to surpass a creature's CR, shouldn't you be able to just be that creature? Or is my understanding of the theory not matching the actual mechanics at those levels?

Because that's been done in the past and it didn't work out well...

Past the early levels in D&D3.0, a caster could match a martial build in melee combat with a handful of spell and/or class buffs, leading players to ask 'why play a fighter when I could play a CoDZilla* instead?' Each evolution of the game since then has been dialing the casters back so they can't easily fill every role in a party at the same time.

*CoD being 'Cleric or Druid' who both had a strong chassis and powerful buffs that kinda made the fighter obsolete.

A fundamental item you are missing is that CR is not based on a single character's power but rather against a whole party of characters for just a single encounter. An NPC dragon's breath weapon is balanced against getting one or two uses before it dies or flees, while a PC Dragon's breath weapon needs to be balanced against being used once or twice per encounter.

Throw in the fact that the PC doesn't actually lose their other abilities (casters still have their spell slots) and shapeshifting spells/abilities become an overpowering option really quickly...

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Baseline, such an item would be a Standard Action to activate. In theory, you could build such an item (at greatly increased cost) using a Quickened version of the spell and only require an immediate action to activate, but you would still be limited to one such activation per round.

Keep in mind that Unwitting Ally does offer a Will Save to negate, and a baseline cantrip from a magic item would only be DC10 (or DC12 for the quickened version) to resist, which seems like something your PCs would laugh at if a level 8 foe is considered reasonable...

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'Taja the Barbarian' was my first Pathfinder character...and probably my second and third as well: I had finally reached the conclusion that my college friends just weren't going to be able to get together enough to hold a campaign together now that we were dispersed into the real world, so I should create a character that worked 'right out of the box' rather than something that took a few levels to come online (unlike one friend who often built characters around prestige classes that he rarely qualified when the campaign was abandoned). This turned out to be a fairly wise idea, as I created 'Taja the Barbarian' three separate times (twice in Sandpoint for APs, and once as a PFS character) and I believe she only managed to hit 3rd level once...

As for the name Taja, I certainly stole it from somewhere, and her general background (exiled from her home for killing her father) was largely inspired by seeing the 'Mark of the Kinslayer' in a Scarred Lands setting book.

Taja did actually achieve her 'Final Form' as 'Taja the Half-Elf Urban Bloodrager (with a dip into 'Fractured Mind' Spiritualist)' when we ran the last PF1 Runelord AP online a little while back: This time, I built her because the GM wanted us to start with a level in an NPC class and planned on resetting our characters to 1st level after running a prequel adventure, and the rest of the party (swashbuckler, rogue, cleric, alchemist, and bard) was looking pretty ineffective at first level (the NPC level idea was actually dropped during the reset). She is the only character of mine that has actually managed to finish a PF1 AP ('Electra the Oracle' came close, but apparently no one else was keen on actually playing the final module in Wrath of the Righteous, and I have hope that Mia the Evil Mesmerist will complete Hell's Vengeance, but that campaign is on hold at the moment). She turned out to be a strong 'all rounder' character with strong melee ability, some nice spell buffs, and some of the highest Diplomacy, Perception, and Sense Motive skills in the party despite only having an 8 Wisdom and 12 Charisma...

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Mysterious Stranger wrote:

I would start with the level of ranger for first. That will give you better HP and proficiency in martial weapons. It also gives you the option of taking power attack at 1st level, which the druid cannot do because of the BAB prerequisite. Druids do not have any restrictions on what weapons they can use other than not having proficiency in many weapons. Having access to good weapons until you wild shape comes online will make surviving the early levels much easier.

This will also mean when you gain your animal companion at 5th level (4th level druid) you will be able to take boon companion. If you take 4 levels of druid first, you still cannot take boon companion until 5th level. If you do not have boon companion when you gain your animal companion from the animal doming it will probably have around 9 HP and a 17 AC, if you have boon companion, it will probably have around 22 HP and an AC of 20. The first level companion at 4th level will be a liability instead of a benefit. This assume you are taking the animal domain. If you are not taking the animal domain, boon companion is probably not worth taking.

The OP is actually starting play at 10th level, so the effectiveness of the build at any earlier level is largely academic (though starting with a level of ranger is probably wise for the tiny boost in HP).

Honestly, I think I'd probably just go with the actual Animal Companion class feature rather than the Animal domain: The domain benefits don't seem particularly good for the -3 level adjustment to the Animal Companion, even if you can offset this with a feat.

I don't have a lot of personal experience with animal companions, but I'm under the impression that they typically lag behind when you hit double digit levels as their BAB is only slightly better than a Wizard, so I'm not certain if a Huge companion will be worth the complications it will likely bring (it will literally take up a huge amount of space on the map and will have issues in narrow hallways).

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thorin001 wrote:

1) Use intimidate on the bad guys. Giving them a -2 to hit, skills, and saves is a decent debuff.

...

The -4 size penalty on Intimidate checks against foes larger than you makes this a bit problematic for a halfling or other small character: The Taunt feat will probably work better and probably save you a skill...

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One real-world concept you might want to familiarize yourself with (if you aren't already) is 'Heir Presumptive' as it a kinda similar concept:

The Heir Presumptive is the someone who is currently set to inherit but could be expected to reasonably lose that position: If my older brother were Duke and had no children, I'd be the Heir Presumptive until such time as he has a legitimate child, who would become the Heir Apparent and I'd be in line after that child (and any other legitimate children my brother might have, and any of their children in turn, etc.).

In a fantasy world, there would probably be a 'statute of limitations' on resurrections where if they occur after a certain point, any inheritances aren't legally required to be undone (though they might be if the current holder of title and/or property is willing): If you wait 100 years to resurrect a King, he's legally not actually the King when he returns. Death would probably be considered similar to an abdication of some sort: If resurrected, you're alive, but you someone else now holds your position and you have no legal right to your old title.

In fact, there might be a specific title-modifier for such a person to make clear they once held the position (and are due a certain amount of respect accordingly) but no longer do (like 'Pope Emeritus' in the real world).

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One thing to note is that Fleet Charge takes a swift action, as does entering a combat style stance: This makes getting a full attack off with Dragon Style even more difficult in Mythic (assuming you aren't running solo and no one teleports you into melee, your partymates will kill most foes before you can get a full attack off). I was originally looking at using Jabbing Style, but that just doesn't work in mythic rocket tag with the swift action crunch: If there is a way around this issue, I'm not familiar with it (styles aren't really my area of expertise).

A Master of Many Styles Monk can activate 4 style stances as a free action at level 15+, but I assume this won't make up for the loss of Flurry attacks. I suppose you could go Greater Two-Weapon Fighting + Double Slice but that's an awful lot of feats...

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I ran some numbers the other day and was coming up with an average DPR that was pushing 500hp, and that's just using the basics (Large size with 50 Strength, Mythic Power Attack, +6 enhancement bonus to attack/damage, normal and greater weapon focus and specialization feats, Mythic Heroism, and Pummeling Charge). This is also without taking potential crits into account.

500 DAMAGE PER ROUND.

Most of the published CR20+ mythic foes simply won't survive a single full attack routine like this, which means using maneuvers will typically just drag the fight out for no good reason...

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First off, this thread should really be in the Advice forum: I've flagged it to be moved (I assume this is what Azothath's post is supposed to be communicating).

Secondly, are you actually creating a level 20 tier 10 character, or is this a character that will play from level 1 to level 20 tier 10? If you are starting at level 1, are you playing the actual Wrath of the Righteous AP or something home-built?

Thirdly, in my limited experience with Mythic, you are probably better off just pummeling your foe to death: Mythic play is rocket-tag on steroids, and if your foe actually gets a chance to act, you probably did something very wrong...

Finally, combat maneuvers are generally just a bad idea as they tend to fall into one of the following categories with very little space in between:
Completely worthless, as your foes are just immune or otherwise unimpeded (disarming a natural attacker or tripping a flying creature) - or -
Completely overpowered, as your foes are unable to fight effectively once you use them (disarming a foe who is built around a specific weapon, or grappling a low strength caster who wasn't built with a decent escape option).

Either way, maneuvers rarely make the game 'more fun' overall...

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Chrion wrote:

There may be specific rules about this that I just haven't come across but it seems like this kind of thing happens often in adventuring media but it doesn't seem like there are clear rules for how to handle this in game.

There is more than one PC in this situation in my game, but for simplicities sake let's just say it's one PC.

The PC is sleeping, no armor or weapons within reach, but their gear is in the same room. They are awoken to find that a group of enemies has surrounded them and one of them has a blade at the PCs throat. The PC is utterly outnumbered.

First of all, its not clear to me whether this PC should be considered helpless or not. They do seem to be "completely at an opponent’s mercy", but not in such a way that would allow for the enemy to, for example, spend a full round to coup de grace them.

Flat footed, on the other hand, just doesn't seem right either. It doesn't seem to appropriately reflect the disadvantage the PC is at relative to their opponents.

So, how screwed is this PC? How would you rule this? Maybe if the PC tries to get away the enemy gets an auto crit but not a coup de grace?

Hopefully I haven't simply overlooked rules that address cases like this specifically but if I have I'd be happy to learn about them.

Thanks!

The simple fact is this sort of encounter just doesn't work in a Hit Point based system and should just be avoided in actual play...

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Not really my area of expertise, but I'd consider scaling the uses and speed boost by level as well: 30' bonus to speed 10/day with free action activation is a really strong item all by itself.

Maybe something along the lines of:
Stage 1: +10' Speed for one round (level/day [max 10])
Stage 2: +20' Speed, +1 AC & +1 Reflex Saves for one round (level/day [max 10])
Stage 3: +30' Speed, +1 AC, +1 Reflex Saves & +1 Attack for one round (level/day [max 10])
Stage 4: Haste (level/day [max 10])

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Melkiador wrote:
Honestly, the summon being ignored isn’t the worst, if you are helping set up flanks. But also, is it worth a 5th level spell to give someone a flanking buddy?

If flanking is your goal, a much lower level summon can almost certainly get the job done without spending a MP on the templates.

Alternately, you can send your companion in to flank.

If you really need a tough flanker, a Spiritual Ally from the party Cleric is significantly faster to cast, uses a much less valuable spell slot, and basically can't be killed (except by SR, which might be an issue)...

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Mysterious Stranger wrote:

...

As to the summoning Hunters get all summon natures ally spells without having to choose them. It really does not take a lot of normal feats to boost those. About all they really need is two feats. Augmented Summoning (and spell focus conjuration). Being able to add a mythic template to an animal will improve its combat ability. Both these templates allow the creature an additional full attack. Agile gives Dual Initiative which gives it two turns each round, Savage gives it Feral Savagery which means it gets two full attacks. A savage Dire Lion with augmented summoning will be something that is not tough to ignore.

With a one round cast time, if anything is still alive for a summoned creature to actually attack, it's either a fight where no one else felt like spending MPs, or your party has done something really wrong*

*Seriously, our party's gunslinger literally obliterated a Vrock in the second module (I think) before anyone else even had a chance to act: He got lucky with crits, but there was no way it was going to survive long enough to actually act, and we were playing with watered-down mythic rules**
**Our GM ran it for a different group with full mythic rules and claims he only got to actually roll for the NPCs 2 or 3 times in the entirety of the last two modules.

Also, remember your summons will still have to deal with demonic DR, which will be extremely common. This DR is a bit of a joke for martial characters since they just need to gear up with cold iron holy weapons (which are plentiful), but your under-level (due to your reduced spell progression) summons will likely have a hard time.

A base CR5 Dire Lion isn't available to a Hunter until 13th level (using a 5th level spell slot) with base attack bonuses of +12/+13 and 1d8+7/1d6+7 damage, which is upgraded to +14/+15 attack and 1d8+9/1d6+9 damage with the Augmented Summons feat bonus. The mythic templates add some defense and extra attacks, but don't seem to actually improve attack or actual damage per attack (beyond the minor bleed damage from Savage).

A mundane CR14 Nalfeshnee is AC 29, 203hp, and DR 10/Good, which means your Lion will arrive late, miss with 70%/65% of attacks, and only do 0-7/0-5 hp of damage.

If that doesn't scream "IGNORE ME" to a level appropriate demon, I don't know what would...

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A gambling addiction is fairly incompatible with an adventuring career as the game assumes a certain wealth level: Losing all your wealth (including gear) past the lowest of levels will seriously impair your adventuring, while a 'winning streak' will leave you with too much wealth (until you lose it all, of course).

Realistically, PC wealth past the earliest levels is typically so ridiculously high that it would take forever to actually go broke as few people can afford to wagers hundreds or thousands of gold pieces against you...

The best option for pulling off a perpetually broke character would probably be a back-rank caster character (Pyschic would probably be best, but Bard should work fine if you really want to follow the "Knight's Tale" inspiration).

The actual addiction might be played out as a simple series of 'double or nothing' d20 rolls against the GM (with the assumption that the 'nothing' will catch up with the PC after a few rolls at most)...

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Level 5 Mythic Hunter Spell Options:
Baleful Polymorph: Strong option, but probably better for a full caster.
Cure Critical Wounds: Again, you are getting this option really late.
Fire Snake: Weakened by Fire Resistance, but 1d10 per CL might be enough to be effective. Still would probably work best on a caster-focused build to get the Save DC reasonably high.
Geniekind: The duration in rounds is a real detriment here
Stoneskin [Material]: Saving throw bonuses and Fortification(Moderate) effects seem nice.
Wall of Fire: By the time you get this, it's unlikely to actually damage anything, even with the mythic boost.
Wall of Thorns: Probably not great for rocket-tag. Unlikely to do much damage, but the grapple effect might work well.

Level 6 Mythic Hunter Spell Options:
Fire Seeds: It's fire: Enough said.
Move Earth: Seems situational.
Repel Wood: Extremely situational, and such situations are unlikely to involve your Demonic foes...
Wall of Stone: If you already like to throw normal walls of stone around, the mythic version is probably nice.

Baleful Polymorph, Fire Snake and Stoneskin seem like the strongest options here.

Final conclusion:
Mythic Spellcasting actually seems fairly weak for Hunters: The have a handful of nice options, but nothing really awesome. To be fair, though, fighting evil outsiders really isn't their strong point to start with...

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Level 3 Mythic Hunter Spell Options:
Battle Trance [Half-Orc]: Nice if you are melee-focused
Burrow: The Augmented version leaving a tunnel for the rest of the party is nice, but kinda specialized...
Call Lightning: Lightning damage is generally really weak, and the one round casting time is too slow...
Companion Mind Link: Sounds nice, but only if you want your companion something your GM doesn't feel is normal...
Contagion: It's evil (literally)
Cup of Dust: More of a 'long term debuff' than a good rocket-tag spell.
Cure Moderate Wounds: Kinda weak for a 3rd level spell option.
Daylight: Nice long-term buff, but not particularly powerful.
Hydraulic Torrent: Fire/Cold damage tends to be underwhelming.
Magic Fang, Greater: Sounds nice, but Demonic DR typically needs Cold Iron (or a 'real' +3 enhancement bonus) and/or Holy to pierce, neither of which this spell can grant.
Named Bullet: The regular version is a great 'rocket-tag nuke' option if you pre-cast a handful of these for a strong archer. The baseline mythic version increases the crit multiplier by one, which is only good if the archer hasn't already buffed it.
Stone Shape: Kinda a niche spell option.
Vermin Shape I: If you are built for fighting while polymorphed, this seems decent.
Waters of Lamashtu [M]: Kinda inappropriate for the campaign.

Named Bullet strikes me as the best option here, though only if your archer doesn't already have a x4 crit multiplier...

Level 4 Mythic Hunter Spell Options:
Arboreal Hammer: Kinda dependent on being near a tree...
Cape of Wasps: Greatly limited by poison-immune foes, and the enlarged size might impact the rest of your party. Too short of a duration for rocket-tag.
Cure Serious Wounds: Getting this kinda late for it to be really useful.
Dispel Magic: Probably best left to full casters.
Flame Strike: Still weakened by Fire Resistance, but better than any other fire/cold damage spell we've seen so far. Probably only worthwhile with a full caster build.
Giant Vermin: I doubt the DR granted will be particularly helpful by the time you get this spell, though the templates might be nice.
Ice Storm: Cold damage tends to be weak against outsiders, and all the terrain debuffs will likely hurt your party more than your foes...
Shield of the Dawnflower [Sarenrae]: Fire damage tends to be weak against outsiders, and the short duration means you'll need to cast it each fight, which is typically a waste of a round...
Spike Stones: Kinda weak damage for how late you get this spell, even with the mythic boost.
True Form: Very niche...
Vermin Shape II: Nice if you are built for this.

Not seeing any really strong options here...

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My immediate thoughts on low level mythic hunter spells

Level 1 Mythic Hunter Spell Options:
Anticipate Peril: Mythic characters generally don't need more bonuses to Initiative
Call Animal: Not certain how this spell (mythic or normal) is particularly useful...
Cure Light Wounds: More healing is never bad, but still doesn't seem particularly good.
Endure Elements: Changing this spell to 'caster level targets' and adding Fire Resist 5 and Cold Resist 5 is actually kinda nice with its 24 hour duration.
Entangle: Could be nice, but might harm your party mates if you don't coordinate well.
Faerie Fire: Dazzled isn't very good for a MP expenditure. Blinded is better with the augmented version, but even more costly to cast.
Goodberry: Kinda weak for the MP cost, and the augmented version is somewhat hampered by your limited number of spell slots.
Hydraulic Push: Fire/Cold damage tends to be underwhelming in a campaign full of evil outsiders.
Know the Enemy: Could be pretty useful with its long duration.
Magic Fang: Could be a nice buff for your companion (if it has multiple natural attacks).
Mighty Fist of the Earth [Oread]: Normal or mythic, this is pretty weak without some sort of boost to your unarmed damage.
Obscuring Mist: Size and range boosts generally aren't that useful.
Resist Energy: The base resistance scales up so well that the saving throw bonus probably isn't that useful. Granting resistance to an adjacent ally might be nice.
Sun Metal: Fire damage is generally pretty weak against evil outsiders.

Level 2 Mythic Hunter Spell Options:
Animal Aspect: Not a particularly great base spell, but adding a +2 size bonus to a stat makes it better
Barkskin: Nice DR
Burning Gaze: Fire damage is fairly weak.
Chill Metal: Cold damage and 'damage over time' are both weak.
Feast of Ashes: Too slow for 'rocket-tag' fights.
Flame Blade: Again, fire damage is weak.
Fog Cloud: Typically, size really doesn't matter here.
Gust of Wind: Kind of a specialized spell to start with...
Heat Metal: Fire damage and 'Damage over Time' are both weak.
Pernicious Poison: Too many 'immune to poison' foes
Pox Pustules: Adding weak damage to a weak debuff spell is still weak.
Ricochet Shot: Duration in rounds makes the base spell really weak in rocket-tag fights.
Spider Climb: Nice in theory, but probably weak in actual use.
Summon Swarm: One Round casting time is a major drawback here.
Unshakable Chill: Cold damage is often weak against outsiders.

The spells that look good to me are probably Endure Elements and Barkskin, though I don't recall how well DR/magic will hold up for Barkskin...

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Remember that a hunter is a spontaneous caster, so they can only take the mythic version of a spell they already know, which will greatly limit the initial options: Your friend should review the mythic options for their current spells and see if they actually sound good or not. Mythic Spellcasting might be an option that will just work better if they delay taking it until a later tier when their spells known list is more appropriate.

The other thing to keep in mind is these spells will cost MP to use, so play style / party role will be important here: Every MP you spend on a mythic spell is one you can't spend on feats or other abilities, which might be rough for a hybrid class.

Potential options can be reviewed at https://www.aonprd.com/SpellsCustom.aspx:
Select 'Hunter' for Class
Set the 'Level (Max)' to 2 (which is the most power spell this hunter probably has).
Check the 'Includes Mythic Version' box

One final thing to keep in mind is that Mythic Play is basically rocket tag, so any option that takes more than a round to fully come into play (like Heat Metal or Flame Blade) or requires you to act before the rest of the party (like a short duration buff) will often be wasted...