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A bit niche but it works well for the Swarm Monger druid. Their familiar gets 50% of their master's HP as temp HP when they become a swarm (so combined normally 100% of their total HP, 75% for the figment) which still makes them pretty durable for a swarm, and now they don't care if it dies.
Their ability to gain resistance/immunity to an element can protect them against some of the most common anti-swarm tactics


Eidolon Parasite (Unchained Summoner archetype)

An eidolon parasite drains strength from their eidolon, reducing it to a shadow of its potential while becoming ever more monstrous with stolen power. The overwhelming majority of these eidolons will hate and fear the summoner that has parasitized them, though a handful might take a perverse pride in the achievement.

Alignment: An eidolon parasite with a good or neutral eidolon must be evil, and one who becomes non-evil loses his evolution pool and will become an unchained summoner with no archetype the next time he gains a level.

Parasite Pool: A eidolon parasite’s eidolon gains half as many base evolution points as a regular eidolon of its level (minimum 1), its Str/Dex bonuses are half of their listed values, and its Max attacks are reduced by 2. It does not gain the share spells or devotion abilities.
An eidolon parasite gains an evolution pool equal to the evolution pool of his eidolon, not counting increases from its subtype or the Extra Evolution feat. He may ignore requirements based on subtype but must otherwise meet the requirements for any evolution he gains, and for the purpose of qualifying for evolutions an eidolon parasite has the biped base form and begins with the limbs [legs] and limbs [arms] evolutions. He cannot select the ability increase evolution through this ability. The eidolon parasite can change his evolutions whenever he gains a level (or through the transmogrify spell). This ability alters Eidolon.

Stolen Flesh: At 1st level, the eidolon parasite can cast a spell with a target of “your eidolon” on himself as though he were his own eidolon and gains Toughness as a bonus feat. An eidolon parasite cannot sacrifice his own health to prevent damage to his eidolon. This ability alters Life Link and replaces Life Bond.

Begrudging Cooperation: At 3rd, 9th, and 15th levels the eidolon parasite and his eidolon gain a teamwork feat as a bonus feat. They must both select the same feat and must both meet the requirements for it. This ability replaces Summon Monster.

Otherworldy Might: At 4th level the eidolon parasite gains a +2 bonus to natural armor, +2 bonus to saving throws, and a +2 bonus to Strength and Dexterity. At 12th level these bonuses increase to +4. This ability replaces Shield Ally and Greater Shield Ally.

Ruthless Transposition: At 16th level the eidolon parasite can use Transposition as an immediate action when he is hit by an attack. If he does so his eidolon takes the damage in his place. This ability replaces Merge Forms.

Consume the Weak: At 20th level as a full round action the eidolon parasite can consume his eidolon, killing it to rejuvenate himself as though affected by a heal spell. When he does so he gains the benefits of its 1st, 4th, and 8th level base evolutions. He may benefit from these evolutions even if a creature of his base form would not normally qualify for them. These benefits last for 1 hour.

Obviously this is aiming at an upfront combat focused summoner archetype more akin to the synthesist, greatly weakening the eidolon but not sacrificing it entirely and losing so much in the action economy, but also not overriding the summoner's physical stats and giving them the full eidolon toolkit.


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I've looked to it as a guide when creating a few, but I'm not sure I've ever made something purely legal through it because the concept always included something it couldn't generate. The weaknesses especially have very limited options.

It's also blatantly obvious the race builder was reverse engineered from races they'd built without it, hence the inclusion of things like Shadow Travel, so I feel no guilt about eyeballing the RP for a new ability.

I don't think it's something that should ever be offered to PCs without a lot of collaboration and discussion, it's far too easy to minmax it for a specific build.


Thanks very much for the feedback!

Laegrim wrote:


Most are on-theme, and are spells worth casting, but Nine Lives stands out a bit. I can see where you were going - there aren't any 8th level [pain] spells, and Nine Lives has a bit of the "dealing and removing pain" flavor, but it still seems kind of off.

Spell levels 8 and 9 were a challenge (I was spoiled for choice for 2 & 3). I considered Maze of Madness and Suffering for 9 and maybe it would be better, though I was avoiding spells with the [evil] tag for player flexibility. For 8 maybe Prediction of Failure instead?

- Excruciating Caress (Su):

Good catch will add that - oh and change the final revelation to make them immune to pain too because oops. I was trying to make this mystery in line with others and that meant one like this had to include a deeply mediocre touch attack with appalling scaling, but I figured I could get away with a useful condition with the nonlethal drawback. Realistically it should probably make people sickened for 1 round or something, but I didn't have the heart.

- Feed on Agony (Su):

Maybe change it to a swift action and grant Greater Vampiric instead? That would bring it a maximum healing of 15 HP/HD a day which is a lot to drain, though you're unlikely to get more than half of that on a good day.

How about:

Masochistic Vigor (Su):

When you have no temporary hit points and take lethal damage from a source you control (such as striking an enemy with a vicious weapon, taking split damage from your shield other spell, or a damaging spell you cast), you may gain temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt as an immediate action. These hits points last for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1) and don’t stack. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3+ your Charisma modifier.

Now to get that big boost of HP you do have to take the hit first. I think I'm comfortable with it being situationally powerful.


avr wrote:
Masochistic vigor seems a bit excessive. With a little luck it could lead to shield other soaking an unreasonable amount of damage, or to a dozen vicious weapon hits doing only the first 1d6. It needs something along the lines of damage soaked by temporary hit points not counting towards new temp HP IMO.

Ah I realize it's also missing the word "lethal", so you can't, say, tormenting spell flame strike and include yourself to get 40 temp HP for taking nonlethal damage. It was running long and I didn't find a non-wordy way to specify it had to be damage taken from real HP.

This one originally gave one of a choice of bonuses on taking self-inflicted damage, but there are enough easy ways to take small amounts built right into the mystery the bonuses had to be really weak or use-limited or it was too good, plus it was also too long.

Maybe this revelation concept is not to be. I had an idea about using inflict wounds to deal nonlethal damage and sickened, but I wanted something to improve durability that didn't just poach from Life.


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Oracle Mystery: Pain

An oracle with the Pain mystery adds Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Stealth to her list of class skills.

Bonus Spells: Persuasive Goad (2nd), Shield Other (4th), Vampiric touch (6th), Shadow Barbs (8th), Symbol of Pain (10th), Unwilling Shield (12th), Mass Inflict Pain (14th), Nine Lives (16th), Transmute Blood to Acid (18th)

An oracle with the Pain mystery can choose from any of the follow revelations:

Endure Wounds (Ex): You gain Diehard as a bonus feat, even if you don’t meet the prerequisites, and count as possessing Endurance for the purposes of qualifying for any feat with Diehard as a prerequisite.

Excruciating Caress (Su): You gain a melee touch attack that deals 1d6 points of nonlethal damage +1 for every two oracle levels you possess. Creatures that take damage from this ability are staggered for one round unless they pass a Fortitude save. You can use excruciating caress a number of times per day equal to 3+ your Charisma modifier.

Feed on Agony (Su): As a standard action you can grant a melee weapon you are holding the vampiric special weapon quality for one minute even if it is a bludgeoning weapon, treating it as though you had attuned to a new weapon. You may use this ability three times per day. You must be at least 5th level to select this revelation.

Legendary Suffering (Su): When a creature takes damage from or fails a saving throw against a spell you cast with the [pain] descriptor, you gain a +4 profane bonus on intimidate checks against that creature for 1 hour, and can use intimidate to demoralize as a swift action against it. If the spell rendered the creature unconscious or reduced it to negative hit points, you gain this bonus against all creatures that observed the event clearly.

Life Link (Su): As per the life oracle mystery revelation of the same name.

Masochistic Vigor (Su): When you take damage from a source you control (such as striking an enemy with a vicious weapon, taking split damage from your shield other spell, or a damaging spell you cast) you may gain temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt as an immediate action. These hits points last for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1) and don’t stack. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3+ your Charisma modifier.

Pain is Power (Su): As a standard action you may regain an expended spell slot of at least one level lower than the highest level spell you can cast by taking 1d6 damage per spell level. This damage cannot be prevented or redirected. You can use this ability once per day. At 9th and 15th level you gain an additional use of this ability.

Share the Burden (Su): You gain the witch hex Gift of Consumption, except you may use it a number of times per day equal to 3+ your Charisma modifier.

Tormenting Spell (Su): Once per day you can cast a spell as if it was modified by both the Merciful Spell and the Empower Spell feats and it gains the [pain] descriptor. It must be a spell both feats could modify. This does not increase the casting time or the level of the spell. At 15th level you can use this ability an additional time per day. You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.

Velstrac Technique (Ex): You gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain and Chain Mastery as bonus feats, even if you don’t meet the prerequisites. You must be at least 3rd level to select this revelation.

Final Revelation: Upon reaching 20th level you have mastered your pain and that of others. You are immune to nonlethal damage and the dazed, nauseated, sickened, staggered, and stunned conditions. Add all cure and all inflict spells to your spells known. Whenever you cast an inflict spell, heal yourself or your allies within 60 feet for the total amount of damage inflicted, divided as you see fit.

Look I know PAIN is about the edgelordiest mystery to ever edge but I was on a simultaneous oracle and kyton binge and got thinking. That said I didn't want it to just be a kyton mystery, so I've tried to avoid copying their tricks with a couple exceptions.


Oh also I realized no, sidestep secret and nature's whispers are not equivalent: sidestep secret and prophetic armor gives AC and Reflex, Nature's Whispers gives AC & CMD. So no it's not fair to argue sidestep should give CMD, oops. Nature it is.


I too have a love hate mostly hate relationship with Paragon Surge. I can't deny its power, but it's just adds so many options that I kind of don't want to put it into play for fear of choice paralysis.

Theaitetos wrote:


Some curses are already very good at 1st-level and add little of value to some character later - your Covetous curse is in fact such a curse; you could then take a curse with more benefits as your curse level progresses, e.g. Clouded Vision, Deep One, Lame, Legalistic, Possessed... . And the Misfortune revelation of the Dual-Cursed Oracle is one of the strongest revelations there is:

Oh I misread dual cursed on the reread and thought you got misfortune at 5th level instead of it being available from 1st. I think I'll still go Spirit Guide because it's a better fit and they don't stack, but it would be powerful.

The Raiment looks like it only gives a revelation from your own mystery, which I don't think compensates for it being bad armor otherwise.

Sidenote why does the lunar mystery give the option of an animal companion that's actually a wild animal while the nature mystery only lets you take a domesticated beast of burden.

Maybe more of a balance between Str and Cha, though Smite Impudence helps a bit, maybe some other way to boost. I'd like the character to remain mostly suitable for polite society even in combat, so something like weretouched shifter is right out (this is also why I'm lukewarm on dragon disciple).

My read was you could suppress sickened for 1 hour with a use of selfish healing, remove the condition without curing the affliction. Swift action touch of corruption healing for undead seems fine but curing the conditions it can apply seems like a stretch to me, after all it's not like a paladin can debuff undead with their mercies.


Ryze Kuja wrote:

1 Oracle (Heavens - Revelation: Awesome Display)

1 Scaled Fist Monk for Cha to AC
2 Anti Paladin for Cha to Saves
1 Sorcerer for 1st lvl spontaneous arcane casting
4 Dragon Disciple (+4 Str, +2 Nat Armor, +3 spell progression -- pick buff spells like Expeditious Retreat, Blur, Enlarge, Invisibility, etc.) and Bloodline Feat Power Attack at DD2
11 Sorcerer (you'd end up with 15th level caster, so 7th level Sorc spells)

Get Heighten Spell and become a Knockout Specialist with Color Spray (and all other Illusion [Pattern] spells like hypnotic pattern, rainbow pattern, etc.) powered by Awesome Display, and now you're a pretty powerful Crowd Controller. Focus on getting Illusion and Buff spells from your Sorc spellcasting while focusing feats primarily on your Combat and Melee Prowess.

You can cause Sicken with Cornugon Smash + Cruel Enchant on your weapon, so going 3 Anti-pal isn't super necessary.

The insinuator archetype, which I like for this character gets essentially lays on hands, self only. The third level lets me suppress the sickened condition on myself because Covetous creates a risk of getting sickened for extended periods.

That build is really cool, I think it's a bit too focused for what I'm looking for but I will reevaluate.


Theaitetos wrote:
Aldrakan wrote:

Mystery: Lore

Revelations:
Sidestep secret
Lorekeeper
The CHA bonus to Reflex from Sidestep Secret does not stack with the Antipaladin's Unholy Resilience (CHA to all saves). As an alternative, there is the Nature mystery's Nature's Whispers revelation, which adds CHA to AC and CMD, which would be better; however, you'd have to give up on the Lorekeeper revelation.

Are you certain? I thought that as it is replacement for a stat, it would stack with the antipaladin's untyped bonus. Still good.

Honestly I think I could successfully argue in our group it's an error that it doesn't work like the otherwise identical Nature one, because forgetting about CMD is something they do, but yeah let's assume Nature. It's cleaner, less debatable, frees up a feat.

I don't think I get much out of dual cursed except a second curse, but spirit guide seems really good. I didn't want to make it more than a 1 level dip, but I can't deny that archetype is a perfect fit thematically and is mechanically really nice. Plus it adds as options guiding star for Wisdom in the Flesh and benefit of wisdom, which is just better lorekeeper, so that helps with the switch to nature.

Theaitetos wrote:


Another dip for consideration is the Sorcerer, especially Crossblooded. Similarly, the Eldritch Heritage feats offer some good opportunities for anyone with a high CHA. However, I suggest you first flesh out some more ideas of what roles you want your character to play. Skill monkey? Front-line combat? Debuff/controller like a Heavens Oracle?

I think at least decent skills and a reasonable face, but more of a frontliner than not, they should be pretty self-reliant rather than a focused debuffer who needs other people to help with the killing part.


I have the start of a build I like but I'm looking for advice on how to level it up further and what options might fit the theme. This is being built as a PC or PC equivalent NPC/GMNPC.

The concept is essentially someone whose soul is extremely open to being influenced, but refuses to fully commit to any of the things tempting them, partially for self-interest, partially because they're not quite evil enough to want to join them.
They're knowledgeable and charismatic enough to convince people to join them on quests that are more to this character's benefit, probably not planning to screw them over but it could happen.

The build so far:

Race: Human probably, not required but the build is skill hungry so the extra point/level helps.
Alignment: Neutral Evil (Most options, lets you invoke a true neutral spirit to dodge detect evil, I think)

Stats at 1st level with 20 point buy:
Str 16 Dex 7 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 18
Level bonuses go into Cha

Oracle 1
Curse: Covetous (Use magic device as class skill, thematic)
Mystery: Lore

Revelations:
Sidestep secret
Lorekeeper

Spells known:
Cure Light Wounds
Decompose Corpse (for those emergency coverups)
Face of the Devourer (extra combat power, intimidate, and in a pinch you can cast it on an enemy to make them look like the monster)
Obscuring Mist

Insinuator Antipaladin X
For at least a few levels.

Greeds: Sickened (generally good, also helps in case the covetous drawback gets activated)

This gives us Cha instead of Dex or Int to AC, Reflex, and knowledge skills, all knowledge skills as class skills, and of course Cha bonus to saves.

Feats:
Extra Revelation, Spirit Ridden, Power Attack probably, ???

So on a given day they'll pick a patron to empower them and a spirit to grant them full ranks in two skills, while generally being good at most social skills and not awful at knowledge skills.

Things I'm particularly trying to find:

Additional "flexibility" options like spirit ridden
Other abilities that fit the theme of gaining power from multiple disparate sources
More skill points?
Some way to be good at sneaking after you've tanked dex
Something to do in combat other than just power attack

Would variant multiclass: bard would be a good way to go?


I don't think it does, but as it happens I wrote an archetype myself that fits pretty closely. Focuses on spreading disease.

Plaguelord (Antipaladin archetype:):
While most antipaladins are brutal and obvious champions of evil, plaguelords spread death more subtly. They are adept at concealing their true nature, and it delights their sense of irony to pretend to be true paladins, feigning good deeds while laying waste to communities with their diseases.

Infiltrator (Ex): The plaguelord lacks an Aura of Evil. He still takes additional damage from a paladin’s smite evil ability.

Obfuscation (Su): The plaguelord may choose any alignment. When someone attempts to determine his alignment magically the plaguelord makes a will save against the spell. This occurs automatically and does not inform the plaguelord the attempt has been made. If he succeeds on the save, he detects as the alignment chosen. He may change his apparent alignment once per day as a full round action. This ability replaces Detect Good.

Disease Collector (Ex): At 3rd level, the plaguelord does not recover from diseases without magical aid (though he still takes no penalty from them). When the plaguelord inflicts a disease through an antipaladin spell or class feature he may choose to inflict a disease he is infected with instead of choosing from the normal list. If he is magically cured of a disease he becomes Sickened for 1d6 rounds. This ability replaces Plague Bringer.

Aura of Disease (Su): At 3rd level, all creatures within 10 feet of the plaguelord take a -4 penalty on saving throws against diseases. This does not stack with the penalty from Aura of Despair. The ability continues to function if the plaguelord is asleep naturally, but not if he is unconscious by another means or under a magical sleep effect, or dead. This ability replaces Aura of Cowardice.

False healing (Su): The plaguelord gains the Sickened cruelty at 3rd level, the Diseased cruelty at 6th level, and the Nauseated cruelty at 9th level, but never gains any other cruelties. The plaguelord’s Touch of Corruption ability appears to glow with holy light and cannot heal undead. Beginning at 6th level, it can be used to heal other living creatures as well as harm them, though he cannot use it to heal himself. When he uses Touch of Corruption to heal it secretly tries to infect the target with a disease as though he had used the Diseased cruelty, except that the disease has its normal incubation period. This ability alters Touch of Corruption and Cruelty.

Channel Plague: The antipaladin’s Channel Energy ability uses the Variant Channel: Disease, even if he does not worship a deity whose portfolio encompasses disease. This ability alters Channel Negative Energy.

Deceiver: At 4th level when the plaguelord prepares spells he may choose 1 spell from the paladin spell list and prepare it as though it were on his spell list. In addition, he adds Misdirection to his spell list, because for some reason it is not on the antipaladin list already. At 15th level the number of paladin spells he may choose increases by 1. This ability alters Spells.

Swift Plague (Sp): At 11th level as a swift action the plaguelord may cause a creature within thirty feet that is infected with a disease to immediately suffer its penalty. If the disease is still within its onset period, the period also ends. A Fort save against the disease’s DC negates this effect. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this ability again for 24 hours. He may use this ability 3 times per day + Charisma modifier. This ability replaces Aura of Vengeance.

Epidemic (Sp): At 20th level, he may conduct a 10 minute ritual to cast Cursed Earth (Plague only) with no material component once per week. If he uses the ability again the previous effect ends. In addition, the DC of his diseases (those he inflicts through spells or abilities or directly through natural infection) is equal to 10+half his antipaladin level+Char mod. This ability replaces Unholy Champion.


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Yeah, I'd suggest aberrant, and carnifex rather than mawloc (those are clearly serpentine, but that base form has worse stats for what you seem to be looking for giving them a bunch of limbs is very inefficient). Tyranid are technically closer to bipedal, but I agree quadruped is near enough and is more efficient. Until you have enough evolution points and natural attacks allowed its second set of arms can be vestigial. At 1st level it would just be:

Abberrant, quadrapedal shape
default evolutions, claws. That gives you three primary natural attacks, and will get you started.

By 9th level it's really taken shape. It's got immunity to mind-affecting, which works with the hivemind thing tyranid have (though I don't know if there's any relevant lore or just the appearance you want), and 8 evolution points without extra evolution feats.

Those could be:

default evolutions, claws, limbs [arms], claws again (bringing it to the max 5 natural attacks and giving it the classic tyranid four armed functionality + bite) energy attacks [acid], and leaves you with 2 evolution points to spend on whatever you think fits best - rend, poison, ability increase, scent, skilled [stealth], natural armor, and the ability to increase that to four spare points by taking extra evolution twice.
You could spend that on pounce (with a point left over), breath weapon (which is awful but worth wasting the points for noxious bite), or large size.


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yukongil wrote:
I've always been vastly underwhelmed when playing a Witch and their spell list. It never feels fully thematic, I think more illusion and necromancy spells would help it and far more dips into druidic spells as well.

On that subject, it would be nice if patrons were a little more impactful. It's good they can give access to spells not normally on the witch list, but their only effect being spells known means you're likely to forget who your patron even is except at level up. I could see being able to cast patron spells spontaneously to make it feel a bit more present.


ErichAD wrote:


Then someone decides to paint its portrait and animate the portrait.

It seems a little silly, but I guess that works. It looks like someone trying to game the system to get the most bang for their buck from a tromp l'oeil, but it hinges on a very unlikely creature existing and sitting for its portrait in the first place, so a DM who let it get that far would deserve what they got.

Not sure what a lot of this is supposed to be but I suspect they're falling into the same error I've seen before, that you can just make up a trompe l'oiel of whatever you imagine instead of it being a portrait of a creature that exists. Last time I think someone was trying to paint a devilbound creature whose contract was being permanently enslaved to the painter - who obviously was not even a devil.


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Phantom Blade Fractured Mind Spiritualist would replace everything except the capstone, and there's an alternate capstone you can take without archetypes. Phantom Blade replaces everything to do with the phantom, Fractured Mind swaps out all the spell-like abilities (and as a bonus effectively alters cantrips as well as spells by swapping casting to Cha base).
I guess they don't actually stack though, because while Fractured Mind doesn't replace or alter your emotional focus or phantom, it does assume that your phantom has one, and the Phantom Blade replaces the phantom entirely. Requires pretty mild GM permissiveness.


The Crimson Countess doesn't get dark focus, so you don't have any greater incentive to specialize in a particular discipline. With 32 you could buy:

Str 8
Dex 16
Con 15
Int 16
Wis 12
Cha 14
(The last two can be switched depending if you want better Will and Sense Motive or more flexible social skills)

With dhampir adjustment and putting the lvl 4 stat boost into Con that gives you:

8
18
14
18
12
14

Student of Philosophy is probably the best trait for social skills, let's you use Int for Diplomacy to persuade and Bluff to lie. Bruising Intellect is also good and lets you use Int for Intimidate, but they're both social traits and the first sounds like a better fit.

I view Grasp of Darkness as pretty much mandatory if you want to use boosts or counters, would suggest:
1 Weapon Finesse
3 Deadly Agility
5 Grasp of Darkness

For maneuvers I'd view top picks as:
Circular Stance (1-ST) - cheap stance remains awesome against sneak attackers
Fading Strike (2-VM) - excellent maneuverability boost, worth picking up even if it's your only veiled moon maneuver
Garnet Lance (2-ST)- straightforward ignore DR
Sanguine Barrier (2-ST) - Needs Sense motive but lets you fully negate an attack
Word of Retribution (2-CR) - makes you feel okay about getting crit by the boss, needs curse
Dogpile Strike (3-CR) - awesome if you have melee allies, decent without, doesn't need curse
Scarlet Eye's Perception (3-ST) - when you need to hit something


Magnathor wrote:

so barbarian seems like a more realistic solution? or what else?

I'm gonna re-up my suggestion of the Deepwater Rager barbarian archetype here, because its Spiraling Charge ability is extremely good for a character with pounce. It mostly gets around the worst enemy of charge builds - "the dark priest/vile alchemist/corrupt noble stands behind an altar/his work station/his bodyguards".


Derklord wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:

:

Shifter's Rush and especially Planar Wild Shape should be a priority for you

I disagree. You don't have many uses with only 4 levels in Shifter, and I don't think the effect is that good. If you don't spend your uses on Planar Wild Shape, you don't usually need Shifter's Rush, either.

A good feat to look at is Mutated Shape - high wisdom requirement, but a free primary attack is nice.

I agree regarding Planar Wild Shape, although if I were getting my wisdom to 19 for Mutated Wild Shape anyway I might pick it up.

But strongly disagree about Shifter's Rush. With limited uses of Wild Shape it becomes more important to be able to shift instantly. 4 hours is plenty for combat, but it's not that long outside of combat and a weredeinonychus is...visible.

If you're travelling through wilderness, there's a good chance you'll get ambushed at some point. You don't have the wild shape to just stay combat ready the whole time, but you don't want to spend the first turn shifting. In almost all cases, Rush takes care of that. Exploring a ruin? Probably fights in there but you don't always know when. Expect (or plan) for a parley to end in violence? If you show up as a dinosaur it's gonna be a tipoff.


Agree with Wonderstell, if you want to transform and deal damage you can take 4 weretouched deinonychus shifter levels then multiclass never look back. Shifter claw damage progression is awful anyway, it's not a meaningful loss.

With 5 primary natural attacks and pounce from those 4 levels you have great flexibility and can really do whatever you feel like.

Wisdom doesn't have to be a priority stat for you, although it's certainly a viable option. Defensive instinct for 1+1/2 of your wisdom bonus? Not really worth investing in. You can multiclass into something with heavy armor proficiency and wear stoneplate. Are you really ever likely to need to spend more than 4 or 5 hours a day in your deinonychus form? Nope, especially when you take shifter's rush and can shift at a moment's notice. Some of the wild shape feats that do have wisdom reqs are nice, but you don't need them.

As mentioned if you do want to use defensive instinct you can go warpriest, inquisitor, druid, though the loss of spell progression hurts. Ninja also benefits from wisdom and sneak attack works well with 5+ natural attacks, so think about rogue and vivisectionist alchemist too.

Most martial or mostly-martial classes can work with it, but make special note of the Deepwater Rager barbarian archetype, which hugely opens up your ability to pounce and to pick your target when you do so. The archetype doesn't give much after 2nd level, but it doesn't take much either. You can multiclass again after or not. You can also get a gore attack through lesser fiend totem.


Still playing 1e in two campaigns, as player and GM. Both homebrew. No intent to switch. The first is nearing its end, the other pretty early but has a bunch of homebrew stuff made for 1e and we're using Psionics and Path of War. One player was interested in trying it, another definitely doesn't want to learn a new system.

Player campaign, 12th level
Tiefling magus (me)
Gnome shaman
Lizardfolk brawler/barbarian

GM campaign, 3rd level
Dhampir stalker
Skinwalker warlord
Vishkanya psychic/psion


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Slim Jim wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
What are you going to do with a bomb in melee? Drop it at your feet and take them out with you?
The whole point of this thread is to make a melee alchemist who doesn't trade out bombs.
That's not what either the thread title or the first post says. Let's take a look:
The First Post wrote:
I know that Vivisectionist is the best ultimate super melee alchemist that everyone online loves beyond all other. But personaly I dont like trading away bombs... Having a good ranged attack can be good for a melee character too, And Bombs are not just damage, They can be so useful with all their utility aswell!
Someone indicating that they don't like giving something up does not parse to meaning that retaining said thing is "the whole point" of the thread when they did not say so.

The whole point was an melee alchemist with bombs because that's what they asked for.

1. I know [thing] is best.
2. But I don't like [aspect] of [thing].
3. Can anyone suggest [alternate thing]?

Means that [aspect] is a dealbreaker. It's literally the only reason they gave for not just using a vivisectionist.

Everyone else understood this because it's obvious, and there are you complaining directly to the OP about rejecting your suggestion because it ignored what they asked for and arguing that you technically fulfilled it because the Oxford English dictionary defines the word "like" as...


1. Unless it deals negative energy damage, no. Brilliant energy weapons still deal their normal damage type.
Depending on the situation as a GM I might allow the scythe to do so, though probably only while charged, but this is based on "seems cool and makes sense", not the rules.
2. No. The antipaladin would have to expend two uses of Touch of Corruption to use their Channel Energy class feature.


ErichAD wrote:

I'm not sure it's as clear as it seems at first. It doesn't give a specific trigger like "Bodyguard" or "Step Up and Strike", and it doesn't explicitly replace the normal AoO like "Stand Still".

I'm not sure you can use this at all honestly, you can't spend AoO's without a trigger or a feat that lets you use them in some new situation and this feat provides neither.

Unless you are deliberately trying to interpret in a way that makes it not work, it's pretty obvious it "triggers" when you could make an AoO with your unarmed strike as normal. The wording "you can make an attack of opportunity with an unarmed strike to deliver a humiliating swat to the target" just indicates you can't use it with with any other weapon.

The only ambiguity I see is whether this replaces the normal damage of the AoO, or whether it's an added effect. I assume the humiliating swat overwrites normal AoO damage and "you inflict 1 point of nonlethal damage" regardless of other modifiers but it doesn't explicitly say so. It could benefit from the word "instead" inserted somewhere.

You enter the style as a swift action as normal, and while in the style gain the ability, when you make an AoO with an unarmed strike, to either deal damage as normal or deliver a humiliating swat.

It's somewhat limited (particularly as the Charisma-based DC makes Scaled Fist a near-necessity for monks), but synergizes well with Medusa's Wrath. If you stagger them when they provoke during their turn, they're still staggered when your turn rolls around. Otherwise you can use flurry of blows and replace one of your attacks a trip attempt with Greater Trip and/or Vicious Stomp to make them provoke an AoO.


I overlooked that Sharesister almost certainly doesn't work - the duration on the player is the bonus and expires, all you can do with it is give your familiar permanent negative levels. So scratch that +3 spell DC, oops, that's a blow. I also noticed that the wording on the Putrefactor's fimiliar is "their duration continues until the next time she disgorges it", which read strictly means any spells on it expire when you disgorge it - so you technically can't even do what I thought was the intended use, giving it buffs before combat then throwing it up.

Reviewing paladin/antipaladin auras for Bestow Auras I'm assuming that it works with any paladin or antipaladin class feature with "Aura" in the name, but of course a lot of them give no benefit from inside.

Base paladin: 3rd level Aura of Courage, +4 on saves against fear; 17th level Aura of Righteousness, +4 on saves against compulsion

Forest Preserver: 8th level Fireproof Aura, +2 on saves against fire, fire resist 5, bonus doubled and gain evasion vs fire if you're a plant (possible); 14th level Aura of Preservation, Spell resistance 11+ paladin level if you're a plant or animal; 17th level Aura of Righteousness.
Okay we've found a decent option if you're a vine leshy.

Enlightened paladin: 3rd level Aura of Excellence; 11th level Aura of Perfection, both extremely situational bonuses against misfortune-type effects; 17th level Aura of Righteousness

Gray Paladin: Base auras + 11th level Aura of Subtlety, +4 morale vs divination, nondetection

Hospitaler: Base auras + 11th level Aura of Healing, Immune to bleed, automatically stabilize, and while it can only give you the healing once, as written would let you reroll one saving throw a day (dubious)

Kraken Slayer: Base auras + 14th level Aura of Elusion, gain half the paladin's level vs grappling stuff

Martyr: Base auras + 3rd level Aura of Health, +4 vs diseases

Oathbound paladins:
Oath Against Corruption: 3rd level +1 sacred bonus on saves against aberrations, 17th level Righteousness
Oath Against the Way: Base auras + 8th level Aura Against Necromancy +2 morale bonus against necromancy effects
Oath Against Undeath: Base auras + 8th Aura of Life, level +2 morale bonus against negative level effects
Oath of the
Oath the People's Council: Base auras + 11th level +4 vs phantasm illusions

Wilderness Warden: 3rd level Aura of Comfort, +4 on con checks vs various environment effects; Aura of Purity, +2 vs poison & disease; 17th level Aura of Righteousness

Base antipaladin: All harmful and thus useless

Insinuator: 3rd level Aura of Ego, +2 vs fear; 8th level Aura of Ambition, +1 to all saves

Seal-Breaker: 8th level Aura of Death, +2 profane bonus on all saves if you're undead.

Overall some not bad bonuses, although it's somewhat redundant with the protection from x effects. Unless you can hold a very weird talent show it's gonna be tricky to get more than a few of these active on your familiar at once though, assuming the castings can stack for separate auras.


Right, also immunity to natural attacks from basically all summoned creatures (there might be some Summon Nature's Ally options it misses?)

Okay reviewing I found this in regards to spells like Arcane Concordance:

"
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.
"

How would people parse this? Given that it says "usually" I would read it as their effects become irrelevant if they...actually become irrelevant, which is what would *usually* happen, but I can understand the reading that effectively only the last one ever applies (though it's very poorly worded it so).

I see three ways this can work:

1. There's no point in casting Arcane Concordance multiple times, pick the version you like most and enjoy the free metamagic.
2. If you have four castings you can cast the spell with any one of the metamagic options, but only one (because you can only apply the arcane concordance metamagic feat once per spell).
3. You can cast Enlarged Extended Silent Still spells.

Option 2 is the one that seems most natural to me, option 3 seems like it requires a very generous reading.


Okay running through the spell list for good options given the restrictions laid out.

Arcane Concordance (Bard 3): A great start to the list, +1 to arcane spell DCs, free metamagic feat. Would multiple castings let you have multiple feats?

Bestow Auras (Paladin/antipaladin 3): A paladin could cast this on your familiar, granting them their aura, thus granting you the effect of their aura. So, Aura of Courage and Aura of Resolve for +4 morale vs fear and charm. An insinuator antipaladin could also give it their Aura of Ambition for an untyped +1 bonus to all saving throws. There might be other useful auras granted by other archetypes. I'm not clear on whether they would ever get the aura effect back though, so this could be a hard sell. For the most part I'm not going to list most spells that have durations affecting multiple targets like this, it's too unclear whether they would expire.

Bestow Planar Infusion I, II, III (Various, including witch 1, 4, 7): I'm not sure if any of them provide a beneficial emanation or touching effect and it seems unlikely, not looking through the book right now.

Font of Spirit Magic (shaman 3): Too many unanswered questions. If your familiar is a spirit animal does it count as having a spirit or wandering spirit? If so good, if not useless.

Spirit Call (shaman, druid 1): Same basic issue.

(Greater) Infernal Healing (various, witch 1 or 4): This doesn't affect the player, but it will give the familiar permanent fast healing so you can take the Protector archetype without worrying about how to heal it. The tumor familiar is reborn!!

Invisibility Sphere (Various 3, not witch): Permanent invisibility until you attack someone.

Magic Circle Against Good, Evil, Law, Chaos (Various 3, not witch): As discussed.

Magic Circle Against Technology (cleric, wizard 4): Sure whatever.

Thaumaturgic Circle (various 4, not witch): So you're now not protected against: True neutral non-outsiders.

Music of the Spheres (bard 5, cleric 6): Presumably the requirement to maintain concentration stops this from working.

Peerless Integrity (Various 2, not witch): Why certainly officer, you can trust me and my vermin-infested rags to return this jewel to its owner.

Sharesister (cleric, witch 3): A multiple target duration effect that requires your familiar to cast it on you, but a +3 insight bonus to spell DCs might be worth losing Protector so it has deliver touch spells, or you can use another method.

Siphon Magic (cleric, wizard, witch 5): A potentially useful tool for getting more of these spells from various lists onto your familiar, unfortunately it does require the share touch spells ability and is thus harder to use with the Protector archetype.

Siphon Might (druid, magus, wizard, summoner, witch 3): It's not a touch spell and its duration affects multiple people. In addition it's debatable whether the effect is on you and you're granting a bonus an adjacent creature, or if you put the effect on the adjacent creature. But if you can pull off getting your familiar to cast this at full caster level how do you feel about a permanent +11 enhancement bonus so Strength?

Source Severance (cleric, druid, witch 6): This one is pushing against our discussed restrictions - does an antimagic field blocked by the player's body protect that body against spells that target them? Dunno, but if so you're immune to divine or arcane magic, or maybe even both (does anyone remember, if spells have multiple modes can you cast both modes on someone?) if you don't care about casting them yourself.

Spellcasting Contract (cleric 7): Giving your familiar the ability to cast spells directly, potentially very useful. Who even cares about share touch spells?

Transfer Familiar (wizard, witch 6): Might be useful for some of these shenanigans.

Zone of Silence (bard 4): No one can ever hear you. You probably don't want this one.

So that's what I found on a hasty run through of spells. I suspect a sky-high Use Magic Device skill and some friends are needed, but assuming everything works out let's see the potential so far:

You almost certainly can get:
+2 resistance bonus on saves and deflection bonus to AC vs almost anything: Not very impressive, you'll get better items
Immunity to possession and mind control from almost anything: Now we're getting somewhere
+1 enhancement bonus to arcane spell DCs and free enlarge, extend, silent, and/or still spell on all arcane spells: Yeah pretty good, makes a big difference depending if it's one of those or all of them.
Constantly appearing to be lawful good, +2 circumstance bonus to bluff and diplomacy checks
Invisibility until you attack someone, but you can only reset it but throwing up the familiar
A untargetable Protector familiar with fast heal 4 that is a decent substitute for the old tumor familiar, unless this catches on and it gets errattaed too.

That's not bad, and I'm sure there's a lot of things people could find.

Now if we use more permissive rulings (notably that an effect on the familiar persists even if the effect is from another person and expires on them, which I believe is technically RAW) we can also get:

+11 enhancement bonus to Strength
Another +3 insight bonus to the DC of spells, arcane or otherwise

Depending on how you rule the emanation effect, you can also get immunity to divine or arcane magic or both.

Overall pretty happy with this as a start, thanks for pointing out the initial issue and how it could still be made to work


Decimus Drake wrote:
If the witch casts Magic Circle against Evil on the familiar and then swallowed it would the witch still gain the benefit of the spell? While it could be argued that the witch's body might block line of effect for other creates it would be pretty ridiculous to say the witch isn't effected.

Yes, I'd say any effect that emanates from the familiar or requires the familiar to be touching the target (but not one that requires them to touch the target) would function on the witch. So a magic circle works, and a celestial familiar's heavenly touch works (I think? That one may depend on how you interpret the wording, but if it's an ability the familiar gains until they stop touching the person or time runs out it works).

I don't see a reason you couldn't get magic circle against evil, law, chaos, and good cast on it to get the bonus against most enemies. Perhaps this can still work.


avr wrote:
Dunno that your familiar has line of effect to the enemies while swallowed. It'd work I think if you cast the spell, then the enemy is affected, then you swallow the familiar, but not if you cast the spell and swallow the familiar before meeting the enemy.

Aw that's a shame. Yeah I forgot about line of effect, that ruins it. You can still get some benefits out of it (ones that only depend on it touching you), but the main benefit probably doesn't work.

Well you could argue about whether your body counts as a solid barrier - after it's not like an aura stops working on the second row if there are two rows of people blocking a passage, but you've started to quibble with the GM at that point. If they can't target the familiar, probably your body counts blocking line of effect.


If leveling up as a witch or another class that will advance the familiar abilities, the Protector archetype seems like the obvious option. It can't utilize Bodyguard, but still gives a powerful defensive bonus at 5th and 11th levels (at which point it's basically doubling your health), like a cut-rate tumor familiar before they disallowed that option.

Potentially inconvenient though, because you can't heal the familiar without coughing it up and running down the time on its spells. Some of those might be measured in rounds, or acquired through Use Magic Device or hiring a caster.

Real shame we can't take the Figment archetype for it.

If you can contrive a way to make it a bloodline familiar the Celestial one can grant you fast healing.


I'm intrigued by the Putrefactor witch archetype's unusual familiar ability, and am looking for effects that utilize it. It gains:

"While within her, the familiar cannot be targeted for effects or take any action, but effects affecting it persist, and their duration continues until the next time she disgorges it."

So what I'm looking for is spells and other effects that benefit people nearby or in contact, but don't require the person affected to take any action to make them work.

One example of this kind of spell is:

"
Archon's Aura
School evocation [good, lawful]; Level cleric/oracle 3, paladin 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range 20 ft.
Area 20-ft. radius centered on you
duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell resistance yes

DESCRIPTION
You gain a powerful aura, similar to an archon’s aura of menace. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of you must make a Will save to resist the effects of this aura. If the creature fails, it takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and saving throws and to Armor Class for the duration of this spell, or until it successfully hits you with an attack.
"

You can cast it on your familiar because of share spells, then you swallow the little guy. The effect persists and never expires, and because the familiar is swallowed they can't even hit it to negate the effect, so you're just permanently giving nearby enemies the penalty.

You load up your familiar with as many spells as you can, swallow it, and only hock the thing up when you get extra spells to empower it with or get another spell level and want to use Heighten spell to increase the DC.

The Putrefactor gains this ability at 1st level and it's not a great archetype overall, so dipping a level just to get the familiar seems like a good option unless there's enough stuff on the witch tree to make it worthwhile.

Or am I overlooking something that stops this from working? (Beyond your GM throwing a book at you.)


The Deepwater Rager would be an awesome archetype to dip into barbarian for.

It gains Spiraling Charge at 2nd level, which means not worrying about charge lanes so long as you're not actively moving further away from your enemy. Archetype doesn't give you much after 2nd level so you can multiclass again, but that's a huge charge bonus and it's a combat's worth of rage a day. Oh and Strong Lungs lets you do a raptor screech from Jurassic Park.


1. It should be average, like an animal companion.
2. Yeah, would think so.
3. Don't see any reason why not.
4. Not sure, sorry. Definitely should have an exemption for you.
5. This seems like an oversight, it should be 4+ Int mod.
6. Well it's more of an issue I guess for the incorporeal phantom, which is more prone to things like going through walls to check what's on the other side. On the other hand, in combat it really sucks if turning a corner banishes your phantom. So that might be intended.
7. The spiritualist is the one performing the action, you provoke.
8. RAW no, but it's an eminently reasonable and obvious house rule.


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Dave Justus wrote:

It is a hard choice to make if referring to the real world.

Since in the real world magic doesn't work they would only be worth their aesthetic or intrinsic material value. We don't know what combined items look like, so the first is impossible to judge. The vast majority of items don't describe precisely what they are made of either, so the second is hard to determine as well.

There. I have answered as a real person in the real world.

Well the Helm of Brilliance contains 10 "large" diamonds and 20 rubies, 30 fire opals, 40 opals. Those are integral to its functioning, so any fusion with it should still contain them. That's gotta be worth a lot. The Crown of Heaven is described as being made of gold bejeweled with diamonds and sapphires.

So if I personally in the real world with no magic could have a fusion of two magic items, those would be it?

In all seriousness, the 2nd person is used to refer to both players and characters constantly, everywhere. If you were unaware of this, you now know and should understand why your OP was easily misunderstood. If you were aware of this, don't act like people are being stupid or malicious by not abiding by your individual arbitrary standards of expression which you did not explain. You communicated your premise poorly, it's fine.


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The outside answer is of course one of history - lawful evil and chaotic evil fiends came first and got all the focus, Pathfinder copied this, and when they put neutral evil fiends in they didn't bother adding a new language for them.

My opinion is that they should have one, which in keeping with the other fiendish languages is called abaddoni.

Abyssal seems to delight in its own irregularity and variety of expression. Infernal follows strict rules but of such complexity it can seem as disordered as abyssal to the novice speaker, full of homophones and words that change their meaning entirely with the addition of an apostrophe.
By contrast, a scholar who sets out to learn the tongue of daemons will find it a refreshingly straightforward endeavor to begin with, though this blessing sours once they learn the language better.

Most consider it extremely ugly, short sentences made from a combination of hisses and clacks and guttural noises, the most unpleasant of which seem reserved for words such as life, mercy, charity. The language also lacks synonyms or common idioms and its grammatical structure is rigid, hampering attempts to express a concept in multiple ways. As a result creating abadonni poetry is immensely difficult.

The limitations also encourage conversation that is brief and to the point, minimizing the time one must speak to another. It lacks loan words entirely - new words are created when necessary, and proper nouns that last long enough (such as the name of a world or god) are given new names in abadonni.

The only area the language seems given to any creativity is in words relating to pain and death. Some of these may be mistaken for synonyms, but in fact represent distinct acts that are usually lumped together - few mortal tongues, for example, have single separate words for being devoured alive by beasts, and being devoured alive by the larvae hatching from one's own flesh.

To be truly fluent requires memorizing hundreds of terms for all the forms of suffering that could befall the student. As such it is advised to make sure one is of stable mind, for malaise can spawn from the study of this vile tongue.


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When to tell them varies wildly depending on the campaign and it's not about level. If you intend to get any use out of your social identity obviously the players need to know, so the impact of such a revelation is muted.

I'd just wait for a good opportunity to present itself, if it's taking too long prompt the DM and they can try to create one.

It's also completely fine for your allies to just know from the start. If you're starting at low level you can make creating your identity part of your interaction with them. It's very common for superheroes (which is not exactly what vigilantes are but it is a valid comparison) to have a close group that knows their secret.


doomman47 wrote:
One think that I think would be cool to add though it would not be directly added to the class would be a special weapon either a new weapon or a weapon modification one can add to melee weapons were it is specially notched so poison applied to the blade is more efficient, increasing the dc by 1 and making the poison application to the blade last 1 round longer.

For a specific weapon the sanpkhang already exists (probably not ideal for this character but it feels cheesy to just make a better version).

Not messed with weapon modifications much (most of the few existing ones seem like...not a great use of money), but this seems roughly on par:

Venom-applying
Price +2,000 gp Weight +1 lb

The weapon contains a venom channel designed to funnel poison directly into an enemy's veins. Only piercing weapons can have the venom-applying modification.
This modification can be added to a syringe spear without increasing its weapon category, but doing so increases the cost by 2,000 gp.

When you strike an opponent with a poisoned venom-applying weapon, the DC of the poison increases by 1, or 2 if delivered as part of a critical hit or sneak attack.


doomman47 wrote:
Aldrakan wrote:
Also technically Aura of Cowardice removes fear immunity from allies too, which would be bad if replicated here.
No it doesn't since that line is built upon the previous text which only targets enemies.

It's not, nothing in that sentence is dependent on the previous text. It is phrased as a separate effect of the ability. "Creatures" has a different definition from "enemies", and enemies is just as easy to write if that's what they meant (Which...they clearly did. They just messed up the wording so it says something else). This is academic, I did assume the obvious intention in design. They are weak against non-good poison immune things, a weakness that most poison-focused archetypes have worse.

Apart from that I agree with the changes you suggested, and the revised archetype is below.

Toxic Defiler

An ancient order of daemonic founding, the chosen weapon of a toxic defiler is poison, whether it is dropped in a well, sprinkled on food, or spread on a blade. While toxic defilers are devoted to the destruction of all life down to the smallest blade of grass, they are taught to find beauty in their work and its tools, and as such are often unexpectedly affable. Many are fond of animals, provided they are sufficiently poisonous. and they will often take on apprentices to continue their work.

The toxic defiler adds Sleight of Hand and Knowledge: Nature to his list of class skills, and loses Knowledge: Religion and Spellcraft.

Well of Venom:
At 3rd level enemies within 10 feet of the toxic defiler gain a -2 penalty on saving throws against poison, and if they are good-aligned lose immunity to poison. This penalty stacks with Aura of Sin. A poison that was applied while a creature was not immune to poison is not affected if it regains this immunity. This ability functions only while the toxic defiler remains conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.
This ability replaces of Aura of Cowardice.

Assimilate Toxin:
At 3rd level the toxic defiler becomes immune to poison. In addition, when he is exposed to a poison he may choose to assimilate it as an immediate action. Once per day, he may expel a dose of his assimilated poison from his mouth as a full-round action.
As part of this action, he may attempt to apply this poison in one of the following ways: If it is an injury poison he may apply it to a weapon. If it is a contact poison he may make a melee touch attack to inflict it. If it is an ingested poison he may add it to a piece of food or drink within reach. If it is an inhaled poison he may create a 5 foot cloud of poison in an adjacent square that lasts one round.
This ability replaces Plague Bringer.

Virulent Touch:
At 3rd level the toxic defiler gains the ability to poison creatures he damages with his touch of corruption ability. When a creature fails a saving throw against his touch of corruption and takes damage, it also becomes poisoned. His touch of corruption benefits from the save reduction of his well of venom ability. The poison he inflicts has the following statistics:

Toxic Love
Type: Injury
Onset: -
Duration: Equal to his Charisma modifier
DC: 10 + ½ toxic defiler level + Charisma modifier
Effect: When the toxic defiler inflicts this poison, he chooses a statistic for it to damage. If he chooses Constitution, the damage die is reduced by one step. If he successfully uses toxic love against a creature that is already inflicted with it, it will increase the DC by 2 and the duration by half as normal, and in addition he may change the type of damage it is dealing. The condition the poison inflicts expires when the poison does. The damage and condition inflicted by this poison improves 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter as shown below:

3: 1d2/round, fatigued
6: 1d3/round, fatigued
9: 1d3/round, sickened
12: 1d4/round, sickened
15: 1d4/round, staggered
18: 1d4/round to 2 statistics, staggered

This ability replaces Cruelties.

Death All Around Me (Ex):
The toxic defiler gains a bonus equal to half his level (minimum 1) on checks to create poisons using Craft: Alchemy or to milk a creature for poison using Handle Animal. Starting at 4th level, the time it takes him to perform these actions is halved.

This ability replaces Channel Negative Energy.

Tainted Blade:
Starting at 5th level, the toxic defiler may apply a dose of poison to a weapon as a move action. He may expend a use of his touch of corruption ability to apply a dose of toxic love. He selects which statistic the poison will damage upon application. He may have toxic love applied to a maximum number of weapons at a time equal to his Charisma modifier. Attempting to exceed this number causes the oldest poison to expire.
This ability replaces Fiendish Boon.

Venomstorm:
At 11th level, the toxic defiler may expend two uses of his smite good ability as a free action to apply a dose of toxic love to all weapons wielded by his allies (or a piece of their ammunition) within 60 feet. All doses damage the same statistic, chosen when this ability is used. The poison remains until expended or for 1 minute, whichever is shorter, and does not count against his maximum number of doses applied.
This ability replaces Aura of Vengeance.

Poison Sludge:
At 20th level, a toxic defiler becomes a pool of poison within a shell of skin. He gains the ooze type. Do not recalculate his base attack bonus, hit points, proficiencies, saving throws, or skills, or statistics. He gains blindsight 30. He is not rendered blind, but may render his eyes functional or nonfunctional as an immediate action (deciding whether to have the benefits and vulnerabilities of sight).
He may choose to assume the form of a large ooze as a swift action. While in this form he cannot wear armor or wield weapons. Although he can carry them and other objects within his ooze, he gains no benefit from them, unlike other magical items he had equipped. He gains a swim and climb speed equal to his movement speed, a bonus to natural armor equal to his Charisma modifier, the compression ability, and two slam attacks that deal bludgeoning damage equal to his touch of corruption damage and have the poison ability (toxic love). In addition, he may pass through any opening that is not airtight as a full-round action, although he may be unable to bring items with him. He may return to his original form as a standard action and may choose to reform within a suit of clothing or armor, effectively equipping it.
This ability replaces Unholy Champion.


I'd say it doesn't work. The original android has died of old age.


Warriorking9001 wrote:
Aldrakan wrote:
There is the amazingly-named "Vindictive Bastard" class which has that feel and is decent.
Source?

Antihero's Handbook.


There is the amazingly-named "Vindictive Bastard" class which has that feel and is decent.


doomman47 wrote:

Well of venom should remove poison immunity to all enemies not just good aligned since the aura its replacing also doesn't care about alignment and its penalty should also be -4.

Well of Venom does stack with Aura of Despair, so it gets up to -4. The DC of his poison can already be higher than most at low levels. But it should be made explicit that they stack, given the ability it's replacing doesn't.

I'm comfortable having it only affect good-aligned creatures. Venomstorm, unlike Aura of Vengeance, works just as well against non-good creatures, so it's more shuffling around their weakness. Also technically Aura of Cowardice removes fear immunity from allies too, which would be bad if replicated here.

doomman47 wrote:


I also feel like the assimilate toxin should not have a limit on poisons since with plague bringer you can have ALL of the diseases and then just touch some one and make them need to save vs All of them.

Most diseases have no effect mid-combat, and many are not applied through touch, so I think that's overstating how closely they are equivalent. It's also vague on whether they "recover" from diseases, losing the ability to spread them, plus you generally can't do to a store and purchase the deadliest disease available.

Although I did actually make a disease-focused anti-paladin archetype a while back: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t9fc?Plaguelord
I suppose eventually I might make a fear-focused archetype that's not malfunctioning garbage like the Fearmonger.

doomman47 wrote:


The other abilities look fine though I would change the eye closeing ability from the cap stone to an imidiate action instead of a standard.

I also feel like they should get a half level bonus to craft alchemy(poisons only) thrown in there somewere.

Making it immediate is probably a good idea.

I did consider giving that crafting bonus, but the anti-paladin is so starved for skill points that it seemed like a waste. I guess it could replace Channel Negative Energy, which doesn't have a ton of use for them.


Toxic Defiler (Anti-Paladin archetype)

An ancient order of daemonic founding, the chosen weapon of a toxic defiler is poison, whether it is dropped in a well, sprinkled on food, or spread on a blade. While toxic defilers are devoted to the destruction of all life down to the smallest blade of grass, they are taught to find beauty in their work and its tools, and as such are often unexpectedly affable. Many are fond of animals, provided they are sufficiently poisonous. and they will often take on apprentices to continue their work.

The toxic defiler adds Sleight of Hand and Knowledge: Nature to his list of class skills, and loses Knowledge: Religion and Spellcraft.

Well of Venom:
At 3rd level enemies within 10 feet of the toxic defiler gain a -2 penalty on saving throws against poison, and if they are good-aligned lose immunity to poison. A poison that was applied while they were not immune to poison is not affected if they regain this immunity. This ability functions only while the toxic defiler remains conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.
This ability replaces of Aura of Cowardice.

Assimilate Toxin:
At 3rd level the toxic defiler becomes immune to poison. In addition, when he is exposed to a poison he may choose to assimilate it as an immediate action. Once per day, he may expel a dose of his assimilated poison from his mouth as a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. The dose will remain potent for 24 hours, and he may only have one type of poison assimilated at a time.
This ability replaces Plague Bringer.

Virulent Touch:
At 3rd level the toxic defiler gains the ability to poison creatures he damages with his touch of corruption ability. When a creature fails a saving throw against his touch of corruption and takes damage, it also becomes poisoned. His touch of corruption benefits from the save reduction of his well of venom ability. The poison he inflicts has the following statistics:

Toxic Love
Type: Injury
Onset: -
Duration: Equal to his Charisma modifier
DC: 10 + ½ toxic defiler level + Charisma modifier
Effect: When the toxic defiler inflicts this poison, he chooses a statistic for it to damage. If he chooses Constitution, the damage die is reduced by one step. If he successfully uses toxic love against a creature that is already inflicted with it, it will increase the DC by 2 and the duration by half as normal, and in addition he may change the type of damage it is dealing. The condition the poison inflicts expires when the poison does. The damage and condition inflicted by this poison improves 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter as shown below:

3: 1d2/round, fatigued
6: 1d3/round, fatigued
9: 1d3/round, sickened
12: 1d4/round, sickened
15: 1d4/round, staggered
18: 1d4/round to 2 statistics, staggered

This ability replaces Cruelties.

Tainted Blade:
Starting at 5th level, the toxic defiler may apply a dose of poison to a weapon as a move action. He may expend a use of his touch of corruption ability to apply a dose of toxic love. He selects which statistic the poison will damage upon application. He may have toxic love applied to a maximum number of weapons at a time equal to his Charisma modifier. Attempting to exceed this number causes the oldest poison to expire.
This ability replaces Fiendish Boon.

Venomstorm:
At 11th level, the toxic defiler may expend two uses of his smite good ability as a free action to apply a dose of toxic love to all weapons wielded by his allies (or a piece of their ammunition) within 60 feet. All doses damage the same statistic, chosen when this ability is used. The poison remains until expended or for 1 minute, whichever is shorter, and does not count against his maximum number of doses applied.
This ability replaces Aura of Vengeance.

Poison Sludge:
At 20th level, a toxic defiler becomes a pool of poison within a shell of skin. He gains the ooze type. Do not recalculate his base attack bonus, hit points, proficiencies, saving throws, or skills, or statistics. He gains blindsight 30. He is not rendered blind, but may render his eyes functional or nonfunctional as a standard action (deciding whether to have the benefits and vulnerabilities of sight).
He may choose to assume the form of a large ooze as a swift action. While in this form he cannot wear armor or wield weapons. Although he can carry them and other objects within his ooze, he gains no benefit from them, unlike other magical items he had equipped. He gains a swim and climb speed equal to his movement speed, a bonus to natural armor equal to his Charisma modifier, the compression ability, and two slam attacks that deal bludgeoning damage equal to his touch of corruption damage and have the poison ability (toxic love). In addition, he may pass through any opening that is not airtight as a full-round action, although he may be unable to bring items with him. He may return to human form as a standard action and may choose to reform within a suit of clothing or armor, effectively equipping it.
This ability replaces Unholy Champion.


Arcane Blade (Magus archetype)

Note: This archetype uses rules available in Path of War by Dreamscarred Press.
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Rather than empowering her attacks with spells, the arcane blade instead turns the dance of combat into the means through which she casts spells, careful footwork and deliberate stabs unleashing a flood of arcane power as she completes her spell by striking down her opponent. By making her duel part of her spell, she shields herself and her opponent as her power scorches the air around them.

Maneuvers
An arcane blade begins her career with knowledge of three martial maneuvers. The disciplines available to the arcane blade are Elemental Flux, Shattered Mirror, and Veiled Moon. An arcane blade gains Stealth as a class skill.
Once the arcane blade knows a maneuver, she must ready it before she can use it (see Maneuvers Readied, below). A maneuver usable by arcane blades is considered an extraordinary ability unless otherwise noted in it or its discipline’s description. An arcane blade’s maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when she initiates one.

The arcane blade learns additional maneuvers at higher levels, as indicated on Table: Archetype Maneuver Progression. The maximum level of maneuvers gained through arcane blade levels is limited by those listed in that table as well, although this restriction does not apply to maneuvers added to her maneuvers known through other methods, such as prestige classes or the Advanced Study feat. An arcane blade must meet a maneuver’s prerequisite to learn it. See Systems and Use for more details on how maneuvers are used.
Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even numbered initiator level thereafter (6th, 8th, 10th, and so on), the arcane blade can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one she already knows. In effect, she loses the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. She can choose a new maneuver of any level she likes, as long as she observes the restriction on the highest-level maneuvers she knows; the arcane blade need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. She can swap only a single maneuver at any given level. An arcane blade’s initiation modifier is Intelligence, and each arcane blade level is counted as a full initiator level.

Maneuvers Readied
An arcane blade can ready all three of her maneuvers known at 1st level, and as she advances in level and learns more maneuvers, she is able to ready more, but must still choose which maneuvers to ready. An arcane blade must always ready her maximum number of maneuvers readied. She readies her maneuvers by performing weapon drills for 10 minutes. The maneuvers she chooses remain readied until she decides to drill again and change them. The arcane blade does not need to sleep or rest for any long period of time in order to ready her maneuvers; any time she spends ten minutes practicing she can change her readied maneuvers.

A arcane blade begins an encounter with all her readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times she might have already used them since she chose them. When she initiates a maneuver, she expends it for the current encounter, so each of her readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (unless she recovers them, as described below).

In order for the arcane blade to recover maneuvers, she may choose to cast a spell with a casting time of a standard action as a full round action. If she does, she regains a number of maneuvers equal to her initiation modifier (minimum 2). Starting at 4th level, when she does so she may also activate her Spell Recall class feature as a free action. Alternatively, she may focus inward to regain a single expended maneuver as a standard action.

Stances Known
An arcane blade begins her career with knowledge of one stance from any discipline open to arcane blades. At 4th, 7th, 11th, and 13th levels, she can select an additional stance to learn. The maximum level of stances gained through arcane blade levels is limited by those listed in Table: Archetype Maneuver Progression. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended and the arcane blade does not have to ready them. All the stances she knows are available to her at all times, and she can change the stance she is currently maintaining as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance or discipline description.
Unlike with maneuvers, an arcane blade cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one she already knows.

This ability replaces the Magus Arcana gained at 3rd, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th levels.

Arcane Fluidity (Su):
At 1st level when an arcane blade enters combat she gains an animus pool equal to 1+ her initation modifier (minimum 1) at the start of her first turn, and adds one point of animus to her animus pool at the start of each of her turns thereafter. Her animus pool persists for one minute after the last enemy combatant is defeated or the encounter otherwise ends. At the end of any round in which the arcane blade initiates a maneuver or casts a spell, she adds an additional point of animus to her pool. Certain abilities, such as some class features, maneuvers, and feats, require the arcane blade to expend points of animus to use. The arcane blade may also expend arcane pool points as though they were animus pool points (but not vice versa).

Elemental Intensity (Su):
At 1st level whenever the arcane blade casts a spell of a type that matches an Elemental Flux element or associated damage type, if she has access to Elemental Flux maneuvers she may change her active Elemental Flux element to match that element as a free action.

In addition, if she has used her arcane pool to add a weapon enhancement that adds damage associated with an Elemental Flux element (e.g. frost or icy burst for cold), she may switch her enhancement for the equivalent that matches the spell without expending an arcane pool point or refreshing its duration.
For example, when an arcane blade with an active element of water and a flaming sword casts Shocking Grasp, because it has the [electricity] tag she could change her active element to Air, and swap the flaming enhancement for shocking.

At 5th level the arcane blade adds corrosive and corrosive burst to the list of weapon enhancements she may add to her weapon using her arcane pool.
This ability alters Arcane Pool.

Spell of Blades (Su):
Starting at first level once during her turn if the arcane blade hits a creature with a melee strike that targets one creature, she may then expend an arcane pool point as a move action to cast a magus spell. This spell cannot target the creature she targeted with her strike when it is cast, and will treat that creature as though it had been selected with the Selective Spell feat if applicable. If she wishes, she may choose to exempt herself as well. Casting a spell in this fashion does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
This ability replaces Spell Combat and Spellstrike.

Improved Spell of Blades (Su):
At 8th level, once per encounter the arcane blade may use her Spell of Blades ability as a swift action instead of a move action.
This ability replaces Improved Spell Combat.

Greater Spell of Blades (Su):
At 14th level, if the arcane blade uses her Spell of Blades ability to cast a spell that is one or more levels lower than the strike that initiated it, she may apply any metamagic feat she knows to the spell by expending an additional arcane pool point or two animus pool points for each level increase of the metamagic feat, so long as the total modified level of the spell would use a spell slot at least one level lower than that of the enabling strike and her highest spell level known.

For example, an arcane blade who used the 4th level Veiled Moon maneuver Flicker Strike and hit an opponent could then expend 3 arcane pool points, 6 animus pool points, or a combination of both, to cast an Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement at another opponent as a move action without memorizing a metamagic version of this spell.
This ability replaces Greater Spell Combat.

Dire Reprisal (Ex & Su):
At 20th level, when the arcane blade uses her Counterstrike ability, she may initiate a strike with an activation of one standard action in place of the attack of opportunity. In addition, she may always expend two animus pool points in place of an arcane pool point.
This ability replaces True Magus


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The Sideromancer wrote:
I've seen a pretty crazy use of Gift of Consumption and it's upgrade. Specifically, willingly exposing yourself to the biggest Fort-based Save-or-die in existence: a coup-de-gras.

Oh wow that works, doesn't it. You still eat the crit, but that's awesome. I'm imagining a witch being executed by beheading, then the executioner's head falls off, or the judge.


Slightly OT, but I got briefly excited about the possibility of Gloomstorm making a Gloomblade potentially a good thrown weapons build. Unfortunately the rounds/ranks limitation kills it.


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I'd say it varies from shabti to shabti based on the preferences of their creator. Obviously the bit that fools divine judgement isn't their physical resemblance to the creator, as they're described as "idealized humans", so I think it depends if the creator thought a bellybutton was a feature worth including.


You stopped your quote from the Bloodline section two words early. The next two words were "(see below)".

That's to indicate that it's not giving a full explanation of how it works in the Bloodline section, and the mechanics are in the Eldritch Pool section.

It costs 1 point.


If third party is allowed there are a couple ways in Path of War.

A Crimson Countess Harbinger can deal damage equal to level and heal 1d6 for each creature claimed as a move action, combine that with Grasp of Darkness and Dark Authority to boost claiming speed and defenses.
Silver Crane (SC) has some decent healing maneuvers, the harbinger doesn't get it natively but there are easy ways around that. Unquiet Grave also has at least one good temp HP strike.

A Sanguinist Angel of Mercy (or just Sanguinist if you arrange SC another way) Medic gets SC and can heal themselves and people around them with a blood reserve they fill by punching people. It's more of a healer but you can be selfish with it.

You're not likely to find anything that heals at a 1-1 ratio or better, but you can make yourself pretty durable by hurting people.


You do need to get someone to cast it for you because your intelligence is 2. You have reduced yourself to the level of an animal that is not capable of thinking "okay so the next step in my plan is to use my magic to cure my intelligence damage". Stats mean things.

I know everyone loves finding idiotic ways to break the game, but Awaken isn't a personal spell. There's no need to make absurd and unsupported interpretations of what something with an Int of 2 can do to make this idea work. You're just taking a procedure already dubious and stupid and making it more so for no reason.

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