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Rysky wrote:

“ If you'd just come out and plainly state what your issue is, we can address it.

Otherwise, you'll continue to be completely opaque.”

… ?

You made the claim that Pathfinder invented slot affinities, I was pointing out that that wasn’t true.

I said that Pathfinder condensed and standardized ability score increasing items to be belts for physical ability scores and headbands for mental ability scores instead of having ability score boosting items used in various slots, some of which came into conflict as in the case of Constitution and Wisdom both wanting the neck slot.

If I were arguing about Pathfinder inventing body slot affinities, I wouldn't have linked to all of the items from D&D 3.5 that do not exist because they were replaced by belts and headbands in Pathfinder in the first place.

Rysky wrote:

“Body slots had affinities which were a stated guideline, too.”

Yes, it pushed you towards specific slots and it cost more if you stepped outside that design. Not a Pathfinder Invention.

If you'd just come out and plainly state what your issue is, we can address it.

Otherwise, you'll continue to be completely opaque.

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Senko wrote:
Hmmm were-spinosaurus cowt that survived an attack?

Seems like the sort of thing that a necromancer might want to start breeding in order to make superior undead.

Azothath wrote:
a) (as I recall, just chatting) all those are legacy DnD2 items and 3.0 just carried on with them. Not a big deal really to inherit classic items. The pricing though... LoL. The pricing of magical items is a perennial issue. You see a lot of home game style come through in DnD2 & 3 items. I don't think items from magazines were looked at closely but sure filled out pages in a supplement.

Sure, they were legacy items, but that's neither here nor there, since they would have been legacy items when they were making Pathfinder, but instead they chose to standardize where ability score boosting items go on the body. I only brought them up as examples because of what was said to me.

The pricing is similarly not really something that I was particularly concerned about, so I don't think I understand where you're going with this, sorry. What do you mean and why do you bring it up? Or is it just a tangent/aside?

Azothath wrote:

b) in the rules you quoted from 3.5 at the end is a 50% cost upgrade. So I wouldn't downplay the issue of Magic Item Body Slots(MIBS).

It's true that PF got stricter with the MIBS. In previous iterations most GMs glazed over the crafting rules and MIBS wasn't as big a deal as it is now. It's a soft way to (obviously) constrain all the magic a PC carries. With these boards communication is much easier so it's not just chatting with your local...

I see the inherent issues with MAD as being way more of an issue than people being able to afford more ability score boosting items, and I think the concern about balance issues if multiple ability score boosting items can be worn is largely an exercise in actively going looking to find a problem.

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Rysky wrote:

“It's a convention they established when they made Pathfinder”

No they didn’t, it was like that in 3.5 as well.

3.5 Magic Item Crafting rules

Gauntlets of Ogre Power. Cloak of Charisma. Periapt of Wisdom. Gloves of Dexterity. Amulet of Health. All of these items were done away with when they decided to consolidate magic items so that all physical ability scores are governed by Belt slot items and all mental ability scores are governed by Headband slot items. They separated the Headband slot from the Head slot while they were at it. (They also separated the Body slot and Armor slot, IIRC.)

Body slots had affinities which were a stated guideline, too. So between that and established precedent with other items, there was certainly room for argument for, say, a Shirt of Health instead of an Amulet of Health or a Hat of Charisma instead of a Cloak of Charisma. IIRC, affinities were also further expanded in the aforementioned Magic Item Compendium.

Senko wrote:
More curiosity than anything else is there any rule saying you can't make a headband that boosts physical stats or a belt to boost mental ones?

It's a convention they established when they made Pathfinder because some specific individual or individuals involved didn't like the rules allowing for stat-boosting items to be keyed to different slots and instead they wanted to make two dedicated slots for stat-boosting items instead of having things distributed between 3-4 slots like they were in D&D 3.5.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if none of the people involved remember who was the main driving force behind that consolidation, etc.

If you want to experiment with branching out, you could look into the magic item creation rules for D&D 3.5 via what is available through the SRD or you could even look into what people have written about the expansion on the system that was created in the Magic Item Compendium, which among other things eliminated the cost multiplier for having certain essential magic items (including ability score increasing items) combined with other magic items.

How paranoid is the person running the place?

What kind of stronghold is it and what kinds of functions does it have? A feudal noble on the border's castle home is going to be different from a government structure inside of a city that does double duty serving bureaucratic functions administrating the city and acting as a redoubt within the city should the walls be breached.

How much foot traffic goes through and how many servants and minions are in play?

How rich are they and how plentiful are the more quality of life magical items? How much access to spellcasting from a trustworthy source (or themselves) do they have?

VoodistMonk wrote:
This is like the Iron Stake thing, isn't it? "Free" cold iron nails...

Except unlike Cold Iron, the stone doesn't have intrinsic value, so there's no wealth-breaking loop by setting up a self-resetting trap or at-will custom item to spam it out.

Given the limitations on Stone weapons ("Light and one-handed bludgeoning weapons, spears, axes, daggers, and arrowheads can all be made of stone."), it is of questionable utility to repurpose it as a melee weapon, except maybe for arming minions. The main utility it offers is for archers to bypass DR, and since archers are going to want to have a magic bow anyway, this trick mostly saves money on things like durable adamantine arrows, weapon blanches, etc.

OTOH, it takes a relatively high level to pull the trick off, or getting and using a scroll with a high CL and using that to make Durable stone arrows or the like.

Much more of an oddball secondary use for a spell than something that really has a lot of room for abuse.

As it is a Conjuration (Creation) spell with an Instantaneous duration, the only magic involved is in the initial creation of the stone disks and then the part that actually flings them at the targets.

Exactly how or why they count for bypassing DR is undefined, but by virtue of the nature of Conjuration (Creation) spells, it's some kind of non-magical property that persists after being created because the spell description doesn't define things otherwise.

Pellet Blast is an example of what it looks like when they write a Conjuration (Creation) spell, give it an Instantaneous duration, and are aware of the implications of doing so but then want to undo that fact using the spell description.

As it is stone, it should be a valid target for Stone Shape, but exactly how much stone is in each individual discus or how many pieces they break into after striking a target or missing and striking some other surface is completely up to the GM. Whether the stone is suitable for being shaped using nonmagical crafting is also completely up to the GM, although it probably shouldn't be ruled to basically be Talc. Generally the technology available for shaping stone seems to be a bit better than just flint-knapping tools, but the individual setting is going to modify that.

KekPafrany wrote:
Coidzor wrote:
Homunculi are within grasp with Arcane Eye appearing on the Alchemist Formula list. Mirror Image and Mending aren't the most difficult spells to get from a third party, either. The DC is pretty low, too, so with Arcane Eye, the DC is only 22, even without it, a DC of 27 is within the reach of a 6th level Alchemist, provided they can make up the 5 point difference between their +12 from skill ranks/class skill and Taking 10.

So can you ignore the CL requirements? Because a homonculi is CL7 and the rules by the construct creation definitely states that:

"Caster Level: Some constructs, especially the more powerful ones, require the creator to be of a certain caster level in order to craft them. Unlike some other crafting requirements, this requirement must be met in order to craft the construct, and cannot be ignored simply by increasing the DC of the skill check to craft the construct by 5."

I was looking for some easy-to-make constructs because I'm hitting lvl 6 with my alchemist, but this limitation makes the list really short :(
(and my DM doesn't like 3rd party contents, so that makes it even shorter)

Compare the writeup for the construction requirements of a Homunculus with that of a Clockwork Servant.


CL 7th; Price 2,050 gp

Requirements Craft Construct, arcane eye, mirror image, mending; Skill Craft (leather) or Craft (sculptures) DC 12; Cost 1,050 gp.

CL 12th; Price 7,500 gp (13,500 for an intelligent servant)

Requirements Craft Construct, geas/quest and make whole, creator must be at least caster level 12th; Skill Craft (clockwork) DC 20; Cost 4,000 gp (7,000 for an intelligent clockwork servant)

That CL 7th and CL 12th exist to peg the basic DC of crafting such a construct in the first place at CL + 5. So DC 12 and 17 respectively. It is only with the Clockwork Servant that there is any Caster Level requirement listed. The base caster level of an item or construct is not a requirement itself and is only really relevant for the DC to create it.

Clockwork Servants and a number of other constructs have a separate entry specifically detailing the required caster level in order to create them.

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PCScipio wrote:
Past 1st lvl, I always buy cold iron ammunition instead of regular.

There's no reason to buy regular arrows even at first level if stone is an option, since stone arrows do as much damage as regular arrows and are only 25 copper per 20. Fairly minimal investment allows one to make a bundle of 20 stone arrows in an hour or less just by making the DC 12 check, which pushes the cost down to a mere 8 copper. This even stays relevant for longer if Stone Discus is available, since it creates stone that bypasses certain DRs.

Trevor86 wrote:

Hey everyone,

I'm curious if there is a way to wear an otherwise very obvious item, a mask, with it being concealed to the outside world. For context, the mask is a decently powerful artefact, and predictably there's an evil cult out to get it.

Is there any concealment magic avalaible somewhere or such?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

What limitations do you have?

What kinds of abilities do the PCs have?

What kinds of NPC allies do they have?

What kind of services can they just buy?

How much time and money do you have to put into disguising it?

Can one of the party members use it? Or is there another reason why it must be worn?

If you're looking at D&D 3.5 content already, there are a bunch of types of grafts that are of interest. The Silithar Grafts in particular are ones with no real downside, while Illithid grafts, demon grafts, etc. tended to come with a downside.

If you have access to Incarnum or Akashic Mysteries, soulmelds/veils are accessible via feat investment and could be reflavored that way. Apparently there's already a way to refluff Akashic Mysteries as cybertech, for instance.

Savage Species is straight up D&D 3.0, IIRC, but if you're diving, it has a number of Wish rituals for adding subtypes and other modifications. The Tauric Creature template is also of potential interest.

You may also want to look up the Emerald Legion for an example of an IKEA Tarrasque that was template stacking, etc. to make a supersoldier.

Aside from individual variance of opinion, there's also the issue of defining what "fine" is even attempting to mean.

Most if not all classes could use some tweaks of varying complexity and scope at least somewhere, simply because there are a lot of moving parts between vanilla class features, archetypes, integral feats, and spell lists (and even the spells themselves).

On the other hand, there isn't a class that is nearly as jank as the Truenamer or that is as borked to the same extent as the Soulborn or Samurai.

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Senko wrote:

It also adds an extra layer of protection if I've translated Osiriani (arabic) into a code then you not only need to break the code but understand Osiriani to make sense of it. If your trying to decode into common then you'll fail before you even start. Plus of course there's stuff that's not spell specific such as theory or discussion on various dimensions which would still be in the base language so you have a layer of protection still there as well as with Osiriani it being stated to have a lot of precise magical terminology.

Honestly while I personally prefer dragon I think Osiriani would be a better pick both because of the flavour text and the fact if you do assume its similar to Arabic then you really need to know the language because apparently the...

Kelish is closer to some kind of hybrid of Arabic, Farsi, and Istanbul Turkish while Osiriani is not Arabic, but an evolution of Ancient Osiriani. So it's either like how Demotic or Coptic compares with Middle Egyptian.

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VoodistMonk wrote:

And there are several apps/spreadsheets built to take the guesswork out of any and all additional math associated with Sacred Geometry... I think it's somewhere around 7 ranks in Know:Engineering, and rolling the dice becomes pointless... success, roll again, still a success, like 99% of the time.

I believe that's part of why the feat is panned. Either A. it's onerous because someone is sitting there doing calculations or B. it's a complete farce because someone is using a computer to do it.

VoodistMonk wrote:
I think it's a great feat for builds that don't have room for multiple metamagic feats. I also think it offers a lot of flavor if you actually roleplay these extra calculations as part of the spellcasting process.

The flavor is, admittedly, kinda neat.

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Claxon wrote:
And if your pouncing barbarian friend and archer buddy just do there thing and full attack and kill the enemies before you can do that?

Then you weren't needed for the fight in the first place and it wasn't a serious combat if 1/2 or less of the party kills the entire encounter in one round.

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Mudfoot wrote:
There was a thread in the Homebrew section about it a couple of years ago, probably titled ...Elephant in the Room.... It's essentially about getting rid of the feat taxes for martials and condensing the Improved / Greater feats into their base versions so you get the better ones automatically.

For further reading you can check out the original blog post and the most recent version.

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Wonderstell wrote:

Permanent 3 dmg:

There are effects that only trigger when you are wounded, or disappear when you're fully healed. Bandages of Rapid Recovery would be great for the Healer's Hands/Signature Skill combo as they'd provide their +4 Hit Dice for as long as you want.

Now that's the kind of exploiting mindset that I like to see!

Wonderstell wrote:

Immediate action death:

Reincarnated Druid, or an Eldest worshiper that has summoned a Remacera through Summon Monster V, would actually prefer to just insta-die over getting captured or killed by a death effect.

What does summoning them do? Or is the idea that since they're always 3 hp down, they summon the remacera, have it bite them once, and then since they never fully heal, then whenever they die, they'll auto-reincarnate?

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I've had characters get swallowed and they could only use a dagger to cut themselves out. One time we had to have a second character get swallowed by the monster in order to give one PC a dagger because he hadn't thought he needed something like that as part of his gear and there was no way to cut him out otherwise.

I've had a lot of situations where GMs adhoc declared that it was too awkward to try to cut something with a sword or axe, but a dagger could do it no problem.

Flying enemies generally can't be Greatsworded in the face if you can't fly yourself. Even if you can fly, you still need a ranged option if they can outrun you or run circles around you in the air.

Claxon wrote:
My big problem with backup weapons is by the time you have +2 weapons the backup weapons are near worthless.

Unless you literally cannot harm the enemy without the backup weapon. A Cold Iron Morningstar is cheap and not much weight and very useful if you can't harm them with slashing damage from your +2 Greatsword or either the slashing damage or fire damage from your +1 Flaming Greatsword.

Of course, as you get +2 weapons, you should also be looking at getting alternative movement modes at least in emergency situations through things like potions if not more permanent magical items or abilities or through established tactics working with other PCs. This will minimize the situations where you would need a backup in the first place.

There are certainly mechanical limitations that make it a lot less fun, but there are use-cases unless you have a GM who deliberately avoids that kind of thing.

Claxon wrote:
You don't sell all that junk you didn't want, so you could buy things you did?

With certain GMs, it makes sense to keep some of it around since you don't have to spend money to get it and you permanently halve the gp value of stuff you get if you sell it (and don't have a party crafter).

If the GM replenishes WBL that is lost by selling for half, then the only reason to have it is for the time between when you get it and when you can liquidate it and buy more suitable replacements if replacements are even needed.

That raises a question, does a fiend's true name stay the same when they get promoted or does it change?

what better place than hell for barracks full of Undead?

Well, if you have the ability to cast Greater Create Demiplane, then one of your Demiplanes is better, since then you can open a portal to wherever you want to deploy them en masse. A bit more tricky to do that on many of the lower planes.

A lot of it boils down to the particular setting you're using.

Kasoh wrote:

I think the hardest part about 'nurturing' a chromatic dragon is that dragons live exceptionally long times, so unless its another quasi immortal being or a whole organization, the dragon will eventually be on its own and a dragon's nature is to take.

So, the long life of dragons is a problem.

The second hardest part is that a wyrmling is more like a teenager or young adult than a child, most of the time, and they enter that life stage either immediately after hatching or not all that long after hatching.

Can you influence a 21 year old? Yeah, to some extent, but not nearly as much as a 3 year old.

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I think you'll ultimately have to get rid of the restriction of Int to 1-2 for Animals and then go through Magical Beasts separating out the ones that are natural creatures in a supernatural world and which ones are unnatural creatures in a supernatural world.

That, or you have to be OK with some kind of hive-mind or Genius Locii controlling the animals.

FaezerBeam wrote:

Question: A dragon we will call Frank is killed 1000 years ago. Frank was raised as an Undead Dragon 10 years ago. Undead frank is then killed today. Would Cyclic Reincarnation work to restore Frank to a new live body? The spell says it works up to one year after the target dies, but is that from when Frank original died or 1 year from when the Undead version of Frank died (today)?

The wording of the spell is unclear with a RAW answer, but with the other stipulations of tye spell that set it apart from the standard reincarnation spell, it would SEEM that the cyclic version is intended to work in this case by RAI. Official ruling references would be appreciated, especially if anyone has seen any errata for this. Thanks folx.

Cyclic Reincarnation would not work on Frank, because he died too long ago.

Now if Frank had been under a Gentle Repose effect for those 990 years where he was just a corpse and then that Gentle Repose effect was maintained on Nega Frank, then you would have a real question on your hands.

Also, living creatures die, unliving creatures such as undead and constructs do not die, they are destroyed instead. It's a bit of a subtle distinction, but it's an important one at times.

OmniMage wrote:

Hmm... That got me thinking. *danger* If undead Frank was an intelligent undead, then got killed, then Frank was returned to life, would he have any memories of undead Frank? Because if memories are not preserved, then intelligent undead have a very good reason to try to remain undead. There isn't an after life for them. At least, not for the undead version

Though one could argue that forgetting an undead existence is a good things. The change to undead can change people in ways that make them harm friends and family. For instance, being changed to a vampire or ghoul. A revived person probably doesn't want such memories.

I think it depends on the type of undead.

A Lich or a vampire, yeah, probably. A vampire spawn or ordinary ghoul, probably not. Vampire spawn or Ghoul as a template? Now you're getting to the real tricky stuff.

Garion Beckett wrote:
Now what I am looking for is someone that can take over command of a bunch of undead if i go down

In what sense? As in literally cast Command Undead on mindless undead or use the Command Undead feat to get them in a control pool?

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
I remember someone seriously using this logic in organized play and this post gave me flashbacks.

Was it a bloodbath?

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I believe the TPA represents standing with the faction.

Master Performer and Grand Master Performer are what you're referring to, correct?

+4 to your allies attack and damage via Inspire Courage is definitely nice at level 9, but that's also half or more of your feats by 9th level and likely a significant investment into an NPC organization. Inspire Competence is a joke unless you're a dwarf and take another feat to make it actually work, so another +2 there isn't much, especially since we're talking skill checks. Inspire Heroics doesn't open up until level 15, at which point the difference between +4 and +6 Dodge bonus to AC is not that significant given the attack bonuses of the things that will be trying to murder the PCs.

It shouldn't work on Inspire Greatness, and that's the only performance where I can see a real argument for it being broken to get 4 bonus HD instead of 2 HD. If the GM somehow ruled it as doing so.

If you're comparing it to D&D 3.5, though, it's definitely weaker than that, because in D&D 3.5 you have the ability to double Inspire Courage bonuses and are not limited by rounds per day. Granted, I'm of the opinion that, in general, PF erred on the side of making feats too weak and making too many feat-chains in exchange for increasing the raw number of feats.

As for whether it's generally allowed, I can't help you with that one.

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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Every casting of Construction yields a 3' high, 10' long and 3' thick wall of packed earth and loose stone, kind of like the filler between courses of masonry in some castle walls. These summoned walls have to stand on solid footing, but once summoned they're permanent.

Packed earth or loose stone, although I suppose the "or" could be read as inclusive so you could also do a packed earth and loose stone combo wall. That would help get some of the benefits of stone while also having the earth fill in the gaps to make it less permeable to the wind.

The loose stone only version could be used as a source of stone for making celt axes or other stone tools or weapons, too. Even more so if Stone Shape were on the table to get the basic form down for further finishing. Of course, if Stone Shape is on the table, then you can eventually make yourself a stone hut, or even larger structure, over time once your immediate needs are satisfied.

For further reference, Expeditious Excavation can clear out a 5' cube, which is 125 cubic feet of soil. Using a Common Shovel, a single person can dig out 2 cubic feet per minute, meaning you can excavate the same amount as one use of the spell in about 62.5 minutes. Although you would not be able to do perfectly squared sides as easily as using the spell, and you'd likely need to take some extra time to have a slope downward on one side. OTOH, you would be able to control where the removed soil went, too, which could aid in adding some elevation to the sides, or, such as if you strike clay, allow it to be set aside for further use.

So it depends on the exact details, number of people, resources already possessed, etc.

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MrCharisma wrote:

Very cool guys.


So we have the Vigilante class, sure, but how are we going to get those pictures of Spider-Man?

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MrCharisma wrote:

1) Yeah I'm sure they have cataloguing systems, but there's probably no universal way of doing it. Profession: Scholar is probably all about learning those systems. That's basically the job description.

2) No I don't beleave Golarion has a printing press, or any other kind of mass media for that matter (If someone can point me to an AP with a news paper or something I'll happily admit I'm wrong about this though).

I'm reasonably confident that Hellknights were engaged in raids on unauthorized printing presses in the background of the Council of Thieves AP.

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The traveling kettle would have a number of uses due to being a vessel for storing water and a cooking implement, though that's more because it's literally a kettle than the fact that it is a weaponized kettle. In a similar vein, Iron Spikes are tools that double as weak weapons.

If you have rope, or can make cordage via Survival, Craft, etc., then the humble quarterstaff can be used to make a number of structures. Survival shelters, bridges, an improvised tower to get a better view of the surrounding area.

Wooden stakes are useful in a variety of roles, and can be further split into kindling if necessary. Clubs could provide the basis for a torch, or larger ones (esp. a Large or Huge sized Creature's Club) could be used as fuel for a fire rather than kindling.

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IluzryMage wrote:

Question, so has anyone brought up the runesage archetype?

It counts as a universalist wizard but can also use thassolian magic. You must even be able to turn your bonded object into an amulet of magecraft, so that your 2 thasslian slots can be used for any spell of that days respective school!

Just ya know, a thought

They have not. Interestingly, it also gives an initially weaker but scaling version of the False Focus feat, though only for one school of magic at a time (and never Divination).

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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
So MT759'er, I'm having trouble hunting down the RAW on Profession: Scholar. Is there any way you can link me to where the breakout is on that skill/choice combo is? I have a player that ALWAYS plays know-it-all arcane caster types, but he might make a Wis based PC if he could use this skill in the build.

I would also like to echo how keenly interested I am in this and any other similar things.

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JasonFrost7 wrote:
There is the New Thassilon Specialist feat. It lets you pick your forbidden schools.

New Thassilonian Magic lets you pick one of them, but the other is still locked in. Still it would let a Greed Mage keep Enchantment as a banned school and then get rid of Evocation or Necromancy so that they have a more ideal set of banned schools instead of having to give up on the versatility of Illusion spells and especially the Shadow family of spells.

Sloth Mages could similarly have an "ideal" set of banned schools by keeping Illusion and then adding Enchantment or Necromancy to the banned pile alongside Evocation.

Pride Mages, on the other hand, would still have a hard choice to make because either way they're giving up one of either Conjuration or Transmutation, although the Shadow Conjuration line probably gives back more than Shadow Transmutation does.

The River Kingdoms do have the "lots of small fiefdoms" and "next to [France]" angles going for them.

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Chell Raighn wrote:
IluzryMage wrote:
Coidzor wrote:
If they get orisons and spells of 1st to 6th level, isn't that a 2/3 caster, not a half caster?
So that might be just a terminology thing on my part. I always thing 1-6 is half and 1-4 is quarter but frankly thats probably a me issue.
It’s far less confusing if you don’t think of casters in fractionals… 9th lv casters, 6th lv casters, & 4th lv casters.

Good point.

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Some things have pretty compelling reasons for why they're tied to X, Y, or Z.

Like feats that modify a creature's tail. Only makes sense that you'd need to have a tail in the first place to be able to modify it.

Other things... not so much, the devs clearly just pulled a name out of a hat to assign it to a region or culture. These things are much more easily re-flavored and re-fluffed

DRD1812 wrote:
VoodistMonk wrote:

I poorly ran Kingmaker a while ago, which has extensive downtime opportunities for the party. And while, if I was to run Kingmaker again, I would never dedicate a whole session to kingdom building ever again. That is, quite literally, doing taxes... and is best handled through emails between sessions.

It honestly makes me wonder if you could make it fly as "prompts for and improvised encounter."

Like, if you did a round of downtime, then created an actual scene / encounter out of the results, it might feel a bit more like the normal course of play than that ultra-crunch addon system.

It's certainly worth consideration.

On the other hand, something like "Fussy Neighbor" 3 times in a row would give even a fairly creative table pause.

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If they get orisons and spells of 1st to 6th level, isn't that a 2/3 caster, not a half caster?

Mythic Rules wrote:
DR/Epic: A type of damage reduction, DR/epic can be overcome only by a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 299). Weapons with special abilities also count as epic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction if the total bonus value of all of their abilities (including the enhancement bonus) is +6 or greater.

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Albatoonoe wrote:
As an Xcom veteran, I know that doing this is just asking for that character to die a grizzly death.

That's why you name them after friends, family, neighbors, coworkers, etc. Eventually you run out of those and have to use people's forum handles, though.

It really, really depends on the context and the extent to which it is done.

Chell Raighn wrote:
Incorrectly regarded as inferior… spellcasters are only considered superior because of spells that can incapacitate multiple enemies at once…

Walls, summons, buffs, debuffs that still have an effect even on a success, those are all part of the reason for the big casters being viewed the way that they are.

I recommend that you check out Treantmonk's GOD Wizard guide while you're still able to find it. (Although the 3.5 one and the 5e one will do in a pinch) If nothing else, it'll pretty clearly lay out the philosophy of the position you're arguing against.

TxSam88 wrote:
the fighter Archer can quite often obliterate the BBEG before the spell caster even gets a turn. So yes, Martials are in no way inferior to casters.

Except for all of the ways that they are and all of the areas that aren't "kill this thing dead as quickly and as efficiently as possible."

Admittedly, killing things in 10x10 rooms in order to loot their treasure chest and eat the tasty pie that they were guiding is a huge part of the game, but it's not the only part of the game, by and large.

TxSam88 wrote:
Not to mention that at some point Casters run out of spells and rests are not always an option.

There are three main possibilities here.

1. They're low level. Which makes it a red herring anyway, because without healing magic to keep refilling their batteries, the melee frontliners are going to run out of blood.

2. The players are not using their spellcasting resources properly. Any player playing badly can wind up leading to getting their character or another party member killed or botching an encounter badly enough that it uses up way too many resources.

3. The GM is deliberately engineering a specific outcome.

Since we're necroing, and all, isn't there a spell that lets you see the night sky without actually needing line of effect to it? Planetarium, maybe?

The biggest problem is securing their loyalty such that it remains after they are undead. Followed by successfully indoctrinating or otherwise incorporating into your forces any undead they spawn that aren't thralls by the nature of the spawning.

Unless you're Dave the Commonering it up, it seems like its best use is breaking WBL through Magic Capital and magic item crafting.

Melkiador wrote:

Hmm. I did forget about the one level later bit... In that case, I guess I'd change my mind. The familiar option isn't one to one. You could still try asking your GM about it, but it doesn't look as promising.

Maybe look at altering the cost or the benefit. A bloodline familiar gets an extra perk. For VMC, maybe just the familiar without the perk.

It would basically be swapping out Abberant Bloodline's 1st level power for Arcane Bloodline's 1st level power.

I don't know if they shed an entire skin like a snake, but they do periodically shed individual scales, which is one of the traditional sources of dragonscale armor and the like that can be made without having to kill the dragon (or capture it and use repeating traps of Slough and Lesser Restoration to industrialize the process).

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ErichAD wrote:
He could easily be remembering an older version of mithral armor. Wasn't elven chainmail wearable by wizards in ad&d?

I believe you are correct. They brought it back to an extent with the "Elven Chain" item in 5e, where it automatically grants proficiency in it when worn, allowing any non-Druid character to cast spells in it.

To be fair, most cities in the River Kingdoms are small by Golarion standards and Golarion standards are significantly smaller than our real world standards, by and large.

Still, a custom high level spell would be enough, especially if it had a duration dependent on concentration.

Once they eliminated anyone in the area who was a threat to them, even a 5th level Wizard could massacre a lot of level 1 Commoners with Raging Rubble all day long.

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