Sysryke's page

Count yourself lucky Bjorn. I played in one group where one of the couples was the GM and his girlfriend. I was playing a gentle giant barbarian inspired by Ferdinand the Bull. Her character was a rather forward/aggressive Tiefling ranger. Her character frequently made advances at mine, but it was cringy, so I just played him a little bit simple/innocent, and he never understood her advances. Placed her hard in the friend/sister zone.

This is definitely where the professional acting skill sets come into play on Critical Role. There are two couples playing at that table, and their various characters developed different romances from the IRL pairings with no awkwardness I could perceive. At least for myself, and I'd venture many other players, it's challenging to compartmentalize oneself from a character to that degree. Of course, if you consider BrAngelina from back in the day, not all actors do this well either.

Thanks for the feedback folks. My life de-railed for a bit after I made this thread, so I'm just now getting back to it. I appreciate the various perspectives.

I think one challenge I have is that I haven't been in any games with both ongoing story AND recurring NPCs. I've had one or the other, but rarely both. If a character of mine was going to develop a romance, it would almost certainly be a slow burn, which needs both elements. I've played in sandbox games with rotating GMs for several years now, so the NPC cast changes often. This leaves only room for PC romantic pairings, and my group is comprised of mostly real life couples, and now someone's kid. The set-up just isn't conducive (or now appropriate) for any character romances.

I suppose the actual couples could couple their PCs, but that often feels cheesy, cliched, or cringy. Plus, my husband and I would have to play characters that didn't drive each other mad :p

I think Mammoth Shaman can also get to the Familiar/AC in one combo.

I'm assuming for the purpose of your experiment here, you want only AC, no discussion of Eidolons.

I play several non-D&D games, but if I’m playing a D&D-esque one it will be PF1.

......

I’m pretty sure the people you first play with have the biggest impact on whether you enjoy a game system.

Sing Sweet Wisdom! Truer words were never spoken.

I know I'm a decade late to the party, but I recently started watching Critical Role. I'm well aware that the whole group is all professional actors, and not all games will, can, or should be what theirs is. That said I do love the storytelling aspect of this game, and so far it looks like they all do it well. One component that the CR group includes is romance, and I'm in a musing/wondering kind of mood.

So, aside from the boring/useless/non-constructive answer of "Just don't!", I'd like to know how different folks have successfully incorporated romance for their characters. I think with long running campaigns, when this is well done, it makes for richer more believable characters and more layered stories.

That said, I've never really managed this with any characters I've played. The few times I've had a character in a relationship it's been in back story, transition scenes, or prologues, never during actual gameplay. It's not something I usually think to think about or act on for my characters, but if I stop to think about it, I don't really think that any (maybe 1 or 2) of my characters are asexual/aromantic.

So, how do you go about developing intimate character relationships? And, to be clear, I don't mean exclusively or even primarily sex. The act can be implied, but I'm not looking to be graphic. I'm all for the classic Hollywood soulful gaze, embrace, flare the fireplace, flutter the curtains, and fade to black. I'm much more interested in how to build, act, and convey the thoughts, deeds, and feelings that create those relationships.

That all makes a lot of sense. I literally never saw, read, or heard any advertisements for 4e. My initial exposure was thumbing through the books in Barnes and Noble, and then my first store game a year or so later. I came in fresh with no preconceived notions one way or the other.

Dot

It sounds like there's been some poor communication on both sides, but I have to agree with Stranger's assessment.

What race is the PC? I'm not very familiar with the archetypes in question, but inquisitors do pick up several bonus teamwork feats, as well as whatever might be gained from race. By the same token, were the various extra bonuses coming from her Judgement class features? It could be that these were honest mistakes if she missed the part about Judgement being a modular feature with limited uses per day. That does seem a far stretch, but if this player is inexperienced, it is possible.

Sysryke wrote:

4e is definitely not the best system, but I'll never agree with the hate some folks throw at it.

A lot of the hostility to D&D 4e has little to do with the system itself.

1 - In the minds of many, D&D 4e came out too early - well before D&D 3.5 had run its course. I offer the popularity of Pathfinder 1e as evidence of this.
2 - Some of the actions of WotC to try to force the new system on the community did not engender good will. Hasbro/WotC has a general problem with the way the interact with the RPG Community.

I definitely agree with the first point. I never have been involved enough in pop-culture or social media to have been aware of the second part, but it makes sense.

Swinging back by the threads, and once again finding myself at the kids table :p Only 37 here.

My first exposure to D&D was pouring through the original 1st ed. Monster Manual in my uncle's room at my grandparents house when I was 3 or 4. I probably read that book hundreds of times, and creatures have always been my favorite part of any system.

My mom got me a 2nd edition starter set when I was 10 or so, but this was right before 3rd edition came out, and I never had anyone to play with. I just collected and poured through 3e books in junior high and highschool, but still couldn't find a group.

For better or worse the first game I actually got to play in was a 4e game in my Friendly Local Game Shop. I was blessed to find a good GM and welcoming tablemates. 4e wasn't as good as what I'd read of 3rd edition, but that DM taught me that "the roleplaying is what you bring to the game" and I have many happy memories. 4e mechanics were definitely beginner friendly, and while I'd grown up reading books set in Faerun, I didn't hate the new lore, it was just new. 4e is definitely not the best system, but I'll never agree with the hate some folks throw at it.

Eventually though, I got invited to join home games set in 3.5. The history and splat of the older system offered greater customization which I've always enjoyed. Around that time, some of my fellow players were getting into Pathfinder, and the conversion was a natural step.

Eventually I settled in with a core crew, some from my 4e days, others who I met through conventions and Pathfinder friends. Everyone just settled in with Pathfinder, and 15 some odd years later, no one wants to make the effort to adapt to a new system when Pathfinder has more content than we'll live to play through.

I did play with a Marvel crew that I loved for years, and that's the one system that I try to occasionally entice my friends with, but no bites for now. I would love to play in any edition of World of Darkness. My brief exposures to that system show me it's much better for horror and shape-shifters characters (I'm forever a critter guy). However, I've never played with a Storyteller who was competent, experienced, or well versed enough with those systems. As it's been pointed out, those games are dying off, so it's hard to find people.

I've played test games and convention one-offs of maybe a dozen other systems. I didn't have a great intro to 5e, and what I've heard in the years since hasn't given me much optimism. Aside from that, they're all fun for what they are, but with the exception of the MURPG (diceless Marvel, 3rd iteration??), no other system has ever allowed for as much customization and specificity of character creation as Pathfinder for me.

Thanks for the clarification Deathless One. :)

Sysryke wrote:

Male Kasatha Fighter: the four-armed desert dwellers, using dual wield broken back seaxs and two star knives, current feats and weapon/armor tricks/training/exploits unknown.

Your post isn't clear on exactly what this character does.

There is this feat-

"Multiweapon Fighting (Combat)
This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.

Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.

Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting.

Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.'

They can quadruple wield their broken back seaxes with only a -2 to hit and take Quick Draw and throw 4 star knives or chakrams a round. That only costs 3 feats, so it is very efficient as well as good.

If you add the Blade Boot feat you can have 6 attacks/ round w/o inconvenience.

I'm pretty sure he has the Multi-weapon feat, the rest I don't know about. We've only played two sessions so far, and had one brief combat. I mostly posted the other characters in response to Grok; looking for suggestions on what Teamwork feats or tactics to keep in my back pocket that fit well with the group.

Can anyone clarify for me what the correct DC for my Discern Lies Spell-like ability is?

I've got three different options, and I'm not sure how I came by them.

I think 15 (10 + Wis mod+ 2nd level spells)

17 (10 + Wis + Discern Lies is a 4th Level Spell)

18, not sure where I got this number from (10 + Cha because SLA? + 4th level spell)???

Can someone help me sort this out?

Nothing in the language of the feat suggests it is, or even uses the word "ally", but it still shows up on the list. Is this a typo from the original source material? I don't know how to search for FAQs on these threads, and my regular search fu continues to be rather poor.

D'oh. Sorry. I overlooked that you'd already chosen a main weapon.

If you're open to spreading out, than the combos suggested are a good call.

Touche. You are correct. The key thing is the 8 hour spell free window. I made the foolish assumption that that needed to be a rest, though it most often would be.

Neat. Trox are fun. You're going to have a tremendous boost to your strength, but all of your mental stats will be taking hits. Maybe not too important to you as a fighter, but your Will save is going to be abysmal, and you'll be worthless at all social skills, including intimidation.

Consider Iron Will, and Lightning Reflexes to cover some of your weaknesses.

The extra chest arms of Trox can't be used to wield weapons, but they grant Improved Grapple for free, you might lean into that and take the whole grapple chain, plus hunt for feats that add exploits to your grappling. If you can pick up any claw attacks, you could also put those on the smaller chest limbs.

You're also going to be large size, so I'd hunt for ways to allow yourself to act as medium size when in tight spaces. On the plus side, your going to have a 10' reach, so maximizing AoOs is a great way to go. Combat reflexes and whatever flows from there would be sweet. I don't know if 2-Handed fighter is just your build, or an archetype, but if you haven't settled on a specific weapon, then you might want to look for some good polearms, or whips/scorpion whip/chain whip if you're feeling exotic.

You're welcome. And there's one more thing I missed: divine spellcasters do not have any requirement to sleep in order to recover their spells. So if you cast spells rampantly right before the appointed hour of meditation as a divine spellcaster, you still recover all your spells.

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. I've been reading the CRB magic rules exhaustively recently. I can't recall which section, but all casters have a rule that says any spells cast within the 8 hour window before they prep or otherwise regain their spell slots for the day count against their slots for the next adventuring day. The divines may not have to sleep, but they still need to have rested.

Nothing wrong with a little happy necroing now and then :p

In the intervening years, D&D put out a much better movie. Honor Among Thieves was an absolute blast! I'm actually almost grateful my husband has memory issues with movies, because I get to reintroduce him to it on a semi-frequent basis.

Supposedly, there's a live action series coming to Netflix set in the Forgotten Realms. I'm cautiously hopeful.

Dot

Excellent breakdown Tom! Thanks for jumping in :)

Looks good!

Quick note: your Fire bolt domain power is at CL8, probably a Hero Labs (I assume from the format) issue, but the damage is correct regardless.

Teamwork feats:

Allied spellcaster is a good swap if you need to get past SR, assuming you have another spellcaster to stand next to. Pairs well with piercing judgement.
Once you have +6 BAB, Blades above and below will work well with your enlarge/reduce racial sla.

What other classes and races are in the party? That can influence some of your choices, like the allied spellcaster above.

Thanks Grok :)

I didn't actually use HeroLab, as that takes both savvy and funds I don't have. I only have a tablet to work with at the moment, so I copied and pasted one of Deathless One's (thank you, sir!) builds. Then I went through and edited and formated each line here on the threads to match my build. Thanks for the catch on the Fire Bolt, I knew I'd miss something. Too late to edit now though.

Group composition. Aside from me, we have a female Half-Elf Ranger: archery primary I think, favored enemies goblins and Hill giants, favored terrain as yet unknown (forests?), group/ally bond I think.

A female Piper (3pp Satyr) Bard: Jester/Clown/Tumbler style performance, gather info, society knowledges, and face skills, assortment of basic weapons, morningstar primary.

Male Dwarf Paladin of Torag/Moradin/Bahamut (not sure which): dual weilds throwing hammers (or chucks war hammers?), normally plays fighters but wanted to work as a healer.

Male Kasatha Fighter: the four-armed desert dwellers, using dual wield broken back seaxs and two star knives, current feats and weapon/armor tricks/training/exploits unknown.

The whole party is rather combat oriented and capable of switch hitting between ranged and melee. From most to least ranged probably Ranger/Bard/Inquisitor(me)/Paladin/Fighter, but I'd say we'll likely lean more melee in actual play. I'm the closest thing we have to a blaster with my fire focus, but that's still mostly melee.

Out of combat (or in) I bring my ridiculous Intimidate to the table. I'm also probably the best or tied for all of the monster knowledges. Between my perception and the Sift orison, I'm our default trap searcher, but zero Disable Device for now (not something I wish to develop, but story will tell). All of us were required to have "job" skills as well, either craft, profession, perform, or something roleplayable for money.

I use the ashes of my special slain enemies as pigments or glazes for my glass and pottery crafts.

Pyrian Raesttag
Male Ifrit Inquisitor (Immolator) of Feronia (formerly Moloch) 6
LN Medium outsider (native)
Init 11; Senses Darkvision 60 ft.; See through Smoke and Fire; Perception +10
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Defense
--------------------
AC 19, Touch 14, Flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +4 Dex, +1 shield)
HP 60 (6d8+12)
Fort 7, Ref 6, Will 8; +4 vs. Bleed effects from HP loss, +2 vs. Fire and Light effects, +2 to Stabilize checks
Resist Fire 10, Negative Energy 1; Immune Dazzled; DR 2/Bludgeoning
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Lead-lined Blood Iron Bastard Sword +9 [+8 two-handed] (1d10+5[+8] S/19+) (+1 -> 1d6 Fire)
or Masterwork Tine-Blades Gore +9 (1d6+6 P&S/19+) (+1 Fire)
Full Attack LLBI Bastard Sword +5[+4] (1d10 +5[+8] +1d6 Fire) plus MTB Gore +4 (1d6+2 +1 Fire)
Ranged Masterwork Composite (+4) Longbow +9 (1d8+4 P/×3)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; Concentration +9)
. . 1/day—Efreeti magic[ARG][ARG]
Domain Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; Concentration +9)
. . 6/day—Fire Bolt (1d6+4 fire)
Inquisitor Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; Concentration +9)
. . At will—Detect alignment
. . 6rds/day--Discern Lies
Inquisitor (Immolator) Spells Known (CL 6th; Concentration +9)
. . 2nd (4/day)—Blistering Invective*[UC] (DC 15), Flames of the Faithful*, Pyrotechnics*, Shared Training*
. . 1st (5/day)—Barbed Chains, Burning Hands* (DC 14), Expeditious Retreat*, Touch of Combustion*
. . 0 (at will)-- Brand* (DC 13), Detect Magic*, Disrupt Undead, Fire Bolt* [3pp, calling this "Ember Shot" to distinguish from Domain ability], Light, Shield Open Flame [3pp], Sift*, Spark*
--------------------
Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 19, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 18
Base Atk +4; CMB +8; CMD 22
Feats Scorching Weapons*, Deadly Horns* [normally Tiefling, GM approved], Precise Strike[APG], Fire Sight*, Outflank
Traits Fiery Glare*, Natural Magic*, Two World Magic*, Oppressive Expectations [drawback]
Skills Acrobatics +2, Bluff +13, Climb +4, Craft (weapons) +10, Craft (glass/pottery) +9, Diplomacy +8, Disguise +4, Intimidate +20[+21], Knowledge (Arcana/Nature) +12, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (Nobility) +3, Knowledge (Planes) +14, Knowledge (Religion) +11, Linguistics +5, Perception +10, Profession (soldier) +7, Sense Motive +11, Spellcraft +6, Stealth +2, Survival +12, Swim +2
Languages Common, Ignan, Infernal, Abyssal, Celestial, Dwarven, Elven
Other Gear Masterwork Lead & Sunsilk Lined Blood Iron Chain Shirt, Masterwork Aberrant Alloy Buckler, Adventures Outfit & Sash, Silver Holy Symbol, Signet Ring, Masterwork Tools for my 3 crafts, Masterwork Backpack, Matching Set of Masterwork Quicklatch Barbed Manacles and Fetters w/ Superior Locks, Skeleton Key, 10 squares worth of Vicious Caltrops, Glass bottle of Mimic Ashes, a schmidt-ton of other miscellaneous adventuring gear, 104Pp, 409 Gp, 6sp, 8cp
--------------------
Special Abilities
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Blood Iron Sword and Armor Each grants a +2 bonus to Intimidate when wielded/worn, +1 on first draw. Sword gains +4 to confirm crits and deadly property. Armor boosts saves vs. Bleed effects and stabilize.
Burnt Offering (flaming, 6 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant a weapon flaming ability. Slain opponents burn to ash, leaving equipment untouched.
Cunning Initiative (Ex) Add Wisdom mod to your initiative.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Deadly Horns Gain a 1d6 Gore Natural Attack.
. . Masterwork Tines [mechanically Tusk Blades] Custom built of Aberrant Alloy, Adamantine, Bone, Bronze, Glass, Gold, Mithral, and Primal Iron. Depending on which tine/prong you wish to hit -4 -> -14 to attack, or variable miss chance from 0 -> 50%.
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Discern Lies (6 rounds/day) (Sp) (DC 15, 17, or 18?) As the spell, detect falsehoods from one targeted creature, Will negates.
Domain: Fire Several abilities. No extra spell slots or spells known for domain. GM allowing Fire Domain spells to add to Inquisitor spell list as Deific boon.
. . Energy Resistance, Fire 10
. . Fire Affinity +1CL for Fire Domain Abilities. Ifrit racial ability.
. . Fire Bolt 1d6+4 Fire (6/day) (Sp) As a standard action, ranged touch attack deals Fire dmg to foe in 30 ft.
. . Servant of the Flame +1CL for Fire Domain, stacks with Fire Affinity.
Efreeti Magic (1/day) (Sp) Cast enlarge person or reduce person 1/day.
Fiery Glare Can always take 10 on Intimidate, even in combat.
Fire Sight Can see through mundane and magical fire and smoke, ignoring concealment and cover. Immune to Dazzled condition.
Judgment (2/day) (Su) Variable bonuses to Atk, Dmg, AC, DR, Energy Resistance, Fast Healing, Saves, or Concentration & Spell penetration.
Judgment of Immolation -10 (Su) Reduce target's fire resistance by listed amount.
Lead-lined equipment Weapons and armor are 1.5× as heavy. Add +1 (+2 if two handed) damage to Bludgeoning or Slashing Weapons. Light armor grants Negative Energy Resistance 1.
Monster Lore (Ex) Add Wis mod in addition to Int for Knowledge checks to learn creature abilities and weaknesses.
Outflank Increase flank bonus by +2 if flanking ally has same feat. If you crit, ally gets an AoO.
Precise Strike +1d6 precision damage for melee attacks if you and an ally with this feat flank the same target.
Scorching Weapons As a swift action, imbue up to two held weapons with intense heat adding +1 Fire damage. Always have a +2 bonus to saves vs. Fire attacks and Fire or Light spells.
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones. 3/day you can "loose" your last learned Teamwork feat and replace it with any other you qualify for.
Stern Gaze (Ex) +1/2 Class lvl to Intimidate and Sense Motive Checks.
Sunsilk Lining inside armor grants DR2/Bludgeoning.
Track (Ex) Add +1/2 Class lvl bonus to Survival to follow or identify tracks.
Traits Natural Magic (Religion) adds two Druid Orisons as lvl 0 spells known. Two World Magic (Magic) adds one Wizard Cantrip to the 0 lvl spells if your class spell list.
Wildfire Heart +4 racial bonus on initiative

=========================================================

The spells, feats, traits, or other features marked with "*" are locked in parts of the concept/build or first session gameplay. I'm open to comments or suggestions on the rest. I'm debating a few of my spell choices, but I'd also appreciate recommendations for things to consider when I level up. I also still need to figure out a list of swappable Teamwork feats to use with Solo Tactics.

Remember, my group allows 3pp, currently no magic or alchemical items, and some house rules. Anything you're not clear on, feel free to ask me. Obvious point, we have a very generous stat rolling mechanic. One of our players (who is honest, and dice have been checked anyway) consistently rolls near max stats, and the group all prefer to roll stats, so this keeps us on par.

A huge THANK YOU to everyone who helped me in this endeavor!!!

Ooookay. So, I only have access to a tablet currently, and copy and paste isn't copying font adjustments. Formating this thing on the threads is going to be a real lady hellhound. . . . The labor of loathe begins.

thorin001 wrote:

Sounds like you need a better GM. Knocking the bad guys down reliably is hardly game breaking.

He's just very old and set in his ways.

His name isn't Clyde, is it? :P

I'm enjoying reading about this, but as the variables increase nearly exponentially, I find myself wanting to curl up into a Star Trek fantasy.

Am I the only one who dreams about having access to the Holodeck to play fully immersive RPGs? You could literally download any game, with all of the available splat, verbally set parameters, and have the ships computer churn out whatever charts you wish. Any character built for you, or all of the options easily arrayed with full analysis metrics pinned to every choice. . . . This, this is how A.I. will someday capture me, moments before the franchise shifts and SkyNet vaporizes me :p

This character is finally (mostly) finished. I'm technically all good to go, but we've only played one session so far with minimal mechanical engagement, so I still have a small window to tweak spells known and my teamwork feats. Could someone point me to a good format template for posting a build? I've never posted a full build to the threads before, so I'm not sure how to go about it.

Both Feronia (wiki link) and Sarenrae are both good options. Feronia for having been a wife of Dispater, so already has an association with Hell, and Sarenrae for being a goddess devoted to redemption.

For your (counter)points on torture/sadism, my rough reasoning was thus: Hell is generally known for fire (and oddly, cold), torture/torment, deals/contracts, hierarchy, and corruption. I considered torture and corruption as the evil portions, while deals/contracts and hierarchy as the lawful. I thought that through your "good" training you could come to specifically dislike torture and torment, perhaps recognizing that the casual torment you endured wasn't as "necessary" as your father claimed. While you may not go out of your way to alleviate suffering as a Good individual might, being averse to causing pain, unnecessarily, could still be in line with a Neutral position. It seemed like the better candidate to have as a growing anti-Hell attitude.

Corruption is usually a more nuanced and gradual thing - and usually held as something in strict contrast to a good rather than a neutral position.

Sadism/torture is a big part of many of the Evil creatures/deities, lawful, neutral, and chaotic.

Your view is perfectly valid, of course. It's your character. I am definitely approaching it more with Golarian bias, which may not square with your home game or personal takes.

I like all of this as a way to progress IF I end up becoming good. It's definitely something I want to roleplay struggling with and trying to understand. I think where the character is at right now though, he's really only been divorced from the ideals of corruption, blatant deceit, and tyranny. I think of him as having been in Hell for all of his formative years, and only on the mortal plane for the last few years.

The monks have only just pushed him out of his Evil tendencies. His being allowed out to adventure is basically them letting him off the leash to learn the values of freedom, loyalty, and comradery. He's not Evil, but he's also really not good. Yet? Only time will tell. So, no to sadism, but Lawful forms of corporal punishment, "enhanced interrogation", or retribution, yes for now.

Thanks for the Feronia link. I had no idea how similar my concept is to the lore about Ragathiel. That actually makes for a good reason why Feronia may have been willing to accept me, as my story has so many parallels to her most famous son.

If this is the character I think Sysryke is playing, they've got a sufficient handle on the fire options available to an inquisitor. If it is that character, I am actually pleased they went Ifirit after all.

Yep. Thanks again Deathless One. When I have a bit more time to tackle the formating, I'll be posting the build on that thread. It may not be the prettiest, but I feel everyone deserves a chance to see the baby they helped bring up :p

Inquisitors have access to more fire spells than you realize once you get past 1st level spells. Second level gives them Blistering Invective, Flames of the Faithful. 3 Rd gives you flame Blade, Shield of Wings, Trial by Fire. 4th level gives you Cleansing Fire, Healing Flames, 5th Level has flame Strike, If you expand it out to include light spells they get even more. Inquisitors don’t really need a lot of direct combat spells. Usually they focus on combat buff spells and their abilities. Being a spontaneous caster you are not going to want a lot of direct damage spells.

All Ifrit gives you is burning hands once per day. Devil Spawn replaces darkness with Pyrotechnics so you still gain a fire based spell like ability. Ifrit takes a penalty to WIS which is the last thing you want with a inquisitor. Gaining a 1st level spell like ability is a poor trade for lowering the DC of all your other spells by 1 and taking a hit on most class abilities.

I appreciate the intended help, but I've looked into this for months. I traded away burning hands anyway. What Ifrit gets that Tiefling does not is access to many fire themed racial feats and traits. I'm also taking the Immolator archetype, which is Ifrit only.

I know Inquisitors get some good fire spells, and my GM is allowing me a few more through my deity. I'm aware direct offense spells are sub-optimal, but they're part of my concept. My main combat schtick is any way to have burning weapons, hence the race, archetype, and spell choices. My GM was willing to allow me to take one Tiefling feat as an Ifrit to gain a gore attack, but he didn't feel like allowing Ifrit fire feats on a Tiefling.

Thanks Mr. Bonkers. All good info for down the road.

Currently, we have zero access to magic items or any alchemical items as part of the GMs custom campaign. These things will be available later to either hunt, create, be awarded, or maybe even purchase, but not to start. Hence my focus on materials. My character is coming partially from a smithing/crafting background, so it made sense to start from here.

The great defaults are always cold iron, mithral/silver, and adamantine. Then too, the obvious (or not so obvious) varied types of magic/energy vulnerabilities. I'm just looking for other groupings.

For instance, pretty much all lycanthropes are vulnerable to silver, but are there more creatures than just the Fext vulnerable to glass? I'm looking for the uncommon/rare, but not rare/unique material vulnerabilities. As though, hypothetically, all chimeric creatures were vulnerable to gold.

Thanks for that tip. At least for now, I have the common DRs covered by my custom tine caps. My character has antlers and a gore attack, and I have various metals on the 8 separate tines. I worked with my GM to create a custom chart for this attack, so I can't just cheese that I always have the correct material on one weapon/attack.

I have one tine each of: adamantine, aberrant alloy, bone, bronze, gold, glass, mithral, and cold iron. The placement of each of these is locked in, and is impossible to change without hours of advance notice (so never in combat). Depending on the placement of the relevant tine, I have anywhere from a 10% to 50% miss chance, of that tine actually making contact on a successful gore attack. I can reduce the percentages by 10% if I take a -4 to the attack (like trying to do non-lethal damage with a blade). If I want to guarantee I hit with the correct tine, then I have to take called shot penalties anywhere from -4 to -14. If I get a nat. 20, I can skip the chart. Since none of my items are magic yet, half the tines are fragile and subject to breaking on a nat. 1. All subject to GM adjustment if this ends up being too strong, but I spent numerous resources to make this custom weapon.

After all of that, while all of the recommendations I received are going on a wishlist, I ended up choosing a material for my bastard sword and armor that serve a utility power over straight offense or AC boosting. I'm currently wielding a Masterwork Blood Iron Bastard Sword, and matching Masterwork Blood Iron Chain Shirt. The combo gives me a glorious intimidation boost, plus a few other situational perks. I lead-lined both to get a bit of extra damage and defense, but until we get access to magic items, I'm rolling with an AC of 19 instead of 21. Hopefully I will live to not regret that choice.

Does seem like your GM needs to settle a bit, and get more comfortable with the rules, but I don't think it's unfair to up challenges to meet the PCs where they're at. I'd say if he's that worried about wiping out the other players, then group tactics and individual builds need to be examined.

The fighters SHOULD be the hardest characters to take down in combat, but that means that you two should be actively defending the other characters, using positioning and terrain to limit access to your casters as much as possible.

That said, clerics, druids, witches, and alchemists can all be absurdly badass. Those characters should be able to contribute to their own defenses in many ways, and their players should be doing their parts to contribute to good tactical play.

If there's a huge disparity in system mastery between you and the other players, see if your GM would be open to you helping your stablemates tweak their characters a bit (assuming your other players are open to that sort of help).

Just out of curiosity why did you not go with tiefling for your race? Devil Spawn tiefling make excellent inquisitors. CHA does not do much for an inquisitor especially with the right inquisition. Their favored class bonus is similar but the tieflings is actually much better.

Honor divorced from morality would focus more on reputation and reliability. Keeping your word is important because it allows mutual beneficent deals. When both parties know that the deal will be honored cooperation become possible. In cases like this the letter of the law is usually more important than the spirit.

Even protecting other can be seen as beneficial to the person doing the protecting because it often leads to rewards latter. Which is better taking the peasant’s last gold and having them starve or collecting a lesser amount each year for decades? The trick is to leave them enough to thrive but still getting the most out of them. The lawful good character will take enough taxes to support the state but still leave the peasant enough to thrive. The lawful evil will take as much as they can but leave the peasant enough to survive. The lawful neutral will take somewhere in the middle. They want as much as they can get but also want the peasant to produce more so they get more over the long run.

What the real difference between lawful good and lawful neutral are often the reasons behind the actions instead of the actions themselves. The good character actually cares about others and wants everyone to prosper and be happy. The neutral character is more concerned with the results.

I agonized over this for months. It came down to a necessary mechanical decision. Standard Inquisitors get cursedly little Fire powers, and fire was a big part of my concept. Ifrit offers way more options for fire powers racially that the Tiefling just can't get, which was actually quite surprising to me. My GM felt that allowing me to take a few Tiefling traits as an Ifrit made more sense than the other way around. A bit arbitrary, but there you have it. The backstory though, has always been Hell based, so I couldn't bring myself to switch to an Efreet daddy from the City of Brass in the Plane of Fire. It might have worked, but I was already set.

I'm taking full advantage of my Cha bonus though. Blistering Invective is going to be one of my signature spells, and I've managed to get up to a +20(21) Intimidate bonus.

That last point of your's was very helpful to me. I've been struggling a bit with how to act differently, but it's interesting and helpful to consider that it's the motivations and results that affect morality more.

I grok do u wrote:

Slightly more specific ideas/suggestions to build in:

1) Always tell the truth, but never the whole truth
2) You can be flexible with "true, from a certain point of view" logic
3) View those who tell outright lies as "dishonorable demons"
4a) Part of your out-of-hell experience is that you dislike sadists, but find comfort in strict hierarchy - and try to create rules and clearly defined roles for yourself and others around you
4b) You call out anyone who seems sadistic - even if it is just friendly ribbing; you also insist people "stay in their lanes" for roles - even if it is they start the campfire, when that is YOUR JOB
5) Fire is our friend. It is a purifier, it is the great "reset button" in nature for when the forest becomes too chaotic with underbrush, it brings life to otherwise inhospitable places, it is necessary for making the best tools and weapons, and allows even mere humans to see through the darkest of nights.
6) Anyone who dislikes fire is wrong in the head, and you will try to bring them around to appreciate fire
7) You always seek out the ruler of the area you are at, make an effort to learn their laws (written and unwritten), and then make your judgement as to whether they are worthy of your obedience or should be overruled by your higher authority - and corrected

I support every one of these suggestions.

Yep yep yep! I really appreciate all of the input so far. I do think I want to dig in just a bit on the sadism angle though. Being from Hell, and raised to see that environ as lawful and "normal", the infliction of pain and torture is the "just" sentence of the souls of the damned. There is purpose in that pain. Sadism though, is pain for pain's own sake, or one's personal satisfaction, and that's Chaotic Demon crap. Enjoying pain isn't okay, but taking pride in the skillful infliction of "necessary pain" is virtuous. All twisted thinking, but an important nuance for a character beholden only to Law.

Another element to think about is the fact that, as an inquisitor, you're a divine caster. In the default setting of Golarion, that means you serve a patron god, who will have certain expectations about your behavior. Depending on the campaign, that may just mean the basic rule of staying within one alignment step of your god. But there are also sourcebooks like Inner Sea Gods that go into more detail about the tenets of the faith and the role of its priests.

[I realize that this is the 1E forum, but the entries for gods in 2E do an excellent job of summing up the god's expectations in a few Edicts and Anathema. A look at those might help you find some ideas for that list of principles that you're looking for.]

Given your character's origins, would his patron be an archdevil, or the god of his mother's church? In either case, I could see literal "law" being a core concern for him. Laws bring order, but require study to understand properly. And those who understand the laws best also know how where the loopholes are, which they can legally exploit--which could promote more order overall, or make a mockery of it, depending on the circumstances.

We're in a homebrew game, but we're roughly using the various Pathfinder deities for ease of mechanics/play. I'm bound to the Divine concept of Fire, but we're using Feronia as my "official" patron deity. This is mostly a mechanical decision, as I can find little to no flavor/story info about her. However, she's N, covers the Fire domain, and offers the Bastard Sword as a favored weapon.

Story wise, I'm the son of Moloch. The early unplayed levels of my Inquisitor class would have had me evil, with either him or Asmodeus as my patron, and the character LE. At the stage where we are starting, I've been converted to LN, I still have connections to Moloch, and use profane bonuses mechanically, but I'm being brought around.

Depending on where the campaign goes, and how much my personal storyline developed, I could be brought into the fold of my mother's LG or NG fire deity (Saranae?). I was inspired by a briefly referenced deity from an old Mercedes Lackey novel, Anathaie of the Purifying Flame. This might be another face of Saranae, a Saint or lesser deity from Saranae's faith, or just a new deity. I could theoretically also get pulled back to evil, though that's definitely not the goal/hope/plan.

I suppose if we got into truly Epic play, getting into a Hell's redemption arc could be interesting, but that will probably never happen.

I get that it can be very broad. I'm looking for some more concrete examples pertinent to this character. I guess I should have also clarified honor divorced from good or evil. All of those real world examples are pretty much categorically evil, and subjectively bastardizing the concept of honor.

We tend to associate honor with goodness in the real world. I'm trying to see what it might look like without obvious moral ties in the game setting, but not to use the word honor as a cover or excuse for evil acts. One claiming to have honor isn't the same as actually having it.

Wow! I can't possibly be the first person to have had this thought or broach this topic. Yet, when I just did a Google search for which creatures have vulnerability to adamantine in PF1e, this thread was the very first search result. Has no one ever thought or cared to group monsters by vulnerabilities?

Anyway, shameless bump, hoping to get more fun ideas on esoteric creatures.

My group is starting a new campaign, and I've built a character that's a bit more out of my style than usual. I know everyone plays their own way, but I'm looking for some ideas or suggestions on how to roleplay this character.

The character is an Ifrit Inquisitor, however, from a story perspective, he should be thought of more as a Tiefling. I almost never play evil characters, and I DO NOT want this character to be evil (at least not to start). The character was raised as a commander in training, in Hell, the son of Moloch and a mortal cleric. Due to his mortal parentage, agents of his mother's church we're basically able to sue for custody (via Lawful Neutral extra-planar mediators) of the young adult Ifrit, and have spent the last several years working to educate/purge the evil out of him.

I normally tend to be a light-hearted, pun making player of traditionally good and/or heroic characters. I don't want to play this guy evil, or as a jerk, but I don't want him to be my normal good guy. So, I'm trying to lean into the Lawful Neutral alignment. I want to challenge myself to rely act as and inhabit this character. One thing I thought that might help, is if I can establish 3 to 10 principles built around Law and Fire, similar to Cavalier Orders, Divine Tenants, or Paladin Codes. I'd appreciate any suggestions.

I also have already decided that I want the character to be a "my word is my bond type" as part of his personal code, but coming from Devil stock, he'll still have a bit of that "letter of the law" mentality. I'm wondering if I should make him honorable, and if so, what honor divorced from good might look like?

I do know, his military upbringing does make him respect the chain of command, but he likely chafes when under the command of those he perceives as somehow lesser. I'm wondering what quirks or habits I can give him to convey this type of character? I'd also appreciate tips or suggestions on how to catch or curb myself when I might react more as me than as my character. I still want to have fun with my group, but I want to embrace the acting side of roleplay a bit more with this character, and that's not my normal style.

Any ideas are welcome. I'll also be glad to answer questions or supply extra info to help flesh this concept out. Thanks all!

I'm dying to know Soapbox, did your GM finally concede the point?

I do like the idea of adding different metrics beyond raw "power" to the conversation. That term is already ambiguous, so getting more concrete would be nice. As to the archetypes thing, I'm in no way familiar with all of the tier lists out there, but I've seen a few that will acknowledge tier adjustments up or down for notably powerful or sub-par archetypes. As to combos, no thank you, that's a list of a magnitude approaching infinity (or at least an enormous enough number as to make no difference).

I'm in no way prepared to tackle something that involved, but I very much like the idea. I think I'd be more interested in the level by level comparisons than the final aggregate scores. However, with all of the archetypes in play, this is a likely monumental undertaking.

Different tables clearly have different ideas of what power-gaming and roll-play is.

What OP describes is considered completely normal at the three different D&D/Pathfinder tables I play with, reflecting a character that is preparing for different types of enemies based on experience. And hey, if people want to shuck money at their golf-bag of weapons, go right ahead.

It's also a nice plus for the players who invested in different types of weapons or spells to get the pay-off for it when a specific type of enemy appears. Recently in Pathfinder, our Fighter got to shine in a boss battle because he really wanted an adamantine sword and for months it hadn't mattered at all, but since the boss had a Shield Guardian golem, it mattered a whole lot and probably turned the tide in an otherwise very tough fight.

Thank you!

@TxSam88, I'm sorry if I read too much into your posts. I was feeling a bit attacked, and so, went on defense. I do generally enjoy your contributions on these threads, even if we aren't on the same page here.

Sysryke wrote:

If my character is meant to be a trained monster hunter and slayer, who's studied exotic prey for most of his life, why wouldn't I apply that knowledge to carrying the right tools for the job?

these are the kinds of excuses power gamers use to justify their ROLL play choices.

As for the wizard prepping every element possible, yeah, that borders on it too.

I don't mind some debate and lively engagement, but this is treading dangerously close to "wrong/bad fun" talk.

I've been playing close to 20 years now, with all sorts of different players in store games, Con games, and home games. I've never been accused of being a power gamer, and I've played with the sorts who abuse system mastery to the detriment of the rest of the players. But, I also help my fellow players build characters, and trying to be really good at one or two facets of the game, even the "best" at something, has never hurt a player or a story at any of my tables.

Pathfinder is a system that encourages specialization. This is my characters speciality. I'm not ridiculously hard to hit, my saves are decent/average, I won't be our highest DPS, my attack bonus won't even be super competitive. And that's all just combat focus. I'm not inherently the best face, or scout, or magic user, healer, etc. I will try and decently contribute to several of those other tasks in order to be a well rounded member of my party, but I'm focusing character resources and roleplay into being the monster knowledge guy, and doing what I can to have a better than even chance of insuring that when I do hit, the damage actually goes through. If that's power gaming to you, we have very different understandings of the term. I won't tell you how to play in your groups, kindly give me the same courtesy.

Sysryke wrote:

I would not consider myself to be a power gamer, any more than a fighter or ranger carrying an assortment of weapons to be.

I consider that borderline power gaming as well.

It's one thing to have a melee weapon and a ranged weapon, its another thing to have one of every damage type and every material....

As a GM, I would rule that all the tines are a single attack, and if you had all the different materials, and if you had the right one for that particular attack, would ignore 1 or 2 points of that DR, but not all the DR.

it sounds like you are trying to make it balanced, which I applaud you for, but IMO it falls into ROLL play and not ROLE play.

Opinions can vary, I grant you. However, depending on how it's done, I don't think power gaming is inherently a dirty phrase. If a wizard has acquired the right feats, magic items, or actual spellbooks to have as much versatility as possible, why wouldn't/shouldn't a martial type do the same thing. Is the wizard who takes "elemental spell", or preps blast spells of every element power gaming? Considering popular opinion, couldn't you call even playing a full 9th level caster power gaming? This is a fantasy game, with supernatural elements. At some point, we're playing things that none of us could accomplish or be in real life, so aren't we all power gaming a bit?

As to the ROLL vs. ROLE, this is both, but ROLE is steering the ship. I always build concept first. I'm a firm believer that the mechanics of the game are there to reflect and support the storytelling/flavor. If my character is meant to be a trained monster hunter and slayer, who's studied exotic prey for most of his life, why wouldn't I apply that knowledge to carrying the right tools for the job?

I don't disagree with you about the actual mechanics of the attack. The numbers I was suggesting would reflect trying to more specifically aim the gore attack, similar to the optional "called shot" mechanics. If I just do a regular gore attack, then your option or the percentage roll would determine if the relevant material comes into play or not.

I would not consider myself to be a power gamer, any more than a fighter or ranger carrying an assortment of weapons to be. There's nothing wrong with being the "Always Be Prepared" boy scout.

You do understand my objective though. I am aware of where this could be open to abuse though, and plan on building in limitations for myself and with my GM to check this.

First, a hard limit on the number of tines (8). Since that's still pretty broad, we'll be making some kind of extra check or attack penalty to make using the correct tine a bit more challenging. I'm currently thinking the -4 to Atk. like when using a weapon to deal non-lethal damage. And/or some kind of a percentage roll to see if the right tine is included on a successful hit.

Second, I most likely won't be able to start with as many materials as I want to eventually aquire, though I will have some since we're starting at Lvl. 6. Whatever I can aquire is going to come with some hefty up charges for the exotic item and special materials. I'm not expecting a free ride here. I'll have to spend gold and time, plus many of my skill points are invested in crafting and knowledge skills to justify this build concept.

Third, even when I do have 8 unique tine materials, the attack is still sub-optimal. My gore attack is only 1d6. It is there mostly for flavor, and as a fallback for when/if I lose my sword. I have no feats to support the gore attack (except the feat I had to spend to get the attack). And very few (if any) of my spells or features will synergize with the gore. I just wanted to evoke the horned hunter imagery and have a little mechanical support to reflect his hunter/slayer expertise.

Tusk blades are the closest I see. From animal gear category.

I would lean towards this pricing for changing damage type.

But otherwise, claw blades are probably the way to go for enhancement basis.

Mr. Grok, you get me :)

Thanks to the other respondents as well, it's good to have options. I think this fits best though, I just hadn't remembered the animal gear category. Works for horns, adds slashing, Paizo legit, enchantable for later, and still counts as a natural attack as best I can see. I may have to pay a bit more for multiple tines, especially since I'm looking to use various special materials, but with a 50 gp base, I've got room to maneuver.

Sysryke wrote:

I'm visualizing 8 points (4 on either side depending on if you're from the Eastern or Western half of the U.S.),

What if we're in Europe?

Anyway I'd just run with catfolk claw blades. It seems like the easiest solution and I cannot see why antlers would be significantly stronger or weaker than claws in this regard.

I wasn't trying to exclude the rest of the gaming globe :p

I'm just not as familiar with hunting jargon in other parts of the world. In the U.S.A., when hunting make cervids (deer), the size of the stags rack is described differently in different regions. If you were to say "an 8 point buck" half the country counts all of the stag's tines and thinks if four points on each side. The other half of the country only counts the points on one antler and assumes symmetry, so they'd visualize a huge or older stag with 16 total tines. I live in the middle of the country, and we end up hearing it both ways. It gets a bit confusing.

Thanks for the post!

Ah. All still good info, but I failed too mention something relevant. My group plays almost exclusively home games, so PFS rules/limitations will never be relevant for me. As a home game, obviously we can do pretty much whatever we want house rule-wise, but we try to stay close to the standard game rules to facilitate balance, fair play, and mechanical support.

So, to be clear, if there's a creature that is vulnerable to Bronze or Glass weapons, it's not RAW that Elysian Bronze, or Glassteel will fit the bill? Hopefully a GM might allow it as RAI (or just rule of fun), but it's not RAW.

I'm wanting to craft/purchase some forged metal tips for my character with a natural gore attack. The particular character has antlers like a stag if it matters. I'm visualizing 8 points (4 on either side depending on if you're from the Eastern or Western half of the U.S.), if it matters, though this could as easily apply to bull style horns, or lesser or greater numbers of tines.

I'm unsure how this should be priced. At the most basic side, I'd like to get the +1 atk for masterwork, possibly gain S&P damage instead of just piercing. The closest comparable item I can think of are catfolk claw blades, but I don't really want to change the gore from a natural attack. Maybe Ratfilk tailblade is a better comp.

I'd just like the ability to enchant the tines down the road, and for now maybe have some silver or cold iron tips for overcoming DR. But, before figuring out special materials costs, I need help determining a base cost for such an item. Recommendations please.