zza ni's page

we're ain't at the homebrew or game balance section, this is the Rules section.
And the rules are very clear:
If it doesn't say it stop being a two handed weapon. then it doesn't, and it uses ALL the 2 handed rules beside the ones it specifically call out to change.
If it say it work with a shield held in the other hand all together it does.

Save the homebrewing and society nerfing for their own section of the board.

Fighter's have it hard enough to scale up to casters as is, the extra feats are HIS *spellcasting* balance.
Each feat break the rules up to it and allow you to do something you just can't do without it. this is not a bug in the balance, it's a feature!

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side note, you got the requirements wrong, the proficiency and shield focus are a must, then you ether need to have bab +3 or 1st level fighter. it is meant to be easier for fighters to gain.

that pfs ruling is clearly a nerf they added to the feat, if it was considered using one hand then the feat would have mentioned it to begin with, as it does in so many other places where that happen. the half off str and power attack alone make a big deal enough for it to be mentioned.

that aside OP, you should probably go for a Clawhand shield for a caster with shield brace. it makes things so much easier and help when grappled (which would suck in ether casting or two-handed weapon fighting) .

the first sticky thread on the rules forum has the link on it's first post for the faq

then the motherless tiefling get blur 1/day (also +2 str and wis, which are great for monks)

intangible?
some options you might want to look at:

look up the Wayang, specifically the alt ability of Dissolution’s Child:
Once per day, you may change your appearance to look as if you were little more than a 4-foot-tall area of shadow. Your physical form still exists and you are not incorporeal—only your appearance changes. This works like invisibility, except it only lasts 1 round per level (maximum 5 rounds). This is a supernatural ability. This racial trait replaces shadow magic.

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if allowed (and you don't mind playing one, some do) then a Duergar can be realy nice here. they got invisibility and enlarge person 1/day , a bunch of immunities and +2 vs spells and such. and the +2 to con and wis also help a monk. you can pick up the innate flexibility feat to gain 2 more uses a day (and take it more then once)

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getting 1 minute of invisibility from being a heavy drinker is also an option.

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option #1:
4th level (see *note* below) unchained monk who pick up the empty body ki power (it surprisingly has no minimum level cap) can turn ethereal for 1 minute for each 3 ki used (2 ki with a charged up ki mastery ring):

"Empty Body (Su) (Pathfinder Unchained pg. 16): A monk with this ki power gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 minute as though using the spell etherealness, using his monk level as his caster level. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 3 points from the monk’s ki pool. This ability affects only the monk and cannot be used to make other creatures ethereal."

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option #2:
drinking the addictive Numerian Fluids drug and getting very lucky (rolling a 100 in a d100% and then 3 in 1d10):
100 = Roll on the table below. All exceptional effects are permanent.
3 = Phasing: The drinker gains the ability to become incorporeal for 1d4 rounds as a swift action, but takes 1 point of Con damage when he does so. Phasing can be extended as a free action by taking 1 additional point of Con damage. Coming out of phase inside a solid object is instantly fatal. Phasing cannot be used by creatures that are immune to Con damage.

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option #3:
to become permanently incorporeal (not like shadowcat) you can drink the
Ghost Syrup necrotoxin (base price of 6,000 gp) and if you succumb to it and lose all of your str you permanently become incorporeal. need wish\miracle and such to come back. so make sure you got something like ghost touch armor and probably ghost touch amulet of mighty fists to be able to do things.

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option #4:
adding the Etherealness magical ability to your magic armor (add a flat 49,000 gp to the armor cost) will let you become ethereal for 1 hour a day.

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*Note*
Your wish to be able to do it at level one is kinda hard as it's an issue with breaking the game's powers balance. a level 1 character is not meant to be able to go through walls unchecked anymore then to be flying at supersonic speed and shooting death lasers out of his eyes.

Consider the unchained monk option and think of levels 1-3 as training yourself to be able to do it. (flavor wise maybe you barely flicker on and off, without a real game mechanic effect, when meditating. Until you fully grasp the ki ability at level 4)

i work a lot with AI, never trust it, always fact check. An AI will blatantly lie, and keep up lying about it up to the point you confront it with facts, at which point it will apologize ,of sort, and might still claim the lie is true in the next answer he gives.

As for Freebooter:
Freebooter replaces: Favored Enemy; Hunter's Bond; Woodland Stride -and that's all.
The AI might even give you an answer about a freebooter from a different edition or game without even telling you he does. and that's if he doesn't just use the most common answer he finds that others wrote which might not even be from the rules.

once in every 20 rolls to roll 2 more rolls doesn't slow it that much. you can throw the confirmation and 100% rolls at once.

I do not personally advocate for critical fumbles. Martial characters have it rough enough without needing to worry about one of their 6 attacks a turn causing them to decapitate themselves.

To deal with martial having more attacks and thus those with X5 the attacks then a 1st level would fumble x5 time more, i added a 2nd roll. each bab a character have (which should represent his martial prowess and expertise) is a stacking 5% to not fumble on a nat 1 (which is followed by a to hit roll to confirm the miss, like with a crit) so say a level 6 fighter rolls a nat 1 and then a miss confirmation, he has 30% to just miss and not fumble. while a level 20 would only fumble if he rolls a nat 1, then a miss confirmation and then a 100 in a 100% roll.

"a monster that has miracle as an at will ability even if its just once a day?"
I assume you mean 'as sla even once a day' not 'at will'

if it can get class levels then it's possible.

a level 10 oracle(dragon mystery)/10 exalted (any deity who has the magic/divine sub domain. like nethys or Asmu) can have:

sla - to material cost:
1/day - miracle, 1/day resurrection, 1/day any up to 7th level wizard spell (such as limited wish) from dragon magic revolution (2/day if he's an elf with fev calss bonus).
-also the other divine sub domain bonus spells as sla of levels 1,2,3,4,5,6,8.
and the exalted 1/day ability that i like to call limited miracle. all without material comp.

my wish granting dragon (oracle) build has all that and more, being an elf who is adopted by genie-kin got him to add his fev class bonus for 2/day limited wish and the ability to cast 'at will' any 0 level spell if a humanoid (himself as well) wish for it.

This could make an interesting adventure. An npc party gets a hold of the bottle but only have the word of opening and don't know what will happen when they use it. Now your city is being invaded by evil outsiders that are getting progressively more powerful.

As a GM (just to mess with the players) I would add that the long imprisonment in the bottle somewhat effected the resident's mind, now they all dress the same, look the same and answer to the name 'Bob' ,yes even the big guy at the end.

if the dragon got acid breath attack (and gm is ok with old 3.5 pathfinder feats) then I would strongly suggest getting him the Noxious
bite feat.
7 attacks a round with each getting it's own save or suck when hit are very strong!

the spell is considered to be of a higher level, but it's not is of a higher level.
So it will be harder to: counter with darkness magic\resist\dispel\make into a magic item etc (a spell for a wand might end with a spell level over 4th so can't be put into a wand etc) -things that use the spell level for consideration.
But the spell's specifics would still follow it's original spell -the creatures one can summon for example.
The fact there is a spell of higher level named almost the same doesn't make it the same spell with a higher spell level as the only difference. for example if you scribe a summon mounter II spell that is somehow effected by this feat and class ability it will not turn into a summon monster IV, they use different..well everything... and you can't use one to add the other to your spell book because the 'considered' level is higher.
It will be like saying, I can heighten my magic missile spell to be a 3rd level spell so now it's a fireball. these are different spells altogether with somewhat similar effects (and while the higher level spells can be used to summon creatures from lower level spell list, having the higher in your spell book for example doesn't mean you automatically also have the lower ones. again -different spells)

just wondering, did you also take levels in the siegebreaker class? that thing get very nasty with overrun and bull rush with just 2 level dip.

in the magic section it state (in spell effects, about bringing people back from death):

"Revivification against One’s Will

A soul can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be. A soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the character attempting to revive it and may refuse to return on that basis."

so if he knows who killed him by name (and more so by alignment and patron) he might decide not to let the same person bring him back.

note that the aromatic extract doesn't normally work with haste as it only allow touch spells\extracts. and even if it did the extract slot used would be 2 higher and the caster level would be the minimum to cast the original extract (2 i think, for 2 rounds of haste only).

you bolded the wrong part. here let me point you to it:
"The target can attempt to resist this spell’s effects with a Fortitude save-if he succeeds, he is merely staggered for 1 round as he gasps for breath. If the target fails, he immediately begins to suffocate. On the target’s next turn, he falls unconscious and is reduced to 0 hit points. One round later, the target drops to -1 hit points and is dying. One round after that, the target dies. Each round, the target can delay that round’s effects from occurring by making a successful Fortitude save, but the spell continues for 3 rounds, and each time a target fails his Fortitude save, he moves one step further along the track to suffocation. This spell only affects living creatures that must breathe. It is impossible to defeat the effects of this spell by simply holding one’s breath-if the victim fails the initial Saving Throw, the air in his lungs is extracted.

the spell is resisted if he succeed a save, not negated. if the first save would have ended the spell effect it should have mentioned something like "staggered for 1 round as he gasps for breath and the spell ends".

the save is to resist the spells effects. if the save would negate the whole spell it should have said: 1- negate, not resist. 2- spell effect not effects and 3- mention that the spell end if the first save is made.

Instead the spell add a 'but', and inform us that no matter what was before it LAST 3 ROUNDS, if this part only talked about those who failed the first save it should have said "each round after the first the target can delay..".
if the 1st save stop it before that it should have mention so, the fact it say he is staggered for 1 round and later add but the spell last 3 and any fail move him down the path of suffocation mean that each save is for that specific rounds effect only and the next turn if the spell's rounds are not over he must save again (if not dead yet). Heck adding extend spell metamagic to this spell will let it last 6 rounds with a save for each.

arrows, backpack, blanket, bedroll, belt pouch, flint&steel, sawback + kunai, silk rope (cost 10 gp), soap, wet-stone, water-skin (more then one, unless you got some1 casting create water), caltrops(cold iron), torches, chalk, acid flasks (cost 10 gp each. for them swarms), mirror,trail rations,
other stuff from this list that you like.

a mule\donkey (they will go into dungeons and are more stable then horses, also cost a lo less). make sure to also get saddle and feed for it.

this is obviously a mistake and they should use 'turn'.
if they meant it as the full 6 sec 'round' then the last part in the 5 ft step the op copied would mean one can take 5 ft step after his 'turn' in another person's 'turn' while on the same 'round':

"You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round."

remember it's not even an action!
talking is a free action one can use even out of 'turn', if 5 ft step isn't even an action and can be used after your actions but in the same 'round' (and not 'turn') one would be able to use it anytime he want's in that 'round' even on some1 else's 'turn'.

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I think it's a carry over form 3.5 that never got patched:
from page 144 of the 3.5 player's handbook:
"You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other
kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack
of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round,
and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move
any distance.
You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round."

right, that was a house rule from my gm I have adopted and forgot it was one. Where you could 'save' your swift action for an immediate action before your next turn without taking the next turn's swift action. kinda like a ready action taking this turns action not the next.

the start of your turn reset all your actions. (move, standard and swift if you didn't use a swift action in your last turn and an immediate action between turns).

so in case #1 once your turn start you gain all action uses including your movement or the option to take a 5 ft step. using an immediate action before your turn doesn't prevent you from taking a move action or 5 ft step once your turn start. (it does prevent you from taking a swift action, depending if you used a swift action in your previous round or not). the immediate action in fact is accounted for your previous turn (if any) and has no movement restriction on your actions in your new turn.

to prevent you from taking a 5 ft step in your next turn, the ability need to specifically call it out to be prevented (for example see the step up feat).

in case #2 you take the immediate action in the enemy's turn, after yours was done. so again not part of your turn's movent and has nothing to do with that turn's 5ft step -and thus you may use it.(the same for that matter with the step up feat mention above)

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the only time this action would hamper your 5 ft step is if on your turn you provoke an attack of opportunity (not for moving. say from ranging in melee) and use the immediate action to move with Dodging Panache during your own turn actions. this movent will prevent you from then taking a 5 ft step until your next turn.

ok lets get some rules figured out.

general rule is for all cases not specifically calls out an exception. it effect all things under it's rule unless called out otherwise.

specific rule is an exception to the general rule and can only effect itself. one can not use a specific exception to set the rules to other unrelated to it. it is not a general rule.

back to us:

the general rule for outsiders call out general outsiders traits among them the proficiency in all martial and simple weapons. same general rule also say that should a specific creature entry say otherwise it trump what the general trait say.

the specific of each 'planetouched'(a non pathfinder name but meh) creature rules for player playing them include some of these traits, but removed the proficiency in all martial weapon proficiency etc. so they don't get it.

the fact a specific monster entry (Undine) include what seem to be a proficiency in trident, said monster is not player approved and is set as a monster for gm use. as such it should NOT have any effect on the rules for player played Undine. Hack at the same link bellow are the character Undine traits and again no proficiency in martial weapons is mentioned.

why does the gm monster has such proficiency?
GM fiat exception? favored god weapon? it doesn't matter! it is NOT there as a player character and as such has no effect on the rules for one. trying to apply the rules from it is the same as asking why doesn't all Undine character have a free cleric level.

I marked in bold more then one line in my answer. make sure you read the first one before asking 'why not'.

here it is AGAIN:
"unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry"

the auto proficiency or any other trait the outsider get in the GENERAL outsider type info depend on that the SPECIFIC creature of said type doesn't note a difference. and in plaintouched (as i pointed out with the Oread) it DOES. it call out SOME traits that outsiders get (like 60 darkvision) while removing others (like the proficiency) hence anyone who want to use the traits in the type to claim they SHOULD get the proficiency need to comply with the entire text they use -not just the pretty shinny bit they like.

and the entire text include the part that say that if the creature specifically change anything from the general type traits then that is what he actually get and not what the type say!

yes and No. for normal player option races it's no.
And reason is, if you read the outsider type info in the beastry it say:
"An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

- Darkvision 60 feet.
- Unlike most living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
- Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
- Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor. "

for a player's race the creature entry is the one that explain what you get as playing these races.take for example the info for Oread character (from the beastry's section about oread, scroll down to the end at'Oread Characters').
In there some of the above is written (like the 60 ft darkvision) and some are not. and the GENERAL rule of the outsider's traits say that you go by the specific info if it's say differently. the info for player character races doesn't include proficiency in all of them weapons so it doesn't gain them.

you have a NE boss that leave a lot of corpses around?

I would team him up with 1 (or more) Orphene(s). NE fey that has command undead at will and 1/day animate dead (caster level 6), as well as a Desecrating Aura which boost the undead made.

All them dead bodies littering the place around can be used for something other then props!

With command undead at will at caster level 6 this fey can command unintelligent undead with no save, and each use of his sla last 6 days!
Give him enough time (or teammates) and he can animate every corpse in the area and control it (dogs and horses as well as birds. don't limit the undead to just the humanoids).

(voice drifting down the hill)
"come play with us!"

Goz mask + saltspray ring. (some races, spells and abilities can replace the goz mask)
And stay 10 ft away at least (which you probably already doing since you are ranging)

you're welcome.

If you are going slayer and don't mind loosing the studied target ability for a cool factor with good defensive and utility abilities then I would suggest to go with an Ankou's Shadow. by level 5 you can have 2 mirror images constantly following you (until destroyed\discharged but can be recalled) and since it's level 5 they can also aid another (in combat, doesn't seem to be for skills, not at this level) and give flanking.

the Cool factor is that you can almost always appear to leave after images and make anyone nervous by not knowing which one of the triplets the real you is.

Ju-Mo. wrote:

Ever had a swarm with levels in rouge or monk?

You know the one you can only DMG with AoE spells which are mostly Ref Saves? And giving them Evasion, so that they are nearly invulnerable.
Like a Bat swarm (CR 2) with 2 levels in rouge.
+3 to Ref from the class +2 from Dex (+4 Dex for class adjustment) and evasion.
Thats a "CR 3" creature with a +12 Ref, evasion and swarm abilites.
And I bet a lot, that most level 2/3 partys would die against this monster.

Thanks. I just envisioned what power a vampire with the ability to turn into a bat swarm and two levels as a rogue would have.

..

that's already an option with this feat

that would not be a CR 33 monster but a cr 43 monster.
the rules for adding classes to monster say that if the class fit the monster 'style' it add it's full level to the cr, if not it add half. so an arcane spell casting, half bab, monster who gain fighter levels get half the class level to it's cr, while if it gained wizard class levels it would gain the full levels to it's cr.

a Solar a a full hd\bab with divine spells (and detect evil etc) is pretty much a 'monster' paladin so adding more paladin levels to it should add the full paladin levels to the cr.

distance perception penalties in pathfinder is wunki at best.
you get -1 penalty for perception for each 10 ft to the target (a rule which i have not seen anyone actually use). so that is -80 to perception at 800 ft range. pretty sure not a lot could tell the difference if they are both wearing similar clothes and fighting.

but then again following these rules by the letter mean one can't see the sun or moon at all (as penalties for stealth for size cap at colossal and the stacking penalties for the opposed perception to notice it do no cap)

Quote:

Benefit: While in a tavern or other drinking establishment,

It only works in taverns or drinking establishments.

Great at the Oktoberfest, useless in a street filled with angry people.

Read the 'special' part at bottom (which led to my 2nd question in my 1st post) - can be used on a large group if suppling the booze even outside a bar.

about stacking, does anything (other then time\resources etc) prevents taking 10 more minutes, in case of starting with unfriendly, to get them bar into friendly mood?

That's because usually such effects state the target 'die' without explaining\care for how much damage it took (if any), and breath of life return one to life by fixing the damage (so with no damage value to fix it's ineffective).
As such while not as 'per written' it's reasonable to allow it to fix death caused by damaged caused by a death effect.

I will nitpick that the spell is not capped at 200 as Diego wrote, if your effective caster level is above 20 the damage can go higher then 200.

So I have read this feat a long time ago, but stumbled into it again today while looking for something else and I noticed important things that seem to make it a lot more stronger then I initially thought.

reading thig feat effect (and the fact that one can use it even outside taverns if he supply booze worth at least 5 gp) it seem that the attitude shift is:

1.An auto success not requiring a skill check (which if using diplomacy would have been at dc 20+targets cha for unfriendly).
2. As a follow up since it is not the result of the diplomacy skill check it can stack with it. (the diplomacy check to change an attitude cannot shift the target more then 2 stages using it alone).

this mean that targeting an unfriendly group, even outside a tavern buy spending 5 gp, will move them into indifferent which can then be further improved up to helpful with a high enough followed diplomacy check.

so as long as the targets are not straight up hostile and you have 11 minutes to sing, one can move them into indifferent or even better with ease.

any thoughts?

also how many is 'a large crowd of people' in your mind? (or more importantly how few are still a large group so this can work on them?)

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Suddenly anyone can pull a Cuben Pete

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A bard getting countersong with ready action? anyone hearing can use his skill check as a save. and that (especially at higher levels with all the added bonuses one can pile on skill checks) can be set to be so high no dc can ever hope to reach.

I find countersong to be one of the least used abilities of the core bard, about time it got used for a something. I considered even to homebrow a feat to let a bard start it as an immediate action just to make it more usable.

heck at high enough level a bard can have up to 3 performances running at once, so he can have one of them to be countersong for the whole fight, no need to ready. (shadow bard and that spell\feat that let him run a 2nd performance, don't remember atm how it's called).

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Another rarely used basic function is to counterspell against the banshee wail.

Then there is the silence spell that can be used ether on the party as protective or on the caster (or on an item near him, like one a close melee wear) to shutdown all his verbale depended spells. (in some ap I had casters royaly screwed by this as ALL of their spells were verbal)

the only offensive spell wand I tend to go with is Ill omen or stuff with no save (or no save without interaction, like illusions).
Even then it's for the help to wield. the main character has better things to use his action on.

and the needed spell is an empowered acid arrow. which is a (bumped up)4th level spell. you can't cast it at 3rd level.

the words you posted:
" but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell."
to cast an empowered acid arrow spell the minimum caster level is 7th. (reminder that one can't use his class\trait abilities to lower the metamagic level when crafting)

just make sure your archer can deal with the other two common arrows shutdowns (beside deflecting\cut from air) - wind wall and a fighter who move and ready his tower shield once you start shooting.

...

It would be (spell level 4 x caster level 3 x 750 gp) or 9,000 gp for as empowered wand of acid arrow (CL 3)....

Small nitpick, if the spell level is increased, in this case to 4th, the caster level must be one able to cast the same spell level

so the minimum wand cost in that case would have been 750x4(spell level)x7(caster level) = 21,000 gp.

wand base costs is at (750 gp)x(caster level)x(spell level) with a max of 4th spell level (higher and you need a staff).
figure out the final spell level after the metamagic (with no trait\ability to reduce spell level etc) and decide on the caster level (must at least use minimum caster level for such a spell level) and fill the formula above.

for example, if it end as a 4th level spell and you want to use a 20 caster level (also make sure you have a caster with enough levels) then it would cost 750x20x4 = 60,000 gp base cost (that is to buy it, half for crafting costs).

remember to add any costly material (at 50 times for each charge)

for some reason the image was only temporarily set.
here is a link that should stay longer

where else would one get one's catgirl?

and no, catlfolk girl =\= catgirl

As a made up race you won't find any race feats for it so you have to adjust other race feats to fit it.

While a limited wish is as mentioned overpowered and have a high material cost, you might want to consider taking the extra specific feat race build option (it cost less then the free extra feat, since it's a fixed feat) and give the race a re-flavored gifts from the sea feat. (keep the rule text, but change the requirement to this race and remove the sea flavor). this is a watered down 1st level version for a wish, but can get the lure part done. call it 'gift from X' (nature or whatever was supposed to give the wish to your race in the first part)

5. holy water effect incorporeal undead (or other incorporeal creatures that are effected by holy water) at 100%.
The part about holy water is separated from the rest and as each part before took the time to explain if it effect at full or part. since all that is said is "Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead" without calling out any reduced effect, it mean it's effect is not reduced.

Same for channel energy.

As a side note, in my games this extend into ANY positive energy meant to deal damage to undead. So cure light wounds or disrupt undead gain the same benefit of 100% damage and no miss chance vs incorporeal undead. since it seem like a theme and I like to have a general rule instead of an expectation to each case. (I don't like saying 'positive energy in a vail of water or from a holy symbol works, but the one from a ray made with a spell doesn't, just because it wasn't mentioned')

As I said, by your own account it still has the rule that when you lose dex bonus you lose the cha bonus.
This is not spelled out to say only in cases when you lose ALL of the dex bonus you will lose ALL the cha bonus, so any effect that make you lose any dex bonus will make the same cha bonus lost. so armor max dex still is in effect.

The fact it is spelled out to do so in another ability that resemble it doesn't mean it has to be spelled out here too, the rule already cover it as is.

if 'conditions that make you loose dex to ac still apply' then this includes conditions that make you loose part of the dex. such as armor max dex. the fact you don't loose all of your dex is that it depend on the armor you use. if some armor would say '0 dex to armor' it would be easy to apply. the fact each armor have a different score to max out doesn't change the fact that if you have more dex you loose some dex bonus.

Testing that the knowledge and ability of a wizard is his alone goes against wizardly tradition, the very basic and honorable way wizards conducted themselves for years (ever since 1st edition).

As the creator of 'Mathmagician' put it back then:
"To copy from another wizard's spell book is plagiarism, to kill him for it is research!"

no, if you lower him one space down he can use any of his corners from which a straight line to any of the target's corners will not pass through any wall but hit the target corner BEFORE it reach the wall. (he attack from and to a space before ether wall start so his line doesn't cross it)

same for melee. all his corners only need to reach the corners of the target that are facing him (not the ones behind. remember melee goes by "to the target’s square" in melee as opposed to "to any corner of the target’s square" in ranged) still no wall in the way.

-

it's easier to think of if you look at each space border as thicker inwards, with attacks lined from his border's corner. since every one attack from inside his space's reach, not outside it. and if there is a wall in the same lane that wall exist to the full range of it's spaces, but the wall does not extend to the space beyond it.

like this image:
pink and yellow can't reach each other's top right corner without going through a wall border.
But green and yellow can to each other.
-with pink actually functioning the same as the wall here, as people -other then one self, can give cover to each other. but as pink's (and the wall's) space end before the next space down starts, he doesn't provide cover in the case of green to yellow.

Diego Rossi wrote:

zza ni wrote:

top-right, the lower left is targetable from the attacker lower left corner.

(or did you mean the attacker lower left goes through the wall to get to the target's top right?) we're dealing with ranged cover so the best corner the attacker can pick to attack from is his lower left.

anyway, in this case they BOTH have ranged AND melee cover from each other. both have a top right corner which has cover from all the other's coroners, neither can reach said corner of the other without going through the wall's border and corner.

The LOS e LOE runs along a blocked border. It there is a wall on the border, the border is blocked.

So fighting in a 5' wide corridor gives cover to everyone???

I have to read this as 'through' a border not being the same as 'along' a border.

no. not unless you are in the same space as the wall. I mentioned above that :

it seem like that for melee with reach they took PART of the words from the ranged cover. they let him decide which corner to check from like the ranged cover rules, but they kept his melee rule of only needing to reach the targets square, and not all of it's corners. ("to the target’s square" in melee as opposed to "to any corner of the target’s square" in ranged)

the ogere's top left corner can reach the two facing corners of the rouge to his left and as such she doesn't get cover from his melee+reach attack.

Cover in melee has the penalty of having to use all your corners, but the benefit of only aiming at the part of space closer to him without need to reach all the far away corners. melee with reach can pick his attacking corner AND only need to reach the facing corners. Cover in ranged can pick his attacking corner but must be able to target all the enemy's corners (or all the corners of 5 ft of him if larger)