Official Lost Omens clarification, errata, and FAQ thread


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In the Ancestry Guide pg. 124, the Kitsune's Star Orb familiar states "It always has the innate surge master ability."

I've wondered if that meant it has it as a bonus ability or if it takes up one of its familiar ability slots. By comparison, familiars like Marine Ally and Corgi Mount are less open-ended, being quite specific that their given ability counts against the ability limit.


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My interpretation is that the star orb is using an ability slot on it, I agree the wording could be clearer.

Sczarni

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HumbleGamer wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
As someone who just started playing a Tiger Monk/Champion for this reason, I don't look at it as "exploiting" Step mechanics. I look at it as building off of them.
It doesn't work paladin/tiger stance

It does work. You bolded the wrong section:

Quote:
You can use Retributive Strike with a ranged weapon. In addition, if the foe that triggered your reaction is within 5 feet of your reach but not in your reach, as part of your reaction you can Step to put the foe in your reach before making a melee Retributive Strike.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That whole sentence together does mean that the enemy has to be only 5 feet out if your reach in order for you to be able to Step to put them in reach. Tiger stance lets you have more options of where to step to, but doesn't let you Step up to a creature that is 10 feet too far away to Strike from your current position.

The one part that was bolded affects the other.


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HammerJack wrote:

That whole sentence together does mean that the enemy has to be only 5 feet out if your reach in order for you to be able to Step to put them in reach. Tiger stance lets you have more options of where to step to, but doesn't let you Step up to a creature that is 10 feet too far away to Strike from your current position.

The one part that was bolded affects the other.

Exactly

10 feet from the triggering enemy, no strike nor step for the tiger stance.

That said, I'd be not against if they were to modify the whole stuff, But since currently the only one feat which is off is the strix/sprite ( don't remember which one) I'd like that for now they fix this one.

Sczarni

*facepalm and groan*

Being 10 feet away from the enemy has zero to do with anything here. Please delete that unrelated thought from your minds.

HumbleGamer is the one who brought that up, when the context of the discussion was clearly about modifying Step mechanics.

Samir's fear was about errata'ing abilities to mention that the Step must be 5 feet, which would then prevent combining Tiger Stance and Retributive Strike.

As of right now, they work just fine.

And as this tangent has gone well off topic, if you disagree they work together currently, then please start a new thread.


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Er... what?

I replied a quote where an user confronted the elf lvl 9 feat with the strix lvl 9 feat, exposing my thoughts towards the 2e system when it comes to steps and abilities which makes you step.

tldr, my point was that you can achieve the 10 feet step through ancestry feats or other mechanics ( elastic mutagen or tiger stance, for example ), but you can't stack them nor use wider steps within other mechanics ( like the retributive strike, in order to make a 5 feet reach weapon/unarmed strike work like a reach weapon,as being pointed out ).

As for the last part, it is not clear what you mean when you say

Quote:

Samir's fear was about errata'ing abilities to mention that the Step must be 5 feet, which would then prevent combining Tiger Stance and Retributive Strike.

As of right now, they work just fine.

1) If you mean that you can step if you are 5 feet from the triggering enemy, yes you can. And can also make a wider step, though not necessarily required, provided by the tiger stance.

2)If you mean that you can trigger the ranged retrival feat while 10 feet from an enemy with a 5 feet reach weapon/unarmed attack, no you can't.

There's no disagreement when it comes to RAW.
Text is prefectly clear, and if you want to rule Tiger Stance + Retributive strike like in point 2, it's your own call and homebrew.


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Dubious Scholar wrote:
My interpretation is that the star orb is using an ability slot on it, I agree the wording could be clearer.

Yes I suspect that is how it is supposed to be played. It is of course muddy, with plenty of wriggle room for those you like to dig into the details of the rules not to pay for it.

For starters you have to have at least a level 5 ancestry feat to get a spell slot to use the required innate surge power. So its a pretty ordinary familiar for the first 4 levels. That really triggers people paying for abilities that they can't use....

Sovereign Court

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Warrior Androids are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, but this proficiency doesn't scale with any higher level proficiencies you gain, making it rather pointless for most characters.

Would it be possible to give proficiency in fewer weapons, but make it scale with your main class proficiency?

Viking Shieldbearer makes you trained with battle axe or longsword, but again this proficiency doesn't scale, making it kinda pointless after level 5 or so.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It does have some gimmicky applications for letting rogues and spellcasters qualify for things that require martial weapons (or wizards qualifying for things that need simple weapons) at the very least.

Does feel weird that there's no higher level option to scale that proficiency or anything though. Sort of sets a ticking timer on the heritage if you aren't using it for feat prereqs, which feels a little bit like a newb trap.


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Consider that we are talking about a heritage and a generale feat.

It's only normal that they don't scale or they don't have a second feat to upgrade them, or else it would lead to some sort of powercreep again.

Same can be said for the conrasu heritage which gives a medium armor but no armor proficiency.

I mean, with this 2e we are far from the concept of "Do a race X character because you won't have to expend class or general feats to get Y, and can just sacrifice ancestry feats" approach, and it wouldn't be healthy for the balance to go back and give gimmicks or shortcuts which make an ancestry ( or heritage ) better than another.

Classes who'll benefit from the android warrior heritage will face problems starting from lvl 13, which means that they have 12 levels with a extraordinary good heritage.

As for the conrasu, we are talking about a breastplate ( medium armor ) with the comfort trait available since level 1 and with no bulk ( you save 2 bulks ). Also, since it's a breastplate, the character would be able to almost entirely drop its dex ( 12 dex required ).

Really extraordindary even without the armor proficiency.

Sovereign Court

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Let's not clutter this thread with extended discussion, plenty of other threads on this already.


Ascalaphus wrote:

I disagree. Taking an option to use a weapon or armor should mean that you can keep using it just as well at later levels too. Especially for something like a heritage that you can't retrain out of when it becomes useless. If you take a feat or heritage to unlock a weapon that's a little bit better than what you could normally use, then you paid for that; you're not spending that feat or heritage on something else.

Some ancestries being good for some builds... that's already the case. Look at every paladin with unconventional weaponry and a flickmace. In that case it's not boosting your advanced weapon proficiency, it's just shifting the flickmace to martial so that it advances at your normal pace. But the end result is the same. And almost every ancestry has an ancestral weapon feat like that.

We should avoid time bomb / newb trap options like this. We already have a suitable paradigm: move some options to a lower proficiency (simple -> wizard weapons; martial -> simple; adanced > martial). And we also have the paradigm of Archer/Mauler/Sentinel for increasing proficiency, if you want to do it in the other direction.

You are wrong there.

Ancestry is different from heritage.
And as you can see yourself, we are talking about heritages ( perks nobody but specific ancestries with that specific heritage can achieve ).

As for the flickmace, any champion or paladin, since the main purpose is to maximise ( or exploit, given the weapon you'll be wielding ) the effects of the retributive strike ) is able to get the flick mage through adopted ancestry, if not human or gnome.

Ascalaphus wrote:
Let's not clutter this thread with extended discussion, plenty of other threads on this already.

I think this could also be useful for the developers, since they are human being like you and me ( and they might have either considered what we are discussing about or not. Everything related to the topic might eventually come in handy ), but I obviously respect your point of view.


World Guide, page 84, under languages in the mwangi expanse, Garundi is listed. This is not a real language, I ask James Jacobs about it several months ago and he agreed that it was a mistake. It should be "Osiriani".


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
KaiBlob1 wrote:
World Guide, page 84, under languages in the mwangi expanse, Garundi is listed. This is not a real language, I ask James Jacobs about it several months ago and he agreed that it was a mistake. It should be "Osiriani".

To be fair, none of them are real Languages.:P

Paizo Employee Customer Service Representative

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Added spoiler tags to necessary post.


LOAG - Mask of Fear (1th level orc ancestry feat) is a free action and reads:

"Special You can use this reaction even if you have a condition tied to the frightened condition that would normally prevent you from using a reaction [...]."

It should probably say "free action" instead of "reaction".


I'm not sure this is so much errata, but it's definitely something I haven't seen answered anywhere. How long do Fleshwarps live? Is it something a player is free to play around with, or should we assume they all have vaguely humanoid lifespans? I think I remember a developer on the forums recently saying that if an age limit isn't written in the races entry, one should assume it's a normal lifespan. I personally feel like maybe fleshwarps should be an exception, but I wonder what the official answer would be. Thank you!


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

"Normal lifespan" for who?

I'd say, the way stuff has been written for 2E, that lifespan for just about any critter is "however long the GM (or for PCs, the player in consultation with the GM) needs it to be".


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From what I saw of that discussion, I think the default was meant to be a human lifespan.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Not sure if it was a mistake or not.. in the Character Guide pg. 102 the Uzunjati Storytelling feat from the Magaambyan Attendant archetype is a level 6 feat that has a prerequisite of "master in a Recall Knowledge skill", & you don't gain master proficiency in any skill until level 7 (that I'm aware of). However in the wording of the feat it states "Roll a check with a skill that can be used to Recall Knowledge in which you have expert proficiency".. I would think the prerequisite would be changed from master to expert.. I only found this because of the Strength of Thousands AP & was reading through everything I could for it :P


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Should the Seaweed Leshy (Ancestry Guide) have the Amphibious trait? I don't think it's as integral as the Fungus trait to the Fungus Leshy but it seems appropriate.


2 things I think could do with some consideration in the Ancestry Guide:

1. Fleshwarps can be made from any carcass/parts, so they should be able to be small right? I think it would be cool if under size it said "Medium or Small (your choice)" or something along those lines

2. Anadi's spider form got a rework to be more usable in the previous LO errata, it would be nice if Kitsune could get the same thing. Earthly wilds and Dark fields both grant a fox form that uses the statistics of pest form, but thats really limiting. 10 foot speed really sucks, especially when even the red fox from b3 (just a normal, no-magically enhanced in any way fox) gets 35-foot movement speed. It would be nice if fox form stated that you retain your normal speed, or even if you got a 20ft speed. As it is it seems that something innate about kitsune magically makes them less than 1/3 the speed of normal foxes.


KaiBlob1 wrote:

2 things I think could do with some consideration in the Ancestry Guide:

1. Fleshwarps can be made from any carcass/parts, so they should be able to be small right? I think it would be cool if under size it said "Medium or Small (your choice)" or something along those lines

2. Anadi's spider form got a rework to be more usable in the previous LO errata, it would be nice if Kitsune could get the same thing. Earthly wilds and Dark fields both grant a fox form that uses the statistics of pest form, but thats really limiting. 10 foot speed really sucks, especially when even the red fox from b3 (just a normal, no-magically enhanced in any way fox) gets 35-foot movement speed. It would be nice if fox form stated that you retain your normal speed, or even if you got a 20ft speed. As it is it seems that something innate about kitsune magically makes them less than 1/3 the speed of normal foxes.

For #2, Beastkin have the same issue.


Ancestry Guide:

Is the Hampering trait really supposed to be equal to Sweep, Trip and Disarm on the same weapon on top of upgrading it to advanced?

Whip Claw looks a bit understatted compared to the martial Bladed Scarf.

Vigilant Seal

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

In secrets of magic, the Familiar ability masters form, requires manual dexterity and speech and is listed as a granted ability for shadow familiars but speech is not granted. I assume that since its a granted ability shadow familiars get master's form whether they have speech or not. Is speech intended to be a granted ability?


LordPretzels wrote:
In secrets of magic, the Familiar ability masters form, requires manual dexterity and speech and is listed as a granted ability for shadow familiars but speech is not granted. I assume that since its a granted ability shadow familiars get master's form whether they have speech or not. Is speech intended to be a granted ability?

This is the Errata thread for the Lost Omens Product line. You'd be better served posting this question in the Secrets of Magic Errata thread here.

Vigilant Seal

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Sagiam wrote:
LordPretzels wrote:
In secrets of magic, the Familiar ability masters form, requires manual dexterity and speech and is listed as a granted ability for shadow familiars but speech is not granted. I assume that since its a granted ability shadow familiars get master's form whether they have speech or not. Is speech intended to be a granted ability?
This is the Errata thread for the Lost Omens Product line. You'd be better served posting this question in the Secrets of Magic Errata thread here.

Much appreciated, but all those threads look to be closed.


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LordPretzels wrote:
Sagiam wrote:
LordPretzels wrote:
In secrets of magic, the Familiar ability masters form, requires manual dexterity and speech and is listed as a granted ability for shadow familiars but speech is not granted. I assume that since its a granted ability shadow familiars get master's form whether they have speech or not. Is speech intended to be a granted ability?
This is the Errata thread for the Lost Omens Product line. You'd be better served posting this question in the Secrets of Magic Errata thread here.
Much appreciated, but all those threads look to be closed.

That's... odd. I think you're looking at the *Playtest* threads. The thread I linked is newer, and is available for posting. Try clicking on the blue →here←word.

Sczarni

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After learning that some users have greyscale settings enabled (and therefore can't always see the blue text) I try to bold my links to be more noticable.


Nefreet wrote:
After learning that some users have greyscale settings enabled (and therefore can't always see the blue text) I try to bold my links to be more noticable.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll do that in the future.


Nefreet wrote:
After learning that some users have greyscale settings enabled (and therefore can't always see the blue text) I try to bold my links to be more noticable.

I have it set for dark screen, and it shows up as either yellow [never clicked] or green [clicked]: didn't know there was a greyscale.


In Lost Omens Gods & Magic the Major Boon listed for Erastil doesn't indicate how often the speak with plants innate spell that it grants can be used (presumably it's either at will or once per day, and I'm guessing the former since it's a Major Boon, but generally things that grant innate spells specify the frequency and this one doesn't seem to).


The Alignment Ampoule in the Pathfinder Society Guide appears to be missing the Splash trait.


Gonna mention this here, since it was brought up on the /r/Pathfinder2E subreddit and I noticed it was a problem related to Lost Omens: Gods & Magic.

The khopesh has flavor text saying "The tip of a khopesh is usually hooked so that it can be used to disarm an opponent’s shield or weapon." However, the only traits the khopesh has is the Uncommon and Trip traits. If the purpose is to allow them to also Disarm, I feel the Disarm trait should be on there.

Some people also suggested downgrading the damage to 1d6 and giving it the Trip, Disarm, and Versatile P traits. Especially since the Versatile, given the flavor text also states "...allowing it to be swung like a handaxe or thrust like a short sword."


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ezekieru wrote:

Gonna mention this here, since it was brought up on the /r/Pathfinder2E subreddit and I noticed it was a problem related to Lost Omens: Gods & Magic.

The khopesh has flavor text saying "The tip of a khopesh is usually hooked so that it can be used to disarm an opponent’s shield or weapon." However, the only traits the khopesh has is the Uncommon and Trip traits. If the purpose is to allow them to also Disarm, I feel the Disarm trait should be on there.

Some people also suggested downgrading the damage to 1d6 and giving it the Trip, Disarm, and Versatile P traits. Especially since the Versatile, given the flavor text also states "...allowing it to be swung like a handaxe or thrust like a short sword."

Don't nerf my Khopesh lol!


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ezekieru wrote:

Gonna mention this here, since it was brought up on the /r/Pathfinder2E subreddit and I noticed it was a problem related to Lost Omens: Gods & Magic.

The khopesh has flavor text saying "The tip of a khopesh is usually hooked so that it can be used to disarm an opponent’s shield or weapon." However, the only traits the khopesh has is the Uncommon and Trip traits. If the purpose is to allow them to also Disarm, I feel the Disarm trait should be on there.

Some people also suggested downgrading the damage to 1d6 and giving it the Trip, Disarm, and Versatile P traits. Especially since the Versatile, given the flavor text also states "...allowing it to be swung like a handaxe or thrust like a short sword."

That has come up a few times. Swapping Trip for Disarm makes it overlap with the nine-ring sword entirely. I think 1d6 slashing, Trip, Disarm, Versatile P would work, as would 1d6 slashing Disarm, Sweep, Trip (slashing Flail).

I think the biggest downside with the khopesh as-is is that it overlaps with the temple sword in the CRB - but doesn't have the monk trait. So just sort of weaker.


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Xethik wrote:
Ezekieru wrote:

Gonna mention this here, since it was brought up on the /r/Pathfinder2E subreddit and I noticed it was a problem related to Lost Omens: Gods & Magic.

The khopesh has flavor text saying "The tip of a khopesh is usually hooked so that it can be used to disarm an opponent’s shield or weapon." However, the only traits the khopesh has is the Uncommon and Trip traits. If the purpose is to allow them to also Disarm, I feel the Disarm trait should be on there.

Some people also suggested downgrading the damage to 1d6 and giving it the Trip, Disarm, and Versatile P traits. Especially since the Versatile, given the flavor text also states "...allowing it to be swung like a handaxe or thrust like a short sword."

That has come up a few times. Swapping Trip for Disarm makes it overlap with the nine-ring sword entirely. I think 1d6 slashing, Trip, Disarm, Versatile P would work, as would 1d6 slashing Disarm, Sweep, Trip (slashing Flail).

I think the biggest downside with the khopesh as-is is that it overlaps with the temple sword in the CRB - but doesn't have the monk trait. So just sort of weaker.

That's fair. I'm just re-posting it in the official Lost Omens thread for clarity's sake. I made sure to check all the pages for mentions of the khopesh before I made the post.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ezekieru wrote:
Xethik wrote:
Ezekieru wrote:

Gonna mention this here, since it was brought up on the /r/Pathfinder2E subreddit and I noticed it was a problem related to Lost Omens: Gods & Magic.

The khopesh has flavor text saying "The tip of a khopesh is usually hooked so that it can be used to disarm an opponent’s shield or weapon." However, the only traits the khopesh has is the Uncommon and Trip traits. If the purpose is to allow them to also Disarm, I feel the Disarm trait should be on there.

Some people also suggested downgrading the damage to 1d6 and giving it the Trip, Disarm, and Versatile P traits. Especially since the Versatile, given the flavor text also states "...allowing it to be swung like a handaxe or thrust like a short sword."

That has come up a few times. Swapping Trip for Disarm makes it overlap with the nine-ring sword entirely. I think 1d6 slashing, Trip, Disarm, Versatile P would work, as would 1d6 slashing Disarm, Sweep, Trip (slashing Flail).

I think the biggest downside with the khopesh as-is is that it overlaps with the temple sword in the CRB - but doesn't have the monk trait. So just sort of weaker.
That's fair. I'm just re-posting it in the official Lost Omens thread for clarity's sake. I made sure to check all the pages for mentions of the khopesh before I made the post.

I just meant the "came up a few times" as a reinforcing point for the change. It's not as hot of a topic as the Bladed Scarf was but I think it deserves to have a bit more of a defined niche.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

At the very least the weapon probably shouldn't tell us it's good for disarming or thrusting if it can't do either of those things, though the khopesh isn't the only weapon with that issue.

Silver Crusade

scyfir wrote:
Possible errata candidate: Pg 130 of Gods and Magic, Hanspur's 2nd level cleric spell is aqueous orb, a 3rd level spell.

Any position about this topic?

Sczarni

HERE is the discussion thread on it.


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Argazhon wrote:
scyfir wrote:
Possible errata candidate: Pg 130 of Gods and Magic, Hanspur's 2nd level cleric spell is aqueous orb, a 3rd level spell.
Any position about this topic?

It seems to be an issue with some deity-given spells. Charon, Naderi, and Sifkesh have Crushing Despair, a 5th level spell, listed as a 4th level spell. There are three other deities, Ahriman, Groteus, and The Lost Prince, that give out Crushing Despair but do so at 5th level. Other than Ahriman, all five deities came from Gods & Magic.

This was also briefly discussed on the first page of this thread btw.


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Are there PDFs of the PF2E errata? I found the errata page, but no links to pdfs of this information. I'd like to download and print them off and stick them in myu books.


What happens when a conrasu with the Rite of Reinforcement heritage has their armor destroyed?


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Gaulin wrote:
What happens when a conrasu with the Rite of Reinforcement heritage has their armor destroyed?

Rite of Reinforcement: "Your woven exoskeleton rivals the hardest armors that can be found."

Conrasus: "Conrasus can't maintain their integrity without their wooden exoskeletons. A conrasu that loses its exoskeleton dissipates and dies, though they can be returned to life with magic like other beings."

If the armor, which is their exoskeleton, is destroyed then the Conrasus "dissipates and dies".


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The Conrasu Rite of Reinforcement is not as separate item. You can't really apply item rules to it, except where it tells you too.

So I would ignore all item breakage rules. You can't separate the armor from its wearer. It is the wearer. It is not a real item.

Besides to destroy the armor you just need to kill the Conrasu in it.


Honestly I was looking at the automaton and thought this similar situation would answer both questions - but good eye graystone, I missed that. And I would like what you say to be true gortle, that would be cool


Gaulin wrote:
And I would like what you say to be true gortle, that would be cool

Yes I agree it is an interpretation. The rules support it but they don't require it. It would be prefereable if the rules were clear.

Silver Crusade

On Guns & Gears page 25, we have the Reverse Engineer class feat(Lvl 2) for Inventor. It requires Expert in crafting, but the inventor only gets Expert in crafting at level 3.

Is there any other case of class feats that you don't meet the requirement at the level they're avaiable?

Also, the Construct Companion feats all follow the naming pattern:
Advanced Construct Companion(Lvl 4), Incredible Construct Companion(Lvl 8), but Paragon Companion(Lvl 14) is missing the Construct in it's feat name.

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