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One thing that I hope gets done on the horizon, and I have a strong feeling it will, is making class feats and giving them traits for multiple classes. [...]
These kinds of things aren't merely on the horizon, they're in our wake as well! Lost Omens Character Guide has fighter/champion class feats in the Knights of Lastwall section. Then, there's the Academy Instructors section of Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide, which has several class feats for multiple classes (like Fane's Fourberie for swashbucklers and rogues and Farabellus Flip for fighters, barbarians, and rangers ) and examples of the rules framework that makes them function correctly (mainly verifying who the feats are for and noting that once a character with one of the classes has selected the feat, it loses the traits from the other classes).
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I expect Strength of Thousands to have druid and wizard feats.
One thing that I hope gets done on the horizon, and I have a strong feeling it will, is making class feats and giving them traits for multiple classes. [...]These kinds of things aren't merely on the horizon, they're in our wake as well! Lost Omens Character Guide has fighter/champion class feats in the Knights of Lastwall section. Then, there's the Academy Instructors section of Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide, which has several class feats for multiple classes (like Fane's Fourberie for swashbucklers and rogues and Farabellus Flip for fighters, barbarians, and rangers ) and examples of the rules framework that makes them function correctly (mainly verifying who the feats are for and noting that once a character with one of the classes has selected the feat, it loses the traits from the other classes).
Well there we go! So some feats might pop up anywhere, even a lost omens book. Don't give up hope guys.
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Just curious if this is on you guys' radar yet, but have you thought about what to do for backwards compatibility with those feats when new, thematically appropriate classes come out later down the line? I remember that being a bit of a problem in 1E, but figured the modular feat system would have a better time handling it.One thing that I hope gets done on the horizon, and I have a strong feeling it will, is making class feats and giving them traits for multiple classes. [...]These kinds of things aren't merely on the horizon, they're in our wake as well! Lost Omens Character Guide has fighter/champion class feats in the Knights of Lastwall section. Then, there's the Academy Instructors section of Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide, which has several class feats for multiple classes (like Fane's Fourberie for swashbucklers and rogues and Farabellus Flip for fighters, barbarians, and rangers ) and examples of the rules framework that makes them function correctly (mainly verifying who the feats are for and noting that once a character with one of the classes has selected the feat, it loses the traits from the other classes).
We've seen this with archetypes already, assuming it wasn't a short enough list to just reprint, they could do the same and just put a shorthand list at the beginning of the class that says what existing stuff they get at certain levels.
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I wonder how well magus will work unarmed, or with a monk dedication. I just made a character from Worlds Without Number which was essentially this to an extent, and I wonder how well I will be able to transfer her over in PF2e
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I wonder how well magus will work unarmed, or with a monk dedication. I just made a character from Worlds Without Number which was essentially this to an extent, and I wonder how well I will be able to transfer her over in PF2e
One of the feats from the playtest was called "Arcane Fists" and essentially gave Magus 1d6 and the option to do lethal with unarmed strikes. Magus no longer gets their first feat at level one on account of just how much other stuff they do get, but I haven't seen anything said about them losing this feat.
Personally I hope it stays in as well. I like the idea of playing a Magus who can fall back on just punching people if they get ambushed or disarmed.
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Man this sucks, the wizard really needs more interesting feats
There is a unique class archetype called Rune Lord in SoM, which I'm quietly hoping is just a "Wizard but better" series of options, but I'm prepared to be disappointed.
That said, if SoM doesn't revitalise the Wizard overall, I'm probably going to shelf my expectations of the class as a whole for a few years. SoM should really be the big explosive book for casters overall, so it will be extremely disheartening if it does the Wizard dirty.
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How are Soulforge items different from Relics? They seem like they're basically the same thing, an item (weapon, armor, whatever) that gains power as you do.
Speaking of, with all awesome new items, do we expect some new Relic aspects? I was disappointed to not have a Winter or otherwise cold aspect in the GMG as I have a character who would absolutely want one. And I could see several other aspects that would be useful.
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From what I read from the spoilers, the soulforge stuff is meant to give you temporary abilities. An example was making any weapon a thrown weapon with the returning rune as an ability you can activate.
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I got this mixed up a lot at first too - soulforge and soul seeds are different things. Soulforger is an archetype fos summoning a specific item, either a weapon or armor, and feats to give it cool abilities. Soul seeds are items you attune to your soul that grow with your character, they are inside your body. They work just like a relic does, you get 'gifts' from them as you level up.
We didn't get any details about the Rune Lord archetype other than he gives up some spell schools, did we?
I assume they still lose the same two schools depending on their specialization as in PF1. Nor sure I like this idea. For some reason, losing two spell schools completely seems like a bigger deal in PF2.
On the other hand, you might be able to gain spells of those forbidden schools from an archetype, which would definitely help.
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We didn't get any details about the Rune Lord archetype other than he gives up some spell schools, did we?
I assume they still lose the same two schools depending on their specialization as in PF1. Nor sure I like this idea. For some reason, losing two spell schools completely seems like a bigger deal in PF2.
On the other hand, you might be able to gain spells of those forbidden schools from an archetype, which would definitely help.
You lose the schools and your focus spells are instead Cleric domains based on a certain sin, they will introduce the sloth domain to complete as the others already exist.
The archetype will also have polearm feats.
Soulforger is an archetype fos summoning a specific item, either a weapon or armor, and feats to give it cool abilities.Adolin kholin wants to know your location
From the way it was talked about, the soulforger archetype really seems like devs looked at all the characters across nerddom that summon weapons and armor and tried to incorporate as many of those tropes as they can. I think it was mark who said there are big finishing moves you can pull off with the archetype too (don't quote me on that but I'm pretty sure)
We didn't get any details about the Rune Lord archetype other than he gives up some spell schools, did we?
I assume they still lose the same two schools depending on their specialization as in PF1. Nor sure I like this idea. For some reason, losing two spell schools completely seems like a bigger deal in PF2.
On the other hand, you might be able to gain spells of those forbidden schools from an archetype, which would definitely help.
You lose the schools and your focus spells are instead Cleric domains based on a certain sin, they will introduce the sloth domain to complete as the others already exist.
The archetype will also have polearm feats.
Oh, yes! I vaguely remember hearing that stuff before. Completely forget about it. Thanks for the reminder.
Now I'm curious if that archetype will be a viable option for a hybrid character since I personally love hybrid characters.
But where are those sin domains? I can't find any on the archives. Or do we just get something that's a close to the sin? Like confidence for pride or something?
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You lose the schools and your focus spells are instead Cleric domains based on a certain sin, they will introduce the sloth domain to complete as the others already exist.We didn't get any details about the Rune Lord archetype other than he gives up some spell schools, did we?
I assume they still lose the same two schools depending on their specialization as in PF1. Nor sure I like this idea. For some reason, losing two spell schools completely seems like a bigger deal in PF2.
On the other hand, you might be able to gain spells of those forbidden schools from an archetype, which would definitely help.
Hopefully it retains the extra slot that the schools gives. If it doesn't grant that extra slot, it will probably be hot garbage.
But where are those sin domains? I can't find any on the archives. Or do we just get something that's a close to the sin? Like confidence for pride or something?
They won't be cleric domains. Just domian-like.
They will be wholly new things in the book itself.
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So basically Rune Lord is basically the old Wizard? Or is it more like the old Thassilonian Specialist? Or more like the old Rune Sage?
Also polearm feats? Yeah thats sounds weirdly specific. Is it for a certain runelord to make any sense eventually?
Each of the seven runelords wields a specific type of polearm as their weapon of choice.
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As a reminder, some things you're wondering about will be in the spoilers. Check here and/or here as a good starting point, and there's also extra stuff from the Discord in this document.
Is soulforger a class archetype or regular archtype?
Regular.
Speaking of, with all awesome new items, do we expect some new Relic aspects?
Yeah, there are 1 or 2 new ones. But most of the new work will go into Soul Seeds.
Is there anyone talking about "truename"?
It'll be more GM-facing/-reliant rules, and there hasn't been much detail given, but I'm curious about how that'll go.
So basically Rune Lord is basically the old Wizard? Or is it more like the old Thassilonian Specialist? Or more like the old Rune Sage?
Also polearm feats? Yeah thats sounds weirdly specific. Is it for a certain runelord to make any sense eventually?
It's Thassilonian sin magic, not default PF1 Wizard stuff. They get polearm stuff because the Runelords themselves used polearms.
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Does anyone know the prereqs for getting into Soulforger?
WIS 14 OR be a divine caster.
Is there anyone talking about "truename"?I didn't see much spoilers for this except that it's Rare and mostly a GM thing. It involves some way to research (probably the Research subsystem in the GMG) and benefits.
I'm betting something like "if you know the True Name of a creature, that creature doesn't benefit from the incapacitation trait for spells you cast that target it." Because it's perfect flavour-wise for what True Names usually do in fiction. It might not be the only thing though, as that would only benefit against higher level creatures.
There's also some spells that use True Names, too. But all options, both spells and otherwise are marked Rare, and are more appropriate on a campaign-wide inclusion.
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I was just going over one of the panels there and I just came across the explicit call out for the Shifting Rune on the new weapon staves for the magus.
Shifting was never that big of a deal pre-errata. It was just a nice trick that freed up the hands a bit when you weren’t using it to cast. I’m sad to see that it’s been specifically disallowed on staves in general.
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Magus have a lvl 6 feat that let them fuse a weapon with staff if you wish to do that.
But where are those sin domains? I can't find any on the archives. Or do we just get something that's a close to the sin? Like confidence for pride or something?They won't be cleric domains. Just domian-like.
They will be wholly new things in the book itself.
You sure? They said SoM will add Sloth domain because the others already exist. That did sound like the other six sins are already covered somewhere.
As a guess...
Pride: Ambition or Confidence?
Greed: Wealth
Wrath: Tyranny or Zeal?
Envy: Not sure about this one.
Lust: Passion
Gluttony: Indulgence
Sloth: Apparently new.
Magus have a lvl 6 feat that let them fuse a weapon with staff if you wish to do that.
Where did you see that ? :o I was aware of the feat, but not the level or details
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As a guess...
Pride: Ambition or Confidence?
Greed: Wealth
Wrath: Tyranny or Zeal?
Envy: Not sure about this one.
Lust: Passion
Gluttony: Indulgence
Sloth: Apparently new.
Something like that, yeah. Though I'd probably add Destruction to Wrath instead of Tyranny.
Envy could be something like Change or Perfection domain, I guess? Maybe Decay or Pain would be more fitting?
Not a big fan of most domains on that list, to be honest. But losing a wizard's focus spell is usually not a real detriment so it's probably fine.
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Something like that, yeah. Though I'd probably add Destruction to Wrath instead of Tyranny.
Envy could be something like Change or Perfection domain, I guess? Maybe Decay or Pain would be more fitting?
Not a big fan of most domains on that list, to be honest. But losing a wizard's focus spell is usually not a real detriment so it's probably fine.
I really don't think its just going to be a copy-paste of existing domains with a fresh label. I haven't seen anything in the spoilers thus far that say these won't be new abilties.
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I really don't think its just going to be a copy-paste of existing domains with a fresh label. I haven't seen anything in the spoilers thus far that say these won't be new abilties.
Kyrone said afew posts earlier that they're adding just Sloth in SoM since the rest is already covered.
It might not be in the spoilers (because those things can be incomlete) but I also remember them saying as much during the live stream.
Hm... I might just rewatch it to make sure. I'm really intrigued by the possibility of the Runelord class archetype.
The Magus' Spinning Staff attack gives me hope that it will be possible to build a Staff Magus in PF2.
Hm... I might just rewatch it to make sure. I'm really intrigued by the possibility of the Runelord class archetype.
Mark definitely says only Sloth gets a new set of focus spells because the other sins are already covered by domains.
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The Magus' Spinning Staff attack gives me hope that it will be possible to build a Staff Magus in PF2.
Twisting Tree is the Hybrid Studies that focus on staves, it let you put property runes on staves (except shifting), the focus spell is to hit two enemies in range and I believe that their Arcane cascade effect is to give reach to staves.
I wonder, would the focus spell allow you to hit 2 ennemies with a different weapon each ? In the case of a Gandalf cosplay for example. One with the staff, the other with the sword
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Hm... I might just rewatch it to make sure. I'm really intrigued by the possibility of the Runelord class archetype.Mark definitely says only Sloth gets a new set of focus spells because the other sins are already covered by domains.
If thats what they meant, then thats super lazy.
Between polearms, cleric domains and embedded ioun stones, I'm starting to worry that this archetype isn't going to do much for Wizard spellcasting.
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Between polearms, cleric domains and embedded ioun stones, I'm starting to worry that this archetype isn't going to do much for Wizard spellcasting.
Paizo are evidently extremely careful about power creep (which is rather justified, given how the 1st edition fared in that respect). APG classes are generally weaker than their CRB counterparts, new feats are generally on the same power level or weaker (with some very rare accidental outliers), and Flexible Preparation taking away the third of your slots shows that the new archetypes are not going to be power upgrades either. I very much doubt that Runelord's going to empower Wizard - more likely, it'll be a pure flavor choice.
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Between polearms, cleric domains and embedded ioun stones, I'm starting to worry that this archetype isn't going to do much for Wizard spellcasting.Paizo are evidently extremely careful about power creep (which is rather justified, given how the 1st edition fared in that respect). APG classes are generally weaker than their CRB counterparts, new feats are generally on the same power level or weaker (with some very rare accidental outliers), and Flexible Preparation taking away the third of your slots shows that the new archetypes are not going to be power upgrades either. I very much doubt that Runelord's going to empower Wizard - more likely, it'll be a pure flavor choice.
There have been a lot of threads on how the Wizard is behind in various places compared to other casters. A bit of a power bump to put them to the same place isn't much to ask.
While we don't need to rehash the reasons for this here (there have been enough threads), I feel like it will be a waste of space in SoM (as opposed to a more lore themed book or even an AP) if it doesn't do something meaningful for magic.
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Between polearms, cleric domains and embedded ioun stones, I'm starting to worry that this archetype isn't going to do much for Wizard spellcasting.Paizo are evidently extremely careful about power creep (which is rather justified, given how the 1st edition fared in that respect). APG classes are generally weaker than their CRB counterparts, new feats are generally on the same power level or weaker (with some very rare accidental outliers), and Flexible Preparation taking away the third of your slots shows that the new archetypes are not going to be power upgrades either. I very much doubt that Runelord's going to empower Wizard - more likely, it'll be a pure flavor choice.There have been a lot of threads on how the Wizard is behind in various places compared to other casters. A bit of a power bump to put them to the same place isn't much to ask.
While we don't need to rehash the reasons for this here (there have been enough threads), I feel like it will be a waste of space in SoM (as opposed to a more lore themed book or even an AP) if it doesn't do something meaningful for magic.
I'm still really excited for SoM but I definitely feel this a little bit when I realized witch wasn't going to get a shot in the arm with this book. Fingers crossed there's witch specific familiar stuff at least.
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- The conclusion on the Arcanist-style casting archetype was that Wizard seems like it will be one of the best classes to pair it with. As an arcane caster, they will also get access to Elementalist. Those two are probably your most Wizard-focused casting improvements for the book, apart from more additions to the Arcane list.
- One of the things people aren't fond of on Wizard is the weak focus spells. A class archetype that gives domain focus spells is something that addresses that. As far as "lazy", I'd much prefer this to them writing up seven mutually exclusive sets of two focus spells that only come up if you are playing one archetype that can only be used by one class. Plus, they're cool focus spells! The Indulgence intro spell, Overstuff, is a utility debuff, which is such a fun combination. It fits Gluttony as well as anything I'd expect from a custom write-up.
- Failing all that, Wizard did get a nice boost with the APG. Witch provides Int-based Arcane multiclassing for more spells at full DC.
That will be four archetypes to choose from that have some sort of additional benefit to Wizard for their casting: become the most flexible mid-caster (Wizard is the only prepared caster with max max slots), modify how your spell list works (restricted to Arcane and Primal), get some better focus spells without (I presume) the usual level delay of multiclassing (Wizard exclusive), and just get extra full-quality spell slots (only Cleric, Druid, and Primal/Occult/Divine Witch won't be able to get more full-DC slots from multiclassing).