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What class or classes in PF2 do you enjoy the most and why? I have to say I used to play a lot of casters in PF1, mostly wizards and sorcerers, but now I find I'm enjoying martial characters way more than I did. They feel way less limited and have more interesting and useful abilities than in PF1.
My favorite classes PF2:
Ranger: The ranger is such a versatile and well-built class. You can do a lot with the ranger class whether going melee or ranged. You have Legendary perception, good saves, lots of useful feats where it isn't always an easy choice of what to choose, and a lot of ways to build the class. Both Precision and Flurry are great for combat. You can fill in for the rogue role in a group for traps. Ranger has one of the best-designed chassis in PF2.
Barbarian: The instincts are thematically cool. The rage powers provide a wide range of useful abilities. You truly build into a raging, unstoppable juggernaut as you level up with legendary fortitude saves shrugging off poison, disease, and life destroying power. You do pretty insane damage while raging.
Druid: Very cool order powers. You can train in two orders easily. Primal spell list is very good. Good focus spells. Good armor and the ability to use a shield. Druid is a very well-rounded class whether you want to build an AoE damage Storm druid with an animal companion or a shape-changing combat beast with an animal companion.
Rogue: You are truly the master of skills. Very solid combat abilities. Both strength and dexterity rogue are good. Lots of good rogue concepts can be built whether the muscle-bound thug or the agile backstabber. Rogue does great damage and is highly useful in all aspects of the game with skills having similar power to magic in certain situations.
Those are the four classes I like best right now. All very fun to build. I'm looking most forward to the Magus and Inquisitor as those were two my favorite classes from PF1. I hope they are both as good as the ranger.
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Second the ranger. Hunt Prey and Hunter's Edge are fun to play around, and there are several directions you can take your character.
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I don't get to play much, but even though I hate what was done to magic (qualitative effects => knob adjusting), I think Wizard is my go to. Specifically Wiztchorcerer (Wiz, Witch MC full, Sorc MC for dangerous sorcery) now. I tried it in a 1 shot someone ran for high level on foundry. He sucked, but that was more due to the nature of the game session, where we had basically no preparation, or understanding of what we were getting into, and fought something that negated everything he did so well, that it may as well have had an anti-magic field up.
I am playing a storm druid with order explorer animal companion. It's nice having a useful third action. He's also Wizard MC (ancient elf), but not high enough level to do much with that yet.
I like the idea of clerics, but it seems pretty boring in this edition. I think I'd go cloistered MC champ if I was playing one.
I want to play a knockdown fighter. Seems like it would be very effective.
Edit: As for why wizard, I like options. I played a champion half-orc fighter in 5E once, and he was very effective, but so boring. I also like the idea of wizards, I guess. Most fun options have been ruined by duration decrease, range or area shortening, or some other means, but some are still there. As an example, in that 1-shot, I managed to block off a second boss who would have killed us when the two were working together, using a wall of force.
I want to try a Cleric MC Champion some time that stays behind the martials and in the center of the group using healing and Champion's Reaction to defend the party. Occasionally attack with Divine Lance from that bid point and pick up Reach Spell to be able to heal or divine lance from quite a ways. I think that would be fun.
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Battle Oracle for me. I love having to weigh power with drawbacks. It's fun thematically and also in combat. I also love playing as a melee/caster
Both are rules-applied-to-physics cases;
Monk: Self-reliant immortality (at least from biological aging) starting from 14th level!
It's very true to its mother genre high-level environment, which is chock full of ascended mortals who took their terrestrial time in centuries to ascend to a higher plane of existence, kind of.
Sorcerer: Self-reliant mumbo-jumbo all the way from 1st level!
Although I'd prefer if they used some other spell component other than V/S...
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I like Investigator and Rogue the most. What can I say? I really love being good at Skills and how Skill Feats work in PF2.
After them, it's probably Bard and Swashbuckler, both of those Classes have a lot of style and good social options, and I like style and social options.
The rogue is the only one I played so far and I absolutely love them. They're skillfull, charming, cunning, and apart from the d8 dice have the same chassis as most martials. I love having to think tactically about stepping, dodging and disengaging instead of staying there trading blows like some big fat brute (sorry, barbarian).
Bard would be my close second, I'd like to try them in an upcoming game. They seem to have lots of options and can help the party like no other - so it should be fun.
Rogue.
Because it gives me options. I hate only getting 3 skills to maximum. I love getting more skill feats. And at the end of the day I can hit hard and have his armor and weapon proficiency.
Only thing that suffers is d8 hp.
In PF1, this question was easy. In PF2, it's much more difficult since I like different aspects of each and multiclass to mix and match.
If I was told I couldn't multiclass, and was playing by the default number of feats, I think my answer would be Cleric.
Cleric has a powerful healing feature that frees up my spells to be used as I see fit, which is one of the reasons I liked them in PF1. They get some cool flavor from their deity choice, they can choose whether to go more fighty or more casty, deciding whether they want to muck about with focus spells or not.
Overall, I find Cleric to be a solid, welcome addition to most groups, no matter the build.
After Cleric it's Druid, for many of the same reasons.
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I want to play Investigator. I like the core mechanic, and I'm fond of how even a single level one feat is enough for the character to feel like they effortlessly notice things that others don't. The class provides lots of abilities that make you look competent in a system where that nat 1 will pretty much always mess you up.
Hard to answer this question.
I tend to avoid martials as I dislike when luck has too much of an impact on my performance. But I'm not pleased with PF2's Bard and Cleric despite being a big Bard player in previous editions.
I really like Sorcerer. Pimping my spell list is really a pleasure to me and between Signature Spells and the ability to cherry pick spells from other traditions it's really a blast.
I like Alchemist (despite the class being subpar). Poison is really an option I find interesting, I'm a bit sad the arrival of the Toxicologist hasn't expanded the options much. And I like support characters in general.
I also like what they did with the Ranger and have fun playing mine.
Swashbuckler is awesome, a very complex class to play but I'm not sure I'll ever find the time to create and level a 4th character.
I started off as a Barbarian. So there is some nostalgia to go along with the swinging of steel. This is probably my official overall favorite.
In PF2, Fighter might take that cake, but it's close.
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Investigator is what I want to say, but I haven't seen it in play yet since I'm GMing my only game right now. None of my players are interested in the class.
My favorite role in a party is the forward scout with stealth, so Rogues and Rangers are my jam. I prefer the undefined second role of the rogue as opposed to the defined melee front liner extra role of the ranger in general, but ranger gets the nod if the party needs more front liners.
Mostly, thief rogue has a free stat to sink anywhere they want, so they take on archetypes of all varieties better than just about anyone else.
Hard to answer this question.
I tend to avoid martials as I dislike when luck has too much of an impact on my performance. But I'm not pleased with PF2's Bard and Cleric despite being a big Bard player in previous editions.I really like Sorcerer. Pimping my spell list is really a pleasure to me and between Signature Spells and the ability to cherry pick spells from other traditions it's really a blast.
I like Alchemist (despite the class being subpar). Poison is really an option I find interesting, I'm a bit sad the arrival of the Toxicologist hasn't expanded the options much. And I like support characters in general.
I also like what they did with the Ranger and have fun playing mine.
Swashbuckler is awesome, a very complex class to play but I'm not sure I'll ever find the time to create and level a 4th character.
The Swashbuckler is really interesting to watch in action. It's a very active class that requires a little thinking of action order, positioning, and a bit of intuition to see when a good opportunity for another attack is available versus focusing on the finisher which is the meat and potatoes of your damage as you illustrated in your guide. Bon Mot is really helpful for setting up a class like a witch with a lot of will save hexes.
Doesn't deal as much damage as a barbarian most of the time, then again I've only seen a fighter matching a barbarian for damage. Barbarians really bring the pain.
Initially I would have said the Bard. Theyre absolutely awesome support and get almost all the spells I love the most.
Post APG, I'm really loving my Cleric though. Cleric gets amazing healing for "free", alongside a decent alotment of decent devine spells, and the class has very little pressure to pick up a huge number of class feats (unlike Bard, which while powerful really felt like it wanted just a ton of class feats for itself).
This means the core of my Cleric remains a Cleric, and I'm free to explore archetypes for building out and identifying my character.
Unfortunately, this means there's a huge variety of Clerics I'd love to play :D
I'm starting to see Wizard in much the same way, which along with Archetypes to add healing or Divine Flavor (Blessed One) may help me fit in a Wizard in the future, if i get to actually play in more games.
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Initially I would have said the Bard. Theyre absolutely awesome support and get almost all the spells I love the most.
Post APG, I'm really loving my Cleric though. Cleric gets amazing healing for "free", alongside a decent alotment of decent devine spells, and the class has very little pressure to pick up a huge number of class feats (unlike Bard, which while powerful really felt like it wanted just a ton of class feats for itself).
This means the core of my Cleric remains a Cleric, and I'm free to explore archetypes for building out and identifying my character.
Unfortunately, this means there's a huge variety of Clerics I'd love to play :D
I'm starting to see Wizard in much the same way, which along with Archetypes to add healing or Divine Flavor (Blessed One) may help me fit in a Wizard in the future, if i get to actually play in more games.
Bards are one of the most powerful combat classes in the game with unmatched supporting abilities and a versatile occult spell list with additional versatility with Polymath.
But they bore me to tears. Most of my rounds I spend Harmonizing and using two composition cantrips. That covers everything I need to do to let the martials hammer the bad guys. If a fight is particularly tough or enemies are set up for good AoE, I drop some hammer spells.
It's not an active enough play-style for me. The bard is easy mode caster whose composition actions are so good they are no brainers to use. Their best feats are obvious.
Very good class. If you can envision performing on a constant basis as mega-rockstar bard with power or classical power house, then it's the class for you. It's just too simple for my tastes.
Initially I would have said the Bard. Theyre absolutely awesome support and get almost all the spells I love the most.
Post APG, I'm really loving my Cleric though. Cleric gets amazing healing for "free", alongside a decent alotment of decent devine spells, and the class has very little pressure to pick up a huge number of class feats (unlike Bard, which while powerful really felt like it wanted just a ton of class feats for itself).
This means the core of my Cleric remains a Cleric, and I'm free to explore archetypes for building out and identifying my character.
Unfortunately, this means there's a huge variety of Clerics I'd love to play :D
I'm starting to see Wizard in much the same way, which along with Archetypes to add healing or Divine Flavor (Blessed One) may help me fit in a Wizard in the future, if i get to actually play in more games.
Bards are one of the most powerful combat classes in the game with unmatched supporting abilities and a versatile occult spell list with additional versatility with Polymath.
But they bore me to tears. Most of my rounds I spend Harmonizing and using two composition cantrips. That covers everything I need to do to let the martials hammer the bad guys. If a fight is particularly tough or enemies are set up for good AoE, I drop some hammer spells.
It's not an active enough play-style for me. The bard is easy mode caster whose composition actions are so good they are no brainers to use. Their best feats are obvious.
Very good class. If you can envision performing on a constant basis as mega-rockstar bard with power or classical power house, then it's the class for you. It's just too simple for my tastes.
Honestly, I really like the Occult list and spellcasting is what I'd really like from the Bard. Its a shame that its not really their strong suit - too few slots, and too many reasons to do things other than cast spells.
They have great support for it, but that support itself is balanced because of their spellcasting being limited.
I would really love to see a Wizard-like Occult caster some day.
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Bards are really good but I think they're too 'solved'. Having such universally useful one action abilities means you pretty much can always have a full turn of useful stuff.
People gripe about spellcaster action economy, but having no good answer for your third action is, imo, a really important conceit of PF2's design.
My favorite right now is probably the Investigator. It does a lot of the PF2 ranger would be able to do and genuinely just has a lot of neat stuff. I still feel it's frustratingly limiting in certain respects (like being another class that requires agile/finesse weapons for its combat mechanics to work), but not as much as the Ranger and the tricks it does get are really cool.
My favorite right now is probably the Investigator. It does a lot of the PF2 ranger would be able to do and genuinely just has a lot of neat stuff. I still feel it's frustratingly limiting in certain respects (like being another class that requires agile/finesse weapons for its combat mechanics to work), but not as much as the Ranger and the tricks it does get are really cool.
A strength focused investigator using a d12 martial weapon isn't that far behind an int to attack investigator on the first attack and I think is going to pull ahead or at least even if both are making two attacks. You're behind on first hit accuracy, but you're way ahead on average damage on the second (and rarely, third) attack and the same (agile aside) on your attack modifier.
It's not the way the class is meant to be played, but you can do it, probably with some Sentinel and/or Mauler (power attack or improved knockdown plus devise a stratagem is a good combo) mixed in.
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I would really love to see a Wizard-like Occult caster some day.
So... Witch?
I would really love to see a Wizard-like Occult caster some day.So... Witch?
I'm looking for the sort of spell volume a Wizard gets.
5-6 slots at highest level is more valuable to me than what witch gets, for the most part.
I would really love to see a Wizard-like Occult caster some day.So... Witch?I'm looking for the sort of spell volume a Wizard gets.
5-6 slots at highest level is more valuable to me than what witch gets, for the most part.
What about an Occult Sorcerer with a bard or witch multiclass? That would really stack the Occult Spells. There are some good low level occult spells like illusory creature that don't need to be heightened to be useful.
Druid for me, it hits all of my buttons. It's the most varied class, with a blasting option, pet option, melee option, healing option. It needs almost no items to perform well, and has an awesome spell list to boot. Having a feat to stop aging is also a huge plus for me personally, and I love the nature theme.
I do really like sorcerer as well. I love that it also needs no items, and the theme is very cool (very simple, born with powers. Done). One of the main things that prevents it from being my favorite is not having an option to have a long lasting spell or feature to fall back on reliably (wild shape gets feat support to last as long as you need it to when you're out of spells) that isn't cantrips. That's my biggest hope for secrets of magic, some sort of solution to that like a line of feats that makes cantrips closer in damage to martials (not as strong, but closer, maybe in exchange for one less spell per level or something), maybe metamagic that makes them target an area or other things, like how martials get so many feats that alter their strikes.
Edit - yes I want kineticist really really badly
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topically, wizard MC champion seems pretty decent, picking up heavy armor potentially at 1st (eventually optionally Expert proficiency; what other ways are there to get Expert in medium or heavy armor?) and later champion’s reaction for that third action. Also divine grace seems nice.
If you just want the armor proficiencies without having to spend another feat, try the Sentinel archetype. You'll need to use a General Feat to get Heavy Armor proficiency first, then Sentinel Archtype dedication, and you get Light, Medium and Heavy immediately trained, and they go to expert at level 13 without any additional feat expenditure. So this costs you 1 class feat.
If you want the divine grace, lay on hands, and/or champion's reaction (which btw all cost extra feats), and are willing to accept the edicts and anathema, then I guess you can go Champion, but then you need to spend an additional class feat to advance your armor proficiency to expert. This costs you 2-5 class feats.
An alternative - If you are a Human or Half-Human, you could use 1 ancestry and 1 + 4 = 5 class feats to get Sentinel, then Multitalented for Witch Dedication at Level 9, then use the 4 class feats to get the MC Witch Spellcasting!
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When I heard that paladins had changed to champions, allowing champions of other good deities, my brain went straight to my favorite deity, Nethys. I looked at the new edicts/anathemas for Nethys and had a crisis. "What on earth would a champion of Nethys stand for?" Champions can't cast spells. What would they proselytize about? I theoried and crafted, and scrapped and then repeated. My final result is better than I could have hoped.
This wizard MC champion (somewhat soon to be MC cleric) of Nethys is so much fun to play. The only downside is the HP. For a somewhat frontliner, it is sketchy. Describing the look of my character with his longsword and full plate and starting fights off with a fireball or hand of the apprentice is just fun. The wizard class is amazing at MCing because there is no loss of what a wizard is. You are just adding to it.
My other favorite at the moment is my cleric MC champion of Pharasma...
...I really need to stop picking neutral deities. It really cripples the attack power of clerics...
...I did a cloistered cleric and then the champion gave me heavy armor prof and lay on hands. This super healer is great fun to play and has never received a complaint nor had anyone die on his watch (not for lack of the dice trying).
While many folks will focus on what classes can do inside of themselves, I encourage everyone to take note that PF2 was built to be extremely modular. I further encourage you to look at all of the options for your character. You don't have to compromise on your character concept.
When I heard that paladins had changed to champions, allowing champions of other good deities, my brain went straight to my favorite deity, Nethys. I looked at the new edicts/anathemas for Nethys and had a crisis. "What on earth would a champion of Nethys stand for?" Champions can't cast spells. What would they proselytize about? I theoried and crafted, and scrapped and then repeated. My final result is better than I could have hoped.
This wizard MC champion (somewhat soon to be MC cleric) of Nethys is so much fun to play. The only downside is the HP. For a somewhat frontliner, it is sketchy. Describing the look of my character with his longsword and full plate and starting fights off with a fireball or hand of the apprentice is just fun. The wizard class is amazing at MCing because there is no loss of what a wizard is. You are just adding to it.
My other favorite at the moment is my cleric MC champion of Pharasma...
...I really need to stop picking neutral deities. It really cripples the attack power of clerics...
...I did a cloistered cleric and then the champion gave me heavy armor prof and lay on hands. This super healer is great fun to play and has never received a complaint nor had anyone die on his watch (not for lack of the dice trying).
While many folks will focus on what classes can do inside of themselves, I encourage everyone to take note that PF2 was built to be extremely modular. I further encourage you to look at all of the options for your character. You don't have to compromise on your character concept.
That is one thing I love about PF2. It is so damn customizble for concepts. You can do a lot with the system.
Sure, it's mostly cosmetic rather than real power. But most people want to make some concept that looks in their mind's eye what they want it to look like and as long as it is competitive, they'll enjoy it. PF2 is very good for making a lot of very cool concepts that are balanced, but look great in the mind's eye.
Sure, it's mostly cosmetic rather than real power. But most people want to make some concept that looks in their mind's eye what they want it to look like and as long as it is competitive, they'll enjoy it. PF2 is very good for making a lot of very cool concepts that are balanced, but look great in...
I'd say it goes a bit beyond just cosmetic - while attaining power level difference is extremely difference, attaining stylistic difference between characters and how they play isn't super difficult.
Because of class features like Hunters Edge and Flurry of Blows, the sort of non Strike actions various classes take change a lot. Flurry of Blows, despite having nothing to do with movement, makes Monks more mobile because they have extra actions to spend on movement. That sort of thing.
That doesn't make Monks more powerful than their peers, but it does make them play tangibly and not just cosmetically differently.
That extends a lot across the game, in various areas with various abilities.
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Bards are one of the most powerful combat classes in the game with unmatched supporting abilities and a versatile occult spell list with additional versatility with Polymath.But they bore me to tears. Most of my rounds I spend Harmonizing and using two composition cantrips. That covers everything I need to do to let the martials hammer the bad guys. If a fight is particularly tough or enemies are set up for good AoE, I drop some hammer spells.
It's not an active enough play-style for me. The bard is easy mode caster whose composition actions are so good they are no brainers to use. Their best feats are obvious.
Very good class. If you can envision performing on a constant basis as mega-rockstar bard with power or classical power house, then it's the class for you. It's just too simple for my tastes.
For me, harmonize is a trap feat, especially since it doesn't work with lingering inspiration. It turns you into a boring buffer, while a bard can be so much more. Every turn you're using harmonize is a turn you're not casting.
It's true that harmonizing between Inspire Courage/Inspire Defense/Dirge of Doom is crazy powerful, but it's not the end-all be-all of bard strategy. I'd much rather use lingering inspiration on one cantrip then have my three actions to do something meaningful.
I posted on this board about a friend wanting to do a melee bard. We had two sessions these last few days and he was having a blast. He's probably not as optimized as your character was, but man is he having fun. He has way more things to do than actions and his rounds are all different - that's at low level, mind you.
He used Lingering composition on Inspire Courage, then moved and hit a mob with his longsword. Next round, he smashed a mob once then used color spray with some effect (three targets, one fail, two successes) . Next round, he went nova with a strike + electric arc that did great damage.
He doesn't plan on taking harmonize and nobody will fault him for that: the martials at the table are already extatic about the +1 bonus of Inspire Courage, and the casters are eagerly waiting his level 6 and Dirge of Doom.
I strongly believe RPGs are designed to have fun. If we don't have fun, then maybe we should adjust our playstyle without getting pigeonholed into a boring role. We expect our cleric to heal in case of emergency, but we also understand when he wants to cast Spiritual Weapon or some big AOE spell instead of a buff. Likewise, we expect our bard to give us some kind of buff, but nobody will cry if he uses a third level slot for something else than haste.
Anywho, I really like Monks. I feel like they deliver on the concept pretty well. Their mechanics are smooth, and when you see one in play next to another martial you can really see the difference in how they play. I think they have a lot of great options, especially now with the APG.
Runner-up is probably Druid. I think their focus spells are fun and let them do their thing all day. Lots of fun options, and the primal list is pretty nice.
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Rogues. This is the first time outside of a video game that I feel rogues have actually been on par with other classes. As it has always been my favorite class despite always being inferior, I am glad for the changes, especially with feats specifically for skills. I also feel like I have to be really engaged into fights and every single class feat is important and/or is a difficult choice. Just at first level, I am torn between every feat; at second, with all the different archetypes, I feel like there is an exponential growth in decisions that determine everything that I pick and how those choices influence my play style.
I've always loved rangers and monks lore wise but in dnd 5e they felt kind of undertuned and stuffed with too many ribbons. In p2e they work so much better for me. Monks feel fun from lvl one as opposed to having to wait until tier 3 to feel like badasses. Some people on here harp about the ranger being janky bc hunt prey feels like a leash on design and action economy (I'm not very much bothered by it personally) but the fact that a beast master ranger functions and isn't a boring and competitively disappointing build instantly rocketed it up the top for me. Melee beast master rangers is something I've wanted to play since I got into ttrpgs when 5e released, and Making my Orc greataxe precision ranger with Hyena pet is the most fun I've had with a character so far. Thorgall Morchoppa (Pappa Choppa) and his girl Shinzi are a scary duo.
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Draconic-bloodline sorcerer has always been my favorite class (going back to 3.0 when it was just plain “Sorcerer.”) And I think it’s finally done right in 2E - I finally get to do everything I want at least once in every combat. I’ll never outshine the party fighter with Dragon Claws, but I have a blast using them. I frequently spend an action Intimidating, and can’t wait to level up to take Bon Mot to really drop saving throws. At first I really missed the +1/damage die for a given energy type from 1E, but it actually cuts down the pick-your-dragon-type-for-pure-optimization feelings that previously existed.