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553 posts. Alias of KingOfAnything.


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QuidEst wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
1) Outer Entity means a creature from the Outer Planes.
I don't think so, actually- creatures from the Outer Planes are almost always tied to Religion, and "outer entity" is tied to Occultism.

Yeah, I read outer entity as a creature from the Dark Tapestry.


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Flurry rangers can get a lot out of the Elven Curve Blade and a switch-hitting build.


The spell winter bolt is also in contention for great magus focus spells. Either (1d8+1d12) per level or 1d8 per level and deny 1 or 2 enemy actions plus force provoke Attacks of Opportunity.


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If you post a good question, chances are someone else will make sure it is posted there.


Squiggit wrote:
Charon Onozuka wrote:

The big difference I see between the Magus and the playtest Kineticist is that Spellstrike is only part of the Magus kit (even if a standout part) while everything the Kineticist could do would provoke an AoO.

Thus a Magus could still contribute to an encounter while avoiding AoOs (even if their damage was lowered), while the Kineticist couldn't do anything (including gather power or their basic attack).

Don't really get this. A magus who doesn't want to get AoO'd can only really make regular strikes on a weak martial chassis with no combat enhancers. A playtest kineticist who doesn't want to get AoO'd is in the exact same boat.

A magus has a whole class feature for a damage boost and other combat benefits.


A magus going up against a creature with an AoO has to adjust their strategy, whereas a kineticist was simply shut down. The two are comparable, but not equivalent.


Squiggit wrote:
Saedar wrote:
A lot of work goes into making these modules completely separate from the adventures themselves. The people doing that should be properly compensated for their work. If that puts them outside your price point, that is unfortunate but better than stiffing the people doing the labor.
In fairness to the OP, it sounds like he would be willing to pay the price point for the module itself (or maybe even with more of a markup). It's that you have to buy the module and the PDF together that makes the price point so high.

That would result in stiffing Paizo for their share of the work, though, wouldn't it?


Yes tentacular limbs is exclusive to the aberrant sorcerer, currently.

Your reach values look correct, but remember that the extended reach only applies to touch spells.

Yes, you could grapple within your unarmed reach, but that is limited to the 10 foot reach base benefit.


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My page was corrupted. I am sad. :(


I got the email and tried to download the PDF, but the file had no data inside it.

I want to get on with the game!


Dubious Scholar wrote:
I think the biggest issue is that it doesn't offer enough over a normal shield. But give me 2h elemental blasts and that value increases a lot because you could earth shield while using blasts at high damage?

What more do you think is possible? It's already a free scaling shield with unlimited hit points.


Unicore wrote:
Now maybe the "action tax" feel of it is not fun, but that feels to me the exact same as having variable action impulses that do more damage with more actions, which I would rather see separated out into separate actions instead of singular activities with variable action costs.

It's like variable action abilities, but you can spend actions across your turns.


What would people think about a crit-negation ability tied to Con? Very in theme for the class channeling elements through their bodies.

Suggested Ability wrote:
Whenever an opponent would critically hit the kineticist, that creature must attempt a flat check with a DC equal to the kineticists Con modifier. On a failure, the attack becomes a normal hit


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You don't need to Command your familiar in exploration mode, just talking to it with message is sufficient to communicate your intentions. It is a sentient ball of elements afterall.


Errenor wrote:

Don't know where best to put it and not sure it deserves its own topic, but this bothers me a little:

evaluating the name of the IGNEOGENESIS feat I see that it should mean 'fire creation'. But the feat doesn't have anything to do with fire and even volcanoes really.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/igneo

If the rock you are moving is molten, the ability would be creating igneous rocks.


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Kineticist has the range to mostly Stride away. No need to spend actions getting closer to the enemy.


Kekkres wrote:
RexAliquid wrote:
How often are you walking around in a dangerous situation without your element drawn? A good opening salvo softens up the enemies for your single-target strikers.
i am assuming they walk in with their element gathered, the action tax still applies however in order to do anything the follow up turn, since almost every action the class has requires an existing gather.

Then you are double-counting the action tax and making things seem worse than they really are. Try to be more consistent on which action is paying the tax.


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Elemental Wisp familiar by level 2


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aobst128 wrote:
Thaago wrote:

Hrrrm, I'm seeing a lot of 'Chain Blast is good/amazing' going around, but I really don't think it is. I haven't done a rigorous analysis yet, but a quick look does not leave me impressed. On the one hand multiple MAPless attacks is great, but on the other hand any miss ending the chain is rough.

Its only going to be used vs multiple lower level enemies, so that helps, but even if the hit chance is all the way up to 75%, that means you only get to the 3rd attack 56% of the time.

All you need to make it better than a standard 2 blasts is to hit the first one. 2 actions for 2 targets without map is already good. Sucks when the chain breaks at the first attack though.

That is what hero points are for!


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Kekkres wrote:
RexAliquid wrote:
Angel Hunter D wrote:
So it does poor damage even with Earth and forces you to spread it out so it's worth even less, with punishing action economy. It's just not doing what was expected or desired.

If two characters in a party can do 75% of target hp in two actions, the second to act wastes 2/3rds of their potential.

If instead, one of those characters does 25% of target hp to three targets, the target still dies in one round, but next round the second target only takes one character to defeat.

the problem is, past the earliest level the damage output of a kineticist using 3 or 4 action impulse routines vs a martial using strike, strike third action is so incredibly lopsided that the chance you actually save your martials more then one action over the course of a battle is pretty slim[...]

so comparing against all given hp values your impulse has saved your barbarian one action 2/3 of the time, but dropped an enemy a round early only 1 third of the time. for FOUR ACTIONS you have a reasonably good chance to save one character one action and a less reliable chance to have dropped an enemy a turn early. and sure, that sounds pretty alright right?

How often are you walking around in a dangerous situation without your element drawn? A good opening salvo softens up the enemies for your single-target strikers.


Angel Hunter D wrote:
So it does poor damage even with Earth and forces you to spread it out so it's worth even less, with punishing action economy. It's just not doing what was expected or desired.

If two characters in a party can do 75% of target hp in two actions, the second to act wastes 2/3rds of their potential.

If instead, one of those characters does 25% of target hp to three targets, the target still dies in one round, but next round the second target only takes one character to defeat.


If the data shows that Stoke is an overwhelmingly popular choice, that is the kind of thing that might be worked into the class chassis.


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You can’t heal thd damage you take from the disease, but you can heal normally otherwise.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

The thing about "the Kineticist is about 2-4 damage low" sounds right to me since one of the strange things about the class is that almost everybody else gets to add a stat in some capacity to damage or gets some sort of damage bonus to their attacks (since they're weapons that usually add str or half strength to damage) or something that adds static damage (inventor's Overdrive; precision damage for Rangers, Swashbucklers, Investigators, etc.; even the Gunslinger's +1 combined with getting the most out of weapon spec.)

If you were to add a static modifier to kinetic blasts, you'd probably run into a problem with earth blasts being overtuned since they also get propulsive. But if you just added Con to blast damage (like cantrips) and replaced propulsive on Earth blasts with something else that's useful, I think that would work.

They have access to kinetic auras which can add flat damage to multiple creatures a round. They just aren’t tied to their Strike action.

At lower levels they require some coordination, but that’s pretty easy once you get it down.


When I am playing my magus and run into something with an attack of opportunity, I adapt my playstyle. Pull out an agile weapon, get my Arcane Cascade active with a shield spell and spend my focus points to quicken myself or add a damage type to my weapon.

Doing the same thing every round with no consequences isn't fun. I don't want my contribution to combat to be easily replaced by a Spellstrike robot.


The kineticist might not have flat damage boosters to their Blasts like a Thaumaturge or Barbarian or Inventor, but they do have a couple auras with flat damage every round to potentially multiple enemies. Probably all the enemies in a room by 8th, almost certainly by 12. A dedicated water kineticist can make anything within 30 ft have a really bad day.


If the Gather option of Adapt Element specified that it lost the manipulate trait, would that be worthwhile? Spending two actions to Gather and not provoke AoOs seems pretty worth it for a melee Kinetic Weapon user.


graystone wrote:
RexAliquid wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Flanking bonus on your attack would be a reason to go finesse melee blast.
But is Flexible Blast more valuable than taking Elemental Weapon with a finesse weapon?
Yes, because you aren't limited as far as range/melee with flexible but you are with elemental weapon.

Sure, but I think there are plenty of options to deal with a ranged enemy if you happen to have a sword out. Between moving into melee, using an Overflow ability, or simply re-Gathering it shouldn't be a big problem.


Earth has Spike Skin at level 8 that gives you or your ally resistance and return damage to your allies. That's basically a lesser paladin's reaction that doesn't take your reaction.

The Dust storm aura can move enemies away from your allies at the start of your turn. For one action, you could switch the aura to difficult terrain. That's a great set-up for a reach fighter, forcing the enemy to Stride and provoke the AoO or deal with the concealed condition. Just stock up on cat's eye elixirs for your party.


Xenocrat wrote:
Flanking bonus on your attack would be a reason to go finesse melee blast.

But is Flexible Blast more valuable than taking Elemental Weapon with a finesse weapon?


I do think that the power boost at 11th level could come a little earlier. Maybe 7th?


The dual gate Fusion Blast is the closest thing to what a higher level kineticist could do.


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egindar wrote:
I'm aware I'm responding to an older topic in the thread, but am I understanding that the main argument in favor of Aerial Boomerang's control potential is that you need 3 actions' worth of setup (2 actions for Fair Winds, another to re-Gather Element) for it first? That you spend one of the early rounds of combat (which are more important) doing nothing, not even moving?

Are you under the impression that using Fair Winds expends your element? None of the auras have the overflow trait. Round 1 is activate aura and Blast or move into position or Stoke. No need to Gather until you use Boomerang.


A gauntlet made of earth is a pretty cool image.


Ice is a rock, so...


Anyone else take and Elemental Wisp familiar on their dedicated gate kineticist? Only a +1 damage bump, but it applies to everything thing you do and doesn't cost actions.


I’m excited by the synergies and combinations possible with other party members.


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YuriP wrote:
RexAliquid wrote:
Forcing enemies to provoke from your allies is also very good.
I agree but it's unlikely. Because a Step is enough to get out of the way.

Which they can’t do in an aura of difficult terrain.


gesalt wrote:
RexAliquid wrote:
Verzen wrote:
Unicore wrote:
And the boomerang makes attacks on the second round as well.
Not counting those because look at the practicality of it. People will literally just move out of the way. They know it's coming so they'll move. In reality it's more like a, "I'm going to waste a few creatures 1st actions" so it acts as a slow to a couple creatures.
Forcing an enemy to take an action to move is very good. That is value.
It's less value when those enemies would already be moving to engage anyway.

If they have to avoid the most direct path and go through an aura of difficult terrain, that will end up costing them more than just the one action to move.

Forcing enemies to provoke from your allies is also very good.


Verzen wrote:
can you name…

Kineticist has a feat for an action-saving flurry. And more than one aura option to apply flat damage to nearby enemies.


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Verzen wrote:
Unicore wrote:
And the boomerang makes attacks on the second round as well.
Not counting those because look at the practicality of it. People will literally just move out of the way. They know it's coming so they'll move. In reality it's more like a, "I'm going to waste a few creatures 1st actions" so it acts as a slow to a couple creatures.

Forcing an enemy to take an action to move is very good. That is value.


Kineticists do get access to the Strike action from Elemental Weapon. A fighter MC Kineticist could Sudden Charge with a fiery pick from level 4.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Without having read the book I can't say that Illusions aren't part of the plane of Air (I would have thought water) but if they do the legwork elsewhere in the book I think it's valid. Like mechanics and thematics ought to reinforce each other and a book about the elements should suggest some ways to think about them that you might not have thought about.

The Evil Elemental Lord of Air does like her invisible stalkers.


If you're going into melee where you want the shield raised, you'll be making Strikes or Blasts, not area effects using overflow. If you have the space for an overflow ability, you are less likely to need the extra AC.


So, a kineticist who wants to flurry would have to take Kinetic Weapon and Monastic Weaponry on top of the dedication and Flurry feats. That is a lot, but it is doable.


Gather Amalgamation really pushes a universal gate kineticist toward picking up Overflow abilities from most if not each element. There isn't much room left for aura or utility feats, which makes Rapid Reattunement almost mandatory for universal gates. To be fair, you can build a kineticist to not take Gather Amalgamation and free yourself up a little more, but Amalgamation is very cool and right there.

Dedicated and dual gate kineticists have much more room for utility feats, or the Elemental Blast boosts (Cycling, Stoke, Barrage). They can focus on using Elemental Blast and treat Overflow abilities as situational abilities to take advantage of opportunities when they arise. I think you are much more likely to see an Aura, especially with Aura Shaping on a dedicated or dual gate kineticist. Universal just doesn't have the room.


tytalan wrote:
1) their damage is low and stoke element which only adds 2 or 4 to the damage has a action tax. 2) every AOE attack also has a built in action tax in the form of overwhelm. So 5 actions to do a AOE with +4 to damage vs 1 action to do a strike with 4+ damage bonus plus...

Did you miss that Stoke Element scales with level?


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Rules don’t have memory. Unless it is listed as a requirement, rules affect future actions.


Ryuujin-sama wrote:
Maybe I missed something but Stoke Element just seems bad. You spend a turn doing no Impulses at all, unless the wording means you just can't do one after you use Stoke Element but could still do one before it, and then an action to do a small status bonus to damage. The damage does scale but it is at best equivalent to a damage boosting class feature, except you have to use the action each time you want the damage boost instead of once per target or something.

Stoke Element's bonus damage does apply to all creatures in an area blast. It's not something I would use to boost a regular Blast unless I had no other actions in mind.


Squiggit wrote:
RexAliquid wrote:
What kinds of action economy boosts are dual and omni getting?
Level 6 feat for Dual or Omni lets you Gather/Blast for one action as long as you're using two different elements to do it.

That has the impulse trait though, so it is not an action saver vs a dedicated kineticist. It just removes the penalty for going dual or omni.

Gather Amalgamation is neat, but pretty restrictive, as well.

I don't think dedicated is lagging behind all that much.

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