| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I will just give some random ideas.
A class that gains "spell slots/focus/abilities" by attacking. The character would have to spend the beginning of combat just gaining points and use all the resources for big flashy attacks since they wouldn't carry over to the next combat. Many video games use mechanics like this and I think it could fit in Pathfinder 2e.
I would love a magic class not based around spell slots. Thematically it could be anything but doesn't necessarily have to be the Kineticist.
Just wanted to chime in and say how much I like this post. I personally dislike x/day feats and abilities, I hate feeling useless after using them and whining about having to rest. But being able to do things willy nilly is also unfair or they'd have to be really weak. Something you can earn BY fighting is really cool, since if a fight goes by super fast you wouldn't be super useful but you'd always have a fighting chance. Makes me think of panache/grit in pf1.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The playtest swashbuckler gives me hope they might head in that direction. And while I didn't come up with it, another during the playtest mentioned a combo point mechanic to what you describe might make sense for the investigator, possibly capped by the investigator's int score (to give them another reason to max it).
That said... a vast majority of these features seem to be relatively simple proficiency advancements so yeah, I'm also kinda curious how these are going to work exactly. Also with the usual Archetype Feat Limitations... I'm hoping that it's not gonna cost class feats to change these things out (except maybe the initial Dedication feat, but even that I'm hoping will also introduce something in its own right if you even have to take one) but that just brings into question just how the whole thing's gonna work.
Exactly! I'm trying to figure out what one would DO with a class archetype. To me, an ideal class archetype would be something that changed enough that the feel of the class is different, but not so much that most of the CRB class feats as written are nonfunctional.
I'd like to see an unreliable yet viable magic class, whether a charlatan, accursed, or wild mage. I don't want something that will potentially break the PF2 rule system, but just a chaotic magic (or hybrid) class that party members won't hate. Such a class admittedly is a difficult achievement and perhaps impossible. Players strongly dislike unpredictable performance levels for their characters
Perhaps the Oracle is as good as it gets
Either a mobile skirmisher class that works better than the Rogue or Swashbuckler did (Good ideas, never really seemed to fit the concept well enough for me) Or an adaption of the 4e Warlord, which I've felt the absent of in 4e games a lot. And no I haven't really checked out the playtest Swashbuckler yet.
Do check it out Playtest swashbuckler was the best class in it. Also it was all about moving.
I've got high hopes since AOO became a thing that got gated off, might be the one benefit to that change IMO. I did always think Swashbuckler and Rogue should have been merged (Obviously the combo wouldn't be as good as both combined) back in 1e because they felt so similar in concept, I've always thought of Swashbuckler as a branch-off from Rogue. Hoping the difference is more defined this time.
Playtest swashbuckler did a really good job of standing out. It has a whole mechanic around using finishing moves that was really engaging. I liked it a lot (though also maybe a little sad because that could have been a cool general mechanic).
Playtest Investigator on the other hand really was just a slightly different rogue. Really hoping the final version of that class has an entirely new combat mechanic, because giving it something so close to sneak attack did no favors to the class in terms of making it feel unique.
Playtest swashbuckler did a really good job of standing out. It has a whole mechanic around using finishing moves that was really engaging. I liked it a lot (though also maybe a little sad because that could have been a cool general mechanic).
Playtest Investigator on the other hand really was just a slightly different rogue. Really hoping the final version of that class has an entirely new combat mechanic, because giving it something so close to sneak attack did no favors to the class in terms of making it feel unique.
Ahck, yeah investigator is another class I never really got a solid sense of identity for, that one really felt like just a smash up of Alchemist and Skill Monkey Rogue. Of all the skill monkey classes it was always the one I noticed last.
I never saw Swashbuckler as a branch of Rogue, and their concepts were pretty different to me. But you will definitely see that they are different now.
anyways probably not the best thread to discuss about Swashbuckler.
*******************
Another potential new class is an Acrobat like class. Not something like Swashbuckler or Monk that just move a lot. But something like a combination of a Bard with a Swashbuckler, giving/getting buffs based on movement, and then dealing damage not through big hit but many tiny ones that just keep building up.
Very much death by a thousand cuts.
Maybe it's just me. Light Armor, Light blades, focus on Dexterity with a probable minor into Charisma, acrobatics. Swashbuckler certainly had differences, but I still always felt like Swashbuckler was like a very big archetype, in concept, not in mechanics. An Acrobat class....not sure if I'd want that as an archetye or class. I'd like a Warlord first personally.
Playtest swashbuckler did a really good job of standing out.
Yes, it was by far the best and closest to feeling finished. Investigator had some good ideas but seemed like some rackets for a rogue. Witch seemed kind of like they took a bunch of ideas, threw them at a wall and looked to see what stuck: add explosive spellbook familiars. Oracle... Well I liked the name... Not much else good to say.
Ah I'm a fan of Ol' Witch, I hope it all works out. Oracle really ended up that badly off?
One of the Oracle's big gimmicks in the playtest was that you amplified your curse by casting focus spells, giving you curse penalties and benefits.
The numbers weren't tuned super great though and a lot of the focus spells weren't very good, so the class ended up feeling in a lot of ways just like a worse sorcerer, although it could do a few cool things.
Witch was okay, but sort of suffered from the saminess problem too. Playtest Witch was in many ways just a Wizard with diferent focus spells.
I mean, I'll be the first to admit Witch was in a lot of ways a Wizard variant with a unique class feature slapped on, a slightly more favorable (probably not better) spell list. So if it's even more samey this time around that isn't good. I'll take a look at this playtest tomorrow.
But keeping on theme for the topic, I'd also like to see a class that actually does go for a more defender style role (Yes, I'm stealing the forbidden 4e ideas). Less offensively capable than Barbarian/Fighter, more capable defensively, and some way to draw enemy attacks.
I feel like in general nonmagical combatants that focus on things other than raw damage is an underexplored niche. Rogues can do a little bit of debuffing with their debilitations, but I'd like to see a lot more of that in the future. Including, yeah, tanking, battlefield control, party support and all that other good stuff.
One of the Oracle's big gimmicks in the playtest was that you amplified your curse by casting focus spells, giving you curse penalties and benefits.
The numbers weren't tuned super great though and a lot of the focus spells weren't very good, so the class ended up feeling in a lot of ways just like a worse sorcerer, although it could do a few cool things.
LOL The numbers where pretty crippling and worse, it infected ALL your focus spells so even if you had access to wizard or monk focus spells they too activated and amplified your curse. The only way I found to play the class was to completely ignore the focus spells and just use it as a base to multiclass into other classes like bard and sorcerer: playing it as a class with 3 spell lists [divine, arcane and occult] and no focus spells ever was far more interesting and palatable than running the base class by itself.
Witch was okay, but sort of suffered from the saminess problem too. Playtest Witch was in many ways just a Wizard with diferent focus spells.
Yeah, that is one way to put it. lessons where pretty close to bloodlines: not sure what the point of cackle even was though as saying it was niche seems like a massive understatement and hexes as focus spells just further played into the sameiness.
I want a sort of Gilgamesh/EMIYA type class that can just pull a knife out of a hat and stab ya with it, then make it go *poof* and be unarmed again. The Mindblade Magus did this the closest in PF1, but I think a full class based around conjuration magic not being used to summon pets is fun and interesting.
Echoing the idea of a trinket master, that sounds super fun and quirky, I can totally see a gnome or goblin just hauling a big ol' bag of scrap and pulling bits out and just slapping some pieces together and handing it to the Fighter like "Here! Stick this on yer sword and go stab a hoe!"
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd like to see an unreliable yet viable magic class, whether a charlatan, accursed, or wild mage.
I'm definitely in the market for some sort of "primal magic" class where your schtick involves rolling on tables. The "Chaos Mage" is far and away my favorite 13A class.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd like to see an unreliable yet viable magic class, whether a charlatan, accursed, or wild mage.I'm definitely in the market for some sort of "primal magic" class where your schtick involves rolling on tables. The "Chaos Mage" is far and away my favorite 13A class.
Your reference of primal magic here just gave me a flash of a Wild Mage Sorcerer Bloodline where on top of the Bloodline stuff just being based around Wild/Chaos Magic you would actually wind up picking your Bloodline's Tradition with a d4.
I want a sort of Gilgamesh/EMIYA type class that can just pull a knife out of a hat and stab ya with it, then make it go *poof* and be unarmed again. The Mindblade Magus did this the closest in PF1, but I think a full class based around conjuration magic not being used to summon pets is fun and interesting.
Echoing the idea of a trinket master, that sounds super fun and quirky, I can totally see a gnome or goblin just hauling a big ol' bag of scrap and pulling bits out and just slapping some pieces together and handing it to the Fighter like "Here! Stick this on yer sword and go stab a hoe!"
I really, really want something like mindblade or gloomblade, but I would also like it as an archetype so you do it as a ranger/rogue/barb whatever. I would personally be pretty sad if only a single class could summon a weapon
I'd like to see an unreliable yet viable magic class, whether a charlatan, accursed, or wild mage.I'm definitely in the market for some sort of "primal magic" class where your schtick involves rolling on tables. The "Chaos Mage" is far and away my favorite 13A class.
Don't make it like the 5e version and I'd be behind this.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I want a sort of Gilgamesh/EMIYA type class that can just pull a knife out of a hat and stab ya with it
Only if later on we get some gate of babylon BS so you can make ranged attacks with summoned greatswords.
- A bender class. You can tell me that Kinetecist was kind of that, but not really no. Not enough. I want an hybrid monk/kinetiecist martial elemental classe, not a Monk with a few elemental strikes or a Kinetecist who can flurry sometimes, but a true full fledged avatar bender.
- A Dragon class. Either to play a Dragon, the monster, or a true Dragon Rider. You start at one with a young drake, and you go full adult dragon at 20.
- An Harrow Class. Like the early Medium. A complex, tactic, harrow classe you can play like a Medium from a Vampire Novel, or like Gambit from the X-Men, choose your « Major Card » and pick a card, any card.
- A kill it, eat it or wear it, become it kind of class. The trophy big game hunter one. Kinda like a mix between a Ranger, a Shifter and Boba Fett. Where you try to kill and use what you kill to do amazing things, like an armor in Monster Hunter, or a power or spell that the type of creature were able to use, or the knowledges of your prey.
+1 on those.
"- An Harrow Class."
I would also like optional rules for using a deck of (harrow?) cards with it.
I also want a "build your spell" class (word casting, but done better).
|
Having said that. A class that is actually based around armor would be awesome.
Sounds like Arcana Unearthed's Warmain, or a class I saw from the Scarred Lands called the Juggernaut, that was based around super-heavy armor, and ramming people with it's bulk, as much as using weapons... Neat!
Imagine a class based around trying to snipe body parts for benefits (pretty much like Monster Hunter).
I had a notion for a warrior enemy who worked sort of like the Green Ronin 'Demonican' class (which stole various fiendish powers from bound fiends), that drew power from various creatures he'd killed, and whose body parts he wore as a grisly sort of talisman. He only got full armor / weapon value from armor and weapons made from creature parts, counting as not fully proficient with manufactured weapons and armor, so was clad in bits of scaly dragonhide and bullete carapace, and used weapons made from claws and fangs and a polearm tipped with a giant crab claw.
That could be funky, both from a 'steal critter powers' standpoint (getting to tap from these talismans to channel a 'monster power', perhaps one time only, ruining the talisman?), and also from a more generic 'derives strength from his trophies' stance in that he gets some sort of buff from the stolen life-force in his gory fetish-wear (extra temporary hit points, perhaps?).
I really love the trope of getting power/knowledge from a possessing/bound entity, so a class or even archetype that provides mechanics for that would be awesome. Just something that allows you to boost/add to/modify spellcasting or maybe proficiency in exchange for maybe some sort of anathema or will save requirement would be super cool (bargaining with or forcing the entity possessing you to help you or teach you or something).
The closest thing PF1 had to this was the Fiend Keeper medium (which incidentally was my favorite archetype).
Perhaps the final version of the witch might be able to fulfil this role though.
|
I really enjoyed the flexibility of the Brawler in 1E. Maybe a fighty class that gets to use martial flexibility not to gain feats, but gain different reactions. Or something like Gau from FFIII that can study creatures and use their special abilities. Like the character spends an interact action studying a Vrock, and then the next round can use Dance of Ruin. If the character spends downtime units, he or she can add the special ability to a list of ones they know. Maybe this list can be capped based on the wisdom modifier + proficiency or intelligence modifier + proficiency.
Thoughts?
Gaining new reactions would be best done via flexible feats, imo. The way the system is set up just works better for that.
I think the Blue Mage class can be done *eventually* but we’re not there yet. But yeah, given how damage and conditions can be scaled to match the characters level, I see no reason something like that can’t happen down the road. I could even see it attached to the shifter or something very like it.
Best to have a process where you just learn basic abilities not encountered in the wild, to give the class an assumed baseline to start with.
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Classes I would like to see:
Some kind of "proper" monster training Class that could function based on different "Class Paths" such as one for Dragons/Drakes/Wyverns, one for Monstrous Humanoid buddies, and another for Beasts. Something that goes a step beyond what is done for Animal Companions and Familiars and offers a more varied way to customize your Minion beyond making Class Feat selections every 4ish levels.
A "Dragoon" type Class that emulates these types of Characters from Final Fantasy games. Medium to Heavy Armor wearing acrobats wielding reach weapons who use raw strength to jump 15-150 feet in the air before landing for massive damage as a unique Flourish type attack. Give them speed bonuses and cool mobility/dodge functions along with some Focus Spells and unique Reactions to flesh it out. I've been waiting for a good Dragoon for years.
An artificer type class which is unnaturally talented at crafting items of exception quality without being an actual spellcaster. I'm talking about a blacksmith type PC who through sheer talent and devotion is able to craft Runes of ALL types without the need for Feats or magical-whatnot onto weapons, armor, shields, and even talisman they create. Give them Master proficiency in Medium Armor and weaponry of all types plus free access to ONE Advanced/Uncommon weapon right out of the gate and the ability to designate a Weapon or Armor similar to how a Champion does to boost it beyond its normal limits. GUNSLINGER would make a fantastic artificer "Class-Path" if you ask me.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I really love the trope of getting power/knowledge from a possessing/bound entity, so a class or even archetype that provides mechanics for that would be awesome. Just something that allows you to boost/add to/modify spellcasting or maybe proficiency in exchange for maybe some sort of anathema or will save requirement would be super cool (bargaining with or forcing the entity possessing you to help you or teach you or something).
I'd like to see a version of the Binder or Medium that tapped into the voudon-inspired notion of channeling gods or spirits to gain appropriate powers (and an appropriate personality shift), so calling upon Pharasma before heading into an undead-heavy encounter and becoming 'filled with the spirit of the Lady of Graves' and gaining appropriate undead-killing powers (and being filled with a righteous hatred of undead!).
Where both the Binder and Medium fell down for me is that they kind of invented 'spirits' to bind/channel, and didn't tie into the setting as much. Being able to channel more setting-relevant entities like Asmodeus or Desna or Irori could be way more thematic and evokative, IMO, than nameless ideals or archetypes (or 'vestiges').
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Something like the Binder would be really neat. Medium covered some of that niche, but the Binder was a lot more flexible with it in a way that's really neat.
One thing I really liked in PF1 were the flavor behind the Medium's Legendary Spirits, where gaining there power was sort of a matter of interacting with the world and seeking that power out. Alternatively, the flavor of the haunt collector occultist, where you drew power from magical relics that either contained or were imprinted upon by spirits.
Alternatively, the black blade magus (or hexblade warlock in 5e), to a lesser extent. Similar concept although I'm not as big on the specific flavor.
Basically I really like the idea of a class that draws power from otherworldly entities and sources, but does so in a way that makes the connection more personal and less abstract than it does for the Witch or Cleric.
I would really like to see the Gunslinger making a comeback
There's a big giant creature flying around with scales as hard as steel that breathes fire and can lift itself on wings. If some groups want guns to try and deal with this strange thing known as a dragon, I see no reason why not.
More seriously I get why some people don't like Gunslingers, but I don't see the inclusion of the option as necessarily a reason for why you can't just ban them from your group if you really want to. It's not like they were immensely powerful from the builds I saw, and I'm not sure that the gun-using elements of Golarion have been retconned out.
Guns are specifically mentioned in the Lost Omens World Guide, so no, not retconned.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've *always* been of the opinion that there shouldn't be a class based around one specific weapon type. If guns are a thing, anyone should be able to pick them up with the right training, like a sword or a bow.
"Gunslinger" might have its own flavor that makes it worth its own class, but I haven't really been able to determine what that is.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
As I slowly try to understand the system better, I read up on the {Fortune} tag. I wouldn't mind seeing a class built around it; something that could build up luck over the course of a fight or exploration, using good luck for themselves and offloading bad luck onto their enemies. A level 7 or 11 ability could be to gain (or inflict) an additional {Fortune} affect onto the same roll if you choose. Naturally the class feats would be either {Fortune} effects or focus spells that granted the abilities.
Aaand I just reconceptialized the Grit system from PF1, didn't I?
Basically yes, you just reconceptialized the grit/panache/luck system in PF1.
But then Halflings could also have done what you described if they got some feats.
In fairness, I started thinking about it in terms of an ancestral paragon Halfling archetype. But as my ideas fit classes tend to be “Nice rule there, I would like to break it” it sort of wandered from there.
I really like mystical warrior archetypes, but I think multiclassing for magic has a lot of baggage and while it's a cool class, monks have really specific flavor that doesn't always mesh with certain concepts.
I'd like to see something maybe in the vein of 3.5's Crusader, where it leans heavily into the magically-empowered warrior archetype without having the tightly regulated flavor that the monk or champion have. It sounds really specific, but the class fit this oddly vacant niche as a sort of non-aligned paladin or monk that could use weapons and armor that opened up a lot of concepts.
This could, admittedly, probably be accomplished by a broad enough base of class feats for the Fighter or Ranger, but I'm not sure Paizo would be really interested in giving Fighters that kind of content (and multiclassing for it tends to be slow).
Maybe all I'm really asking for though are more options for more mundane classes to interact with the world in exciting and interesting ways. While they aren't all perfect, I think Paizo did a really good job with monk feats in terms of giving players new opportunities and I'd like to see other classes get similar options (not cribbing ideas from the monk, just a similar mindset behind their design).
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I really like mystical warrior archetypes, but I think multiclassing for magic has a lot of baggage and while it's a cool class, monks have really specific flavor that doesn't always mesh with certain concepts.
I'd like to see something maybe in the vein of 3.5's Crusader, where it leans heavily into the magically-empowered warrior archetype without having the tightly regulated flavor that the monk or champion have. It sounds really specific, but the class fit this oddly vacant niche as a sort of non-aligned paladin or monk that could use weapons and armor that opened up a lot of concepts.
This could, admittedly, probably be accomplished by a broad enough base of class feats for the Fighter or Ranger, but I'm not sure Paizo would be really interested in giving Fighters that kind of content (and multiclassing for it tends to be slow).
Maybe all I'm really asking for though are more options for more mundane classes to interact with the world in exciting and interesting ways. While they aren't all perfect, I think Paizo did a really good job with monk feats in terms of giving players new opportunities and I'd like to see other classes get similar options (not cribbing ideas from the monk, just a similar mindset behind their design).
Kinda why I really want to do the "Free Archetype" Variant with my group, and let the players decide what to take, once we have enough the generic archetypes from the APG.
It almost feels like an intentional thing where "archetype feats" were a thing you were meant to get alongside class feats/ancestry feats/skill feats. As a prestige classing system ala 4e's themes/paragon paths/epic destinies. It'd also really help 'harder' multiclass builds like the Mystical Warrior type thing you're discussing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Going off of Squiggit's comment in the returning classes thread about what aspects of the Cavalier likely won't be part of the archetype, I'd love to see a class or archetype with a focus on nonmagical party-wide buffs and being a tactician.
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I really want to see a martial leader-type with the ability to give other characters bonuses. This seems very doable in the current system building off of an action that works ala Inspire Courage, plus tactician style movement options and the like (ala Liberator Champions). I definitely agree that combining this with some of the Order stuff from PF1 Cavalier sounds neat for a martial commander.
In the thread on PF1 Classes being converted someone mentioned the idea of a 'Drifter' Class doing the 'western movie hero' (or 'wandering samurai', since those are very similar) tropes ala 'The Man with No Name', but without necessarily having guns. I think that's a great idea, and a much more fun Class chassis to add a Gunslinger option or Archetype to than a 'Marksman'. Stuff for being extra intimidating, appearing out of nowhere, identity protection, being tougher than they look, and possibly baseline level access to Advanced weapons, definitely seem like something you could make a Class out of if you wanted.
I'm also really interested in what they're gonna do for a new Spontaneous Arcane caster, since Sorcerer no longer owns that design space. I dunno what it'll be but I'm excited to find out. I have a good idea of what a lot of the other 'missing' spellcaster combos will be, but I'm just lost on this one.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I really want to see a martial leader-type with the ability to give other characters bonuses. This seems very doable in the current system building off of an action that works ala Inspire Courage, plus tactician style movement options and the like (ala Liberator Champions). I definitely agree that combining this with some of the Order stuff from PF1 Cavalier sounds neat for a martial commander.
Yeah, this sounds like a fun option. Some of the options of a bard, without the magic or singing/performance, more tactical stuff like being able to spend an action to give allies an extra action, or a significant bonus to a certain type of action.