I rolled low...what should I make?


Advice

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So our group started up another adventure, and we got to roll stats of 4d6, no rerolls. I got 7, 7, 10, 10, 10, 10. Amazing right? Well I chose to keep them and am now wondering what would be funny to play. This is not a character I could take seriously and it definitely might not be a caster (barring Race changing that) so I'd LOVE to hear some interesting ideas.

Available Races: Core Book, Aasimars, Changelings, Dhampirs, Drow, Goblins, and Tieflings

Silver Crusade

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Don't mind me, I'm just here waiting for those who say that rolling stats makes sense and for future reference.

But since I'm here, mhhh dunno, an alchemist throwing bombs in melee?


You probably shouldn't have kept those rolls and are actually entitled to re-roll if you are following the actual book guidelines. However, you chose to keep them. Let's see what we can do...

Hmm, ok, I've got something.

Goblin (for the +4 Dex)
Rogue (Unchained/Sylvan Trickster) 16
Barbarian (Urban) 2
Alchemist (Vivisectionist) 2

You will using Dexterity for hitting (and damage at rogue lvl 4) and using the Rage and Mutatgen to boost your dex (or other stats) when needed to compensate for your lower stats. Pick up a few Rogue talents: Hexes that don't rely on saving throws to provide bonuses or interesting tricks when you don't actually need another rogue talent. Eventually, take the Animal SKin major hex with a major rogue talent to shape shift into something that provides better stat bonuses, and go to town with multiple limb sneak attacks while flanking.

Silver Crusade

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Be merciful to yourself, put a 7 in Con, and play a melee focused Transmutation specializing elven wizard. Die quickly, and hope for better rolls on the new character.


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Those stats make for a decent chained summoner. Won’t be able to cast much before you can afford a headband tho.


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The first thing that comes to mind is you could play a commoner. Take the trait rough and ready and run around attacking enemies with things like brooms and pitchforks.

Personally, I think it would get stale pretty quick both for you and your group as your character would basically BE the annoying tag along npc that the group is ready to offload at their earliest convenience since they put a drain on the group's resources while contributing very little. As far as class goes for a character like that rogue and fighter are probably the most forgiving since they don't have core abilities that are directly based on a particular stat.

Looking over my own notes for character concepts I do see two other possibilities.

One is to play as a fighter with the Eldritch Guardian archetype. This gives you a familiar that advances with you as you level and shares all of your combat feats with it. Then you give the familiar Egotist archetype. This effectively makes the familiar your character and the fighter your "henchmen". You could play it off that you are a great warrior who has been "cursed" with your present form. The fighter was one of your worst students and you're trying to find a way to restore yourself.

The effectiveness of such a character is questionable but it's probably an upgrade.

The one other build that could work would be a non-caster "pet" build. The build assumes that the character would be going into melee with his animal companions but you don't have to and you might not want to since they will be better then your character when it comes to combat.

Beast Knight (Oracle/Hunter/Cavalier/Inquisitor)

Spoiler:

Inquisitor with several powerful animals
Key concepts: An inquisitor with two powerful beasts
Race: Human
Racial Traits: Eye for Quality
Class: Oracle (4), Cavalier (1), Inquisitor (3), Hunter (1), Mammoth Rider(1), Cavalier (3), Inquisitor (X)
Archetype(s): Packmaster (Hunter), Mother’s Fang (Cavalier), Sacred Huntsmaster (Inquisitor)
Mystery: Nature or Lunar
Revelations: Nature: Nature’s Whispers (1st), Natural Divination (3rd), Bonded Mount (5th)
Lunar: Prophetic Armor (1st), Eye of the Moon(3rd), Primal Companion (5th)
Key Curse: Lycanthropy (wolves)
Domain: Chivalry Inquisition
Key Feats: Nature Soul (1st), Animal Ally (4th), Extra Revelation(5th), Racial Heritage(Assimar)(7th), Celestial Servant(9th), Horse Master(13th),
Bonus Feats: Combat Expertise (Cavalier), Butterfly’s sting (Cavalier)
Bonus Teamwork Feats: Precise Strike[Cavalier](5th), Pack Flanking[Inquisitor](9th), Coordinated Charge [Inquisitor](12th)
Suggested Teamwork Feat: Bonded Mind, Duck and Cover, Pack Attack, Seize the Moment, Tribe Mentality
Concept: this build gives you multiple sources of animal companion levels which you can split amongst multiple companions via the Packmaster archetype. Since an animal companion is allowed to have a number of HD equal to your character level plus one very quickly you'll have 2 animal companions that have more HD then you do. Alternatively by 12th level you can have 3 animal companions at full progression and will be ready to gain your 4th one.

Beast Knight (Hunter/Cavalier/Inquisitor) version 2 [Requires DM permission]

Spoiler:

Inquisitor with several powerful animals
Key concepts: An inquisitor with two powerful beasts
Race: Human
Racial Traits: Eye for Quality
Class: Cavalier (4), Hunter (1), Inquisitor (4), Mammoth Rider(1), Inquisitor (X)
Archetype(s): Packmaster (Hunter), Mother’s Fang (Cavalier), Sacred Huntsmaster (Inquisitor)
Domain: Chivalry Inquisition
Key Feats: Exotic Heritage [K. Nature] (1st), Eldritch Heritage[Sylvan] (3rd), Horse Master(5th), Racial Heritage(Assimar)(7th), Celestial Servant(9th), Boon Companion(11th), Boon Companion(13th)
Bonus Feats: Combat Expertise (Cavalier), Butterfly’s sting (Cavalier)
Bonus Teamwork Feat: Precise Strike[Cavalier](1st), Pack Flanking[Inquisitor](8th), Coordinated Charge [Inquisitor](12th)
Suggested Teamwork Feat: Bonded Mind, Duck and Cover, Pack Attack, Seize the Moment, Tribe Mentality
Concept: This is the same build as the previous one but it makes use of Eldritch heritage in a way that while technically legal by the RAW, is a very clear bending of the rules to your advantage and so you'll want to get DM approval first. On the plus side you drop the oracle levels completely and start first level with an animal companion. The downside is that in the long run the animal companion granted by eldritch heritage is weaker then the one gained via animal ally since the EH is character level minus 5 and AA is character level minus 3.

Grand Lodge

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My go-to bad stat builds are:

An evangelist cleric with the animal domain.

Any summoning build spell with focus conjuration, sacred summoning, and augmented summoning.

Support druid: animal companion + summon + buffs.

Bard put everything thing into support, boost inspire courage as much as possible, take lingering performance. Use the finale spell to support the group.

1 level of dual-cursed oracle all others witch doctor shaman. Two channel pools to use Fateful Channel with. Evil eye chant gets around saves. Forutune (both hex and revelation help allies).

Use race + age to improves your casting stat and focus on spells with no saves or utility in the absence of saves.


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@LordKailas That's pretty dang neat I have to admit.


I'd be looking at support bard, along with working toward the dazzling display feat.

Reasons: Inspire Courage is always welcome, and doesn't depend on your stats (except # of rounds, and you can work toward fixing that with extra performance feat.)

Starting with a 12 CHR means you will have the attribute to cast 6th level spells even without a headband by level 16. Support build means you don't care about DCs.

Dazzling Display can be an effective debuff with no resource investment other than the feats to get it itself (and the prereq isn't a horrible one anyway.) Skill focus in Intimidate (or more likely perform via versatile performance) could compensate for low CHR bonus to skill if you felt you needed it. It gives you useful to do every round (and being crap at fighting, but spinning your sword in a scary manner at least has a lot of fun flavor.)

Beyond that, I'd make sure I had plenty of consumables for emergency condition removal (potions and scrolls, some via UMD) and actively look for where things like aid another or flanking partners are going to make a difference.

I would think about Duetist for a familiar with mauler archetype, with a small race this gives you a fairly good mount and you can use the increased mobility to good effect (being able to move and do a full round dazzling display makes quite a difference). Plus the familiar can help you carry your stuff.


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make a group that uses point buy?


If you actually want to attack things in combat, maybe gunslinger (1)/Paladin (x)? Smite evil with touch attack should be doable/reliable for the big bad guys. Could Virtuous Bravo to get sustainable (albeit not good) damage against weaker guys.


To the people not even making useful suggestions: I have a second set of MUCH better stats rolled up, but I figured instead of taking the 18, 18, 14, 13, 13, 13, I wanted to be a little different after all the years of playing seriously. Yes I know this character probably has a death wish, no I don't care. the goal is to have fun, not "win".

@Lelomenia: Gunslinger does seem like a viable option, especially with a Goblin with +4 Dex in a 10 stat.

@Dave Justus: I thought about a bard as it wasn't entirely stat reliant for abilities unless spell related, but even then a 6 tier caster would probably be better with a stat boost item and a 12 or 14 in the casting stat. Gnome, Aasimar, Tiefling, come to my mind.

So far Gunslinger seems like the best non-melee best bet or a Ranged Fighter or some sort.

As for a caster, since my physical will be poor anyways, I was thinking of being Middle-Aged for -1 Physicals, +1 Mentals and getting a bit more edge out of it.


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Quote:
To the people not even making useful suggestions: I have a second set of MUCH better stats rolled up, but I figured instead of taking the 18, 18, 14, 13, 13, 13, I wanted to be a little different after all the years of playing seriously. Yes I know this character probably has a death wish, no I don't care. the goal is to have fun, not "win".

to be fair, I'd suggest playing point buy with rolls like that too. playing point buy has nothing to do with winning and losing, it has to do with making a character who can actually do the job they set out to do. and if you dislike that, you could always just play with all 8s anyways, no ones stopping you *shrug*


Weables wrote:
Quote:
To the people not even making useful suggestions: I have a second set of MUCH better stats rolled up, but I figured instead of taking the 18, 18, 14, 13, 13, 13, I wanted to be a little different after all the years of playing seriously. Yes I know this character probably has a death wish, no I don't care. the goal is to have fun, not "win".
to be fair, I'd suggest playing point buy with rolls like that too. playing point buy has nothing to do with winning and losing, it has to do with making a character who can actually do the job they set out to do. and if you dislike that, you could always just play with all 8s anyways, no ones stopping you *shrug*

This adventure we went with 2 sets of 4d6 and applied them. My 1st rolls were great and my 2nd roll was garbage. I kept both for different characters and decided to play the worst one first. D&D and Pathfinder is about having an adventure and having fun. Everything else along the way is simply additional fun.

Liberty's Edge

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Whoa. The first set of stats is one reason I prefer oiint-buy. Your second set of stats is the other reason I prefer point-buy.

With the low set, I would build a human hunter. I would put the +2 and level stat bumps into WIS.

Your pet will be pretty beefy - especially with Animal Aspect - andyou will also be able to buff yourself a bit.

Since the hunter is a 6-level caster, you won't need 13 WIS for casting until level 7. You can focus on buffing and utility spells so the low save DC won't be too much an issue

Anyway, that's my tuppence.


Theconiel wrote:

Whoa. The first set of stats is one reason I prefer oiint-buy. Your second set of stats is the other reason I prefer point-buy.

With the low set, I would build a human hunter. I would put the +2 and level stat bumps into WIS.

Your pet will be pretty beefy - especially with Animal Aspect - andyou will also be able to buff yourself a bit.

Since the hunter is a 6-level caster, you won't need 13 WIS for casting until level 7. You can focus on buffing and utility spells so the low save DC won't be too much an issue

Anyway, that's my tuppence.

Doesn't sound too bad either.

Liberty's Edge

Aargh! Hit "Cancel" instead of "Submit"!
Let's try that again, shall we?

With the low stats I would play a human (or half-elf or dwarf) hunter. Your pet will be pretty beefy, plus you can buff it (and yourself, to a lesser extent) with Animal Aspect.

Since the hunter is a 6-level caster, you wouldn't really need a wisdom score of 13 until 7th level. You could focus on buffing and utility spells, so the low save isn't too much an issue.

Human stats:
STR: 10
DEX: 10
CON: 10
INT: 7
WIS: 12
CHA: 7

Feats: Toughness, ? (I can't come up with another right now, maybe Skill Focus in Perception?).

Since you are not playing PFS, you could take crafting feats along the way.

Liberty's Edge

Huh? First post appeared.


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I once rolled really poorly for a 3.5e game, so to protest I made a halfling cook.

Expert/Survivor/Exemplar

He was tough to kill and could cook up almost anything. The best part was that no one believed me when I said, "oh, he's just a cook".

Silver Crusade

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Halfling Summoner.


A half elf sythisist summoner would be pretty boss with those stats.


Wow, those are bismal stats. But I would also not roll with the second set.

If I rolled those I would make a Halfling Bard, and stand back and do a more support roll.

Bard stats id go:
7/5
10/12
10
7
10
10/12

Use a halfling sling, and sing.


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Quote:
So our group started up another adventure, and we got to roll stats of 4d6, no rerolls
Yeeg....
Gray Warden wrote:
Don't mind me, I'm just here waiting for those who say that rolling stats makes sense and for future reference.
Hear, hear. That poor schmuck could level to 40th and still have a stat array lower than half the people at his table are at 1st level.
Quote:
But since I'm here, mhhh dunno, an alchemist throwing bombs in melee?

IMO this is the perfect occasion to pull the GM aside and tell him flat out that rolling stats is baldersnit, and to insist on numbers that are equal to an average of what everyone has. Tell him you're not interested in being the funny gimp for ten minutes' worth of RP at your expense, then sitting out hour-long combats.


An old man who is going through an end life crisis, and uses his eidolon as a suit to do the adventuring he never got to do in his youth. So synthesist.


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I think when rolling for stats. The best option is if everyone rolls one set, and this set is open to the table. Anyone can use an array that was rolled. This will help make it a little easier to get a fair stat array per player.

GM should still be free to disallow really low or high stat array. :)


As other pointed out, i'd ask the GM for something decent ... this is b##*@+!&.
If he doesnt listen, you have then two options (that are actually not exclusives).
1) Go suicidal. (the Transmuter elf wizard is fun, you'll have 3 HP, if you take 8 damage you're dead dead dead)
2) Go for an overly optimised build. Something that summons and casts is great. (have a few options on that). You don't need good stats for this.

If you really want to play with such stat array, stay as far as possible of anything martial/melee ... A caster won't be as bad with these stats.

Silver Crusade

Danzibe1989 wrote:
To the people not even making useful suggestions: I have a second set of MUCH better stats rolled up, but I figured instead of taking the 18, 18, 14, 13, 13, 13

You know that this is as bad as the array in the OP, right?

In both cases, your only option is to play a class with an animal companion or eidolon. Why? Because their stats are already assigned!


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Lotta people in here not even trying to help the OP. If you can't think of a way to use the "hard mode" array the OP chose over a better one, and you're just here to soapbox about point-buy, you aren't here to help. You're here to whine vicariously for a game you aren't in.

@OP As others suggested, summoning spells and staying in the back are low-stat dependant, as are buffing spells. Taking crafting feats can also be very effective independant of an ability score. You could RP him as someone literal plucky sidekick. Or an average Joe who has no idea what's going on, and he's really confused about who in their right mind would do this adventuring thing.

Dark Archive

Well, that is an interesting array. Kudos to you for going with it.

As I see it, going with something that has a companion creature, summoning focus, or is support based has the most chance of survival.

Companion creature based:
Summoner: Eidolon to fight for you, use your token spellcasting to either buff it or summon other creatures.
Druid/Cleric with Animal Domain: same/same, just other buffs.
Promethean Alchemist: Equip the Homunculus to the wazoos (give it proficiencies if necessary) and harry your foes yourself with alchemical items (tanglefoot bags/tangleshot arrows, ghast retch flask, confabulation powder, vials of dead air, etc). Can be combined with Preservationalist.
Necromancer Cleric? Buff the party at early levels, then start animating your meatwalls if you survive the earlier levels.

Support based:
A buffer Bard: Inspire Courage is always good.
A debuffer Bard: Court Poet is a reverse Inspire Courage versus the enemy.
Freebooter Ranger: be the guy who constantly tells the others "Now get that guy!". Combine it with some utillity arrows (tangleshot arrows), wands of feather step combined with Burning Sands, Stone Call, or cast Entangle yourself (DC is atrocious, your party might be willing to risk it).

Offensive: risky, but doable I guess.
Flamedancer Bard for seeing through smoke, Equipment Trick (Smokestick), and a sneak attacking class; create poof of smoke, step back into smoke, attack from full concealment with ranged weaponry.
Goblin unchained rogue, multiclassed into Haunt Collector (take Transmutation for Enhancement bonusses, haunted implement for champion seance). You could always multiclass to something else that also improves the stats (like urban barbarian).


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Green Smashomancer wrote:
Lotta people in here not even trying to help the OP. If you can't think of a way to use the "hard mode" array the OP chose over a better one, and you're just here to soapbox about point-buy, you aren't here to help. You're here to whine vicariously for a game you aren't in.
Oh, do go on.
The Original Post wrote:
"...This is not a character I could take seriously...."

-- If he's not going to take it seriously, it's a fool's errand to exceed that level of dedication when rejoining.


Even a base summoner would be fine with those rolls, though a synthesist is always nice for abysmal stats. You just need to pick a race that lets you put your bonus in charisma, for a starting 12 charisma. At level 7, you'll already have the +1 to charisma from level 4, so you'd be fine for 3rd level spells. At level 10, you'd already have the +1 from level 8, so you'd be fine for level 4 spells. And you will almost certainly have a headband of charisma by that point to push you up past 16 in time for 5th and 6th level spells.

I'm not sure if I'd go synthesist though, because you may have some trouble qualifying for useful feats like power attack.

Grand Lodge

Gray Warden wrote:
Danzibe1989 wrote:
To the people not even making useful suggestions: I have a second set of MUCH better stats rolled up, but I figured instead of taking the 18, 18, 14, 13, 13, 13

You know that this is as bad as the array in the OP, right?

In both cases, your only option is to play a class with an animal companion or eidolon. Why? Because their stats are already assigned!

Really?

Danzibe1989 wrote:
@Lelomenia: Gunslinger does seem like a viable option, especially with a Goblin with +4 Dex in a 10 stat.

Seems like they are not assigned.

The second stats are a 58 point buy. Even if you have to use them in order STR/DEX/CON you could make a fighter,barbarian, bloodrager, hunter, skald, summoner, medium, ranger, druid, multiclass monster, melee alchemist, melee cleric or oracle, slayer, monk (with the right race like oread) quite easily. You would be limited to melee or ranged DPS but still functional


Wyrwood Summoner (Synthesist)

str 7
dex 10 +2
con - (use 1 of the 7's)
int 10 +2
wis 10
Cha 10 -2

For extra cheese, you are VENERABLE

str 7 -6 =1
dex 10 +2 -6 =6
con - (use 1 of the 7's)
int 10 +2 +3 = 15
wis 10 +3 =3
Cha 10 -2 +3 =11

(note that a really generous GM might say that the physical penalties don't apply to a construct...). Unfortunately, I know of no summoner archetype that uses INT instead of CHA. Pile your attribute bonuses in CHA...

If you use 3ed party material, JBe has a wyrwood summoner favored class bonus that would be pretty useful (see D20PFsrd), as well as the War Titan alternate racial trait - for 10 more HP.

As for flavor, "You mortal races really have no idea of horrible a curse time is... it will never stop!". Without your eidolon, you're helpless pile of time-worn parts... With it, you're superman!


Don't be a pansy summoner, fight your own battles!

lv 5 Melee Frontliner:
Tiefling (oni-spawn, +2 Str/Wis, -2 Cha), Prehensile Tail alternate Racial trait.

Str 12, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 5

Levels and Feats:

Id Rager (Dedication) 1
1 Extra Rage, Dutiful Strike, Iron Will (B), Skill Focus (Sense Motive) (B)

Wild Child Brawler 2
2 Flexibility
3 Extra Rage, Brawler's Flurry

Guerrilla Unrogue 2
4
5 Boon Companion, Cover of Night, Combat Trick-> Equipment Trick: Smokestick (B)

Gear:

Wand of Enlarge Person - 750 gp
Palelight Torch - 250 gp
MWK Versatile Design Butchering Axe - 865 gp
Smokesticks - 20 gp ea (1/3 if crafted)

Defense:

Total Concealment
Cold, Electricity, Fire resistance 5.

Offense:
4 (BAB) +4 (Str) -1 (Size) +2 (Dedicated Adversary) +1 (Enhancement) -2 (TWF)

+8/+8 (4d6+6, x3) +1d6 SA
(Enemies are flat-footed unless they have uncanny dodge)

Dutiful Strike:

+10/+10 (6d6+6)

And a companion.

Tactic:
Hold a smokestick with your tail and use your swift actions to puff out a 10x10 cloud, giving you Total Concealment as long as you're in dim light (which is why the Palelight Torch is needed).

The first round of combat should be used to cast Enlarge Person from a wand, and flex into Dedicated Adversary for the +2/+2 bonus.

You'll gain proficiency with the Butchering Axe automatically when you add it to the Close weapon group, and will be able to flurry with it.

Cons:
You don't want to fight in bright light, as the Palelight Torch only brings down the light from normal to dim. This effect has a radius of 40 ft, so make sure your party doesn't have any inferior races without darkvision in it.
You could pop some Gloomsticks if you're forced to fight in bright light, but I'd carry a makeshift tent or just run below a tree if possible.

Note that you need 19 Str to not take an attack penalty, which you'll get at level 4 with your ability score increase, while enlarged/raging. You could add the Mutagenic Mauler archetype to the brawler levels for Mutagen, but then you'd need two standard actions to buff up.
***


Slim Jim wrote:
Green Smashomancer wrote:
Lotta people in here not even trying to help the OP. If you can't think of a way to use the "hard mode" array the OP chose over a better one, and you're just here to soapbox about point-buy, you aren't here to help. You're here to whine vicariously for a game you aren't in.
Oh, do go on.
The Original Post wrote:
"...This is not a character I could take seriously...."
-- If he's not going to take it seriously, it's a fool's errand to exceed that level of dedication when rejoining.

An even lesser level of dedication would be not posting in a thread you dont like.

Edit: But this derailment is also just distracting from the point of the thread, so I'll just leave my thoughts as they are and second the advice to go for a summoner.


I think you still need Weapon Adept or Modified Weapon Proficiency for the butchering axe brawler. “...cannot be wielded without the Weapon Adept or Modified Weapon Proficiency feat.” But good thought.

For melee, anyone + mammoth lance. Or better, Paladin + mammoth lance. Or better, Paladin Vmc Cavalier with mammoth lance. Or better, virtuous bravo Paladin vmc cavalier with an undersized mammoth lance.


Lelomenia wrote:
I think you still need Weapon Adept or Modified Weapon Proficiency for the butchering axe brawler. “...cannot be wielded without the Weapon Adept or Modified Weapon Proficiency feat.” But good thought.

Hm, true. It doesn't even say that you're not proficient, it just goes straight to "cannot".

So the 2nd Extra Rage feat will have to go, with Weapon Adept taking it's place. 10 rounds of rage is pushing it, so I'd ask the GM if I could take the Berserker of the Society trait for +3 rounds.

Edit: Right, outsiders can't benefit from Enlarge Person. Will redo the build in a moment.


This... Actually makes me want to play a game where the player's base scores are 10/10/10/10/7/7 before racial modifiers. The restrictions would be no races that have a higher than +2 bonus (None of the +4's or the +6's allowed) and no Summoner Spells or Companion classes. I know too many people who whine and cry if they don't start with an 18 in stats, so it would be a fresh take to play the "NPC" characters instead of the overpowered hero. (Bonus Points if the GM DOES NOT use a GM-PC during the game).

Unfortunately, a lot of people on the forums don't understand the concept of "fun" when building and would prefer optimization crunch over interesting fluff. I am going to go against the grain here and suggest something a little more fun (because this isn't PFS).

You will want to be Human and take levels in Spirit Guide Oracle and a Paladin (Any Archetype that supports a Ranged Build should work). Ask your GM if they would allow the pre-erreta Divine Protection if you don't want to take Paladin Levels, but you'll want them because of lay on hands.

Level 1, you will want to have Noble Scion (War) and Desna's Shooting Star Style. Grab Life-Link and Channel Energy with Spirit Guide while taking either Nature or Lore revelations to get CHA to AC.

Using this build, you'll only need to focus on one stat: Charisma.
- Charisma to Damage and Attack (Desna's Shooting Star Style)
- Charisma to All Saves (Paladin level 2 or Divine Protection)
- Charisma to Initiative (Noble Scion)
- Charisma to AC and CMB/Ref (Oracle)

You will also be semi-heal due to Life Link and Channel Energy.

(Honestly, I have no clue if this build would work. Considering all you need to do is focus on buffing Charisma, it should be fine with low dice roll/point buy like this).

@ Wonderstell - Instead of Prehensile Tail, why not take "Human-Like" so you can be effected by Enlarge Person? Besides, Smoke Stacks can be thrown, and regardless of holding them or not you'll still need to spend the standard action to activate it. Having played a blind monk before, a Smoke Stack isn't really necessary to be held if you can position it effectively.


TheMonkeyFish wrote:
@ Wonderstell - Instead of Prehensile Tail, why not take "Human-Like" so you can be effected by Enlarge Person? Besides, Smoke Stacks can be thrown, and regardless of holding them or not you'll still need to spend the standard action to activate it. Having played a blind monk before, a Smoke Stack isn't really necessary to be held if you can position it effectively.

Since a melee character is expected to move around, the Equipment Trick is needed to make sure we'll get concealment even when the enemy 5-foot steps away. Also, the Slow Burn trick gives us the option to light it up to one hour before combat.

So just roleplay a chain smoker and you're always combat-ready.

lv 5 Melee Frontliner, revised:
Smokey the Bear Human.

Str 12, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 7

Racial Traits:
Bonus Feat
Dimdweller (Darkvision)

Traits:
Adopted (Fetchling) -> Adaptable Flatterer (+1 to Bluff, +1 to Attack)
Berserker of the Society (for Barbarians, but predates the Bloodrager. Ask your GM.)

Levels and Feats:

Id Rager (Dedication) 1
1 Extra Rage, Racial Heritage (Grippli), Dutiful Strike, Iron Will (B), Skill Focus (Sense Motive) (B)

Wild Child Brawler 2
2 Martial Flexibility
3 Agile Tongue, Brawler's Flurry

Guerrilla Unrogue 2
4
5 Boon Companion, Cover of Night, Combat Trick-> Equipment Trick: Smokestick (B)

Comment: If you don't care for a companion, you'd free up the Boon Companion feat slot and gain one combat feat at the 2nd brawler level. Those would be used to take Extra Rage and Weapon Adept.

Gear:

Wand of Enlarge Person - 750 gp
Palelight Torch - 250 gp
MWK Versatile Design Butchering Axe - 865 gp
Smokesticks - 20 gp ea (1/3 if crafted)

Defense:

Total Concealment

Offense:

Rage: 10 (or 13) rounds per day.

Total Attack Bonus:
4 (BAB) +4 (Str) -1 (Size) +1 (Enhancement) +1 (Adaptable Flatterer) -2 (TWF)

+7/+7 (4d6+4, x3) +1d6 SA
(Enemies are flat-footed unless they have uncanny dodge)

Dutiful Strike:

+9/+9 (6d6+4)

And a companion.

Tactic:
Hold a smokestick with your tail tongue and use your swift actions to puff out a 10x10 cloud, giving you Total Concealment as long as you're in dim light (which is why the Palelight Torch is needed).

The first round of combat should be used to cast Enlarge Person from a wand, and flex into Dedicated Adversary Weapon Adept.

You'll gain proficiency with the Butchering Axe automatically when you add it to the Close weapon group, and will be able to flurry with it.

***

Grand Lodge

Nightmare fist

While fighting within an area of magical darkness, you gain a +2 bonus on damage rolls with unarmed strikes, or a +4 bonus against opponents that are shaken, frightened, or panicked. You also gain a +2 morale bonus on Acrobatics and Intimidate checks.

Moonlight Stalker

Prerequisites: Int 13, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Bluff 3 ranks, darkvision or low-light vision racial trait.

Benefit: While you have concealment from an opponent, you gain a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls against that opponent.

May help the above build.


Are there any limits on available races?

If not, maybe you can talk your GM into letting you play a Drow Noble. I would probably allow it in a game I was running as compensation for such a pitiful stat array (a -8 point build, if I have calculated it correctly -- and most commoners have +3 point builds).

If your GM doesn't let you do that, make an alchemist, stock up on bombs, and try to work out with him various ways to increase bomb damage at the expense of reducing their range. Once you get him to agree to letting you set off all of your bombs at once at point blank range, your character can enter a (very short) career as a suicide bomber.

Silver Crusade

Grandlounge wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
Danzibe1989 wrote:
To the people not even making useful suggestions: I have a second set of MUCH better stats rolled up, but I figured instead of taking the 18, 18, 14, 13, 13, 13

You know that this is as bad as the array in the OP, right?

In both cases, your only option is to play a class with an animal companion or eidolon. Why? Because their stats are already assigned!

Really?

Danzibe1989 wrote:
@Lelomenia: Gunslinger does seem like a viable option, especially with a Goblin with +4 Dex in a 10 stat.

Seems like they are not assigned.

The second stats are a 58 point buy. Even if you have to use them in order STR/DEX/CON you could make a fighter,barbarian, bloodrager, hunter, skald, summoner, medium, ranger, druid, multiclass monster, melee alchemist, melee cleric or oracle, slayer, monk (with the right race like oread) quite easily. You would be limited to melee or ranged DPS but still functional

The second array is bad because it's too good. Both arrays are, together, the perfect example of why rolling stats is absurd: it allows for extreme cases which cause imbalance within the party, in either direction.

Go Kitsune Summoner with a humanoid eidolon who pretends to be the real character. Be permanently in Fox Shape, and pretend to be its familiar.


Gray Warden wrote:
Grandlounge wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
Danzibe1989 wrote:
To the people not even making useful suggestions: I have a second set of MUCH better stats rolled up, but I figured instead of taking the 18, 18, 14, 13, 13, 13

You know that this is as bad as the array in the OP, right?

In both cases, your only option is to play a class with an animal companion or eidolon. Why? Because their stats are already assigned!

Really?

Danzibe1989 wrote:
@Lelomenia: Gunslinger does seem like a viable option, especially with a Goblin with +4 Dex in a 10 stat.

Seems like they are not assigned.

The second stats are a 58 point buy. Even if you have to use them in order STR/DEX/CON you could make a fighter,barbarian, bloodrager, hunter, skald, summoner, medium, ranger, druid, multiclass monster, melee alchemist, melee cleric or oracle, slayer, monk (with the right race like oread) quite easily. You would be limited to melee or ranged DPS but still functional

The second array is bad because it's too good. Both arrays are, together, the perfect example of why rolling stats is absurd: it allows for extreme cases which cause imbalance within the party, in either direction.

Go Kitsune Summoner with a humanoid eidolon who pretends to be the real character. Be permanently in Fox Shape, and pretend to be its familiar.

The second example is fine, point buy in general is just terrible because their numbers are too low.


OK! Sorry for late responses but I've been away for a bit. I've read everything and love the suggestions, naysayers be damned.

This character, while not taken seriously because *points at stats*, will still be a character I try to play and survive with. I've played pathfinder since the beginning and 3.5 before it. I've a lot of experience and games and find it hard to find things that don't make me snore at the table, so this is something new for me.

No the stats are not preassigned, I can put them where I want them. Yes I willingly chose this stat roll. Yes we rolled stats, boohoo not everyone is created equal, adventurer or not.

I like the idea of a bumbler, or someone who just fell into things accidentally and now he's stuck on these adventures, however the party is stuck knowing each other ahead of time. So far I've been thinking of something Goblin Based for Ranged, but Summoner's are excellent ideas as well as most casters. I was also thinking of being Mature in age for -1 Physical and +1 Mental as long as it was a caster class. Races are locked into what I said they were, can't choose anything else for Race other than variants of the race. No I can't be Drow Noble because the DM seems to believe you must take the feats to become one, just like he thinks newer books override other books. I.e. Drow Noble used to have a point cost, but they aren't in a book so they don't exist without feats etc etc.

Do I believe both stat arrays are terrible? No. Stats are just numbers. It's how you roleplay the character that matters.

Currently: Any spellcaster might do well but he'd have to stay way in the back. Chances are something more support based is better for this build or indeed companion based. If something, anything, were to get in fighting contact, it's almost guaranteed this character will die (that is why i'm not taking the character seriously. i expect it to die)


I concur with the Synthasist Summoner routine. Instead of conjuring up an eidolon you instead assume its form and gain all of its physical stats.

Thus, we could put the 7s in our physical stats and retain our 10s in mental and con. From there, we just need to be a race with +cha and we're good to go. Going as a mature character works really well with this idea.


ShroudedInLight wrote:

I concur with the Synthasist Summoner routine. Instead of conjuring up an eidolon you instead assume its form and gain all of its physical stats.

Thus, we could put the 7s in our physical stats and retain our 10s in mental and con. From there, we just need to be a race with +cha and we're good to go. Going as a mature character works really well with this idea.

Half elf would be the best race for that since their favored class bonus gives more evolution points with which they can shore up any shortcomings.


I mean... the Synthasist Summoner IS a very good class archetype to use when you want to erase 3 of your stat blocks. This would allow you to remove the 7's and one of your 10's without worrying about your mental stats by going old age.

Lets be honest though... "Stats are just numbers." is a lot easier to say when you have 16/12/13/11/11/13 instead of 12/12/10/10/7/5.

Don't get me wrong - there is no shame in cheese when you have a low stat array. Actually, using the Synthasist Summoner should bring your power level to "average" level due to the ability to just throw away 3 of your bad stats.

Just make sure you prepare "Summon Eidolon" in case your DM throws a surprise combat towards you. 1 minute to prep your "Armor" is not something you would enjoy - trust me.


I don't get why Synthesist is supposed to be better for these stats than regular Summoner.

Regular summoner is probably the least stat dependent thing in the game: Strong frontliner independent on your stats, even without a headband a 10+2 starting stat plus pips is enough to cast all spells, more than enough good spells on the list to never use one requiring a saving throw ever, most of the arcane defensive spells, no need to use combat actions that break invisibility or that require you to be near the enemy.

Unless the GM is a jerk, a flying, invisible Summoner that almost never casts spells with a visual effect is about as save as you can get.

The amount of combat power that a free quicken on every spell grants is more than enough to make a Summoner/Eidolon team harder to kill in combat than a Synthesist is.

Silver Crusade

The good thing about Synthetist is to merge the eidolon's good physical stats with YOUR good mental stats. Your mental stats are awful! So there is no gain in going Synthetist over a vanilla Summoner.

The only good thing you have is your own set of actions, which you lose if you go Synthetist.


The issue is that with stats these poor you gain very little through gaining extra actions. With 13 as the highest casting stat available, and 12 as the highest combat stat, there are no reasonable actions for them to take during combat if they go traditional summoner.

The second thing Synthasist gets you is HP, initiative, two saving throws, and armor class. You are far less likely to kick the bucket with your Eidolon as a second skin.

The third thing is that you don't need to divide your magical items between yourself and your eidolon, and can instead focus all your wealth on yourself. With stats this low, its imperative to boost our chances of survival and magic items are a great way to do that.

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