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Silver Crusade

Meirril wrote:
Ok, this requires a huge caveat. For this build to work you need the GM to agree that somehow your character acquired a Cape of the Mounteback or other item that lets you dimension door before you became 3rd level.

I don't think that would work. Unlike the Teleportation Mastery feat which specifically states that the spell you cast through the item is a spell-like ability, normal command-activated magic items do not work like that. The Dimensional feats require you to be able to cast Dimension Door as a spell or spell-like ability, but activating an item that duplicates the effect of Dimension Door does not count as having access to it as a spell or spell-like ability. It is pretty much equivalent to having a wand of Dimension Door.

Silver Crusade

The earliest possible without "paid" retraining is 9th level, but it requires Esoteric Training from the Guilds optional system. It allows to multiclass 3 levels out of your spellcasting class without losing spellcasting progression:

Human Wizard/Fighter/(Eldritch Knight)

1 Fighter, BAB 1, Any 2 feats, any one combat feat
2 Wizard, BAB 1
3 Wizard, BAB 2, Favorite Prestige Class
4 Wizard, BAB 2
5 Wizard, BAB 3, Prestigious Spellcaster
6 Wizard, BAB 3
7 Fighter, BAB 4, Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Dervish*
8 Fighter, BAB 5,
9 Fighter, BAB 6, Flickering Steps, Dimensional Assault

* At 4th level, Fighters can swap any one bonus combat feat they know for any other combat feat they qualify for. This is a Fighter core class feature, it can be done as part of the level up and it doesn't require any gold or time. At 9th level (4th Fighter level) you would swap whatever combat feat you got at 7th level for Dimensional Dervish.

You can then continue as Eldritch Knight, effectively losing only 1 spellcasting level until 19th level.

Is Human: YES
Is an Arcane Caster: YES
Is a Melee Fighter: YES
Has some Sneak Attack: YES with Sense Vitals spell
Is level 8: NO, but close

Alternatively, if Esoteric Training is not available, the earliest you can get it without retraining is 10th level:

Human Wizard/Fighter/(Eldritch Knight)

1 Wizard, BAB 0, Any 2 feats
2 Wizard, BAB 1
3 Wizard, BAB 1, Favorite Prestige Class
4 Wizard, BAB 2
5 Wizard, BAB 2, Prestigious Spellcaster
6 Wizard, BAB 3
7 Wizard, BAB 3, Dimensional Agility
8 Wizard, BAB 4,
9 Fighter, BAB 5, Flickering Steps, Dimensional Assault
10 Eldritch Knight, BAB 6, Dimensional Dervish

You can still pick the Prestigious Spellcaster feats and continue with Eldritch Knight until 19th level, losing only one spellcasting level. overall.

Silver Crusade

Hi all.

I have used the Ghost Syrup to make my familiar incorporeal, so that it stays alive longer, especially against AoE spells and effects. However being incorporeal means that buffs will also have 50% chance of not having effect. Do you know of any way to circumvent the issue?

We are at 17th level, so anything is available in principle. The familiar has an Amulet of Grasping Souls so can use equipment as normal. I was thinking of a wand of Ghostbane Dirge that the familiar can activate when my character is planning on casting a buff, but it doesn't explicitly say anything about non-damaging spells.

Of course rods of Ectoplasmic Spell are also an option, but they are good only for out-of-combat buffs. They do not work for buffs cast by allies, nor for in-combat casting, since my character uses a weapon and can't cast while wielding also a rod.

Do you have any other idea?

Silver Crusade

The Harrying Partners teamwork feat allows the Aid Another bonus to stick for an entire round instead of a single attack. Does the aided creature need to stay adjacent to the aider to benefit from the Aid Another bonus after it has been granted, or can they move freely and enjoy the bonus regardless of their positions?

Example: the Dwarf with Bodyguard and Swift Aid feats is adjacent to the Halfling, while also threatening the enemy Ogre. The initiative order is: Ogre > Dwarf > Halfling. In the Ogre's turn, the Ogre attacks the Halfling. The Dwarf uses one AoO to Bodyguard the Halfling, granting him +2 to AC against all attacks of the Ogre. In his turn, the Dwarf uses a swift action to aid again the Halfling, granting him +1 to hit against the Ogre, and then moves away from the fight. Now the Halfling is alone against the Ogre.

Does the Halfling still benefit from the +2 to AC and +1 to hit vs the Ogre for the remainder of the round?

Silver Crusade

Cevah wrote:
If you have a feat that applies to all muskets, it would apply to: Axe musket, Double-barreled musket, Dragoon Musket, Musket, and Warhammer musket.

Sure. And if you have a feat that applies to all battleaxes, it would apply to: battleaxe, weapons that "can be used as [...] a battleaxe".

Weird how logical implications work, uh.

Silver Crusade

Firebug wrote:
Considering Protector archetyped familiar requires you to trade out Alertness, and Blood Sentinel doesn't get Alertness... not sure it matters.

Thank you for pointing that out, I had missed it. My character can still get a "normal" familiar, albeit only as a 1st level one, meaning that it would have only half of the master's HPs, but at least it would not be prone to be dispelled.

Firebug wrote:
Greater Magic Aura should work against Arcane Sight in general, but not sure about the Greater version (since it doesn't specifically call it out). Alternatively, just use Greater Magic Aura to make them show up with... as many spells as you care to name (essentially just hand your GM a printout of 100 spells). That gives them a wealth of options to targeted dispel, the vast majority of which are fake.

How does Greater Magic Aura work in this case? Say that my familiar has Anthropomorphic Animal on and I use Greater Magic Aura to make it look like it is actually under the effects of Alter Self. Do both spells show up? Can I choose to hide Anthropomorphic Animal and show only Alter Self?

Silver Crusade

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Cevah wrote:
If you have a feat that applies to all axes, they it should apply to the Axe Musket. Weapon Focus is not such a feat.

The weapon description says that the Axe Musket "can be used as [...] a battleaxe", not just an axe. You statement should have been:

"If you have a feat that applies to all axes battleaxes, then it should apply to the Axe Musket. Weapon Focus is not such a feat."

Silver Crusade

I am using a Blood Sentinel protector familiar, together with a Benevolent Armored Coat, the Anthropomorphic Animal spell and Shared Training to share a couple of teamwork feats, to greatly boost my character's AC. My character is a "tank" of some sort, having incredible AC, dealing decent damage to keep the enemies interested in trying to attack him, but not high enough to eclipse the proper damage dealers, while also protecting them. He's the rock of the party, not the one finishing off the enemies, not the one casting amazing spells, but the last one standing when everything goes bad. And to do so, he needs some help from his friend.

We are at 15th level, so the familiar has full HPs, making it quite resistant to raw damage, but it can be easily obliterated with a simple Dispel Magic. Being a Small-sized familiar, while in humanoid form and fully armored, it can easily pass for a regular cohort, so I am not afraid of it being constantly targeted with Dispel Magic, but it's the occasional blind Greater Dispel Magic, or that one divination Wizard with Greater Arcane Sight that worry me. So far it has worked perfectly, but being one Dispel Magic away from seeing my character's AC almost halved, and his whole role nullified, is not great.

Do you have any suggestions on how can I protect his familiar in these circumstances, so that it can keep protecting him?

A few considerations:
- The familiar makes great use of Aid Another to Bodyguard, so Invisibility is not really an option. Greater Invisibility would work, but it lasts very little time, it is easily fooled by See Invisibility (unless I also invest into Nondetection/Mindblank or similar spells) and I do not think it is the best option.
- Apart from Bodyguard and providing passive bonus to AC through some teamwork feats, it does not do much. The teamwork feats are, if relevant, Lastwall Phalanx, Extend the Bulwark and Harrying Partners.
- As said, we are at 15th level, we have reliable access to Cleric, Wizard and Druid spells, and my character is fairly good at UMD, so any spell can help. Preferably lasting longer than rounds per level.
- Expensive items are on the table, both because of the high level, and because this familiar is indeed integral part of my build. The familiar has humanoid shape via Anthropomorphic Animal, so magic items slots should not be a problem.

Silver Crusade

Meirril wrote:
And again, worse with Gray Warden's interpretation you could use Spell Immunity to be immune to Dispel Magic and GDM if you allowed that interpretation.

Except for the fact that Spell Immunity doesn't work against Dispel Magic, because it does not call for Spell Resistance.

Meirril wrote:
To be fair, Ring of Counterspells is almost useless. Quite simply the effect is too narrow to be worth the cost. But hey, if you know the enemy uses Enervation then it isn't so bad.

Well, this is your assumption. And it is for spells such as Enervation that you would use Spell Immunity anyway.

Meirril wrote:
Considering that someone is using a 6th level spell to react to a spell your BG has already cast, or your BG is wasting an action to get rid of a buff that is already bad action economy.

This is true only for the first Greater Dispel Magic of the day, and assuming the day before was not an adventuring day or was not expended from previous days. So, on a regular adventuring day, with multiple combats, following a previous adventuring day with multiple combats, you are still spending the same amount of 6th level spell slots that the enemy is spending on you.

The rest is all circumstantial. Using a 4th level spell to be immune to 3rd level ones is what Lesser Globe of Invulnerability is for, regardless of how the ring works, and it is hardly game-breaking, since you hardly see it abused. The ring will just make the enemy waste ONE (1) Greater Dispel Magic, at the cost of half your ring slots: if they had only one Greater Dispel Magic prepared, then it was a good investment; if they are spontaneous casters or have more then one prepared, then it was not a great investment, since one ring slot (and possibly one 6th level spell that day) is not worth one turn delay on having your buffs dispelled anyway. Again, hardly game-breaking and consistent with how the ring seems to be intended to work: it's a once-per-combat safety net against a specific spell, no need to add restrictions.

Silver Crusade

I find the difference between targeting the wearer and the spell quite silly, and I don't believe this is how it works, as written nor as intended. To me, it seems that if you use Dispel Magic to target a spell, and the spell is on the wearer of the ring, you are still casting it "upon the wearer" for the purposes of activating the ring's effect.

If that wasn't the case, then the ring would become almost useless. Buffs cast during a fight can be easily identified using Spellcraft, and most buffs cast before combat can be inferred anyway, either via Knowledge[Arcana] (both popular skills on spellcasters), or simply because self evident. Occasions when someone will use a Dispel Magic blindly are actually fairly rare, as they can always pinpoint buffs worth dispelling. What's the point of having 50% of my ring slots occupied, if then I can get my Mirror Image dispelled anyway?

It's a one-per-combat item which also takes up an important item slot. I believe this interpretation is both consistent with RAW and game mechanics in general.

Silver Crusade

Canadian Bakka wrote:
EDIT: take the Deific Obedience and select Kurgess. You gain enlarge peson 3/day as a spell-like ability (CL equals your HD, I think). This is the easiest method for a warpriest that I can think of without level-dipping, playing a specific race, or using an archetype.

You need to go Exalted for 3 levels, losing 3 levels of class features. Deific Obedience is not enough. Evangelist would be better, since he would only lose 1 Warpriest level, but no Deities grant Enlarge Person as an Evangelist boon.

Dipping for 1 level into Goliath Druid with the Growth Subdomain is the best way to get both swift-Enlarge and regular Enlarge Person spell, with minimum Warpriest class progression loss. The only issue: you need to get a Stoneplate or Dragonskin armor if you are planning on wearing heavier armors.

Silver Crusade

Sorry for the mouthful. Does Dispel Magic count as a different spell relatively to Greater Dispel Magic for the purposes of activating a Ring of Counterspells?

Relevant rules:

Ring of Counterspells:
Upon first examination, this ring seems to be a ring of spell storing. However, while it allows a single spell of 1st through 6th level to be cast into it, that spell cannot be cast out of the ring again. Instead, should that spell ever be cast upon the wearer, the spell is immediately countered, as a counterspell action, requiring no action (or even knowledge) on the wearer’s part. Once so used, the spell cast within the ring is gone. A new spell (or the same one as before) may be placed into it again.

Dispel Magic:
You can use dispel magic to end one ongoing spell that has been cast on a creature or object, to temporarily suppress the magical abilities of a magic item, or to counter another spellcaster’s spell. A dispelled spell ends as if its duration had expired. Some spells, as detailed in their descriptions, can’t be defeated by dispel magic. Dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) spell-like effects just as it does spells. The effect of a spell with an instantaneous duration can’t be dispelled, because the magical effect is already over before the dispel magic can take effect.

You choose to use dispel magic in one of two ways: a targeted dispel or a counterspell.

Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make one dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) and compare that to the spell with highest caster level (DC = 11 + the spell’s caster level). If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.

For example, a 7th-level caster casts dispel magic, targeting a creature affected by stoneskin (caster level 12th) and fly (caster level 6th). The caster level check results in a 19. This check is not high enough to end the stoneskin (which would have required a 23 or higher), but it is high enough to end the fly (which only required a 17). Had the dispel check resulted in a 23 or higher, the stoneskin would have been dispelled, leaving the fly intact. Had the dispel check been a 16 or less, no spells would have been affected.

You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. If your caster level check is equal to or higher than the DC of that spell, it ends. No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.

If you target an object or creature that is the effect of an ongoing spell (such as a monster summoned by summon monster), you make a dispel check to end the spell that conjured the object or creature.

If the object that you target is a magic item, you make a dispel check against the item’s caster level (DC = 11 + the item’s caster level). If you succeed, all the item’s magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, after which the item recovers its magical properties. A suppressed item becomes nonmagical for the duration of the effect. An interdimensional opening (such as a bag of holding) is temporarily closed. A magic item’s physical properties are unchanged: A suppressed magic sword is still a sword (a masterwork sword, in fact). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.

You automatically succeed on your dispel check against any spell that you cast yourself.

Counterspell: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell targets a spellcaster and is cast as a counterspell. Unlike a true counterspell, however, dispel magic may not work; you must make a dispel check to counter the other spellcaster’s spell.

Greater Dispel Magic:
This spell functions like dispel magic, except that it can end more than one spell on a target and it can be used to target multiple creatures.

You choose to use greater dispel magic in one of three ways: a targeted dispel, area dispel, or a counterspell:

Targeted Dispel: This functions as a targeted dispel magic, but it can dispel one spell for every four caster levels you possess, starting with the highest level spells and proceeding to lower level spells.

Additionally, greater dispel magic has a chance to dispel any effect that remove curse can remove, even if dispel magic can’t dispel that effect. The DC of this check is equal to the curse’s DC.

Area Dispel: When greater dispel magic is used in this way, the spell affects everything within a 20-foot-radius burst. Roll one dispel check and apply that check to each creature in the area, as if targeted by dispel magic. For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, apply the dispel check as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel.

For each ongoing area or effect spell whose point of origin is within the area of the greater dispel magic spell, apply the dispel check to dispel the spell. For each ongoing spell whose area overlaps that of the greater dispel magic spell, apply the dispel check to end the effect, but only within the overlapping area.

If an object or creature that is the effect of an ongoing spell (such as a monster summoned by summon monster) is in the area, apply the dispel check to end the spell that conjured that object or creature (returning it whence it came) in addition to attempting to dispel one spell targeting the creature or object.

You may choose to automatically succeed on dispel checks against any spell that you have cast.

Counterspell: This functions as dispel magic, but you receive a +4 bonus on your dispel check to counter the other spellcaster’s spell.

Silver Crusade

There is no deity granting Enlarge Person as a bonus spell to Clerics, that I know of.

Your best option is having a bunch of potions (50gp each), requiring, at worst, a move action to draw and a standard to drink, which is still better than the 1 round casting time of the spell. Your 1st level spell slots are better used for Divine Favor anyway.

After the first couple levels, you should be able to afford a permanent Enlarge Person, since it's just 2500gp.

You might also want to get a wand of Longarm. Get a Wand Key Ring to get a +10 bonus to activate the wand via UMD. Get a trait that gives you UMD as class skill and +1 trait bonus; if UMD is already a class skill for you (multiclass or the Fey Thoughts alternate racial trait) you might not even need the trait at all. Alternatively, if you have a positive Intelligence score, the Pragmatical Activator trait might be more cost-effective. Get also a cracked Magenta Prism Ioun Stone for an extra +2 competence bonus to the check. With 5 ranks and Charisma 7, you'll have a base UMD bonus of 19, which is enough to auto-succeed on a 1. It will cost 750gp (wand) + 3000gp (Wand Key Ring) + 800gp (Ioun Stone), for a total of 3850gp. If you continue investing in UMD for 2 extra levels, you'll eventually move the +2 comp bonus to another, more useful, skill.

Silver Crusade

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
What effects are you referring to? Are we still talking about Feats?

For example, Weapon Focus[Battleaxe] and Guided Hand[Sekhmet].

If something can be used as a Battleaxe, I would assume it would benefit from +1 and Wis to hit from those feats.

Similarly, if something does not benefit from those feats, I would say it means it doesn't work as a Battleaxe.

Silver Crusade

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
Weapon Focus [Battleaxe] and Weapon Focus [Musket] apply at all?

I don't think so:

Firearms wrote:
Even though the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat grants you proficiency with all firearms, anytime you take a feat that modifies a single type of weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Rapid Reload), you must still pick one specific type of firearm (such as musket, axe musket, blunderbuss, pistol, or double pistol) for that feat to affect.

If you don't pick Weapon Focus Axe Musket, you don't get a +1 with an Axe Musket.

Gray Warden wrote:
Does the effect of the Guided Hand feat apply? If so, does it apply only when using the right end of the weapon?
If your deity's favored weapon is Axe Musket, I think you are golden. The Firearms rule I quoted above says to me that your Guided Hand Feat has to be specifically for Axe Musket. Although since Guided Hand only requires proficiency in the deity's favored weapon, that might be adequiate. It's a case you can make for your GM. I have no idea what, if any deities favor Axe Musket.

How do you reconcile these positions with RAW?

If an Axe Musket "can be used as [...] a battleaxe", then how does it not benefit from effects that affect a Battleaxe?

Silver Crusade

Urheil wrote:


honestly, i only read the first two pages and then tried to find conclusions. Maybe i missed it, don't know.

but since i'm running a campaign and i need some answers, that's what i came up with.

Since you actually need it, this is what in my opinion is the simplest and most objective answer you can have.

Let's consider someone with the Catch Off-Guard feat, holding a random item that could be used as an improvised weapon. Would that creature threaten with the improvised weapon? Of course they would, they can use improvised weapons without penalties, and I doubt anyone would say the opposite.

Now let's look at the actual Catch Off-Guard feat. Nowhere it says that this feat gives the ability to threaten with improvised weapons. This ability is therefore not due to the feat: you had it in you all along!

So yeah, improvised weapons threaten, regardless of any feat. Is this relevant in any practical way? Not really, considering that you can simply wear a Cestus for the same effect, except for the fact that it doesn't occupy your hand, you get better crit range, no -4 to hit, and you can easily add enchantments.

Silver Crusade

So, Axe/Warhammer Muskets. Let's look at the Axe Musket:

Axe Musket wrote:
This short musket features an axe blade at the end of its barrel. It can be used as both a musket and a battleaxe. It is considered a double weapon for the purposes of creating masterwork or magical versions of this weapon. If this firearm gains the broken condition, both the firearm component and the axe are considered broken. An axe musket uses either a bullet and a single dose of black powder or an alchemical cartridge as ammunition. This is an early firearm.

1) Does Weapon Focus[Axe Musket] apply to both ranged (Musket) and melee (Battleaxe) attacks? Do Weapon Focus [Battleaxe] and Weapon Focus [Musket] apply at all? If so, do they apply only to melee (Battleaxe) and ranged (Musket) attacks respectively?

2) Does the effect of the Guided Hand feat apply? If so, does it apply only when using the right end of the weapon? For example, a follower of Sekhmet using Wis for Battleaxe attack rolls, but not Musket ones. Or does it always apply since the weapon can be used as both a musket and a battleaxe, as opposed to either?

3) Does a Gunslinger regain grit when using either end of the weapon, since it is, intrinsically, a firearm? Or only when critting/killing with a Musket attack?

Silver Crusade


Alchemical Cartridge wrote:
An alchemical cartridge is a prepared bundle of black powder with a bullet or pellets, sometimes with more exotic material added, which is then wrapped in paper or cloth and sealed with beeswax, lard, or tallow. There are many types of alchemical cartridges, the simplest being the paper cartridge—a simple mix of black powder and either pellets or a bullet. Alchemical cartridges make loading a firearm easier, reducing the time to load a firearm by one step (a full-round action becomes a standard action, a standard action becomes a move action, and a move action becomes a free action), but they tend to be unstable. The misfire value of a weapon firing an alchemical cartridge increases as listed in each entry.
Gray Dust Cartridge: (Source Heroes of Golarion pg. 18) wrote:
Packed with mysterious magic-suppressing dust from the Mana Wastes, these rounds burst on impact and inhibit spellcasting. When a gray dust cartridge strikes a target, it deals only half damage, but the creature struck takes a –10 penalty on concentration checks to cast spells for 1d4 rounds and cannot cast defensively.

No mention to the adjusted misfire value. How does this work?

Silver Crusade

Well, the metamagic feat seems to exist specifically for non-Mythic characters, since otherwise they would already be able to cast Mythic spells without the feat.

That being said, other options? Spell Perfection is of course effective, but I am looking more for multiple spells that could be useful in general rather than a single one.

Silver Crusade

Looking for good spell options to use together with the Ascendant Spell feat, specifically Cleric and Wizard 3rd level spells, or lower. Any notable example? Does the Mythic effect justify the enormous +5 spell level increase? Feel free to list spells from other lists if particularly worthy, but keep the focus on Cleric/Wizard.

Furthermore, as all metamagic feats, the spell's DC is the same as the unmodified one: does the fact that the spell is now Mythic affect in any way saves and SR?

Silver Crusade

Summoner. Send your swarm of summoned Lantern Archons to do your bidding, while you are invisible at a safe distance. When, and if, the party manages to deal with them, send your quadruped pouncing eidolon to do a bit more damage. When, and if, they manage to survive that as well, just retreat. Sleep and repeat. Our GM used this tactic and was the most annoying thing ever. We were so happy when we managed to finally kill that punk. It took forever.

Silver Crusade

Yes, I have already included the Elemental Overflow bonus and +2 Dex/Con. Thank you for reminding me of the prereqs. The build will be modified accordingly.

Silver Crusade

Rant about the Kineticist*:
The more I read the Kineticist class, the more I realise it is so, so bad, and I really do not understand why so many people like it. Infusion are pretty much terrible until, maybe, if you got the right element, 6th Kineticist level. Utilities are overall a bit better, but still unsatisfactory, and the few that are actually useful clump together and compete for the same level slots. In both cases you often end up taking one or another simply because you have to*

Energize Weapon seems fine at a first glance, but it would require to spend Burn every round of attack, which is unacceptable. Even if I am willing to Gather Power as a move action (in my case, by moving the first Kineticist level earlier in the build, since at lower levels I cannot full-attack anyway), I still can't since I don't have free hands as I'm wielding a weapon! Unless I am using a gauntlet-like weapon, the two abilities are incompatible, so I am taking damage to add one (1)d6 damage and that's it. What a waste. Of course, Infusion Specialization fixes the problem but, again, not before 5th level, meaning levels 1-4 are simply going to be awful. And this is not even taking into account the specific case of a multiclass build.

Kineticist really gives me the impression that, despite all the apparent customizability of the class, it has only one way to be played: physical blasts and Kinetic Blade, that's it.

I have also given a look at the Esoteric Knight, which seems good as it gives me full BAB, good Will save instead of Reflex, and bonus combat feats. It however halves the blast damage progression, which is the whole point of this build.

Rant over, this is the best build I could come up with so far. Dex enhancements and weapon +1s have been included, although somehow arbitrarily. Average damage was calculated against summary target AC/touch AC of appropriate CR. Target AC was calculated as the round-up mean over the Bestiaries, while target touch AC was calculated as the round-up mean touch AC + 1 standard deviation. This because:
1) Mean touch AC, by itself, was stable at 12 across all CRs of reference.
2) In an AP with lots of rogue-like swashbuckling pirates, you would expect touch AC to be overall in the higher end of the distribution.

Race: Undine, Amphibious alternate racial trait.
Stats: 5 19 16 10 16 7
Traits: Empathic Diplomat, Wisdom in the Flesh [Climb]

I have found a fun thing called Crossbow of the Crab which, while costing 2500gp for some inexplicable reason despite being just a Heavy Repeating Crossbow with the Underwater property attached, is indeed a mundane crossbow, and therefore counts for our complimentary battered starting crossbow. We'll start with one of those, and buy an Underwater Light Crossbow for the first few levels until we can afford to make the Crab one Resizing. If we later find a way to become Large (extremely unlikely, since we do not qualify for Enlarge Person), we can do 2d8 base damage instead of 1d10, for a net of +3.5 for just -1 to hit (and AC/Ref), which is arguably a better bargain than Deadly Aim.

1 Bolt Ace, Point-Blank Shot
2 Bolt Ace
3 Bolt Ace, Precise Shot
4 Bolt Ace, Rapid Reload
5 Bolt Ace, Rapid Shot
6 Kineticist, {Energize Weapon}
7 Kineticist, Crossbow Mastery, {Elemental Whisp [Compsognatus]}
8 Kineticist, {Thundering Infusion*, Elemental Overflow +1}
9 Kineticist, Improved Critical, {Air Shroud*}
10 Kineticist, {Extended Range*, finally free Energize Weapon}
11 Kineticist, Aerial Roll, {Wings of Air, Elemental Overflow +2, +2 size Dex/Con}
12 Kineticist, {Magnetic Infusion, Aerial Evasion}
13 Esoteric Knight (onward), Improved Precise Shot, Bleeding Critical (swap it for better Crit Feats at higher BAB via Burn)

I'm happy to get rid of anything with *.

Damage break down:
1 Dex: 19, Mwk L-Xbow; hit: +7, dmg: 1d8+1, avg: 3.6/3.9 vs AC 16/touch AC 15
4 Dex: 20, +1/Res Xbow; hit: +11, dmg: 1d10+2, avg: 5.4/7.0 vs AC 19/touch AC 15
5 Dex: 22, +1/Res Xbow; hit: +11/+11, dmg: 2x[1d10+2+Dex], avg: 19.4/25.9 vs AC 20/touch AC 16
6 Dex: 22, +1/Conduct/Res Xbow; hit: +11/+11, dmg: 2x[1d10+2+Dex]+1d6+1/2Con, avg: 21.4/30.2 vs AC 21/touch AC 16; occasionally +2x[1d6]
7 Dex: 22, +1/Conduct/Res Xbow; hit: +12/+12/+7; dmg: 3x[1d10+2+Dex]+1d6+1/2Con, avg: 26.5/41.7 vs AC 22/touch AC 16; occasionally +3x[1d6]
8 Dex: 23, +1/Conduct/Res/Dist Xbow; hit: +13/+13/+8; dmg: 3x[1d10+2+Dex]+2d6+1+1/2Con, avg: 26.8/45.2 vs AC 24/touch AC 17; occasionally +3x[1d6]
9 Dex: 25, +1/Conduct/Res/Dist Xbow; hit: +15/+15/+10; dmg: 3x[1d10+2+Dex]+2d6+1+1/2Con, avg: 40.8/65.5 vs AC 25/touch AC 17; occasionally +3x[1d6]
10 Dex: 25, +1/Conduct/Res/Dist Xbow; hit: +15/+15/+10; dmg: 3x[1d10+2+Dex+1d6]+3d6+1+1/2Con, avg: 42.6/82.0 vs AC 27/touch AC 17)
11 Dex: 27, +2/Conduct/Res/Dist Xbow; hit: +18/+18/+13; dmg: 3x[1d10+3+Dex+1d6]+3d6+2+1/2Con, avg: 54.6/89.5 vs AC 27/touch AC 17)
12 Dex: 28, +2/Conduct/Res/Dist Xbow; hit: +20/+20/+15; dmg: 3x[1d10+3+Dex+2d6]+4d6+2+1/2Con, avg: 67.5/112.0 vs AC 29/touch AC 18, occasionally +4 to hit)
13 Dex: 28, +2/Conduct/Res/Dist Xbow; hit: +21/+21/+16/+11; dmg: 4x[1d10+3+Dex+2d6]+4d6+2+1/2Con, avg: 63.6/127.5 vs AC 31/touch AC 21, occasionally +4 to hit)

The Distance property is so that we can hit touch AC underwater up to 100ft, but it's not strictly necessary. If our GM allows retraining, we'll pick Light Underwater Crossbow for Rapid Reload and Crossbow Training, and then retrain them to the Crossbow of the Crab at 7th level. Otherwise we'll go with the Crossbow of the Crab from the start, as it's still a repeating crossbow, so we have an autonomy of 3 rounds (2 full-attacks with Rapid Shot and 1 single-shot), which is not too bad.

The biggest problem I see with this build is the fact that accuracy does not scale well at all: at 13th level we should be able to auto-hit average ACs, but it's clearly not the case. This is because after level 5 we get 3/4 BAB progression and no class features or spells to increase our bonus to hit, while at the same time penalties begin to stack with Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim, which was originally included. True, we can hit touch AC, but then we cannot use Deadly Aim. In other words, while a staple of ranged builds, in this case Deadly Aim is not a good feat: when we can apply it, it leads to less damage than if we didn't use it (I actually did the math), and when it would be good to use it, we can't.

Silver Crusade

One thing that particularly perplexes me is the choice of a the second element for the purposes of Composite Blasts, as they are pretty much all physical. Why?

Since I need instead an energy Composite Blast, my choice is limited to:

1) Aetheric Boost. Since it directly boosts the damage of a Simple Blast, it still counts as the Simple Blast for the purposes of Infusions; too bad the final Composite Blast damage is terrible.

2) Blue Flame. The only true energy Composite Blast available, but it's sadly incompatible with the AP, since it has a strong underwater component.

3) Negative Admixture. Damage wise, it's the same as Blue Fire, the problem being that it is incompatible with Infusions.

I really don't understand why Composite Blasts are, by construction, pretty much all physical, except for fire. Since Kinetic Blasts are indeed Spell Like Abilities, I could make fire work in this AP if the Steam Caster feat was applicable to them, the same way Elemental Focus would, but I am not sure it does.

Do you think it works? If so, is it worth the extra feat?

Silver Crusade

I am used to playing versatile and complicated characters, which usually means casters. Next AP will be Skull and Shackles, and I want to challenge myself by exploring classes I do not know very well, while playing a more laid back character that doesn't need lots of micromanaging in game and between sessions, so I opted for a martial/non-spellcaster.

I would like to play an Undine with the Amphibious alternate racial trait, to have the swim and water-breathing issues solved from the start. I will then pick the Wisdom in the Flesh[Climb] and the Empathic Diplomat traits to get Climb and Diplomacy on Wisdom, both important skills for this AP.

Stats will be: 7-2 17+2 14 10 16+2 7 or 7-2 17+2 16 10 14+2 7, depending on whether I will prioritise Will saves, Grit and Wis-skills (Diplomacy, Perception, Sense Motive, Profession[Sailor]) over HPs and Burn or not.

I will start with 5 levels into Bolt Ace and choose a Repeating Hand Crossbow as my free MWK weapon, and buy an Underwater Light Crossbow for underwater fights. At 5th level, I will select the Underwater Light Crossbow as my favourite crossbow, unless I find another way to bypass underwater fights penalties.

After that, I will multiclass into Kineticist. I will make great use of a Conductive crossbow, which I should be able to afford by level 6. This means that I must choose energy blasts. The first element will be Air: I know it's anti-thematic, but since I am already limiting my potential by using a non-spellcaster, I do not want to further nerf myself by choosing an energy type (Water, i.e. cold) which will be automatically resisted by pretty much any creature living 20ft underwater.

Feats will be:
3 Precise Shot
4 Rapid Reload
5 Rapid Shot
7 Deadly Aim
9 Improved Critical

This being said, I have no further clue on how to continue the build. I have really little knowledge of the Gunslinger and Kineticist classes, so I would really appreciate any feedback on Infusions, Wild Talents, and other ways to improve my versatility beyond simply shooting at a target.

Silver Crusade

A Wereshark Skinwalker can choose between Amphibious OR Swim Speed upon transforming. My question is: why are these two abilities separate?

Amphibious is a particular case of Aquatic Subtype

Universal Monster Rules, Amphibious (Ex) wrote:

Creatures with this special quality have the aquatic subtype, but they can survive indefinitely on land.

and the Aquatic Subtype always grants swim speed

Aquatic Subtype wrote:
These creatures always have swim speeds and can move in water without making Swim checks. An aquatic creature can breathe water. It cannot breathe air unless it has the amphibious special quality. Aquatic creatures always treat Swim as a class skill.

So why is the swim speed a different ability?

As it is, I don't see the point of being Amphibian, having the Aquatic Subtype, being able to breath underwater, and yet not having a swim speed. I know of the existence of the Extra Feature feat, but I don't see the point of having to waste a feat slot to get two abilities that should already be merged in one either.

Am I missing something?

Silver Crusade

Related question: do you count as a creature of your own gender for the purposes of the Sharesister spell?

In other words, can you convert a 3rd level spell slot and 1/4/6 "temporary" negative levels into +1/+2/+3 CL and DCs for a few minutes per day?

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.

You just described what nerds are forced to play when they die and end up in hell.

Simulations are for computers. Games are for people.

Silver Crusade

Can you get claws on your feet? No, you cannot, and yet this limitation does not make you cry "iT's MaGiC".

If you cannot get claws on fully formed limbs such as legs, why would you even consider the idea of getting claws on wings or even when not having forelimbs at all?

Rules tell you what you can do, not what you cannot, and Sorcerer's claws do not say they come with a suitable appendage (unlike, say, the 10th level Evangelist perk). So, either you have suitable appendages in the first place, or you don't get any claws. Wings and legs do not constitute suitable appendages for claws, let alone not having arms at all.

It's insane that it's that difficult to grasp such a simple syllogism.

Silver Crusade

Sorcerer's claws work while polymorphed the same way they would work if you were not polymorphed. An arm-less sorcerer could still activate the claws class feature, but he would have no suitable limbs to put them on.

So yeah, you can't get claws on a snake. It's literally logic. And since magic still has to obey to some internal logic, logic beats magic every time.

Silver Crusade

None of them are birds. Temporary claws from class features still require suitable limbs (i.e. arms) to be used: since you cannot grow claws on your feet while in humanoid form, I am pretty confident on the fact that you cannot either grow them on your wings while in bird shape.

Silver Crusade

The transformation works as Beast Shape II. Since the feat does not specify the stats for a specific creature, you can pick any one you want as long as it is a Large bird. For example, you can choose the Giant Falcon to have bite/talon/talon natural attacks.

Silver Crusade

Guilds are a Fame-based system presented in Inner Sea Magic. One of the perks of being part of a Guild is Esoteric Training (+3/+1 CL), which requires a Fame score of 35. Acquiring Fame requires money, skill checks and in game time. According to the rules, you can get at most +2 Fame per semester, with semesters being 4 to 6 months long. Assuming a 4-months semester, this means that at least 6 years of in game time are needed to reach the 35 Fame mark. Is this correct?

We have discovered this system fairly late, as we are now a level 12 party. Are there any guidelines that correlate Fame to level rather than time, or say how to retroactive apply Fame?

Disclaimer: my GM is on board with all this, so no need to rant about how allegedly OP the perk is.

Silver Crusade

Plant Shape III says:

Plant Shape III wrote:
If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: DR, regeneration 5, and trample.

but after a quick search on aonprd (Monsters > plant + regeneration), it seems there are literally no plants with regeneration, let alone Huge ones.

There is the Heartrot Tree, which is a Huge plant and can regenerate a few days after being slain, but this is not the same regeneration intended by the spell. There is also the Wooden Protector, a Medium plant with regeneration 2, but it is 3.5 material. So, all in all, I could not find any suitable candidate.

Am I missing something?

Silver Crusade

EldonGuyre wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
EldonGuyre wrote:
we're all familiar with the invisible flying missile platform and nuclear rocket tag
The what and what?

I was not aware of the fact they had a standard name, thank you for clarifying :)

Silver Crusade

EldonGuyre wrote:
we're all familiar with the invisible flying missile platform and nuclear rocket tag

The what and what?

Silver Crusade

avr wrote:
Copy a cyphergull which has devoured a scroll; you probably don't get a duplicate which has another copy of the scroll ready to use, but if you do then you get 2 castings from a single scroll.

Same can be done with a spell cast via the Familiar Spell metamagic feat/rod, always assuming the spell is also duplicated (which I doubt).

On this regard, is any equipment on the familiar at the time of casting also duplicated? If so, then this:

Couple it with [6] Transfer Familiar to be able to grant a Party member the duplicate Familiar

can become quite terrifying. I have a Protector familiar granting +4 Initiative optimized for Bodyguard (+4 Benevolent half-plate, Extend the Bulwark and Harrying Partners via Shared Training). This means I would be able to grant +12 AC AND +4 Initiative to anyone without a familiar for at least 4 hours. I would probably ask for Pearls of Power 5 and 6 to pull it off regularly, which would be 61k (or 30.5k to craft). Even in the case the equip is not duplicated, a +1 Benevolent half-plate and 3rd level Pearl of Power for Magic Vestment are not that expensive (we are in the ballpark of 74k, 37k to craft).

Not cheap overall, but very powerful.

Silver Crusade

Coidzor wrote:

Either A. yes or B. no, because without material present, there's nothing to actually target with the SLA.

This recent thread about Fabricate + False Focus/Eschew Materials may be of further interest.

Thank you for the link. I think Chell Raighn's reply is the best one:

Chell Raighn wrote:

The answer is actually in the target section of the spell. The material component for Fabricate is also the target for the spell, if you ignore the material component the spell has no target and as such no item is created from the material.

So, No. You can not use Eschew Materials or False Focus to remove the cost of Fabricate.

So I guess the answer is no.

Silver Crusade

Senko wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
If useful, assume the familiar able to talk, anthropomorphic in shape, and able to perform pretty much every activity a human can do.
Just take improved familiar and pick an human/elf/x as your familiar to start with.:)


Silver Crusade

An Evangelist of Torag is able to cast Fabricate once per day as a spell-like ability.

Spell-like abilities do not usually require any material component.

How does this work with Fabricate? Does it mean you get to craft stuff for free every day?

Silver Crusade

If useful, assume the familiar able to talk, anthropomorphic in shape, and able to perform pretty much every activity a human can do.

Silver Crusade

Looking for creative ideas and shenanigans with the Duplicate Familiar spell.

Duplicate Familiar wrote:

School conjuration (creation); Level alchemist 4, sorcerer/wizard 5, witch 5

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (alchemically preserved mockingfey feathers), F (familiar)

Range touch
Effect temporary duplicate of familiar touched
Duration 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw Fort negates; Spell Resistance no

You create a duplicate of a familiar. The familiar’s master can use the duplicate as if it were his familiar in all respects, though he doesn’t gain the bonus special ability from more than one familiar at a time. When the spell’s duration expires, the familiar duplicate shrivels into nothing, even if petrified or otherwise transformed.

Silver Crusade

Ryze Kuja wrote:
Using that same logic, in Gray Warden's shield example, he's planning on using that thing as a weapon. It's no longer a shield, it's a weapon. He's enchanting it like a weapon, and he's carrying it into combat with the intention of swinging it around like a weapon. It's up to the GM to give that thing stats.

A light or heavy shield is both a shield and a weapon, and by RAW can be enchanted both with armor AND weapon magic properties, which will apply independently depending on its use. The rules you quoted literally say this: the two sets of enchantments (armor/shield and weapon) are independent and do not interact with each other. Shields appear as entries both in the Armors and Shields table, as well as in the Weapons table: no GM call is needed to determine the shield's stats as a weapon since they are already encoded in the game. Bucklers and Tower Shields, on the other hand, are explicitly excluded from being weapons.

None of this applies to improvised weapons, which are not standard weapons and follow their own rules, the same way natural weapons (you cannot craft a +1 Bite) or splash weapons (you cannot craft a +1 Acid Flask) do.

If I was his GM, I would say it deals the same damage as a light or heavy mace, but no longer provides an AC bonus unless he fights defensively with it (like the Blocking property for weapons). Feats that affect shields would also not apply to it. For all intents and purposes, it's no longer considered a shield, it's a weapon, and any applicable weapon feats would now apply to it.

None of this makes sense. Shield bash is a thing, and does not work like that at all.

Silver Crusade

CBDunkerson wrote:

We seem to have gone from, 'you cannot make an improvised weapon into a masterwork or enchanted weapon', to 'when you make an improvised weapon into a masterwork or enchanted weapon it no longer counts as improvised'.

I agree with that, but could still see GMs reasonably concluding otherwise. However, thank you for conceding the original point... bucklers (and frying pans) can be made into magic weapons.

They can't. It would be a GM call to say "alright, you can have a +1 light mace and describe it as a buckler, but it's still a light mace, so forget the +1 AC, since it's not an actual buckler". Same with any other "weapon" which is not explicitly encoded in the weapon table: "alright, you can have a +1 light mace and describe it as a frying pan, but forget the extra damage coming from Shikigami Style feats, since it's not an actual improvised weapon".

There is a profound difference between reskinning a weapon into another object, and making any object an actual weapon.

Silver Crusade

blahpers wrote:
What do the last n posts have to do with shields?

Ask the one who started talking about frying pans.

Silver Crusade

Ryze Kuja wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:

Can you provide a single example of an improvised weapon enchanted as a proper weapon over the entirety of published Paizo material?

It's not actually possible. Anything enchanted like a weapon becomes considered a weapon and is no longer an improvised weapon. Theoretically, even the +1 Frying Pan we were joking about earlier would become considered a weapon and no longer an improvised weapon as soon as it received the enchant.

Ah-ha, but you see, now it's not an improvised weapon anymore! You actually have to use weapon stats to make it work, and it is now essentially a reskin of an actual weapon.

Mechanically speaking, you are using a light mace (or any other weapon you want to use as its base) that you describe as a frying pan, nothing wrong with it, but for all intends and purposes it's a light mace (including proficiency and feats purposes), and not an improvised weapon.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
CBDunkerson wrote:
Gray Warden wrote:
The reason being: this is how the rules work.

...according to you.

Many people disagree with your interpretation.

According to rules, which are quite consistent on the matter: improvised weapons are not weapons, and if you disagree you should provide rule-based evidence instead of in real life or ad populum arguments.

- you are not proficient with improvised weapons even with Catch Off-Guard or similar features removing the -4 penalty to hit, unless you have the Improvisational Focus feat;
- you need the Improvisational Focus feat also to select weapon-specific feats, specifically those having Weapon Focus as prerequisite (so, not even all weapon-specific feats, such as Improved Critical);
- there is no weapon group encompassing improvised weapons;
- Gloves of Improvised Might specifically grant weapon enhancements to improvised weapons;
- there is even a FAQ stating that a weapon used as an improvised one does not benefit from the weapon enchantments.

None of these rules would exist if improvised weapons were treated as standard weapons by default. I am sure you and "many people" will come up with some convoluted explanations, but the simplest one is that indeed improvised weapons are not equivalent to standard weapons for the purposes of feats and weapon enchantments.

Can you provide a single example of an improvised weapon enchanted as a proper weapon over the entirety of published Paizo material?

Silver Crusade

There is no reason a "tool" cannot be made into a masterwork weapon and enchanted.

The reason being: this is how the rules work. Can you enchant a +1 Flaming Haramaki as a weapon just because you could throw it? No, you cannot.

Indeed, many 'standard' weapons are simply tools (e.g. scythe, sickle, trident, net, etc) being used for combat. Heck, a quarterstaff can be just a piece of wood you picked up off the ground... which is why they have no cost.

Just because some tools are also weapons, it doesn't mean that all tools are also weapons.

Melkiador wrote:
It seems really metagamey to not be able to enchant improvised weapons as weapons. Why can a sickle be a "weapon" but a hoe can't? And then say someone puts out a book where the hoe is listed as a weapon. Then suddenly it can be enchanted where it couldn't before? That's super metagamey.

Why can a sickle be used without the -4 penalty to hit but a hoe cannot without expending additional resources? Again, that's how the rules work. Improvised weapons are treated differently and cannot be enchanted like standard weapons, which is why Gloves of Improvised Might exist, and which is also why a +1 Longspear used as an improvised weapon to threaten adjacent squares does not add its weapon enhancement when used so (despite the enhancement applying to the actual physical object)

Silver Crusade

Ryze Kuja wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
Chell Raighn wrote:
Also, do note, that a buckler cannot be enchanted in this manner, even with the upsetting style feat to allow using a buckler as a weapon, the buckler itself is still only considered armor and as such cannot be enchanted as a weapon.

GMs vary.

Many would be fine allowing you to enchant a frying pan, let alone a buckler, with a +1 weapon enhancement bonus and other abilities if you wanted to.

As far as I know, the only requirement for enchanting something is whether it's masterwork or not.

Edit: Nvm, the rule says anything that is enchanted is "considered" masterwork... so I guess commonplace things like frying pans *can* be enchanted /shrug

Mwk weapons grant a +1 enhancement bonus to hit and can be enchanted as magical weapons.

Mwk armors grant a -1 ACP and can be enchanted as magical armors.

A mwk frying pan is neither a weapon nor an armor: at best, it is a tool which grants +2 circumstance bonus to a related skill (e.g. Profession [cook]). This does not mean it can be enchanted as a masterwork weapon, not because it is not masterwork, but because it is not a weapon.

It can be used as an improvised weapon, but it still does not count as an actual weapon, which is why Gloves of Improvised Might exist. Even if it counted as a manufactured weapon for a certain user (via feats such as Improvisational Focus), it would still not count as such for the purposes of effects that directly affect the object, such as enchanting.

This is the same as a Warhammer not qualifying for the Keen enchantment despite its user having the Weapon Versatility feat: just because a thing can be used as X, it is still not X.

Shields, on the other hand, are explicitly called out as weapons (they even appear in the weapons table).

Silver Crusade

The Training weapon enhancement can be applied on a weapon which is "drawn and in hand".

A shield can be enhanced as a weapon and, once drawn, is worn by strapping it "to your forearm and grip it with your hand".

To me it seems that a shield fits the definition of a weapon which is drawn and in hand for the purposes of the Training weapon enhancement. What do you think?

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