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Organized Play Member. 511 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 8 Organized Play characters.


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Hm... I'm not too magically inclined in Pathfinder, so I do not know the benefits of the Arcane Bloodline familiar then. I'll probably as the Advice threads to see what they thing. lol

Though - it seems like a Multi-target spell targeting the Familiar and another target would also work? Sadly, most of the fun damage spells are Ray-Attacks, which increases with every 3 levels instead of 2 levels.

Arcane Bloodline Familiar: Spell Catalyst (Su) - Spells you cast that target your familiar are treated as having a caster level 2 levels higher than your actual caster level.

So... Hypothetically speaking - if Mr. Crispy (the Familiar) moves into the enemies square, and is subsequently hit by my fireball, what happens?

A) The Spell is AoE and isn't "Targeting" so nothing happens.
B) The Caster Level is increased only against Mr. Crispy and the other targets in the AoE are affected normally.
C) The Caster Level is increased for all targets of Fireball if Mr. Crispy is in the AoE when it is cast.

Obviously, this Strategy is only going to be used on Fire Resistant familiars or Figmented Archetype familiars - to prevent Mr. Cripsy from a preemptive death due to his master exploiting him for "target" practice. But does this work at all?

JiCi wrote:

They currently have these modifiers:

+2 Dexterity, –4 Strength, –2 Constitution: Kobolds are fast but weak.


These would probably be a better set:
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, –2 Strength

They,re fast, physically weak, but they have a tendancy to compare themselves to true dragons. You can say they're boastful, but at this point, just show that they mean business.

Probably the only time you'll see a +2/+2/-2 Stat block on Kobolds are in the new Pathfinder 2E. Unfortunately, 2E Already has +2 Dex/+2 Cha/-2 Str (GOBLINS!), so I doubt Kobolds will have the exact same stat blocks. But this isn't a 2E thread (we already have a thread asking "WHY?!" for Goblin Stat Blocks), so instead I'll ask something else:

Why haven't we seen a -2 STR/-2 DEX/-2 Con/-2 INT/-2 WIS/-2 CHA Race yet? I want to see how they balance it. Lmao

I am also sad they never added something similar to the Mongrelfolk from 3.5 - a mixture of every race in the game through where there blood is so diluted from everything else that they are mixed with.

Kevin Willis wrote:
Check out the Organized Play FAQ

@Kevin Willis - THANK YOU! That is the link I was looking for when I was pondering this issue, and wasn't able to find it.

@BigNorseWolf, Selvaxri, Kevin Willis - Understandable, I doubt I'll be using this all too often. I always try to think of my actions between turns and recalculate depending upon other players actions so my turn takes as minimal as possible - but this'll be the first time finagling with "Summon" spells.

The main reason I asked was because of This Feat.

The last time that the group came together, our primary healer had ducked out last second and the group was also lacking a Strength based character. So the plan for this character was to create a focused healer that had an animal companion to help muscle when it was needed. I'll probably post on the advice board when it comes around.

Anyway, thanks for the prompt answer!

So... Lets say for an arguments sake that some Deity had both the Skalykind (Saurian) (Level -2) and Animal (Level - 4) Domains. If a PC gets both of these and gets Eldrich Heritage for the Arcane Bloodline (Level - 2), how would this work in Pathfinder Society?

I swore that I had seen an FAQs about this, and it had said that the PC would have to select one of their companions at the beginning of the session and leave the others "at the stables" (Effectively rendering them unusable).

Unfortunately, I'm unable to locate this FAQ and am completely lost.


Additionally, how would this rule effect a Druid casting Spontanious Summon Natural Companion while they already have an Animal Companion on the field?

Just wanted to point something out that you may not have considered, but PFS does not always ban material based solely on balance. Some bans are to restrict certain RP-related Prestige/Archetypes to Boon completion (Insert certain Wizard Archetype and Paladin Archetype here*). Additionally, many archetypes are banned due to Evil Fluff, including many "questionable but not restricted to" Evil fluff.

Insert certain Wizard Archetype and Paladin Archetype here*:
Thassilonian Specialist Wizard and Oath of the People's Councel Paladin

The definition for Vivisection is "A surgery conducted for experimental purposes on a living organism, typically animals with a central nervous system, to view living internal structure." - it has been strongly implied that the Vivisectionist in Pathfinder does not restrict their study to animals.

TL:DR - Vivisectionist was banned because it was an evil flavored Archetype, not because it was an overpowered archetype.

*Sigh* This is when I realized that I've got too many Fey-themed characters to play... You've got several distinct options for playing with Fey-themes.

Firstly, it sounds like you are playing a Fey-touched Caster. Other options that you might consider are Oracles (Nature with Pranked cursed is very "Fey" themed), Fey Trickster Mesmerist (Trust me, you will LOVE it), Seducer Witch (Really great option for non-PFS play and can multiclass into Mystic Theurge for the ultimate fey themed).

Pick your poison, you can never go wrong with Fey magics. Just make sure you learn proper fey eticate.

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Secret Wizard wrote:

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without a fully INT-based (Un)Monk archetype?

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without a Rageless Barbarian archetype?

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without a juicy late-level Gunslinger feat to encourage single-class builds?

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without Alchemist discoveries that grant them outsider-binding abilities?

You missed a few:

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without an Oracle option to Channel Negative Energy to Harm Living/Heal Undead?

So, are we seriously wrapping up 1E without a Shaman option to Channel Negative Energy to Harm Living/Heal Undead?

@Baggageboy @Talonhawke - Ah, my apologies... I misremembered the Versatile Design. I thought it was 500gp to give a weapon any Weapon trait in the game. I just looked it up and confirmed, its 500gp to add the weapon into any weapon group.

Same general idea though. Lol (I knew it was something like "It gives Class XXX the ability to use every weapon printed").

@Derklord - Please calm down... If you anger this easily on a simple misunderstanding, maybe the Internet isn't the best place for you to be...

Also, Versatile Design was banned because it allowed Unchained Monks to become proficient with and flurry with every single weapon in the game - which is a little silly if you think about it.

Talonhawke wrote:
The question is whether or not UC monks and unarmed fighters are proficient with Monk Group weapons or Monk Property weapon.

Unchained Monk: "Monks are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, short sword, shortspear, shuriken, siangham, sling, spear, and any weapon with the monk special weapon quality."

To be clear, the actual question is only for the Unarmed Fighter - because it does not clarify between the two (like how Brawler or Unchained Monk does).

Does anyone know where I can request text clarification? (Edit) - Specifically because there is apparent text missing from this Archetype.

Derklord wrote:
Now, if "monk weapon" meant "weapon in the monk weapon group", you could flurry with any weapon in the monk weapon group, and the monk special weapon quality would be meaningless (apart from stuff like the unMonk's proficiency, written 6 years later).

The point of my statement wasn't whether or not the weapon can be used as a Flurry weapon or not - but whether or not the weapon counts towards proficiency. Every other source of proficiency that points out a fighting group specifically calls out that fighting group (Example: The Brawler's "proficient with all simple weapons plus the handaxe, short sword, and weapons from the close fighter weapon group").

The Unarmed Fighter does NOT have this specification on their proficiency list (simply saying "proficient with all monk weapons, including exotic monk weapons.").

The fact that this archetype does NOT specify between Fighter Group or Special Weapon Property leaves this to GM Discretion until an FAQ or Clarification is released. Clearly there is missing text, and until that missing text is filled in, there is no way to be 100% certain.

P.S.: There is a reason why the Versatile Design weapon was banned in PFS, lol.

@Themetricsystem: This question is regarding the Unarmed Fighter archetype for the Fighter class - not the Chained Monk class. I also looked through most of the Rules Questions threads available - and could find nothing that had answered my question.

That being said, it seems that without taking a level in Unchained Monk, the general answer is "GM Discretion" - as the Archetype in question never specifies if the proficiency given was for the Monk Weapon fighting group or for weapons with the Monk weapon property, unless this is later cleared by official publishers.


Thank you for everyone who took the time to answer this request. I apologize if my question caused some tension between posters, but I do thank you for giving your time towards this request.

Hopefully the publishers can clarify this request later on.

So... I've been fiddling around with a character build concept involving the Spiked Chain, and noticed something that I wanted to make sure was correct. For clarification, this build is using the Master of Many Styles Monk with two levels dip into Unarmed Fighter.

Both the Unarmed Fighter and the Master of Many Styles Monk can select a style feat without meeting the prerequisites. The Kyton Style feat normally requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain) in order to obtain, but a MoMS Monk or Unarmed Fighter can select this feat without the prerequisites.

The Unarmed Fighter is proficient with all Monk Weapons.

The Kyton Style feat says "When using this style, you treat spiked chains as if they had the monk special weapon feature."

Does this mean that an Unarmed Fighter is proficient with Spiked Chains while using the Kyton Style feat? How does this function for other feat prerequisites that use the Spiked Chain?

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Ssalarn wrote:
The fact that so many people started channeling Six Bears tribesmen by immediately piling on mocking and deriding this version of Amiri as not looking "enough like a barbarian" is to me a pretty clear signal that this art does exactly what it should be doing.

I do not mind the new image of her, but what I do mind is the new ideals that Paizo is trying to push by Politically Correcting their content with PF2e. The bears tribe shunned Amiri's attempts to become a warrior because she was a Woman. NOT because she was a runt, NOT because she looked sickly and weak, NOT because she wasn't intimidating enough. She was rejected for being a warrior BECAUSE she was a woman.

All of the challenges that she had fought, all of the trials and tribulations she faced against, everything she had to overcome during her character development, EVERYTHING is effectively deleted because it's "wrong think" and Paizo doesn't like it.

So, instead of actually working on her character development with what they've already had - they turned back around and decided to make her a "hiccup" instead of keep going with what they had.

They chose Political Correctness over Character Development.

@Java Man - Ah, my mistake. I must have missed that. I thought that the "(typically to 18–20/×2)" text meant that it could stack with something else. I presume if there was another feat or feature that didn't have that phrase, than the two of them would stack - otherwise this feat becomes inherently worthless to me.

@blahpers - In all seriousness, how often do NPCs in Pathfinder Society actually engage in a duel with a Player? More specifically, how many NPCs are going to engage in a duel in Emerald Spire? I highly doubt that any monster in a hack-in-slash super dungeon will go "Sure, I'll fight you one-on-one!"

As it stands, Falling Water Gambit is inferior to Improved Critical in almost all regards. You require 5 additional feats, the same BAB requirements, it is only active after you've successfully feinted the enemy during combat, and it ONLY works with the Aldori Dueling Sword. (Edit: One of those feats don't count, I am pretty sure EVERYONE picks Weapon Focus for the weapon(s) they are using.)

I just don't see any reason to even consider Falling Water Gambit on any class - let alone the Swashbuckler which gets Improved Critical for free.

So... I've been looking at the Swashbuckler for a little while now. Specifically, the Aldori Dueling Sword wielding Rostland Bravo archetype. However, I have found a feat that has perplexed me and how it functions with the Archetype and build as a hole. Falling Water Gambit says "When attacking a creature denied its Dexterity bonus to AC because of your successful feint, you increase the threat range of your Aldori dueling sword by 1 (typically to 18–20/×2)".

How exactly does this stack with Improved Critical? I can see 3 possible outcomes regarding this feat and how it "Stacks":

1) The increased threat range occurs before the multiplier. Aldori Dueling Sword becomes a 18-20/x2 Crit that turns into a 15-20/x2 Crit with Imp. Crit.

2) The increased threat range occurs after the multiplier. This means the 17-20/x2 crit range after applying both feats.

3) Neither additions nor multipliers stack (ala: Keen/Improved Critical) - effectively turning this into a worthless feat that requires a 4 feat tax?

Also, if possible, could someone link the Keen/Improved Critical FAQ link? I can't find it, and was hoping that the wording of the FAQ might help clarify this situation. If Falling Waves Gambit does end up being an overpriced Improved Crit, I know I'll be saving $9.99 before the game I'm joining. lol

Cursed Item: Dogs

Description: You are carrying too many dogs.

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avr wrote:

To know how to break something, learn how to build it. And engineer as a PF skill is about civil engineering more than invention.

Aside from as fluff, can you actually do all that in PFS?

After my 4th Adventure, I will have one of them (Property Broker: People that are at your table can buy buildings with a 1 PP discount. If they do so, you get a +4 to your Dayjob check [Only once per table]).

After my 6th adventure, I'll have both of them (Criminal Activities: You get a +1 to all Dayjob checks. If you roll a Natural 1 on your Dayjob, you instead get 0 Gold for that day.)

I am still saving money for an Adamantine Sledge, but I should have enough at about level 3. Until level 5, I'll be dealing 4d6+9 damage. After level 5, I'll be dealing 6d6+12 Damage. (Power Attack and Shikigami Style). Vital strike at level 6 for 12d6+12 Damage. I'm pretty sure he can break a few walls down.

So aside from the fluff, yes I can. :)

Really? I thought Engineer was more building and inventing stuff, like engineering a gun or machinery into something new. I'm just looking to smash stuff into pieces. I liked the idea of Demolition, because I was going to get Criminal Underground and Property Broker. Basically convince people to buy lots of land which I had previously destroyed another business on. xD

So... Unfortunately Demolition count are listed on the Profession list. Because of this, I don't want to take any tanks in these skills due to Pathfinder Society legality, and having some trouble picking a Profession for my character.

The character is a rough guy who grew up on the wrong side of the street, solving his problems by beating people up instead of talking with them. He was later recruited by the Pathfinder Society and he is often called in to "break stuff" for them when they need it. He's got a bad habit of nicknaming people after the weapons they are using (having called an Archer "Arrow", a Shaman "Staff", a Witch "Claw", and a Bloodrager "Hammer" during his first adventure). He is also short, and has a small temper towards anyone who makes mentions his height. He is an anarchist at heart, and I'm currently torn between Grand Lodge or Liberties Edge at the moment due to his reckless behavior.

So... on the list of professions given on the Skill, what profession would be best for a "Demolitionist" style character?

Ferious Thune wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quickdraw would let you chuck and draw quickly
I think it's probably at best table variation whether or not quickdraw works with improvised weapons. I did a lot of searching putting together my thrown improvised weapon build and couldn't find anything definitive, so I've decided to assume it doesn't work and just build in a different solution.

It would require an additional 2 feats - Improvised Focus (Improvised Weapons count as Weapons for feats, and you count as having Weapon Focus for said weapons) along with the actual Quick Draw feat. That is 6 feats total for getting Dull Ioun Stones 'omph', which could also be used to give the same - if not more - amount of 'omph' to Shuikens/Daggers.

Did not know that it also gave +4 to-hit, my bad. I still believe that (if anything) only Manipulation should be banned, since Mimicry and the base feat don't really do anything other than make Improv more deadly.

So... I know that I do not have any stars, and I do not have much experience of actually playing Pathfinder, (Only had the past 2 years worth of experience, despite having collected the books and theory built characters during the full 10 years), but are there rules of how much damage a Rod and an Ioun Stone would actually deal?

They both seem like 1d2 weapons at best (becoming 1d6+4 weapons at best after a four feat investment), but is there a thread or list or actual rules to point to that would distinctly show the amount of damage these items would do? I guess the Ioun Stone could be used in a Sling, but then you get into the slippery slope that a Sling isn't an improvised weapon and wouldn't count towards Shikigami Style even if you used an Ioun Stone as ammunition.

A lot of the "+3" and "+4" items described seem to be really small items. The biggest item I have concern for is the Sledge. While there are no magical Sledge items available, it is still 4d6 damage at level 1 and upgrades to 6d6 damage at level 5 (Human is required, and a Class that gives Catch Off-Guard for free).

I could see Manipulation being banned, as this would prevent abuse from both ends of the spectrum, but I hope Shikigami Style and Mimicry are still available afterwards.

Any tips on a grapple focused Eidolon that grabs the foe(s) and positions them for a good zapping?

Hm... I guess I'll try something else, something more "Standard" then.

I think that going Twinned will give me the better combat control in the long run, as it opens more flexibility to my build and available options to what I want to be doing (although... Shooting "LIGHTNINGBOLT!"s at people would be fun...).

Anyway, this is what I've got so far:

Me-Zha and Nu-Zha (Placeholder Names)

Me-Zha - Twinned Summoner
> Race: Ifrit (Sunsoul | +2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Wis)

Level 12 Preview:
Strength: 18 || Dexterity: 14 || Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 10 || Wisdom: 10 || Charisma: 16

> Alternate Racial: Efreeti Magic (Replaces Spell-like Ability)
> Alternate Racial: Mostly Human (Alters Racial Types)
> Alternate Racial: Wildfire Heart (Replaces Energy Resistance)
> Alternate Racial: Fire Insight (Replaces Solar Affinity)

> Trait: Reactionary
> Trait: Loyalty across Lifetimes

> Level 4 Bonus: +1 Charisma
> Level 8 Bonus: +1 Strength
> Level 12 Bonus: +1 Strength

> Level 1 Feat: Combat Reflexes
> Level 3 Feat: Dirty Fighting
> Level 4 Feat: Paired Opportunist
> Level 5 Feat: Toughness
> Level 5 Feat: Improved Share Spell (Shared Feat from Eidolon)
> Level 7 Feat: Outflank
> Level 9 Feat: Broken Wing Gambit
> Level 11 Feat: Tandem Trip
> Level 12 Feat: Harder They Fall

Nu-Zha - Twinned Eidolon
> Race: Biped Eidolon (Twinned Subtype)

Level 12 Preview:
Strength: 22 || Dexterity: 19 || Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 7 || Wisdom: 10 || Charisma: 11

Hit Dice: 9 (d10; +9/+4 Base Attack Bonus)

> Level 5 Bonus: +1 Strength
> Level 10 Bonus: +1 Constitution

> Evolution Base: Skilled (Disguise)
> Evolution Base: Weapon Proficiency (All Simple)
> Evolution Base: Shared Slot (Level 8)
> Evolution Base: Extra Feat (Level 12)
> Evolution Base: 5/Magic DR (Level 12)
> Evolution (2p): Extra Feat
> Evolution (1p): Shared Evolution
> Evolution (2p): Extra Feat (Given to Summoner)
> Evolution (2p): Ability Score Increase +2 Dex
> Evolution (2p): Ability Score Increase +2 Con

> Level 1 Feat: Toughness
> Level 2 Feat: Combat Reflexes
> Level 3 Feat: Dirty Fighting
> Level 6 Feat: Power Attack
> Level 9 Feat: Improved Trip
> Level 11 Feat: Improved Reflex

So, the basic idea is that they're going to be battlefield control and stick together as much as possible - only separating if they need to have a larger AoE presence on the battlefield. They'll both be using the long-spear to poke people.

Being an Ifrit, I can Enlarge myself once-per-day and my Twinned Eidolon gains the ability to cast a Summoner Spell 1/Day (We will both be Enlarging during the boss fights for extra threat). Once I hit level 5 (and get touched by my Eidolon for the Extra Feat evolution), I'll be able to use Improved Spell Share to split my first level spells between us, making Enlarge person more common.

I haven't put up items on the build yet - because I don't know the budget or which slots will be given to which or even which slot will be the "Shared Slot".

What do you guys think?

Currently working on a "Tank"ing character(s) for an upcoming Emerald Spire Super-Dungeon group, and was wondering if you guys might be able to give me some advice regarding this concept. I am still working on the kinks, but the general idea is going into Melee (possible Dip into Fighter for Proficiency's) and using Compel Hostility to help control the enemies aggro between be and my Eidolon.

Instead of only one Fighter who runs around with AoE tripping things, it'll be two slightly lower level Fighters running around with AoE tripping things. While looking at the concept, two really big archetypes caught my attention; the Twinned Summoner and the Storm Caller Summoner.

The Twinned Summoner seems like the obvious choice for this. It gains shared Teamwork Feats at level 4, giving feat options like Coordinated Makeovers and Tandem Trip, along with other teamwork options. Also, the Twinned Eidolon can pick up extra bonus feats by spending Evolution points, since it'll be using a weapon rather than Natural Attacks.

The Storm Caller is less obvious, and while it doesn't have the Teamwork Feats and shenanigans that the Twinned Summoner can pull off, it has Call Lightning which scales at 1d6 1st level and every 2 levels thereafter, and can "Ark" the lightning between him and his Eidolon as a Standard Action to strike everyone between them.

Any advice? Twinned Summoner or Storm Caller seem better for the "Tank"ing roll with the Summoner? Or should I just go with a more straight-forward "Tank"ing roll? If so, what other options would there be regarding this?

Also, unsure if you're playing with the Errata or not, but you can't reduce Parry/Repost's cost below 1 now. So you'll have to pay for it no matter what you do.

@Seasaur - Firearms specifically call out Swift or Free actions for their Full-Round attack requirements, but I am sure you have other things you would prefer doing with your swift action, and swift actions would only allow 2 attacks per round instead of your full Full-Round attack (Attack > Swift > Attack > Run out of Swifts).

That being said, Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges will reduce your loading time down to a Swift Action at the trade off of increasing your Misfire Chance by 1 (Oh, look at that, Gun Chemist ignores this Misfire Chance because it's an Alchemical Cartridge! :D). And it's only a 3 level dip into Musket Master for that same reload speed. I know the 12g per shot seems expensive, but keep in mind that Gunsmith reduces the cost per shot to 10% (1g 2s).

My apologies, the Archetype was called Alchemical Sapper.
Also, the main reason why I'm going Gunslinger/Alchemist, is because the Gunslinger doesn't offer much after Level 5. Heck, I'd think about switching after level 3 just because I only need the reload. xD

No worries @Seasaur, I was actually wanting to make a Musket Master/Gun Chemist multiclass. After level 5, there isn't anything else that Gunslinger offers, so going into Alchemy for some fun stuff seems like a valid choice. Another choice being Grenadier or Abolitionist archetypes. The former for being able to mix Alchemical weapons into your bullets, and the latter for a bigger KABOOM with every bomb.

I hope you enjoy whatever it is that you're planning for the Bombs you plan to sling, hope you found what you're looking for.

@Seasaur - Do all of these questions apply to the Gun Chemist archetype? If so, keep in mind that guns are not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim.

Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target's touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms have a maximum range of five range increments.

The Gun Chemist archetype augments the ammunition used, not the weapon. Therefor, as long as you're using a Gun, you can still use Deadly Aim and other such feats despite targeting Touch AC.

Empty Quiver Style and the "Empty Quiver" feats only allow you to attack with the Weapon itself - not the ammunition. You're basically using your gun as a giant baseball bat, instead of using it to shoot things. Alchemical Ordinance augments the ammunition - not the weapon.

Basically, Gun Chemists calculate damage using the following formula:

[WeaponDamage]+[Bonuses] B+P Damage and [Bomb]+[Modifier] Fire damage.

Example: (Early Musket: Lvl 5 Musket Master + Level 1 Gun Chemist; 18 DEX, 22 INT; Feats: Point Blank, Precision Shot, Deadly Aim)

1d12+1(Point-Blank)+4(Deadly Aim)+4(DEX) Blungeoning and Piercing Damage, plus 1d6+6(INT) Fire Damage.

Note: Deadly Aim does NOT count towards the fire damage dealt by Alchemical Ordinance, and there is no way (as far as I know) to add Deadly Aim to Splash damage.

@Vyhs - Yeah, basically if any class skills just list Craft, Perform, or Profession without specifying which ones, you gain them all. As a bard, you'll pretty much want as many Perform skills as you have Versatile Performance - and in my opinion, sing and orator are the best versatile performances to have followed by Dance on later levels. Basically, you're a Skill Monkey that reduces the number of skills he needs, neat right?! :D

Regarding agnostic, that is still a viable choice. Nearly 90% of all Bards and Skalds have Shelyn as their Patron, mostly due to fluff and mechanics because Shelyn is the deity of art, music, and beauty. I'd love to see your concept for an Agnostic bard - Especially if it is an Arcane Healer archetype. Nothing is funnier than an agnostic bard channeling positive energy to heal people without the help of a god! xD

Other traits you might like include:
* Voice of Velvet (Race: Human - Vudrani), +1 to Diplomacy and Perform (Orator)
* Tattooed Focus (Race: Human - Varisian), +2 to any one Perform skill
* Stage Magic (Equipment), +2 to any Perform by expending an Alchemical Item.
* Dilettante Artist (Race: Elf), +1 to any one Perform and Diplomacy.
* Caravan Nomad (Race: Kitsune), +1 to all Bluff and Perform checks.

As Wonderstell has already pointed out, you already have all Perform skills as a Bard. (Unless there is an Archetype that trades this away, which I am unfamiliar with). If your character's patron is Shelyn, may I suggest the Intense Artist trait instead? You get +1 to two separate Performance checks, instead of just one.

blahpers wrote:

Yes. I see no rule stating nor implying otherwise.

Whisperer in Darkness, I do not understand your answers. This is a Rules Question, not a PFS question, AFAIK; price never comes up in RAW for full pouch; and unless the hybridization funnel is disallowed entirely in PFS, there's no basis for treating the result as unusable for this purpose.

I feel like I have somehow misread this or there has been some form of misunderstanding. To clarify, this is partially a PFS related question. Though I am still fairly inexperienced when it comes to PFS rules and regulations. Is there a PFS restriction to how much a duplicated item can cost before it is duplicated? I've never heard this referenced anywhere before.

Diego Rossi wrote:
@TheMonkeyFish Itching powder can't be hybridized.

I never Hybridized Itching Powder... I Full Pouched Itching Powder... This was BEFORE I was made aware to the changes of Full Pouch on the rules clarification page. I don't believe I said that I hybridized Itching Powder during this thread?

I already learned that Itching Powder and the like can't be Hybridized in the past - it was my first time using the item at the table and the DM pulled me aside to ask what item I was using. He then told me I was using it incorrectly, and I adjusted my play style since then.

I'm uncertain how my previous posts suggested otherwise.

I had been working on a Basic Alchemical Guide for a while now, but I've never gotten around to finishing it... I'll post some of my highlights right now for you though:

+ (Sounds like you're playing Homebrew?) Make sure to take points in Craft Alchemy to "purchase" your items by crafting them. This makes everything much cheaper and much more manageable in cost as long as you can reliably meet the Crafting DCs to craft them within a week of prep time. In PFS, only Alchemists and Investigators can use this - but this isn't PFS.

+ Also, if you plan on taking Herbs (a lot of them are very useful) make sure you take Profession: Herbology for grabbing good Herb items. Trust me, some of them are really good! (Enlarge Person/Reduce Person shrooms are my favorite).

+ Master Alchemist and Instant Alchemy are nearly essential. The former because there are Alchemical Items you simply cannot craft without it, and the later is because you'll never be able to get Swift Alchemy through a Class Feature. In PFS, Master Alchemist was restricted to Alchemist or Poisoner Rogue - Good thing this isn't PFS!

+ Throw Anything and Catch Off-Guard are nearly essential for the build. Additionally, Splash Weapon Mastery is required because almost all of your ranged weapons are going to have a pitiful 10ft. or 20ft. range to them without Spellcasting Support - so Far Shot for Splash Weapons is really nice, especially when you're only targeting touch.

+ Concentrated Splash allows you to use powerful Alchemical Weapons without hurting your melee teammates - and you get the plus side of receiving a 50% bonus to the damage dealt. Great for weapons like Slime Grenade and Artokus's Fire.

+ Firebug is a free +1 to your attacks with Splash Weapons. Trust me, you'll love it!

+ Alchemical Items SUCK as a form of control, don't grab items like Itching Powder or Sneezing Powder. Focus on the Alchemical Items that deal damage, provide buffs, or heal your party.

+ You're going to want the basic Nomage items - such as Impact Vials and Sunsticks - that mimic popular first level spells and/or cantrips. Make sure you have some emergency Antiplagues and Antivenoms due to the abscense of Cure Disease and Cure Poison spells respectively. Specialty smoke pellet is going to help with Invisible Creatures due to lack of Glitterdust. Basically - if the item mimics a useful spell, you'll want to grab a few of them.

+ A lot of Alchemical Weapons that have Splash Damage lack the Splash keyphrase, so ask your GM if they'll allow you to add the Splash keyphrase to these items (because they ARE Liquid and DO splash) so that they can be used with Hybridization Funnel.

+ Oh, Hybridization Funnel also helps with "magical" DPS at higher levels.

+ Suggested Alchemical Items:
* Troll styptic (100gp / 25 Check) is going to be your most cost effective healing without Magical Healing. Fast healing 2 for 2d4 rounds, but you'll have to succeed a DC 15 Fort Save or become sicken during the duration of the healing. Hint: This shouldn't be used during combat.
* Blood-Boiling Pill (75gp / 25 Check) This item gives a +2 Alchemical bonus to Initiative Checks and Saves vs. Cold effects for 8 hours or until you swallow a Blood-Chilling Pill. The only downside is that you take 1.5x damage from Bleeding attacks, so don't swallow the red pill if you're fighting enemies with bleed abilities.
* Alchemical Blanches/Balms (Varies / Varies) This isn't so much a single item, as it is a variable amount of multiple items which all help players overcome Damage Resistance early on. Without magic in your setting, this is going to be your only way of dealing with Incorpreal Creatures and other similarly "immune" effect Creatures.
* Alchemical Bombs/Weapons (Varies / Varies) Same as the listed above, this isn't a single weapon but multiple weapons. You're going to want to carry around the basics - Acid Flask, Alchemist Fire, Liquid Ice; and if you're real interested in them - Minneral Bombs, Artokus's Fire, and stuff like that.

Firebug wrote:
Which low DC alchemicals have you been Hybrid-ing? I mostly just use it for Acid/Alkali because they are the cheapest and uncommonly resisted.

Originally, I was throwing Full Pouch'ed Itching Powders (DC12 Direct or DC 8 Splash Fortitude Saves at the beginning of each turn for 1d4+1 Rounds. Each time the Fort save is failed, it is Staggered for that round). I would then switch to Full Pouch'ed Artokus's Fire + Slime Grenades for 2d6 Fire and 2d6 Acid +7 Damage (Alchemist), plus 2d6 Fire if they didn't spend a Full Round to save against it. In this case, the Full Pouch spell was used just to save and conserve money with high level Alchemical items.

After the game, I was told by one of the players that they were unsure if I was allowed to use Hybridization Funnel items as targets for the Full Pouch spell. I asked a few other people in the group and got mixed responses, the highest ranking saying Table Variance when I asked them - which is why I was asking the Forums for a RAW answer (if one is available).

It wasn't until that night when I had learned that Full Pouch was nerfed. I have (a lot) of Alchemical Items with low-DC checks which I was relying on Full Pouch to help enhance. Unfortunately, due to this, my pockets are filled with junk that can't be used at higher level play. (Or it can, but you would be wasting your turn).

(Also, I was told that I can have a second Spell Book for Alchemical Formula's? I'm currently worried about restricted space on my current Spell book, and if this is true, I won't have to "retrain" the Full Pouch spell).

Firebug wrote:
TheMonkeyFish wrote:
I already have to dump about 400gp worth of pretty much ruined Alchemical Items due to a change to the spell that has not yet been posted on the HTML version of the site yet. lol
What change? I can't find any FAQ, Campaign Clarifications, Additional Resources change to the spell.


Stephen Wight wrote:

Hi, Chris,

Someone just pointed out to me that Arcane Anthology is missing from the HTML version of the Campaign Clarifications. Full Pouch gets a lot stronger without the clarification text!

Apparently, if what I am told is to be correct, the Full Pouch spell uses the lower of the two Save DCs rather than the Higher of the two Save DCs. So all of my 10 DC and lower Alchemical items that I commonly used as a combo for the spell stopped being effective. lol

Although, I understand the reasoning for it having been denied. It makes sense that a spell like this might have an Error 402 when attempting to use it on a modified Alchemical item.

Whisperer in Darkness wrote:
For me the formula was quite clear and added weight to the game balance argument which many home game GMs consider. This is a public post for you and others to read. Remember to multiply before addition, A and B are the price of the two alchemical items using algebraic symbols.
willuwontu wrote:
Whisperer in Darkness wrote:
Secondly, Full Pouch does not allow the more expensive items and use of the hybridization funnel increased the price of the item and moved it into the forbidden range of the spell effect as new price is 1.5*A+B where A is the more expensive item.
Full pouch has no price cap, it allows the duplication of any consumable alchemical item.

I think the reason pointed out by Willuwontu explains my confusion for the formula more than anything else. It isn't that the formula doesn't make sense, it is just that I don't see why the formula was included.

(Secretly wishing that Paizo would release a reasonable Spell or Item that helped fix the DC problem for Alchemical Items that doesn't get changed later down the line.)

The edited post is even more confusing now... Considering I have no clue what the formula you posted is for...

That being said, PFS has different GMs at each game you play. This is the reason why uniform and written rules need to be in place for Society games - so that there is as little "GM Description" between each game.

Though, based on what you have pointed out RAW (without using the confusing formula you posted... and without adjusting for being nice), it seems the spell would fail when cast on a Hybridization item.

No worries, I'll just remove the Spell from my Spellbook with retraining rules. I already have to dump about 400gp worth of pretty much ruined Alchemical Items due to a change to the spell that has not yet been posted on the HTML version of the site yet. lol

Whisperer in Darkness wrote:
NO(very close to RAW) - as the "new" alchemical item isn't listed in any resource. The hybridization has made it unique and the duplicate is randomly one of the originals with a 24 hr effectiveness.

Just curious, but how did you come to this conclusion for RAW? If the interpretation for this case is that the item isn't listed in any resource, wouldn't that mean the spell fails completely? I'm okay with the spell falling, but I don't see anything that would imply the second half of this statement.

Whisperer in Darkness wrote:
I'd point out the obvious error in Full Pouch but it's a moot point for this thread.

What error? :o

The title of the thread asks the question. Basically, can the Spell "Full Pouch" duplicate the items that are created/combined with the item "Hybridization Funnel".

For example - After taking the 10 minutes required to mix an Alchemist's Fire with Acid Flask would deal 1d6 Fire Damage and 1d6 Acid Damage, with 1 Fire and 1 Acid splash Damage.

This combined item - the Alchemist's Fire Acid Flask - could it then be duplicated by the effects of Full Pouch?

Thassilonian Specialist seems like a great choice for the Bloatmage, considering you get even more spells/day at the cost of completely trading the 2 opposite schools as null and void. Unfortunately, it is a boon from a high level book, so it isn't something readily available for the prestige class to take.

That being said, Transmutation seems like the best bang for your buck, considering it gives you 2 free Con points that can be used for leeching. Combine with Fortifying Leeches, and you will probably be the thickest caster on the field - pun intended.

Additionally, Wizards seem to be the most alluring to be a Bloatmage because the qualify after 5th level, making them 1 level ahead in the Prestige Class than other options, and the Bloatmage is a level dependent prestige class. So the less class levels you take beforehand, the better.

Lastly, the best build type for Bloatmage appears to be Blaster, simply due to the sheer number of bonus spells they are able to grab. I'd say Evocation School us another good choice, giving them +2/+3 Damage to your damage Spells before becoming a Bloatmage. Admixture focus gives you the ability to bypass DR/abuse Vulnerability a number of times equal to 3+Int per day.

The Prestige class appears to benefit most from the Arcanist class in this regards - gaining that extra +1 damage before transitioning to Bloatmage and gaining the Spontaneous Caster benefits.

Just my 2 cents during my lunch break.

I have no idea what an AP is... but have you considered Barbarian? If a Barbarian has any problems with someone/something, they smash that person/thing until the problem doesn't exist anymore.

(Edit) Can you clarify what you mean by "AP"?

So... I just realized how funny an Arcanist with the School Savant Archetype would be with the Teleportation School of Magic (School Savant specifically states your aloud to have Specialization Schools if you so choose). At level 1, you can teleport 5 ft. per 2 levels of Wizard (min 5 ft.) as a swift action. Additionally, at level 5, you can spend an Arcane Point to get another swift action teleportation.

Yep, I think I'll be making my Exchange character into a Bloatmage now.

Actually... That does bring up a few questions regarding the Bloatmage's selections for classes before the Prestige class. Considering it has to be an Arcane Spellcaster (level progression and blood points are only for Arcane Spellcasters), there are a lot to choose from.

Obviously, spontaneous casters are the "best" in terms of Blood Points and their expenditure, but a Transmutation School Wizard gives a much needed +2 to Con (or a different Physical stat if desired) so they can reliably leech drain themselves before purchasing the Fortifying Leeches. School Savant Arcanist also gains this benefit, but with the additional flexibility of being a "prepared Spontaneous" Spellcaster.

What do you guys think is the best choice for a Bloatmage's starting classes?

@Eserioth - Unfortunately, there is no Lycanthrope race in the Pathfinder setting unless you use Third party or homebrew. There is the Lycanthrope Template (CR+1), but you'll have to have a very accepting DM if they allow Templates on Player Characters.

Your only other option is to emulate transformation through Spellcasting or Class Features. For example, the Alchemist can have a Jackyl/Hyde build which focuses on Natural Attacks using the Beastmorph archetype, and then emulate the Lycanthropy transformation at 7th level with the Master Chemist Prestige Class. At least, that is how I was able to get my Ulfen Alchemist to do it (who was obsessed with the idea of unlocking the 'Lycanthropy genes' in his DNA).

Another choice you have is Oracle Levels with the Lycanthropy curse, giving you the Wild Empathy ability at level 1, the "beast shape" spell for your transformation at level 10, and your DR/Silver at level 15.

There are a lot of class archetypes that emulate Lycanthropy, but there is no "legit" way to obtain it without the Template and DM approval.

@gnoams - Don't get me wrong, the Blossoming Light archetype for the Cleric looks extremely powerful... but I was hoping to be an Oracle because thematic reasons for the character. Also, going Cleric would prevent me from taking Embrace Destiny.

@Sir Belmont the Valiant, @DeathlessOne, @SuperJedi224, @BENSLAYER - Unfortunately, the Ring of Resistance is not PFS legal. So I'll probably have to skip the Shawl of Life in order to keep my resistance high enough to save against stuff. It would be nice if this item became PFS legal, it would open up a lot of builds.

@Magda Luckbender - I suppose that is a valid reason against the idea of over specialization... It is true that the main gimmick for this build was Channel Energy and full spell progression for Divine Spells, which is why I was going for the high Charisma. Would you think a Divine Expression build would work with this style of build? I'd really like to play an Oracle of Shelyn, but Fateful Channel just seems too good... I wish Mogdh gave Fateful Channel, then it would make this choice much easier, lol.

@Temperans - PFS Character. lol

@Ryze Kuja - I wish Archives of Nethys had this. A list of all the PFs legal Channel Energy feats and their required deity would be awesome. I'm still sad Mogdh can't give Fateful Channel.

@Gray Warden - Oh, I forgot about those items! Thanks for reminding me. I'll take a look to see if any of them would fit with the build this character is going for, thank you.

@Rath the Brown - Already watched it a couple weeks ago.


@Magda Luckbender, @Gray Warden - I am currently torn between joining the Silver Crusade or the Liberty's Edge faction for this character... Which do you think would be the better faction for him? If I do end up making him a Blossoming Light, then I'll be making him a Silver Crusade hands down, but want your opinions on what faction you think he would be better suited for.

He was an orphaned boy that lost his home to war, and was adopted by a kindly Gathlain from the first world. He was raised into a young adult (approx. 19-20 years old) before the Gathlain returned him to the mortal world to 'be happy with his own kind' after noticing he was aging much faster than the other children of the first world. Despite this, he still feels an extremely powerful draw towards the first world and fey-like creatures.

He is a gentle and innocent spirit, often to gullible and naive for his own good. He is drawn towards music and dance, and enjoys the festivities of the world. He hates to see the suffering of the world, and does everything he can to prevent pain from occurring to other people, often putting himself in harms way to prevent someone else from feeling the pain.


Another Build Concept:
STR: 8 | DEX: 12 | CON: 15 | INT: 12 | WIS: 8 | CHA: 19

Primary Class: Oracle (Spirit Guide Archetype)
Secondary Class: Bard (Mute Musician) - 1 level dip
Patron Deity: Shelyn

Feats: Fey Foundling (Human), Selective Channel (Level 1), Extra Revelation (Level 3), Divine Expression (Level 5), Fey Performance (Level 7), Quick Channel (Level 9), Reactive Channel (Level 11)

Primary Purchases: Malleable Symbol (10,000gp), Phylactery of Positive Channeling (11,000gp), Ioun Stone +2 CHA (8,000gp), Cloak of Resistance (variable), Belt of Constitution (variable).

The First Build for Comparison (w/ Minor Changes):
STR: 7 | DEX: 10 | CON: 14 | INT: 10 | WIS: 12 | CHA: 20
Primary Class: Oracle (Spirit Guide Archetype) - All Levels
Patron Deity: Pharasma (in character, also pays homage to Mogdh)

Feats: Fey Foundling (Human), Selective Channel (Level 1), Extra Revelation (Level 3), Fateful Channel (Level 5), Alignment Channel - Good (Level 7), Purifying Channel (Level 9), Quick Channel (Level 11)

Primary Purchases: Malleable Symbol (10,000gp), Phylactery of Positive Channeling (11,000gp), Ioun Stone +2 CHA (8,000gp), Cloak of Resistance (variable), Belt of Constitution (variable).

@Magda Luckbender - Thank you for your post, I hadn't even seen an item like Shawl of Life Keeping before. Fortunately, I will not be using any magical weapons on my character, and will focus primarily on using Sanctuary and body-blockers to protect my character over magic armor. So because of this, I'll probably getting the Phylactery of Positive Channeling closer to level 7 or 8 depending on gold intake after purchasing 'essentials'.

So... here is my build thus far:

STR: 7 | DEX: 10 | CON: 14 | INT: 10 | WIS: 12 | CHA: 20

Primary Class: Oracle (Spirit Guide Archetype) - All Levels
Patron Deity: Pharasma (in character, also pays homage to Mogdh)

Feats: Fey Foundling (Human), Selective Channel (Level 1), Purifying Channel (Level 3), Fateful Channel (Level 5), Quick Channel (Level 7), Alignment Channel - Good (Level 9), Reactive Channel (Level 11)

Primary Purchases: Shawl of Life Keeping (1,000gp), Malleable Symbol (10,000gp), Phylactery of Positive Channeling (11,000gp), Ioun Stone +2 CHA (8,000gp), Cloak of Resistance (variable), Belt of Constitution (variable).

If I'm able to get enough money for it, I'll probably be selling the Ioun stone for the staff that gives +4 Charisma.

Whatch'all think?

@Firebug - Interesting combo... Though I am not really interested in Irori or Ki Channeling themes for this build. I am also pretty set on the Double Life Oracle Spirit Guide (might change the Spirit later on if I begin healing too much and have too little extra to do).

@Temperans - I've looked at a lot of those, and was thinking heavily into taking the Bless Equipment feat. Touch a weapon at the beginning of an encounter - and will also be getting an extra 2 rounds of benefits when I purchase the headgear. Unfortunately, considering the level dip into bard and Divine Expression, I'll be 1/2 level lower for my Channel Energy, so I'm unsure if that'll effect anything.

Unfortunately, Channel Variance requires Domain, which Oracles don't have meaning they can't qualify for it.

Contingent Channeling looks like it might be a good feat too. Would you guys consider Reactive Channel being necessary for this build?

He'll mostly be taking damage from the Lifelink skill and Shield spells, as he will mostly be protected by Sanctuary and not standing directly in the front lines of the assault. Quick Channel is an obvious yes, but I am unsure about Reactive Channel.

@Deathless One - Huh... I've never seen Imbue with Spell Ability before, it seems like an interesting 4th level spell. I might look into that one and ask the fighter if they might be into helping mitigating damage. I know that I'll probably be keeping Sanctuary on myself earlier in the career because combat is scary.

Alignment Channel seems interesting... To clarify, it effects only outsiders of that alignment? Would Purifying Flames not work against them when I deselect them with Channel Heal?

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