An army of trolls, commanded by hags, is attacking the party. They've baracaded themselves into a room in an ancient dungeon with 200ft of stairs. The trolls are taking the quick way down (falling 200ft) and the party has a level 10 Kinetcist that's filled the whole set of stairs with Etheric Shards.
Every other round a new troll bloodrager falls down the shaft, being shredded to pieces on the way down. Then it slowly stands back up. These trolls all have protection from energy active, so they have a buffer to prevent their regeneration from stopping. However, there's enough etheric shards around that every time the trolls regain consciousness and try to stand up or advance towards the party they are likely to fall back over. Meanwhile the hags are just about to show up. I'm excited for next session.
My party is in Book 3 of ROTR, I've modified a bunch of things so Lucretia is still around and is a Sorcerer 16/MR5 Archmage and the party of level 10s is about to poke her really hard with a stick.
I've got a couple of outs in mind but things could be dicey here. Worst case scenerio and I have to give them their first rank of Mythic Power early after the TPK.
I made some house rules for this idea a while back. I did the opposite though, on Odd levels you gained 1 level of abilities of your secondary class (not their growths though; you always use your primary class to determine bab, skills, saves, and HP). You do gain their proficiencies and class skills though.
Similar to VMC you gave up half your feats; but also reduced one of your saving throw progressions provided your main class had 2 good saving throws. You also don’t gain a favored class bonus unless you are a half-elf with multitalented. I also have a house rule where your caster level is determined by your total levels in spellcasting classes: this doesn’t give you more spells per day or higher level spells but it does give you better concentration, spell penetration, and spell variables.
For example, a Bard/Bloodrager has 3/4 BAB, d8 HP, and 6+Int skill points. They gain both the bard and Bloodrager armor and weapon proficiencies. They can cast Bloodrager spells in medium or light armor but can only cast bard spells in light armor. During character creation you choose to lower one of the bards good saving throw progressions to bad progression, so either will or reflex. You only gain a feat at levels 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19. Every odd level grants you one level of abilities from the Bloodrager class. At 7th level when you gain access to Bloodrager spells you cast them as if you were 7th level for determining all variables of casting (including concentration and spell penetration), but only know spells as a 4th level Bloodrager.
Edit: I have house rules that give every class two good saving throws. This makes it so that every class pays something to gain these bonuses.
Edit 2: The reason I reduce the saving throws progression is to make provide additional weaknesses to characters to balance out their additional strengths. This makes it so that even casters who don’t need as many feats to function are paying a real cost. If anyone designs a real monster with these rules I should have two saving throws to go after with my encounter design. Most martial classes grant extra feats, so they shouldn’t be paying as steep a price either.
So, believe it or not, my problem with Ogres isn’t the murder. It’s the rape and the deformity. As discussed, removing the rape from the canon is probably for the best. That’s a theme better to be handled from a table to table perspective.
However, lots of people are born with various physical deformities that by no means make them evil by nature. Using deformity as a short hand for irredeemably evil is lazy writing pure and simple. Everything else about Ogres, from their eager sadism to their ready cowardice conveys their nature far better than just making them gross and rapey.
Personally, I prefer more grey fiction - as does my table. My ogres do kill people and kidnap them, frequently feeding them to their dire goats, but they’re also an oppressed native tribe of Varisia. The folks of Turtleback ferry have laid claim to their lands, forced them from the woods and into the barren mountains. It’s more of a colonial vs natives conflict rather than one of good vs evil.
That said, I do understand the appeal of a straightforwardly evil creature. If the 2e version of RoTR had been released when my campaign was beginning I’d have likely kept the ogres the way they were.
The shadow spells are really a whole pile of house rulings. I’m with the others on shadow spells not needing components, though exactly how 20% of the time or 20% effectiveness works is an interesting question. For example, the Pit spell from earlier. I’d have personally just made the pit 1/5th as deep instead of only catching them 20% of the time.
My personal suggestion is to keep a tab of notes as the GM for any house rulings you make on the shadow spells to keep the consistent.
I’d like to note that I personally dislike % chances, so I would likely house rule it to only working 1/5 turns. I do this with the Mesmerist bold stare that lets the Mesmerist cast mind affecting spells on mindless creatures, only allowing the effect to work every other turn. This removes some of the drama from a scene, but does make things more predictable and I think it makes things feel better to play.
I'd like to note that the reason dipping worked better in 3.0/3.5 was because classes had fewer bonuses on level up. Lots of times you would encounter "dead" levels in those games where you didn't gain any new abilities. Lots of abilities are front loaded into the first few levels of a class, so dipping let you make your levels count.
3.5 especially had extremely powerful prestige classes, so typically you would only play your base class until you could get into a prestige class that did the job better or unlocked you something cool. Then you'd use that to build the prerequsites for your next prestige class.
@Joyant Jeezebel - Yeah, that player is a bit frustrating. They don't want help with the build. They pick a fluff idea and make all their mechanical choices around their fluff...with no thoughts given to the effectiveness of the resulting character. I pretty much just design my encounters around the party having -1 character and any time this player happens to contribute it a happy little accident. Unfortunately their choice of fluff this time doesn't really provide anything to the party it doesn't already have through other characters, so its hard for me to give them chances to shine. They're currently a hybrid druid / bard. They've basically dumped all their combat stats to have maxed out Wisdom and Charisma, they took the animal domain and have 4 bard levels so their animal companion is hopeless behind curve even with Boon Companion, our Hunter has access to higher level Druid spells than this guy, and the only thing they really have going for them that the other members of the party don't cover is their wild shape (which is also 4 levels behind the curve due to the bard levels).
I've just learned to live with it but as a result anytime someone comes to my table and is like "I wanna multiclass" I give them a look and go "are you sure we can't find you an archetype? Or maybe look at the house rules I adopted from VMC? Please?"
I have a player that makes the worst multiclass characters imaginable and I have to houserule half a dozen things to keep them relevant. So my personal, extremely biased, suggestion is that you play mono-class when doing a full divine caster unless you are going for a specific prestige class.
Talk with your GM about the Alternate Capstones from Chronicle of Legends if your campaign goes to 20 since this gives full casters like the cleric an actual capstone ability. Which discourages this one level dip "nonsense" (I am mildly bitter).
Into a heavily augmented Book 3 of Rise of the Runelords. Lucretia has been augmented into a mythic threat and is only about a month away from drowning the region and unleashing Black Maga upon the land. Meanwhile the party also has to balance keeping towns safe from an order of monks enforcing poverty upon the villages and towns in south central Varisia (led by Tsudo who escaped book 1) and preventing the ogres from joining the giant's army (Ogres have been heavily reworked in my campaign to be less gross and awful. Instead they're very goat like and have extreme spell resistance, the giants want them as shock troops).
My party has gained access to a fey magical item workshop full of eccentric gnomes. They craft unique items on commission, all their items come at half market price but also have thematic downsides.
Rafi’s Propeller Cap reduces her total weight (but not mass) to 1/10th her normal weight while worn. As a result she can jump vertically and horizontally equally well (normally vertical jumps are quite difficult), and Rafi does not suffer fall damage while wearing this cap. This cap can provide her with up to a +20 to Jump checks in exchange for a penalty to her CMD equal to half the bonus she gained (max of -10) the following round.
Gnomish Downsides: Wearing the Propeller Cap causes her to be treated as a Diminutive Creature for the purposes of being blown away by the wind, for CMD (lowering her CMD by 2), and for any similar effect. Additionally, the propeller’s blades continue to spin after jumping until the beginning of her next turn, during this time she cannot share squares with any other creature or else they’ll get bonked by the propeller.
Requirements: 8,550gp Craft Gnomish Item, Jump, Feather Fall
This ring allows Zarzuken to transform into any man-made object of which he is aware as a standard action. Zarzuken is aware of an object if he, or anyone else in the group, can accurately describe how the item works in detail at the moment of transformation. This requires a relevant skill check (typically a knowledge, craft, or profession check) with the DC necessary to successfully craft the item (or describe it for a knowledge check). Zarzuken can transform into an object that is up to one size category larger than himself for every 5 levels he possesses. The object may weigh up to his weight multiplied by his level.
Zarzuken retains his own Hit Points while in this other form, and receives the broken condition under certain circumstances. These include: being reduced to below ½ his HP, being disabled with the disable device check (DC is 10 + Zarzuken’s Level), or being broken with a strength check (DC is 10 + Zarzuken’s Level). If already Broken, Zarzuken can be “destroyed” under certain circumstances. These include: being reduced to 0 HP, being successfully disabled twice, or being broken twice by strength checks. If Zarzuken is ever destroyed he automatically transforms back into Gnome form at a negative HP that places him 1 stabilization check away from death.
While transformed in this way Zarzuken’s speed becomes 0ft and he can no longer control the direction of his floating disc. He does not need to eat, breathe, or sleep while in this form but he also cannot rest in this form as he cannot sleep. He gains hardness equal to the typical material the relevant item is made from (typically Wood: 5, Stone: 8, or Metal: 10). Zarzuken suffers a -5 penalty to his initiative checks, AC, Reflex saves, and Dexterity based skill checks while transformed. While transformed he may be targeted by spells that affect objects, and cannot be targeted by effects that target creatures. For the duration, Zarzuken’s senses are replaced with 5ft of blindsense per level and telepathy (contact only); he cannot speak in this form. Zarzuken can only cast spells in this form if they have no verbal, somatic, or material components (Eschew Materials allows him to ignore cheap or free material components).
Zarzuken can operate any moving parts of an object which he becomes as if he had the appropriate power source at hand. The force he can apply is based on his strength. When transforming into larger objects he gains an increase to his strength. Transforming into a small object provides no strength bonus. As a medium object Zarzuken has +4 Strength, as a Large Object Zarzuken has +12 strength, as a Huge Object Zarzuken has +20 strength, and lastly as a Gargantuan object Zarzuken has +28 Strength. If the machine can be powered by outside forces (such as wind, water, or muscle power rather than an internal steam engine) then other party members may assist if they can provide those forces.
Gnomish Downside: Zarzuken must remain in his transformed state for a minimum of one minute. After that he may transform back into a Gnome as a standard action. Whenever he transforms back into a gnome he must spend an equal amount of time untransformed before he can transform again. Zarzuken’s transformations take on aspects of their previous forms; a boat may be decorated with mining equipment if the previous transformation was an industrial drill.
Requirements 10,800gp; Craft Gnomish Item, Polymorph Any Object
This item doubles Sylvenmyst’s weight, doubling the damage he takes from falling. As a standard action, Zellana can activate this item to deploy a series of up to 2 balloons per character level (max of 40). Each Balloon reduces the fall damage that Sylvenmyst would suffer by 1d6 (to a minimum of 0 damage).
Gnomish Downside: These balloons are fragile. Whenever Sylvenmyst or Zellana take damage an equal number of balloons pop. Additionally, while Sylvenmyst’s weight is doubled they cannot swim without passing a DC20 swim check. Instead they automatically sink to the bottom (but can walk along the bottom of watery areas at half speed). This can also cause her to be unable to walk over fragile surfaces.
Requirements 4,350gp; Craft Gnomish Item, Feather Fall, Lead Anchor
OK, the spontaneous caster has [slightly] more spells and can use their spells known in any combination, which is great. But they are one level behind in getting access to 2nd and higher level spells, which is dreadful.
What seals the deal for me in favour of prepared casters is spontaneous casters is the latter can only ever use their spells known without items. Divine prepared casters are particularly good as they have immediate access to every spell on their list.
Access to the spells one level later is painful, but that’s how much value I place on being able to use your spells in any combination. I will give the divine lists credit for giving you the whole list for prepared casting, but as you mentioned items do exist. Scrolls, potions, staffs, and a mnemonic vestment can go a long way to solving your (non-combat) versatility problems as a spontaneous caster.
End of the day it’s just a preference thing. 9th level casters are poweful regardless of casting method by nature of being 9th level casters. I was just offering my opinion as someone who frequently plays divine characters.
1: All classes (and monsters) have two good saving throws and a minimum of 4 skill points per level.
2: Whenever anyone rolls HP you can reroll if the result is equal to or less than your constitution modifier (creatures with higher constitution modifiers can break the cap of their hit dice, so a sorcerer with 24 con always rolls a “7” on their D6.
3: Your caster level is based on your total level in classes that grant spellcasting. This only improves concentration, spell penetration, and the individual components of spells that grant improvements based on level (like range, damage, etc) it doesn’t increase your spells known or spells per day.
4: All creatures receive Dirty Fighting as a bonus feat at BAB 1; easing access to combat maneuver feats and giving martials more options when flanking.
5: All creatures choose two skills at level 1; these skills always receive a bonus skill point each level. The chosen skills are based on the creatures life. One of these skills must be a knowledge skill, the other must be a skill that is typically not used in combat (such as appraise, linguistics, survival etc) or a profession, craft, or perform skill.
6: Bows, Crossbows, and Firearms are reworked. Crossbows and Firearms have an “armor penetration” stat that allows them to bypass a certain amount of the enemies armor and/or natural armor. For example a light crossbow has armor penetration 4, decreasing enemy AC by up to 4 against that attack. Armor penetration is halved every range increment beyond the first. Crossbows have the most armor penetration, firearms have the second most, and bows don’t have anyway. Damage and ranges have also been adjusted.
7: Familiars gain their master’s feats and use their master’s caster level to determine the power of any ex, su, or spell like abilities the familiar possesses.
8: Mesmerist buffs: painful stare improves damage at every odd level. Mental Potency increases the HD limit for Mesmerist spells by 1/2 their class level. Masterful tricks are unlocked at 10th level instead of 12th level.
9: Ranger Buffs: Favorite enemy is now type based, not subtype based. This means you don’t have to pick a subtype when selecting outsider or humanoid.
11: I’ve completely reworked the Nanite Bloodline for a player.
12: I’m in the middle of a gunslinger, Cavalier, and words of power rework.
13: Crits can explode. If your confirmation is a crit you reduce your critical range by 1 stage and roll another confirmation check. Each success increases your critical modifier by 1 (2x becomes 3x, etc). A failed critical confirmation still does maximum damage. Crits deal max damage for the base damage plus an additional amount of rolled damage equal to their modifier (so 1d8+4 x3 does 12 + 2d8 + 8 damage)
14: Everything uses a stat block of 16, 14, 14, 13, 10, 8 and then I reverse engineer the monster stats from there: figuring out the bonuses from size and “making up” racial bonuses for my monsters. Every monster is hand crafted, though I do use existing monsters as my starting point.
15: Monsters with class levels are “gestalt” monsters. They use the better HD and skill points of either their type or class. They always have at least one “bad” saving throw. They also receive automatic bonus progression, except their resistance bonus is halved unless they are the boss of the book.
16: Animal companions, eidolons, familiars, drakes, and phantoms also receive automatic bonus progression to reduce the gold burden placed on their characters.
17: I use WBL and fixed level up points throughout the story instead of XP. Enemies may have extra items the party can gather, but will rarely have “trash loot” that the party no longer needs.
19: I made set of downtime rules. Downtime occurs between books in the adventure path. Each character gets two downtime actions with varying rewards based on their success. I got the idea from Lancer.
18: probably forgetting at least something, will edit this post if I remember and when I don’t have to go to work in 20 minutes.
So; I'm personally not that big a fan of clerics. They're all pretty similar to each other. Sure you can still specialize your spells and channel either positive or negative energy; but they just don't have enough class features. Plus I don't especially like prepared casting. When you don't have good information about what you're doing the following day its easy to fail to have sufficient spells prepared. If you're fine with having a mediocre loadout of buff and summoning spells when you don't have a good idea of what threats are head; Cleric is very beginner friendly for a 9th level caster.
Druid is another prepared class, and its kinda campaign dependent. The more outdoorsy your campaign -> the better the druid will feel. Not just from class features, but Wild Shape provides unparrelled scouting and movement even if you're not building to punch things as a bear. I love being able to choose a companion, domain, or free potions as appropriate. Again, I'm not a big fan of playing a prepared caster but at the same time a lot of Druid Spells are so incredibly situational that when you need them you'll have time to rest and prepare them. Wildshape is not beginner friendly though; especially if you aren't making yourself spare sheets for whatever form you take. Keeping track of all the various polymorph bonuses and size changes is a lot of work.
Oracle was my first class and I much prefer them. You have a number of different abilities thanks to your curse and mystery; you do have to pick and choose your spells as a spontaneous caster but you can spam them to your hearts content based on the situation. Its weaker than say the Sorcerer, just because of the nature of the cleric list, but being able to spam your spells instead of saving them for the exact moment they're needed is a huge upgrade in my book. Its the divine sorcerer and I love it for that.
Shaman is another class that I'm fond of; mostly for its incredible utility. Every day the Shaman can focus on doing something a little different for the party. Hexes are also quite nice as non-spell actions, even if you're locked out of the really good witch hexes. Again, its a third prepared class though and its native spell list is fairly niche. On the flip side you get to augment that with the spirit magic from your spirits for the day. Its the most work of any of the classes but also I think the most versatile. Fun if you don't mind the paper work.
I recently hand waived a fight, the party was facing an enemy with lots of HP, regeneration and powerful defensive buffs (the penalty for fighting underwater is wild). The party is very debuff focused and after they crippled the thing (blinded, nauseated, confused, and exhausted) I asked them if they were cool with fast forwarding through the encounter. We only get about 2.5 hours of play a week and it was nearly time for the LGS to close.
So yeah, once a fight is essentially over I’m perfectly happy with calling it completed even if enemies are still standing. I also don’t mind when the party circumvents a fight entirely through clever roleplay or convoluted schemes
So, I personally think the standard party of 4 is almost always going to lack something. There are, after all, 6 primary stats and everyone has to pay the constitution tax. Unless the stat distributions are generous people will have a hard time covering multiple roles.
So let’s cover what’s vital first.
You need 9th level level casting or a truck of gold for the scrolls you’ll need to UMD, and you’ll need both an arcane and divine caster, or at least access to their important spells. Even an especially generalist caster like a Lore Shaman probably will need additions casting back up. I’d argue you need 1.75 9th level casters. So you’ll probably need to double up. For example, a Warpriest and a Paladin can probably make up for lacking a cleric: though you’d still want a Wizard, Witch, Arcanist, or Psychic to handle the arcane side of things.
You’ll need a frontline and someone who can disable traps. Again, one person can’t quite cover the frontline though you’ll likely only be able to afford one trap disabler. Plus the whole host of skills a party needs.
I’ll think on this a bit and come up with my “solution” ; a way to jam 5 hats onto 4 heads.
So, my personal experience in this regard comes from running a few lengthy campaigns (I’d say I’ve been DMing for about 10+ years now, exact time table lost to Covid time shenanigans). And it’s that while I value non-conventional characters and builds from my PCs, I personally feel that a more balanced character provides the best experience at my table.
Most of my players are what I will refer to as “casual” TTRPG enjoyers. They bring me a character concept and I help them flesh it out and bring it to life. At my table, due to time constraints, combat encounters are exclusively boss and miniboss fights, though what exactly that details can vary from more of a hoard fight to facing down a single CR+4 encounter. Most sessions are planning/RP heavy and involve skill checks, logistics puzzles, and over coming various obstacles. So we rarely have a proper “adventuring day” of several CR + 0 encounters in a row.
As a result of this, I try to point my players in a direction that gives each of them some manner of out of combat utility. Beat sticks without any RP potential are going to be fairly bored in 75% of my game sessions. The same thing goes for “plinkers” who will need something to do in the 25% of sessions that are fights. Pathfinder is still a game about specialization, but it’s possible to divest just enough of your resources (especially with my house rules that provide extra resources) to have your character matter even when it’s not time for your speciality.
As a result, The sole type of character that doesn’t do well at my table are the ones that are designed to be useless. And unfortunately I have a player who only makes these characters. Designed to be useless is a little harsh, rather let’s say “designed purely from an RP standpoint”. Their character is inevitably some manner of god awful multiclass designed without consultation with any other player: existing solely to represent their newest concept of a character. The few places they excel are inevitably covered by another character because they didn’t consult, while the places they fail make them a liability rather than an asset.
I literally do not account for them when designing encounters. In non-combat situations someone else can do whatever they are doing. In combat encounters the benefits they provide are so negligible that I treat my party as a 5 player group instead of 6 when accounting for CR budget. Even my plinkers are typically accounted for in my design process as they do something, anything, to add to the party’s value.
Suffice to say that, long rambling aside, whenever you design a beat stick or a plinker you should make sure they do something for the party. Ideally you design a character with a few resources dedicated so they’re not completely useless when they are outside their area of expertise. However, please also design them with an area of expertise in mind. Preferably so that their area of expertise doesn’t overlap with the existing party. As always account for your party members and the style of campaign your GM runs. Provided you accomplish those simple goals, and you are having fun, there is no reason you should have to build a beat stick (or conversely, have to build a plinker).
I do not personally advocate for critical fumbles. Martial characters have it rough enough without needing to worry about one of their 6 attacks a turn causing them to decapitate themselves.
I'm always a fan of "position the enemy to stand under the big crusher and drop the crusher on him to win" fight. A death pit is another option too. The trick is to maneuver the enemy into the position and then trigger the crusher/open the pit/push them into the pit/push them under the crusher to win.
My personal interpretation for this is as follows, without necessarily regard for RAW but instead RAI. This is formed thanks to folks helping point out that spells aren’t abilities but also includes some of the other debate. I’m personally in the camp of “if an archetype steals an ability from another class just replace every instance of the classes name with the archetypes name”.
A Sanctified Slayer’s Studied Target:
#1: Boosts the DCs of any Slayer Talent.
#2: Boosts the DCs of any Inquisitor Abilities (ie: Discern Lies)
#3: Boosts the DCs of any feat with a DC
#4: Does not boost the DCs of any Inquisitor Spells
This is how I’ll be running it at my table. The most controversial one of these points is likely #3; though if they survive long enough to pick up any critical feats I’ll deal with the consequences of my actions.
If any future GM looking for the same information, this was my compromise.
Ah, thank you, no I have a build put together. This fellow is an NPC the party will tag along with for a while and wanted to double check my interpretation. A +5 DC to spells seemed really high to me, and I didn’t want this NPC to overshadow the party’s Mesmerist.
I'm onto Book 3 of RoTR as of next month; though I've been modifying it pretty heavily to better fit my players. Reducing the animal abuse, increasing the intrigue, etc.
We did the Shopkeeper encounter but it didn't go anyway because I picked the most oblivious player (who just happened to have the highest charisma). They also didn't hang out with Alderen since they were against hunting for sport. Instead they ended up hanging out with the Innkeep.
I don't think any parts of Chapter 2 except the Graveyard are really required for the player to understand whats going on in town. Its all about just building rapport with the city and establishing that there are still ongoing problems.
Use the opportunity to instead give your players little slice of life sections. They're the heroes for their actions during the festival; so the towns people are inclined to like them. Spotlight each of your players for their daily routine (whether thats taking advantage of the House of Stones library or playing/teaching the orphans or whatever) and end with the graveyard scene to set the stage for the next chapter.
It's really a technical "build" issue and requires some system expertise (or copying) as far as being an effective character.
On the roleplay(RP) & acting side of things it's about skills and what's on paper (what are the assumptions about your class etc). Often it's hard to actually stay "in character" as people's personalities and common assumptions are projected through the character. We've all had 'that guy' who plays the same no matter the class.
*This thread* is about doing (at best somewhat effective) builds. Players and GMs do silly things at times as it is a Game... lol...
My first game system was Pathfinder 1E, theres might have been 1e, maybe ADnD. As a result they are certain that they have more system expertise than me.
I don't have a problem with this fellow, worth noting. I'm glad they are part of my table and they help keep the game light and at times absurd. We'd rather have a fun and ridiculous adventure rather than painful and difficult one after all. Still, it can be frustrating. I balance my fights around the groups averages and that makes it hard for this character to really succeed.
Heather 540 wrote:
Oof, two casting classes with different casting stats? For flavor only? I've dipped out of casting a couple of times on different characters, even for flavor reasons, but I tried to keep to the same casting stats when I did. The only time I didn't was for my oracle. I dipped a single level of warpriest in order to get Weapon Focus and Divine Fighting Technique as bonuses.
Yeah, so they're split between Wisdom and Charisma, Druid and Bard. They have an animal companion from the Animal Domain, and even with Boon Companion its still several levels behind. As far as I know they don't plan on taking any more Bard levels, so the AC should catch up a bit (and I have some house rules that make Animal Companions better) but they'd have been so much more effective as a like an Animal Speaker or Fey Speaker or something single classed - or at least having the same casting score.
I use stat arrays so going both high Wisdom and high Charisma means that their physical stats are sub-par - and they tend to use Wild Shape more for utility so they don't even fight while transformed.
Its a whole thing - but as long as they are happy and keep the adventure absurd its all good.
I guess my main point is that I've not seen a well made multiclass done in any of my home games. So thats my contribution to the thread. Hopefully others, with better system mastery, have had success.
There's a multiclass character in my campaign who is just two classes.
They are not especially effective as they have multiclassed two different casting classes with different casting attributes. Too MAD, their classes don't synergize, and they refused my homebrew attempts to help them as being too complex. So they're going to be rocking 3rd level spells when everyone else is getting access to 5th level spells in my coming level up. Its not even for a prestige class or anything; and they didn't even stop the one class leveling up at an especially good point. Its just "for the flavor" and thats cool.
However, they have also complained about their character not being effective on more than one occasion.
As a result I'm honestly not a fan of multiclassing in general, even if its more of a player issue in this case. I suppose I wouldn't mind it if someone has a specific idea of something they want to accomplish. I'm just usually helping my players build their characters, so I try to keep them clear of multiclassing. Instead I help them find archetypes or prestige classes that let them do the thing they want.
Oh the Lamia sisters are much more dangerous than they normally are - and are playing larger roles as well. The first is a gestalt lamia/bard advanced up to 14 HD; the other is a gestalt Lamia/Sorcerer (accursed) with 16 HD that has joined the coven up in the mountains.
As I mentioned; They have some mythic tiers and mythic initiative so they act 2/round. We only meet for a little bit each week so I streamlined a lot of the smaller encounters into narrative scenes and then throw them whoppers for their boss fights.
Still on book two of Rise of the Runelords. I've changed the plot considerably from the main book. I've been working on introducing the main plot of the AP earlier. To better establish Leng as a threat within the setting the party is currently trying to rescue the daughter of the mayor of magnimar from the mines of Leng - her dream self having been trapped there for weeks by a Nightmare Dragon.
The party is level 8 but fairly large; 6 players and 2 GMNPC followers. As a result; and to better display the powers they are facing, anyone serving the big bad has mythic tiers. This week is their fight with an M1 Adult Nightmare Dragon with mythic initiative to take 2 turns each round of combat.
I've altered the leveling curve a bit to account for my divergence from the AP, so they'll be level 20 with maybe M2 or 3 by the time they hit the end of book 6.
I've dramatically changed Book Two of Rise of the Runelords; the party is six strong (seven with the DMNPC I was running before we had the last two players join and I'm writing them out of the story at the end of book 2) confronting a cult of Norgorber inside the Magnimar Sewers. The cult thought they had lured the party in and knew their strategy; but the party decided at the last minute to just kick the door down.
The party is now in a combat against 121 cultists of levels between 3-12. They have killed 27 CR2 Faceless Stalker variants, 2 regular Faceless Stalkers, and 1 level 12 Inquisitor VMC Rogue with PC wealth. They also managed to get some poison gas piped into the room to knock out a large number of the cultists.
They have taken 9 points of damage. Luck has played a significant role, but I have been doing some behind the scenes tuning to make sure the other 90 enemies pose a threat. Well, whatever of those that are conscious.
I have no really kept up with this thread, so pardon me if I'm repeating points or not entirely relevant.
As far as a Reach Magus goes its uh...difficult to say the least. You can get there eventually with improved Whip Mastery but thats level 9 at the earliest. The Flying Talon is a 1h reach weapon but it doesn't threaten, so you don't get AoOs ever.
Long Arm seems like the best option, so you wield whatever one handed weapon you want. Turn 1 you can Long Arm and move up to position, turn 2 you can spell-combat Frostbite and start smacking people with frost bite AoOs (I believe this works). Another option to Long Arm is Enlarge Person (but you can't spell combat Enlarge Person due to its casting time AND it lowers your Dex so fewer AoOs)
Sure you're eating 2 spells each combat this way, but you'll hit Spell Recall by level 4 (at level 4 you're looking at 2+Int Arcane Points) and you'll have 4 first level spells each day. You can burn an arcane point to recover your spent resources. Assuming you have 5 arcane points, that gives you exactly 3 fights during the day at "full power" at level 4:
Fight 1: Arcane Pool Enhance (1), First Level Spells (2)
Fight 2: Arcane Pool Enhance (2), First Level Spells (4)
In-between Fights: Arcane Pool Spell Recall (4)
Fight 3: Arcane Pool Enhance (5), First Level Spells (6)
And that still leaves you with both your 2nd level spells for the day in case things don't go as planned.
This all works with either strength or dexterity, so you can go Level 1: Weapon Finesse, Level 3 (or 1 if Human): Combat Reflexes. That leaves you with a lot of resources, every feat from level 5+ to do your thing. Once you've got 4th level spells in your pocket you can start using Monstrous Physique 2 instead to get up to Large Size as part of Spell Combat. Plus at that level you'll have Lunge so you'll have 15ft of reach during your turn, 10ft of reach otherwise meaning you can force enemies into your reach. Foes with more reach than you will still be an issue, but unless you're constantly fighting huge "tall" creatures you'll not be seeing too many things with 15ft of reach.
Dual-Cursed Oracle and Cyclopean Seer Oracle both tinker a bit with dice rolls. You could also play as a Samsaran in order to add a few extra dice manipulation spells to the list, like Hermean potential.
You'd have to manually limit yourself to the spells, but seeing briefly into the future and taking advantage of it sounds like dice manipulation to me far more than it sounds like focusing on a single school of magic.
Group's working our way through Rise of the Runelords Book 2...I am gonna have them fight a Black Dragon (Fungal Creature) instead
The party handily beat down the Fungal Dragon (Fungal Creature Black Dragon with a mix of the Juvenile and Young Adult stat lines) and has reached level 7. They will soon be off to Magnimar, which means I have a lot of prep-work to do. Probably a whole new google doc of references, but thats the GM's life. The story is mostly the same, but the Mayor's Daughter has been kidnapped by the cult to force him into marrying Xanesha. We'll see what direction the party goes once they get to the city and I'll adapt as I go. Instead of a confrontation at the Shadow Clock, I plan for a heck of a wedding.
Group's working our way through Rise of the Runelords, I've been doing some pretty serious rewrites as we've gone to flesh out the world and keep things interesting. Currently they are about half way through book 2, about to head off to Magnimar. Before they go though, I've made a stat block for Vorel and they're going to confront him. Should be in a week or two.
The party discovered Ghost Powder and so I've had to rework the Vorel fight, again. Originally he was going to possess the Skinsaw man during that confrontation and show up as a Lich but they ganked TSM during one of his murder attempts so thats out of the window. Looking at all my options, I've decided to let them invalidate the fight with Vorel's ghost and have taken some inspiration from Monster Hunter World (Iceborn) and am gonna have them fight a Black Dragon (Fungal Creature) instead...maybe with a few adjustments if the stats don't line up right.
Group's working our way through Rise of the Runelords, I've been doing some pretty serious rewrites as we've gone to flesh out the world and keep things interesting. Currently they are about half way through book 2, about to head off to Magnimar. Before they go though, I've made a stat block for Vorel and they're going to confront him. Should be in a week or two.
I refer you to the following which I also agree with.
Mightypion wrote:
Also, stop treating fighters as a class for beginners. They are one of the hardest things to build properly, selecting the correct feats requires a considerable degree of system mastery.
Its cool that people enjoy the current Fighter and that you can even build them to be effective. But simple does not mean easy, or good.
--I have rage as a mechanic that gives me more decisions. I like making decisions.
I concur with everything in this post. But especially with this line in particular. If your class doesn't let you say "I use/cast/activate X" with a class feature its not a good class. Phrases like "I rage", "I sneak attack", "I flurry of blows", "I smite evil", "I cast fireball" are all iconic player moments that feel really good. They're decision points and making decisions is fun. The core fighter does not have a single class feature that you as the player interact with on a moment to moment basis. Its all static numeric increases.
WMH and AMH both helped out with this a little bit, but without advanced weapon/armor training (and even with most of them, honestly nearly all of them are just more numeric bonuses) you don't ever decide to use a class feature as a fighter. They're just all on all the time. Sure big numbers are fun, but you can get bigger numbers by raging or smiting or sneak attacking. So all core Fighter has going for it is extremely consistent above average statistics which is...not especially exciting.
Active/Reactive class abilities >>>>>> Passive Numeric Bonuses
PS: Yeah, Bloodrager is a great martial class, especially for beginners. Rage + Bloodline + Spells + Actual Class Skills is a wonderful combination to make your player feel impactful.
I understand the idea behind a good portion of it. But all of it together is the equivalent of just giving fighters everything and the kitchen sink. Not even casters can do absolutely everything.
Yeah, casters can only: turn their skin to stone, heal wounds, create clouds of gas that are literal war crimes, call upon divine entities to answer the questions or fight for them, travel fast distances in mere moments, pull information from thin air, read people's thoughts, mind control people, call down fire and lightning from the sky, create images that aren't there, imitate other spells with shadows, overload people's senses with flashing lights, raise the dead, transform lead into gold, and become giant terrible monsters through polymorph.
Magic is useful both inside of combat, during travel, during exploration, and is capable of massively boosting skill checks to the point where someone with magic will do better than someone without magic at whatever they are attempting to accomplish. Yes, magic has limits. Prepared spellcasters need to know what is going on ahead of time (mostly) and spontaneous spellcasters are limited because they need to select general spells rather than specific ones; and both are limited by their spell slots. However, its not like every caster has opposition schools either. Wizards have to pick two schools to be worse at, but Arcanists, Witches, Shamans, Druids, and Clerics are all 9th level prepared spellcasters who can literally do absolutely everything. Shaman's whole class identity is "jack of all trades". Spontaneous spellcasters need to focus a little bit more, but can freely pick from their tool box as the day goes by and aren't punished for grabbing spells outside their area of focus. The battlefield controller Sorcerer can still pick up Fly, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and their black tentacles and dazing fireballs don't become less potent as a result.
So I don't personally mind when my players without spellcasting get to do cool things despite their lack of magic. Because whatever cool stuff I give them is still less likely to matter than the Stinking Cloud that gets thrown on turn 1 of the fight and results in failed saving throws. So, call it free stuff if you like, I call it class features. Classes get more of those when they can't snap their fingers and violate all the laws of thermodynamics at the same time.
That first paragraph was a little petty of me, but I hope it gets the point across. Having 6-9 levels of spell slots is dramatically more powerful than anything a martial character can hope to accomplish. The ideal solution to martial/caster disparity would be to give martial classes some manner of magical-like actions of their own but the whole point of martial classes in these fantasy type games is that some people don't want to be casting fireballs and raising the dead. Some people just want to be a soldier, so might as well let them be a cool soldier.
And, to restate, this needs playtested and probably nerfed several times. My Gunslinger rework is in the middle of playtesting and I've already learned a few painful lessons from that.
^Sounds nice, but where should I be looking for Effortless Training (must be another Fighter Unchained addition)?
Yeah, its a work in progress. I have chassis done pending testing but I haven't developed the talents yet. Its kinda hard to think up cool things that are fighter specific that don't lean into all the stuff more associated with Rangers, Barbarians, Knights (Cav/Samurai), Rogues, Monks, Paladins, and the like. So I ended up thinking of a more "Career Soldier" kind of fellow. I'm sure at least something here could be wildly broken, but its not like everything Paizo has released as a 1st party thing has been perfectly balanced. So yeah, much testing required and I need to write out like 30 talents when I get the time and creative energy.
We're Kinda Getting into Homebrew here but what the heck, this is the most interaction my stuff has gotten:
Effortless Training (Ex):
Starting at 2nd level, a Fighter’s talent for rapidly learning new abilities grants them intuitive understanding of any advanced ability they could learn. Whenever a Fighter gains a Fighter Level and meets all the qualifications for certain feats, they learn them automatically without needing to select those feats manually. Mark these feats as Effortless Feats on their character sheet. The Fighter must meet all prerequisites for the feat to learn it in this manner without the assistance of spells or abilities, only permanent magical items with a constant effect (such as a Belt of Strength) may assist a Fighter in meeting these qualifications.
The Feats the Fighter may learn through Effortless Training include all combat feats with “Improved” and “Greater” in their names. This means Fighters automatically gain Improved Initiative and Improved Unarmed Strike as bonus feats at level 2.
Armor Training (Ex):
Starting at 2rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –5 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +5 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.
In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 6th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.
FIghter’s Techniques (Ex):
As a Fighter gains experience, they perfect a series of advanced techniques to represent their experience and mastery of combat feats. Starting at 2nd level, a Fighter gains one Fighter Technique. They gain an additional Fighter Technique for every 2 levels of Fighter attained after 2nd level. Fighters may only select techniques for which they meet all the prerequisites. A Fighter cannot select an individual technique more than once unless otherwise specified. The saving throws of Fighter talents are 10 + ½ their Fighter level + Constitution Modifier.
Fighter’s Stamina (Ex):
At 3th level a Fighter knows how to push themselves beyond their physical limits. As long as the Fighter got 8 hours of sleep (or the equivalent amount of rest from magical sources) they can spend a swift action to remove the Fatigued condition from themselves. Additionally, as long as the Fighter could use Fighter’s Stamina they no longer take non-lethal damage from Hustling or Forced Marches.
Weapon Training (Ex):
Starting at 4th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls. A fighter also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from this group. This bonus also applies to the fighter's Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from this group.
Every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th), the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by +1 each.
Additionally whenever the Fighter gains a feat that requires selecting a single weapon, and they choose a weapon from within their chosen weapon group, then the Fighter is treated as having the selected feats for all the weapons in the associated weapon group that are legal choices for those feats. The fighter is also considered to have those feats with these weapons for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.
Relentless Assault
At 5th level, a Fighter learns to go the extra ten percent above and beyond their foes. As a free action a Fighter can take an additional standard action during their turn. When they take this additional standard action the Fighter becomes staggered at the beginning of their next turn for 1 round. If the Fighter is already staggered, they become dazed instead for 1 round. The Fighter cannot use Relentless Assault two turns in a row.
Unlike a normal standard action, there are restrictions on the types of actions a Fighter can take with the standard action granted by this ability. The Fighter may not use this additional standard action to cast spells, activate the class abilities of other classes, or attempt skill checks unless the skill in question is a Fighter Class Skill that takes a standard action to complete. Fighters with racial spell-like abilities may still cast those spells with the additional standard action. Additionally, the fighter may not combine this additional standard action with their normal move action or with Adrenaline Rush in order to take a full round/one round action.
Enhanced Stamina (Ex):
At 7th level a Fighter’s physical limits are only a matter of their determination. As long as the Fighter got 8 hours of sleep (or the equivalent amount of rest from magical sources) and are not at exactly 0 HP they can spend a swift action to remove the Staggered condition from themselves. Additionally, as long as the Fighter could use Enhanced Stamina they are immune to disease and the sickened condition.
The Secrets of Steel
At 9th level a Fighter has learned how to channel a magical weapon or armor’s potential into different aspects. Each day while spending an hour in meditative training, the Fighter can freely redistribute the enhancements and properties of any magical weapon, armor, shield, or piece of ammunition they possess for 24 hours. For example, a Fighter could alter the properties of a +2 Shocking Keen Scimitar into a +4 Scimitar, or a +2 Flaming Fey Bane Scimitar. The magical item must retain at least +1 to its Enhancement bonus and a Fighter cannot ever move Enhancements from one item to another. The Fighter may meditate on both Intensive Training and The Secrets of Steel at the same time. Any item modified by The Secrets of Steel only retains its new properties while wielded by the Fighter. If the Fighter is disarmed or otherwise drops the weapon it reverts to its original enhancements and properties; but, it regains the newly selected ones from The Secrets of Steel if the Fighter picks it back up.
Bonafide Veteran
At 11th level a Fighter has seen it all, and then some. The Fighter becomes immune to fear effects and can spend a swift action rallying their allies. This grants them the same benefits as if the Fighter had cast “Remove Fear” on all allied characters within 30 ft using their Fighter level as their caster level.
Exploit Weakness
At 13th level a Fighter understands how to exploit the strange way time seems to stretch during combat. Whenever a Fighter uses Go For the Eyes they can spend a standard action to extend the benefits to all attacks they make until the beginning of their next turn. When they do this, they become fatigued for 2 rounds at the beginning of their next turn. If the Fighter is already fatigued they become Exhausted instead for 2 rounds. If the Fighter used Adrenaline Surge in the same round as Exploit Weakness they automatically become Exhausted at the beginning of their next turn for 2 rounds.
Endless Stamina (Ex):
At 15th level, a Fighter can push themselves even further beyond mortal limits. As long as the Fighter got 8 hours of sleep (or the equivalent amount of rest from magical sources) they can spend a swift action to remove the Exhausted condition from themselves. The Fighter becomes immune to nonlethal damage from environmental or magical sources and additionally, as long as they are wearing armor, becomes immune to nonlethal damage from weapon attacks.
Invoke the Deeper Secrets
At 17th level any number of times during a day the Fighter can spend a full round action to redistribute the properties and enhancements on any number of magical weapons, armor, shields, or ammunition they possess as if they had spent an hour using The Secrets of Steel.
No Time to Bleed
At 19th level a Fighter can throw their body completely into the fight response to stave off their bodily responses. A Fighter becomes immune to bleed damage (including Ability Bleed) and the nauseated condition. Additionally they can spend a standard action rallying their allies, this grants them the same benefits as if the Fighter had cast “Remove Sickness” on all allied characters within 30 ft using their Fighter level as their caster level.
Storm of Fire and Steel (Ex):
At 20th level, a Fighter may combine both Relentless Assault and Adrenaline Surge together in order to destroy their foes in a flurry of impossibly fast strikes. While using both Relentless Assault and Adrenaline Surge in the same turn, the Fighter may choose to combine the move action granted by Relentless Assault and the Standard granted by Adrenaline Surge to take any full round or one round action as a free action during their turn (except to cast spells, activate the class abilities of other classes, or attempt skill checks unless the skill in question is a Fighter Class Skill that takes a full round or one round action to complete). Fighters with racial spell-like abilities may still cast those spells with the additional full round action. The Fighter still suffers the usual side effects for using Relentless Assault and Adrenaline Surge.
Just to keep the conversation moving, this is the level 1 abilities that I grant to Fighters in my personal "unchained" remake of the class.
Cool Fighter Stuff:
Intensive Training (Ex):
At first level, every day the Fighter can spend one hour in meditative training. When they do so they can choose to learn a new combat feat in place of a combat feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the combat feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. Additionally, the old feat cannot be an Effortless Feat (one that the Fighter obtained from their Effortless Training Class Feature). A fighter can only change one feat each day in this manner.
Adrenaline Surge (Ex):
At 1st level, a Fighter learns that movement is life upon a battlefield. As a free action a Fighter can take an additional move action during their turn. When they take this additional move action the Fighter becomes fatigued at the beginning of their next turn for 2 rounds. If the Fighter is already fatigued, they become Exhausted instead for 2 rounds. An Exhausted fighter may not use Adrenaline Surge, and a Fighter may not use Adrenaline Surge two rounds in a row.
The Fighter may not use Adrenaline Surge to attempt a skill check unless the skill is a Fighter Class Skill and would only take a move action to complete. The fighter may not combine the additional move action from this ability with their normal standard action in order to take a full round/one round action.
Go For the Eyes (Ex):
At 1st level the Fighter can spend a move action to steady their aim and pick out an exposed soft location, armored seem, or joint that they can strike. The next attack the fighter attempts until the end of their next turn targets touch AC. When using this ability with a Ranged attack the target must be within the first range increment.
I’ve toyed with a homebrew class inspired by the Red Mage from final fantasy, the idea would be that they’re a 4th level spellcaster but they get a ton of spells per day and scaling cantrips. Their main gimmick was going to be doublecast, where instead of gaining access to 5th, 6th, and etc spell slots they could instead cast two spells with a total level up to 5th as a full round action. So even with increased spells per day you could nova through your spellcasts if you weren’t careful.
Ranger gaining bonuses from knowledge checks could be a fun mechanic, for sure. Maybe give them the inquisitor treatment where they can use Wis for knowledge checks instead of Int.
I have a fighter rework nearly done and ready for testing. The chassis is complete, but I need to find the time or energy to come up with 30 odd deeds/powers/talents for them to get every few levels. This is always the hard part of writing up new classes. Especially when Fighter is just so...generic. It took a lot of time to make them feel in any way shape or form unique, and I'm not sure how to give them talents without carving into other classes identities. At the same time, the fighter needs a series of talents because only have access to feats is a terrible way of creating an identity and requires an entire additional level of system mastery to properly enjoy.
Even the int-based classes I homebrew up to 4+Int per level, and I give them 2 free skillpoints on top of that based on their backstory. Its a lot easier to get my players into the role part of the role playing when they feel they can do things in social situations and can spend points on the things they need for adventuring without feeling like they have to spend points on specific skills because of their backstory.
Any class that doesn't let you make meaningful decisions or have impactful class features. So...
Bard: Just to make Masterpieces cooler and built into the class without having to sacrifice feats or spells.
Brawler: Needs talents/powers like a Rogue/Barbarian.
Cavalier: Throw out Orders, add in talents, make their horse better. Its the only pet class that doesn't have spell slots to keep their Pet up to snuff.
Fighter: Give them actual class features: feats don't count. Also talents.
Gunslinger: So like, Wizard Schools/Cleric Domains are kinda the least adaptable thing that I accept as something similar to a Talent. Deeds are somehow even worse than Domains or Schools because you always get the same deeds. Also, guns in Pathfinder in general are badly written and should be reworked.
Ninja: Should have been its own class, like Monk meets Rogue. Lots of fun you could do here.
Ranger: Favored Enemy/Favored Terrain is a holdover from 3.5 and is bad because its too narrow for most campaigns.
Rogue (Unchained): Honestly still needs full BAB progression and maybe something else cool, like Sneak Attack working on Vital Strike or something. No idea how this is still the only .75 BAB class without spell slots.
Samurai: Should be merged into the cavalier rework, there isn't as much potential here as there is for Ninja.
Shifter: Everything about this class is bad. It doesn't just need an unchained version it needs to be unmade and reborn as something entirely different.
Swashbuckler: Deeds again, they're bad. If you've played one swashbuckler you've played every swashbuckler.
Vigilante: Just make him full BAB you cowards (exception is for the archetypes that grant spellcasting, those should remain .75 BAB).
Since we got four Unchained classes from the original Unchained book, there is room here for at least 3 whole books of Unchained content! Or just one if you don't release additional rules (aside from an update on Firearms because the rules for them are terrible). Anyway, for all of these I suggest buffing the class or making the class smoother and easier to play like the Monk, Rogue, or Barbarian Unchained. None of the classes need the nerf-bat like Summoner Unchained.
Hey Folks, I've been working on doing a rework for the Gunslinger. I've never liked playing classes that did not let you select abilities or spells every few levels, so I ditched the deed system entirely and came up with a new core mechanic other than just "can shoot gun". I have one of my players testing it now, but I'm interested in more feedback.
As Gunslingers are precise and daring fighters, I gave them a real risk vs reward theme. They gamble their HP by provoking additional attacks in order to increase their DPR, and can risk Grit when making saving throws, combat maneuver checks, or skill/ability checks in order to recover it. Lastly they get to craft a special pool of ammunition they can use each day much like Alchemist Bombs.
The following document is a complete redesign of the Gunslinger. It also optionally includes a new set of rules for firearms and ranged weapons in order to make Guns more balanced and Crossbows more useful: giving each a specific role to play as compared to bows. You can probably run the Gunslinger without these new rules, or by only grabbing a select handful of them. If you do not want to use all of the new rules, I highly suggest allowing for Paizo Guns and Crossbows to be made "Heavy Frame" aka Composite.
Gunslinger - Testing a Rework
Cavalier/Samurai - Testing a Rework
Fighter - Designing a Rework - but stalled at talents
Ranger, Swashbuckler, Shifter, Brawler, and Ninja are also on the chopping block but I'm not sure I'll ever get around to them so they're legal for the moment. Just highly suggested to avoid.
If a class doesn't get to pick fun new things to do every other level its a bad class. Spellcasters get spells, martials should get something fun too. If you can't even bother to give me Rogue Talents/Rage Powers to sort through I'm gonna try and fix it.
Gunslinger's rework is actually quite fun though I'm unsure how the math will work out. Hopefully my RotRL campaign will help figure out what I've gotten fluey. Wish one of my players was testing the Cavalier but I'm throwing one at them every now and then to see how they work.
Hunter and Barbarian is probably one of my favorite Gestalts. You grab Combat Expertise at level 1, Ferocious Mount as your Level 2 Rage Power, and for level 3 you grab Amplified Rage and Pack Flanking at the same time.
At this point both you and your Mount are raging for +8 Strength and +8 Constitution and anything both of you are threatening suffers from being flanked with another +4 bonus to your attack rolls. As soon as you can get yourself Power Attack you are ready to swing like a damn monster.
Hunter and Rogue can kinda do something similar with just Pack Flanking and Sneak Attacks to deliver hefty hits while gaining permanent flanking from being mounted.
I am also quite fond of Sorcerer/Scaled Fist Unchained Monk into Dragon Disciple/Scaled Fist.
I have a house rule where the minimum a character can roll on HP is Con Mod +1. So if you have 14 Con you’re getting at least a 3 on your HP roll.
This applies to monsters and doesn’t give a damn about the dice cap. If the monster has a 30 Con but only D6 on their HD they’re still “rolling” a 10. This helps late game monsters not get one shot.
Does mean if you’re a Con based class you will be huge: and that’s okay.
I wanna nominate the Elven Branch Spear. Out of the box its a martial weapon for Elves and Half Elves, it is a finessable reach weapon that requires zero feat investment [Unlike Whip or Spiked Chain], and has a +2 to AoOs based on movement (you know, the whole reason you use a reach weapon?). Sure its only got a 3x crit mod and only does 1d8 which is sub-par for most Martial Weapons (basically a Lance without the mounted bonus) but like; its a finesseable reach weapon with zero feat investment for elves. Thats literally unique in Pathfinder.
Love it on Unchained Rogues, Dex to damage on a reach weapon by level three. Beautiful.
