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Your DM made a couple of rookie mistakes and panicked trying to find himself an out. He did kind of screw you guys over, and that's bad, but if he acknowledges he messed up then I wouldn't make a thing of it.
So in his campaign there were pirates getting ready to land ashore. The DM clearly didn't think we could handle them. The pirate boss jumped off the boat and the DM said "if you manage to kill him you will get a lot of good loot" because the pirate was wearing 12 really powerful rings such as; never crit fail, immune to crits, fast healing, etc. well after an hour long fight we were about to kill him, then DM made the captain use a smoke bomb to disappear. We were all annoyed and so we tried to look for him and we found the captain on the ship, we finished him off and tried to get the rings. The DM said he threw all the rings into the ocean. We were all really pissed because we got some loot that wasn't really worth the trouble and the DM said "if y'all would've gotten those rings I would've just had to kill your characters because you would all be OP." My thing is why would you give an npc really powerful gear and flaunt it as a reward if you didn't want us to get it anyways?
Yeah, GM screwed up hardcore here, and basically cheated the boss to be more overpowered than usual because he wanted to enforce it being a "run away" encounter.
For starters, there are ways to make a "boss" pirate overpowered without the use of ridiculous and obviously homebrewed and overpowered magic items. (Also, where the hell are all his crew? You'd think he'd have some crew members to spare for assaulting a land or enemy ship! Instead of having all of his men sit on the ship and look stupid.) Having some crew members join in the fight would certainly have made the encounter more dynamic and interesting, and also gave loot amongst the extra bodies without it being overpowered or abusive. Hell, most pirates usually have a treasure chest of some sort, maybe you guys could've found it aboard the ship and a couple of them may be magic trinkets like necklaces or what have you?
Having the pirate use smarter tactics (that Smoke Bomb trick would've been handy as an initiation tactic to take you guys out one at a time) instead of just charging and getting swarmed would've also made the fighter harder without requiring magic items. Did I also mention that, since you're on a beach with soggy sand and water, that him fighting in the water, his home terrain, would probably require difficult terrain issues on your part? Yet another difficult element to add to the encounter.
Templates; giving him the Advanced Simple template is also a great way to buff a creature without giving it magic items.
He has so many avenues to make the encounter harder (not including what I've just listed) instead of what he did, and he didn't do it because he was cocky and confident that you guys would just run at the sign of a ship.
Also, the GM forgot the biggest rule with rings; you can only ever benefit from two at a time. Unless the boss was wearing a Hand of Glory, or had multiple rings attached to a Meridian Belt (a better, more rules-legal way to get the "multiple rings" effect going), he only should have benefitted from maybe two of those effects at any time.
There also is no ring that gives you immunity to criticals, and critical failures is a houserule (since rolling a 1 for an attack roll is just an automatic miss, not a critical failure; big difference), meaning if a ring gave him that, that'd be houseruling too.
In other words, bad GM. I don't blame you for leaving the table if you so wish.
As Johnnycat93 said the GM made a mistake and than in a attempt to correct just made it worst. Like the woman who swallowed the spider to catch the fly...
I would talk to him about it...leaving out the 'Dick' part.
How new is he to Role-playing Games?
How new are you and the other players to RPGs?
The pirates were firing muskets on the ship and they were about to jump down to help but me playing an archer I was able to slow them down. There was a treasure chest inside the ship that had 30,000 gold but the ship "magically disappeared from existence" when the pirate captain died.
Still would've had some jump down in addition to having some firing muskets (I'm surprised they didn't carry flintlock pistols instead; it's more pirate-themed than muskets). I may have had them firing cannons from the ship instead of using muskets, but that's a whole different topic, and that might be a little much for you guys to handle, magic items or not.
Most treasures have more than just gold. They usually have valuable trinkets (such as a silver goblet or crown) and gems in addition to any gold, some of which can be magic items without the Pirate's knowledge.
Either way, he screwed up, and based on how he handled the situation (pirate had no reasonable way to ditch the rings without the PCs being able to find them, ships shouldn't disappear out of nowhere unless they're ghost ships with ghost pirates and crew; which would be interesting, but the encounter wasn't made to play that way), he has a lot to learn and understand being GM before he tries crap like that again.
Well if he's a veteran and still doing this kind of thing then that's another matter entirely. I've been in that sort of game before and it was awful the whole way.
He's DM'd a lot of campaigns. But I'm still fairly new and learning. This is my 2nd campaign and most of my learning is coming from these forums, D20pfsrd.com, and my friends that I'm currently playing with. Sometimes I feel I know more about the game than they do though because I'm always doing research about classes, characters, feats, items, etc. they know how to play while I know more about the content of what I'm playing.As Johnnycat93 said the GM made a mistake and than in a attempt to correct just made it worst. Like the woman who swallowed the spider to catch the fly...
I would talk to him about it...leaving out the 'Dick' part.
How new is he to Role-playing Games?
How new are you and the other players to RPGs?
I don't know how you can GM numerous campaigns and encounters and make silly mistakes like that. I'm not saying he should 100% predict what the PCs are going to do, but if he wanted to design an encounter that would make the PCs want to run, then he needed more than a ship with a bragging pirate to convey such a message along.
By experience, I'm considered the newest player on the block at my table, but I know so much about the mechanics and rules of the game (perhaps even moreso than my current GM, which is probably why he's giving me the chance to design and run an encounter). Of course, I still have a fair bit to learn with tactics (but at least I'm getting better with that, and this upcoming encounter I'm making will help out a lot in understanding and making use of tactics).
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Please, please, please tell me that said GM doesn't have a character with the party.
About the only thing that could make this worse would be a badly-run GMPC.
Please, please, please tell me that said GM doesn't have a character with the party.
About the only thing that could make this worse would be a badly-run GMPC.
I am guessing not...as than the GM PC would have the rings...
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Please, please, please tell me that said GM doesn't have a character with the party.
About the only thing that could make this worse would be a badly-run GMPC.
$5 says the plan was for them to get their asses kicked by uber-pirate and then be pressganged into his crew, where they'd tag along on epic adventures and chronicle pirate man's success.
He's DM'd a lot of campaigns. But I'm still fairly new and learning. This is my 2nd campaign and most of my learning is coming from these forums, D20pfsrd.com, and my friends that I'm currently playing with. Sometimes I feel I know more about the game than they do though because I'm always doing research about classes, characters, feats, items, etc. they know how to play while I know more about the content of what I'm playing.As Johnnycat93 said the GM made a mistake and than in a attempt to correct just made it worst. Like the woman who swallowed the spider to catch the fly...
I would talk to him about it...leaving out the 'Dick' part.
How new is he to Role-playing Games?
How new are you and the other players to RPGs?
Yeah...that is not a good sign. I don't mind the multiple Rings...it would probably be a artifact set and central to the campaign...
Now if this was a one time thing..the best of us have bad days..you might be able to live with it. But if it is a pattern of behavior...you should as a group talk to him about it.
I am not surprise you know more about the rules side of things than older players...I see that alot. Older players tend to make assumptions based on older edition...while newer players don't have that baggage.
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This is a great example of why cheating as a GM is bad idea.
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I would think a different way to have made the pirate a bit more powerful.
1) The Advanced template that was already mentioned.
2) One Magical Ring, but it's an 'Arcane Bond'. Thus, it reverts back to a masterwork ring upon the owner's death.
3) Some spell casting to have given some of the other abilities.. (As the pirate may have had time to precast a bunch of spells for defense).
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Oh and he also made really powerful NPC's who are helping us. They are really overpowered for the sake of being cool. Like the archer who kills 12 people with 1 shot, or the warrior where his cleaving ability also cleaves when it cleaves.
My thing though is why would you give an NPC that much gear if you didn't want the party to get said gear. The captain could just have those abilities without the use of magic items (like he's a supernatural being or something).
Fly you fools!
If this is a new GM explain that you do not enjoy this kind of game and maybe recommend they try GMing an adventurer path first or something. If they are an "experienced GM" you can try and have the same talk, but more likely will end up having to walk. Don't force yourself to play a game of Pathfinder you don't enjoy. No Pathfinder is better than bad Pathfinder.
It's really hard to piss me off, but there'd have been some rage table throwing after that.
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The Golden Rule of Gaming: No Gaming is better than Bad Gaming.
There are wonderful games to be found on this website. Even if you do not have anyone to play face to face with it might be best to leave. A bad table can poison the whole thing.
Are you in a small town? If you are not then with some looking you might be able to find people. Recruiting is always a thing. As weird as it sounds Craig's List is an option. I found my group that way and we have been playing for four years now.
Though I would advise talking to them first. Table top games are a cooperative game and everyone should be having fun.
Hell, if you want to play PbP I have a Carrion Crown game I need a new player for, you can submit when I re-open Recruitment here in a bit.
The annoying thing is these are the only guys I know that play pathfinder. If I walk from the table I just forfeit playing D&D. But that's why I thought about DM'ing my own campaign. I'm just afraid that it won't be great because I wanna do a skyrim campaign. One of my friends is a munchkin and my current DM is a power gamer.
Where do you Live?
I am always looking for new players...
Also you could post in the Gamer connection.
And yes I have to agree with everyone here your best bet is to walk. I don't think talking will work here.
PF is such a gear-based game, that sometimes to make NPCs "cool" you have to give them crazy gear. If you just make the abilities innate to the NPC, the PCs often want to know how they can get those same cool abilities (spell, feat, template, PrC, archetype, class, race, magic item, etc.)
When I GMed 3.0/3.5/PF, I always felt like I had to justify any special ability the NPCs had. Now that I DM 5E, I just give whatever fun and thematic abilities the NPCs should have.
For example, I recently had some demonic monkeyfolk riding pterodactyls attack my PCs' airship. I had changed their breath weapon from fire to thunder so their brand new airship wouldn't explode on their first flight. My PCs began targeting the mounts instead of the riders, so I just on-the-fly gave the demon monkeys a Reaction (immediate action) that let them throw their harpoons at the ship to prevent falling to their deaths. So, instead of killing half a dozen CR 1/4 critters, they also had to deal with the CR 2 riders as well.
DMing/GMing can be hard. It's one brain running multiple NPCs v multiple brains each focusing a single PC. GMs are going to make mistakes. Talking $#!+ about how tough your NPC is, and then bragging about his treasures, are mistakes one and two. Speak to your GM about your frustrations and trust concerns.
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The annoying thing is these are the only guys I know that play pathfinder. If I walk from the table I just forfeit playing D&D. But that's why I thought about DM'ing my own campaign. I'm just afraid that it won't be great because I wanna do a skyrim campaign. One of my friends is a munchkin and my current DM is a power gamer.
Here i a pbp recruitment thread that is open. Pirate themed.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2u6j3?treasure-on-the-high-seas
PF is such a gear-based game, that sometimes to make NPCs "cool" you have to give them crazy gear. If you just make the abilities innate to the NPC, the PCs often want to know how they can get those same cool abilities (spell, feat, template, PrC, archetype, class, race, magic item, etc.)
When I GMed 3.0/3.5/PF, I always felt like I had to justify any special ability the NPCs had. Now that I DM 5E, I just give whatever fun and thematic abilities the NPCs should have.
For example, I recently had some demonic monkeyfolk riding pterodactyls attack my PCs' airship. I had changed their breath weapon from fire to thunder so their brand new airship wouldn't explode on their first flight. My PCs began targeting the mounts instead of the riders, so I just on-the-fly gave the demon monkeys a Reaction (immediate action) that let them throw their harpoons at the ship to prevent falling to their deaths. So, instead of killing half a dozen CR 1/4 critters, they also had to deal with the CR 2 riders as well.
DMing/GMing can be hard. It's one brain running multiple NPCs v multiple brains each focusing a single PC. GMs are going to make mistakes. Talking $#!+ about how tough your NPC is, and then bragging about his treasures, are mistakes one and two. Speak to your GM about your frustrations and trust concerns.
Odd I did the same thing in Pathfinder and the world did not come to a end...my players did not Lynch me...the game did not crash and burn.
Anyway I think you missed the post of the 'NPCs' who Caan kill 10 guys with one shot post...there is a pattern of bad behavior here that goes beyond just a mistake or two.
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Find another campaign because this one is giving me a ulcer
Bragging and bating is bad
Whipping shit away from PCS post brag and bait is bad
Super OP dmpc is bad
Like seriously I'm not sure how to make this more annoying.
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Find another campaign because this one is giving me a ulcer
Bragging and bating is bad
Whipping s~&~ away from PCS post brag and bait is bad
Super OP dmpc is badLike seriously I'm not sure how to make this more annoying.
Badass GMPC is a kender.
Badass GMPC is a kender.Find another campaign because this one is giving me a ulcer
Bragging and bating is bad
Whipping s~&~ away from PCS post brag and bait is bad
Super OP dmpc is badLike seriously I'm not sure how to make this more annoying.
Every NPC is blatantly stolen from an anime.
Remind your GM of Rule #1 of being a Dungeon Master and that is to never fall in love with your NPCs. Sometimes an end boss turns out to be a nice difficult encounter like we all know and love and other times, the PCs just stomp them into the mud. Either result is fine.
More to the point, it's not possible to use more than 2 magic rings at the same time in the first place.
It's possible by RAW to have four active at the same time with a hand of glory (already mentioned) and a ten-ring sword. Also, rings can be made (at double normal market price) with "No space limitation." [/tangent]
From the OP, the GM made some bad decisions to try and "force" the outcome of the encounter, then made some more to avoid the consequences when the results were not what he expected. Personally, if this is a habit of the GM, I'd stop playing in those games.
A "veteran DM" should know how to make a supposed-to-lose fight. And if the PCs still overcome the challenge, they are to be rewarded. Messing with custom items? Ok, moving into bad territory. Never a good idea to make custom items without full rules mastery to judge power and cost. Equipping multiple rings? Ok, now we're straight up breaking rules. Immune to "crit fails"? Those aren't even IN the rules. And now multiple GMPCs that steal the alleged-protagonist's thunder. If the GM wanted to play by himself, no one is stopping him. Advise that he take this epic story he had planned and go write a book. This wasn't a story for players.
I just wanted to ask, did anybody else picture the pirate captain as Liberace with an eyepatch?
your DM made a mistake and under estimated to power of your group. and for all you know the BBEG could have gotten away with his rings vowing revenge on those dirty adventurers. and that person you just murdered was polymophed/body swapped cabin's boy. and that's why he had such poor loot. the evil guys can and will mess over their minions. they are after all expendable.
That'd be a stupid plot twist to add to an already large pile of stupid plot twists this GM has thrown out.
The best thing that the GM can do right now is drop the whole thing and move on, never addressing it again.
your DM made a mistake and under estimated to power of your group. and for all you know the BBEG could have gotten away with his rings vowing revenge on those dirty adventurers. and that person you just murdered was polymophed/body swapped cabin's boy. and that's why he had such poor loot. the evil guys can and will mess over their minions. they are after all expendable.That'd be a stupid plot twist to add to an already large pile of stupid plot twists this GM has thrown out.
The best thing that the GM can do right now is drop the whole thing and move on, never addressing it again.
Not only is that a stupid plot twist, it's a logically impossible one, since A. The Pirate, presumably, isn't a spellcaster, so magical disguises couldn't be done, and B. The PCs will have seen through the ruse well before it became an issue if it was done mundanely, and the Pirate most likely would've died anyway.
A better twist would be the Pirate rises as an Undead soon after his defeat to vow revenge, but even that's very stupid, because the entire encounter, as a whole, was executed stupidly, which leaves a sour taste in their mouth, and any attempt to bring similar elements back would be an equal turn-off. And that's assuming the players even stick around after this bunch of stupid bulls#!^.
The best thing that the GM can do, for the whole of his table, is either A. Not GM (until he properly learns from his mistakes, which is doubtful), or B. Find a game for all of his players to enjoy, because, as evidenced so far, Pathfinder clearly isn't that game.
yea you can do that too. but how else will he learn from his mistake if he brushes it under the rug.
your DM made a mistake and under estimated to power of your group. and for all you know the BBEG could have gotten away with his rings vowing revenge on those dirty adventurers. and that person you just murdered was polymophed/body swapped cabin's boy. and that's why he had such poor loot. the evil guys can and will mess over their minions. they are after all expendable.That'd be a stupid plot twist to add to an already large pile of stupid plot twists this GM has thrown out.
The best thing that the GM can do right now is drop the whole thing and move on, never addressing it again.
What's there to learn other than "don't do this again"?
What's there to learn other than "don't do this again"?
Learn what to do instead. Learn better interpersonal skills to get what he wants without making everyone else mad. Learnow to be a better GM.
"Never addressing it again" is a conflict-avoidance technique that means you'll never learn how to deal with the underlying decisions that got you to that point.
And if that's your conflict management style, you're very likely to keep repeating similar errors, losing more and more friendships along the way
Often it's less painful in the long run to stop now and figure out the lessons you could learn by examining such situations
What's there to learn other than "don't do this again"?Learn what to do instead. Learn better interpersonal skills to get what he wants without making everyone else mad. Learnow to be a better GM.
"Never addressing it again" is a conflict-avoidance technique that means you'll never learn how to deal with the underlying decisions that got you to that point.
And if that's your conflict management style, you're very likely to keep repeating similar errors, losing more and more friendships along the way
Often it's less painful in the long run to stop now and figure out the lessons you could learn by examining such situations
I think I'm being misunderstood. I'm talking about never addressing it again within the context of the game. As in "everyone in the game forgets the pirate ever existed".
It was all just a nightmare....
FTFY, considering how the encounter went.
B. Find a game for all of his players to enjoy, because, as evidenced so far, Pathfinder clearly isn't that game.
I think the problem with this GM goes beyond system.
B. Find a game for all of his players to enjoy, because, as evidenced so far, Pathfinder clearly isn't that game.I think the problem with this GM goes beyond system.
Never said it didn't. But I never said it did, either.
Option B would give confirmation of such information, and would determine whether gaming with him/her at all is worthwhile.