Except you can do a full ranged attack action while your mount is moving, so clearly you aren't taking any move actions at all using the ride skill to have your mount move. In fact, there's nothing in the rules against your mount taking a full move action, you using the ride skill to dismount as a free action, and then taking a double move yourself.
Let's look at some of the uses of the ride skill:
So most of the time when you're using a mount in combat, unless that mount isn't combat trained, you aren't using a move action to do so. I'm not really sure what Skip was getting at since it doesn't seem accurate according to RAW. And there certainly doesn't seem to be any prohibition against dismounting and taking move actions to move after your mount has completed its movement.
Moving provokes AoOs. 'Being moved' does not. If you are riding an animal, you are 'being moved,' just as if you're in a wagon or on a boat. If a boat or wagon is moving you past an enemy, do they get an AoO, or do you get one since, relatively, they are moving past you?
The thing that decides who is 'moving' past the other is the one that is taking the action to move, which is what provokes.
How is an item that cures 1 hp. per round with the limitation that you can't move at all equivalent to an item that cures 1d8+1 without that limitation?
One way to cure 90% of the problems with custom items that supposedly 'break' the game is just to disallow unlimited uses of spell effects that have instantaneous durations. If they want more than 5 uses per day, they just have to pay the cost proportionally.
Ferious Thune wrote:
The word cast does not appear in the flight hex.
At 3rd level, she can cast levitate once per day.
Does casting levitate by using the flight hex provoke or not?
The wording for flying using the flight hex is nearly identical to the wording in the Alchemist EX wings ability.
To me, this means what 'grants' the ability to fly is supernatural in one case, but extraordinary in the other, but the use of the ability should be the same in both.
: The alchemist gains bat-like, bird-like, or insect-like functional wings, allowing him to fly as the fly spell for a number of minutes per day equal to his caster level.
Being supernaturally light, versus having extraordinary 'wings'. Yet the ability to fly uses the same verbiage.
So, both use an action to activate, neither? Or one does and one doesn't besides being nearly identical in description?
Except for levitate, which gives the ability to 'cast' the spell. Casting is still a standard action.
_Ozy_, you activate the fly portion of the hex as a standard action, the levitate portion of the hex as a standard action, the feather fall portion of the hex as an immediate action, and you have the +4 racial bonus to Swim as a constant passive for having the Flight hex.
There is absolutely no support in the rules for this interpretation. There is only one Flight Hex, you either activate it to gain access to its abilities, or you do not.
If you have access to the +4 swim bonus by 'having' the flight hex, why do you not have access to the flight ability simply by 'having' the flight hex, similar to the Alchemist ability?
To me, that makes no sense. The bonus from swim is PART of the hex. If the hex isn't active, no bonus. Where does it say a hex can only be 'partially' active? Where does it say you can get the bonus from an inactive hex?
To me, the way to read it that makes sense is that the Flight hex is ALWAYS active, which means those benefits are always active. And, like the alchemist flight ability, you can choose to utilize the flight portion as you like without using a standard action to actrivate the hex that must already be active.
I realize that I'm repeating myself here, and am unlikely to convince those who think differently, but I'm a bit curious as to where the rules say you can get a bonus from an inactive, or partially active hex.
The Effect of the hex is quoted above. How can you get the Effect from a hex that isn't active?
You guys are assuming the answer without providing support.
If you can 'activate' the flight hex to gain the racial bonus, and thereafter gain that ability without having to spend extra standard actions, then you can 'activate' the flight hex to gain the ability to fly, and use it as you like within the time limits described by the ability.
The wording for the flight ability is nearly identical to that of the alchemist wings, so nothing in that wording suggests that you need to take a standard action to start flying once the flight hex is active.
This is unlike the levitate ability which specifically calls out the need to cast a spell, which is of course a standard action.
The only difference between the alchemist flight and the witch ex flight is that the Hex is itself an SU, while the Wings are EX. Thus, one might argue that 'activating' the Hex is a standard action compared to the Wings. But if the Hex isn't active, then you don't get the +4 bonus, correct?
So, if the Hex is active all the time, such that you get the bonus, then why wouldn't it be active and allow flight since the wording is the same as the Wings ability, since you are't actually 'activating' the hex each time you want to fly?
Effect: At 1st level, the witch can use feather fall at will and gains a +4 racial bonus on Swim checks. At 3rd level, she can cast levitate once per day. At 5th level, she can fly, as per the spell, for a number of minutes per day equal to her level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments. This hex only affects the witch.
Does this mean a witch needs to take a standard action to get +4 to swim checks?
If it happens more than 5% of the time, you need to recheck your dice.
Nonetheless, that's irrelevant to the pricing, which should be considered the absolute floor. Which means, given standard wealth by level guidelines, you shouldn't be able to get your hands on this type of item until level 13 at the earliest.
Personally, when it comes to spells that have 'instantaneous', single effects (true strike, CLW, etc...) I think a better way to handle it is to use the 5 uses/day as equivalent to unlimited use, in that you never allow unlimited uses for these types of effects. If they want more than 5 uses per day, they have to keep scaling up the price accordingly.
It's because it's one of the specific examples used in the book, and people get fixated on the comparison without understanding the difference between a constant +20 to hit, and an 'activated' +20 to hit, whether it's a standard or swift action.
Clearly, a swift action true strike isn't as powerful as a constant +20 to hit as you only get it on 1 attack per round, and have to use a swift action to do so.
Nonetheless, you should, at the very minimum, pay for the effective 'spell cost' for the item, which would be:
1800 * 5 * 9 = 81k
Now, whether 81k is too cheap for an item that uses a swift action to guarantee a single attack hits probably can only be determined through gameplay, but there aren't very many items that are more expensive than that.
As for people insisting that this is equivalent to a constant +20 to hit, just ignore them.
I thought this was against the unwritten rules regarding hands. If you use your 'offhand' to provide extra damage for two-handed attacks, then it can't be used for a two-weapon extra attack...or something like that.
You can at most get 1.5 str damage for non-iterative attacks, which is either 1.5 from 2handed, or 1 + 0.5 from two weapon.
I think the devs have talked about this somewhere.
That's because the two weapon fighting rules specify a 2nd weapon in the off hand, which disallows the same weapon in the off hand.
Also, what makes you think you can take an action in the middle of an action?
Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.
You can certainly free action drop a weapon, and free action quick-draw another weapon while taking a full round attack.
As a father of a created 'spawn' I'm pretty sure I'm far less powerful now compared to before I had it :P.
Less facetiously, I think the idea of 'no ability to grow more powerful' has to be fairly narrowly read as: can't gain experience or otherwise increase in level.
Giving a simulacrum a magical weapon makes it more powerful, does that mean it can't wield a magical weapon? Can a simulacrum of a wizard not copy new spells into a spellbook? Can a simulacrum not make friends with a powerful being, thus gaining an ally (very close to the 'spawn' issue)? Does a simulacrum with the leadership ability, who gets an item boosting CHR, not gain new followers? Can a simulacrum of a summoner not summon any creatures, or their eidolon? There are nearly an infinite number of ways for a simulacrum to 'become more powerful', and I can't imagine that they all are off limits, or really any of them beyond the narrow interpretation already mentioned.
Um, it's right in the part you quoted, I highlighted it for you.
I agree that's not what the spells says, which is why the FAQ makes no sense when it comes to mirror image. It's inconsistent, that's the whole problem.
Targeted spells have the same 20%/20% miss chance if the attacker can see invisible or affect the ethereal plane somehow.
And once again, using your formula, then why doesn't someone who neither can see invisible nor affect ethereal apply a 20% before and 20% after instead of a 50% chance?
And if he does indeed do that, that's a lot less than the normal 50% miss chance.
You realize that 2 20% miss chances are far worse for the caster than a 50% miss chance. It ends up being a total of a 36% miss chance. I have no idea why the Blink spell breaks out the math like that, but if they wanted to actually have it work out right, it should be 30% and 30% separately, and 50% together.
Pathfinder Design Team wrote:
You only have a 20% miss chance from being on the ethereal plane, as per the spell. The other part of the miss chance has to do with concealment. Someone who can see invisibility (but can't attack ethereal creatures) only has a 20% miss chance.
So, once again, if part of the blink chance is due to being on the ethereal plane, and part is due to concealment, how does this interact with mirror image?
I mean, this point has already been brought up in this thread, so I don't understand the FAQ with regard to blink at all. It's not consistent.
Again, the question is not the initiation of the grapple. Attacks that take but a moment obviously don't need the wielder to remain material.
However, once a grappler becomes ethereal, there is simply no question that the grapple ends. Blink provides no mechanism to avoid this fact. There are no rules that allow an ethereal person to remain grappled with a material opponent, they simply can't affect him. It's as if they are not even there.
The fact that a given scenario is written without this consideration is neither surprising, nor particularly relevant.
The only, and I mean only, difference between 'being ethereal' and 'being ethereal some of the time' is exactly that, the duration.
While you are ethereal 'some of the time' you cannot grapple a material creature while you are ethereal. Any condition which makes you unable to grapple a creature must remove the grappled condition.
Blink absolutely does not have to 'make a special exception' to lose the grappled condition, this is the default when you become ethereal. Instead, it needs to provide a special exception to allow the maintenance of the grappled condition when you become ethereal.
It does not provide this exception. Therefore, once you become ethereal, the grapple ends. I'm not sure why this is being debated.
When you become ethereal, you can no longer be grappling a creature. This is how the rules work. Blink does not provide any special exception to this rule.
So, according to you, an grappler is teleported away, target still has the grappled condition.
A grappler is turned ethereal, target still has the grappled condition.
A grappler is killed, target still has the grappled condition.
I'm pretty sure my sense is a bit more common than yours.
That's not 'realism', that's applying a modicum of common sense to a rules set that is not comprehensive enough to handle every single edge case.
You don't have to make a check to maintain a grapple, but you certainly can't maintain a grapple if, when it's not your turn:
you get teleported
Do you disagree?
Because it says you can make attacks, of which grapple is one.
I'm not talking about making a CMB check when it's your turn. I'm talking about maintaining a grapple when it isn't your turn.
That isn't an attack, is it? If someone turns a grappler ethereal, he loses his grapple, as you already have admitted. Blink has no rule that sidesteps this fact.
So the blink spell defines what ethereal can and can't do, including what it overcomes. Such as the 20% miss chance on attacks, which grapples are.
No, a blink spell tells you what you can do when you rapidly shift back and forth from ethereal to normal.
Since it doesn't say you can maintain a grapple while becoming ethereal, why would you think that you can?
From the ethereal condition:
Again, the same thing that would prevent someone who becomes ethereal from maintaining a grapple would prevent a blinking person from maintaining a grapple.
Huh? The blink spell clearly says that the person becomes ethereal, it has no specific language that overrides the fact that ethereal people can't maintain grapples on creature in the prime material plane.
The fact that blink allows someone to attack with a 20% miss chance has nothing to do with that. If something happens to a grappler that changes their condition: they fall unconscious, they turn ethereal, they get teleported, it absolutely can break or nullify any grapple they might have. Therefore, unless the blink spell specifically has a rule about how an blinking, ethereal person can maintain a grapple, they can't maintain a grapple.
Mostly because the blink spell gives rules for attacking targets when ethereal, so since grapple is an attack it falls under those rules. 20% to maintain a grapple, since there is no clause in the rules that I am aware of that requires the grapple be maintained all round long.
Really? So, if someone used a spell to turn a grappler ethereal, they would still maintain their grapple until it's their turn?
That seems a bit far-fetched to me.
Well, that applies to 100% of the rules discussed here.
That said, the purpose of the forum is to try and actually figure out how things work, not restate the obvious point that the GM's word is law, no?
So, if during someone's turn, they can attack their grappler and miss because their grappler is ethereal, then how can they actually be grappled, since someone who is ethereal can't actually grapple someone on the material plane?
No, the rules don't actually 'say so'. People think that the rules imply it is not the same thing.
Someone who is ethereal can't interact with the material plane. If a grappler is ethereal, he can't maintain a grapple. When you are blinking, you turn ethereal, therefore you can't maintain a grapple.
That's what the 'rules say', or at least, that's certainly a valid interpretation of the rules.
There is nothing in the rules that allow an ethereal person to maintain a grapple if he's only ethereal 'part of the time'.
Huh? So, someone who is grappled and attacks the blinking character can miss because the character is ethereal, but is still grappled because...why exactly?
So, if someone has mirror image up with blink, instead of rolling one 50% miss chance, you have to roll a 20% miss chance to check if an image has a chance to be popped, and then roll what to see if the character is missed?
How does the creature maintain a grapple when the grappled creature has a 50% chance to move 5' away during its turn? And that's if it had to pass through 5' of grappling creature?
Re-positioning appendages doesn't help if the 'grappled' creature moves out of your reach while you are ethereal.
The blink is erratic enough that attempting to walk through solid material may or may not cause splinching.
You're reading more into the rules than is actually there.
My bad on the CMB, didn't read far enough.
Yes, blinking does not 'guarantee' that you can walk through solid objects, but a 50% chance per 5' means you have a pretty good shot of phasing through somebody's 6" arm.
And this works with blink exactly how?
Grab requires an additional attack roll in the form of a combat maneuver check. Attack rolls are subject to miss chance. Therefore, you roll for miss chance if the grab would otherwise succeed.
Combat maneuver checks aren't attack rolls.
You can totally grapple while blinking. Grapple checks are subject to 20% miss chance, including checks to maintain the grapple. If you like, you can think of the miss chance as representing the difficulty of reestablishing your grip after you blink out and back in in the blink of an eye.
If you can walk though solid material while blinking, solid material can walk through you while blinking.
Given that if you get attacked 100 times, every other attack could theoretically miss because of being ethereal, the blinking must be relatively rapid. On the other hand, blink lets you walk though solid material, so it can't be that rapid.
Except the rules say that you can't stealth when you ARE observed, not that you can become unobserved by stealthing.
And it doesn't matter how many shadowy figures there are, he could be the only figure that you 'see'. You can target that figure with a spell, thus you must be able to observe that figure.
The issue is that if you can perceive someone well enough to target them with a spell in 20% concealment, or +4 cover (like a dimly lit room, or peeking out from a corner), then why isn't that person being 'observed' and thus unable to stealth?
How do you target someone with a spell unless you can observe them?