Dick move by the DM


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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_Ozy_ wrote:
It was all just a dream....

Now I'm just imagining the PC's waking up the next day;

P1: dang that was a bad nights sleep...

P2: Wait, did you have the dream of a crazy pirate captain too?...

P3: The one that went crazy, attacked us and let his crew slack off then ran away, went crazy and threw away his valuables to spite us?

P4: That was a bad dream...

P1: That was a terrible dream

P2: That dream was the Worst

P3: That was a Nightmare

P4: I'm Awake!?!

God(GM):let it go already...


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
B. Find a game for all of his players to enjoy, because, as evidenced so far, Pathfinder clearly isn't that game.
I think the problem with this GM goes beyond system.

Never said it didn't. But I never said it did, either.

Option B would give confirmation of such information, and would determine whether gaming with him/her at all is worthwhile.

True I can see that point.


Funny thing, what with detect magic being at will, and the fact that the water there can only be a few feet deep, recovering the rings should be a snap.


DrDeth wrote:
Funny thing, what with detect magic being at will, and the fact that the water there can only be a few feet deep, recovering the rings should be a snap.

Note the emphasis.

GM would probably still adhoc some bulls#! about the rings being underneath sand (which is just broken-down rocks and stone) too far to be detected, or that the water carried the rings away too fast for the PCs to catch up.

At least, based on what's been posted, that would be in-character for him to do.


That makes way too much sense.
What if they were swallowed by a giant whale while nobody was looking?

The GM doesn't sound very experienced indeed. I've met some experienced GMs with this kind of flaws and they might never overcome them, these are worse than the new ones.

I'm not saying «run from that game», but if this happens too often and you are not enjoying, it's time to look for alternatives. Maybe running a written AP or module will help him to keep things more balanced and to have a guide on what to do and what.not to do.


'Party must lose' encounters are the kinds of things one should use exceedingly rarely, I think. It innately breaks the normal 'trust' of 'the PCs should have a chance at handling this', and it's not a flavour of fun most people like. Doesn't one of the adventure paths start off with you already press-ganged onto a ship if that's the goal?

I'll admit to falling into the 'cool GMPC' trap once while running 2d edition. Still something to look out for.

One thing to do here might be to talk to the GM about just what he was trying to accomplish here. It's hard to help him improve if you don't know what he was aiming for. (And if it was worth aiming for too..)


Qaianna wrote:
Doesn't one of the adventure paths start off with you already press-ganged onto a ship if that's the goal?

Skull and Shackles, and at least it just starts with the backstory having been you failed a save vs a knockout poison. Instead of having the PCs roll and just setting the DC at "Whatever the highest player rolled +1. And 20s don't count.".

And you can do whatever you want from there. Granted the captain is level 16 so your chances of winning in a fight are nil, but that's at least borne out by the rules.

When I started my game I wanted to make that clear, so I had him make an open challenge to anyone who wanted to face him. The PC that took him up on that almost sorta managed to land a hit (he rolled an 18) so he got a bit of street cred.


Qaianna wrote:

'Party must lose' encounters are the kinds of things one should use exceedingly rarely, I think. It innately breaks the normal 'trust' of 'the PCs should have a chance at handling this', and it's not a flavour of fun most people like. Doesn't one of the adventure paths start off with you already press-ganged onto a ship if that's the goal?

You do the whole PC must loose fights...there certain adventures types than be only run for the PCS to start by loosing. Also players should be able to trust that the GM is setting them up to loose for a reason.

However you should always go in with a plan for what if the PCs win.


I think S&S is different because it all happens as character's background. Same in WotW. Skull and Shackles never forces characters, it only enforces a sensation of «It's not the time yet. We'll have to wait until the right moment»
Giving the PCs situations that they cannot handle at that time so they have to wait is not the same that pushing them into an impossible situation.
In S&S any issue that the PCs can have at the beginning of the adventure will be solved either at the end of book 1 or in book 5.
Same with WotW.


DrDeth wrote:

Funny thing, what with detect magic being at will, and the fact that the water there can only be a few feet deep, recovering the rings should be a snap. [/QUOTE

Tried detect magic!!!! But before he could let us attempt he said "no point the current carried them away"


You got conned bruv. Find a more fun game.


jcdman1 wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
Funny thing, what with detect magic being at will, and the fact that the water there can only be a few feet deep, recovering the rings should be a snap.
Tried detect magic!!!! But before he could let us attempt he said "no point the current carried them away"

So, I guess that the magic rings were made of ... wood? Gold is heavier than Lead, and would sink just as readily. If the current was really that swift as to carry gold rings away, then the current is too hazardous for ship traffic. This is what happens when munchkins become GMs.


First off, calling it a "dick move" is NOT going to resolve anything and will just entrench people's position as you are insulting them. Nor will poster's comments here really affect your home game.

I'm going to suggest that the GM read GM 101. Really your GM sounds like he should examine his role and how to be successful. It sounds like he broke the sense of fair play, balance, and is more into his cool NPCs than giving the players a game. It sounds like to heighten the drama he upped the power of the bad guy, but was concerned and so included some NPCs with the party to balance the situation. He should know that a CR of APL+3 is challenging. I'd request that he remove all NPCs and run a dungeon crawl or an in theme PFS scenario/module. Your GM is trying and everyone seems content to play, so just hang on as there may be some bumps. Otherwise read GM 101 and run a game yourself.

It is a game and everyone should have fun. Sometimes things are more silly and playful than RAW, and that's okay. The key is do you talk about the game? That shows engagement.
Like a play(tragedy or comedy), there has to be drama and once in awhile someone should cry. Often commenters forget that tragedy is as rewarding as comedy, and tragedies win awards.

On the rings most people have the jist of it but the specifics wrong, a character can use more than 2 rings at once (there are ways via magic items and home game feats) and can wear as many as will fit on their appendages or in piercings. Wear and use are two different things. Still due to cost it is rare to wear more than 3 magical rings. Lastly I think those rings you mentioned are homebrew for the most part (not published material).


I guess your GM is overwhelmed by his task, so he hides behind a shield of self-made rules, ignorance and 'no' saying. Happens outside of GMing too, and it's difficult to address, but not impossible:

1) Show appreciation for his good moves. He is probably not aware they are good moves, according feedback encourages him to bring more of them.

2) Don't criticize his bad moves, but utter wishes. If you just request something, the other person keeps in control and hence in their comfort zone. Sometimes it's surprising how generous and openminded people can become then.

3) GM yourself but never say anything that points to a competition between your GMing and his. Then it's his decision to copy good moves. You might even get some productive GM to GM talk - good for both sides.

Keep in mind every GM messes up at some point. If they are confident they are doing well otherwise, it's easy for them to admit it and look for solutions (preferably together with the players). But if they are not, it's much harder for them and for you it's more likely to encounter erratic behavior.

That said, I totally encourage you, jcdman1, to try GMing yourself. Start with something simple, read whatever you can and keep an eye on players' reactions. Perfect GMing doesn't exist, but good GMing is a thing many people can learn.


There may be only two "magic" rings. The rest may only be regular rings treated with prestidigitation to keep them shiny. The regular rings would register as magic, since they are under the effects of a spell.


This GM does indeed sound bad.

jcdman1 wrote:
The annoying thing is these are the only guys I know that play pathfinder. If I walk from the table I just forfeit playing D&D. But that's why I thought about DM'ing my own campaign. I'm just afraid that it won't be great because I wanna do a skyrim campaign. One of my friends is a munchkin and my current DM is a power gamer.

This may very well be your best bet - the world can always use more good GMs. As people have said, look around for other groups, and don't be afraid to not invite the current GM to your new game if they're as bad a player as a GM. (Don't rub their face in it, just don't tell them about it.)

Silver Crusade

sounds poorly run, there are ways to make it much easier...

Also 12 rings...

*counts fingers*

ummm...
was this captain six-fingers or something?

Now if I had been GM I would have spent the first half of the fight bombarding the shore with canons, then sent a crew in. Maybe have some magic on the guy so he's got some undead minions or summoned minions to chew through. And once the party is tired out from dealing with all that b@&@%+@#, THEN swoop in for the kill. That way the guy wouldn't have had to have been overpowered.

What I'm saying is that he shoulda fought smart, not stupid-cheatingly OP.


Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

sounds poorly run, there are ways to make it much easier...

Also 12 rings...

*counts fingers*

ummm...
was this captain six-fingers or something?

Uhm... Toe rings? Nose ring? Many rings in one finger? Pirates love jewelry xD


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd say the most egregious foul by the GM isn't giving the character some crazy OP abilities, but that he opened the encounter by saying that if the party beat the pirate boss they'd get a ton of good items, then denied any rewards when they actually managed to win. To me at least, that's what really shifts the whole thing to looking like a GM temper tantrum.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kileanna wrote:
Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

sounds poorly run, there are ways to make it much easier...

Also 12 rings...

*counts fingers*

ummm...
was this captain six-fingers or something?

Uhm... Toe rings? Nose ring? Many rings in one finger? Pirates love jewelry xD

OH DEAR ELDER-GODS WHY DID MY BRAIN GO THERE OF ALL PLACES!!!! *seeks brain-bleach*

JUST NO!
...
But brilliant.

*wanders off cackling*


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mystic_Snowfang wrote:
Kileanna wrote:
Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

sounds poorly run, there are ways to make it much easier...

Also 12 rings...

*counts fingers*

ummm...
was this captain six-fingers or something?

Uhm... Toe rings? Nose ring? Many rings in one finger? Pirates love jewelry xD

OH DEAR ELDER-GODS WHY DID MY BRAIN GO THERE OF ALL PLACES!!!! *seeks brain-bleach*

JUST NO!
...
But brilliant.

*wanders off cackling*

What is wrong with a Prince Albert?

Silver Crusade

thorin001 wrote:
Mystic_Snowfang wrote:
Kileanna wrote:
Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

sounds poorly run, there are ways to make it much easier...

Also 12 rings...

*counts fingers*

ummm...
was this captain six-fingers or something?

Uhm... Toe rings? Nose ring? Many rings in one finger? Pirates love jewelry xD

OH DEAR ELDER-GODS WHY DID MY BRAIN GO THERE OF ALL PLACES!!!! *seeks brain-bleach*

JUST NO!
...
But brilliant.

*wanders off cackling*

What is wrong with a Prince Albert?

Was thinking less permanent...

But also cursed.

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