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never never never ever play good and evil characters in the same party. It never works out.
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Steal/sunder his holy symbol in the surprise round and get rid of any spares he might have beforehand.
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never never never ever play good and evil characters in the same party. It never works out.
It can work if you do the following:
* Paladin has Int 7, and no ranks in sense motive
* Evil player has non-dectable alignment
* Campaign has lots of "evil" infections as par for the course (Carrion Crown)
* Evil player's goal is still the same as the Paladin
* Evil player never does anything against Paladin's code known by the Paladin
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Too late for that, I just need to kill him now
If the campaign as a whole is lawful good, you need to retire your inappropriate character and play something that fits into the party and campaign.
If you continue with your current idea, you will end up without a party, without a campaign, and possibly without your (presumed) friends in real life too.
On the other hand, if all the players and the GM now want to end the game in a major intra-party battle, go ahead.
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Too late for that, I just need to kill him nowIf the campaign as a whole is lawful good, you need to retire your inappropriate character and play something that fits into the party and campaign.
If you continue with your current idea, you will end up without a party, without a campaign, and possibly without your (presumed) friends in real life too.
On the other hand, if all the players and the GM now want to end the game in a major intra-party battle, go ahead.
Seconded.
PVP is BAD.
Unless yyou're playing an arena style game, PVP is ALWAYS BAD.
Lemme break it down for you.
You kill his cleric.
He gets pissed that you killed his cleric.
He brings in a new character.
He kills your character.
You get pissed that he killed your character.
You bring in a new character to kill his new character.
Everyone at the table gets pissed off at everyone else.
Real life fights break out.
Feelings are hurt.
People get angry.
Your group splits.
People don't talk to eachother again for YEARS.
Some people never pick up the hobby again.
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Cleric already has a new character rolled and I don't think he cares that much, he's the only one I want to kill really. The Gunslinger and Monk will just have to be incapacitated probably. I want to become the antagonist and then see if I can make reparations with everybody.
We're having the type of campaign where we end up in fighting and conflicting interests all the time.
Just get him in his sleep. coup de grace.
simple.
Cleric already has a new character rolled and I don't think he cares that much, he's the only one I want to kill really. The Gunslinger and Monk will just have to be incapacitated probably. I want to become the antagonist and then see if I can make reparations with everybody.
We're having the type of campaign where we end up in fighting and conflicting interests all the time.
What are the Gunslinger and Monk's alignments?
Cause I don't know about you, but I'm not going to make amends with someone who kills one of my friends.At best, I'll play along til I can coup-de-grace him in the night with a pistol shot to the head.
He's level 7, I'm not sure how we're gonna do the 67 or so damage in one hit to him. We have a rogue but he's on the fence on this whole thing. Also currently we're separated into Rogue solo, Gunslinger solo, Cleric and Monk duo, Wizard, Barb and Fighter trio, and Me (Necromancer) solo (not counting my babys)
Also the Wizard knows where I am going so we could all reconvene (2 Wizards, Fighter and a 4 levels lower Barbarian) while the rogue is lost to everyone and the gunslinger knows where to meet up with the Cleric and Monk (Which is basically splitting the party into us 4 evils and those 3 goods with the neutral running around by himself)
You could always hire some outside help... :D Ask the GM about mercenary prices.
Maybe I'm just not seeing it but did you mention what your own class was? I assume a wizard with the necromancy school but you could be something else. Either way the easiest (though less fun) way is just to coup de grace him in his sleep as others mentioned above. I wouldn't do it this way though as the player would be more likely to be angry for needlessly killing his character without a chance to fight back.
In combat the best way (as others have also mentioned) is to sunder his holy symbol to deny him both spells and channeling. Do note that if you plan to surprise him, clerics often have very high perception modifiers.
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First, I seriously recommend sitting down with everyone involved, this means all other players including the cleric, your GM, and yourself and discussing this in a adult manner outside of game.
Asking questions like:
Where is this game going?
What are the goals for this game, for each person?
Are we deliberately heading for a internal conflict?
Is everyone OK with PVP?
If one character kills another does that character become an NPC and does the player need to create a new character?
What is acceptable behavior for characters? (Some games for instance deliberately do not discuss themes such as Racism, The dichotomy of Murder and Killing, or other things some players/GMs do not want to deal with/feel uncomfortable with.)
Basically get a solid statement from all involved about their wants and intentions. If everyone involved is happy with the idea of internal party conflict and PVP then enjoy and good luck.
If not however, it may be best to have a discussion about how you all can compromise and get a cooperative play style you all like.
If some individuals cannot agree then the group may need to split to allow for two different playstyles.
I hope this helps and please understand I am not trying to attack or condemn you, this is simply the best advice I feel I can give you in this situation.
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Oh it can work out. If you play it Smart Evil with long-reaching plans, and not violent short-sighted ally-stabbing Evil.
It is important that the Evil-character did not dump his mental stats, and is not overt with his evilness.
P.S.
Coup-de-grace him in his sleep. And all of your "companions" who might revive / revenge him.
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Wait, so he's giving you a chance to get off scot free, and your response is "I'll kill him!"? ... That's short-sighted, to say the least. Why just lie to him and get off scot free? That is appropriately self-interested for an evil character, in my mind.
This is something that needs to be worked out on the player side. Are you all happy with a game that has PvP? If some people really don't like that, then it's a bad idea with this group.
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Sounds comlplicated. Maybe just let the whole thing go and continue the actual adventure?
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I think you have a greater problem than killing a cleric.
I think your group has missed the point of cooperative roleplaying. I recommend playing a game where character conflict is encouraged.
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The whole "I'm evil in a party of good and I must
kill or thwart my party members" seems childish to me...just my 2 cents
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Just keep in mind that while people might not mind that their character gets killed it is another thing to have your character get killed by another player. It might just start more trouble than it's worth.
Other than that, the most obvious way but also the most crappy for the other player is killing him in his sleep. If I'd steer to be the antagonist in the campaign I'd not try too hard to kill my fellow players but build a difficult but possible way for them to fight back.
Desecrate his holy temple, raise the priests from the dead and use them to exact your vengeance in a carefully planned ambush. That will help making you your preferred status of antagonist and much more fun for the other player.
Just keep in mind that while people might not mind that their character gets killed it is another thing to have your character get killed by another player. It might just start more trouble than it's worth.
Other than that, the most obvious way but also the most crappy for the other player is killing him in his sleep. If I'd steer to be the antagonist in the campaign I'd not try too hard to kill my fellow players but build a difficult but possible way for them to fight back.
Desecrate his holy temple, raise the priests from the dead and use them to exact your vengeance in a carefully planned ambush. That will help making you your preferred status of antagonist and much more fun for the other player.
Yeah, animate his family as zombies!
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never never never ever play good and evil characters in the same party. It never works out.It can work if you do the following:
* Paladin has Int 7, and no ranks in sense motive
* Evil player has non-dectable alignment
* Campaign has lots of "evil" infections as par for the course (Carrion Crown)
* Evil player's goal is still the same as the Paladin
* Evil player never does anything against Paladin's code known by the Paladin
I can imagine it can also work out if you have well developed and interrelated backgrounds and a decent grasp on non-stereotype roleplaying.
Typically, I would want an overriding connection between the characters that can bypass the alignment problem. Family ties seems like a fairly simple one- two brothers with very different views of the world, but they still care enough about eachother to work together. That gives an immediately understandable relationship which preclude the obvious question "Why don't I just kill this guy?"
For an example- One brother is a knight in shining armor that always tries to use diplomacy first, even if he suspects he might be betrayed. But he gives them a chance. The other brother is a rogu-ish type, perhaps a bounty hunter. The second brother has had to deal with the scum of society, and he may have been burned in the past by people he tried to protect (maybe a bounty with a sob story that he decided to try to help...that stole his wallet the next morning). He thinks the first brother is a fool for giving people a chance, since he thinks they will often try to stab him in the back.
The first brother is trying to help the second with trust issues, while the second tries to help the first 'wise up' and avoid getting burned. Both are acting on very different assumptions about the world, but their motivations are in fact very similar- they are helping their brother. And thus, you can get rather good conflict when they are taking different routes to the same ends.
But of course...all of this requires a lot of effort and investment. Maybe a bit much for a typical beer and pretzels style game. So as a general guide- yeah, probably avoid these opposites of the moral spectrum. Only do it with mature players that can develop a sound understanding and agreement beforehand.
@ the OP,
Never forget, revenge is a dish best served cold, play things smooth, as others have noted, go with the flow for a while, be a good team player, play nice with the cleric for a good long while.
BUT, all the while, use your WBL and whatever else you gain over 3-4 levels (if the game is gong that far) to prepare, stockpile dead creatures for animate dead in strategic spots. Quietly and slowly invest in items that protect you from your goodly "allies" or enhance your abilities as a necromancer. Hire mercenaries, bribe/control monsters,etc.
Once your evil plan and preparations are ready, likely it has taken long enough that the cleric may have come to terms with you, may even think you are at least a feasible ally (may be good to get some social skill enhancing spells if you can, or at least consumables of such like scrolls just in case)
And then just wait for the right moment, say in the midst a a pitched battle (mayhaps with those merc you hired to attack the party) set you evil plans in motion and watch the shock and jaws drop.
(as an important note, I do not suggest going this route if any of the PC's involved will take this badly as players, however their characters reactions should not factor in. But if you fellows players and GM are actually fine with PvP and nasty down and dirty PC interactions, then, your golden, and you may find everyone has fun, hell Way of the Wicked, that I am playing in now, is all about EVIL, and it has a ton of 5 star reviews. Nothing wrong with evil or PvP, just has to be handled correctly and with enough tact to avoid pointless OOC drama and bad blood)
@ HWalsh,
Not trying to be a jerk here man, but the OP is not playing in your home game, thus comments like "I would kick you out" are sort of pointless, and in poor taste. I will reference a famous fantasy novel group, the Companion of the Lance. Wies and Hickman write into the Chronicles series a number of events where members of the Companions of the Lance betray each other, for love, for power, because they are soul bound to an evil archemage, etc. Yet, and I agree, those novels are some of the best from their time period. So there is, and has been, a long standing precedent for inter-party conflict, betrayal, and yes, even murder. There are many more examples, but really thats not the point. Point is long as the players and GM are all on the same page with PvP, it is not for any of the rest of us to denote, bad wrong fun, or dog pile on them with "well in my home game I would do X to you, as I do not agree with what you are doing." We are supposed to be an open and welcoming community for gamers, and alas, scolding someone for a different play style is, well, not welcoming. You are entitled to your opinions HWalsh, but the OP is also entitled to not be criticized for not fitting into your version of PF.
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In our last campaign I burned down a church and left the party to deal with it but IRL the cleric was saying he "Might not kill me if I repent and help them put out the fire" which I feel is way too cocky for another player at the same level to be saying to me, so I'm wondering if there's any way to really weaken a cleric (Without access to his food
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
You sound very cocky yourself for wanting to repay a personal slight with death. Since it was "IRL" then you can't use your character's alignment as justification. It's immature to respond to an out-of-game dispute with an in-game retaliation. Moving forward with this plan will result intention in the gaming group. What will you do if the party defends the cleric, or avenged him, and kills your character? I suggest you swallow your pride and think of a reason why your evil character should cooperate with the group, instead of thinking of ways to use a fantasy game to hurt someone in your family by group.
Is PvP acceptable at your table? If you insist on proceeding, just coup de grace him in his sleep.
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Sounds like the worst table to play at. This kind of stuff made me quit gaming for a decade.
Sounds like the worst table to play at. This kind of stuff made me quit gaming for a decade.
it didn't make me quit but it has resulted in some undesirable tension in the short term, the added value in game play was less than nothing.
I'd recommend to steer clear of it, only the killing player will likely consider this even remotely fun, that might be a wrong evaluation but if you are anything but 99% sure I'd just leave it well alone.
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Basically what I get out of this post is NEVER play in a game with NecroMageDroid.
Basically what I get out of this post is NEVER play in a game with NecroMageDroid.
It could be worse. I find it rare to be on a table where everyone is all aligned in-game, forcing too strict a behavior code can be a fun-killer in a fantasy.
That being said, NMD may just be seeking validation for his choice to confirm his desires. I get the feeling the more NMD elaborates, the more he is just seeking approval and proof that his view is the correct one. A Winnar is you, I suppose.
There is no fixing that, and we aren't his DM or thankfully his group for that matter.
Plainly put, the player with the Initiative and takes the first decisive action will win that party conflict. Unless there is an in-game pre-arrangement, if that assassination is too blatant it can lead to tragic consequences A: for the perpetrator & B: the group as infighting can suddenly flare out of control.
If either or tickles his ego, go for it -NMD's posting about it already after all.
As a DM, I am torn between Player Freedom and shepherding my flock of Players. The retaliation cycle is very real as I've gone through it as a bystander. Entertaining, but sometimes people have to go and if this is the impetus, then damn it I am weaving it into the Campaign & Story!
Plus, there's nothing funnier that seeing the conspirator get foiled every now and then.
Kill in sleep is brought up so much it's makes me curious about the posters' natures ^_^... personally I'd allow the enemy to do my work for me and find a way to let or make the opposition do my work for me. There's a lot of finesse work involved, granted, but it can feel so much more rewarding upon success, and its guaranteed that the more dice someone rolls, eventually somebody fails or the enemy crits.
never never never ever play good and evil characters in the same party. It never works out.
I disagree. Playing a chaotic evil murdering psychopath with a bunch of lawful good does not work, but playing an intelligent Lawful evil does work and can be fun.
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never never never ever play good and evil characters in the same party. It never works out.
It works out fine if they are played as though they were people, rather than caricatures of moral/immoral ideal.
@Avaricious
I guess I was kind of seeking some validation. I didn't think almost everyone on this forum would have a strict code of ethics which all instances of a game based entirely on Player Choice must adhere to. Also I only mentioned murder in sleep once, when asking someone else how it worked as I'm not an assassin or even a melee character in my campaign.@Everyone else
Guys I think a lot of you are missing the point of this, the very first post I made I stated I know it's a terrible idea, as in I know this is a terrible idea, but I'd like some suggestions or some friendly reminders of WHY it's a bad idea (And not just in YOUR campaign but from my characters perspective)
Also in case anybody is curious the DnD session has gone on hiatus for exams so we have made 0 progress since I first posted this. I've lost most of my motivation to stir things up and the cleric may have also lost some of his bite over the break. I'm probably going to go back to being generic party member #7 when we restart, so you...
I think the biggest takeaway from the forums is exposure to different playstyles and etiquette. Other forums like GitP are excellent for number crunching and /tg/ would outright outline action-by-action how to assassinate and come out clean, but I believe the finger on the pulse of PF is best in Paizo's Forums. A lot of voices aren't heard fully on the table but come alive when it hits the forums.
Do as you will. I have no qualms against PVP in-game and pursue aggressive PC interactions with the knowledge that it can shake the table apart. For me its that extra bit of realism where "Party Unity" doesn't trump everything for a PC's vested interests and the game can go beyond standard encounters, puzzle solving, and NPC interaction.
Enjoy your "Lancer/Black Horse" trope role -it's more fun for me than the typical party leader. At seven or more players, a little discord is expected and it prevents everyone from being the same generic Swiss Family Robinson personality. Just accept the fact that some viewpoints will bump against yours. Its fine to disagree and vent, but let it stay that way unless you feel you need to let the dice decide.
This may come up when I playtest The Cleaves. The difference is if the party splits up, their chances for survival go down. In your game, how have the real monsters and real bad guys reacted to this infighting? Have they made overtures to your character? An effective villain has been observing the possible threat to his or her plans for some time.
Much of the time, helping a not so good PC get and use certain items or skills will advance the individuals plot. Not all villains have the same goals. The vampire might give you a book of +3 charisma in return for convincing the cleric that the evil high priest is the real menace.
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Too late for that, I just need to kill him now
No, you need to retire your character and play one that isn't an anal orifice.