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Have you tried ROLEPLAYING the situation out? All I see is stat, stat, stat...

BTW, there is an evil alignment you can use in a good campaign. We have a noob playing in his first campaign and he does what he wants to do. We call the alignment "Jayne Evil" (See Firefly or Order of the Stick's Belkar). We recognize that some folks are just out for themselves yet we have learned to control him.

How, you ask, does the Lawful Good Cleric control the Chaotic Evil Rogue/Assassin who wants to start PVP? One sentence:

"The first person who starts a fight with the other party members will NEVER see another healing spell as long as they live."

Question about the Divine Magic subdomain:

Divine Vessel (Su): Whenever you are the target of a divine spell, you can, as a swift action, grant each ally within 15 feet of you a divine boon. This boon grants a +2 bonus on the next attack roll, skill check, or ability check made before the end of their next turn. You can use this ability (3 + Wisdom bonus) times per day.

So, this ability can only be used on your turn as a swift and not a reaction? I was hoping to use this as a domain for my mystic godling (Genius Guide to Mystic Godlings). The description does not state that the "vessel" needs to be targeted by their own spell.

I had to post this here: it's been a while since there has been a fresh post but it's appropiate here.

After defeating Dry'rd and destroying the Tree of Shackled Souls, our party rogue (assassin)(now blind)(desendant of Spellmason) took over the mayorship of the city. The following is her speech to the city (try to identify the original source material):

Citizens of Cauldron, on this day we mark a transition. For three hundred years, this city has stood as the crowning achievement of this region. But there were those who would have destroyed our blessed city, and we took arms to defend of way of life against those who would see our homes destroyed. In doing so, we never suspected that the greatest threat came from within.

The Cagewrights, and some within our own House of Lords, had conspired to create a gateway to the planes of hell, and usher in demons and devils to lay waste to our homes and destroy our beloved city. But the hatred in their hearts could not be hidden forever. At last, there came a day when our enemies showed their true natures.

The Cagewrights hoped to unleash their destructive power against our city by assassinating the head of government and usurping control of the Town Guard. But the aims of the would-be tyrants were valiantly opposed by those without elitist, dangerous powers. Our loyal group of adventurers “The Crucible” contained the insurrection within the Temple of Fiery Sanctum and quelled uprisings within its caverns.

The remaining Cagewrights will be hunted down and defeated. Any collaborators will suffer the same fate. These have been trying times, but we have passed the test.

The battle to save Cauldron has left me scarred, blinded and deformed, but I assure you my resolve has never been stronger. This Battle is over for now. The Cagewrights have been defeated, and their plans have been foiled. We shall now take the battle to them; no longer shall we sit idly by and let them plot our demise. We shall storm their stronghold and wipe them from the face of the realm. We stand on the threshold of a new beginning.

In order to ensure the security and continuing stability, this City’s government will be reorganized into the first Kingdom of Cauldron for a safe and secure society, which I assure you, will last for 1,000 years. A Kingdom that will be ruled by this House of Lords, and a sovereign ruler chosen for life. A Kingdom ruled by the majority, ruled by a new Constitution, and your new Queen.

By bringing the entire region under one law, one language, and the enlightened guidance of one individual, the corruption that plagued this city in its last few years will never again take root. Regional Lords will eliminate the bureaucracy that allowed the Demonic movement to grow unchecked. A strong and growing military will ensure the rule of law.

Under the Kingdom’s New Order, our most cherished beliefs will be safeguarded. We will defend our ideals by force of arms. We will give no ground to our enemies and we will stand together against attacks from within or without. Let the enemies of Cauldron take heed: Those who challenge royal resolve will be crushed.

We have taken on a task that will be difficult, but the people of the Cauldron are ready for the challenge. Because of our efforts, the region has traded war for peace and anarchy for stability. Thousands of beings now look forward to a secure future. The City will grow as more towns, and villages feel the call to join our benevolent Kingdom, from the city gates to the edge of the Wilds and beyond. It is our destiny to cleanse these lands of the evil forces that seek to destroy our way of life, and we the people of Cauldron shall heed that call.

The citizens of Cauldron must do their part. Join our Alliance of Citizens. Become the eyes of the Kingdom by reporting suspected insurrectionists. Travel to the corners of the Wilds to spread the principles of the New Kingdom to every corner of the region. Build monuments and technical wonders that will speak of our glory for generations to come.

The Crucible, and now proudly wearing the name of Knights of Cauldron, have tackled the dangerous work of fighting our enemies on the front lines. Many have sacrificed everything in their devotion to our Kingdom. The citizens of Cauldron would do well to remember their example.

The New Order of peace has triumphed over the shadowy secrecy of shameful magicians. The direction of our course is clear. I will lead our Kingdom to glories beyond imagination. As my first act as your Queen I will have a gateway of trade opened up to the Great City of Sassrine that will provide us the means to rebuild our city, vitalize our economy, and provide arms for our new Royal Army of Cauldron.

We have been tested, but we have emerged stronger. We moved forward as one people - the citizens of the first Kingdom of Cauldron. We will prevail. A thousand years of peace begins today.

The urban druid traveling with the party leans over and says:
"So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."

Xpltvdeleted wrote:

...they are a full 6-7 levels behind other full casters' progression. Not only will this make many of their spells with saving throws very ineffective, but they will lag behind in power (although some of the godling abilities make up for this marginally).

I'm confused about being 6-7 levels behind other full casters??? The EG list looks alot like a typical sorceror progression.

However I can agree with your assumption about the bad saving throws. You forgot to add that the EG and AG both don't suffer arcane spell failure for armor (provided you take the feats to be proficent in such).

I'll just have to be careful about getting beaned with spells while playing my EG...

Uhmmm...I like the product but have one question about a typo/misunderstanding. The Eldritch Godling has spellcasting/attacks compariable to the sorceror but has THREE bad saving throws? I am missing something in the text or are Eldritch Godlings just very vulnerable? The Adept Godling works out okay (provided you don't want 7th+ level spells) but I like the Eldritch save for this typo/oversight/???

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The following class is based on 31 years of running games for friends and non-friends (you know who you are...).

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +0 +0 +0 +0 Min/Max (Self), extra class
2 +0 +0 +0 +0 Min/Max (Other)
3 +0 +0 +0 +0 Identify (Creatures)
4 +0 +0 +0 +0 Clever (Shopping)
5 +0 +0 +0 +0 Min/Max (Skills)
6 +0 +0 +0 +0 Clever (Item Creation)
7 +0 +0 +0 +0 Min/Max (Prestige Class Self)
8 +0 +0 +0 +0 Min/Max (Prestige Class Other)
9 +0 +0 +0 +0 Identify (Plot)
10 +0 +0 +0 +0 Clever (Tactics)
11 +0 +0 +0 +0 Min/Max (Unskilled skills)
12 +0 +0 +0 +0 Identify (Everything)
13 +0 +0 +0 +0 Halt Game
14 +0 +0 +0 +0 Min/Max (Online)
15 +0 +0 +0 +0 Post Online
16 +0 +0 +0 +0 Identify (Oddities)
17 +0 +0 +0 +0 Min/Max (Skill usage)
18 +0 +0 +0 +0 Min/Max (Psychic powers)
19 +0 +0 +0 +0 Identify (Self)
20 +0 +0 +0 +0 Identify (Loner)

This class is designed for those who have to “win” at Pathfinder. Because if you don’t “win” then you aren’t playing the game right. This class is designed to use the uncanny knowledge that all power gamers can bring to the table. (Note, I wrote "CAN" and not "DO".)


Min/Max (Self): Roll up the character using the best technique available. Roll up 300 characters and use the best one; just remember to not tell anyone about the other 299 characters.

Extra Class: You gain levels in this class at the same time you gain levels in the class you are already taking. It’s like playing a gestalt character from D&D but without the DM’s permission. This class offers no bonuses to attacks, saves or spell casting ability because then it would be “broken”.

Min/Max (Other): Tell the other players how to create their characters or at least what classes they should be playing. Heck, tell them about your classes and how cool you are for taking it. They will thank you later.

Identify (Creatures): At 3rd level, you can identify any creature you run across, even though your characters have never seen anything more dangerous than a kobold. You automatically know the weaknesses and classes of everyone you meet including NPCs.

Clever (Shopping): At 4th level you acquire the knowledge to buy exactly what you need for your next adventure. You will automatically ask to buy silver arrows for the werewolves you haven’t met or a wand of fireballs when you head into the unknown lair of the frost giants. It’s time to invest in a bag of holding when you can easily pull out exactly what you need when you need it.

Min/Max (Skills): At 5th level, you can magically rearrange your skill points after each gaming session to be optimized for the next session. For example, your points in Diplomacy magically transfer into tumble once you leave town. Also, you now have skill points in the languages you will need no matter where you go in the campaign world.

Clever (Item Creation): At 6th level, you can now use any item creation feats that you gain from your normal class to make the exact magic items needed for the rest of the campaign. For example, any bane weapon you make will be constructed against the most common enemy.

Min/Max (Prestige Class Self): At 7th level, you can now take those prestige classes you were looking at without considering if they even make sense for your character. Paladin ninjas are all the rage. Also, consider asking if you can take templates if they add to the power of your character. If necessary, ask if you can completely remake you character claiming that you made a mistake before.

Min/Max (Prestige Class Other): At 8th level, you can now tell the rest of the party to take prestige classes even if they are not in their character concepts. Also, you can try to convince the entire party to all take a level of rogue for the extra sneak attack damage.

Identify (Plot): At 9th level you gain uncanny knowledge of the plot of the campaign. You automatically know who really rules the city, who the leader of the thieves’ guild is and where the party is going in the next few weeks. Also, this power grants you the ability to find all hidden treasures.

Clever (Tactics): At 10th level, you gain the ability to avoid particular individuals in combat as this skill allows you to know which enemy is holding a deadly spell, who has a poison attack and whom is an archer; all before combat begins. Also, you now instinctively recognize where traps are and can avoid them with ease.

Min/Max (Unskilled skills): At 11th level, you can now attempt to use skills you don’t have as long as it gets the party to the next combat. You should speak up with your +3 Diplomacy and be heard over the rants of the party bard or spokesman. You also gain the ability to make rolls even if they are mathematically impossible.

Identify (Everything): At 12th level, you can now identify everything you see in the game. You know that the creature is not just a minotaur, it’s a minotaur barbarian named Tarrianius using a +3 broad sword of cleaving. Also, this power allows you to know exactly how many hit points every creature has.

Halt Game: At 13th level, you can now put the game into a living pause mode as you argue rules with the person behind the screen. Because you know everything happening in the campaign, you must now also know the rules too. Don’t be afraid to forget to mention negative effects of your powers too. For example, buy a ring of elemental command and forget about the saving throw penalties.

Min/Max (Online): At 14th level, you can now legally go online and brag about your character. No one at the table cares but everyone online wants to hear about how you did over 100 damage in a single round. Also, you can now research anything online after making a knowledge roll in your bedroom. Who needs a screen monkey when you have the online forums? Also, you can now rearrange your feats accordingly after reading the online min/max forums for your particular class.

Post Online: At 15th level you can actually post game materials online so you can self reference your material and use it at the table. For example, create a feat that give you +4 to attack rolls, post it online then tell the other players that you found a new feat that you are going to take next level.

Identify (Oddities): At 16th level, you can now identify when something has been changed in the campaign or module. This usually takes place in a change in the challenge rating of an encounter. You will now note when there are extra guards or the enemy wizard knows more spells than he should.

Min/Max (Skill usage): At 17th level, your character is just so awesome that you should make skill rolls for everything, even if the entire rest of the party have those skills maxed out and you have only one point in them. If the screen monkey calls for the party wizard to roll to identify a common magic item, you should roll too and loudly announce your roll especially as you could have done the wizard’s job for him.

Min/Max (Psychic powers): At 18th level, you gain the psychic powers to know everything that is happening in game and you should demonstrate that power openly. You no longer need to just identify the enemy; you can now recite the personal history of the big bad in your campaign even without the ranks in the appropriate Knowledge. Plots are now just meaningless waste to time between combats and should be treated as such.

Identify (Self): At 19th level you realize that you are the best player at the table. You should speak loudly and firmly as you are always correct. You should quote game books, forums and other games often as you know more about the game than the rest of the group combined. If confronted with facts that dispute your knowledge, reference materials not on hand and claim that they were corrected in online errata.

Identify (Loner): At 20th level you achieve maximum character awesomeness. You are such a good player that the rest of the table no longer wants to play with you. They would rather be surprised by encounters, miss out on hidden treasure and fumble their way into saving the world rather than follow you. You should search for another campaign and begin again at 1st level.