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And given he IS a Time Agent, which seems to have fairly rigorous standards, I have to wonder why he was recruited--either there's something he's good at we haven't seen yet, or his comedic levels of incompetence are a ruse.
We've only seen him in an action capacity, where he obviously doesn't really shine. He might be a bureaucratic wizard, for all we know. He might have a talent for spotting anachronisms. There's probably a lot more to being a good Time Agent than just punchin' stuff good.
That may well be it, Shadow Kosh, but then one would wonder why he ends up in the field so much as much as he does. Perhaps it's simply the Time Bureau being short staffed during the crisis. Even so the point is--at least if I was following Set--is he's getting an unusual amount of screentime for a character that basically started as a running gag, so he's plot relevant somehow. I didn't mean to imply there was something sinister about him per se--just something we're not seeing.
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For being captain of the wave rider, i would pick the Dread Pirate Amaya (who was leader of her tribe and master of the spirit totem) over Bill Gates with a nice haircut, who has let himself be bamboozled by the Darkhs on numerous occasions, yes. (If I needed someone with financial and technological sense i would pick Ray, but that's not needed in the role. There are different qualities of leadership.
There's really no GOOD choices on that crew to be a 'leader.' Maybe Wally as he's had the least chances to screw up.
Ray who's WAY too naïve. Rory... is still pretty evil. Zari... is still too new.
Amaya... I just hate WAY too much. She's an anancranism herself who's very presence is screwing with the timeline of her descendants. Not to mention her knowledge of time ends what? eight decades earlier than anyone else on the team? I banged my head on the table during THIS exchange this week.
Kuasha: He's not my grandfather! The more you love him, the less chance I have of being born.
Amaya: Look how SELFISH you are!
Because... yes, someone should TOTALLY put your random fling ahead of BEING BORN...
Nate? SHOULD be the best character on the team. He's a legitimate historian on a time ship. But every reason I hate Amaya really goes double for him. he KNOWS better.
There really are no legitimately good choices to run that team... and frankly I usually consider Sara too. Trained Assassins should not be murdering through time... but man, what a messed up ship. I really miss the Hawks and Firestorm.
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Ray has, unfortunately, had the Idiot Ball welded firmly twixt his flippers (much like Barry, on that other show).
I really want to like the character (Brandon Routh really sells it), but he's just too stupid to live. Now that Stein is off the ship (and show), there's no reason for Ray to be left holding onto the stupid, he can go back to being 'the smart one.' But no.
Nate's not much better. A horn dog who gets all over-enthused about any combination of TV/movies and /or history. Mick's never been a rocket scientist, and seems to exist primarily to suggest something cold-bloodedly practical that nobody else will ever agree with (and if they do, it's a sign that something has gone terribly wrong), but that's always been his thing, and he's not supposed to be a Rhodes scholar...
Honestly, Amaya may be taking some risks with the timeline (not really 'though, she could hang out on the Waverider for years, and still return to 3 seconds after she left... As long as she doesn't stay on the ship so long that she hits menopause, it's all good!), but she still seems many times more 'together' than Mick, Nate or Ray.
And now Wally's there, to mess things up super-fast, by doing stuff before anyone can say, 'That's a bad idea, Wally...' Ugh.
And then there's the nature of reaction time on a show like this.
Set,
I think Wally thought Kuasa could handle it. Plus you already saw where the demon STOLE his Speed. (Admittedly it was temporary, but there you are.)
I blame the scenes where the heroes are standing around like an idiot doing nothing--like they're trapped in a bad video game cutscene and the controller isn't responding--on whoever directed these episodes. It's up to the director to make sure the scene is blocked so that the action makes sense. If you had had, say, Kuasa on the other side of the room so that they couldn't have quickly intervened, and/or Wally was frozen by the Darkhs (a deus ex machina move they've used often enough to prevent the heroes from acting), it would have made more sense. Usually these shows don't have too bad direction, but Legends seem to get the directors that no other show wants.
I'll have to pay attention more to who's directing; there was at least another episode where something similar happened and it made no sense why the heroes were just standing around.
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I blame the scenes where the heroes are standing around like an idiot doing nothing--like they're trapped in a bad video game cutscene and the controller isn't responding--on whoever directed these episodes.
Legends is hardly the only show to do this. Horror movies, in particular, are full of people who stand around and watch horrible things happen really, really slowly. But they're generally idiots meant to die idiot deaths, and it bugs the heck out of me when more intelligent protagonists of years-long running series do that sort of thing, particularly people like Barry or Kara (or Wally). Everytime they stand around and watches something bad happen that they could have easily stopped, I think to myself, "Oliver would have shot the guy full of arrows by now, and he doesn't even have super-powers..."
But yeah, it's a problem with the director, but also the writer. Much like the TV show Heroes, which was multiple seasons of finding new excuses why Hiro and Peter's powers didn't work to solve the problem of the week, I often get the feeling that the writers for these shows have no idea how to write for people with super-powers. And heck, it doesn't even have to be super-powers, there are scenarios that don't work if the protagonists have working cellphones, not to mention more amazing options like transporters!
It becomes necessary to craft challenges that remaining challenging *despite* characters being able to remain in contact with each other, or call for help, or 'beam out' of danger, or react faster than most threats, and, having spent a lifetime reading comic books and reading science fiction and fantasy, I kind of expect more creativity here from TV writers who seem to have not gotten much training in these sorts of non-traditional protagonist situations.
Sci-fi / fantasy has an unfair reputations (that some SyFy programming certainly doesn't help) for being hack work or 'not real literature' or whatever, and I think TV writers, in particular, go into it thinking that it's going to be easy, instead of recognizing that it is, sometimes, harder, because you can't always just fall back on traditional tropes when writing challenging situations for characters with non-traditional options.
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That is interesting. Sometimes I feel like (for non super fast characters) events happen faster then the show actually portrays so you can see whats happening. If it was actual speed maybe the events went down to quickly to react. Hard to say really. But with speedsters its a bit different. I guess their is a part where if they don't see it coming their not moving fast so it happens before they react. Still theirs a flaw in their somewhere. Its hard not to accuse the characters of just being dumb in some situations like that. Like wally why not run through completly disarm the room tie up everyone etc. all before anyone else arrives?
I give some room to fidget where maybe a hero doesn't think of every out that moment but when you can actually slow down time for you to think of a million different outs then well... Probably the reason I liked that bomb episode so much. THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING ALWAYS!
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I think any writer for a speculative fiction genre show (sf/f/etc.) should be made to GM an RPG campaign before being hired. When they learn how to adjust to the wizard teleporting and how to stop that if needed, but more importantly when to make it a plot opportunity, then they can write for these shows.
...
And now I want to run a Legends of Tomorrow Mutants and Masterminds game. Dammit.
Oh I call dibs on Rory. I'll go buy some beers and lighters in preparation.
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I think any writer for a speculative fiction genre show (sf/f/etc.) should be made to GM an RPG campaign before being hired. When they learn how to adjust to the wizard teleporting and how to stop that if needed, but more importantly when to make it a plot opportunity, then they can write for these shows.
Definitely!
set you didn't call a character your gonna miss out and be stuck with Nat.
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Oh I call dibs on Rory. I'll go buy some beers and lighters in preparation.
*lol* Done. Share a beer with me and you can have the Fire Totem.
Last night's episode was interesting. I enjoyed it, except I really do not understand why Sara let Damian have the Death Totem. Even within the context of the circumstances presented in the episode, it seemed hugely out of character for her to do that, and smacks of the usual Arrowverse "heroes become inexplicably and massively stupid because we can't figure out how else to make the plot proceed" fallback many of the writers rely on. I really thought she had some kind of backup or twist plan in store in case he went wild, and even though I should know better, was surprised when that didn't seem the case. She redeemed herself later of course, but still. I know she's afraid to use the death totem herself, but wasn't the whole point of that episode that it was Malus that was making her nuts, not the death totem itself, and she should be able to use it now that Malus was expelled from her.
Nate is annoying, but less annoying than he used to be. Enjoyed Ray, Mick, and Zari. I like the performance of Amaya's actress but her motives change according to the needs of the plot and that makes her an inconsistent character to enjoy/follow.
Liked Ava's sideplot. I still don't get why Rip is calling her "special"; it still seems to be referring to something other than her replaceability. But damn, was he cold about that. Rip is an ass and I really hope for once he answers to the consequences of his actions more than the usual slap on the wrist he seems to endure.
It would be interesting to have Essie-as-Vixen on the team rather than Amaya. She was minimally seen, but I kind of liked her.
Poor Nora. (I can't figure if the vision of her was a trick though or real.)
Looking forward to the season finale. I am very here for Cowgirl Lance.
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I think the totems are too spread out. They should give them all to one bearer to use against Malus. Maybe fit them into a gauntlet or something.
Ha! They can call it the Eternity Gauntlet. And then Malus can reveal that he was just pretending to be afraid of the totems, so that the Legends would gather them for him, so that he could take them and use their combined powers to become even more all-powerful!
(That would fit the running theme of the show that whatever the Legends do, it usually fails, or turns out to be the wrong thing anyway, and only a lucky break pulls their fat out of the fire.)
Loved seeing John Noble in this.
I kind of wish the Legends who had just been handed totems would have at least practiced with them. (Ray's 'performance issues,' in particular, were annoying, since he's, once again, the dumbest of them, despite supposedly being a smart guy.)
I read a very similar discussion on Reddit. The suggested names for this item IIRC were "Limitless Glove" and "Eternity Handsock." I particularly like the latter.
Of course then it should really be Darkseid who shows up to wield it.
Set, I think on one hand Ray having a little "activation trouble" makes sense as I get the feeling the totems operate by a sort of bond/feel and Ray being the intellectual would try to overthink it. On the other hand I agree they have made him a little too stoogey in general -- he's been getting goofier and goofier as time goes by. He's a genuinely good, trusting guy but this too often goes into him being lacking in common sense I'm pretty sure he did have to some extent when he first appeared on Arrow.
In other news, CW has renewed this along with most of its standing shows (including continuing to allow the bloated corpse of Arrow to shamble through primetime alongside Supernatural). I'm looking forward most to the next season of Legends, Supergirl, and Jane the Virgin at this point.
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Supergirl...I honestly barely remember where we left off on that show. Two pretty sizeable hiatuses in one season is too many. I'm wondering how many viewers it loses due to the obvious lack of giving a damn. It's sad because even with the at times cloying and ham-fisted SWJ stuff, it still squeaks by Legends of Tomorrow as my favorite of the CW DC-verse.
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Man the actor playing barry his voice was spot on. are we sure they didn't have Barack come in and do a voice over?
Vid,
No that was just some other actor. Also best point: John Noble doing lines with Ray/Brandon Routh while in Denethor character. :) Worst idea: WHY LET MALLUS OUT?!!! Especially when you've not gotten ALL the totems working. I wasn't upset they gave the Death Totem to Damien...but come on! Anyways, John Noble at least saved this episode for me.
That and Wally proving he's better at being a speedster than some others.
I read a very similar discussion on Reddit. The suggested names for this item IIRC were "Limitless Glove" and "Eternity Handsock." I particularly like the latter.
"Unending Mitten"...nah, sounds like a knitting project someone can't figure out how to tie off.
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Man the actor playing barry his voice was spot on. are we sure they didn't have Barack come in and do a voice over?
That guy was indeed well cast.
I kind of like there being multiple things going on, between save Obama from Grodd and stop Amaya / save the village in Zambesi and funtime with Malus plotlines. It felt like a whole lot of stuff happened this episode. Even Ava's issues with maximum clone-age got some airtime, and the revelation that she was the twelfth person Rip had recruited was an eye-opener.
:) Worst idea: WHY LET MALLUS OUT?!!! Especially when you've not gotten ALL the totems working. I wasn't upset they gave the Death Totem to Damien...but come on! Anyways, John Noble at least saved this episode for me.
I can 'understand' that. It was an emotional response not a logical one.
Scenario one: Village is destroyed, Old Amara dead, Young Amara bitter enemy....
Scenario two: Back your friend, Save lives, be actual heroes.... and then deal with the consequences of letting Mallus out.
Letting Mallus out wasn't the overall goal... it was all about saving the village... and THAT was happening right here, right now, whether they had the totems working or not.
I'm sure they'd have preferred to plan it out more (maybe), but time was the deciding factor here. Not counting the fact they have an actual time machine...
Phantom,
Yeah I mean if they HAD a time machine...*forehead slap* But whatever.
I think scenerio one could have been handled by just having Barry screw up the timeline. I mean he does it enough, I doubt Mallus would notice.
Phantom,
Yeah I mean if they HAD a time machine...*forehead slap* But whatever.
I think scenerio one could have been handled by just having Barry screw up the timeline. I mean he does it enough, I doubt Mallus would notice.
Yeah... for a show entirely based around time travel, there sure are a lot of problems that could have been solved with Time Travel...
For example 'collecting the totems'. They need an animals totem... well they know of three animal totem bearers already, and an entire lineage of them. Why bother reclaiming one specific one from one specific time... when they could have a veritable army of Vixens involved.
Part of me thinks there must be SOME kind of built in paradox rules... but since they've never bothered to explain them... or break them when it suits them... I tend to see a LOT of loopholes.
IIRC the reason to let Mallus out was because they theorized it was actually the only way to kill it--it would be impossible to fully destroy it until it had manifested. Not just to help Amaya. They just realized they could do both.
(This is why Damien tried to stop them, because he knew once Mallus was out, Nora would definitely be dead.)
But can they actually KILL Mallus? It's not a given you can just "kill a demon" or whatever he is...
But can they actually KILL Mallus? It's not a given you can just "kill a demon" or whatever he is...
Johns a good start but you know who would be perfect here. Dr fate.
Vid,
Something tells me they don't have the budget for Doctor Fate's travel expenses along with the whole "Glowly magic helmet"
Your probably right Thomas.
But can they make it glow and do all the fun stuff the helmet does in the comics? Because I'm having my doubts, Greenie.
Yeah John Noble's cameo was probably my top 5 things if not my #1 for all this season (if not all time for the show) But the Season Finale nailed it. Mostly.
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My guess is there was a presidential candidate, either recently or challenging Brayden, who had a similar hairstyle or wig. Or perhaps they met a president that looked like that in an alternate timeline plagued by anachronisms and/or time demons. Perhaps it's foreshadowing a plot for next year where Constantine runs for President! Perhaps it was just a one-off joke we weren't supposed to think too hard about. :)
As for the finale... I think I can safely say we would not see a finale like that on any other present-day superhero series or cinematic universe, and that is why, even with its flaws, I f@!%ing LOVE THIS SHOW. I'm not even sure the Tick would have gone there.
I was a little annoyed at Sarah's OTT cynicism, which seemed to come partly out of nowhere, and then got resolved way too quickly. Still it all wrapped up where it should be.
I loved all the help they recruited--Jax! Amazon Helen! Other people I don't want to spoil!
I was really glad...
Nora lived. I think the character is interesting and has a lot of story potential, and I've been a fan of Courtney Ford since Fallout 4.
I also like that Kuasa came back (even if she's an anachronism of sorts). I'm hoping this may mean she will effectively become the new Vixen since the actress who plays Mari seems indisposed for a notable length of time.
Kind of hoping both will become Legends (since it looks like Amaya's gone for good and I can hope and pray the useless Nate will depart to feel sorry for himself).
And DING DONG DAMIEN IS DEAD! Thank the f&@!ing gods. I love Neil McDonough but I truly hope we never see him again. He was a good villain. He's earned a good death, and I want it to stay that way.
I like Nate...and I hope he stays, but if he does go, I hope its to make room for someone like Plastic Man or Metamorpho. That would be cool.
Also yes, Amazon Helen was a good stand-in for Diana since...you know movie rights and stuff.
For my money, Nate was only interesting as part of Amaya's story. Yeah, he's an historian, but (a) he hasn't done much along those lines and (b) when you have an AI with access to all of recorded time, "historian" is pretty much covered, yes?
I'm really not sure who I'd replace him with, but I'd be happy to see him go. And he can take Goofy Iron Man with him, leaving behind an acceptable personality/role for shrinking scientist Ray Palmer. I'm less than happy with a lot of the cast, really.
I love Rory's personality and [lack of] team dynamic, but he's problematic as a guy whose only weapon doesn't have a non-lethal setting, and they spend a fair amount of time fighting opponents they dare not kill for fear of changing history. They had a similar problem with Firestorm because all they ever let him do was fly around throwing fiery blasts.
Zari, meh. The whole Isis-who-we-can't-call-Isis character just never engaged my interest.
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If you're not hitting people over the head with politics, you're doing science fiction wrong.
The whole point of speculative fiction is to reflect on society as it is and what it might become, for better or worse.
It's difficult to swallow when it may be a political point of view you disagree with or that makes you feel uncomfortable. But then if you feel uncomfortable, the writers are probably doing an excellent job. Anyone can entertain. The best creators challenge. Sometimes we need to be challenged by other points of view, and where not to do it than in the stories we tell?
But as for that one specific line--it was a silly, throwaway, one line joke about hair. It had nothing to do with beliefs about fair trade or foreign policy or health care laws. It had nothing to do with politics. It may have been referencing a public figure--and one that may indeed exist on their earth and have run for president--but it had nothing to do with politics.
(Yes, the writers have addressed political issues. This was not one of those times.)
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Well unless the person your talking to is in fact those things then you are probably most likely right.
All I know is that if Nate goes, it doesn't seem like much to send Ray back either since he's barely done the science thing...or anything else.
Zari MIGHT still be cool...but she clearly needs an upgrade.
Makes you wonder why they went with her really, but yeah that could of been awkward. Lousy terrorist groups stealing the names of perfectly good Egyptian gods and super heroines.