Legends of Tomorrow


Television

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SmiloDan wrote:

Why doesn't Ray wear his super suit all the time?

At least when he's fighting an immortal martial artist.

Didn't he invent that suit? Isn't he some kind of doctor? Isn't he supposed to be smart?

Also, why do people care so much about the timeline being "pure?" That literally makes no sense to me. Wasn't Biff the hero of Back To The Future 2?

Most of the time I agree. Shrunk down Atom hiding in Kendra's purse is a HECK of a lot more useful than powerless Ray walking around... However for THAT fight?!?

1) If Atom beat up Savage... than it wasn't 'the man'... it was the suit. He was already feeling diminished by the Carter situation.

2) This version of Atom uses lots of lasers and missiles and stuff... NOT the kind of thing to use INSIDE the ship...

3)???? If Savage gets a lucky hit in or something... then HE has the Atom superweapon... or it could blow up... or any other legitimate reason NOT to wear it into the cage match with megaevil...

As for pure timeline? Not sure who you're talking about... the Time masters? Any time you are born in the future... It's REALLY important to stop people from screwing with the past. Being a british guy isn't so great if something convinces Savage to destroy England 100 years before you're born....

and no... Biff juggled between Evil and a loser... but never hero O.o


Vandal savage is head of the time masters isn't he?


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Vandal savage is head of the time masters isn't he?

That or he has lots of compromising photos of the other Time Masters. :p ;)


Perhaps Per Degaton? - in the comics he was a time-traveling despot.


Maybe. I don't know DC Comic time travelers as well as I do Marvel's.


Thomas Seitz wrote:
Maybe. I don't know DC Comic time travelers as well as I do Marvel's.

I was a big JSA reader when before the nu52 declared war on the Golden Age - Per Degaton shows up there, and time travel is something he does, often on a floating timey-wimey disk (think of a flying, high tech manhole cover).

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I thought last night's episode was great actually. If the whole season was this good, I would have been a lot happier.

Spoiler:
I like that the Time Masters at least partially explained some of the boneheaded things the Legends did in the season in that they were manipulating events (as well as minds?). I was at least partially right that they set things up for Rip to do some of the things he did to make things work out they way they wanted, even if they weren't setting Rip up to be in just the right path to eventually defeat Savage (though I guess a last minute reveal next episode could still do this).


JoelF847 wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

I look at that as more of a writer's saving throw than anything. Trying to excuse the fact that most of the characters make the worst possible decision at any given moment. Why? Because **spoiler**, that's why!

Liberty's Edge

Heatwave continues to be my favorite character on the show. Kendra, Ray, and Rip are too stupid to be allowed to live.


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I want them to kill every character except for Sara, Snart, and Mick.

Then they can rename the show Canary Cold Fire.

Liberty's Edge

I would watch that show.


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Roast Pheasant under glaice?


Yea, that would be a way better show.

Sovereign Court

Did you notice that the time master dude mentioned Thanagar? Where hawk people come from? So which origin are they going with?


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episode:

Sure, the time masters manipulating time explains a lot of the incompetent things the team did throughout the season. In the end battle during this episode, the team was actually successfully killing their opponents instead of shooting over their heads, so that was good.

I liked that they achieved success, though I think it would've been cooler if Snart froze his hand, cut it off, and wedged it in there, then ran out with the others. "What? You didn't think I was gonna stay behind, did you? Our ship can regrow my hand!"

Believe it or not, the worst bit of writing that was handwaved had nothing to do with time travel, the Oculus, etc. It was something that happened off camera--please show me how 110 lb Sara carried 250 lb unconscious Mick to the time ship. I know she's tough and a good fighter, but as Marcus from Bad Santa said: "Special treatment? It's a matter of f$@*ing physics! So unless you got a forklift handy, maybe you can lend a hand!"


RE Frozen fingers of midnight: Thats what i was expecting.

Sovereign Court

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Still loved the statement "There are no strings on me"

Dark Archive

Hama wrote:
Did you notice that the time master dude mentioned Thanagar? Where hawk people come from? So which origin are they going with?

They could tie the meteor that empowered Shayera, Carter and Vandal Savage to Thanagar, somehow, I suppose, having it taken the hawk-peeps a couple thousand years to figure out where the missing whatever-it-was-that-makes-people-immortal/reincarnative/their leaders got off to.


Set wrote:
Hama wrote:
Did you notice that the time master dude mentioned Thanagar? Where hawk people come from? So which origin are they going with?

They could tie the meteor that empowered Shayera, Carter and Vandal Savage to Thanagar, somehow, I suppose, having it taken the hawk-peeps a couple thousand years to figure out where the missing whatever-it-was-that-makes-people-immortal/reincarnative/their leaders got off to.

Dude, where's my Immortal Pharaoh ?


I really don't get why Snart couldn't just create a block of ice inside the housing of that thing. I mean, his gun freezes laser beams solid (eye roll.) Shouldn't have been necessary for anyone to stand there holding it down.

Liberty's Edge

His cold gun isn't really cold anymore. It hasn't been all season. It mostly fires concussive force apparently.


I was more curious when Firestorm's head stopped being on fire. I mean... I like the costume he 'sometimes' forms, but the flaming head is iconic.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Or use a stick.

Or jam a dead minion's gun in there.

And couldn't Palmer make a part of his suit perfectly sized to fit in that chamber?

Do you think they ad lib a lot, and just try to fix it later?


How about have the guy who's made of nuclear energy stick HIS hand in there? Martin Stein was already able to contain nuclear energy (that Russian thingamabob) by himself when he wasn't even merged!


mbauers wrote:
How about have the guy who's made of nuclear energy stick HIS hand in there? Martin Stein was already able to contain nuclear energy (that Russian thingamabob) by himself when he wasn't even merged!

Of course, the other half of Firestorm was recently dying because of exposure to timey-wimey radiation. But apparently sending him back to 2016 briefly completely cured that. And even eliminated the accelerated aging that had already occurred. Because...reasons.


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Set wrote:
Hama wrote:
Did you notice that the time master dude mentioned Thanagar? Where hawk people come from? So which origin are they going with?

They could tie the meteor that empowered Shayera, Carter and Vandal Savage to Thanagar, somehow, I suppose, having it taken the hawk-peeps a couple thousand years to figure out where the missing whatever-it-was-that-makes-people-immortal/reincarnative/their leaders got off to.

At the end, when Cabbage was monologuing about not needing the Time Masters because he has a timeship, I started wondering if...

Spoiler:
What if it wasn't a meteor that immortalized Cabbage, Hawkbarista, and Hawkbro? What if there's a fight, and Cabbage's timeship (also carrying the other two) is damaged/shot down by the Waverider over ancient Egypt, and the timeship crash irradiates the original past trio with tachyons/chronitons/handwavium radiation that starts and closes their timeline?
Dark Archive

Bowl of Petunias wrote:
At the end, when Cabbage was monologuing about not needing the Time Masters because he has a timeship, I started wondering if... ** spoiler omitted **

Ooh, interesting!


#&^@@%^@!! My DVR cut off a minute early, possibly less. The last thing I saw/heard was

Spoiler:
some guy Rip clearly sent back to find him saying "Don't get on that ship!"

What did I miss?

Sovereign Court

Damon Griffin wrote:

#&^@@%^@!! My DVR cut off a minute early, possibly less. The last thing I saw/heard was ** spoiler omitted **

What did I miss?

Spoiler:
That guy is Rex Tyler, said he's a member of Justice Society of America

Anyone care to explain why they are not using Justice League?


JSA doesn't need the Big Three?

Liberty's Edge

Nothing really needs the big three. If they can do Civil War without Robo-Thor or Goliath or Nitro they can do JSA stories without Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.


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Spoiler:

Also: No more Kendra and Carter!! YAY!!!


Feral wrote:
Nothing really needs the big three. If they can do Civil War without Robo-Thor or Goliath or Nitro they can do JSA stories without Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.

Batman, Superman, and Wonderwoman are a bit more crucial to the Justice League than those named characters are to the Avengers.

Also I am probably 100% certain that the TV verse is not allow to directly mention Justice League.

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Rip: "We need to go to three different time periods to kill Vandal Savage simultaneously."

Stein: "OK, which one should we do first?"

Rip: "First? No, we need to split up into three teams and do it simultaneously."

Stein: "I don't think you understand what 'simultaneously' means. Even our entire team has never beaten Savage before. Besides, we have a time machine, remember?"

Rip: "I SAID WE'RE SPLITTING UP, OK?!"

Sarah: "Fine, let me get my sniper rifle, and I'll set up-"

Rip: "No sniper rifle. We kill him in hand-to-hand combat!"

Ray: "But Firestorm and I can fly and shoot energy beams."

Rip: "I SAID HAND-TO-HAND COMBAT, OK?!"


comicbook logic comicbook logic comicbook logic

OOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Liberty's Edge

The part I couldn't follow was;

Spoiler:
Rip, with a nudge from Gideon, decides NOT to kamikaze into the Sun. He dumps the meteor and uses the large amount of available solar power to time jump away...

So why does the rest of the team suddenly not remember him leaving on his suicide mission at all?


Seeing as how the comics shoved the JSA back into some alternate universe I bet the TV show considers them to be safe characters to use that aren't going to be suddenly smacked by the movie embargo.


I thought they did remember him, they were wondering why he was back.

"Dammit, you lived! What the hell!?"


MMCJawa wrote:
Feral wrote:
Nothing really needs the big three. If they can do Civil War without Robo-Thor or Goliath or Nitro they can do JSA stories without Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.
Batman, Superman, and Wonderwoman are a bit more crucial to the Justice League than those named characters are to the Avengers.

Yeah, I"m not much of a DC fan, but even I realize that that's more akin to an Avengers team that lacks Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor.

(I know that they have been lineups that lacked any of them, but it's been fairly rare over the years, and without at least one of those characters, it doesn't really feel like the Avengers. Hell, it doesn't really feel like the Avengers even if just Cap is missing.)


Norman Osborne wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Feral wrote:
Nothing really needs the big three. If they can do Civil War without Robo-Thor or Goliath or Nitro they can do JSA stories without Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman.
Batman, Superman, and Wonderwoman are a bit more crucial to the Justice League than those named characters are to the Avengers.

Yeah, I"m not much of a DC fan, but even I realize that that's more akin to an Avengers team that lacks Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor.

(I know that they have been lineups that lacked any of them, but it's been fairly rare over the years, and without at least one of those characters, it doesn't really feel like the Avengers. Hell, it doesn't really feel like the Avengers even if just Cap is missing.)

It hasn't been the Justice League to me since they retconned the Martian Manhunter out of it. He had been in nearly every version of it until just prior to the nu52.


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Grey Lensman wrote:


It hasn't been the Justice League to me since they retconned the Martian Manhunter out of it. He had been in nearly every version of it until just prior to the nu52.

I just HATE him as a character. He's superman + professor X + the vision + a shapeshifter.. combo platter powers doesn't even begin to describe it. Pick something and BE it. When your character needs to have the flu so SUPERMAN can be relevant... you've probably overpowered the character.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Grey Lensman wrote:


It hasn't been the Justice League to me since they retconned the Martian Manhunter out of it. He had been in nearly every version of it until just prior to the nu52.

I just HATE him as a character. He's superman + professor X + the vision + a shapeshifter.. combo platter powers doesn't even begin to describe it. Pick something and BE it. When your character needs to have the flu so SUPERMAN can be relevant... you've probably overpowered the character.

They did well with him in Justice League and Young Justice - keeping the focus mostly on shapeshifting and mental powers (although I was scratching my head at the telekinesis in YJ).

And he was done well in the (pour one out for Darwyn Cooke, who truly deserves any accolades) New Frontier.

Although I like the character for the philosopher and perennial outsider aspects more than anything else.

Liberty's Edge

BigNorseWolf wrote:

I thought they did remember him, they were wondering why he was back.

"Dammit, you lived! What the hell!?"

Umm.... no. Indeed, they replayed the seconds leading up to him flying away and the second time he just 'vanished' mysteriously... and then had to explain what he had been doing when he came back. Two different versions of the time line... for no apparent reason.


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RainyDayNinja wrote:

Rip: "We need to go to three different time periods to kill Vandal Savage simultaneously."

Stein: "OK, which one should we do first?"

Rip: "First? No, we need to split up into three teams and do it simultaneously."

Stein: "I don't think you understand what 'simultaneously' means. Even our entire team has never beaten Savage before. Besides, we have a time machine, remember?"

Rip: "I SAID WE'RE SPLITTING UP, OK?!"

Sarah: "Fine, let me get my sniper rifle, and I'll set up-"

Rip: "No sniper rifle. We kill him in hand-to-hand combat!"

Ray: "But Firestorm and I can fly and shoot energy beams."

Rip: "I SAID HAND-TO-HAND COMBAT, OK?!"

I loved how Ray was boxing one of those crappy Hawk-girl wannabes while Mick beat Savage in a street fight. It's like Ray forgets he has powers. And Savage in 1944 literally used knives to deflect automatic weapons fire and slaughter a platoon of Nazis by himself, but 14 years later he can't beat (weaponless) Mick in a one-on-one brawl? They could've at least had Ray say: "Gee, that Chronos training really paid off" or something like that.

Carter and Kendra are such worthless fighters. She gets sniped when they're flying away and then Rip's just like: "Don't worry, we'll just rescue her later," She's more useless than Princess Peach.

And really, the whole season we're told that only Kendra can kill Savage, and then it ends up not mattering at all?

Finally--yeah, Savage can go back and talk to himself (without causing too much damage to the timestream, apparently) but there's still only one of him. If they kill him in 1958, he doesn't survive to 2021 to go back and find himself. So why do they need to kill him three times?


Bauers,

Reasons! Plus apparently it's cool to kill the same guy in different places and times while doing simultaneously.


Finally--yeah, Savage can go back and talk to himself (without causing too much damage to the timestream, apparently) but there's still only one of him. If they kill him in 1958, he doesn't survive to 2021 to go back and find himself. So why do they need to kill him three times?

Because this shows rules of time travel have parralell timeslines where time is objetive for the traveler but subjective to the main line.


Grey Lensman wrote:

They did well with him in Justice League and Young Justice - keeping the focus mostly on shapeshifting and mental powers (although I was scratching my head at the telekinesis in YJ).

Justice league is what i was thinking about.

He had all the powers mentioned. When he went to war world with superman he had to have the flu just so superman could be relevant to his own story. He had to be written out of the story/put on watch duty for a while just because otherwise he would have solved every problem the entire league ever had.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Grey Lensman wrote:

They did well with him in Justice League and Young Justice - keeping the focus mostly on shapeshifting and mental powers (although I was scratching my head at the telekinesis in YJ).

Justice league is what i was thinking about.

He had all the powers mentioned. When he went to war world with superman he had to have the flu just so superman could be relevant to his own story. He had to be written out of the story/put on watch duty for a while just because otherwise he would have solved every problem the entire league ever had.

I'll have to rewatch the Warworld episode, but the monitor duty was mainly during the Unlimited seasons, where most of the big guns of the League were absent quite often (and played into J'onn's alienation subplot). I think that most of the time, we rarely saw more than one of the real powerhouses of the earlier seasons in action at the same time (not counting the end with the Apokolips invasion). They even had an episode of the General vs. a pile of non-powered Leaguers with Superman 'busy' elsewhere.


Extra bonus... JSA has almost always been time travel related or from the past. They already used Hawkman and Hawkgirl, which to me means we may see them pop up again sometime.

They KIND of started the whole 'legacy' concept in DC and really do fit in well with a LoT show.

What I want to know now... is how they're going to work it? Are they going to be a 'past' team, like they were in Smallville? Because they've already scuttled Jay Garrick in Flash (though I'd love to see that get changed up somehow...) and I've ALWAYS been a fan of Hourman. Something about the less flashy powers... or the Yellow Costume/hood ... Something about him always appealed to me for me some reason. I was always annoyed when they replaced him with the Time traveling robot... and giddy when they brought him back.

Though with the cancellations and reboots... I don't remember what happened with him anymore? Did they kill him off again, or did he just fade into the background like the rest of the original team started doing...


Phantom,

I'm not sure Jay Garrick is scuttled. I still think it MIGHT be possible that Jay Garrick is actually....

Spoiler:
HENRY ALLEN'S Earth 2 doppleganger!

See what I did there?

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