Legends of Tomorrow


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Green,

Maybe but Barry didn't use the freaking DARKHOLD to make AIs. :p

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But what if Gideon was corrupted by "Old Darhk?" ;)


*groans* Please don't, DQ.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Green,

Maybe but Barry didn't use the freaking DARKHOLD to make AIs. :p

Meh... Darkhold had nothing to do with Ultron, Brainiac or (probably) Skynet. Plenty of evil AI around that can't be trusted. It's pretty cliché ;)

If anything, this shows that Gideon simply can't be trusted. Gideon acknowledges Sara as the captain... but always follows Rips orders. Rip gets demoted, but she still refers to him as Director... She always defers to Rip over the Legends... who knows if there's some Time Master or other out that she defers to over Rip?


Talking of Rip, is anyone else mildly annoyed by the way he always stands hunched over and slightly turned to the side?


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Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Talking of Rip, is anyone else mildly annoyed by the way he always stands hunched over and slightly turned to the side?

Not really. With that coat of his, it feels like a gunslingers stance and I feel like he's always ready to draw a weapon and end someone.

Which is a fun aspect of his character ^___^

And/or, the person he's talking to isn't getting his FULL attention. He's thinking about some other 'big picture' thing.


Phantom,

Ultron is a different fish all together. Brainiac is an alien. Skynet...isn't even in this reality.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Phantom,

Ultron is a different fish all together. Brainiac is an alien. Skynet...isn't even in this reality.

So?

My point is that out of all the cliché tropish evil robots in fictional existence... only one was ever 'because of the Darkhold'. Everyone gets their own origin, everyone gets their own reasons to be the evil/untrustworthy AI...

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GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Presumably this is the same Gideon that was/will be created by Barry Allen. And what is the phrase we associate with him (hint: 2 or 3 words depending on spelling)?

I'm sorry, but I have trouble believing Barry is smart enough to be a forensic scientist (although I guess that became less of a problem), much less believing he can someday create an advanced AI system.


I believe he could. I mean he's almost as smart as Batman. Supposedly.

Phantom,

The trope might be there, but I don't see this happening with Gideon.


I have no trouble believing in Barry as a forensic scientist. OTOH, while I realize in the comics he's supposed to have a near-Batman intellect, he's shown little evidence of it on this show; Cisco, Harry and Caitlyn always handle the brainy stuff. He's not even a computer hacker, which is weird, because as anyone who watches TV knows, the faster you type, the better a hacker you are.

Sure, sometimes Barry writes formulas on the clear board. That rarely seems to actually lead anywhere, though. And even accepting that Arrowverse-Barry is really smart, his formal expertise is in chemistry and forensics, with a crash course in physics from real life experience -- how does any of that lead to him creating an AI?


Speaking of formulae on the board. Anyone catch the Easter Egg?


The Johnny Quick formula? They've used it before.


I know, but I love seeing it.


Yeah it's a nice nod.


Damon Griffin wrote:

I have no trouble believing in Barry as a forensic scientist. OTOH, while I realize in the comics he's supposed to have a near-Batman intellect, he's shown little evidence of it on this show; Cisco, Harry and Caitlyn always handle the brainy stuff. He's not even a computer hacker, which is weird, because as anyone who watches TV knows, the faster you type, the better a hacker you are.

Sure, sometimes Barry writes formulas on the clear board. That rarely seems to actually lead anywhere, though. And even accepting that Arrowverse-Barry is really smart, his formal expertise is in chemistry and forensics, with a crash course in physics from real life experience -- how does any of that lead to him creating an AI?

I Love, love LOVED the episode 2 weeks ago where time was slowed down to the point that it SHOULD be for speedsters and Barry had almost ZERO help from Team Flash. Not even counting the poor showing from Jay, I just love every time he shows up :P

Barry tried to get help, but nothing worked and he was actually the smartest person in the room like he should be...

Then this week he's back to being the weakest link in Team Flash and wandering around a lab with nothing to do... But Flashtime was great.

This episode did make me hate Iris all the more. Every time they refer to her as 'team leader' when she brings absolutely nothing TO the team just gets under my skin for some reason. Giving her powers and taking them away again just lampshades how useless she is on a regular basis.


Phantom,

You sure you're posting on the right page? I mean I know LoT crosses over and stuff....but I thought this was just LoT. You know, since Flash has his own thread...

But regardless, I look forward to seeing more of the Death Totem. Also Elvis was decent.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Phantom,

You sure you're posting on the right page? I mean I know LoT crosses over and stuff....but I thought this was just LoT. You know, since Flash has his own thread...

But regardless, I look forward to seeing more of the Death Totem. Also Elvis was decent.

Valid point. I bounce around the CW threads so much, that seeing a post about Barry's competency and I got a bit carried away :P

As for Barry creating Gideon?? I have a feeling that Barry's name is on the STAR Labs deed and he gets credit for everything now. 10,000 years ago Harrison and Cisco probably created the AI, but Barry's name was on the lease. Or maybe Gideon is really a cyber supervillain consciousness or something that they harnesessed? Because yeah... I haven't seen anything that makes 'Barry creates Gideon' to be a logical conclusion.


It's okay. I've been known to get carried away back in the day. There was this whole thing with Scarred Lands and Nightfall as my handle...

It was a thing like I said.

Anyways Death Totem and Elvis!


Gideon specifically said in a Flash S1 ep that she was created by Commander Barry Allen.

There was something about the Death Totem - the way it lighted up. I didn't slo-mo it, but there seemed to be an almost subliminal thing there. As if the light was forming a series of vertical lines and a triangle.


Did they just play a recording of the king or was that kid playing that talented?

Also I live in TN and I have to say the white church goes were not nearly bigoted enough to be believable. especially for the time.

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GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Gideon specifically said in a Flash S1 ep that she was created by Commander Barry Allen.

I almost wonder if they forgot that or just wanted to use the same actress.

It's also possible there are two Gideons -- the one Barry made could have been inspired by the one on the Waverider or vice versa.

If it's the same Gideon, we also know Gideon lies, so...

I THINK that was a recording of actual Elvis, but even if it was they engineered the sound and lip sync very well.


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Different actress. Flash series Gideon was voiced by Morena Bacarin.


DeathQuaker wrote:
GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Gideon specifically said in a Flash S1 ep that she was created by Commander Barry Allen.

I almost wonder if they forgot that or just wanted to use the same actress.

It's also possible there are two Gideons -- the one Barry made could have been inspired by the one on the Waverider or vice versa.

If it's the same Gideon, we also know Gideon lies, so...

That's kind of my belief too. While with SOME encouragement, I can believe that Barry Allen could... and SHOULD build some kind of computerized AI that monitors Time Lines and can detect abberations... Really he SHOULD do this...

I find it MUCH harder to believe that anything he builds in the early 21st century is still Solid technology and hasnt' been recycled, remade, upgraded in the 22nd. Or wherever the Waverider comes from. Rip was from the 22nd, but the Time Masters were more 'outside' time I think... and I suspect their tech should have been MUCH more advanced than anything Barry Allen came up with in his lifetime.

Unless he runs to the far far future and works with their tech.... but we're off the grid of Speculation at this point :P

Maybe Barry's Gideon was essentially the Windows 95 version of Gideon and the Waverider Gideon is more Windows 2300 or something??


I'm betting more like Linux 6400, Phantom. ;)


In the comics, Barry and Iris retired to her native time period (mid 30th century), had the twins, and then he got called back to the 20th century to face the Red Skies. Of course all that was in the timeline where Barry grew up with two live parents.


Green,

It can still happen I'd imagine... sort of. But regarding the Legends, I'm guessing John will be there to help out once more.

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Constantine is going to be a series regular in season 4!

Plus last night's episode was a lot of fun. Loved the Doctor Who joke.

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JoelF847 wrote:

Constantine is going to be a series regular in season 4!

Plus last night's episode was a lot of fun. Loved the Doctor Who joke.

Loved the D&D reference.

"try not to laugh."
"Too late."


I loved the fact they GOT Constantine to PLAY D&D! :)

But yes the Doctor Who jokes were good along with the D&D references.

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Booo, Sara. You just figured out you can live with your own darkness. You consciously f%!@ing made that point. So given your cliched reasoning was hypocritical and ridiculous, pushing Ava away from you I can only assume means you're just too commitment phobic to keep a good girl on your side--even though it was the same good girl who saved you to begin with.

The ending was great. For some reason I thought the d20 was going to be imbued with magic, the way Constantine was holding it. (I also liked the race/classes assigned to the Legends, with Ray as the oddly happy gnome wizard.)


Thomas Seitz wrote:

I loved the fact they GOT Constantine to PLAY D&D! :)

But yes the Doctor Who jokes were good along with the D&D references.

Hey, Harry Dresden was inspired by Constantine. It seems only fair that Constantine borrow from Harry for a change.


Harry is no John though.

But I agree with DC, I'm glad the race/class assignments worked.

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GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

I loved the fact they GOT Constantine to PLAY D&D! :)

But yes the Doctor Who jokes were good along with the D&D references.

Hey, Harry Dresden was inspired by Constantine. It seems only fair that Constantine borrow from Harry for a change.

Ew, does that mean Sara slept with an alternate universe version of her dad?

(I am just kidding, but that's an unexpected connection.)

I really wanna make a pyromaniac half-orc rogue named Mick now...


DeathQuaker wrote:


Ew, does that mean Sara slept with an alternate universe version of her dad?

Not at all, because that was never Harry Dresden.

Fan of the books, very much not a fan of the TV series.


I enjoyed the show for what it was. I rather liked the "staff" and "wand". Though I think they swapped the actresses playing Murphy and Susan. A blonde Rodriquez, and a Latina Irish Cop?

If Butcher was OK with it, who are we to say otherwise?

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Honestly I never saw the show--had friends who were big fans of it, but never saw it myself--and had absolutely zero intention of starting a disgruntled fanwar over a cheeky comment about Paul Blackthorne. So that said, I'd just as soon get back to discussing LoT.

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DeathQuaker wrote:
Honestly I never saw the show--had friends who were big fans of it, but never saw it myself--and had absolutely zero intention of starting a disgruntled fanwar over a cheeky comment about Paul Blackthorne. So that said, I'd just as soon get back to discussing LoT.

Trust me, don't

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So, how about Mick and the fire totem, eh?

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DeathQuaker wrote:
So, how about Mick and the fire totem, eh?

Love it. He's perfect for it (or it's perfect for him).

I was surprised they went with a death totem as the mysterious sixth. Since the others were air, earth, fire, water and animals, I was thinking that the sixth would be plants, to sort of stay on theme.

IMO, death would fit better as part of a series of totems including concepts like life, light, darkness, fate, etc.

It is neat that the death totem called out to the person on the ship who is a trained killer, who has personally experienced death. Sarah's beyond perfect for it.

I feel like we're seeing too much of 'Gary.' Something's up with him...


Eh. I like the amount of Gary that was in this episode.


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I feel like giving the pyromaniac the fire totem while making reasonable sense is like giving the uni-bomber a life-time supply of syntec. Should be interesting anyways. Plus you know they wanted to use the Fireball cg that they made for firestorm again.


Well right now I'm not sure what the Fire Totem can do by itself if they can't get the Earth Totem to work...


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Earth totems air totems fire totems water totems. why do I feel like im leveling my World of Warcraft shaman again.


Also come one rory 'pull my finger" really?


Maybe Gideon is modeled after Thinker somehow.

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I like Mick, but he so very deserved what Zari did to him.

The A plot was sad. I am glad Amaya has her totem back, though. I thought the ending was stupidly predictable though (and Amaya's hypocrisy of running off after yelling at Sara for trying to do the same thing at the beginning of this episode did not escape me).

The revelation about Ava's origin story was way more interesting than I thought it would be. Oddly it's not too different from some fan theories, but obviously her origin isn't so much about what makes her special, it's something else we haven't yet learned. And I like that.

Set, I agree with you on Gary -- especially with his continued large role this most recent episode. It's not that he's being overused (re: what Thomas said), it's the significance to which they are using him suggests he is going to end up being plot pivotal (rather than just being the running gag nerd). He has now has had as large a role as some of the Legends in a given story. And given he IS a Time Agent, which seems to have fairly rigorous standards, I have to wonder why he was recruited--either there's something he's good at we haven't seen yet, or his comedic levels of incompetence are a ruse.


DQ,

I'm not convinced his incompetence is that big, mostly because getting pants by a Speedster and then helping John Constantine shows me he's just an average guy working a difficult government job...of sorts.

Well I guess for Ava, at least, she knows more about her life than before. But will Sara give her another chance? I mean it's clear Ava cares for her, but Sara seems like "I'm doomed!"

As for A plot, I didn't think it was THAT sad. Tragic slightly, but still necessary because honestly, Kusau wasn't going to switch sides just on a whim.


Let us review what they were doing before they were main characters on this show:
1) Baked cookies in the kitchen with Courtney while the menfolk did the planning.

2) Was CEO/owner of the Earth-1 equivalent of Microsoft.

Which one is the logical next in the chain of command?

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For being captain of the wave rider, i would pick the Dread Pirate Amaya (who was leader of her tribe and master of the spirit totem) over Bill Gates with a nice haircut, who has let himself be bamboozled by the Darkhs on numerous occasions, yes. (If I needed someone with financial and technological sense i would pick Ray, but that's not needed in the role. There are different qualities of leadership.

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