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Mark. Does that mean the kineticists damage isn't multiplied on critical hits any longer? o.O
No, it totally is still multiplied on a crit. It was an explanation of why I wouldn't be using Heladriel's suggestion (well that and the class is already to the editors, so it's past the point of no return in most regards, but that's the difference between an explanation and a reason, and I prefer an explanation).
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I dunno if I agree with Vital Strike not working with Melee kineticist. The feat over all this time is basically useless (Or requires somewhere around SIX feat to not be) to most Martial characters and the ones who CAN do it rely on Magic (Druids Im looking at you), while this ONE class makes it worth it and doesnt have to jump through hoops to do so. What is the issue with that? Oh it allows the Melee to be stronger? Well then you can stay ranged blasting as far as an archer or heck just use a Conductive Bow.
Anyone know how much burn might be appropriate for a Electricity infusion that lets you recharge technological items by one point per 6 electricity damage you would deal?
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I dunno if I agree with Vital Strike not working with Melee kineticist. The feat over all this time is basically useless (Or requires somewhere around SIX feat to not be) to most Martial characters and the ones who CAN do it rely on Magic (Druids Im looking at you), while this ONE class makes it worth it and doesnt have to jump through hoops to do so. What is the issue with that? Oh it allows the Melee to be stronger? Well then you can stay ranged blasting as far as an archer or heck just use a Conductive Bow.
It really is a fairly odd ruling and one that will break immersion.
"So... I can swing this sword and make a single powerful blow with this new feat... But I can't swing this melee blast into a single powerful blow with this feat. This melee blast functions like a weapon in every other way and can be used as a weapon in every other single scenario... except this one?"
Wouldn't be the first immersion breaking restriction I've seen. For example, you can't cast create water on top of someone, you have to cast it into a container and then dump the container on them.
I am fine with those abilities not getting the use of vital strike. Besides I think the class has enough feat tax as is.
I played again today. There were actually two fights! So action packed...
This time, we were short players--it was only the buffing Gnome Cleric, Magus, Monk, and I at the game.
I rolled horribly this time. I missed constantly, but, I was rolling so many 1s and 2s, you can't go by that. After acquiring a +2 Dex/Con Belt, I now have the highest accuracy in the party (+14 to hit at level 6 if they're within 30') and I definitely hit he hardest (I was averaging about 40 damage a shot when they landed). Though, I was stunned to see how much I was ahead by--the Magus could only get up to a +12 to hit with every bell and whistle on, while the Monk only had a +8 (he gave up flurry, that's unpenalized). I always knew they were weak, but damn, +8 at 6th level is awful--they're even worse than I thought.
We fought a pair of mutated orc things, which had lots of HP and dealt heavy damage. I went first and opened up on them from far away with an Empowered Extended Blast, rolled a 2, and missed, obviously. The Gnome (with Fire domain) threw a Fireball for 27 and one saved. The melee couldn't reach them this round. Round two, I connected for 45 damage and the Magus finished him off with a Shocking Grasp. The Cleric Shattered the remaining creature's Greataxe, but it just pulled out a Great Club anyway.
I rolled a 1 and the Magus and Monk softened it up. Turns out it wasn't an orc, it was a Care Bear because it abandoned the Monk trying to tank (who had connected for like 8 sad damage with failed Stunning Fist Attempts and could not survive another hit) and turned to the Magus, landing two blows that ate half of his (maximized!) HP.
Finally, round four, I hit again (on a roll of a 6!) and finished it with 42 damage.
Later, we fought a pair of "murderballs" as the GM called them. Small robots that SUCKED to fight. Not because they were especially dangerous--they crit three times during the fight and only did a total of about 45 damage to us over the 8 or 9 rounds it took--but because they had Fast Healing Shields, Hardness 10, and the Magus had to hold back a little because we were expecting a Boss Fight next.
Over the course of the Fight, the Monk couldn't beat the Hardness at all, and the Magus only could when he twice used Shocking Grasp (critting both times and killing the murder balls he hit that I had taken the shields off from). The Cleric is an Iron Priest and so, could pitifully channel 3d6 that bypassed Hardness, but, eh, not super effective. It didn't help that they had 23 AC, too, and constantly sickened everyone with nanites. In the end, the last one lasted so long, the Gnome threw a net on it and the Monk was grappling and trying to pin it just so I could land the final blows.
Needless to say, yes, I was essentially all of this encounter's damage (except for the two Shocking Grasp crits) and it was frustrating as hell because I kept rolling under 5 or less. It would have been a breeze with the Barbarian and Fighter also contributing big hits, but with just me and no AoE yet, ugh...painful.
I still haven't been hit yet, so, I still feel like I'm wasting all my AC and HP--I have 6 more AC and 50% more HP than the "tanks" we were running with today--but my melee options are not exactly appealing, since I'd have to give up empowering that round to close the distance.
I didn't think this would happen because I love the concept so much, but, I'm getting bored as an armored turret, even doing as much damage as I do...
There is going to be a martial artist type archetype right? I so can't wait for that! I am going to roll a geokineticist tank that goes into water at level 7 and have very high AC/damage reduction.
I'll name him Steve Austin... Stone Cold Steve Austin...
Wait... Is elementally powered Wrestle Mania going to become a thing?
My body is ready...
There is going to be a martial artist type archetype right? I so can't wait for that! I am going to roll a geokineticist tank that goes into water at level 7 and have very high AC/damage reduction.
I'll name him Steve Austin... Stone Cold Steve Austin...
Wait... Is elementally powered Wrestle Mania going to become a thing?
My body is ready...
*AIR GUITAR* MEEEEEEEW NEENANEENA NEEEWW
KINETICIST WRESTLE MANIA WILL BE A THROW DOWN AT MR. TORGUE'S BADASS CRATER OF BADASSITUDE!!!
ARE YOU READY FOR....
THIS IS GOING TO BE F***ING AWESOME!!!!
I hope there'll be significant support via archetypes and such that building a melee kineticist will still be viable. I frankly prefer relying on kinetic blade over blasting.
Sounds like it has some of the problem that the 3.5 Warlock has in that you are very bursty and a string of bad rolls can completely take you out. It also sounds like you DM needs to work on challenging you. You should have some threat to your safety from time to time.
Yeah, I hit like a truck, but, I basically have zero options that are worth using over said truck.
Kinetic Cover is actually awesome, but I'm not going to spend actions foiling enemy attacks when I'm the party's only heavy hitter. Maybe when the Barbarian and Fighter come back, I don't know. I can move MASSIVE quantities of water around, but, well, there just aren't huge bodies of water around. The caves these robots were in weren't sloped down, either, so I couldn't flood them anyway. But moving water around or creating a tiny wall is 100% of my non-blasting ability.
I'm looking at the future here:
Next level, I get Composite, which will let me hit harder if I have to.
Before 10th, my only real options are Entangling (which only works on cold blasts, and I've found them severely lacking--the near guaranteed hit doesn't compensate for the lost damage in my DPR calculations), Snaking (which adds no options, just removes penalties), a increased speed + a swim speed (there's already no water and I don't move because I have to gather energy), tremorsense in water (again, not much water), and the Mobile Ball thing Mark previewed. The Mobile thing looks weak, but it might be interesting enough to justify trying it out--hopefully, it'll feel like a different option.
Then, at 10th, I can Air Walk, which is awesome, but since I don't move in a fight, it's more like just a useful utility than a real option. I can also get a permanent miss chance--very cool, but, again, not expanding options. The only thing in the near future that does expand options and tactical depth is Spark of Life, which also kind of sucks as is.
So, I'm getting concerned, I guess, is my point. The class's power as a blaster feels fine. End game DPR spreadsheets I ran suggested they keep reasonable pace with two-handed Barbarians (though, neither are close to archers or gunslingers)--I guess blasting just isn't as fun as I hoped.
As for the GM challenging me, I'm a Hydrokineticist with a relatively high starting stat array. Because the game is going Mythic (soon?), the GM has given us all Max HP. I have the same HP as the barbarian now--90 at level 6 (though I have 12 nonlethal worth of burn all the time). The fighter has 78. I think the Monk has 66, and the rest of the party has 60 or less.
I also have 26 AC, the highest in the party. The monk, cleric, and hunter's tiger pet have 22. Everyone else has 20 or less. I also have the best saves overall in the party (+13/+13/+8, though the Cleric and Monk have more Will).
I didn't mention it in the account above, but when it was clear the other members of the party couldn't get through their Hardness, the murderballs just ignored them, ate AoOs and charged me. Nothing could connect except their touch attacks, which did no damage, but nauseated on a failed fort save that I never failed. I don't think he could threaten me without wiping the rest of the party.
The class is built strong. It's really good at being a near-literal tank turret. Amazing defenses (except Will! I have invested so much in covering that weakness because burning myself to nothing and launching Empowered Composite blasts at my own teammates is probably the party's worst case scenario), high damage (not archery level, but still), no mobility.
I'm not concerned with power, here, just boredom.
high damage (not archery level, but still), no mobility.
Once iteratives and haste appear, you likely trade away the least amount of damage if you move, though. Most characters lose more than 1/3 of their damage for moving. That makes you more potentially mobile with less of a loss.
I don't understand, Mark. Can ranged Kineticists do iteratives? I thought they couldn't.
You don't have them, hence you traded less (your empower).
high damage (not archery level, but still), no mobility.Once iteratives and haste appear, you likely trade away the least amount of damage if you move, though. Most characters lose more than 1/3 of their damage for moving. That makes you more potentially mobile with less of a loss.
You're definitely right about that. Except for spellcasters. I guess this complaint is mostly about 3rd edition in general, then.
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Yes it would be nice if there were more options to have more utility and I am sure that will come when the full book comes out. Some of the problem I am seeing is that the options are very limited depending on what area you choose.
There is definitely a noticeable upsurge in wild talent options. That said, given that the other classes could all share the spell chapter and wild talents are in the classes chapter, it was a struggle to allocate as many pages for the wild talents as I managed to (and I paid the piper big time to have as many wild talent choices as we did), so I'm looking forward also to seeing even more in our other products!
I hope there is some kind of psychic parry ability against melee attacks.
Also a psychic deflect arrows ability but also works against ranged touch attack spells at higher levels.
Aww. I am just finding out about this playtest :( made it to page 45 before I gave up and just looked up the post mortem
Anyway was anything ever done about the fact that Dex is a primary stat rather than any of the mental ones? Con was thematically appropriate. however, ANY of the mental stats should have kicked Dex to the curb in terms of flavor. Realy and truly, Wis should have been the to-hit stat. after all, you are GUIDING your element with your mind by waving around your hands rather than shooting it (not that you couldn't guide it in a straight line though).
Then again, I can see the base version as being left with Dex as your generic second score so that you can use archetypes to assign the to-hit to other ability scores so that people can make kinetisists from different traditions (big brained alien headed kinetisists from comics use Int, Benders and jedi use Wis, DBZ fighters might use Cha).
Aww. I am just finding out about this playtest :( made it to page 45 before I gave up and just looked up the post mortem
Anyway was anything ever done about the fact that Dex is a primary stat rather than any of the mental ones? Con was thematically appropriate. however, ANY of the mental stats should have kicked Dex to the curb in terms of flavor. Realy and truly, Wis should have been the to-hit stat. after all, you are GUIDING your element with your mind by waving around your hands rather than shooting it (not that you couldn't guide it in a straight line though).
Then again, I can see the base version as being left with Dex as your generic second score so that you can use archetypes to assign the to-hit to other ability scores so that people can make kinetisists from different traditions (big brained alien headed kinetisists from comics use Int, Benders and jedi use Wis, DBZ fighters might use Cha).
One might make the same argument for any of the magical classes with magical ranged attacks. A Wizard using Socrching Ray is using is intelligence to direct the rays, a Sorcerer basically uses his force of personality to enact changes to reality, thus altering reality to make his spell hit, and a Cleric would use his Wisdom to guide his Searing Light to the correct location.
The reality is, of course, Einstein may have been a genius, and could calculate the correct vectors for ranged accuracy, but that doesn't mean he has the physicality to do so.
There are many people who are archers or snipers or pitchers all capable of forcing an object to hit a target at range, but they don't have to be particularly bright, or wise or charismatic to do so. What they have, is skill and the physical means to make it happen.
Remember, the Kineticist is unleashing the energy as it courses through his body, once it leaves his body, it is no longer under his control. The Kineticist just directs the energy at his target. In many ways, the Kineticist is not unlike the barrel of a gun. He stores the energy, and fires it, but once it's left the barrel, he can direct it no longer and has to trust in his skill, and hope, that he aimed the energy at the right spot.
Remember, the Kineticist is unleashing the energy as it courses through his body, once it leaves his body, it is no longer under his control. The Kineticist just directs the energy at his target. In many ways, the Kineticist is not unlike the barrel...That would be true for a true blaster, but the kenisist can manipulate things at will, not just toss them. It's more like throwing a rock and it gaining some force behind it rather than shooting from a cannon. Take the kamehameha from DBZ for example. It is usually shot like a beam, but some times the characters change its direction mid shot. in fact, most of the time, the beam curves towards the target. the same applies to benders, jedi and even the poltergeists from horror stories.
In short, the blast aim is not a physical thing in most traditions, but a mental thing. the problem is which mental thing. different traditions use different things. jedi use WIS to will things to happen, aliens use INT to calculate and change objects vectors, the Magneto from X-men seems to lean towards CHA.
Personally if the stat were changed for the main class, I would avoid INT (due to it screwing with skill points and stepping on the toes of the wizard)and CHA (same for the sorcerer though not as problematic as INT) and would lean towards WIS (due to the issue of Will saves, the fact that there are no real WIS blasters [all buffers or the monk],and the fact that you are actively controlling things with a fair degree of finesse.
My suggestion, if it isn't changed outright, would be to create a wild talent of feat to change the to-hit and damge to a mental stat of your choice or to create archetypes that do so (though that's a bit restrictive.
Remember, the Kineticist is unleashing the energy as it courses through his body, once it leaves his body, it is no longer under his control. The Kineticist just directs the energy at his target. In many ways, the Kineticist is not unlike the barrel...That would be true for a true blaster, but the kenisist can manipulate things at will, not just toss them. It's more like throwing a rock and it gaining some force behind it rather than shooting from a cannon. Take the kamehameha from DBZ for example. It is usually shot like a beam, but some times the characters change its direction mid shot. in fact, most of the time, the beam curves towards the target. the same applies to benders, jedi and even the poltergeists from horror stories.
In short, the blast aim is not a physical thing in most traditions, but a mental thing. the problem is which mental thing. different traditions use different things. jedi use WIS to will things to happen, aliens use INT to calculate and change objects vectors, the Magneto from X-men seems to lean towards CHA.
Personally if the stat were changed for the main class, I would avoid INT (due to it screwing with skill points and stepping on the toes of the wizard)and CHA (same for the sorcerer though not as problematic as INT) and would lean towards WIS (due to the issue of Will saves, the fact that there are no real WIS blasters [all buffers or the monk],and the fact that you are actively controlling things with a fair degree of finesse.
My suggestion, if it isn't changed outright, would be to create a wild talent of feat to change the to-hit and damge to a mental stat of your choice or to create archetypes that do so (though that's a bit restrictive.
The flavor of the Kineticist class has nothing to do with mental abilities though. There is no Chi, Ki, Mana or anything like that involved. The Kineticist is all about being a conduit for psychokinetic energy; channeling it through his body, at risk of great harm to himself, controlling and focusing it, before releasing it onto it's directed path.
Also, the sources you site for inspriation aren't exactly the best ones. DBZ characters have their power directly related to their physical condition. The stronger they are physically, the more energy they have available. Case in point, when Trunks hulked up while fighting Cell. He was stronger and had more powerful blasts, but his reduced speed made him lose to Cell. Avatar Benders are similar. You don't see very many fat benders (Iroh being an exception) in the Avatar world; Bumi, for example, is over 100 years old but built like a rock. Even Iroh, the only real fat guy in the whole show, begins exercising and getting himself fit again in order to truly fight in the war.
Likewise, Jedi are, almost without fail, all in top physical condition. Very rarely do Jedi or Sith, exist in less than stellar physical condition, unless they can use the force to mitigate their weakness, if only temporarily (Yoda and Palpatine). Using the Force even causes physical strain on the body, look at Luke when he tried to lift his X-Wing or Yoda when he and Dooku where throwing objects back and forth.
I do understand where you're coming from, however. But you must realize that there are very, very view options that allows for your mental stats to determine an attack bonus. Most of those are only temporary. The few exceptions that come to mind are certain spells, the Guided weapon property, the Zen Warrior Monk archetype and the Sensei Monk archetype. All of these options are highly restricted or of limited duration.
Allowing an entire class do to do it? Especially when the flavor of the class is all about the physical and not the mental? Kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I wish casters could use there casting stat instead of Str/Dex for to hit with spells that require an attack roll. I also wish the same for this class though I would prefer Int or Cha over Wis.
Also, the sources you site for inspriation aren't exactly the best ones. DBZ characters have their power directly related to their physical condition. The stronger they are physically, the more energy they have available. Case in point, when Trunks hulked up while fighting Cell. He was stronger and had more powerful blasts, but his reduced speed made him lose to Cell. Avatar Benders are similar. You don't see very many fat benders (Iroh being an exception) in the Avatar world; Bumi, for example, is over 100 years old but built like a rock. Even Iroh, the only real fat guy in the whole show, begins exercising and getting himself fit again in order to truly fight in the war.your misunderstanding. I am not under any circumstances saying to take away the physical completely. CON should stay one of the main stats. I would even let CON slide as the concentration check stat (can endure more so distractions aren't as effective, though a mental stat would be slightly better flavor-wise)
I am saying that DEX needs to be replaced. DBZ has people meditating all the time. Same with starwars. You are controlling wild and unpredictable forces and bending them to your will. traditionally, kinetisists, especially telekenetisists, arn't careful aimers. They are spur of the moment flingers and whip things around them rather than shooting.
also, putting aside the to-hit stat debate, I for one would like to humbly request that ROCKET PUNCHES BE A THING OH GOD CREATE THE WILD TALENT NOW!
(flame jet/telekenisis self as a super powerful super charge attack)
also, putting aside the to-hit stat debate, I for one would like to humbly request that ROCKET PUNCHES BE A THING OH GOD CREATE THE WILD TALENT NOW!
(flame jet/telekenisis self as a super powerful super charge attack)
That's essentially what Ride the Blast does, actually. You can just fluff it as a rocket punch/kick/whatever.
Just came up with an archetype idea! how about an archetype based around the drive forms of kingdom hearts 2?
You start with a kinetic melee weapon ( maybe pyro has a floating fireball that stays 2 inches from his hand etc.)
At lvl 4 you gain a second one and two weapon fighting (and double slice). you can spend a point of burn to turn the second one into a sort of dancing weapon (though treat it as though you are wielding it) that reduces the penalty by 1.
At 8th,the second weapon no longer needs burn to be "dancing and the penalty is reduced to 0.
At 12th, you gain a third one that functions like the second one used to.
At 16th, the 3rd one becomes "dancing" for free with a penalty of 0
At 20, you gain a 4th one. If you burn to make it dance, it not only gives no penalty, but you can make a 5th one in your hand as well.
the archetype should provide a "Monk flurry" solution to BAB. the cost of this ability is that the kinetisist loses access to blast and all blast talents (can still take utility talents though) if he has multiple elements, the weapons can be different types (lightning balls, force blades, a flying tendril of water etc.)
the elements can even provide deflection bonuses and resistances that depend on the elements used (1 AC/ weapon, and/or 2 elemental resistance per weapon of a particular type. maybe at lvl 20 all weapons provide the bonuses of all other elements.
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Mark. Does that mean the kineticists damage isn't multiplied on critical hits any longer? o.ONo, it totally is still multiplied on a crit. It was an explanation of why I wouldn't be using Heladriel's suggestion (well that and the class is already to the editors, so it's past the point of no return in most regards, but that's the difference between an explanation and a reason, and I prefer an explanation).
Let's focus on the important bits.
...the class is already to the editors, so it's past the point of no return in most regards...
This would mean, in my eyes, that further suggestions on the class are kind of pointless. Unless someone finds some game breaking combo with the Kineticist that Mark already hadn't been made aware of (though his knowledge or elsewhere), then I doubt there will be any further changes to the class.
That means like class abilities, including Wild Talents, are already in their final form. So I won't say stop suggesting new abilities for the class, but you have to know it's probably edging on the side of futility.
However, I don't know how Paizo does their archetype design, but I would imagine the archetype writers would get a complete copy of the class before starting on their archetypes.
So... if Mark hasn't already finalized what archetypes he has ordered, it might not be too late to keep coming up with ideas of archetypes. Though how much use that will be is unknown as we don't know who the writers are of if they are still reading this thread, or even if they have ever read this thread.
With all of the above in mind... what archetypes would you guys like to see?
Here's my personal list of desires:
Melee Kineticist can also double as KinetiMonk.
Unarmed Kineticist (KinetiMonk) can also double as Melee Kineticist.
Spirit Detective ala Yu Yu Hakusho, though this could be an archetype for the Monk giving Kineticist like powers.
Primal Kineticist focuses heavily on taking the forms of elementals.
Dual-Kineticist As vanilla Kineticist, but gaining early access to another element, but can never take another element.
Kinetic Healer better able to use healing wild talents and can do more than just heal hp.
Special note: Single Element Focused Kineticist - focuses on a single element to the exclusion of all others.
Aether limited dabbling in other kineticist power, such as being able to raise and lower earth or control and direct fires, but nowhere near on the scale of even a vanilla geo/pyrokinetic.
Aero capable of more party buffs, espionage and travel (think haste, invisibility and even teleportation).
Geo capable of altering landscapes on large scales; possibly even causing earthquakes or waking volcanoes, even raising mountains
Hydro capable of bloodbending and plant bending plus more powers over ice/fog.
Pyro hotter more intense burns, capable of burning even those immune to fire, also even more capable of burning away magic and other supernatural forces i.e. flames can act as banishment/dismissal and possibly even rendering an area void of magic for short a short time or even burning through planar boundaries.
I had another session. Nothing happened once again. We had one "fight" and by "fight" I mean the GM just wanted us to grovel with a monster we couldn't touch (we're level 6, a 28 to hit missed, and the thing was rolling against us in the 40s), even though we spent the previous session preparing to fight it and buying weapons to hurt it. That was...horrible...but, it still shows a weakness of the class:
I'm getting more and more frustrated by the lack of narrative power--since this game is, bizarrely, not including many fights, there's basically nothing I can do to contribute to the game beyond roll my lousy skills. I hate that I basically need magic spells for my class to meaningfully interact with this campaign.
The game is going Mythic and, well, nothing in the Mythic rules meaningfully interacts with my SLAs. My only option is Guardian, which would add even more unnecessary, irrelevant toughness to my "diamond cannon."
At this point, with a heavy heart, I am trying to maneuver the GM into letting me rebuild as a different class or switch characters completely. The math on the class works totally fine, but, I'm effectively just a more different fighter that doesn't need a piece of equipment to fly (eventually) or get special senses. :(
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Up to lvl 9 with a telekinetic human. Took expanded element for aether and I feel a bit of a weird problem. I don't have access to any better form/substance infusions really. Fire/water/air/earth have a lot more options. I was wondering...was there a point to using the composite blast aethric boost? 2 burn for +1/die for simple blasts only. Why use this over empowered at any point in time? +50% variable, average 1.75/die for 1 point. Am I missing something?
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I'm getting more and more frustrated by the lack of narrative power--since this game is, bizarrely, not including many fights, there's basically nothing I can do to contribute to the game beyond roll my lousy skills. I hate that I basically need magic spells for my class to meaningfully interact with this campaign.
That's really disheartening to hear. I'm having a similar, but opposite, problem in a campaign I'm in: there's barely any way to meaningfully contribute in fights with spells beyond buffs and they have no narrative power. Our GM really likes his story railroad and he specifically gave most monsters nearly unbeatable SR for our level, in addition to a host of immunities and special abilities (like True Seeing on literally everything.)
That's really disheartening to hear. I'm having a similar, but opposite, problem in a campaign I'm in: there's barely any way to meaningfully contribute in fights with spells beyond buffs and they have no narrative power. Our GM really likes his story railroad and he specifically gave most monsters nearly unbeatable SR for our level, in addition to a host of immunities and special abilities (like True Seeing on literally everything.)
I'm getting more and more frustrated by the lack of narrative power--since this game is, bizarrely, not including many fights, there's basically nothing I can do to contribute to the game beyond roll my lousy skills. I hate that I basically need magic spells for my class to meaningfully interact with this campaign.
:( I'm sorry everybody. This can certainly happen to anybody depending on the GM, unfortunately. For example, I try to sneak in some fun non-combat narrative powers every once in a while, like a new divinatory ability for the monk, but it reminds me that some GMs make divinations worthless. True, it's a delicate balancing act, since it's very possible for divinations to make the game no fun due to being too strong. One of the marks, in my experience, of a good GM is one who can run with divination spells in a way that enriches the game, lends a feeling of empowerment to the player who cast the spell, and doesn't cause this to give everything away. Frex, in PFS, a somewhat newer player had finally reached level 7 with his knowledge cleric, and he wanted to cast divination to Qi Zhong, but he was tentative because it was his highest slot. In the end he asked me if it was a good spell, and I told him that sometimes knowledge is power. He decided to give it a try. I took a while to compose a poem, which obscurely hinted at almost every plot point in the scenario, and he showed it to everybody. They put their heads together and correctly figured out one thing and incorrectly figured out a second, planning countermeasures for both. When they encountered the correctly-figured-out thing and nailed the encounter, that cleric was a freaking hero, and the cleric kept the poem close by, where he would figure out the other verses in hindsight, like "Oh, of course. That's what Qi Zhong meant!".
I think in the campaign I'm currently running, the ninja might have the most "narrative power," but my players work collectively to pool their abilities based on group strategies, so the fact that, say, it usually turns out that transit happens from the druid using transport via plants is somewhat deemphasized. To be fair, in the ninja's case, it's because he has a sketchy but powerful artifact, so the narrative is about the sacrifice of his own soul that he's making due to his utterly loyalty to the bard, how far he has really fallen, just how powerful he might have become, and how much is the artifact's fault.
I don't mean to sound spoiled by my previous post. Just trying to understand if there was a situation I didn't consider.
I recommend empower if you can only do one, but aetheric+empower is sometimes a good choice if you can do both. Aetheric is particularly good for Fire+Aether, as it's one of the few touch composites and doesn't require going double Fire.
So... if Mark hasn't already finalized what archetypes he has ordered, it might not be too late to keep coming up with ideas of archetypes. Though how much use that will be is unknown as we don't know who the writers are of if they are still reading this thread, or even if they have ever read this thread.
With all of the above in mind... what archetypes would you guys like to see?
In terms of archetypes, (using monk as an example) we need two types: a monk flavored kinetisist and a kinetisist flavored monk. the idea I posted above could probably be retooled to be the kinetisist archetype. a monk archetype would probably have the element actually coat his fists rather than a floating ball/blade.
Also keep in mind that even if we are too late for this book, future books will have more archetypes and wild talents and we should therefore keep the ideas coming.
on that note, more archtypes ideas!:
1. An Alchemest styled archtype where you throw an element ball that then explodes like a bomb. (imagine it. goblins no longer need alchemest smarts to boom things)
2. Misdirection telekenetisist who specializes in walls of force, reflecting attacks and defending the party (imagine making putting small walls of force right in peoples faces that the enemy then has to move around, that you cast as an immediate action against charging enemies to run into or movable force walls that you use to push and/or crush enemies. Maybe a gravity void element thing thrown in. true battlefield control.
3. Illusionist who uses force or heat or water to distort light.
4. A true ranged cannon type who shoots elements rather than throw them
5. one with the ability to sense life force (thereby making invisibility useless and making the snaking talent much more terrifying)and has scrying through their element. (can look in a camp fire and see through someones fireplace or in a lake and out the evil nobles wine glass)
6. a detective earth type who can detect lies (can read your heartbeat), detect enemies touching the ground, track trails, detect impurities (and what said impurities are and where they lead) and can imprison his quarry in earth cages, handcuffs etc without killing (or crush them in said cages.
7. A true wethermaster ah la storm of the xmen
8. Element removal and absorption in bodies. (you can dehydrate enemies, suck the heat out or give them a fever, pull the iron from their blood, screw with electric impulses in their nervous system etc.)
8. I've always wanted to see a mario type fighter who jumps on people. maybe a force jumper who jumps high and hen impacts with force. (this one need not even be a kinetisist thing. Maybe a future monk thing or a class all its own)
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I don't mean to sound spoiled by my previous post. Just trying to understand if there was a situation I didn't consider.I recommend empower if you can only do one, but aetheric+empower is sometimes a good choice if you can do both. Aetheric is particularly good for Fire+Aether, as it's one of the few touch composites and doesn't require going double Fire.
The only one I can see with fire is plasma(air/fire) steam(water/fire) magma(earth/fire) and blue fire(fire x2) and I started with aether :(
The only one I can see with fire is plasma(air/fire) steam(water/fire) magma(earth/fire) and blue fire(fire x2) and I started with aether :(I don't mean to sound spoiled by my previous post. Just trying to understand if there was a situation I didn't consider.I recommend empower if you can only do one, but aetheric+empower is sometimes a good choice if you can do both. Aetheric is particularly good for Fire+Aether, as it's one of the few touch composites and doesn't require going double Fire.
The rewording in the final makes it clear that primary aether also get aetheric boost, so aether/fire would get aetheric boosted fire blast. Of the others you mention, only blue flame is touch.
Are you allowed to tell us how many wild talents they will get at level 1, Mark? =)
I'll say this: In the efforts of increasing versatility for single-classed kineticists with more powers throughout the levels, rather than helping dips get lots of low-level powers, I went more so for increasing progression speed rather than starting amount.
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I see the kineticist as a blaster role with a dabble in versatility. We have a lot of cool fluff, some more useful than others, and a lot depend on how outside the box you can think.(floating stairs and the like) I would like to see the archetype capabilities for the class because with the limited class features it will be an interesting note to see where they go. This is top 3 for my favored class list. Up with the monk and swashbuckler. It gives me the opportunity yo play a caster(like) role without having to rely on the small spell list or having to chose which to prepare and hope that they will come in handy