General Discussion: Kineticist


Rules Discussion

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Tels wrote:

The single blast of the Kineticist is supposed to give a lesser, but comparable, damage to that of a full attack (mostly when compared to an archery full attack). Archery itself does less damage than a full attack, but has more chances for it, which is why archery is a high damage combat style. Melee, however, gets a lot more damage bonuses, especially 2-hand melee.

Damage should be as such melee > archery > kinetic blast. However, due to the nature of the Kinetic Blast, it's single blast is going to due comparable damage to the full attack of other classes.

That means, if you use a system in which a single melee Kinetic Blast does the same damage as a ranged Kinetic Blast, then if the melee Kinetic Blast gets a full attack, it changes the damage progression to Melee Kineticist > melee full attack > archery > kinetic blast.

The Kineticist should not be the melee class to play, but it should still be functional as one. The best way to do that is to ensure that the melee option does more damage than a Kinetic Blast, but only over the course of a full attack.

Unfortunately, this means that melee kineticist at low levels won't be as good as ranged attacks (only a single attack), but that is also very appropriate as the Kineticist is designed more around ranged attacks than melee anyway.

As it stands, the Kineticist is one of if not the best switch hitter classes in the game. Right up there with Strength Rangers, and Dawnflower Dervish Bards.

I think you might be right. the problem isn't that blasts are too powerful but that melee gives the chance to hit with multiple blasts. we could nerf melee, but the difficulty is that the melee often doesn't hit with all his attacks. This makes achieving the proper balance tricky. If he hits with all his attacks, melee overshadows blast. if melee is nerfed, when he hits normally blast become the better deal. The best thing to do to make the calculations easy would be for blast to just involve itteratives the same as melee. That makes the luck factor the same and thus gets rid of wonky math.

However, this is not to say that the kinetisist shouldn't have an all or nothing option like what we have now. maybe a feat or class feature could allow a kinetisist to make a super blast at a hit penalty on a standard action rather than the single small shot he gets on a standard. Alternatively, make it a talent without the penalty but with burn.

Now the question remains, should melee and blasts (nerfed with itteratives) deal the same damage? melee still needs some reason to be better than blasting due to the danger factor. Would giving the blade a d6 "weapon damage" die in addition to the blast die do the trick? maybe the blade does bludgeoning (slashing and piercing with a talent) if made of pure energy, but if used to coat an actual weapon, it does the weapons damage instead?

of course, all of this pondering is basically spitting in the wind at this point. The core mechanics of the class are done leaving us only with room for feats, archetypes, and wild talents.

another talent/feat idea: kinetic blade used as a two handed weapon.


I'm very late to the party (and have only read the first 17 pages plus last 2 of this topic). But I have a question on how kinetic blade/whip would interact with the vital strike feats. My assumption from the wording of vital strike is that a blast that does 1d6 +1 +con mod + an additionally 1d6 +1 per 2 levels above 1st would only multiply the number of d6s rolled and not the additional +1s or con modifier. Would that be a correct assumption?

Furthermore, would it interact with the empower/maximize metakinesis abilities by adding the metakinesis to just the base blast damage and have to role the extra dice just normally, or would you apply the metakinesis to the whole die pool?

If my initial assumption is correct and we're looking at the generous of the metakinesis interactions, I could do 309 with an improved vital strike with an air blast kinetic blade at level 20, using 1 burn by gathering element beforehand. This is assuming the character only has a 22 con, vital strike, improved vital strike, and took form infusion specialization at this point(the damage would be a lot more if using a composite blast, and it would increase the burn by one. Though to be fair, I could do between 355 and 405 with a two-handed fighter of the same level (though, that's with maxed starting strength, optimizing the build, access to magic tomes, belts, a +5 impact weapon, adding a -11 to the attack roll, and relies on the target not being immune to critical hits)


Fen Arben wrote:

I'm very late to the party (and have only read the first 17 pages plus last 2 of this topic). But I have a question on how kinetic blade/whip would interact with the vital strike feats. My assumption from the wording of vital strike is that a blast that does 1d6 +1 +con mod + an additionally 1d6 +1 per 2 levels above 1st would only multiply the number of d6s rolled and not the additional +1s or con modifier. Would that be a correct assumption?

Furthermore, would it interact with the empower/maximize metakinesis abilities by adding the metakinesis to just the base blast damage and have to role the extra dice just normally, or would you apply the metakinesis to the whole die pool?

If my initial assumption is correct and we're looking at the generous of the metakinesis interactions, I could do 309 with an improved vital strike with an air blast kinetic blade at level 20, using 1 burn by gathering element beforehand. This is assuming the character only has a 22 con, vital strike, improved vital strike, and took form infusion specialization at this point(the damage would be a lot more if using a composite blast, and it would increase the burn by one. Though to be fair, I could do between 355 and 405 with a two-handed fighter of the same level (though, that's with maxed starting strength, optimizing the build, access to magic tomes, belts, a +5 impact weapon, adding a -11 to the attack roll, and relies on the target not being immune to critical hits)

As it currently stands, Mark has said the final version of Kinetic Blade/Whip will not function with Vital Strike. The current playtest version, does, however.

Within the bounds of the playtest, Empower and Maximize do interact with Vital Strike but only insofar as how they increase the base damage.

For example, if you had Improved Vital Strike (roll weapon damage 3 times) and a 10d6+10+con blast, you would roll 30d6+10+con for damage. If you used Empower, your blast would be 15d6+15+Con and you'd roll 45d6+15+con for damage. If you Maximized it, you would deal 70+con for damage, but on a Vital Strike, you would deal 20d6+70+con for damage. An Empowered, Maximized melee attack would then roll 75+5d6+con for a normal hit, and a Vital Strike would roll 35d6+75+con on an attack.

Maximize only affects the base weapon damage, and the extra damage from Vital Strike would not be maximized. Empower affects how much damage the base weapon does, which is then increase by Vital Strike as you roll the base weapon damage multiple times.

Does that help?


Thanks, that was very helpful. I have a player who is wanting to try this class out and I wanted to make sure I got a better understanding of it than him before I start the campaign (I doubt he'd think of that combo, but I wanted to understand how it'd work just in case).


Fen Arben wrote:
Thanks, that was very helpful. I have a player who is wanting to try this class out and I wanted to make sure I got a better understanding of it than him before I start the campaign (I doubt he'd think of that combo, but I wanted to understand how it'd work just in case).

I would suggest not allowing Vital Strike to work with it at all, on the off chance someone mentions it to him and thinks he can build up a combat style based around it.

Also, I would suggest doing a search for Mark Seifter's posts in this thread, he's teased a few abilities that will change and be included in the playtest. For example, Pyrokineticist will be able to 'burn' away magic affecting enemies (basically dispelling buffs). Feel the Burn was also changed in some ways too, so it'd behoove you to find these changes and maybe try them out.


The lack of vital strike is justified really. Vital strike multiplies weapon damage but not additional damage from properties and stats. kinetic blade is basically nothing BUT non-weapon dice. It's not so much that the feat doesn't work with kinetic blade as it is that there is nothing to multiply in the first place. Long story short, vital strike is redundant when used with blade.

Silver Crusade

,.... What are you talking about.. Vital strike multiplies weapon dice. Kinetic blast is nothing But weapon dice. I'm actually quite upset as this was a class that made such a feat actually WORTH it without having to be some Super powerful caster or Giant monster... Or Jabberwock. Even with all the craziness that was applied to the blast it still didnt compare to Archers or Standard full attacks. But it made your cannon an Actual cannon.. Just a shot range one.


Well if they let us do full damage with cones, lines, and bursts effects then I would be happy.

I am fine with vital strike not working with this class.

Designer

Dragon78 wrote:

Well if they let us do full damage with cones, lines, and bursts effects then I would be happy.

I am fine with vital strike not working with this class.

Here's a fun teaser for you then. The main reason you were seeing half damage on many of those area effects is that typically physical blasts do half damage on area effects and energy blasts do full. I'll leave it to you guys as an exercise to math and logic out why it works like that (it's the right way to make it work vis-a-vis the balance between the two types of blast and the choices you make between them). Anyway, now with more AoE energy blasts available, you'll be seeing a lot more full damage AoE!


Mark Seifter wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:

Well if they let us do full damage with cones, lines, and bursts effects then I would be happy.

I am fine with vital strike not working with this class.

Here's a fun teaser for you then. The main reason you were seeing half damage on many of those area effects is that typically physical blasts do half damage on area effects and energy blasts do full. I'll leave it to you guys as an exercise to math and logic out why it works like that (it's the right way to make it work vis-a-vis the balance between the two types of blast and the choices you make between them). Anyway, now with more AoE energy blasts available, you'll be seeing a lot more full damage AoE!

But will it come at a level at which it's actually useful? If I recall, the closest analog to fireball doesn't come online until level 16 or so.

As for why physical blasts do half-aoe and energy does full... because melee blasts will deal full melee and energy blasts do half melee? It seems choosing a physical blasts for AoE is going to be really harsh (especially for Telekineticists and Geokineticists). I mean, half damage on a blast, and damage reduction on top of it? Ouch.

The other possibility is that physical blasts also deform the terrain and/or create obstacles.

Like a 20 ft. radius AoE Earth blast causes pillars/spears to erupt from the ground doing bludgeoning or piericing damage and leaving the terrain as disfigured for a short time (rounds per level maybe?).

Energy blasts, however, would just straight up deal damage.


Yeah it is kind of useless if you have to wait to level 7 or so to get cone/line effects when those pesky swarms are killing you at level one.

Designer

Tels wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:

Well if they let us do full damage with cones, lines, and bursts effects then I would be happy.

I am fine with vital strike not working with this class.

Here's a fun teaser for you then. The main reason you were seeing half damage on many of those area effects is that typically physical blasts do half damage on area effects and energy blasts do full. I'll leave it to you guys as an exercise to math and logic out why it works like that (it's the right way to make it work vis-a-vis the balance between the two types of blast and the choices you make between them). Anyway, now with more AoE energy blasts available, you'll be seeing a lot more full damage AoE!

But will it come at a level at which it's actually useful? If I recall, the closest analog to fireball doesn't come online until level 16 or so.

Certainly long before level 16, I assure you.


Just 4 more months until OA comes out, can't wait.


Yes that is great to hear, I love me some AOE but cutting the damage in half hurts when there is a saving throw to cut it again.

Going to be a long 4 months that is for sure. When will the previews start showing up?

Designer

Hargert wrote:

Yes that is great to hear, I love me some AOE but cutting the damage in half hurts when there is a saving throw to cut it again.

Going to be a long 4 months that is for sure. When will the previews start showing up?

Not for quite a while. Thar be a whole book in between (Unchained), for one thing. Based on pure speculation from previous launches, something like 6 weeks before release date with previews for each new class and its iconic seems pretty likely to me, but I have no clue.


Endoralis wrote:
,.... What are you talking about.. Vital strike multiplies weapon dice. Kinetic blast is nothing But weapon dice. I'm actually quite upset as this was a class that made such a feat actually WORTH it without having to be some Super powerful caster or Giant monster... Or Jabberwock. Even with all the craziness that was applied to the blast it still didnt compare to Archers or Standard full attacks. But it made your cannon an Actual cannon.. Just a shot range one.

Blast is a spell like ability, not a weapon. really, vital strike was mainly meant to be a monk thing to go with their ever increasing weapon damage. It can be applied to people wielding big weapons two handed too though.

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concerning the Area of Effect thing, it makes perfect sense how it is set up. AoE is meant for mook mop-up. Mooks tend to have lousy AC (if they don't, then they are wearing fancy armor or have outrageous natural AC, and if that is the case, they aren't mooks now are they?). Therefore a physical AoE blast will likely always hit (say about 90% of the time). This means that in order to balance the fact that you are hitting many at once consistently, the blast needs to be halved inherently.

Energy blasts are different. Usually a reflex save is involved rather than AC and reduces damage by half. Reflex is not something purchased but rather built into the monsters. This goes especially for mooks who tend to be small, numerous, and quick. This means that energy blasts will be halved fairly often about 75% of the time). The other 25% when they fail the save is taken care of by the fact that the inherent damage of energy attacks are slightly lower.

On the flavor front, a physical blast involves a bunch of "shrapnel" while an energy one involves an evenly disperser blanket of energy. makes sense that half of a shotgun effect would be wasted energy while an energy wave would kind of wrap around and consume the opponent. electricity courses through a person, fire consumes, water and acid drench and aether aethers things with its aether (physics? What physics?).

Silver Crusade

The blast is a weapon when it is used.. as a weapon, Thus whip and Blade. It just so happens to do blast damage. That is where you are wrong. It was not meant for Monks its was meant for big weapons the issue is the best users are MONSTERS and CASTERS. It was never meant for Monks.. at all. As there is NO Way for a Monk to even get the last feat.

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Your analysis of Damage to AOE is flawed as well. Energy Attacks hit touch there is no reflex and likely hit. Physical Attacks hit Full Ac there is again no reflex and can otherwise miss. Energy goes against Resistance and SR. Physical goes against DR. Even with physical getting full con and a +1 every interation the difference in damage between it and Energy is only around 8~ish at the level other casters are lobbing fireballs all the time. Meaning those with Energy choices will be significantly better while Earth and Aether will be screwed. Doing 1/4 or 1/2 damage that is ALSO weakened by DR is brutal.


I'm thinking physical AoE will have more to it than just damage, to help make the physical more different than energy attacks.

Things I could picture the different blasts doing:

Aether: disarm, trip, bull rush, etc. (nearly any combat maneuver) along with difficult terrain (ripping the floor apart, scattering debris, you name it); possibly even a "maneuver over time" effect, as in, the telekinetic energy lingering in the area could cause people to lose their grip on their weapons, be knocked prone, or even be blasted out of the area.

Air: I'm thinking swirling currents of wind could knock flying creatures our of the air, bull rush and trip enemies; possibly even an AoE damage over time (a vortex of wind batters enemies in the AoE, for example).

Earth: bull rush (dealing more damage) or trip foes (possibly pinning them, similar to a grapple), creates difficult terrain, possibly even trap enemies similar to an avalanche.

Water: bull rush and knock prone (very common theme), trap enemies in balls of water (potential drowning); possibly create exploding spears of ice that impale and entangle enemies, leaving difficult terrain in the AoE (similar to Ice Storm).

I don't know how one would go about writing such abilities without also taking up tons of space to do it. But the abilities, like the above, would be really awesome to see in game!

Silver Crusade

As long as we get some kind of equality/viability against the overwhelming ability and options of the strongest Kineticist (hydro) for other elements, I'll be fine.


Endoralis wrote:

The blast is a weapon when it is used.. as a weapon, Thus whip and Blade. It just so happens to do blast damage. That is where you are wrong. It was not meant for Monks its was meant for big weapons the issue is the best users are MONSTERS and CASTERS. It was never meant for Monks.. at all. As there is NO Way for a Monk to even get the last feat.

------------

Your analysis of Damage to AOE is flawed as well. Energy Attacks hit touch there is no reflex and likely hit. Physical Attacks hit Full Ac there is again no reflex and can otherwise miss. Energy goes against Resistance and SR. Physical goes against DR. Even with physical getting full con and a +1 every interation the difference in damage between it and Energy is only around 8~ish at the level other casters are lobbing fireballs all the time. Meaning those with Energy choices will be significantly better while Earth and Aether will be screwed. Doing 1/4 or 1/2 damage that is ALSO weakened by DR is brutal.

I can see where you are coming from in terms of the monk. The feat is still most useful for a monk, but the "not being able to take the last feat" thing makes it more of a big two handed weapon feat. I don't see how it relates to casters though as melee casters rarely use two handed, definitely never use big weapons, and only have a 1/3 BAB (or 2/3 for partial casters putting them in the same boat as the monk).

As for vital strike functioning, Kinetic blade specifically omits weapon damage. remember this is a form infusion of a blast. it's a blast with a different shape. that's the logical reason it does not work. mechanically, vital strike on a (at lvl 9) 5d6 for practically no cost is insanely broken.

concerning AoE, AoE does NOT hit touch. That's normal energy blasts and magic rays your thinking of. AoE is stuff like burning hands and fireball which are reflex for half damage. The halving combined with the fact that mook swarm type monsters tend to get High reflex (and therefore half it often) combined with inherently weaker dice means that it balances out with physical AoE that is halved but almost always hits. example:

con=4, lvl 1
electric: 1d6+ 1/2con
damage dealt = average 5dmg (failed save) 3dmg (made the save)

wind: 1d6+1+con all halved
damage = average 4dmg

at lvl 5:

electric: 3d6+ 1/2con
damage: average 11 (failed) 6 (saved)

wind: 3d6+3+con all halved
damage: average 8dmg

physical ends up being good for little fast mooks while energy is good for big slow high HP and AC mooks.

Of course this applies only to AoE. when it comes to normal blasts, you have to factor in touch AC, but your physical blasts are not halved.


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A non-trivial FAQ for the Kineticist.


Hey guys, just a quick thing that I wanted to ask about. Why did you decide to use terrakinesis rather than geokinesis? The former seems to be a mix of Latin and Greek where Terra means Earth and Kinesis means moving. I'm only making this observation because the other terms (i.e. pyrokinesis, aerokineses hydrokinesis) are totally greek. Is there a reason you decided to use terra instead of geo, perhaps it sounds better, etc.?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Austin Collins 607 wrote:
Hey guys, just a quick thing that I wanted to ask about. Why did you decide to use terrakinesis rather than geokinesis? The former seems to be a mix of Latin and Greek where Terra means Earth and Kinesis means moving. I'm only making this observation because the other terms (i.e. pyrokinesis, aerokineses hydrokinesis) are totally greek. Is there a reason you decided to use terra instead of geo, perhaps it sounds better, etc.?

I know it's an enormously long thread, but that was discussed early on and i believe geo was agreed upon as the official name.


Hey guys, It's a pretty huge thread and it was probably been answered already, but I really liked this class and I'm still trying to figure out how it is going to be played.
So, in the final version, which feats are going to work with the Kineticist Blasts? I mean, feats like Precise Shot, Snap Shot, Weapon Focus, Point-blank Shot, etc.
I know Vital Strike won't work, but what will?

Which will work with the ranged touch attack blasts and which are going to work with the ranged attack blasts?

And finally which are going to work with the "Melee" Blasts (kinetic blade/whip)?

Sorry for beeing late, but I would love some help with these questions.

Grand Lodge

I need clarification on this:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

OFFICAL UPDATES:

Burn damage cannot be reduced or redirected.

Does that supersede what's in the text?

Burn (Ex): For each point of burn she accepts, a kineticist suffers one point of nonlethal damage per character level. This damage cannot be removed by any means without a full night's rest. A full night’s rest removes all burn and all associated nonlethal damage.
If she has both hands free, as a move action, a kineticist can visibly gather elemental matter around her, allowing her to reduce the total burn cost of a wild talent used in the same round by 1 point (min. of 0 pts).

Designer

Costs can be reduced. The damage cannot.

Grand Lodge

Mark Seifter wrote:
Costs can be reduced. The damage cannot.

I'm confused on the difference. So if it's burn 4, you can reduce it to 3, but still take 4 non-lethal damage? I don't get it.


You take nonlethal damage AFTER taking burn.

If you take 4 burn, you take 4 x character level in nonlethal damage. The nonlethal damage can't be reduced by any means such as damage reduction, nonlethal damage reduction, magic. If one is immune to nonlethal damage, the burn mechanic is useless for that character and no positive benefits or negative consequences.

If you reduce the burn (such as with move-action gather energy) from 4 to 3, you only take 3 x character level in nonlethal damage.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I thought if the burn is 4 and you can reduce the cost by 1, then you only take 3 non lethal points of damage?

I think Protoman the "x character level" refers to the amount of non lethal damag by burn you can absorbed before it starts to affect your actual non-lethal damage hit points.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So in theory the damage from the burn mechanic after prior cost reduction cannot be reduced further by anything that would reduce normal non-lethal damage.

Silver Crusade

No he is right, Burn hurts. No matter what every point of burn is your character level x that amount in non-lethal damage and you cant heal it until the next day. The Con Cap is just the AMOUNT of Burn you can take throughout the entire day. Pro tip, get things like Toughness, Favored Class Bonus and Finding Heleen Trait to mitigate this somewhat.


Think of it this way, you have a number of points of non-lethal damage equal to the your character level multiplied by the amount of burn you have. The non-lethal damage itself can never be reduced in anyway, but the amount of burn you take, can be.

So if I'm 10th level and I have 3 burn, I have 30 points of damage. No spell, feat, class ability, monster ability, psionic power, psychic incantation, mythic ability etc. can reduce that damage (well... maybe a future mythic ability). Your non-lethal damage is always equal to your character level multiplied by your burn total.

You can absolutely reduce the amount of burn you've take, but once you've taken the burn, you can't reduce it or the non-lethal damage, without a full nights rest.

Grand Lodge

Has someone figured out what the bonus would be to playing an areokineticist with chain lightning vs. an arcanist or sorcerer with chain lightning? Because 30 non-lethal damage seems rather significant for the same 10d6 damage. Even more if you're paying extra burn for a metamagic feat equivalent. At least arcanists and sorcerers can use pearls to get back their spells, and a cleric's healing if they took damage, after a major fight. Meanwhile, the kineticist seems more like a welcome back to the 15 minute day.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The bonus would be the ability to attach a rider to it and that it DOESN'T cost 3 burn, because by the time you have access to it, you reduce the burn by 2 or so from infusion specialization, and you can spend a move action to reduce the cost to 0 burn meaning the chain lighting has NO cost.


Mr Seifter (or anyone really),
I know the playtest is over and I missed it but I have a question... if you are willing.

I am about to give a Kineticist (playtest version of course)a spin and I am torn twixt Aetherkinesis/Pyro and Aerokinesis/Pyro, the main drag point is that TK seems to lag (damage wise) behind the other because it has no (currently available) composite blasts. Even figuring in Aetheric boost and constant use of Empower it seems to lag. I was thinking of adding in something like Burning Slag that follows the standard composite damage conventions and is a launched item set aflame that plows into enemies. I would feel better about bringing this up in our game if you were to tell me that that there is something similar already extant... or that you at least didn't consider the idea crap : )

Or Hell, I'm crap at math if anyone out there can show me how my Aether kinetic can keep up damage wise with any other variety of kinetic I would welcome the help : )

Let me finish by saying, even if you don't bother to reply to me I immensely enjoyed reading all your posts in the Kineticist forums. You were engaging and your interactions were pleasant and helpful, I know your name now and will look for your work in the future... you have made me a fan...

Designer

Yrtalien wrote:

Mr Seifter (or anyone really),

I know the playtest is over and I missed it but I have a question... if you are willing.

I am about to give a Kineticist (playtest version of course)a spin and I am torn twixt Aetherkinesis/Pyro and Aerokinesis/Pyro, the main drag point is that TK seems to lag (damage wise) behind the other because it has no (currently available) composite blasts. Even figuring in Aetheric boost and constant use of Empower it seems to lag. I was thinking of adding in something like Burning Slag that follows the standard composite damage conventions and is a launched item set aflame that plows into enemies. I would feel better about bringing this up in our game if you were to tell me that that there is something similar already extant... or that you at least didn't consider the idea crap : )

Or Hell, I'm crap at math if anyone out there can show me how my Aether kinetic can keep up damage wise with any other variety of kinetic I would welcome the help : )

Let me finish by saying, even if you don't bother to reply to me I immensely enjoyed reading all your posts in the Kineticist forums. You were engaging and your interactions were pleasant and helpful, I know your name now and will look for your work in the future... you have made me a fan...

The one big advantage that Aetheric boosted fire has over plasma is that, while it does a bit better than half of plasma's damage (it's basically half on the main kinetic blast stuff, but not halving boosters like elemental overflow, buff spells from your allies, and any potential pyro version of air's reach that increases damage a little bit), it does target touch AC, and plasma targets full AC. Plus, by the time you would be likely to consistently throw composites round by round, you will be only 2 levels away from a second expanded element, which can open up your options even further.

However, the best reason to combine aether and fire is probably for the blend of the two elements' infusions and utility talents, including the new ones in the book (which may or may not be the perfect fit for your character concept, since the new ones strengthen some of the themes of the originals).

Amusing in hindsight (but stressful at the time) fact: despite having the correct wordcount in design and development, after edit and layout, the kineticist was more than 400 lines over the expected length in InDesign due to a variety of factors. Somehow, I managed to get it copyfit without cutting even one of the new wild talents that I added after the playtest (a harrowing day that was though).


I searched around, and there's a question asked early on that was never quite answered- An Aether kineticist using Foe Throw- does that have the normal weight restrictions that telekinetic blast would? Or do you need to pick up telekinetic Haul first to throw anything bigger than a small dog?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It doesn't say it has the weight restrictions. In my mind if it did, it would say. I believe it has a size restriction instead correct?


Whos_That wrote:
It doesn't say it has the weight restrictions. In my mind if it did, it would say. I believe it has a size restriction instead correct?

Says nothing about size restrictions that I can see, the only wording that restricts target is that it "functions like telekinetic blast, but..." so presumably, it can only throw kineticist level x5 in weight.

Designer

To remove that ambiguity and tinker with things a little bit, the final version has a size restriction, but you can lift that and throw even the tarrasque by increasing the burn by a mere 1 point. Until the final version comes out, though, aether is still missing some of its sweet new utility talents, so perhaps in your games, you might consider allowing foe throw to throw a creature of any size for now?


Mark Seifter wrote:
To remove that ambiguity and tinker with things a little bit, the final version has a size restriction, but you can lift that and throw even the tarrasque by increasing the burn by a mere 1 point. Until the final version comes out, though, aether is still missing some of its sweet new utility talents, so perhaps in your games, you might consider allowing foe throw to throw a creature of any size for now?

cool, thanks!


Throwing the Tarrasque with your mind, that would cause what heck of a "mental hernia":)


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One combo I've discovered is that an Aerokineticist can take Air's Reach, Air Cushion, Extended Range, Wings of Air, Extreme Range, then Ride the Blast to obtain a burnless speed of 1025 feet per round at 10th level, 995 if done straight up. This is based on the assumption that a square has an easily hit AC of 5 as is the case with splash weaponry.

Example. A party of adventurers is walking along a path. A 10th level Aerokineticist in wait about 3-400 feet off the path, hiding in a bush, rides his Empowered air blast right into the party wizard for a surprise round. Round 1: Aerokineticist Kinetic Blades Wizard 2-3 times, leaving wizard likely dead (+14/+14/+9 with possible haste, average of 42 for the opening shot, 28 for subsequent shots). Party stomps Aerokineticist. He survives if they can't deal 60 damage in the round, which is a possibility depending on party comp and positioning. Round 2: Aerokineticist acrobatics to avoid AoOs (with a +17) and flies 15 feet up. Aerokineticist ridea rides the blast 960 feet in a random direction. Subsequent rounds:Aerokineticist heals with potions/wands/scrolls (UMD ranks make this a possibility) and repositions/flees at 116 mph.

Does Ride the Blast movement provoke AoOs?

Liberty's Edge

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Dragon78 wrote:
Throwing the Tarrasque with your mind, that would cause what heck of a "mental hernia":)

[Yoda lifts the X-Wing out of the Dagobah muck.]

LUKE: I... I don't believe it.
YODA: (sighs) That is why you fail.


If foe throw can end up throwing Kaiju at all, I am going to be amazingly pleased with putting an enemy telekineticist just to terrify them with his godzilla throwing powers.


Milo v3 wrote:
If foe throw can end up throwing Kaiju at all, I am going to be amazingly pleased with putting an enemy telekineticist just to terrify them with his godzilla throwing powers.

Considering how fall damage is not negated by DR, a TeleKineticist unable to directly damage a kaiju can instead use the extreme range wild talent to launch it 480 feet up for some delicious unblocked fall damage.


technarken wrote:


Considering how fall damage is not negated by DR, a TeleKineticist unable to directly damage a kaiju can instead use the extreme range wild talent to launch it 480 feet up for some delicious unblocked fall damage.

I was more thinking of launching it into a city, don't want the poor kaiju to die before it gets to battle the party.


I tried looking this up on the forums but the answers were contradictory. Does my kineticist have a Caster level... can he take crafting feats... Someone please help.
Thanks

Grand Lodge

Yrtalien wrote:

I tried looking this up on the forums but the answers were contradictory. Does my kineticist have a Caster level... can he take crafting feats... Someone please help.

Thanks

I remember being told the CL = 1/2 HD. You have to have a CL for the SLA to work.


Yrtalien wrote:

I tried looking this up on the forums but the answers were contradictory. Does my kineticist have a Caster level... can he take crafting feats... Someone please help.

Thanks

Yes and no. You have a caster level, but only for the purposes of determining how powerful some of your Wild Talents are (since a couple of them replicate spell effects), and I think for bypassing SR (though I would need to double-check on that), but not for crafting feats.

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