General Discussion: Kineticist


Rules Discussion

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I'm really worried about accuracy...

Blasts don't benefit from weapon enhancements, so right now, they have the same accuracy of a Rogue with no magic weapon (!) and their favored means of boosting to-hit is suffering damage that can't be healed... Yikes!

I'm starting to think this class should have some sort of ki/mana/spirit/whatever pool and save the HP burn for when that pool is depleted. I fear the burn damage will stack up too quickly, forcing the character to choose between not using her class feature or being easily knocked out in combat.

I hate to say it, because it's a really cool concept... But using HP as fuel is starting to seem like a bad idea. Even more so considering it can't be healed by any means (not sure if that restriction is necessary BTW... If the character is willing to use resources to use his class features more often, is that really a problem?)

So... These are my main concerns right now:

- Few skill points and extremely short list of class skills will make Kineticists very limited out of combat.
- The combination of (Medium BAB + no weapon enhancement + d8 + non-healable hp damage to use class features) will make it very fragile and limited in combat... Non-touch Blasts will be mostly worthless at mid/high levels.

Right now, Kineticists are looking like a considerably weaker version of Alchemists...

Paizo Employee Designer

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Mergy wrote:

Can Weapon Focus be taken with Kinetic Blast?

Additional question: Cyclone says all targets in a 20 ft. radius centered on you take damage. Does that include the kineticist?

Weapon Focus should be yes. Cyclone shouldn't hurt you. But allies? Yeah, they better clear out!

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Tirisfal wrote:
Just from the first glance at the doc, my wife and I really want to roll up water and fire kineticists, respectfully. Composite blasts are our favorite part because we tend to roll characters that work in tandem with each other, so I'm really hoping that they get expanded in the final book :)

Ooh! Teamwork feats for two Kineticists or a Kineticist and another caster to combine elemental attacks please!

Paizo Employee Designer

The Game Master wrote:

Mark, I have a question.

So, would it be possible to see some umbrakinetic based stuff? Like, dealing with drawing upon the shadows and such for a stealthier type of kineticist? I know they have stealth as a class skill, but there aren't really any abilities that play off of stealth besides their (AWESOME) super range capabilities. I think I'm gonna roll up a telekinetic assassin-like character to see how that plays out.
Not that this class needs stealth, per say. It would just be awesome to have a build that plays off of it. Maybe using negative energy?

It is indeed awesome. Like I said before about wood, I'm not sure I can wrangle the page count for anything as large as another element (in this book). But elsewhere? If there's pagecount, there are myriad cool possibilities out there!


Is there going to be a Kinetic Fist? If yes, would it be like the Sacred Fist archetype for the Warpriest? It could trade the proficiency with light armor and Defense wild talent to get a Con bonus to AC, and unarmed damage progression.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Tels wrote:
Tirisfal wrote:
Just from the first glance at the doc, my wife and I really want to roll up water and fire kineticists, respectfully. Composite blasts are our favorite part because we tend to roll characters that work in tandem with each other, so I'm really hoping that they get expanded in the final book :)
This makes me think that there should be a Teamwork Feat for Composite Blasts between two Kineticists. Kind of teaming together to combine their elements for a single more powerful blast.

...Awesome! Yes, I believe this will happen. Even if I have to tear the pages out of other feats myself

Actually, I don't have the ability to do that. But I like the idea


Important question for class testing Mark, do you think it better to test the class solo or in an adventuring party? I ask because while important to see the strength of the class on its own merits, it occurs to me that seeing how it interacts with a group is equally important. Curious before I go through the testing phase I have planned :)

Paizo Employee Designer

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phoenixmw wrote:
Important question for class testing Mark, do you think it better to test the class solo or in an adventuring party? I ask because while important to see the strength of the class on its own merits, it occurs to me that seeing how it interacts with a group is equally important. Curious before I go through the testing phase I have planned :)

An excellent question, phoenixmw!

I would rather have 1 playtest in a party fighting a full adventure than 50 playtests of the kineticist soloing things in an enclosed arena combat.


Alrighty, I think I will put him and a party through the Skinsaw Murders (YAY Rune Lords!) then. See what exactly happens to my poor little guy.

Paizo Employee Designer

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phoenixmw wrote:
Alrighty, I think I will put him and a party through the Skinsaw Murders (YAY Rune Lords!) then. See what exactly happens to my poor little guy.

Having run that one, certain kinds of kineticist would, I think, be fantastic.

Skinsaw:
For instance, a terra(or geo if you prefer) 4 who burns twice on DR can have DR 4/adamantine. Against ghoulish claw/claw/bite routines that hit for 1d6+1 each, it turns the average damage down from 4.5 per hit to 1 per hit; that's amazing!

EDIT: Oh yeah, and if the hit goes down to 0, no paralysis! And a strong Fort save + high Con just in case.


What I was thinking about was more Thematic, and maybe it will be archetypes or something for this approach.

People have mentioned wanting a multi-elementalist from earlier levels. I agree.

What about the other extreme - someone who wants only FIRE. There are some things there for some elements to have hybrid or powered up version of their own element, but the capstone really doesn't do much for someone wanting a single specific element.

It seems that as it is, you can be mostly 1 element, with multi element coming later than multi elementists want, or mostly one 1 element, loosing out on some of the later cool mechanical bits because you want to stay with 1 element - sort of working both sides, but not really doing one side or the other really well.

Dark Archive

Followup question for Cyclone: Does it have a clear direction to push (outwards) for the purposes of Pressurized Blast Infusion?


Mark Seifter wrote:
Tels wrote:
Tirisfal wrote:
Just from the first glance at the doc, my wife and I really want to roll up water and fire kineticists, respectfully. Composite blasts are our favorite part because we tend to roll characters that work in tandem with each other, so I'm really hoping that they get expanded in the final book :)
This makes me think that there should be a Teamwork Feat for Composite Blasts between two Kineticists. Kind of teaming together to combine their elements for a single more powerful blast.

...Awesome! Yes, I believe this will happen. Even if I have to tear the pages out of other feats myself

Actually, I don't have the ability to do that. But I like the idea

I don't wanna read to much into this, but that implies you will have very limited designing power over the feat section? My number one complaint for the ACG was how disjointed the book felt and how it felt the lead designers seemingly didn't pay attention to what the feat and archetype writers did.

Paizo Employee Designer

Mergy wrote:
Followup question for Cyclone: Does it have a clear direction to push (outwards) for the purposes of Pressurized Blast Infusion?

That is an excellent question. The cyclone spins around you, I can see some centrifugal action making sense. I'll likely clarify it, but for the playtest, playtest it out with the abilty to knock everybody back 5 feet and see how it goes!

Paizo Employee Designer

Insain Dragoon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Tels wrote:
Tirisfal wrote:
Just from the first glance at the doc, my wife and I really want to roll up water and fire kineticists, respectfully. Composite blasts are our favorite part because we tend to roll characters that work in tandem with each other, so I'm really hoping that they get expanded in the final book :)
This makes me think that there should be a Teamwork Feat for Composite Blasts between two Kineticists. Kind of teaming together to combine their elements for a single more powerful blast.

...Awesome! Yes, I believe this will happen. Even if I have to tear the pages out of other feats myself

Actually, I don't have the ability to do that. But I like the idea

I don't wanna read to much into this, but that implies you will have very limited designing power over the feat section? My number one complaint for the ACG was how disjointed the book felt and how it felt the lead designers seemingly didn't pay attention to what the feat and archetype writers did.

We're all going to be working together, and Jason has the final say, so I'm just saying I can't make any promises. I will definitely be involved in the feat section, and whether it's directly assigned to me or not, I will be reading every ability that affects my two classes in detail, even if I have to do that at home after work.


Mark Seifter wrote:
I would absolutely love to see level 7-10 playtests. But in those playtests especially, if you build the kineticist to not have access to both a touch blast and a full-AC blast, that's a design choice, and you could have chosen otherwise. At level 5 (soon to be 6), Eram is guaranteed to only have one or the other, and he's doing great at 5 (and mathematically will only improve at 6, since he actually just lost a BAB at 5 without gaining a feel the burn and is at his relative weakest) even compared to the melee brawler.

If the Kineticist is balanced around having access to touch AC attacks, then each element should really have a blast option that's able to target touch AC. As it is, your hydrokineticist will be fine even if he decides to double-specialize in water, but a double geokineticist has no touch-AC option. Aether is a little better off since a double Aether has access to Force Blast, but punishing Earth specialists by balancing the class around an option that they alone don't get access to is a little arbitrary and uncomfortable.


That's actually very reassuring to hear Mark. Honestly if I buy this book on release it's probably going to be due to the pleasant way you've been handling the playtesters.

Thank you for not just responding to that concern, but going beyond the call of duty in an effort to give us two enjoyable classes!


Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:

Guys, loving the new wild talent ideas. Excellent.

Also, @Deflect Arrows: "Unusually massive ranged weapons (such as boulders or ballista bolts) and ranged attacks generated by natural attacks or spell effects can't be deflected."

These are generated by spell effects, so they can't be deflected (ranged touch attacks can be deflected with Ray Shield by an 11th-level fighter with a shield who can take that feat, but the ones that hit against normal AC just can't be deflected period).

The mythic monster ability Block Attacks could still neuter a character with only one attack, and of course mirror image would be very efficient.

Have you considered a power (perhaps in aether) that allows a character to split their blast damage among several attacks? Spells like Fiery Shurikencould be be something of a template. After all once your can deal several d6 of damage, splitting them between a number of attacks can be more effective (lower chance of no hits, but DR and Resistances are a factor).

I think something like Burning Arc might be a better template if lessened damage is necessary. Half damage for each subsequent blast.

Actually, that might be better as a lower level use of Burn. A lesser version of Quicken or the double blast thing, Echoing Blast or some such.


kestral287 wrote:
[lots of maths and stuff]

How are you getting melee touch attacks with the Blast? Kinetic Blade is normal (non-touch) melee attacks.


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Extra Anchovies wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
[lots of maths and stuff]
How are you getting melee touch attacks with the Blast? Kinetic Blade is normal (non-touch) melee attacks.
Kinetic Blade wrote:
The weapon deals the same damage type that your kinetic blast deals, and it interacts with AC and spell resistance as normal for a blast of its type.

Unless I'm failing at reading, a Touch-Blast turned Kinetic Blade is a Touch-Blade, because it still interacts with AC as a Touch-Blast.

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:

I'm confused by the burn entry for wild talents. The burn ability says "Some of her wild talents offer her the option to accept burn in exchange for a greater effect", but all of the wild talents I've read so far list a burn amount, but don't describe a greater effect if you accept burn.

Is it intended that you have to accept burn to use the wild talent at all, and the description of the wild talent is the greater effect? Or is burn supposed to enhance the wild talent, similar to augmenting a mythic spell?

Consider the defense talents like flesh of stone.

About that - since Flesh of Stone states that you can accept one burn to increase the DR by 1 to a maximum of your kineticist level, does that mean you can apply burn multiple times to Flesh of Stone if you wanted to "max" it out?

Would you have to accept the burn all at once (i.e. you can only do it to the maximum burn you can accept in a single round), or could you "layer" it one burn at a time to reach your "max" defense with Flesh of Stone?

Example - Level 8 Geokineticist/Terrakineticist (you'll win a lot of my fellow geologists over with that name too, btw) can activate Flesh of Stone for DR 4/Adamantine (1 + 1 per 2 levels beyond 2). To "max" out at DR 8/Adamantine, it would take 2-4 rounds of activation (since at level 6 you could only accept 2 burn in a single round), right?

Thanks!

Paizo Employee Designer

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Insain Dragoon wrote:

That's actually very reassuring to hear Mark. Honestly if I buy this book on release it's probably going to be due to the pleasant way you've been handling the playtesters.

Thank you for not just responding to that concern, but going beyond the call of duty in an effort to give us two enjoyable classes!

It's very easy to make a small nudge and break the kineticist (as is evident by what happened when the word "blast" got removed in edit) with a variant ability or feat. For instance, the burn ability took me a long time to balance to avoid a lot of the concerns in this thread, which I had shared, and it lives on what I consider a razor cusp of working amazingly to the point that even something like "Signature Wild Talent: Now one wild talent costs 1 less burn, minimum 0" could make it teeter. I don't want to see something like that happen, so I'm going to be watching everything that affects my classes like a hawk. It may be beyond the call of duty, but my two classes working with all their abilities really matter to me (I recognize that, much like a parent with a child, eventually it will get out into the world and someone will publish something in a Player Companion or other line of products that I don't see that will do something I won't like, but in its debut book in which I have oversight? I'm going to be obsessing over making sure it's perfect).

As to you guys—I'm grateful to you for all these great ideas and for keeping it positive in expressing the changes you want. You can all rest assured, I'm making notes, and the kineticist is now going to be better than ever (seriously, teamwork feat to do a composite blast with two characters? That's awesome you guys!).

Paizo Employee Designer

Mike Bramnik wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:

I'm confused by the burn entry for wild talents. The burn ability says "Some of her wild talents offer her the option to accept burn in exchange for a greater effect", but all of the wild talents I've read so far list a burn amount, but don't describe a greater effect if you accept burn.

Is it intended that you have to accept burn to use the wild talent at all, and the description of the wild talent is the greater effect? Or is burn supposed to enhance the wild talent, similar to augmenting a mythic spell?

Consider the defense talents like flesh of stone.

About that - since Flesh of Stone states that you can accept one burn to increase the DR by 1 to a maximum of your kineticist level, does that mean you can apply burn multiple times to Flesh of Stone if you wanted to "max" it out?

Would you have to accept the burn all at once (i.e. you can only do it to the maximum burn you can accept in a single round), or could you "layer" it one burn at a time to reach your "max" defense with Flesh of Stone?

Example - Level 8 Geokineticist/Terrakineticist (you'll win a lot of my fellow geologists over with that name too, btw) can activate Flesh of Stone for DR 4/Adamantine (1 + 1 per 2 levels beyond 2). To "max" out at DR 8/Adamantine, it would take 2-4 rounds of activation (since at level 6 you could only accept 2 burn in a single round), right?

Thanks!

Yup, you got it Mike!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
The Game Master wrote:

Mark, I have a question.

So, would it be possible to see some umbrakinetic based stuff? Like, dealing with drawing upon the shadows and such for a stealthier type of kineticist? I know they have stealth as a class skill, but there aren't really any abilities that play off of stealth besides their (AWESOME) super range capabilities. I think I'm gonna roll up a telekinetic assassin-like character to see how that plays out.
Not that this class needs stealth, per say. It would just be awesome to have a build that plays off of it. Maybe using negative energy?

It is indeed awesome. Like I said before about wood, I'm not sure I can wrangle the page count for anything as large as another element (in this book). But elsewhere? If there's pagecount, there are myriad cool possibilities out there!

Since SLAs don't require verbal components the kineticist is already one of the best "stealth" casters without any help. Take a trait for stealth and play into it more and you get the thing of horror stories.

"WHY IS EVERYTHING MOVING, THIS PLACE IS SCARY AND I WANT TO LEAVE"


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1 Nonlethal / Level per Burn
Lv 1 - 1 Burn/Round
Lv 6 - 2 Burn/Round
Lv 9 - 3 Burn/Round
Lv 12 - 4 Burn/Round
Lv 15 - 5 Burn/Round
Lv 18 - 6 Burn/Round

Total Burn = Con Mod + 3

I've decided to give a dedicated melee build a try just to see how this works out. It looks like damage recistances are the biggest obstacle this buld would face, so I'll be going with a "Metal" build down the road to combat this. I present you with:

Simon the Diggy Diggy Geokinetic

Race: Dwarf
Str: 10 Dex: 16 Con: 18 Int: 12 Wis: 14 Cha: 5 (20 Point Buy)
Favored Clas Bonus: HP
Skill Per Level: 3

Element: Earth (Earth Blast)

Feats:
1 - Weapon Finesse
3 - Arcane Strike
5 - Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast)

Talents / Class Features:
1 - Kinetic Blade
2 - Extended Range
4 - Pushing Infusion
5 - Form (-1)

Level 1:
I'm a bit slow on the ground, but that's ok as I'm very much a Switch Hitter. I pelt targets with rocks goading them to attack me. When they do I stand my ground, using my move action to gather energy for a 0 Burn Kinetic Blade. This is actually a Kinetic Multitool, giving me a Pick, Hammer or Axe as needed. A very useful ability for all those tunnels I dig. I'm not particularly accurate though.

HP: 13
AC: 17 (Chain Shirt)
Attack: (+3) 1d6+5, Melee/Ranged, P/B/S

Level 3:
This is a really interesting level as Flesh of Stone & Feel the Burn both come online. Taking 1 point of Burn for DR 2 / Adamantine, +1 Attack, +1 Damage for the entire day is a very nice bonus. I thought hard about Arcane Strike or Piranha Strike but decided I can't afford the lost attack bonus right now. Picking up Extended Range at level 2 really lets me snipe though, which is a huge plus.

HP: 33 (30 Effective)
AC: 17
DR: 2 / Adamantite
Attack: (+6) 2d6+8, Melee/Ranged, P/B/S, Arcane

Level 5:
Now we're doing a little better. I can do an Extended Range, Pushing ranged attack for 0 Burn provided I stand still. If I engage at melee I can use Kinetic Blade at 0 Burn naturally, letting me move and attack. My AC isn't increasing by much yet, but I have some nice DR for this level at a cost of 1 Burn. Combat-wise I'm in pretty good shape.

HP: 53 (48 Effective)
AC: 18 (+1 Chain Shirt)
DR: 3 / Adamantite
Attack: (+8) 3d6+10, Melee/Ranged, P/B/S, Arcane

So for the first 5 levels I'm basiclly playing a switch-hitting Fighter or Ranger. I benefit from only having to worry about 2 Attribute Scores and could min-max to a greater extent if I wwant to. I am finding the lack of utility options kind of dull though. This will get a bit better as I level, and infact I'm planning on grabbing Move Earth at level 6 to keep the Minecraft theme going on. With that ability and the right Craft skill I don't see why I couldn't be building a really nice fortress for my party in fact.

Feedback wise, I really want 4 skills per level baseline. I'm also finding the list of Talents to choose during the first few levels to be a bit dull. I'd like to see 1-2 utility options per element and a couple of universal talents to choose from. I think there's plenty of 0th or 1st level spells we could mine for basic options.

I have a rules question to ask, as it'll affect all Kinetic Blade builds. Do feats / abilties / ect that affect Kinetic Blast transfer to Kinetic Blade? For example, would I need to pick up Weapon Focus: Kinetic Blast or Weapon Focus: Kinetic Blade at level 5 with this build?

Btw, I'm going to plan out some party based test scenarios this weekend with Simon here. I'm thinking a party consiting of an Investigator, an Oradin and a Bard might be fun to play with.


Tels wrote:
Tirisfal wrote:
Just from the first glance at the doc, my wife and I really want to roll up water and fire kineticists, respectfully. Composite blasts are our favorite part because we tend to roll characters that work in tandem with each other, so I'm really hoping that they get expanded in the final book :)
This makes me think that there should be a Teamwork Feat for Composite Blasts between two Kineticists. Kind of teaming together to combine their elements for a single more powerful blast.

+1


With a name like Simon and an Earth theme I think you're obligated to create drills as much as possible.

That said, I like the build. Arcane/Riving Strike is going to wind up really nice for this class I think.


kestral287 wrote:

With a name like Simon and an Earth theme I think you're obligated to create drills as much as possible.

That said, I like the build. Arcane/Riving Strike is going to wind up really nice for this class I think.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of Minecraft / Yoggscast. The Move Earth talent letting you move literal cubes of the world around kinda inspired the character.

I mean, who the hell do you think I am?

And as a final edit I leave you with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFL7sn4dy-4


So I was looking at the Kinetist in general and Burn specifically, and I was wondering how burn would interact with damage reduction, specifically an invulnerable rager's damage reduction which gives non-lethal DR.

Scarab Sages

I am reading this correctly that a 6th level geokinetecist with extended range and Impale has a 120' line attack for potentially 1 point of burn? (Not that I think you'll ever hit more than 2-3 opponents.)


rsgeneralnerd wrote:
So I was looking at the Kinetist in general and Burn specifically, and I was wondering how burn would interact with damage reduction, specifically an invulnerable rager's damage reduction which gives non-lethal DR.

As so:

"A kineticist incapable of suffering nonlethal damage cannot accept burn"

Paizo Employee Designer

It doesn't affect it any more than it would nonlethal damage from hunger or thirst.


So... A little out there I know, but if I'm able to use opportune perry and riposte unarmed (say from the kata master archetype)can I use it against an AoO while gather energy to reduce burn? (I may be working on a Kinetic blade specialist, and would rather not have to depend on Infusion Specialization)

Paizo Employee Designer

Artanthos wrote:
I am reading this correctly that a 6th level geokinetecist with extended range and Impale has a 120' line attack for potentially 1 point of burn? (Not that I think you'll ever hit more than 2-3 opponents.)

Those are both form infusions.


Telekinetic blast states that "You throw whatever unattended object that happens to be nearby".

1) Does this mean I can throw any object within the range of the blast to any point within the range of the blast? In other words, any object within 30 ft of me to any target within 30 ft of me.

2) If so, does that mean I can change the point of origin of the attack, potentially negating cover?

3) If not, what is the intent of "nearby objects"? Must it be in my square or in an adjacent square?

Scarab Sages

Javaed wrote:
rsgeneralnerd wrote:
So I was looking at the Kinetist in general and Burn specifically, and I was wondering how burn would interact with damage reduction, specifically an invulnerable rager's damage reduction which gives non-lethal DR.

As so:

"A kineticist incapable of suffering nonlethal damage cannot accept burn"

A person with DR is still capable of suffering damage, they just take less.

That said: Mark has clarified DR is not intended to reduce burn. I just hope RAW is adjusted to reflect intent.

Scarab Sages

Mark Seifter wrote:
Artanthos wrote:
I am reading this correctly that a 6th level geokinetecist with extended range and Impale has a 120' line attack for potentially 1 point of burn? (Not that I think you'll ever hit more than 2-3 opponents.)
Those are both form infusions.

So they are. I'll stick with magnetic infusion.


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Cardz5000 wrote:
So... A little out there I know, but if I'm able to use opportune perry and riposte unarmed (say from the kata master archetype)can I use it against an AoO while gather energy to reduce burn? (I may be working on a Kinetic blade specialist, and would rather not have to depend on Infusion Specialization)

Why would you not want to depend on Infusion Specialization? You get it free, six times.

Artanthos wrote:
I am reading this correctly that a 6th level geokinetecist with extended range and Impale has a 120' line attack for potentially 1 point of burn? (Not that I think you'll ever hit more than 2-3 opponents.)

Only one Form and one Substance infusion on each blast. Extended Range and Impale are both Forms, sadly.

My thought was cheesier, I want a 120' range whip.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Artanthos wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Artanthos wrote:
I am reading this correctly that a 6th level geokinetecist with extended range and Impale has a 120' line attack for potentially 1 point of burn? (Not that I think you'll ever hit more than 2-3 opponents.)
Those are both form infusions.
So they are. I'll stick with magnetic infusion.

I have had dreams of a high-level kineticist shooting (or quickening) a magnetic infusion electric blast to take advantage of touch AC and use the to-hit boost as a prelude to a follow-up metal blast. Will you be the one to make those dreams a reality?

Scarab Sages

kestral287 wrote:
Cardz5000 wrote:
So... A little out there I know, but if I'm able to use opportune perry and riposte unarmed (say from the kata master archetype)can I use it against an AoO while gather energy to reduce burn? (I may be working on a Kinetic blade specialist, and would rather not have to depend on Infusion Specialization)
Why would you not want to depend on Infusion Specialization? You get it free, six times.

Feel the Burn.

Scarab Sages

Mark Seifter wrote:
Artanthos wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Artanthos wrote:
I am reading this correctly that a 6th level geokinetecist with extended range and Impale has a 120' line attack for potentially 1 point of burn? (Not that I think you'll ever hit more than 2-3 opponents.)
Those are both form infusions.
So they are. I'll stick with magnetic infusion.
I have had dreams of a high-level kineticist shooting (or quickening) a magnetic infusion electric blast to take advantage of touch AC and use the to-hit boost as a prelude to a follow-up metal blast. Will you be the one to make those dreams a reality?

Not during playtest, but one day.

Trying to get my gnome into a playtest.


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I would love the class to gain resistance against there focus. It would be around level 2-3 gain energy resistance 5 wich increases to 10 at lv 5-6, 20 at lv 9-10 and 30 at lv 13-14. Though Aether would be different maybe resistance to force effects or an ac bonus instead.


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If Fire were to get an option for a physical damage blast, for example, through concussive blasts, could I name the character Sparky Sparky Boom Man?


Mark, while you're here, how does Weapon Focus (and similar feats) work with Kinetic Blade?

Do I have to pick WF: Kinetic Blade, WF: Kinetic Blast or WF: Kinetic Whip separately? Or could I just grab WF: Kinetic Blast and the bonus transfers over to the blade attack?

Shadow Lodge

Mark Seifter wrote:
I have had dreams of a high-level kineticist shooting (or quickening) a magnetic infusion electric blast to take advantage of touch AC and use the to-hit boost as a prelude to a follow-up metal blast. Will you be the one to make those dreams a reality?

Great, now my players aren't going to be surprised when that happens...


Artanthos wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
Cardz5000 wrote:
So... A little out there I know, but if I'm able to use opportune perry and riposte unarmed (say from the kata master archetype)can I use it against an AoO while gather energy to reduce burn? (I may be working on a Kinetic blade specialist, and would rather not have to depend on Infusion Specialization)
Why would you not want to depend on Infusion Specialization? You get it free, six times.
Feel the Burn.

At the same time you get your first Infusion Specialization, you pick up the ability to Empower the blast for one Burn, and you can add a Substance effect to increase your Burn if you need to.

Metakinesis effects are going to wind up as my go-to trigger for building Burn up, I think.


Okay, correct me if I'm wrong.
At level 19, if I put Infusion Specialization on Extreme Range twice, then decided to use Quicken Spell-Like Ability for two burn, and then use Ride the Blast on all of my blast (for a total of 4 blasts with a range of 480 a piece), I can essentially move 1920 feet.
Wow! And that is in 6(ish) seconds.
For the attacks, I'm saying you would be "vaulting", or striking objects to ride the blast from point to point. On a regular basis though, you would "vault" 1440 feet.
Or am I missing something?

Dark Archive

Don't forget also enhancing your defensive abilities for burn.


kestral287 wrote:
Cardz5000 wrote:
So... A little out there I know, but if I'm able to use opportune perry and riposte unarmed (say from the kata master archetype)can I use it against an AoO while gather energy to reduce burn? (I may be working on a Kinetic blade specialist, and would rather not have to depend on Infusion Specialization)
Why would you not want to depend on Infusion Specialization? You get it free, six times.

mainly having to wait until level 5


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I think an umbrakineticist might do better as an archetype, though it would definitely be a cool concept, partially because mixing in new base elements like shadow will exponentially increase the number of composite elements, partially because it feels different tapping into the plane of shadow than the elemental planes, partially because it just feels weird to have shadow compositing with others. Maybe making a twisted emulation of...but yeah. I think it would be really cool as an archetype.

Was looking through the wild talents, and I think earth especially needs some unique abilities it can snag from 1st level. Beyond its defense ability, everything it gets, aether and (effectively) water get, while also getting more toys. Extended Range (universal), Kinetic Blade (universal), Kinetic Cover (aether, earth, and water), Kinetic Fist (universal), and Pushing Infusion (aether and earth) which is identical to Pressurize Blast Infusion (air and water). And chalk me up for the crowd that finds splitting the two up a bit redundant. Meanwhile, aether snags everything earth has and throws on Kinetic Healer (which it shares with water), Light Touch, and Telekinetic Finesse, and water gets Icewalker, Kinetic Healer, and the versatile Slick to help distinguish themselves.

Most of the errors I noticed are minor (like flame shield being listed as air element), but one I'm confused about; both air and water list cloud as being one of their Wild Talents, but cloud itself only lists air as an appropriate element. Which is correct?

Some other stuff I'd like to see wild talents for:

Air: Dealing with wind other than just spinning it around you; while wind manipulator and weather master are amazing, I'd like something along the lines of gust of wind (use burn to increase the size of things affected?), air geyser, or maybe gusting sphere...there's pressurized blast infusion, torrent, and cyclone, admittedly, but I'd like the option to use wind without always annihilating your target (maybe using it to propel a small boat, or try to knock over someone you're not trying to kill). A whispering wind option would not go amiss either, being able to communicate like that as an aerokineticist would be quite flavorful. I'd also like something like a powerful downdraft that can knock down flying creatures and possibly force creatures on the ground prone, Reflex to negate probably.

Earth: I'd like more abilities where you alter the terrain to hinder your enemies. Things like binding earth, where the ground clutches at them, or making a pit ala the create pit spell, except that it's not extradimensional, so it can't be used everywhere, or creating spikes like spike stones. For high levels, I agree that earthquake would be awesome, and something like move earth would also be amazing, even if required you to spend a fair bit of burn to pull off. Landscaping just seems like something awesome a high level geokinetic should be able to pull off. Repel metal and stone would also be a very cool high level ability, though it would obviously only be stone unless you had metal as a composite blast. I believe I also said earlier I'd like something like shape stone, possibly as an evolution of move earth to allow for more detailed work.

Fire: I think it would be nice if it was mixed up a bit, the main elements to fire being heat, light, and byproducts like smoke, so something that perhaps acts like heat metal or could potentially give them heatstroke, or a brief flare of bright flame with the intent of dazzling or even temporarily blinding someone (perhaps directly in front of their eyes?), or creating smoke like a smokestick to block their vision could all be some interesting side abilities to give pyrokinetics, letting them round things out and at least have some abilities when they run into something that isn't immune to fire. And as I also said earlier, a high level ability that lets you teleport between fires ala tree stride would be very neat.

Water: Water is already pretty versatile, though I think I would like something specifically allowing you to freeze over water, perhaps slowly, like the winter witch ability, and also to shape ice, allowing you to create things, or possibly even perform things like stone spikes or such, except with ice, would be nice. You have some abilities related to ice, but sometimes it might be nice to just freeze over the pond. Creating banks of fog ala fog cloud could be handy too. I'd also like a way to trap someone in a ball of water similarly to aqueous orb, which would be cool. Though if you want to be nasty, you could have an effect like suffocation by enveloping someone's head in a small sphere of water...

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