Are any of these archetypes (especially the monk) stack able with kineticist in terms of multi class? I currently have an air kineticist dipping in monk for 2 lvls. That may change depending on this.
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Will this have any composite blasts, my kingdom for an aether composite blast that doesn't suck. THIS. I wholeheartedly second this motion. (Alternatively, take the ones that exist now and reduce the cost to 1 burn rather than 2.)
How about a bard who can turn his instraments electric? It is high time for a rock-n-roll metal bard.
>>hurricane-punching windstep master monk
Is this a dream? Can such a beautiful thing actually exist?
I'm pretty sure it's explained by the entirety of part B of the DSM-5 in "Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities..." My girlfriend is a psychology major. I'm starting to realize why we're so good together. Lol.A double digit percentage of this forum is either somewhere on the autistic scale and/or so heavily emotionally invested into the topic at hand that they don't process sarcasm and irony at all.As someone else with aspurger's, who is also extremely sarcastic, I can tell you it is quite possible for someone on the autism spectrum to comprehend sarcasm. It is a spectrum, which does not lend itself easily to generalizations and stereotyping. Doesn't need to be added... cus it already is :). I have it and I can tell you exactly why it would attract the autistic. you have a highly predictable fantasy world filled with numbers and the ability to do both hand/eye coordination stuff as well as (more importantly) diplomacy stuff. People with Aspergers like predictability as well as complicated things that require you to immerse yourself. We also have, I wouldn't say a hatred, but a palpable...dislike for reality with all it's unpredictability concerning sarcasm, we process things logically as opposed to instinctively. This means that we take in factual info first. It's converted to sarcasm after based on LEARNING what signals sarcasm. this is more difficult in text form obviously, but not too much more difficult as it is hard face to face as it is. it would be interesting to see an autistic trait (-2 diplomacy and sense motive, +2 to two knowledge skills) or better yet..... a race!
gullible: -2 sense motive lovable bumbler: -2 diplomacy vs creatures unknown. +2 vs creatures known over a period of time obsession: always trained in one skill of choice eye avoidance: +2 vs gaze attacks and effects Unshakable logic: +2 vs illusions, charms and compulsions Unbreakable rules: +2 AC, CMD and saves vs Chaotic creatures, spells, and effects Pain null: +2 vs pain effects delicate harmony: -2 vs sonic and audio effects
Found a spell that deals with paper called Parchment Swarm that can go with the new feat in psychic anthology: ------------ reflex halves
Using normal parchment, the spell deals 1d6 points of magical slashing damage per caster level (maximum 15d6). If you use a magic scroll as the material component, choose one of the spells stored in the scroll. If the spell is 1st level, you can choose to apply the effect of that spell to the parchment swarm’s target on a failed Reflex save (if the spell on the scroll has its own saving throw, the target then attempts that save as normal). If the spell on the scroll is at least 2nd level, you can choose to instead change parchment swarm to affect a 20-foot-radius spread instead of a single target.
the lowest another class can cast this is as a lvl 4 spell, so it should be lvl 3 and cost 1 burn. you can grant the 20 ft radius option for an additional point of burn. if anyone finds paper based spells to add to the list for the Kinetic invocation feat, go ahead and post it. also, if paper abilities appear in other media, post that too for inspiration. ones I have thought of: Read or die
I know about N.Jolly's work. I was simply mentionning other elements yet to be presented in an official Parhfinder source. Actualy, mark mentioned earlier in the thread that we should post stuff like this in the suggestions and homebrew section of the forums as stuff in these threads don't get repeated attention (might i just say however I am all for light and a space/time kineticist is a cool option if you can actually implement it.)
My impressions on the kineticist section (not complete, but a couple of things that get my attention The good------------------- -While a little taxy, we now have a way to get whirlwind attack without delving into the god-awful feat chain.... WHICH IS FRIKIN BEUTIFUL! Only downside to this is that it takes up two infusion slots. One issue I have with kineticict is the extremely limited number of ability slots, especially when there are taxes involved. in the end however, you now have the ability to become a FLOATY, HUGE SIZED BLIMP OF ETERNAL DEATH AND DESTRUCTION -Malstrom is really cool, though only useful for sea ship based campaigns. -We finally have positive blasts which, thematically, is cool. -detonation:YOU ARE THE FIREBALL! this effectively grants you the full whip hurricane whirlwind stuff without the taxes...AT LEVEL 8!, though you have to be careful about not hitting your friends... -aether archetect is amazing and makes for a very nice capstone if given the time to use it. if you can prepare for a fight, all kinds of shinanigans can ensue from imprisoning a baddie until they suffocate, to creating a miniature multi layered wall of force fortress (a forcetress, lol) -Kinetic invocation is good, thought the feat tax makes me a bit sad. -tree step is cool. Basicly at will teleport when in a forest. getting it for free at the beggining of the day makes it amazing... at level 14 to boot! The kinetic knight is ALMOST perfect! By granting melee talents for free, you free up space for the versatility the kineticist so desperatly needs. Gaining them early also means that the Kineticict "turns on" earlier than level 10 (being regulated to one trick pony in early levels and three tricktrick is not much fun). However..... The Bad------------------------- -Kinetic knight loses the ability to ranged blast as well as access to form infusions (except blade and whip related ones), so now you have extra infusion slots to fill...and nothing to fill them with. only substance infusions work, and even then, only ones that don't rely on a specific, non-blade infusion. This can only be resolved by a future feat to specifically grant ranged blasts to the knight (maybe for burn the same way blade and whip cost for normal kineticists. Again, this wouldn't be so bad if it only locked you out of your normal ranged blast and still allowed infusions. I suspect that as more material comes out, this will become the go-to archetype. -positive energy ONLY works on undead (or or similar negative energy based beings). That makes it situational. This means you should NEVER take it as your first blast as it would regulate positive energy based wood to healer ONLY until you expand. -foxfire and the infusion can be put out easily, though it takes up an opponents turn. The UGLY----------------------------- -telekinetic boomerang WOULD be good if it didn't require a standard action to preform the return hit. a swift would have made this great. As it stands, it only serves a purpose when you nova at high levels. Throw on that it doesn't seem to work with composites and this becomes only marginally useful. -senaptic infusion: mind effecting means that no undead or abberations are effected. It's also so easy to remove...just a move action. throw on that it's lvl 3 when you could be taking magnetic rather than lvl 2 (air needs decent substance lvl 2's) and it's just not worth it. -body of air: you can already fly. only good for a baddie npc who tries to escape -living capacitor could have been good, but it requires you to take electric damage. why would you get into melee range to deliver a weaker version of what you could normally just shoot people with? it would have been better if it provided electricity resistance or if you could charge up your blast. on the plus side, it is lvl 2 which means you can take it and replace it later when you expand..... -Focused blast: oh, cool! a way to increase my hit and -TWO BURN PER +1! HOW? WHY? not only does this use up your form infusion, but it is horrifically expensive. if it didn't take away form infusion and cost a little less it would be great. As it stands, you can do better things with your burn. it only provides a +1 at lvl 5 and only if you gather. that gather is better spent on empower, which you get at that level. at lvl 8 you get it free and can empower, but at THAT level you get blade and must chose between a ranged +1, or a whole extra attack. it would be fine if it was considered a special utility, but as a form it just asks to be your main ability for way too much cost vs benefit. --------------------- There are a few amazing things here, some meh, and a bit of awful. sadly, there are NO new composites except the ones related to positive energy and wood. nothing to fix aethers composite problem either, but the whirlwind, invocation, and knight options make up for it. A solid 6/10 for the kineticist.
I like the concept of thrill, however I don't like the "puts stress" clause. This should basically be rage except with a different emotion. I view it more as a sort of boundless joy rather than something painful or stressful. Also, if it apes rage, it should use unchained rage if possible. Maybe throw in some immunity to fear as well while thrilled. He should get weapon finesse as a bonus at level 1 similar to the unchained rouge. I also agree that you should not be constrained to a single weapon. If you want them to be focused, your plan of a daily morning training ritual would be best. I DO think a hybrid of the barb and rouge is an amazing concept. This feels like the little brother of the swashbuckler. However, unlike the swashbuckler who's thrill is very public and likes to be seen, the thrill of battle for the Myrmidon is more personal. He doesn't seek to embarrass and quip with opponents so much as he seeks a worthy opponent. He would be fine with a one on one duel to the death and completely enjoy it where a swashbuckler would prefer pull down his enemies pants in public. ever watch the anime Bleach? Kenpachi strikes me as what this class should represent.
While the main inspiration is Read or Die, there are plenty of other places I am drawing from. paper mario would be more of one if he used paper rather than was made of it, however that gives me potential ideas for a puppet based archetype. imagine controlling a puppet from a distance summoner style that can not only slip into fortresses, but can flatten itself against the wall and then go and assassinate the enemy while you control it from outside. Not an archtype I'm going to pursue for now, but the idea is there. another inspiration is more recent: kubo and the two strings. from there we get the idea of large constructs like the leaf boat in the movie. it also inspires this new talent: NEW! lvl 5
lvl 7 greater puppet swarm: (Form infusion: 5 burn)(prerequisite: paper swarm infusion) this ability works like your paper swarm infusion except it lasts a number of minutes equal to your Con mod instead of rounds or until it is expended. The swarm is not expended when it hits it's target. Instead, it does one dice less damage every time it hits. creating additional greater swarms costs two extra burn instead of one. looks like you can use a good old fashion swarm of paper BEEEEEEEEEES! AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! For extra hilarity, tack on a substance infusion
on the defense talent, I considered making it to where you gain both a nat armor and a shield bonus that BOTH max out at +5 (therfore being slightly more powerful than flesh of wood) with the water and fire weakness thrown in for balence and flavor. Then I saw how shroud of water is set up and figured it was like that for a reason. here is an alternative: Paper skin: you coat your skin in form fitting paper and can utilize paper as a shield. you gain a +2 natural armor bonus that stacks with other sources of natural armor and a +2 shield bonus. you may choose to accept a point of burn to increase one of these bonuses by 1. Every three levels beyond 2nd you may accept an additional point of burn to increase this bonus by one with neither bonus ever exceeding +5 (maximum +5 shield, +5 natural armor). These bonuses are halved vs fire and liquid attacks and effects.
concerning basic basic paperkinesis, the ability can be slightly weakened by putting the weapon and armor ability into Paper finesse instead. the limiting factor is meant to be the cubic feat you can construct. the idea is that you can create anything from simple tools to basic equipment at low levels and at higher levels when basic equipment is considered cheap, you can create useful things like paper boats or a pillar to hold up a crumbling building. paper as two specialties: craft things and field control. money limits are a good idea, but I'm not sure how to deal with later levels. maybe finesse can increase the value (10 GP/lvl initialy, 100GP with finesse?)
letter is meant to be a stealthy thing. If you are doing it someplace where the enemy can respond with a wind wall then you're doing it wrong. that being said, I didn't consider that there may be natural situations that interfere over the shorter distance (such as sneaking around outside during a storm) so tacking on the wind sentence is probably important.
Modified
Paper evasion is meant to imply the paper skin talent without requiring it. using constructed paper armor or suit work just as well. something that can be added is that you can grant this ability to any allies for one burn as an immidiate action if they are covered in paper too. however, that may constitute making it a level 2
for paper finesse, it is low level because it fits with papers specialties. Paper kineticicts are meant to be a bit roguish and adaptable. having it at level 1 is also important if we tack the other half of the basic talent on as well due to paper armor and weapons only being useful early on when your poor and powerless.
mehaps glue can be turned into a substance infusion that has a 0 cost utility side function that works for both you and (for burn) allies. entangling infusion renders it redundant though. might be good for level 1 though if you switch it later Modified
modified
I agree here. jagged flesh is probably 3 burn because the stone is erupting from your skin. sharp skin is decidedly less painful so 1 burn is probably better. besides, it wouldn't be obvious and the theme here is to expect the unexpected with paper users.
wasn't sure about how good adimantium was. I will defer to you guys on this and make this lvl 4
laminate is just a name. you don't actually cover your paper in laminant, you just make it more durable. I just can't think of a more setting appropriate name for now.
changing paper sight to a substance infusion that cost 2 burn (the spy version cost 3). presumably, one can choose to shoot a blast that does 0 damage right? Also, the target must not be aware of the doll stuck to them or they can easily destroy it. The spying version is also animated so add that the DC is 10 higher for they spying version
paper alarm is meant to be set up when you sleep for the night, however your suggestion does give me an idea for a new talent!: NEW! lvl 4
muffle makes sonic and audio effects subject to a dispel check to dispell the HARMFUL effects of such spells in a LIMITED area. if the whole room is hit with a sonic attack, only creatures standing right next to large quantities of paper (such as someone who is entangled or next to you with the paper skin ability active are protected. this does not entirely negate the attack, only the harmful effects you can still hear a muffled sonic attack. you can still hear ghost sounds. they just sound much weaker
Sponge makes targets take an additional round of bleed damage in addition to the bleed damage they would have taken on their turn, they also take it on yours. If the infusion is part of a lingering form infusion, the effect hits every round on your turn. The liquid weakens it so every time it successfully damages the target, the normal duration is decreased by 1 round. Modified
Smother (and sponge) are part of a concept I have going. much like an oracle's curse eventually becomes a boon, the weaknesses of paper eventually become advantages (as noted by cyrad). one of papers defining features is to "expect the unexpected" and "surprise versatility". Know how a fire gets smothered if you pack on too many pine needles, leaves and...paper? That's the idea here. mechanically fire subtype works good, but thematically, this shouldn't work against fire dragons I think, unless fire dragons need a good supply of oxygen to their scales. Do they? I'm not sure how creatures like that actually work.
engulfing paper was meant to ape engulfing winds. However, it is less effective than wind vs projectiles and more against melee. 20% is a good balance. change the text thusly: Modified lvl 4
In what way should paper puppets be modified? should I add construction points? constructs are one of papers specialties so I feel like they should get it early and that it should be better than aethers version.
I'm quite aware of the form vs substance problem where tape and entangling are concerned. on one hand, forms are meant to change the number of targets while substance tacks on additional effects. the problem is that entangling and tape both add effects rather than targets. I am at a loss as to what to make form and what to make substance with these three. I am considering just making tape be a form and the entangling and cucoon ones be substance. would be better anyway because multiple targets with smother would be a tad overpowered now that I think about it while entangling and pinning multiple targets would be more acceptable. modified
Paper wings comes online at the same time that greater flame jet and it's equivalents do. putting it too much earlier may encroach on airs nitch. however, paper air and wood seem to share a bit of a relationship, so we can at least make it lvl 4. the burn stays put however. all day flight is air's baby. paper has to pay for that privilege. modified
I was under the impression that pinned was an upgraded grapple and that grapple was an upgraded entangled. entangling infusion induces the entangled condition. hitting again seems to make them grappled. cocoon upgrades this to pinned.
for paper suit, I envisioned you basically driving a mecha made of paper. the burn is so high because the suit takes all the damage. you are basicly putting your burn HP into a power suit with your defense talent burn as a bonus. for example, a lvl 20 would suit would gain 100 HP. if you already put burn into paper skin, say 2 burn, the suit gains 140 HP instead. It is meant to be a big scary high level transformation. it was late when I wrote it so here are a few modifications: Modified
remember that you have infusion specialization. At level 17, paper coffin should be free unless you combine it with other nasty things. if anything, it should almost cost more due to gather power. if i made it utility, the price would go WAY down.
kinetic apocalypse wouldn't take 3 burn. it would take 6 minimum, 3 to start and 3 to end (though gather could reduce it initially). this assumes you made the will save to stop. also remember that it hits everything except for you indiscriminately... including your friends. if you plan on unleashing this, you plan to be solo when you do so and HOPE it's enough to kill the big bad. This is a thematic capstone story option more than anything a normal player might actually use.
concerning composites, I am of the opinion that they are BOOOOORIIIING. why just double damage when you can make them thematic? That's why I made a point of tacking on a bit of mechanical flavor. thanks for the feedback guys, also here is yet another new talent: lvl 4 talent
Has anyone ever seen the anime Read or Die: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEgiKVHtKEA How about a kineticict in lines with said concept? It could work as an archetype or as a bunch of wood talents, but I thin it would work best as it's own category. here is my concept as it currently stands PAPER KINETICICT A paper kineticict adds knowledge(engineering) and Disable device to class skills. --------------------------
basic blast: Paper blast- Physical. deals bludgeoning, piercing or slashing
basic paperkinesis- you can make simple tools and constructs out of paper. such as knives, bags, clothing, rope ladders, small boats, tents, simple weapons and light armor etc. A paper Kineticict is automatically proficient with paper weapons and armor. These constructs bend to your will and can be as hard as wood or as soft and comfortable as cloth. The paper kineticict must expend swift actions to maintain a single construct.
These constructs and all other paper based Wild talents suffer double damage vs fire and water effects. any paper that becomes wet becomes completely saturated becomes simple soggy paper. finally, you can create natural paper by using leaves, sawdust and moisture. You can create up to 10x your kineticict level sheets of paper in one hour. this amount triples if you have water as a second element. --------------------------------------
lvl 1 talents: paper plane: (utility: 0 burn) you can use paper to slow a fall as feather fall by making a parachute. you can also use paper to create stairs to emulate the cloud step spell, though you must either end your turn on the ground or use this talent again or fall. Finally, if you are at least 20ft off of the ground, you can choose to accept 1 point of burn to create a paper airplane. The plane descends at a rate of 5 feet per round and must move at least 10 feet with poor maneuverability. If you have the Air cushion wild talent, you can maintain your height indefinitely and gain maneuverability (good) letter: (Utility: 0 burn) you can write on paper and then send it to an area within 240 feet Paper finesse: as telekinetic finesse, except using paper. In addition, you can use your paper to unlock non magical doors and locks. Glue: (Utility: 0 burn) you use paper wrapped to you or a targets feet to hold your ground. this functions as the wild talent Roots except it works on stone and flat surfaces but does not work on gravely or dirty surfaces such as plain dirt. Paper evasion: (Utility: 1 burn) as aerial evasion except you must have paper on a significant portion of your body. paper bandage:(utility: 0 burn) you can automatically stabilize creatures that are bleeding out with a paper bandage. Sharp Skin : (Utility: 3 burn) (prerequisite: Paper skin defense talent) this functions as jagged flesh except it deals slashing or piercing damage and only works so long as you have a significant amount of paper covering your body. Pushing | Bowling | Slick | Kinetic Cover lvl 2 talents: Greater letter: (Utility: 1 burn) you can send a written letter to a preset location up to 1 mile per kineticist level. the letter travels at 1d10 miles per hour (or depending on weather conditions at the DM's discretion). The ability fails if it runs into strong winds or rain or other adverse conditions. paper disguise: (Utility: 0 burn) you can use paper to change your clothes and appearance. This ability otherwise works like the "veil of mists" wild talent. adimantium paper: (Infusion: 1 burn) Your paper becomes as hard as adimantium and can pierce hardness You may apply this infusion to Paper based utility wild talents as well for 0 burn. laminate: (utility: burn -) your paper based wild talents deals normal damage to water and fire based creatures. In addition, all other paper wild talents lose their vulnerability to water and fire paper sight: (Utility: 0 burn) Utility this works like touchsight, except you attach a paper doll to the target. This means that teleportation effects do not end the ability, however the ability only has a range of 240 ft. The doll becomes inert if out of range and can be noticed and destroyed if the target passes a perception check. Paper alarm: (utility: 0 burn) you can spread paper on the ground that takes up to 40 ft per kineticict level. you are instantly aware of the location of any creature that touches your paper even if asleep. the alarm can be sneaked past if an enemy makes a DC 10 +Con +kineticict level sneak check. you can choose to half the area covered to double the DC on this check Paper climb (utility: 0 burn) as earth climb but you use paper to create hand holds. Muffle: (utility: burn -) whenever you use a paper or water (not ice) based wild talent that persists for more than one round, sonic and other auditory effects within 5 feet of your talents effect must make a caster level check or be negated within that area. in addition, you gain the ability to use paper or water wild blasts to counter-spell sonic effects Sponge: (Substance infusion: 2 burn) (prerequisite: laminate) your blast deliberately absorbs moisture. creatures hit with your blast become fatigued (for negates). creatures suffering bleed damage every round immediately suffer that amount due to your blast in addition to the damage taken each round. Creatures that are primarily made of water take 1 point of con damage (fortitude negates). Smother: (substance infusion: 1 burn)(prerequisite: laminate) creatures partially or fully made out of fire take one point of constitution damage (fortitude negates) as their bodies are covered in smothering paper ash. entangling | lvl 3 talents: Paper sight, Spying: (utility: 0burn) this ability works like touchsight, spying except it works at any distance, uses a paper doll as per papersight, and only provides the benefits of hearing and sight. in addition, the doll can be controlled at a distance while spying allowing you to hide it or have it follow another person. engulfing paper: (Utility: 0 burn:) you gain a 30 % miss chance from all attacks until the beginning of your next turn. you lose the shield bonus from paper skin while this talent is active. by excepting 1 burn, you can extend the duration by 1 round per kineticict level. Paper ribbon: (form infusion: 2 burn) your paper blast contains a paper ribbon that wraps around a part of the targets body. targets linked to the ribbon can not move a distance further than the length of the ribbon as specified by you (though it can not be longer than your blast distance) from wherever the other end of the ribbon is attached. You may use this infusion on another unwilling target after the first to attach the two together. This ribbon has the hardness of an iron cord and persists for one round per kineticict level. You may increase this duration to 1 minute per level for an additional point of burn, or to one hour per level for two points of burn. Torrent | Impale | Thorn Flesh | lvl 4 talents: Paper maneuvers: as telekinetic maneuvers but you use paper to preform maneuvers, and use paper finesse to qualify for advanced maneuvers. Paper puppet: (utility: 0burn) this ability functions as aether puppet except it creates paper golems instead. Paper barrier: this functions as force barrier except it is made of paper as hard as Iron rather than force. cyclone | lvl 5 talents Tape: (Substance infusion: 2 burn)(prerequisite: entangling infusion)You may only use this form infusion in combination with either the tape or cocoon substance infusion talents. you can use your paper to seal openings, hold doors closed, and keep crumbling objects together as long as you concentrate. In addition this talent functions as the suffocate talent except it functions as a Form infusion that only applies on a successful hit. The target is also blinded and can attempt a strength check to rip the paper off it's face before making each fortitude save. you can't expel the air from the targets lungs, but you can accept 1 point of burn to make the effects last a number of hours (for objects)or a number of rounds (against living targets) equal to your Con mod without maintaining concentration. you may resume concentration when the time is up. Paper wings: (utility: 2 burn) (prerequisite: paper plane)you gain paper wings and a fly speed equal to your normal move speed until you regain your burn. you can fly with wings made of paper with maneuverability (good). If you have the air cushion talent, you gain a 60 foot fly speed and perfect maneuverability. You may also grant wings to paper puppets if you can create them. lvl 6 talents cocoon: (Form infusion: 2 Burn) (prerequisite: entangling infusion) this talent functions as the entangling infusion wild talent except the target gains the pinned condition instead. If the target makes it's reflex save or frees itself via an escape artist or strength check, the target becomes only entangled instead. lvl 7 talents paper sphere: (Utility: 0 burn)(prerequisite: adimantium paper) you create a sphere of iron hard paper around you. this ability functions as though it were the Telekinetic globe wild talent except the barrier is adimantium hard paper rather than force. lvl 8 talents Battle suit (Utility: 5 burn) (prerequisites: kinetic form and one of either flesh of stone, flesh of wood or paper skin defense wild talents) you encase yourself in a suit of paper, earth, or wood battle armor.You must have Kinetic form active before using this ability (the suit is the same size as the one granted by kinetic form) and you lose the benefits of flesh of stone, flesh of wood and/or paper skin defense wild talents you have. All attack rolls made against you other than mind affecting and air based poison effects target the battle suit instead of you. The battle suit has a natural armor bonus equal to 5+ the number of points of burn you currently have allocated to your defense wild talents. the suit also gains any dodge deflection, untyped, or Dex bonuses you currently get. The suit also gains a number of HP equal to the HP you lost from the above listed burn. damage to the suit can not be healed and is destroyed when it runes out. You can dismiss the suit as a swift action and reform it as a standard, though it reforms with the same amount of HP as when it was dismissed, though deformities such as holes are repaired. The suit grants a +5 bonus on melee attack and damage rolls Paper Coffin: (Form infusion 0-5 burn) (prerequisite: cocoon) you surround your target with paper and blast them from all sides. To contain a small creatures requires 2 burn. medium creatures require 3 burn, large require 4 and huge require 5. you can not contain creatures larger than huge, though you can target body parts. creatures smaller than small size require no burn. If hit, the target must make a reflex save. If they succeed, they take half the blasts normal damage and are entangled by the paper as though under the effects of an entangling infusion. If they fail they take the full damage, are pinned, and must make a strength check to escape the coffin followed by (on failure to escape) a fortitude save each round or take 1d4 points of CON damage as the coffin slowly crushes them. You must concentrate to maintain the coffin unless you accept one more point of burn in which case the coffin persists a number of rounds equal to your Con modifier. lvl 9 talents Kinetic Apocalypse: (Utility: special burn) you completely let go of all control and unleash your blast in a continuous 480 ft vortex. This blast deals 6 times your normal blast damage or 3 times the damage of one of your composite blasts to all creatures in the area each round (reflex halves). once you begin you can not stop or regain control. You take 3 burn on the first round and one additional burn every round after. You continue to take burn each round even if you reach your normal burn limit. the attack continues until you are rendered unconscious. You can forcefully end your rampage by making a DC 30 will save. If you succeed, the effect immediately ends and you are forced to take 3 points of burn ----------------------------
Ash blast: energy (paper + fire) (1/2 slashing, 1/2 fire) you unleash a blast of burnt paper cinders at an opponent. infusions that cause the paper to attach or linger last 1/2 as long, but deal 1d6 of fire damage each round they are in contact with a creature. Soggy blast: physical (paper + water) (bludgeoning) you soak your paper in water and unleash the wad at a target. creatures entangled by elemental matter become grappled for one round and grappled creatures become pinned for one round. soggy blasts are not vulnerable to wind effects Static paper blast: physical (paper + electricity) (1/2 bludgeoning, piercing or slashing, 1/2 electricity) your paper gains a static charge that shocks as it hits. The DC on reflex saves vs paper infusions using this blast increases by +2. This blast can benefit from the effects of the magnetic infusion. Paper vortex blast: physical (paper+ air) 1/2 bludgeoning, piercing,slashing, 1/2 bludgeoning) your air blast includes hardened paper debris. if you have the muffle wild talent, you can pierce sonic walls and effects with this blast dealing only the wind half of the blasts damage. paper vortex blasts are not vulnerable to wind effects Janken Blast: physical (paper + earth or telekinetic) (1/2 bludgeoning 1/2 slashing or piercing) you wrap a chunk of earth in sharpened paper or cover it in paper spikes. if you have fire as an element you may add 1 point per die of fire damage to the attack as well for one extra burn. Janken blasts gain a + 4 to sunder attempts. Janken blasts are not vulnerable to wind effects. ______________________________________ thoughts? Ideas for more? also note that some talents go beyond paper, particularly Kinetic Apocalypse. it was originally Paper Apocalypse as that sounds better, but then I realized it could be universal. Also, a side note for any devs watching: electric + telekinetic = railgun blast. Also it would be cool if, once fleshed out better, this stuff (the paper stuff that is) gets printed if I could get a minor acknowledgment in the special thanks section or something. Nothing much, and probably won't happen, but it would be kind of cool.
Besides which, how does aiming with your physical toughness make any sense in the first place? Armored hulking monster: "How did you hit me when your so slow and weak!?!?" Kineticict: "I had the guts to take you on" .......I will see myself out
Why would you waste a feat on getting a blast you would get at level 7 anyway? If you expand to a different element. For example, I have an air(electric)kineticict who is planed to expand into telekineticict. Have your read the awful that IS aether composite? 2 burn to add a measly 1/die to damage when everyone else gets double the dice (at least make it 1 burn dangit!)? As things stand, I don't get REAL composite blasts until extremely late. This restriction also forces you to have to expand an element you already have to get the other blast. you get more benefits from another element than that unless you need the extra talent (which you unfortunately usually do. should have gotten a talent by default and had sticking to your main element give a bonus instead). Finaly, if you expand, you can only ever expand again into your primary, or another element. this means you can NEVER have both of your second elements simple blasts. Point is, I want to have some way to keep up with damage if I expand to aether. Doesn't matter if it's a way to gather power as a swift or a way to get a decent composite.
Keep hoping on the Supercharge feat. Considering even getting to get rid of 2 burn as a move action is an 11TH LEVEL class feature, you're never going to get a swift action Supercharge. not a supercharge feat a QUICKcharge feat. allows you to use empower on a blade/whip. currently, charge is the ONLY way to not burn for empower (let alone higher metas and composite. At some point, empower almost becomes necessary to compete. this means you can NEVER full attack with meta or composite without really eating it. That isn't to say that you can use both your swift AND your move to charge (unless you chain on another feat [hypercharge?]) using the feat would force you to immediately use the gathered power rather than hold it like normal. feat basically allows you to move and empower or composite blast and gives the option to do so as a whip as well. Ss a side note, just came up with a good composite for electric and telekenetic : railgun blast as seen in "A Certain Kind of Magical Index". another idea from the same show: give void a dispelling infusion.
There are a few things I'm hoping for. first, a feat for kineticictes to quick charge as a swift. another is some way to get access to your main elements second blast. Also tele and void need a better composite option. I don't know what they could do for the problem with the level 7 talent (that you don't get if you expand and staying pure is hardly worth it) that you don't get or the fact that the class is a bit feat starved, but a fix for that would be nice. I also have a cool idea for an archetype for the wood element: Paper user A La the anime Read or Die. make paper hard as steal, sharp as a blade (vorpal even) gain an armor bonus for defense (natural armor?), use colored paper to Disguise Self, lock pick, and sleight of hand. plant a paper doll on someone to track them A LA touchsight. create paper constructs. feather fall with paper and glide with paper airplanes. here be a fight from said anime to give you an idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEgiKVHtKEA
While the new build may have problems, keep in mind that the biggest boon is not so much the current new features as it is the way the class itself is now FORMATTED. now that the class abilities pull from lists of options, deficiencies can be addressed with new abilities. lacking Ki? the designers releases a Ki ability that grants you double your WIS bonus or fuses your pool with a pool from another class for multi-classers. need more style strikes? release a feat that lets you use an extra one. loss of will save got you down? there's an That being said, the fact that you have to use up slots to make such fixes is unfortunate, but we have quite a few slots to work with. remember, we now have an UPGRADABLE monk. just so long as the unadorned unchained monk functions at least as well as a base fighter, the developing team has succeeded. The bells and whistles can come later. all that being said, here are my thoughts: THE GOOD:
THE BAD:
THE NEEEEEEEEEEEEEED (in the future):
have I missed anything here? Will saves were brought up, but I think the high WIS + Still Mind have that covered.
They now have the keyword "unchained", so keeping with the pattern so far, we will likely get unchained magic, unchained combat and other "unchained" goodies. There is plenty of room for more scaling magical items, archetypes for the new rebuilds not to mention feats.
That is what it says in Unchained "with the exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace" (the reason is that even things that trade features you still have often have bizarre side-effects, like losing Flurry and then getting Style Strikes you now can't use, Flurry doesn't change your BAB and is now thus less of a loss other than Style Strikes, etc), but I recommend playing it the way that works best for your group! Wordcountwise it would have taken tons of space, but workwise, it will take very little work to get a specific archetype ready just the way your group likes it!iirc, mark specifically stated earlier in thread that UC monk is not allowed to take vanilla archetypes, even if it has the class features to replace for them.You actually can take master of many styles. It's still compatible in terms of abilities replaced...Unless your talking about society play. I wonder why they disallowed ALL of the monk archetypes. MoMS dosn't seem like it would break the new monk considering the fact that the new improved flurry of blows is now much more painful to lose. True enough. Some of the style feats now come online earlier so doing it without the archetype is possible (though having to use the combat style master feat is a bit of a pain, particularly with crane and panther) Anyway, while you're here, what is the reasoning behind the whole amulet of mighty fists issue vs enchanting strikes like a normal sword. The masterwork rule for enchanting items seems to be the only thing standing in the way. Is there a reason for the problem not being addressed in unchained (such as a balance issue we are not seeing) or have we misunderstood something important?
AH, but that was for optional systems that didn't really catch on. The new unchained classes are different. think about this from the business side of things for paizo. unlike the old monk, this new one has mix-and-match powers. this means they have a base source to write new material and therefore new books. it's also based on popularity. both prestige classes and archetypes are also alternate systems, however, prestige classes, arguably the older subsystem, gets little support compared to archetypes. long story short, if everyone and their grandmother switches to the unchained monk, we will stop seeing base monk options in future books and see a bunch of unchained options.
Unarmed strikes are unarmed strikes. They aren't manufactured weapons and they aren't natural weapons. Now the monk's unarmed strikes are treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons. But they actually aren't either.Monks unarmed strikes aren't natural attacks or manufactured weapons. They only count as such for spells and some abilities. Thus you can't get a +1 to you unarmed strikes. I see what your getting at now. I forgot strikes were distinct though I forget where it says that. Also the text DOES say that it's only treated that way and doesn't actually count for other purposes. That means that while masterwork COULD actually target an unarmed strike, because there is no masterwork equivalent,the spell fizzles halfway through. There goes option A as a pre-existing work around. Now the only hope is for errata to fix it. Honestly, considering the fact that the class outright calls out the strike as manufactured, I think the original intention was that strikes could be enhanced. I think they simply forgot about the masterwork problem. As to why they didn't use unchained to fix that problem...
I also agree here. water walk ,requires lvl 6 but light steps, the less mystical of the two abilities requires 8 AND another ability? That feels off to me. I also think there is something off about the style strikes. considering their power level, I can see why they are so limited, but you get more strikes than you can actually use in combat. it makes one feel like they have an awesome ability that they can't actually use because another ability takes priority. maybe a future archetype would take care of this (though probably at the expense of ki powers).
Monks unarmed strikes aren't natural attacks or manufactured weapons. They only count as such for spells and some abilities. Thus you can't get a +1 to you unarmed strikes. It's not that they count as neither. It's that they count as both. That being said, I retract what I said about magic weapons automatically providing masterwork quality. The masterwork rule is, in fact, in the magic weapon crafting rules. This means that we have a few simple solutions to the problem. A: the monks unarmed strike can be affected by the masterwork spell. The problem here is that the spell talks about "masterwork equivalents". this raises the question of whether strikes have a masterwork equivalent. B: The spell gets errated to fix the problem specificly for monks. C: the monks strike is errated and is labeled as an exception in the class D: The masterwork requirement gets taken away completely (seemed kind of redundant in the first place seeing as by the time you go for masterwork you have the gold for magic weapons anyway, then again, there may be side effects that I am not seeing).
I was under the impression that adding magic to a weapon automatically made it masterwork. according to Ultimate equipment on the PRD: "All magic weapons are automatically considered to be of masterwork quality. The enhancement bonus granted by the masterwork quality doesn't stack with the enhancement bonus provided by the weapon's magic." If it DOES have to be masterwork first, then that IS a problem. In fact it is the only problem. we shouldn't be focused on the amulet so much as we should be focused on unarmed strikes not being eligible for the masterwork quality (or at least being an exception to the requirement the way strikes are an exception for greater magic weapon).
You actually can take master of many styles. It's still compatible in terms of abilities replaced...Unless your talking about society play. I wonder why they disallowed ALL of the monk archetypes. MoMS dosn't seem like it would break the new monk considering the fact that the new improved flurry of blows is now much more painful to lose.
You guys DO realize that Amulet of Mighty Fists hasn't been necessary for a monk ever right? Monks strikes count as manufactured weapons. This means that magic weapon spells work on them. greater magic weapon + permanancy (which any magic weapon shop would supply) = magical super fists. Even says this is the case right in the magic weapon spell description: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/magicWeapon.htmlI see a lot of people are still unhappy about the price of the AoMF, was anyone expecting that to be fixed in unchained?It basically was fixed in my opinion with the automatic bonus, since you can apply the bonuses to your unarmed strikes and standard clothes. A monks unarmed strike inherently bypasses DR. Ki strike treats unarmed strikes as magic weapons (and eventually adamantium and lawful as well) enhancement bonus or no enhancement bonus. Also your enchanted unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured weapon. This means that it can't be dispelled just like a sword can't be dispelled if you went to a shop and had it professionally applied (though if you apply it in the field, it can be dispelled just like it would be on a sword). If you can take your sword into a shop to get an extra +1, you can bring your body in too. Amulet of mighty fists is redundant in the hands of a monk. It only serves a purpose for other classes that then take improved unarmed strike as a normal feat. It should be noted that I don't play Society games. In our home games, you can typically just walk into a shop and purchase an extra +1. I would imagine that with society games and how much stricter they are, you have to actually find a powerful casting NPC to provide the enhancement. That can be a problem when the rest of the party can get by on treasure they find while the monk is dependent on actually finding a caster. That however is a problem the Pathfinder Society needs to deal with and has little to do with the monk itself.
I see a lot of people are still unhappy about the price of the AoMF, was anyone expecting that to be fixed in unchained?It basically was fixed in my opinion with the automatic bonus, since you can apply the bonuses to your unarmed strikes and standard clothes. You guys DO realize that Amulet of Mighty Fists hasn't been necessary for a monk ever right? Monks strikes count as manufactured weapons. This means that magic weapon spells work on them. greater magic weapon + permanancy (which any magic weapon shop would supply) = magical super fists. Even says this is the case right in the magic weapon spell description: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/magicWeapon.html
I'm actually curious-- is there a rules quote floating around that actually says the "one additional Elemental Fist" bit is always active? on one hand, the implied nature of style feats says no, but then the ability includes "per day" in it which implies inherent. And if THAT is inherent, then that opens the can of worms we are dealing with for the other style feats.
The problem here is the RAW. In the section that describes style feats it says: "You can use a feat that has a style feat as a prerequisite only while in the stance of the associated style. For example, if you have feats associated with Mantis Style and Tiger Style, you can use a swift action to adopt Tiger Style at the start of one turn, and then can use other feats that have Tiger Style as a prerequisite. By using another swift action at the start of your next turn, you could adopt Mantis Style and use other feats that have Mantis Style as a prerequisite." It says nothing about the first feat in the chain. furthermore, the feats themselves seem to go out of their way to separate the benefits into two groups (in stance and inherent). example: "boar style:You can deal bludgeoning damage or slashing damage with your unarmed strikes—changing damage type is a free action. While using this style, once per round when you hit a single foe with two or more unarmed strikes, you can tear flesh. When you do, you deal 2d6 bleed damage with the attack." The feat goes out of it's way to put the "While using this feat" line in the second line rather than the first. The same problem would apply to the second chain link if not for the line about prerequisites in the description for style feats. However, the RAI is that style feats effectively cease to exist so long as you are not in the stance. This goes more with the whole "one stance at a time" flavor of styles, but completely wreaks style feats ability to synergize with one another. It effectively forces you to take monk of many styles or jump through hoops during combat using the "combat style master" feat. And then we have the style feats that grant extra uses of elemental fist. these style feats grant that particular bonus when not in the stance. end of story. there is no other way to interpret "gain an additional use of elemental fist per day" as something you only get while in the stance. are these exceptions to the rule? As for my personal take, I think the styles SHOULD give an out of stance boon in addition to the in stance one. After all,those feats are taking up a slot and it would be unfortunate to have three slots wasted because you wanted two styles but have to choose one depending on the situation.
Many style feats seem to grant a benefit that is separate from the stance itself. Examples include boar style (the part that makes unarmed strikes slashing damage), crane style (the part that makes defensive fighting is only -2), and the elemental styles that grant extra elemental fist attacks. In all of these examples, a separate benefit is also granted but explicitly requires you to be in the stance. Is this separation intentional? Do you only gain extra elemental fist attempts when in the style? What about the later feats in the chain that also separate things? The general consensus on the forums seems to be that you DO get the separate benefits for the first feat in the style chains when not in the stance because the style feat section only prohibits feats that have a style feat as a prerequisite. This is particularly important for people who want multiple style feats, but don't want to be forced into Monk of Many Styles (and opt for the combat style master feat instead) If possible, can we get an official FAQ ruling on this issue?
I can see where you are coming from in terms of the monk. The feat is still most useful for a monk, but the "not being able to take the last feat" thing makes it more of a big two handed weapon feat. I don't see how it relates to casters though as melee casters rarely use two handed, definitely never use big weapons, and only have a 1/3 BAB (or 2/3 for partial casters putting them in the same boat as the monk). As for vital strike functioning, Kinetic blade specifically omits weapon damage. remember this is a form infusion of a blast. it's a blast with a different shape. that's the logical reason it does not work. mechanically, vital strike on a (at lvl 9) 5d6 for practically no cost is insanely broken. concerning AoE, AoE does NOT hit touch. That's normal energy blasts and magic rays your thinking of. AoE is stuff like burning hands and fireball which are reflex for half damage. The halving combined with the fact that mook swarm type monsters tend to get High reflex (and therefore half it often) combined with inherently weaker dice means that it balances out with physical AoE that is halved but almost always hits. example: con=4, lvl 1
wind: 1d6+1+con all halved
at lvl 5: electric: 3d6+ 1/2con
wind: 3d6+3+con all halved
physical ends up being good for little fast mooks while energy is good for big slow high HP and AC mooks. Of course this applies only to AoE. when it comes to normal blasts, you have to factor in touch AC, but your physical blasts are not halved.
,.... What are you talking about.. Vital strike multiplies weapon dice. Kinetic blast is nothing But weapon dice. I'm actually quite upset as this was a class that made such a feat actually WORTH it without having to be some Super powerful caster or Giant monster... Or Jabberwock. Even with all the craziness that was applied to the blast it still didnt compare to Archers or Standard full attacks. But it made your cannon an Actual cannon.. Just a shot range one. Blast is a spell like ability, not a weapon. really, vital strike was mainly meant to be a monk thing to go with their ever increasing weapon damage. It can be applied to people wielding big weapons two handed too though. ------------ concerning the Area of Effect thing, it makes perfect sense how it is set up. AoE is meant for mook mop-up. Mooks tend to have lousy AC (if they don't, then they are wearing fancy armor or have outrageous natural AC, and if that is the case, they aren't mooks now are they?). Therefore a physical AoE blast will likely always hit (say about 90% of the time). This means that in order to balance the fact that you are hitting many at once consistently, the blast needs to be halved inherently. Energy blasts are different. Usually a reflex save is involved rather than AC and reduces damage by half. Reflex is not something purchased but rather built into the monsters. This goes especially for mooks who tend to be small, numerous, and quick. This means that energy blasts will be halved fairly often about 75% of the time). The other 25% when they fail the save is taken care of by the fact that the inherent damage of energy attacks are slightly lower. On the flavor front, a physical blast involves a bunch of "shrapnel" while an energy one involves an evenly disperser blanket of energy. makes sense that half of a shotgun effect would be wasted energy while an energy wave would kind of wrap around and consume the opponent. electricity courses through a person, fire consumes, water and acid drench and aether aethers things with its aether (physics? What physics?).
The lack of vital strike is justified really. Vital strike multiplies weapon damage but not additional damage from properties and stats. kinetic blade is basically nothing BUT non-weapon dice. It's not so much that the feat doesn't work with kinetic blade as it is that there is nothing to multiply in the first place. Long story short, vital strike is redundant when used with blade.
I think you might be right. the problem isn't that blasts are too powerful but that melee gives the chance to hit with multiple blasts. we could nerf melee, but the difficulty is that the melee often doesn't hit with all his attacks. This makes achieving the proper balance tricky. If he hits with all his attacks, melee overshadows blast. if melee is nerfed, when he hits normally blast become the better deal. The best thing to do to make the calculations easy would be for blast to just involve itteratives the same as melee. That makes the luck factor the same and thus gets rid of wonky math. However, this is not to say that the kinetisist shouldn't have an all or nothing option like what we have now. maybe a feat or class feature could allow a kinetisist to make a super blast at a hit penalty on a standard action rather than the single small shot he gets on a standard. Alternatively, make it a talent without the penalty but with burn. Now the question remains, should melee and blasts (nerfed with itteratives) deal the same damage? melee still needs some reason to be better than blasting due to the danger factor. Would giving the blade a d6 "weapon damage" die in addition to the blast die do the trick? maybe the blade does bludgeoning (slashing and piercing with a talent) if made of pure energy, but if used to coat an actual weapon, it does the weapons damage instead? of course, all of this pondering is basically spitting in the wind at this point. The core mechanics of the class are done leaving us only with room for feats, archetypes, and wild talents. another talent/feat idea: kinetic blade used as a two handed weapon.
I disagree, melee shouldn't do more on a single attack than a single blast, what it should do, is more damage across a full attack and be useable during attacks of opportunity. but if blasts do more than a typical melee hit, then there is never a reason to melee, especially when blast enhancements come into play. damage scale, from least to greatest should be as follows: blast -> melee single hit -> melee full attack -> enhanced blast normal blast is weak because it involves no risk.
All of this is speculation though as I have not actually playtested the class and the final form is going to be completely different anyway.
You do raise a good point. Is kinetic blade compatible with TWF? If not that changes the importance of Kinetic fist. If it is, Then keeping fist separate remains redundant. Do note that this is a non-problem for monks as they can flurry with a single hand. It's normal TWF builds that are problematic. Personally, I would rule that you can form two (maybe for extra burn?). also, new wild talent: Foe hold: you can pick up an object or creature and hold them in place in the air as long as you concentrate up to a number of rounds equal to your CON modifier. You can spend an additional point of burn to increase this time to 1 minute per point of your con modifier.
If kinetic blade and kinetic fist did the same thing, kinetic fist would get an additional, free attack. If we just make kinetic fist 'half' only and allowed kinetic fist to add bonuses from magic fist weapons or what not.. I think that might balance them. I have not done the math though. Why would Fist get an extra attack? That only applies if you take levels in monk (or the TWF feat). Also, I forgot to account for CON mod to damage in my calculations. doesn't change the ratio though. In general, melee should do more on a single hit vs a normal blast (compensation for melee being in more danger), but a supped up blast should do more than two melee hits due to using resources. Rather hard to balance those two rules.
I think it is unacceptable to balance a class based on its multiclassing capabilities. we are more trying to discover ways kinetic fist could be salvaged and how it interacted with an unarmed class. If we are talking straight kinetisist, the melee loses 1d10, and replaces it with 1d3 and 1d6+1. That's a (min 1,max 10) -> (min3, max 10) difference. average goes up by 1 to 34 per hit, though you're less likely to get a second hit for 68 For blasting, the value increases by 1d6+1 for an average of 40 (min 20, max 70), and twice that much for composite to 80 (min 40, max 142) this is 34 vs 40 for a basic hit and 68 VS 80 for a lucky/ resource hit. Still somewhat balanced if we account for Kinetic strike getting other outside bonuses and blast not getting those bonuses, but getting more resource boosts. Though melee might need a little more (maybe 1 extra die?) Naturally, This only accounts for what everyone should have at lvl 20, not for any other tricks people might employ.
If your GM is sending out a kinetic fist octopus, that's not a mechanics issue so much as it is your GM being a complete and utter psychopath :) I agree though. Fuse fist and blade into one talent (lets call it Kinetic Strike for now). Give it half blast damage AND the ability to be enhanced by equipment and party spells. Make the kinetisist be considered an unarmed fighter in terms of flavor only. He does not get unarmed benefits in terms of feats (unless he takes improved unarmed or takes an archetype in which case his Strike is compatible with stuff like stunning fist. This should rebalance any multiclass trickery. A monk basicly makes up the difference in blast damage with his levels (baring monastic legacy, (3 monk 17 kinetisist hits for 4d6+4+6+1d10+1+5 (average 33, min=21 max=50 on dice with assumed CON of +6, STR 1 and magic weapon +5) max hits (4 with flurry) means 132 (average) min=84 max=200. You will likely be hitting with at least 2 of your 4 so a typical turn will be about 66 damage. Seems reasonable for a class that is combat based for comparison blasts deal:(normal blast: 36 (max 63, min 18) composite: 72 (max 128, min 36) . no outside enhancments tl;dr: on a monk3 kinetisist 17, melee averages 33 (one hit)to 66 (two hits), blasts average is 36 to 72(composite blast) 1/2 blast to melee seems to work out mathwise to me with melee having to take risks to hit big, but for free and snipers having to spend resources to hit big, but outdoing melee if they do. this build assumes weapon damage though, so weapon damage should be part of a kinetic strike. pure energy strikes deal 1d6 weapon damage while real weapons enhanced by strike deal their own?
The damage is a problem, but the real issue is what is the point of kinetic fist in the first place? Kinetic blade does almost the exact same thing flavor wise (you can't use kicks and headbutts, but that's just a matter of adding a minor flavor sentence). both involve coating your hand in kinetic energy. Just one is a gauntlet/boot/helmet and the other a sword (that can also be a gauntlet technically) mechanically, one does straight blast damage and the other is a small bonus to normal damaging attacks. To a degree they can come out similar but...: lvl 20:
average: 21 dmg on one hit (max:31) (min:12)
average: 30 dmg on a hit(max:60, min 10) (60 with composite, max 120, min 20)
The fact that the damage is lower is bad enough. the fact that you have to spend money and feats to get even that much upgrades it form bad to unacceptable... ESPECIALLY when there is little to no flavor reason to take fist over blade. technically, if you take three levels of monk, fist is a benefit, but the cons outweigh the pros of doing that because the classes do not synergize well without an archetype to link them.
New talent idea for a darkness kinetisist: keeping with the theme of darkness drawing things in (taking inspiration from the dark dark fruit from one piece): dark funnel (substance, 1 burn): a dark kinetisist can cause attacks to veer towards him. He can spend burn as a swift or immediate action to redirect any projectile within twice the range of his dark sphere towards him instead of it's intended target. the orbs miss chance is negated and the attack receives a +2 bonus to hit you when this ability is used. In addition, he can cause all melee attacks within that area to veer towards him. attacks not directed towards him take a -2 penalty to hit. melee Attacks directed towards him however receive a +2. When he uses this ability, he can dismiss it as a free action, but must wait 1d4 turns before being able to do so (He may elect to let the ability last the full round instead) This ability affects friend and foe alike. you may spend additional burn to increase the bonuses and penalties by an extra +2 per point.
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-------------------------------- naturally, we are going to need a light kinetisist as well who does the opposite of the dark. he should be opposite and similar, yet still different in his own right. light sphere defense talent: You can surround yourself in a sphere of light that repeals attacks. the sphere covers a 10ft radius around you. projectiles gain a 20% miss chance against you from attacks outside of the sphere. In addition, when creatures enter your sphere, they are dazzled for 1d4 rounds. creatures with sensitivity to light are blinded for 1d4 rounds and dazzled for an additional 1d4 rounds after. creatures that leave the sphere receive a -2 circumstance penalty to hit that goes away each round they are out of the sphere as their eyes readjust. You can increase the radius of the sphere by 5 ft for each point of burn spent. (you can reduce the size at will) ----
light field: you create an immovable 10ft circle of light that makes creatures light on their feet. All creatures in the field treat weight as one step lighter (including weapons. weight carried is halfed) and terrain as one step less difficult. In addition, all creatures gain a +5 to acrobatics and climb checks and a +2 dodge bonus to AC (this ability affects friend and foe alike). -----
antigravity sphere: you create a powerful miniture white hole and shoot it onto the ground within your blast range. The hole occupies a 5ft square and affects an additional 10ft radius sphere around (total 15 ft of effect). It and lasts a number of rounds equal to your CON mod. Any creature in the radius area is subject is immediately bullrushed away from the sphere. If a creature is directly under the sphere, it is immediately subject to the effects of a reverse gravity spell. If a creature hits a solid surface due to the spheres effect, it takes falling damage equal to how far it moved. such a creature is considered pinned until it succeeds on a STR check vs the spheres DC and takes a move action to exit the area of effect. You can spend a point of burn to increase the sphere's radius and the area of effect radius by 5 ft/point of burn. -----
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Energizing light: While in normal light, you do not suffer penalties for being fatigued. If you are exhausted you suffer fatigue penalties instead. In bright light, you are completely immune to fatigue and exhaustion effects (though you can still suffer natural fatigue and exhaustion). you suffer no penalties to sleep in bright light and only need half the usual amount of sleep when doing so.
tis a sad thing. My group basically disbanded due to drama and has been for a year, so I stopped checking on pathfinder stuff...only to find out that I missed the playtest for the ONE class I have been waiting YEARS for. (up to this point, my best bet was to multiclass monk and magus. anywho, I shall continue to contribute in what little ways I can. so. we have probed ghost hunters, alternative stats, and other such goodies. now we need to look at the good old kinetic swordsman. energy slashes and the like: how should they work? Merely adding slashing damage to a blast doesn't seem to ...cut it (heh) for the price of a wild talent. Maybe if it becomes a wide piercing thing...
Kinetic slash (prerequisite: kinetic blade, aether) (composite): "As a full round action, you use your kinetic blade to unleash a kinetic blast in the form of a slash. your blast gains the slashing quality and affects all creatures up to your blast range in a straight line rather than the first creature it hits. You can spend burn to increase the width of the slash such that it effects two lines instead. Increasing by an additional line for each point of burn spent. The blasts power decreases by one die every time it hits a creature in the line. Against creatures that are larger than a single line, the damage form this attack is treated as though hitting them once for each line of width of the slash (dealing damage multiple times and decreasing in strength as though hitting multiple creatures) This form infusion can only be used with aether blasts and composite blasts that use aether functions with energy type blasts. --------------------
BTW Mark, we are talking about kinetic blade and such, but are we too late for that? I know the stat thing is done with, but what should we be focusing on in this thread now? What parts are still changeable or can be added to and what parts are past the point of no return? Should we keep discussing the class as is or should we stick to new ideas that can be added in either in this book or the future?
I don't think power attack and other such things work with kinetic blade actually. Only stuff that affects blasts, and even then, not stuff like empower (more things that need clarification). Meanwhile, kinetic fist gets less damage but can be enhanced by weapon damage and other enhancements. Even with enhancement though, fist falls behind. I did a bit of math and decreasing blade to 1d6/2 blast dice makes melee not worth it, even with itteratives on melee (difference gets worse if blasts get itteratives) as such, fist needs to be much stronger. If fist can be enhanced, then 1d6 per blast level might do it. especially if it gets flurry or two weapon. personally, I think any kind of melee for a kenetisist IS unarmed. it should be a part of the class (with the note that he is only armed when his attacks are covered in energy). even a kinetic blade is a weightless weapon. your basically smacking people with energy from a foot away rather than an inch. if the point of kinetic fist is for there to be a physical aspect to the attack (such that a fire punch isn't just a touch of fire, but an actual punch) then that should be EXTRA. How about this: keep kinetic blade as is (with clarification tweaks of course such as the tele having to hold a thing. that has to go), but replace kinetic fist with "Kinetic Strike" strike would allow you to channel your blast through a weapon (including natural and unarmed strikes) to get both the blast damage and weapon damage. With this, you don't have to pick between your kinetic blade and the legendary artifact sword you find on your adventure.
final separate topic: energy slashes. I'm talking slashes a-la:
Maybe a wild talent to give an energy blast slashing damage?
+1 More like "You are a genius and have created the only class I will ever play, Mark!" seriously, you have no idea how long I have waited for this class. anyway, separate post for separate topic. how should our bloodbender actually work? Should it be simply controlling the water in the blood, or should he actually have a link to an offshoot of the plane of water: the elemental plane of BLOOOOOOOOOD! Think about it: All the abilities of water except badass red: red ice. red mist clouds. red steam. In addition, any blood summoned from the plane would NOT provide healing and combat bonuses to a vampire, but CAN be used to stave off a vampires thirst. Gives an option for heroic bloodbenders while still giving villainous vampires an incentive to drink people.
Kinetic blade can be stuff like gauntlets too as it is currently set up. On one hand, kinetic fist is a bonus to your normal damage and kinetic blade replaces your damage. Almost should be an "any weapon" option rather than just for unarmed strikes (also, does kinetic fist provide improved unarmed strike? Needs some clarification here.) Maybe the two abilities need to go away and be replaced by a single more versatile ability. The ability should involve both the creation of weapons AND the enhancment of weapons. You could have the option of "kinetic bracers" to enhance your attacks OR you can use the +3 short sword you just found adventuring. The weapon created shouldn't be a specific shape. It should be either a coating on your natural/unarmed strike or a flare out of energy that you slash people with from any part of your body that deals ???? amount of your blast damage in other words, this: http://i.imgur.com/8bTXUBv.jpg or this: http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/ultra/images/4/48/Tiga_hand_slash.jpg/r evision/latest?cb=20130812075317 NOT this: http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/029/7/d/mmd_energy_sword__halo_2 _dl_by_btabc-d5t6d57.jpg This isn't to say another wild talent couldn't give it a specific shape once you are leveled up and have more control of your power. If so, it would gain all of the properties and base damage of the weapon emulated in addition to the percent of your blast damage it normally deals.
Mark, is it possible to let me know whether or not I should keep theorizing about a Spirit Detective archetype inspired by Yu Yu Hakusho, or has one already been ordered for the book?Some sort of spirit detective of one sort or another seems likely in the book, but Yu Yu Hakusho inspired and kineticist archetype in particular? That's probably pretty unlikely for Occult Adventures. I think that not only is making your own mods/archetype for a particular anime a super cool idea for a thread in the Homebrew forum, though, but also, I could totally see a series of 3pp products with kineticist mods each meant to help realize a different anime series. in that case, (unless these ideas could be plans for future paizo books [My GMs don't allow 3rd party :( ]) maybe it is better for us to focus on wild talents rather than full archetypes with regards to a spirit detective/ghostbuster type thing. I forgot about kuwabaras dimension slice. Maybe a talent to allow a kinetic blade to slice through ward type spells? (I think kinetic whip takes care of kuwabaras extension ability if it's tweaked to allow you to burn to increase the range. spirit gun as a wild talent might be a positive energy type ability (if we get a positive energy element thing, then take it as your first and aether as your second. Maybe spirit wave as a composite blast? Alternatively, have a feat that turns force into sacred (or profain) damage (sacred is only slightly better than force really. Feat tax is enough to compensate for such an upgrade). either that or give it ghost touch for the day by burning. (the ghost touch thing dosn't extend to demons though. I would prefer something that can be used for demon hunting) a "sense element" thing could have aether users senses detect etherial creatures at least (I doubt we could get demon and general undead detection this way though.) The ghostbuster grapple/baneshment thing I mentioned could be a composite for electric and aether. would still prefer it as a lvl 1 thing so people can make true ghostbusters, but if we must wait until lvl 5 or so, so be it. for the shotgun, we will probably get a cone universal wild talent that takes care of that. However, I still think the flurry one shot I mentioned before would be cool for a monk archetype For spirit wave, we already will have nova options though they aren't Ki based at the moment though. Don't know how Ki actually factors in (though for an archetype Ki and burn should be interchangeable in some way or another at least flavor-wise if not mechanically.
Compatible archetypes, as in not one blood bending undead archetype but their being a blood bending archetype and an undead archetype. Almost think the bloodbending should be a wild talent. On the other hand, if it's an archetype you can go further with it. Not only can you use a *snort* "watered down" version of dominate (please don't smack me for that pun), but said dominate ability would be a FORT save. creatures normally immune or resistant to WILL domination would now become fair game. Whats more, if the ability advances you can do things like create or accelerate bleed damage, if you're a vampire, feed from a distance, or even reverse someones bloodflow for a high level instant kill ability. also, they get foe throw and can move still warm corpses like a telekentisist. obviously their one weakness would be undead and anything without blood like constructs and certain outsiders. This would make it a poor choice for some adventures but an excellent choice for a GM designed enemy in a horror (especially as a vampire). Just imagine: "you can't dominate my will you undead fiend! My will is too strong!" "If I can't have your mind mortal, THEN YOUR BODY WILL HAVE TO DO!" alternitivly: "You want to eat me? you will have to defeat and capture me first bloodsucker!" "I don't need to catch you to have a meal. My! Is that a paper cut on your wrist that I see?" also: "so much wasted blood on the ground. I think I shall bend the blood out of the dirt into my mouth to heal myself!" -----------------
heh. His backstory can be that he is a housekeeper names rock who kenisises dirt out of houses, but has to convert to a fighter. metalbending + another element to make all of the robot masters!
That is all good for special encounters, but a spirit detective would have problems in normal encounters if the sacred shot is the focus. whats more, other classes have fixes for those kinds of encounters and probably do more damage. in fact, the damage might be a problem in general. Consider magic missile for example. force damage and always hits. However, at higher levels it becomes useless despite it's ability to pierce almost any defense. I think the sacred blast should be more of an extra. spend a point of Ki to add #d4 to your blast as sacred damage. Alternatively, spend a point of Ki to make your blast not only have ghost touch, but do double damage to ethereal and outsiders (and maybe normal undead as well). that would make the spirit detective function normal at low levels and become a straight up demon hunter at high levels. no necromancer or demon contractor wants to encounter a spirit detective in a party. The thing is, we have to watch how resource intensive the abilities are. that was the main problem with the base monk (1 ki for a one shot instead of a powerup for a minute). We don't want to repeat that mistake. If Ki is spent, it should be an extra special thing, or a long lasting thing. A single damage die increase/ki is too small. All things considered though, I doubt that the monk flavored kinetisist will have a separate Ki pool (though his burn should count as Ki). Also, a spirit detective, to keep with the detective half of things, should have the ability to know when someone is being dominated, has a "necromancy" aura about them, and the ability to actually track ghosts "trail of ectoplasm". He should also be immune to possession and vampire domination (but not spell domination).
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