When using windsight in a downdraft
A downdraft blows from the center outward in equal strength in all directions.
lets say at 30mph (the highest you could get from 0mph with the CL6 wind manipulator talent)
does it allow you to see as if you were standing 30 feet in all directions of yourself?
I see a lot of people putting Arcane Strike in their builds... Does the Kineticist qualify for that? I know the blasts are spell-likes but I thought with the FAQ you needed an SLA that replicated a real spell. It would make sense if they do and I would definitely be happy with it but just wanted to make sure in case I decide to use it and someone else pulls up my own argument against it.
Also, with the Geokineticist's damage resistance: it seems like this is pretty much an all-day thing, only turning off when you turn it off. In that case... why doesn't the Geokineticist just have DR/Adamantine? The immediate action wording confused me and left me with an initial impression that you had to activate it on a round-to-round basis, eating up your swift actions.
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Okay, that changes things a bit for the better. First off, Deadly Aim is back on the table, as Empower apparently increases it.
Aerokineticist Bob is going to be spending a move action whenever possible now, so he's kind of stuck where he is. Luckily, he's got quite a good range on his air and blizzard blasts.
Empowered Cold blast +20 (5d6+9)x1.5 =~= 39.65 DPR
Empowered Air blast +18 (5d6+21)x1.5 =~= 45.48 DPR
or Empowered Air blast +20 (5d6+17)x1.5 =~= 46.19 DPR
Empowered Blizzard blast +18 (10d6+26)x1.5 =~= 60.24375 DPR
or Empowered Blizzard blast +20 (10d6+22)x1.5 =~= 62.92125 DPRand of course the big ticket one:
Maximized Empowered Blizzard blast +18 (129) =~= 101.59 DPR
or Maximized Empowered Blizzard blast +20 (123) =~= 109.78 DPRBefore looking at the maximized one, I was thinking well behind the fighter. Nova is certainly an option though, at the cost of 40 hp per big hit. That means once, unfortunately. :(
What level is this character? so that we can comparre it to the dpr olimpics example
I am curious how this will play, I will likely try a Terrakinetic and maybe get someone elsein my party to play another type not sure which.
Man would love to port Stonechild over for this, that +8 Con would make this epic.
Going to try to playtest a few different flavors of kineticist sometime soon. It'll probably have to be a self playtest though since friends are busy. Does anyone know the best way to go about playtesting against one's self? Just be unbiased I suppose and record what happened as best possible?
Perhaps someone with more DM skill could create a sort of test challenge thread that people could try their characters on. Nothing much I'd think. Different types of enemies at varying CRs. From ranged, to flying, to up close, grappling, spells, etc.. Won't do much good without a party for some of these classes (mesmerist comes to mind) but it could be nice to show publicly ones testing. Just a thought. Might be some like this already really.
Also, if not already mentioned, and after 12 pages I'm sure it has, I was sort of expecting a few more types of attacks from some of the elements. Such as earthquake and quicksand type attacks for earth, telekinesis involving tossing a specific enemy about (I realize one exists where you toss and enemy at an enemy, but I was more looking for picking up an enemy and moving them around as I please... forcefully.) I'd also like to see more about the mixed elements (metal, mud, magma, sand if it exists past the sandstorm, etc...) Anyways. Perhaps more blasts and abilities are waiting in the wings and we're supposed to focus on what we have, so I'll just leave this here.
In any event. Out of the classes, this, while being somewhat "simpler" seems the most fun to me. There are others, but this actually feels like it can be effective where some of the others feels like they're holding back a bit power wise (for now). That's just from reading it of course. Have to wait and see if that's truly the case.
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True! I do have it in mind to look at a melee-focused kineticist next though, who will be able to take advantage of a lot of these things.The kineticist will definitely be better in melee, but only slightly better than an expert using archer seems pretty sad.
A fix for that would be full bab hint hint.
Here is a melee guys for you to compare against:
** spoiler omitted **
Fighter bob's dp is 81.04
NG Small humanoid (human)
Init +9; Senses Perception +15
Current Burn 3
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Defense
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AC 28, touch 20, flat-footed 22 (+7 armor, +1 deflection, +6 dexterity, +2 luck, +1 natural, +1 size)
hp 103 (10d8+50) 30 nonlethal
Fort +14, Ref +17, Will +6 (+8 vs. fear)
DR 8/adamantine
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee earth blast +20/+15 (5d6+12) or metal blast +20/+15 (10d6+17)
Ranged empowered earth blast +20 (5d6+12)x1.5 or metal blast +20 (10d6+17)
Special Attacks adaptable luck 4/day (+3), burn +3, metakinesis (empower, maximize), pushing infusion +12, ride the blast, risky striker +6
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Statistics
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Str 8, Dex 24, Con 18, Int 7, Wis 11, Cha 9
Base Atk +7; CMB +5; CMD 23
Feats Combat Reflexes, Fortunate One, Risky Striker, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (kinetic blast)
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ infusion specialization (form –2), wild talents (expanded element [earth], extended range, kinetic blade, kinetic whip, pushing infusion, rare metal infusion, ride the blast)
Other Gear +2 mithral kikko armour, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of physical might (Dex/Con) +2, boots of speed, cloak of resistance +3, cracked pale green ioun stone (attacks), gauntlets of the skilled maneouvre (bull rush), jingasa of the fortunate soldier, ring of protection +1, 4,900 gp
Standard routine is earth blast whip for no burn points: DPR is 44.9, 77.5 with haste, and 91.3 with Risky Striker. He can spend a burn point to empower his full attack, increasing that final number to 136.98. So yeah, there are some good options here.
I'm quite sleepy, so if none of this makes sense in the morning, it's because of that. :)
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So I played a pyrokineticist tonight, and wow. Yeah, the air and water are so much more versatile and useful to play. Earth is a little better than fire, but not much. Especially at lower levels. If anything, the pyro needs a bit of a boost at first level. At least for available wild talents. Seriously, how many fires are you going to need to move out of your way? At level 1 you shouldn't be outshadowed by every character. You're literally a one-trick pony, and having someone with resist 5 fire as your first encounter makes you kind of useless. Maybe the next scenario he'll be more useful, but with fire being the element most are protected against, even at 1st, a couple more wild talents to choose from would be nice. Make smoke attacks to escape (0 burn smokestick), burn foliage and brambles that block paths, etc. Make him a fire ninja.
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Hmm, with the composite attacks, they seem to be primarily just merging the two base blasts called out in the pre-reqs. How about with the lvl7 talent just allowing them to combine 2 base blasts for 2 burn? That would allow a little more variety and customisation as well as free up some room for looking at cool stuff. Possibly have the single element composite blasts as a modifier you get access to or something.
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With it's new (or revisited) mechanics the Kineticist is a favorite among many.
Especially among Character Optimizers.
I can see the appeal, an imaginative, fun class.
The Kineticist lacks the subtlety for Occult Adventure campaigns:
I don't see any rules in the Kineticist class that suggests he (or she) will integrate well into Occult Adventures.
Few skills, few skill points. Damage dealing powers and defensive powers.
A sharp contrast to subtle characters like the Medium and Occultist.
Occult adventures is about adding secrets and mystery to the Pathfinder milieu. And I fail to see how the Kineticist could possibly contribute to adventures about investigating a ritual murder in a small town or the role of evil spirits in the corruption of a high profile noble.
Fracturing a gaming community:
The player of a Kineticist will get frustrated and bored, eager to test out his significant array of powers.
While the other players are enjoying the high fantasy/epic combat restraint, immersing themselves in the grim atmosphere and suspenseful tone.
In the end, the player of the Kineticist character will be asked to play something else. An action that will fracture an already fractured gaming community.
With it's new (or revisited) mechanics the Kineticist is a favorite among many.
Especially among Character Optimizers.
I can see the appeal, an imaginative, fun class.
The Kineticist lacks the subtlety for Occult Adventure campaigns:
I don't see any rules in the Kineticist class that suggests he (or she) will integrate well into Occult Adventures.
Few skills, few skill points. Damage dealing powers and defensive powers.
A sharp contrast to subtle characters like the Medium and Occultist.
Occult adventures is about adding secrets and mystery to the Pathfinder milieu. And I fail to see how the Kineticist could possibly contribute to adventures about investigating a ritual murder in a small town or the role of evil spirits in the corruption of a high profile noble.
Fracturing a gaming community:
The player of a Kineticist will get frustrated and bored, eager to test out his significant array of powers.
While the other players are enjoying the high fantasy/epic combat restraint, immersing themselves in the grim atmosphere and suspenseful tone.
In the end, the player of the Kineticist character will be asked to play something else. An action that will fracture an already fractured gaming community.
Two things, dude. A little bit melodramatic, and I'm not sure you are correct. Fighters, Brawlers, Slayers, Magi, and whatever else aren't exactly equipped to handle mystery any better than the Kineticist. If there are rules for how to handle mysteries and whatnot, I'm sure they are going to affect everyone.
And anyways, we don't know the full contents of this book. How about we let it release before we make dramatic declarations about a single class ruining the community.
Okay, so, I echo the calls for more to hit bumps.
I threw together a Dwarf Terrakine (I actually like Petrokine more). Lets call him Peter.
Peter has PC wealth and a 20 point stat buy of Str 10, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 14, wis 12 Cha 8.
With his wealth by level, he buys a +6 Belt of Physical Might (Con and Dex),Wings of Flying, +5 Ring of Prection and Amulet of Natural armour (Paying +50% for attaching it to the wings), and Bracers of Falcon's Aim.
For his feats, lets say he has Point Blank Shot, precise Shot, WF(Kinetic Blast), Steel SOul, Improved Initiative, Medium Armor Proficiency, Deadly Aim and Toughness.
Lets stipulate that when he activated Flesh of Stone he took five points of burn to start is day with Feel the Burn maxed out at +5.
So Peter Gathers Power and hunks a Metal Blast at any enemy 25 ft away. If it hits, it will do 14d6+26, and because Peter has Infusion Specialisation (Substance) taken twice, he tacks on Magnetic and Rare Metal Infusions on for free, so he'll average about 75 damage (Assuming I haven't screwed up the maths) and be able to ignore most non-outsider DR assuming the party wizard communicates with him.
However, according to the Monster stats by CR table in the appendices of B1, your average CR 17 monster has an AC of about 32, and Peter has a to hit of +22, so he's going to miss often as he hits. He could drop deadly aim for the first shot at each enemy and get a +4 to hit next turn for magnetising them, and lowers his d20 target number to 6 from 10, but that feels dicey (Pardon the pun).
My suggestions:
-Make the default blasts Supernatural Attacks, so Vital strike is compatible with them.
-Make the non-touch blasts more accurate, either by upping the BAB to full, providing accuray increasing infusions which don't require hitting in a previous round, or giving the Kineticist to get an enhancement bonus to their Kinetic Blasts.
Edit: One question: using the Move earth Wild Talent, could you stand on a boulder, and then pull it up, functionally levitating? I also kinda want this Talent to be a move action so you can pilot it around/keep it floating while throwing rocks at people.
With it's new (or revisited) mechanics the Kineticist is a favorite among many.
Especially among Character Optimizers.
I can see the appeal, an imaginative, fun class.
The Kineticist lacks the subtlety for Occult Adventure campaigns:
I don't see any rules in the Kineticist class that suggests he (or she) will integrate well into Occult Adventures.
Few skills, few skill points. Damage dealing powers and defensive powers.
A sharp contrast to subtle characters like the Medium and Occultist.
Occult adventures is about adding secrets and mystery to the Pathfinder milieu. And I fail to see how the Kineticist could possibly contribute to adventures about investigating a ritual murder in a small town or the role of evil spirits in the corruption of a high profile noble.
Fracturing a gaming community:
The player of a Kineticist will get frustrated and bored, eager to test out his significant array of powers.
While the other players are enjoying the high fantasy/epic combat restraint, immersing themselves in the grim atmosphere and suspenseful tone.
In the end, the player of the Kineticist character will be asked to play something else. An action that will fracture an already fractured gaming community.
Two things, dude. A little bit melodramatic, and I'm not sure you are correct. Fighters, Brawlers, Slayers, Magi, and whatever else aren't exactly equipped to handle mystery any better than the Kineticist. If there are rules for how to handle mysteries and whatnot, I'm sure they are going to affect everyone.
And anyways, we don't know the full contents of this book. How about we let it release before we make dramatic declarations about a single class ruining the community.
I made no mention of ruining a community.
Its a response about play style. And I consider the play styles to be too different. And I think play style is another facet of play testing that should be considered.
Players become passionate about certain classes and I think inclusion is a positive path to take.
Added investigation powers for the Kineticist would keep the class involved in the more restrained and suspenseful narratives of Occult Adventures.
I read Buhlman's introduction to Occult Adventures, it paints a clear picture of his creative ambitions for this supplement and future Adventure Path releases. It gives some idea of what lies ahead.
Idea about Burn.
What if it functioned so that something like 5x your current number of Burn points is the only non-lethal damage that can't be healed?
For example, a 10th level Kineticist has 5 burn points and 50 points of non-lethal burn damage. He can heal 25 of those 50 points, but the other 25 are permanent until he rests.
This would allow you to burn for longer (without it being so debilitating or not worth the cost) but still retains that element of burns have semi-permanent damage.
This is not a setting book, this is a rule book.
The Kineticist falls in line with the nature of the classes, magic like powers that stem from something other than arcane or device sources.
A player's predisposition rash or flashy actions impacts role play far more than the mechanics of the class they are playing. A good player can play a rogue or barbarian with any and every class.
I'm more and more beginning to think that some kind of enhanced melee ability should be baked into the class from level 1. Maybe not kinetic blade but perhaps a lesser version of kinetic fists?
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I don't know if anyone has brought this up but is there anyway we can get a change to the pure flame wild talent to have it reduce fire resistance and turn immunity into something like say fire resist 20? As it stands by the time you can actually get that ability the worry of overcoming my targets SR is less of an issue in the case of fire attacks as finding away around resistance or immunity and with so many creatures that do have either of those options and not many counters to it being built into the pyro's kit pure flame feels like something that will be at best okay or at worst an ignored or trap option for most pyro builds.
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Idea about Burn.
What if it functioned so that something like 5x your current number of Burn points is the only non-lethal damage that can't be healed?
For example, a 10th level Kineticist has 5 burn points and 50 points of non-lethal burn damage. He can heal 25 of those 50 points, but the other 25 are permanent until he rests.
This would allow you to burn for longer (without it being so debilitating or not worth the cost) but still retains that element of burns have semi-permanent damage.
Hmmm... What if it could be healed but it was more difficult to do so?
This class seem to suffer with accuracy and low hp, so giving it full BAB and d10 seems to be the obvious solution... Some sort of item that works as weapon enhancement (without occupying the Big 6 slots) would also help... Maybe a Robe of some kind?
Also, how about an ability to bypass energy resistance? Say... Resistance 5 at 7th level, 10 at 11th level, 15 at 15th level and 20 at 19th?
Maybe an ability to use Burn to bypass Energy Resistance/Immunity?
I have had dreams of a high-level kineticist shooting (or quickening) a magnetic infusion electric blast to take advantage of touch AC and use the to-hit boost as a prelude to a follow-up metal blast. Will you be the one to make those dreams a reality?So they are. I'll stick with magnetic infusion.I am reading this correctly that a 6th level geokinetecist with extended range and Impale has a 120' line attack for potentially 1 point of burn? (Not that I think you'll ever hit more than 2-3 opponents.)Those are both form infusions.
I would have tried, but the high level game I'll be testing in is only level 14... Though they do want to run "Witch war legacy" later, so it may yet be possible. Though not before the end of the playtest I think.
Instead of the secondary blast ability that the elements have( or should have if they don't), the Aether element could get telekinesis(at will) instead of the force blast. Considering how week that spell would be at low levels it wouldn't be to powerful.
I don't mind that the blast is subject to DR, SR, resistances, and/or immunities. What does is that the blast provokes attacks of opportunity. So I would love an ability that makes it so using doesn't provoke(or needs a concentration check) even if it is a spell like ability and a ranged attack.
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I'm more and more beginning to think that some kind of enhanced melee ability should be baked into the class from level 1. Maybe not kinetic blade but perhaps a lesser version of kinetic fists?
I've built my first kineticist (check out the profile for stats) and the first thing I hit when building her is she's just SCREAMING for more armor proficiency... I think the class should have at least medium proficiency from the get-go.
I'm more and more beginning to think that some kind of enhanced melee ability should be baked into the class from level 1. Maybe not kinetic blade but perhaps a lesser version of kinetic fists?I've built my first kineticist (check out the profile for stats) and the first thing I hit when building her is she's just SCREAMING for more armor proficiency... I think the class should have at least medium proficiency from the get-go.
I would second that.
I like the idea of picking what stat you use for your abilities, maybe each element gives you a physical or mental path.
Aether- Dex, Int
Air- Dex, Int
Earth- Str, Wis
Fire- Dex, Cha
Water- Con, Wis
Maybe picking a physical or mental path gives you some advantages/disadvantages. Like the physical path gives you more melee combat abilities and the mental one gives you more spell like abilities.
I was also thinking about such a division but it would be a nightmare to balance.
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I'm more and more beginning to think that some kind of enhanced melee ability should be baked into the class from level 1. Maybe not kinetic blade but perhaps a lesser version of kinetic fists?I've built my first kineticist (check out the profile for stats) and the first thing I hit when building her is she's just SCREAMING for more armor proficiency... I think the class should have at least medium proficiency from the get-go.
I'm not sure how useful more armor would be. Most kinetecists are going to prioritize dexterity over strength.
Even if focusing on Kinetic Blade/Kinetic Whip, you won't gain damage from a high strength.
Mark, I read in one of these Kineticist threads about the amount of work you'd put into balancing the burn mechanic. Purely out of curiosity, if you don't mind me asking, were there any specific numeric benchmarks you were looking for in the balancing process, such as percentage of average hp vs burn, or was it more dependant on playtesting to measure risk vs rewards?
Well how about the path just gives you a bonus feat or few bonus feats with different choices based on the physical or mental paths.
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I'm more and more beginning to think that some kind of enhanced melee ability should be baked into the class from level 1. Maybe not kinetic blade but perhaps a lesser version of kinetic fists?I've built my first kineticist (check out the profile for stats) and the first thing I hit when building her is she's just SCREAMING for more armor proficiency... I think the class should have at least medium proficiency from the get-go.I'm not sure how useful more armor would be. Most kinetecists are going to prioritize dexterity over strength.
Even if focusing on Kinetic Blade/Kinetic Whip, you won't gain damage from a high strength.
While this is true, at low levels having medium armor would still be a huge help. I had built Sumane with Scale Mail at first, and since her Dexterity modifier is only +3, it added +2 more Armor bonus, which is really big for the first few levels at least. Later on, I would upgrade to Mithral medium armor to increase that max Dex and decrease the check penalty.
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I have shown the class to my group, and they had some observations about it:
First, they were overjoyed by the possibility of playing something similar to several characters in fiction they loved. They mentioned mostly Avatar, Star Wars, Carrie, Fairy Tail, DC comics, and others I didn't recognize.
Then, I asked them to take a hard look at the rules and try to make some of their favorite characters in fiction. We established that 10th level should be enough, as most were fairly high powered.
We ended up with the following characters: A Pyrokineticist (inspired by Avatar's Firebenders), a Hidrokineticist (inspired by an ice magic guy from Fairy Tail), a Telekineticist (insired by a jedi from SW), a terra/geokineticist (inspired by Terra from Teen Titans), and another Telekineticist inspired by Carrie.
Player's toughts: We played then a 2 hour improvised game so they could get the feel of the characters in and out of combat. The fights went fast, but healing was problematic. These are their comments about the class:
1-They felt the class needed some way to fight hand to hand, as most of the sources they chose to emulate were pretty good martial artists. One player suggested the class gained a combat style to chose, like the ranger, so it wouldn't be confined to unarmed combat.
2- The class is lacking influence outside combat. Interaction with skills and character behavior were expected from their chosen element, and there were few rules to support that. Overall, the characters were pretty ignorant and without depth outside combat.
3- The blasts worked fine in combat, but most of them didn't want to use the burn mechanic. Some non damaging reserve would be appreciated.
4- At several times the players wanted to manipulate the element in a way not covered by the rules, so I didn't allow. It annoyed them.
5- Some talents might require some fine tuning, as the aether defense (didn't help much). But those were minor concerns.
One player asked to suggest some telepathy based powers for aether.
GM's toughts:I made some NPCs to interact with them in a village, 2 encounters in a forest and 2 in a small dungeon. What I noticed:
1 -They were fairly easy to hit, and vulnerable to maneuvers. Using cover made their job very hard.
2 -It seemed to me that at the end of the day, the class is underpowered. A sorcerer could have done pretty much the same they did but better. Damage would be at the same level, defense would go to the sorcerer by far, flexibility would be achieved with spells and bloodline skills/powers, besides being the face with high charisma.
Conclusion: As a conclusion, it were a consensus that the class is standing as a one trick pony. One with great potential, but that requires much more flexibility and rules to support the flavor. All of the players are now with high hopes for this class, and by far seems the most interesting theme in the book for them.
My opinion is that the class could use a boost in defense and utility outside combat (skills and utility powers). The lack of flexibility in manipulating the elements can be frustrating. Some weapon/unarmed combat style wouldn't hurt either.
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Something akin to a ranger combat style could be incredibly useful as well, and because it doesn't directly impact wild blasts should not make the kineticist too powerful.
So first off I love this class. It is almost everything I ever wanted in a blaster and/or an element-bending class.
The big problems as I see them are:
Accuracy: The classes 3/4 BAB isn't quite enough for higher level tests (at around 12th+ it becomes a problem.
DR / Elemental resistance: There is currently no way to overcome Alignment based DR, and only geokinesis (incredibly minor nitpick, all latin or all greek prefixes, not mix-and-match) can bypass material based DR. The argument can be made, that at the higher levels you can have 2 types of blast but honestly these two things are frequently found on the same creature, which makes that option not so great.
Damage Output: This class seems to be pure DPS, with very little out-of-combat utility aside from some highly situational abilities. Given that it's damage feels slightly underpowered. A dedicated blaster-caster can easily put out more damage than the kineticist, as well as having more utility from their non-blasting spells. Granted the blaster has to expend spell slots to blast, but from 10th level on I've rarely encountered a caster who regularly ran out of spells. That being said I don't think a kineticist should be doing more damage than a blaster, but it should be comparable. [note, this is all assuming that vital strike cannot be used with blasts, if this turns out to be untrue then HOLY CRAP TOO MUCH DAMAGE]
Burn: While not exactly a problem (and I must say I really love the idea and flavor behind this) I found myself incredibly reluctant to take burn for anything but what was (hopefully) a finishing attack, a very small pool (maybe just con modifier) that you could add to by taking the nonlethal, or maybe just only 1/2 level in NL would work better.
Solutions:
The Accuracy, DR and damage would all be more-or-less solved with an item like amulet of mighty fists, that would grant an enhancement bonus on all attack and damage rolls/count as various materials. Seriously, this one item would fix basically all the problems the class has (and maybe you guys were already planning on an item like this, after all fighters don't look like they have ways to bypass DR if you don't list the feats and items they can take).
In summary: this class has me more excited than any other class that has been announced and/or printed, this is absolutely the right direction to be going for a class, and this one is almost there!
The problem with an item like amulet of mighty fists but for wild blasts but not EXACTLY amulet of mighty fists is that a kineticist who also likes his kinetic fists has no way to both boost their wild blasts and unarmed strikes at the same time.
Perhaps an addendum to wild blasts which notes that effects that add an enhancement bonus to unarmed strike also affect wild blasts is in order? That way an amulet of mighty fists can affect both wild blasts and unarmed strikes of a kineticist. Given the cost of the item I don't think this will be problematic. This can also open up things like magic fang affecting wild blasts (which IMHO sounds like a natural fit).
Ahh I missed Expanded Element on my first read through, I'm literate I swear, long as I can make her and other ridiculous Avatar characters I'm happy. Bring on the blood bending!
I have to admit that I was very happy when I realized that I could create Combustion Man with the Explosion infusion. :D
(I just wish it came before level 16!)
Mark, just curious, what are your thoughts on making the various wild talents all have "spell levels" that scale with the character's level rather than having them be based on the ability? I'm worried that characters will be picking abilities that will be useful early on, but then at high levels aren't really worth using because the saving throw DC is so low. Plus, the kineticist doesn't have a 'highten spell' ability like a standard caster to make a low level spell work at a higher level.
Actually, maybe there could be a highten Metakinesis that changes the DC of a power to 10+ 1/2 lvl +Ability Mod?
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A lot of people are commenting on the lack of out of combat options that this class has. The truth is it has some out of combat tricks, but there is very little room for someone who wants to remain competitive with damage to take them.
I would propose providing far more talents, and splitting them into blast talents and wild talents. Blast would cover offence, and wild would cover utility. Then just give the kineticist kinetic blade at first level along with a wild talent, and then a blast talent every even level and a wild talent every odd level. More options means that it won't feel like a waste to take something like Light Touch, which is a really cool power, but is pretty low as far as offensive priorities go.
A lot of people are commenting on the lack of out of combat options that this class has. The truth is it has some out of combat tricks, but there is very little room for someone who wants to remain competitive with damage to take them.
I think a signifigant boost to skills could help a lot with this issue. Maybe it would be neat if the Feel The Burn power didn't just affect attack and damage, and instead affected certain skills as well. For example, an Airbender *cough* I mean Aerokineticist could gain bonuses to Acrobatics and Fly from Feel the Burn. Fire could gain Acrobatics and Intimidate bonuses, Water could gain Swim and Heal.....
You know, I just looked at the class skill list. Even if this class keeps its skills limited, shouldn't it at least have Knowledge(planes) since its power comes from the planes?
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Mergy has a good point.
Something else I note when reading through the talents is that the different effects come in very late (like KINETIC FORM requiring lvl 10, GREATER KINETIC FORM requiring lvl16,...). How about we lower the prerequisites to the same lvl a wizard gets to do these things but add some burn, like so:
KINETIC FORM
Element air, earth, fire, or water; Type Sp; Level 6; Burn 1
Prerequisites kineticist level 7th
You can call forth your element and infuse it into your entire body. You gain elemental qualities of a type of elemental that matches any of the elements you possess as if by casting elemental body I. When reaching kineticist lvl 9, by accepting 2 additional points of burn, until the next time you recover burn, whenever you use kinetic form, you can instead gain the benefits of elemental body II. When using kinetic form, you never gain the earth glide, whirlwind, or vortex abilities. When you reach kineticist lvl 10, the burn cost to use kinetic form is lowered by 1.
This way you get access to your tools the same lvl as normal casters but they cost burn to prevent at will from becoming too OP.
Mergy has a good point.
Something else I note when reading through the talents is that the different effects come in very late (like KINETIC FORM requiring lvl 10, GREATER KINETIC FORM requiring lvl16,...). How about we lower the prerequisites to the same lvl a wizard gets to do these things but add some burn, like so:
KINETIC FORM
Element air, earth, fire, or water; Type Sp; Level 6; Burn 1
Prerequisites kineticist level 7th
You can call forth your element and infuse it into your entire body. You gain elemental qualities of a type of elemental that matches any of the elements you possess as if by casting elemental body I. When reaching kineticist lvl 9, by accepting 2 additional points of burn, until the next time you recover burn, whenever you use kinetic form, you can instead gain the benefits of elemental body II. When using kinetic form, you never gain the earth glide, whirlwind, or vortex abilities. When you reach kineticist lvl 10, the burn cost to use kinetic form is lowered by 1.This way you get access to your tools the same lvl as normal casters but they cost burn to prevent at will from becoming too OP.
I like this idea. It could be applied to things like the Explosion infusion as well so we can get fun things like that at a lower level.
Some abilities that improve defenses would be nice. Maybe an AC bonus based on level, this could be a dodge bonus(Aether, air, fire) or natural armor bonus(Eart, Water). Maybe a constant mage armor effect(Aether) that increases based on level.
Choosing what stat is your prime stat for all abilities would be cool plus some bonus feats based on that stat choice would be awesome.
Str- power attack, cleave, improved sunder, improved unarmed strike
Dex- weapon finesse, dodge, mobility, lightning reflexes
Con- toughness, great fortitude, endurance, diehard
Int- skill focus, magical aptitude, combat casting*, spell penetration*
Wis- alertness, iron will, self-sufficient, improved iron will
Cha- deceitful, persuasive, leadership, extra wild talent**
*If these feats apply to kinetic blast.
**Not existent feat...maybe;)
I like this idea. It could be applied to things like the Explosion infusion as well so we can get fun things like that at a lower level.Mergy has a good point.
Something else I note when reading through the talents is that the different effects come in very late (like KINETIC FORM requiring lvl 10, GREATER KINETIC FORM requiring lvl16,...). How about we lower the prerequisites to the same lvl a wizard gets to do these things but add some burn, like so:
KINETIC FORM
Element air, earth, fire, or water; Type Sp; Level 6; Burn 1
Prerequisites kineticist level 7th
You can call forth your element and infuse it into your entire body. You gain elemental qualities of a type of elemental that matches any of the elements you possess as if by casting elemental body I. When reaching kineticist lvl 9, by accepting 2 additional points of burn, until the next time you recover burn, whenever you use kinetic form, you can instead gain the benefits of elemental body II. When using kinetic form, you never gain the earth glide, whirlwind, or vortex abilities. When you reach kineticist lvl 10, the burn cost to use kinetic form is lowered by 1.This way you get access to your tools the same lvl as normal casters but they cost burn to prevent at will from becoming too OP.
I like this as well. At lvl 10 in my comparison of a wizard to all of the archetypes of this class, and i would pick the wizard every time because both his utility out of combat just as well as his ability surpassing anything(maybe not damage wise) this class can do in combat. I would still pick wizard, because the wizard is far more flexible than this class could ever be both in combat and outside of combat.