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Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 2,184 posts (2,211 including aliases). 1 review. 2 lists. 1 wishlist. 18 Organized Play characters. 2 aliases.


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Magic Butterfly wrote:

Yeah, I've built out most of the relevant NPCs. It's funny; a lot of the advice for JR talked about how cumbersome the caravan and relationship/NPC focus could be, but that has not been the case at our table. The caravan rules are fine if you use some fixes. The relationship stuff is going amazingly. I'm using Ultimate Relationships and the NPC relationships have been the high point of the campaign so far.

For the core NPCs:...
There are plenty of other NPCs they've taken that I haven't built, like Spivey and Zaiobe. I keep them all a level below the PCs, except for Ameiko, who is equal level.

Apologies for the necro...but this topic is exactly what I am working on right now.

I'm going to be running this soon (currently running the last part of RotR, Jade Regent is next) and like all of your ideas. Though I am thinking on retraining Ameiko after she meets a mysterious patron who is a master/or after a certain 'awakening'...I may go with some kind of Martial adept of some kind.

While that may be third-party stuff but I've always had a soft spot for Book of Nine Swords and the Pathfinder conversion of those rules (Path of War). It gives a stronger xianxia/xuanhuan feel and if there was an AP that screams for it, this one certainly qualifies.

I'm debating on adding cinematic styles/physics (knockdown/knockback) as well...

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Not sure if it is related to this other thread:

But since it has been a month I decided to start a new thread.

Was trying to buy the Shattered Star AP (all 6 PDFs).

Exact same symptoms. Advance one page at a time, verify payment method and submit order. See spinning cog and then screen stays the same.

Checked card history and no pending payments (other than the one for a subscription) appearing. Not sure if it has to do with maybe a banking change? Software update?
I have no idea.

Don't know if this helps but:
1. I have not moved in over a decade so I am guessing it is not an address verification issue?

2. These are the same payment details that just cleared for several Paizo subscriptions in the past month (one of which was like a couple days ago) so I am think that it is not the card?

No big rush but if someone could see where the hiccup is in the next week or so I'd appreciate it.


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FlurryofBlunders wrote:
If you have any comments, suggestions, corrections, or other ideas, feel free to use this thread as a discussion thread.

Thank you very much for this guide! My friends and I are pretty much beginners to PF2 and this guide helps out tremendously.

Keep 'em coming and thanks again!

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Will be running modules mostly as is. Starting with beginner box which I think is like playing with training wheels, which is exactly what we want. :)

Since we're trying out the new rules (I've play tested and then tried a few short introductions at cons but that was it) our group has made some well, fluffy decisions which are not really optimal. We're not using the pre-gens unless we get some last-minute players dropping in.

So I was just wondering for folks who have played and run, if you party basically has mostly PCs in the 14-16 range for their primary stat...are they going to run into major issues?

Our group aren't really optimizers and we usually play more DWorld and FATE.


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VampByDay wrote:

I think some people are missing the point. I’m not saying build a low magic campaign, but more of a ‘ use what you find’ campaign. I’m not trying to adjust the power curve so much as say. . Like. . . let me give a scenario.

Let’s take a party of a standard melee champion, wizard, cleric, and rogue. They go on an adventure in the middle of the Stolen Lands where there aren’t a whole lot of villages around, and the ones that are around aren’t big enough to buy/sell magic armor.

Over the course of level 2, the champion finds a +1 battle axe. Not quite the long sword he was using but perfectly serviceable and it works for him. The rogue finds a +1 rapier, basically an upgrade to his +1 short sword. The cleric finds a +1 Longspear essentially an even trade with their quarter staff, and the wizard finds a +1 club, which is a bit different than their wizard’s staff, but works just fine.
That’s the kinda stuff I’m talking about. Obviously my example is JUST AN EXAMPLE and shouldn’t be taken too literally.

I ran 1e so I remember. Now granted, even 1e had the “well crap I can’t use that +1 axe because I’m double specialized with the longsword.” as of UA anyway.

That said there are many ways of doing this. Probably the easiest (if maintaining efficiency is a concern) is recall that PF has retraining. So that axe-wielding barbarian can switch his specialization to that magical greatclub.
Or you could retcon.
Or you as the DM simply state the ground rules for the game before you begin so players know what will happen with regards to rewards.
Alternatively you can change nothing. Even if Joe’s build is better with a kukri...when Joe as you said, runs into that ghost he will use that ghost touch dagger instead.
A bit of this IMO has to do with mindset. And so choose the path of most fun. :)

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Hey gamers!

I've read through several threads but they are all from last year regarding this inquiry and much has been released since then.

I'm considering running a one-shot to introduce my gaming group to 2E. If it goes well, then I'll move to an AP.

Most of my group has experience with other systems (including 3.5, PF1, Dungeon World, Fate, etc.) and I was looking for a good intro to the 2E system. Ideally I would prefer something with a good story.

And as far as APs, what would you recommend? I hear the basic premise of Extinction Curse is Circus vs. Dinos, which sounds really nifty, but there have been other releases since then so I was wondering if a newer one is preferable.

One final thing while I am a Roll20 sub I recently took a gander at Foundry VTT and decided I'm going to give Foundry a spin. So if there's an AP/adventure that runs better via Foundry please let me know.

Cheers and happy gaming!

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I enjoy playing kineticists and for our current campaign after our TPK (wererat rogues throwing dusts of sneezing and choking at our party from surprise) someone suggested I look at the wood element for something different.

I did and have a couple of questions right off the bat.

Several of the infusions that are available are from other, older, sources which don't tell you which blasts may be used. For example Deadly Earth is normally used with earth, magma, metal, and mud...which wood blasts work with it? Same goes for say Entangling infusion. We can assume it works with wood (physical)...but what about positive blast? And which composite blasts?

It appears if you take wood again as your expanded element (at 7th), the class doesn't have a composite blast? Is that correct?

Thanks in advance!

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Just looking for some advice.

Which classes are generally easier to build / play? From a newbie standpoint?

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My very small sampling: out of the 20 groups and approx 200 PF players I know, only one of them has played more than 1 session. The exception is myself. Because I am trying to get sold on the system. That said, if I cannot form a single table...I’ll have to switch around...

I tried to get my GF into tabletop play. After several disastrous attempts when she was younger (old ADND) she had sworn them off. So we signed up for PF2E at a convention. Our experience? 3 and a half hours to go through a single combat round. My GF and I spent about 2-3 minutes total, the rest was by the GM and other 3 players.

Sadly, it seems my GF won’t be joining any PF games anytime soon after that experience.

So I still am giving this a shot, but it is not a big hit in my area...

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Not really sure which would be preferred and wanted to see from folks who have used one or the other which one worked better.

FYI tentative feat progression (human).

1Human - Spellbane
1st - Heavy Armor
3rd - Weapon Focus (Solar Weapon)
5th - Step Up
7th - Adaptive Fighting
9th - Step Up and Strike
11th - Nimble Moves
13th - Penetrating Strike
15th - Improved Resistance
17th - Great Fortitude
19th - Iron Will

I don’t like the dead levels since you lose your reaction with Step Up, until you get the follow up Step Up and Strike.
So debating on picking up W. Spec instead...and picking up say Iron Will a lot earlier...never mind forgot WS is auto at L3...still getting used to SF...!

EDIT: if the setting / campaign is a factor, figure for AP play...

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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

I've recently volunteered to GM a campaign of the Dead Suns AP for a group consisting of one of my best friends and my two brothers. All three of them are excited and eager, but at the moment there's ONLY the three of them. Their characters are:

A Damaya Lashunta Icon Operative, specializing in sniping.

A Companion Android Ace Pilot Envoy, modelled after Han Solo.

An Uplifted Bear Mercenary Soldier, mostly interested in firing big guns and swinging big melee weapons and generally being bad news.

While all these characters are fun, most RPG parties need at least 4 people to be functional, and I'm struggling to find someone in my area whose schedule aligns with the rest of us. The lack of any spellcasters in the group is also concerning.

One of my brothers (the one playing the bear) has recommended I just make a GMPC to fill the spellcaster role and keep them out of the spotlight, that he trusts I'm responsible enough to not let a GMPC overshadow the other party members. I disagree, feeling that GMPCs are a #BADIDEA. The only other option, as I see it, would be adjusting every encounter in the game to accommodate the smaller party and add more serums in the loot to make up for the lack of a mystic to cast beneficial spells.

What should I do? This is my first time GMing Starfinder and I want to impress these guys, but I'm worried that I'll either accidentally TPK them or upstage them.

Well you could use milestone leveling and start the party at level 2. When then AP says the party should be L2, make them L3. Doesn’t make up for action economy...but usually comes close.

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I am running Starfinder for my group. Most of us (including me) are completely new to SF. Now I have been running Traveller/Space Opera/etc... since they came out, and have been GMing PF since beta, so I hope my past experience doesn’t mess me up.

I am also trying to bring my gf into the game. She doesn’t like crunch so I would prefer a relatively simple build. And we only have the
core book at present as we want to see how it flies with our gang before dropping major $$$.

So what would you folks recommend for a social face character. My understanding is fighting isn’t at such a variance with SF vs. PF so that would be secondary. That said the less math (single attack vs. iteratives) would be preferred.

Any help welcome and thanks!

Oh if the campaign setting matters...we’re going with published modules so build for combat frequency based on that (I have no idea what the default for SF is)...

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I was just thinking it would be nice for my gnome fighter to have a cantrip to be a bit different. He won’t be MC so his proficiency won’t increase so attack ones are pretty much out. What cantrips would you recommend for a non caster?

I suppose I should also open this up if someone did take a MC just to get a cantrip but would not follow up with advancing the proficiency.

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Xenocrat wrote:

The cantrip damage maximizer!

1. Produce Flame cantrip
2. Burn It! goblin ancestry feat (half spell level status bonus to fire damage)
3. Rogue Dedication MC feat
4. Basic Trickery MC feat - select whatever, but probably minor magic utility cantrips
5. Sneak Attacker MC feat
6. Advanced Trickery MC feat - select magical trickster

Always some extra fire damage on your Produce Flame, plus sneak attack damage when it qualifies.

At 6th level with 1d6 sneak attack your cantrip is doing 3d4+4+3+1d6 (avg 18, 56% increase over basic cantrip) on a flat footed opponent (and you can flank in melee with Produce Flame), 14.5 without sneak attack (31.8% increase).

Next level you get expert spell proficiency and another 1d4+1 fire damage, average 21.5 (72% increase over basic) on a sneak attack or 18 (28.6%). That's your sweet spot for being ahead of the curve, get those enemies flat foo...

You could also do it as goblin bard getting adopted into human, but that would take until 7th level. Which is, admittedly, dumber and maybe better for this thread.

Does heighten still raise the effective spell level for purposes of the ‘Burn it’ Ancestry?

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Lets say at level 1, and breakthrough levels (weapon specialization comes to mind) of 7th and 15th?

Sustained DPR?
Burst DPR (not counting consumables).*Well spells are allowed for burst purposes, but assume these are self-buffs. And assume only 1 round (3 actions) unless these are hour long durations or longer to buff.

*I would expect by the very nature of the inherent limitations of less hp, less armor, and spell slots a caster nova would be higher, but perhaps that is not the devs intent with 2E. Or is it?

Got any builds?

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MaxAstro wrote:

Yeah, Rangers are absolute DPS machines if they want to be.

Although I do appreciate that there is a fair bit of support for single-shot crossbow builds also; Rangers have arguably the highest reliable single-hit damage in the game and it requires them to use a crossbow or other Reload weapon.

Just with a relatively trivial amount of optimization, a Ranger with a heavy crossbow using Perfect Shot can do 4d12+2 (crossbow ace) + 3d8 (precision) + 3d6 (elemental) = ninety-two damage with a single shot.

Would this not also work with a melee build? With up to 6 attacks?

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Ravingdork wrote:

After reading the P2E playtest blogs, it was my understanding that rarity was going to be an organization tool for GMs to more easily control what enters their game. There wasn't going to be any hard rules or mechanics behind it. Simply a bunch of tags and the GM saying "No rare items without checking with me first" or "Since this is an oriental campaign, all items traditionally considered oriental have a Common rating. More western armor and weapons have an Uncommon rating and require my blessing in this campaign." That sort of thing.

Except that's not what happened. Everywhere I look, I'm seeing hard rules that state I can't get this or that Uncommon item, or rather, that I'm limited to Common items and spells whenever I'm able to make a selection.

Uncommon items are not even made harder to get. They simply can't be got. Period.

This might not be such a big issue ...
What do you guys think? Does it feel suffocating to you too?

I would have adapted a different approach.

Simply state: if a spell/item/ability/feat has a ‘U’ the player and GM should be aware that it has to potential to unbalance the core assumptions of the game and they may wish to consider whether it is allowed. If it has the ‘R’ tag we find that said ability/item/spell can easily and frequently overshadows other players or trivializes challenges / encounters even more so than a ‘U’ ability and one should very carefully consider if this is something they want in a campaign.

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Well for my part once I tried the playtest and had a subpar experience I canceled all my subs except for Adventure Paths.

In exchange I bought the Core PDF and hoped for fixes.

Play-wise I am trying to decipher PF2’s “adventuring day” meta. With many abilities being seeming to have durations up to 1 hr...and then with a 24 hour cooldown, it seems they want a 10 minute to 1 hr dungeon raid? Not sure.

Once we get through a few adventures we’ll have a better feel. Still hopeful.

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HammerJack wrote:
So, a natural 20 increases the level of success by one step. A miss that is a natural 20 becomes a hit. A hit that is a natural 20, bit not 10 over the AC, still becomes a critical hit. With a keen weapon, a hit that is a natural 19 becomes a critical hit.

Oooh! That makes sense, thanks!

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I thought a critical success was 10 over the target.
Yet on p. 584 there is a Keen rune that increases makes a natural 19 a does this interact?

A bit confused and learning 2e here. Thanks!

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

From: Core rulebook P.289 Sorcerer class kit.

"...Weapons dagger, slingshot with 20
sling bullets..."

At first I was like "finally!" and then I realized it wasn't anywhere else in the book.

This is supposed to be a standard sling correct?

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Just started reading the focus section so I probably missed it.
There are a variety of abilities with focus 4, 5, 6 or more.

If the max you can have is 3 (and as far as I can see by the rules, regardless of how many sources of focus, you only have 1 pool so max is 3) how do you use the higher focus abilities?


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Ashcroffte wrote:
Thanks. Still trying to figure out the shorthands. That makes a lot more sense. Still seems like a great cantrip, and the best daze in any edition.

I'll take a saving throw based auto-hit vs. 'make an attack roll' just about any day of the week.

I agree this Daze is far superior especially with the scaling. No reason not to keep using this for most of your career. Well that is until the Save and Die anyway spells come online (if there are any in 2E).

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I have been reading various threads.

Is this what’s going on?
PF1E is going away.
All APs, adventures, modules, Society content will be 2E?
No new 1E content of any kind will be created.

Tyrant’s Grasp is the final PF1 AP.

Or is it something else?

Just trying to get up to date...


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deuxhero wrote:
Deliberate. You're meant to get it either via discipline substitution (either via trait or martial tradition), archetype or feats.

Aha! Did a global search of the PDF and finally found it. Sheesh...unlike the Book of Nine Swords, Dreamscarred never created a matrix of which class gets what.

So you need to be an Empyreal Guardian (Pg. 158, PoW)

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Question: I thought this was a Warder discipline...nope. Then I looked at Stalker and Warlord. Nope. That is all three classes, none of which have access.

Which class from the main book has access to this? Was there errata? Or is it an archetype?

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That's basically it.

I'm still new to Path of War so I may have missed it.

I know there's Stalker, Warder, Warlord, etc...just wondering if there was a monkish one? I was trying to work with a core or unchained one but then realized he'd be limited by the Martial Training feats. Which are not terrible but a full initiator class would be nice to look at to compare :)


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Okay these are choices by another player so its mostly fixed:
Race: Oread
Stats: 20 point buy,
Class: Warpriest of Irori
Level: 7

Sacred weapon: Unarmed.

Single class, no class dipping please.

This is a home game and the GM allowed the player to get ‘agile’ on gloves so she can use her dex to damage.
Also every 4 level (4, 8, 12j we get a bonus feat.

The game is 75% combat and she feels unfortunately that is unable to keep up. We have a melee optimized melee using 3rd party material (path of war and psionics from dreamscarred). His damage output is around 150 DPR. My gf and I play kineticists so we do a good job as far as being skirmishers, though since we are doing a lot of plane travelling, my gf being all-in fire is also running into issues, but thats will be a separate thread.

Personally I am of the ‘power up, not nerf down’ mind so I was looking for some advice to beef the warpriest a bit.
I already have a few ideas but definitely could use more. :). I prefer paizo content but if anyone is familiar with Dreamscarred that’s open.
Also the warpriest is not looking for something complex, if possible. So minimum of variable bonuses.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Kineticists are actually hybrid skirmishers with some utility.
Medium floor and ceiling which makes them pretty fun to play. And of course they keep going and going. You will not be top tier DPS, but you will be respectable.

I would suggest a Earth kineticist. They can throw rocks all day. You do not get a touch attack, but you get some of the best defense (DR/Adamantine) and utility (Earth Glide!) powers available. Viable as an melee (Whip plus Kinetic Form means 20 foot threaten area including adjacent) or pure blasting (metal composite is pretty good).

To increase your blasting I strongly suggest Gathlain. Small race, fey, flight, and hands down one of the premier kineticist racial class bonus: 1/6 per level extra burn reduction when you gather power. This means at level 7 when you get your composite you can use it all day if you use your move action to gather power and empower at the same time. Take the alternate race trait to reduce your stat penalties at expense of movement.

Likewise a double-fire based gathlain kineticist can composite blue-flame and fan of flames every round.

Again is this as good as an optimzed blaster arcane or archer? No. But you are the Energizer bunny.

Simce you are 9th level, assuming a 20 point buy:
Str 8 Dex 16 Con 18 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 10 (gath racial +2 dex, +2 cha included, con penalty dropped with alt race trait)
+2 dex and +2 con (20 dex and 22 con) with 3 burn.

Earth Kineticist
Feats: PBS, Precise, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse*, Improved Init.
Key Talents: Extended Range, Earth Climb (needed for Earth Glide)
Key gear: belt of physical might (dex/con)
Standard attack: Metal Blast, Empowered
Atk: +1 siz +6 bab +3 ele overf +1 pbs +5 dex = +16 vs AC
Dam: 10d6+10 (base) +6 con +6 ele overf +1 pbs x 1.5 = 10d6+23 x 1.5
-1/-1 if > 30 ft.
*can drop if you want to be range only and not acquire kinetic blade/whip.

This leaves a lot open, you can go whip/form for a great area melee build, you can pick up entangling infusion and eventually Wall if you want to be more control focused. Impale, deadly earth(later) for area option. Even opt for a summoned elemental with spark of life.

Burn up to your Elemental Overflow in the morning and reap the bonus all day long.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thanks for the advice I am going to present the options to my friend.

I agree with the thoughts on Precise Shot. Every time I delay it or not take it all, it's come up and bitten me on the behind. There are many many dungeons where it's choke-points and you always have soft cover in the way.

I do think Fan of Flames is underrated. The trick with a cone is to start it at the 5 foot square above the tank that is in front of you.

That way the spread hits the foes and not your ally in front. And instead of making attack rolls the GM makes saves, which is something I always prefer.

Yes 15 foot cone is a bit close. But it is one of the few at-will AoE options that any class has at start. And it's a long wait till Eruption at level 7.

Plus I'm picking Gathlain for the race. The variant without the con penalty. Fly, even clumsy at level 1 is the bomb. It gives the Pyro another escape button. And getting an effective supercharge 5 levels earlier will mean she can throw a composite every round. Which will be great until the devils and fire elementals show up.

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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Magda Luckbender wrote:
ekibus wrote:
So curious what would be the stats for your classic Magda, that's always a struggle for me with a cleric

Directly out of the original Reach Cleric guide.

Here's Magda Luckbender's character sheet, which I've not touched for years, not since she reached 11th level via SLOW PFS advancement. Perhaps I'll bring her out of retirement some time for an 11th level adventure.


Is variant channeling PFS Legal?

Last time I checked. However PFS clerics must pick a deity. So that’s Horus, Ra, Iomedae, or Olheon? I am guessing Dispater is out. None of these deities have both Animal and Plant domains so not sure how the Daze Enlarged Axebeak Cleric build works...but I am a bit fuzzy on all the rules so I am probably missing something.

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Magda Luckbender wrote:

One other note: I once joined a highly optimized group for high level play. I was shocked to learn that they all considered clerics only useful as healbots. They had never seen an effective combat-optimized cleric and didn't know it was possible. They thought all clerics are just for healing.

I ...n mount trick. Paired Opportunists.

* Feather domain gives flight via the Fly spell. The huge flightless axe beak bird takes to the air again, in defiance of Physics! Thank you Spell Sharing.

* Clericzilla buffs also work via Spell Sharing. So...

Please which diety has Animal, Plant domains and rulership in their portfolio for variant channel?

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Well it’s been another year and then some. And the only changes to immunities I am aware off are the ones the game devs took away from player characters (clear spindle I am looking at you) LOL.

So anything for the low defense (melee not a good idea) pyro till level 7 (assuming he gives up blue flame)? Is there a new utility he can spam for support?


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All we know is that this will be Pathfinder in space.
However while the GM may use Starfinder, the PCs may not. We will be Golarian primitives on a spaceship. Androids, etc. are not allowed to players. Know(tech) is banned unless we take the technologist feat. No one can start with Know(tech) ranks at start in any case.

My friend is 100% new to d20/Pathfinder and she wanted a simple ranged fire-focused damage dealer.

Her only experience with fantasy rpgs is WoW. She didn't like vancian spellcasting.

I suggested a Kineticist.

20 point buy, 2 traits, paizo official sources allowed.
3rd level, standard wealth by level.

Looking for some build advice.
So far the only other character is a cleric.
Note that for myself I was thinking of maybe a utility kineticist (aether) since she will be focused on damage. I can go with a Tier 1 (wizard) but prefer the swiss-army knife with 5 blades I can use all day instead of the 300 in a book version. :) But that's for me, I'm looking for help with her build.

So far I've come up with:
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot (may not be needed? since it is vs. touch? Spell Pen instead?)
Infusions: Fan of Flames
Fire blast (basic).

Suggestions and thanks!

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I like Kineticists a great deal so my opinion is biased.

Will you ever be king of damage? No.
Will you be good at damage? Yes.
Will you have a swiss-army knife of tricks you can do all day in the early to mid-levels? Maybe (depends on which elements such as Telekinesis really shine).

Note that this applies to a normal game...if the game is heavy combat then kineticists cannot keep up because of the lack of attack bonuses.

His gear upgrade path was pretty simple. Magic was very hard to get in the game and he was basically below low wealth until he hit level 6.
Light armor first
Belt of Con came after.
Then everything else.

Damage spikes come at L5-free empower and L7-take Expanded Metakinesis (Furious Spell)

My build that I used for Dragon's Demand (L1-L7)

Hobbes, aka 'Mr. Handy' Kineticist (Aether aka TK):

1-PBS, Precise Shot
3-Iron Will
5-Weapon Finesse (never ended up using)
6-(human bonus feat): Extra Wild Talent Whispers (rabbit for the init)
7-Expanded Metakinesis (Furious Spell)*

*A MUST-have.

Vagabond Child (get disable device as class skill with +1)
Indomitable Faith (+1 Will saves)

Talents by level
1-Basic TK, TK Blast, Extended Range
2-TK Finesse (disarm traps/open doors at range)
3-TK Blade (never used)
4-TK Haul (ferry party members over pits, hazardous areas, carry loot, feed guard dogs from far away, drop alchemical items on targets/square, drop heavy stuff on foes-the last is more cosmetic and RP since dropping rocks does not do much damage in pathfinder). This is before anyone gets flight, unless they have racial flight.
5-Spindle (two target attack, limited utility but could not find anything else to fit here)
6-TK Invis. Now he's also a very very good scout.
7-Foe throw. (never got to use). Composite Blast (never used)

Mithral Chain Shirt
Belt of Con +2
Cloak of Resistance +1
Pale Green Ioun Stone, cracked

MW Thieves' Tools
Deck of Cards*
Bag of Marbles*
Bag of 100 copper pieces*

*Used because his primary attack is basically a railgun for flavor.
-"You're life isn't worth 1 copper!"
-"Never bet against the queen of hearts!"

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stringbeanbuddy wrote:

So since I didn't see a thread for this yet...

Okay we just played and had our second wipe.

Name: Chef
Race: Human (Chelaxian)
Class: Unchained Rogue (Improvised Sap Adept)
Alignment: CG
Origin: Kintargo, noble from a minor house. In Kintargo to follow his dreams of being a master of culinary arts. Wields a masterwork chefs spoon in combat.

Adventure: In Hell's Bright Shadow
Location: Hokum's Phantasmagorium (sp?)
Cause of Death: Negative channeled.


Lesay Elven Witch (Slumber)
Lesuule Half-elven Shaman (Heavens)
Ramiel Elven Bard (Court Bard)
Reginald Human Vigilante (Avenger)
Chef Human Rogue (Unchained Sap Adept)

Allowed sourcebooks: Core plus 2 others of player's choice.

My character was already suffering from PTSD after a previous attempt to brave an enemy stronghold ended in abject failure. He was just beginning regain his confidence when fate intervened...

The Actual Death: Upon deciphering a possible cache of former rebel hideout, the party decided to investigate. After disguising the entire party as homeless hoboes trying to find a shelter for the night, the party broke in. Attempts to bypass the front door were met with failure as all other access points were heavily boarded/bricked over or barricaded.

After one close fight with undead apes, the party became aware of sounds from the east. Rested up the party then opened the door and ran into a massive swarm of zombies plus four elite guards armed with bows and blades.

In the first round our Vigilante was dropped by a hold spell of some sort. My rogue dashed to cover the front line and gave him cover, knocking out a guard and taking out a zombie. Meanwhile the bard proceeded to denigrate the foes reducing their accuracy and then dropping a timely grease spell which had four of the zombies flailing and attacking from the ground. Our witch worked on putting the guards to sleep and our shaman provided support and healing.

The fight appeared to be going well after the first round and then the leader who proved to be a cleric made his appearance. He had cast the hold previously and proceeded to negative channel.

Upon advice from the party, my rogue dashed ahead (tumbling) braving AoO's from zombie and guards alike and attempted to take out the boss. Unfortunately fate was again not on the party's side. Chef's attack was a complete miss and then the evil priest responded in kind, only effectively. The evil cleric then also popped a spiritual hammer and then negative channeled several more times, even harming his own side.

My rogue rallied and again attempted to strike the cleric, again failing completely and was then dropped by the second channel. (Basically he rolled 2 1's on attacking, made save against a weak channel and rolled another 1 against a channel that the GM rolled almost max on).

The vigilante did break the hold and took out several of the mooks, sustaining just enough injuries that a channel dropped him as well.

The party did encourage one guard to run. However the party chose foolishly to hold their ground. Even after our biggest healing spells, all that happened was that Chef who was dropped by one channel, was conscious to be taken out by the next one. The bard, heavily wounded himself, upon advice from the rest of the group when we saw how things were doing, wisely withdrew. As for the rest of the party they are all either eaten, captured for sacrifice, or outright killed by the evil priest and his remaining horde of zombies.

After action report, Priest of Asmodeus:

Title: Acolyte of Asmodeus.
Duty Station: Hokum's Phantasmagorium
Subject: After action report.

During the mid-evening hours of the watch just passed. Our patrol became aware of several would-be infidels openly defying the just and righteous rule of Lord Asmodeus, Long May He Reign. While they first appeared to be typical indigent homeless* they utilized and possessed diverse combat abilities both mundane and magical.

However our stout guard proved to be more than a match. After several feeble attempts at ensorcellment to my guard and outright physical attacks, I responded with a modest benediction from Our Lord Asmodeus, long may he reign.

We suffered only one casualty, an officer Morris who as you may recall I had already downgraded his last two fitess reports and was recommending re-assignment to the salt mines. The zombies were of no consequence and I anticipate will be quickly replaced, as we now have fresh blood.

One individual, wielding a kitchen implement (a large soup spoon!) of all things prove how foolish and incompetent these would-be rebels are. If indeed there even are rebels. In any case their numbers have been reduced considerably and I anticipate any further disruption of law and order to subside, if not outright cease.

Your Most Humble and Worshipful Servant of Lord Asmodeus, Long May He Reign.

*Please see my other memo on recommendations on dealing with this civil disobedience, titled 'Blood and Souls for Our Lord Asmodeus: a Modest Proposal'

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This party is definitely optimized on the caster play what you want.

If you are dead set on being a blaster...typical builds focus on traits like Wayang Spellhunter, Magical Lineage, feats like Spell Specialization, Varisian Tattoo, usually in conjunction with Burning Hands for the early days and graduating to Fireball.

If you are flexible with race...Gnome pyro make good fire casters.

Alternatively, a kineticist may be a lot easier to play. No tracking spells per day, all your abilites (barring burn) are available all the time. Aether is chock full of utility. Disable traps from 30+ feet away, all day long. Lift party members across obstacles with TK Haul. Damage is a bit low due to lack of a good composite...but you do eventually get access to force damage, arguably one of the best types in the game...and high tiers you are spamming disintegrate. I played one in Dragon's Demand and he was literally a blast and a half.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also if you are planning to GM with a GMPC...recommend avoiding that unless you are literally making something like a healbot for the party with no healer or say a non-combat taxi driver type.

A Kitsune Enchanter can potentially outshine the party depending on party makeup. Then again ANY GMPC can outshine the party...

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Lanathar wrote:

So I have a player who is playing a kineticist

I have never had one in a game before but note that there are very few magic items that help them. They seem to have limited support as a class. I assume this is because writers don’t understand their rules (they do seem confusing)
Does anyone have any thoughts ?
Same question could be applied to how the other occult classes might fit in as some seem fun

I could easily see where a Kineticist would fit. One of tremendous advantages for that class in this kind of AP is you are always armed and always have your abilities (subject to burn limits). Even when stripped and tossed into a jail have your full arsenal at hand. Or about your daily business and don't want to scream "I'm a locked and loaded adventurer look at my gear!"

Elements? All of the above and also:

Aether. For a city that thrives on trade, having at-will cargo-moving via Telekenetic Haul (100# per level, all day long) would be of immense use.

Regarding treasure, Kineticists are among the more self-sufficient (if a bit below power-wise characters who optimize or take a tier 1 class). Aside from stat-boosting (belts of con, etc.) or the basic core items such as save-boosters, static items that enhance ranged attacks are about the only thing they may want. A kineticist who doesn't have an energy blast is a 3/4 BAB ranged attacker...who never gets the benefit of an enchanted weapon to assist with their attack bonus. And that does hurt once you get to mid-levels and beyond.

Third party items?
An item that adds to available burn per day would be nice (like x/day subtract 1 burn but not below 0 when using a talent).
Or say the equivalent of a metamagic rod. One of the issues with kinetic blast is zero non-lethal options before level 7 (expanded metakinesis and merciful spell). If anything I'd consider a non-lethal substitution feat or item that allows it a bit earlier. Unless he plans on spamming a wild talent and never blasting, in almost every combat until Book 3 that is.

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Evards Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion...

Uh I mean Black Tentacles works fairly well. Any variety of the wall spells.

Conjure a few Air Elementals, have them whirlwind, fly 100 feet per move action (perfect) and drop their passengers as a free action means wide swaths covered each round. Oh and be sure to drop the mooks into the aforementioned walls or tentacles for an extra bit of damage.

If you want higher level...Holy Word / Blasphemy cheese also covers large areas...

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I created a group that had 2 rules:
1-have fun,
2-we rotate GMs.

Some dropped but we have had several run for the first time after being players only for literally decades.

I would take a step back. If you really want to play try online...pathfinder society online collective or just on roll20. There's usually several games with open invites. Everyone needs to recharge.

Good luck whatever you decide!

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Decanter of Endless Water...during a drought or in the middle of the desert.

Tanglefoot bag vs a flying dragon (well so long as it isn't too big.)

Haunt siphon for the Ghostbusters look.

Power Words.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

We are about start this AP and I was looking for some advice on the campaign specific Noble Scion feat.

Our group so far:
Vigilante (str)
Heavens Shaman
Witch (Patron?)
Court Bard

I decided to go with an Unchained rogue, human.
The Mint Avenger. His foci are Profession (Cook), non-lethal combat, and wielding a MW wooden soup spoon (improvised blunt weapon).

We are limited to Core content, plus Ult Equip, traits, alt race traits from ARG, and two other Paizo hard cover sources (example an Unchained, Scout, Sap Master would be 3 sources and is not allowed) and 1 soft cover source (like a People of the X book.)

Not looking for in depth spoilers. In general from a story standpoint does Noble Scion give a tie-in through several AP books? If it makes a difference I have it narrowed down to strong supporters of the big bad (Thrune.) Just have not finalized which family.

I have played and run several APs and IME the campaign feats are very hit or miss...not terribly concerned from an optimization standpoint I just want the character's story with the feat tie-in to be relevant. I certainly can easily RP w/o the feat if needs be. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Party is L7.
We have a shifter, a witch, a divine (lost 1 lvl of cleric) that functions as a flag bearer bard, one other melee (forget the class atm) and myself.

What we have:
flight: witch only
spider climb: (me)
tanglefoot bags: me and maybe one other.
ranged DPR: me only.

Since I am physical blast best to hit (before bardy buffs) is: +13
+1 Point blank
+5 20 dex
+5 bab
+2 elemental overflow.

There are no magic items available or anywhere we can stock up on say potions of fly.

We already know the dragon has some magic I figure he's gonna mage armor/shield and mirror image or so forth.
We do not have dispel magic.
He may have support (flying clerics with deeper darkness) plus other unknowns (mini-bosses?)
We do not have daylight.

I am a bit worried. With buffs a dragon could have AC's in the 30's. And if he just plays smart and strafes with his breath weapon, the majority of the party has limited or no range abilities. The witch fires a bow if hexes are not up.

We do not know the dragon type we are fighting. Though a reluctant minion' tested' us with entangle so assuming that is one of its SLA's. And no freedom of movement either.

One resist energy potion and one resist energy spell.

Suggestions? Meta-gaming wise we are an oversized party of L7 on an elite buy so we could be talking a CR10 before adding minions, environment, etc.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Melkiador wrote:
The aether utility and the "rogue" utility will overlap in some places. That's not to say you shouldn't do it, but it could cut into your party role.

Aha...he went fighter vigilante. Aether it is.

I know he won't be a DPR elite...but as long as he fulfills a good role and is viable in this AP, I'm good.. Just was concerned over not having good social options or working undercover.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Melkiador wrote:
Aether is a little low on damage, but high on utility. It could definitely be handy in the right party for Hell's Rebels. Is your vigilante going more towards the rogue or fighter side of things?

Not known yet. I think roguish was the plan.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So far we have a divine, arcane(full casters), a vigilante, and a bard.

I am considering an aetherkineticist because he was fun in dragon's demand. We are limited to core plus a couple books so I cannot cherry pick across all supplements but it should be enough for most of them.

I am concerned about long term viability.

I figure that skills such as disguise, bluff, etc. would be necessary and also we're probably fighting critters with DR/SR high saves (devils?) down the road.

Has anyone gone through this with an aetherkinetcist and run into problems, esp the latter half? Any tips (no spoilers please). Just want to make sure I am not making a bad choice.

Pure aether also means no high damage composite blasts...if that makes a difference.

Advice, recommendations welcome.

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Well it's been a good run, but my budget is extra tight so I'm humbly requesting that my subs be stopped.

Any orders in progress feel free to fulfill, don't want to gum up the works.


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